From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 23:23:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655F2106564A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:23:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd.user@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7128FC0C for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:23:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yxl31 with SMTP id 31so350655yxl.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.62.193 with SMTP id y41mr661146yhc.4.1301441002097; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (twdp-174-109-142-001.nc.res.rr.com [174.109.142.1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p52sm2133614yhm.75.2011.03.29.16.23.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (zeus [192.168.1.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: FreeBSD.user@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F928E54809 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:23:19 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20110329192319.319dc40f@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20110330000007.99a555cf.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20110329144527.c009ba8b.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <20318_1301430722_4D9241C2_20318_86_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499BD354C76@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> <20110329204501.GH2281@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <0148AA41-E800-477F-94BF-2D27E864053F@adelaide.edu.au> <20110329212348.GI2281@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20110329213936.GA84631@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20110330000007.99a555cf.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.22.1; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAJFBMVEUeH4oAAI3//v8LDHmw s8gyNZ/b3ej7+vn+/v////+PjIc8Plaj/TnQAAACNElEQVQ4jaXUvW/aQBQAcFtKGZLFT+YY 3D1SR9SKoRMncE3IggU4kicGi1JYOgQwyYrgnLlSzhsoNkTuVJEp+ef6ztiAoV3aJ+QPfufn s987S/5fQvoXYPjztmfc514Ks+5JfGUCfrzt4+VabF+jwEV4DGEXN8N4p16sPLxHX07/V3qX yfF5D2H6K4V8j9NkyAphvkjBembD5PDFk3zeTzP1jcksyaV9w+d4ELmUoOp8N2p8uQVyhTAT uawnKNH2mie5lJp48mscUcbJUvg0mR6APwAoye9AMyWozY4gAh0vcxa5FJ4TKCuODESWtfkB 8AEQSupUXNIYH8FSC2w8X3eMBNbbVJpJ7MgECO5yJ9DUEWCYkzNAlsRsgwLQ1GkWqELbkDOh 1bUzoHagYkNh9MXlK/MQoA42gTxz2bhPM2DJedm8MZx6cNfJgEZJ5cmwPp5FZ/Ye8O2qTrFV dgOrHkZRBoheJiGrRquwAhnQ6GeTePPerWVmQelAQ5lwNqtvQd2lcooAV74/zR1BIRS19fy5 ru+B/8ReW9pYKMPjt609zDaitHHTGOO+Zu7gHvsKE7XbeE1QVuJXomIFuZgUJdXQdhpqEELc /e8RLjfi+cQ01yMdWot8UcCVxEWHEkcUrsDGuhaIEoM9kfgAR6jxHcmEV7tNURAl8KTHN9iF McKGFHGO62O62UMpbmlVuogQ7ndL8zXCiLeBy3xpfrqaXS/+AHDG4o8AvhuPeezD/3xL/hy/ Adjlg2odglF2AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Easiest desktop BSD distro X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:23:23 -0000 On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:00:07 +0200 Polytropon articulated: > On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:39:36 -0400, Jerry McAllister > wrote: > > Just a nit here -- I would think of BSD as less cluttered > > rather than simpler. > > The definition of "simple" is individual, it depends on > present knowledge and the ability of thinking (concluding, > deriving, understanding). > > Simple things SIMPLE, complex things POSSIBLE. FreeBSD > utilizes this approach by providing small "units" that > fulfill a certain purpose and that can be combined to > do something more complex, instead of trying to build > a "one size fits all" complex that denies the simplest > choices. Sadly, such things are more common in software > than you want them to be... > > > > > Those that have all the extra built-ins with no thinking required > > tend to be more complicated, not simpler. They just cover it up > > by allowing fewer choices -- as you imply above. > > A good preconfiguration does help. If common tasks are > already well prepared, built-ins can be very helpful. > Instead, you often find a "pile of garbage" in software > that you're forced to pick what you intend to use, always > hoping it will work as intended. If problems occur and > you want to diagnose what's wrong - well, big problem. > As nobody thought of doing so, you don't have the option > to diagnose anything. > > Is THAT simple? I don't think so. > > +----------------------------+ > | | > | An error occured! | > | | > | (Yes) (No) (All) | > | | > +----------------------------+ > > :-) > > The often called attribute "simple" does take the opportunity > to LEARN. As it has been initially mentioned, the OP wants > to learn BSD. So how can anybody learn if there is no way to > do so, because the "simple" concept states: You'll do it THAT > way. You can't do it differently. If it doesn't work, it doesn't > work. Period. Reboot and try again. > > There's also the belief (as in church) that certain systems > or programs are simple because WHEN problems occur, they are > ignored, or solving them is delegated to somebody else who > has the knowledge and experience to do so. For the user, the > mystic "It's so simple, it does anything on its own!" prevails > and gets communicated to others, although it's just wrong. > Aggressive advertising also uses this approach. After all, > I'll repeat my statement: PCs are not simple. Face it, it's > a fact. :-) Your approach to the problem neglects to factor in each individual's own level of expertise and desires. Example: there are millions of cars and drivers in the world. Now, how many of those drivers truly want to do more than drive their vehicle from point A to point B unencumbered by the nuances of their vehicle? Now, if an individual wants to learn to be a class 1 mechanic, that is fine; however, requiring it to just operate a vehicle is absurd. When I was a kid, I use to tear down motors and rebuild them for competition racing. Today, I won't even waste my time changing the oil on my own car. I don't have the time to waste and I can easily afford to have others who want to do that for a living attend to it. -- Jerry ✌ FreeBSD.user@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. 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