From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 15:19:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C654333D882 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:19:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49mX0p2r6Rz48XB for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:19:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.33.9]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MO9r5-1jW34A44cr-00OWGj; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:19:04 +0200 Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:19:03 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Chris Knipe Cc: Aryeh Friedman , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Mailing List Etiquette was freebsd vs. netbsd Message-Id: <20200616171903.7a60d7e4.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <20200616071153.00006f4d@seibercom.net> <20200616075548.000066f1@seibercom.net> <20200616140416.bd7b8bf2.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616142043.7d599458.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200616092901.000002f7@seibercom.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BmrSZXSMI2RiH5R4dNQHk6L0FdPVdNBHzhPlJAXpghrpMwgwe1A iqIuBn4QP2jzfz/FvHPi3oQdRygW9W/DksSTNLu/yskGbwgI1hnE7spnQQhX1fevaA1Ofv5 8WfNWm+qLc8yoVkzAB0xHzZ+NL6ckmz/t00Ssrg2X57P2SI5Bg57TVgJbASGF+/WinGyyb+ DS9Wo7T8VqCHrrkKfRekw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:GW7xMu8jcGg=:K9IG3mY79rYcXKjVCWWbDO 7oj5fSrTwExa3QEQwvtOayiPqZuLiCiIknCp0d+JV3YbqNna7jIJVwqrrnFiXZd+OliTnbaCn 6OiUkV73ZrYFL8iTvitjgUZHCqx4OmPWeQpxHRQylaXuv3CSVY/+6Ud+KNePRedCHSow5oQw7 vSVVIjm52Mv0GUZYo3w3IWkqqdT231dokBouok49xsVmObYgZXc02CUv4qmkE4GjFQGS1KGlU s6KP0Br3hwQ0zB/9rquxb5vtd5ytn3oBrR9hUptyC+AdVtxSPEarJfGO/XY9OVrRd6oyM7WCE 0aZf6cspGMWl/x21xQzzEiCgYzQ2e1Go3FL8tunGP4tYtHP407lcc2G1TQqd4qcwGyApIQ8Lm X8qSihYPccfYlD840SkSlbrXKLNigUAfu83o78POpEaMIHkQ1/ABDwK3CuBQb3TnJyH+D0iWt UWFyw4ZcukO//3SjYD4nnyp0KXjiLXMKpJpEW7v0/Q2Eh/VLUyrobFnug4LYuD4m+xYR+2T6c LwuK1wlBZIE6QJAHhN9iCA7mSa3IZm3JP+zEuX78q+ilmfgQjFM4HwpnM1RJxIoGP7BQk4kPy D8ZaR/LtE9cUzYrhU2GHnNymfVWlxqPg3kLr6MV9I9kjRrPgZJb6vP0XD/tTLbAY66nAIhumR BHNBYWm4k4sJA+RfJ3++o68V+VCEpokzdKZQ3JXGu0dbinT84uD+qKRKmCKr6PDoimmckmeu/ 0yA2hyzj0HG8Y0GnXgjDP5iUKHLyxEfw0lrMTZcoNuUcp4t6xb/sDarPMbl2pc62SxDayR55U 0rnhWt5SgJFngbeeE1frRhRGzSEdMV8HivnvBLWfg+1RVY6wMK2iAD/5QkzASsxoTzWYgkA X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49mX0p2r6Rz48XB X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.13) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.20 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.756]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.8.33.9:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.01)[-0.011]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.57)[0.565]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.13:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.13:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 15:19:07 -0000 On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:32:25 +0200, Chris Knipe wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 4:27 PM Aryeh Friedman > wrote: > > > > It doesn't evolve as fast you *THINK* it does for example our system > > supports over 200 different doctor offices/practices and about 10% still > > use Windows XP at 1024x768 and *REFUSE* to move to anything newer even > > after being told that using anything older than Windows 8 is an automatic > > HIPAA violation (DHS OCR [the office that oversees HIPAA enforcement] has > > said anything that lacks active vendor support is an automatic > > violation). About another 20% use Windows 7 and also refuse to upgrade. > > The console for the monitors (rarely used directly by anyone except for us > > the programmers) is 24x80 via a USB connector. So yes such screen sizes > > are an issue for us. > > > > > > Apples vs. Pears. Even XP, supports HTML email, even XP supports rendering > emails wider than 80 characters. If you mean "Windows XP", it doesn't support anything of that. Programs do, and you usually have to install them before you can use them. > Some of my code is GUI, running on 7", or 14" monitors. Nothing forces my > -code- to be 80 characters wide. Yes, the -rendering- is a different > story, the -code- is not. Absolutely correct. There are people who state that code should end in a specific column to be considered "good code", but the problem again is that this is not a 1:1 relation. Bad code can be more or less than 80 columns, so can good code. Code quality cannot solely be judged by line width. And you can cheat when you use the tab character: From the default 8 colums, set the display to 2 columns and you can write more code. :-) As I mentioned people with limited eyesight and people who are blind, there are those with no spare money to buy new big screens. And even if they did, physical screen size is not the only parameter, as I already explained (resolution and font sizes etc.). There are those who cannot easily move their head, but need to sit near the monitor: Forcing them to painfully more left - right - left - right - left - right so read extremely long lines intead of just moving their eyes to read narrower text is definitely nothing one should perceive as desired. You are probably old enough to know what a newspaper is. Is the regular text arranged in long lines across the paper? No, it is arranged in columns of specific widths. This is done for several reasons. One important one is readability. And mailing lists offer the flexibility to readably fit in many settings (even non-visual ones!). And after all, shouldn't readability one of the primary goals when posting to a mailing list? I mean, there's always an intention: I have a problem, I seek help, therefore I have to explain the problem to readers who will hopefully be able and willing to show me how to solve the problem. Forcing them to go to external resources, to watch ads and web videos, to reveal their identity to web trackers or register to services with their credit card and "Facebook" login to see a little code snippet is... well, I don't think it sounds right... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...