From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Apr 19 20:46:15 2016 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4A0B158A8 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:46:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from c.mail.sonic.net (c.mail.sonic.net [64.142.111.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A49D1015 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:46:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from aurora.physics.berkeley.edu (aurora.physics.berkeley.edu [128.32.117.67]) (authenticated bits=0) by c.mail.sonic.net (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id u3JKa2j0013264 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:36:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <76093.1461096570@critter.freebsd.dk> <1461096962.1232.32.camel@freebsd.org> <76177.1461097581@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Nathan Whitehorn Message-ID: <571696B2.3070100@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 13:36:02 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <76177.1461097581@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sonic-CAuth: UmFuZG9tSVbPkfqMRaz/oc77CRZrE/sV7G4pMgXKcD3f20FSD59FuE2XZlBHCrXM2zpdBJ54fzKhf1QiJwfngUPMdoWqwWSeH02RpIEOoEA= X-Sonic-ID: C;Tl5gVW4G5hGTCPjNyE/n4w== M;PrKtVW4G5hGTCPjNyE/n4w== X-Spam-Flag: No X-Sonic-Spam-Details: 0.0/5.0 by cerberusd X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:46:15 -0000 On 04/19/16 13:26, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > -------- > In message <1461096962.1232.32.camel@freebsd.org>, Ian Lepore writes: > >> Oh yeah, now I remember: Because in freebsd, design is decided by a >> race to commit rather than by discussion. > No, that's not it. > > It is because code talks much louder than words. > This is kind of a silly argument here since the code change is trivial. There is a potentially large impact on the system that merits discussion. Moreover, there is a whole bunch of other code still needs to be written to make this workable in production that depends to some degree on what choices are made here: what does pkg show for these? How do upgrades work? The installer needs modifications to use pkg instead of tar. It's not clear what the migration path to/from a packaged system is, since the packaging is apparently optional. If it would help, I am happy to generate a patch to make the discussion concrete. -Nathan