From owner-freebsd-newbies Thu Jun 18 17:38:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA16324 for freebsd-newbies-outgoing; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16294 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 1998 17:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA24048; Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:38:31 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980619103827.10661@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 10:38:27 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Tim Gerchmez Cc: "Michael P. Sale" , freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Lists, newbies & support (was: Re: Where to get Windows Internet stuff/ More on Windows & BSD) References: <01bd9a26$571e9a20$3c06bccc@708644668> <3.0.5.32.19980618164630.007ebe30@mx.serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980618164630.007ebe30@mx.serv.net>; from Tim Gerchmez on Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:46:30PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 12:30 PM 6/17/98 -0700, Michael P. Sale wrote: > > >Again, I really like the list the way it is and have said so more than once. > >The issue for me is not your managing the list, but the need for another > >list for newbie questions. > On Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 04:46:30PM -0700, Tim Gerchmez wrote: > > I just have one thing to say about this: There *IS* a need for a > 'newbie-questions@freebsd.org' list. Anyone reading this who can add > mailing lists to freebsd.org, please give this some serious thought. > Newbies are generally those who are in their first few weeks or months of > learning BSD. Do the folks in freebsd-questions REALLY want to answer a > question like 'I pressed Ctrl-K in ee and it messed up my text. Is there > any way to get it back?' or 'How do I make my sound card work under > FreeBSD'? Reasonable questions for raw newbies who haven't learned to rtfm > yet, and that deserve either a reply to a direct link to an appropriate > manual section, or an answer. Sure, RTFM is the most important lesson for > a newbie to learn, but at least a little extra niceness might be presented > if answered from a newbies list, rather than "You moron, go read the manual > or shut the f*$&#($ up and quit spamming our list." > I'm going to avoid commenting directly on your proposal, and ask you (or anyone) to formulate it a little differently to make discussion more productive. What you're suggesting here is a mailing list which would contain 1. newbies asking particular types of questions, and 2. experts answering those questions. The technical provision of mailing list itself is a minor point which we can disregard for the time being. The main issue here is what would happen on the list, who would do it, and how. I'll take the newbies side of it as granted, assuming for now that newbies will use it in the way you suggest. The main thing you want from such a list is a supply of experienced support volunteers whose behaviour on the list will suit what you have in mind, which, from what you say, is not quite the behaviour they exhibit in freebsd-questions. This is the part you have to sort out first. Who will support the list? How will they be trained to behave in a suitable manner with respect to newbies? How will they be caused to behave so? Will they know what they're talking about, and how would we know? Will there be enough volunteer helpers? Will they spend enough time monitoring the list to answer questions promptly and give careful answers? Will the novelty wear off for them, and if so what happens then? How will we maintain quality in the advice we are given? How will we cause them to treat us with greater amounts of patience and respect? What will this overall contribute to the FreeBSD community, and whose labour will produce it? The big issue here is, what's in it for the support people? Why would they want to answer the kind of questions that would arise in the manner that your proposal requires? What would make the really good ones prefer to give long answers to a concentrated stream of simple repetitive and uninteresting questions from people who have grown to rely on special attention, when they can get a more interesting mixed bag to answer in freebsd-questions? What do we newbies have to offer them? Where's the what's in it for me factor? I don't mean this to sound negative, though it probably does. It's just to provoke some answers to the questions that need to be answered before any others can be considered, before real planning can lead to a proposal that will be taken seriously. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message