From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 4 04:45:44 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75C331065670; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 04:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8A68FC20; Tue, 4 Mar 2008 04:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from TEDSDSK (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id m244jgwF025173; Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:45:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "Chris" , "Adrian Chadd" Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:46:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1914 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3aaaa3a0802291820j58a24de7wb39ebf2a2653f579@mail.gmail.com> X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]); Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:45:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: FreeBSD bind performance in FreeBSD 7 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 04:45:44 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Chris > Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 6:21 PM > To: Adrian Chadd > Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD bind performance in FreeBSD 7 > > > On 01/03/2008, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > On 01/03/2008, Chris wrote: > > > > > You working round what I just said. A nic should perform equally well > > > as it does in other operating systems just because its > cheaper its not > > > an excuse for buggy performance. There is also other good network > > > cards apart from intel pro 1000. I am talking about stability not > > > performance, I expect a intel pro 1000 to outperform a > realtek however > > > I expect both to be stable in terms of connectivity. I expect a > > > realtek in freebsd to perform as well as a realtek in windows and > > > linux. :) > > > > Patches please! > > > > > > Adrian > > > > > > -- > > Adrian Chadd - adrian@freebsd.org > > > > Ironically the latest server I got last night has a intel pro > 1000 a rarity :) > > I am just giving feedback as when I speak to people in the datacentre > and hosting business the biggest gripe with freebsd is hardware > compatability, as I adore freebsd I ignore this and work round it but > its defenitly reducing take up. > > Of course I know current re issues are getting attention which I am > thankful for, I fully understand the time and effort required to write > drivers patches etc. and have got no critisicms for the people who do > this my complaint is more focused on people claiming there is no > issues its just the hardware. > There aren't issues on hardware that is compatible. You can't run MacOS X on an off-the-shelf PC and nobody complains about it. You can't run Solaris for the Sparc on an Intel box but nobody complains about it. FreeBSD is not Java, it is not "write once, run anywhere" If there is any problem with FreeBSD in this respect is that it supports the poor hardware AT ALL. Of course, we can't do much about that - a code contributor who gets access to CVS can put anything they want into the FreeBSD source, and drivers are a particular problem - since few developers are going to have duplicates of the hardware, only the contributing developer really knows if his driver is solid or not. Arguably it might be better to drop support for poor hardware, then the people who had such hardware would not be tempted to run FreeBSD - thereby having a bad experience with it, and blaming FreeBSD about it. I challenge you to find an example of very high quality hardware that has a driver in FreeBSD that has a lot of problems. Yet, you can find a lot of poor quality hardware that has a FreeBSD driver with a lot of problems. That should tell you something - that the issue for the poor hardware really is "just the hardware" The people complaining about hardware compatibility need to pull their heads out. If they are buying brand new systems they are utter fools if they don't check out in advance what works and what doesen't. It's not like there's a shortage of experienced people on this list who could tell them what to buy. And if after the fact they find out their shiny new PC won't run FreeBSD - then they take it back to the retailer and exchange it for a different model. Why is this so difficult? My beef with the DNS tests was that ISC ran out and bought the hardware FIRST, -then- they started testing. This is directly contrary to every bit of advice ever given in the computer industry for the last 50 years - you select the software FIRST, -then- you buy the hardware that runs it. In short, it said far more about the incompetence of the testers than the shortcomings of the software. The people who have USED systems who are bitching about FreeBSD not being compatible with their stuff need to get over it. OK, so they didn't get a chance to select the hardware, they are using some retired Windows box that won't run the new version of Windows. So they come here and our stuff has a problem with some hardware part. Well, OK fine - how does this hurt them? Their old computer wasn't usable for Windows anymore, now was it? In short, their computer at that point was worthless - and why is it OUR responsibility to make our stuff compatible with their old computer? How does us being incompatible take anything away from them - their computer was scrap anyway. If there's a problem, well they can go to the computer junkyard and exchange their scrap computer for a different old scrap computer that has compatible parts. Ted