From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 15 23:42:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68A08C3; Fri, 15 May 2015 23:42:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D508C1603; Fri, 15 May 2015 23:42:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBD461.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.203.212.97]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4FNhXIg009053; Sat, 16 May 2015 01:43:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t4FNgdvQ053941; Sat, 16 May 2015 01:42:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t4FNgRgq076946; Sat, 16 May 2015 01:42:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201505152342.t4FNgRgq076946@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Baptiste Daroussin cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC] Replace gnu groff in base by heirloom doctools From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 14 May 2015 02:02:11 +0200." <20150514000211.GA9410@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 01:42:26 +0200 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 23:42:47 -0000 Hi Bapt & current@ > I think keeping a fully functionnal roff(7) toolchain part of the > base system is very good on a unix. Yes, Unix has always also been a tool to get jobs done (aka PWB), as well as merely recompile more Unix. Ditto FreeBSD. > From what I could check I cannot find any regression when migrating from gnu > groff to heirloom doctools, if there is a particular area when you think extra > care is needed please share it. > > Heirloom doctools: https://github.com/n-t-roff/heirloom-doctools Regression tests that use public BSD source & data to build more BSD are a good start, but just a start, insufficient to discover all problems. There's non public user data sets to consider. Many users won't read current@, just announce@, so before removal hits a Release, we need a one Release warning, ie "This is the last Release before old functionality goes. Assume lots of user data will Not be compatible with heirloom-doctools & users wont know to start checking their data, until they see an announcement in the next Release. We'll need a copy of same version of existing tools, macros etc, copied out unchanged to a port or meta port so users affected have a lifeboat. User data Will break: (My groff usage frequently broke when groff changed: I use groff for CV, business card, letters, invoices, & personal, with embedded pics, scaled & offset figures, tables, fonts, sizes, & ouput in all of txt ps pdf pcl & html output.) Unfortnately I have'nt time to help test with my data as FreeBSD already eats too much time, shoving bind from src to ports (+planning to dump bind & move on) + ripping majordomo & acroread out of ports, all of which I need & must restore before upgrading servers & workstations. Changes would need maximal warning & minimum disruption please. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix C Sys Eng Consultant Munich http://berklix.com Indent previous with "> ". Reply Below as a play script. Send plain text, Not quoted-printable, HTML, or base64.