From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 13 15:58:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BE262F9C26 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [IPv6:2607:5600:bd::1:1000]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49MfVM4j17z4Cxc for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:58:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 85154F8; Wed, 13 May 2020 11:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 11:58:44 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: mailman 3 on FreeBSD- or mailman replacement? Message-ID: <20200513155844.GA1068@aurora.gregv.net> References: <17e9d3c4-2cab-922c-c3d8-1ebef0073556@kicp.uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <17e9d3c4-2cab-922c-c3d8-1ebef0073556@kicp.uchicago.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49MfVM4j17z4Cxc X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gregv.net has no SPF policy when checking 2607:5600:bd::1:1000) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gregv.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gregv.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.980,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31863, ipnet:2607:5600::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(0.71)[asn: 31863(3.60), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:58:52 -0000 On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 09:48:38AM -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > Dear All, > > I'm sure I'm not the only one who runs mailman on FreeBSD servers. Now > that python 2.7 is about to go, mailman 2 will follow. There is mailman > 3 that is based on python 3. There is, however, no mailman 3 port. I > wonder if someone already asked mailman port maintainer about mailman 3. > I do not like to bother busy person(s) if someone already did. I was typing a reply to this when I saw Matthew's note come in, I can't add anything to what he said so I won't try. ;-) > I kept repeating to people I work for who start using python as > significant part of their work environment: Python is a sneaky snake. > Namely, python paces fast with changing internals version to version > (meaning minor versions here, not only major one). Thus, variety of > modules one starts using have to keep up, but some may lag behind, then > one may get stuck to older version of something, forcing older version > of everything. Not to mention this whole thing being update nightmare. One could say the same thing of virtually any software written in virtually any language. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_rot. It's a real thing. Though to be fair to Python, I also run several sites based on the Django web framework, including some that are fairly complex, utilize a lot of packages for Django, and have significant local development efforts invested. In the Python3 line, I've not yet had a version upgrade that was anything more than a drop-in replacement. The major issue between Python2 and Python3 is they changed the way strings are represented internally, and it turns out that's a fairly important change for a software package that processes email messages all day... > This all leads me to my second question: maybe it is time to replace > mailman with some other maillist suite. If someone already made this > decision, could you share the reasons, and your new choice: I said this in the other thread the Matthew mentioned, but if I had to switch off of Mailman to something else, in my mind Sympa looks like the best option currently available, based on my own personal criteria (which I won't get into here). -- Greg Veldman freebsd@gregv.net