From owner-freebsd-java Tue Dec 11 2:49:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from gnuppy.monkey.org (cx739861-a.dt1.sdca.home.com [24.5.164.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A29237B405 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from billh by gnuppy.monkey.org with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16DkT8-0002Aw-00; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:49:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:49:02 -0800 To: Nate Williams Cc: absinthe@pobox.com, Bill Huey , shanon loveridge , freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: jdk1.3.1p5 Message-ID: <20011211104902.GA8293@gnuppy> References: <20011210001702.10731.qmail@web14303.mail.yahoo.com> <20011210024138.GA3148@gnuppy> <20011209223635.A1152@absinthe> <15380.15272.167683.46148@caddis.yogotech.com> <20011210003200.C1152@absinthe> <15380.65513.794203.276229@caddis.yogotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15380.65513.794203.276229@caddis.yogotech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.24i From: Bill Huey Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 11:33:13AM -0700, Nate Williams wrote: > > My understanding is that native threads were not dependent on kernel > > threads; that is, native threads are there to, among other things, > > reduce I/O overhead. I understand as much to know that to go SMP inside > > of the Java VM requires kernel threads. > > Again, the internal green threads implementations uses the same tricks > as do native threads to reduce I/O overhead. With the current technical direction, yes, that's true. But when I think of native threading I'm thinking about the entire platform that come with it, proper JNI, HotSpot, etc... So it's a umbrella for all those facilities. > > But again, the way I understand it is that by talking to a VM built > > around pthreads, that some performance gains can be had. So I guess > > that (until SMPng becomes a reality) what I'm asking is whether a native > > VM build exists around pthreads. > > It's getting close, but as I stated above, for now it doesn't help much > other than make it easier to port things such as HotSpot which use the > PTHREADS API, unlike the JVM which allows you to use the older green > threads technology. But the thing here is that having it fully working in the first place allows for some pipelining of work from various server side clients to be upwardly workable with kernelized threading is functioning. > Also, JDK1.4 no longer has the green threads support, so we must use > the native threads API. Which make native threading even more important to get it going now so that bugs can be hammered out when a 1.4 attempt gets going so that it hits the public in the quickest and most mature form possible. The whole point in getting native threading going was to make the FreeBSD JVM *big time* in spite of the failure to get a commercial venture to back this (Sun, BSDi before I came along, etc...). Then this kind "green threads is perfectly fine" juvenile attitude will properly die and be replaced by a "Our JVM is better than yours. yes, really, *PLEASE BITE ME*" and not this weak willed tone that folks are currently using in the BSD community. Now suck that down. ;-) Hehehe bill To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message