From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jul 11 10: 2:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.webmonster.de (datasink.webmonster.de [194.162.162.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A8A137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:02:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karsten@rohrbach.de) Received: (qmail 55892 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2001 17:02:47 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:02:47 +0200 From: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" To: Terry Lambert Cc: Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: getting rid of sysinstall - Was: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010711190247.D52923@mail.webmonster.de> Mail-Followup-To: "Karsten W. Rohrbach" , Terry Lambert , Bill Moran , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20010706144935.A61843@xor.obsecurity.org> <3B4650D0.97F10B83@bellatlantic.net> <20010707002340.B16071@widomaker.com> <20010707004731V.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <3B49F8D5.2C9BFA73@mindspring.com> <3B4A0124.26025FB5@iowna.com> <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B4A1423.E8E365E@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:29:23PM -0700 X-Arbitrary-Number-Of-The-Day: 42 X-URL: http://www.webmonster.de/ X-Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my employer Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Terry Lambert(tlambert2@mindspring.com)@2001.07.09 13:29:23 +0000: [...] > There are too many steps. >=20 > X11 is a distribution set, instead of a package. >=20 > Etc. (I could go on forever). > =2E..then let's wrap up a concept of a interpreter language driven installer. redhat does it in python since years, so could we... some rough and spontaneuos ideas: - stripped down python interpreter runs as init - class framework for 'plugin modules' such as postinst config,... - basic 'service' classes for abstraction of the ui, binary execution and fileio (for config files) - every class has properties which can be preloaded (=3Dunattended install functionality from 'recorded' install session or manually generated setup) - ability to run in 'expert' command line mode (ab)using interactive python, text ui, x gui/tk mode - after installing the base dist, we could import batteries included python libs from the userland for configuration/upgrade management and so on, perhaps stuff configuration metadata into xml and re-write it to the appropriate (maybe new/different) format -- oops, i said the x-word :-> - instrumentation to do 'the right thing' _or_ to be very talkative by message/dialog emission properties, severity levels -- we would need some kind of policy for that because of the multiple user interfaces - remote install dialog ui using ethernet as transport (yay!) would be a nice idea - making the base system consist of packages would raise the need for package db flagging of non-removable/mandatory pkgs - xf86 must become a package, yes ;-) IMHO it's a pain in the ass to upgrade xf86 without side effects when it was installed as tarball - with that step we also could package sendmail and bind out of the base system ;-) hint-hint - package signature verification would also be a nice thing to have, especially with signature fetching over the net so the scheme would boil down to something like this: [gui multiplexer]<--+-->[cli] ^ +-->[text ui] [cdboot/loader] | +-->[xf86 gui] | | +-->[remote ui] v | +-->[unattended] [kernel]->[python]->[rc-loader] | | | v v [messaging/core]<------+-->[config writers] ^ +-->[exec subsystem] | | ^ v | | [sig verifier]<->[dist source handling] | v ^ | [fdisk/disklabel/...] [cd mount]<---------+ | [hd mount]<---------+ +-->[upgrade subsys] [nfs mount]<---------+ +-->[package installer] [ftp/http fetcher]<---------+ =09 this in no way perfect, just some idea -- feel free to flame me if i missed the point, but don't rip out my intestines ;-) /k > -- Terry >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --=20 > "The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom." --W. Blake KR433/KR11-RIPE -- WebMonster Community Founder -- nGENn GmbH Senior Techie http://www.webmonster.de/ -- ftp://ftp.webmonster.de/ -- http://www.ngenn.n= et/ karsten&rohrbach.de -- alpha&ngenn.net -- alpha&scene.org -- catch@spam.de GnuPG 0x2964BF46 2001-03-15 42F9 9FFF 50D4 2F38 DBEE DF22 3340 4F4E 2964 B= F46 Please do not remove my address from To: and Cc: fields in mailing lists. 1= 0x --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TIa3M0BPTilkv0YRAsD2AKChZwWwXUQvrIq1HC5QVt0AllQJzwCgvslq ckDLJMXVlMJwkkon5wcoQow= =bcv8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fOHHtNG4YXGJ0yqR-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message