From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 11 6:34:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99E4637B401 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from williams.mc.vanderbilt.edu (williams.mc.Vanderbilt.Edu [160.129.208.222]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9EF5D43E3B for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 06:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drew-list-freebsd-chat@rain3s.net) Received: (qmail 25217 invoked from network); 11 Sep 2002 13:35:15 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO williams.mc.vanderbilt.edu) (127.0.0.1) by williams.mc.vanderbilt.edu with SMTP; 11 Sep 2002 13:35:15 -0000 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 08:35:12 -0500 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? Message-ID: <20020911133512.GE21879@drew.rain3s.net> References: <20020909215202.78267872.yid@softhome.net> <20020910094316.H62741-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> <20020910152310.5e6e2964.yid@softhome.net> <20020910215545.GI4470@drew.rain3s.net> <20020911071845.43665d57.yid@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020911071845.43665d57.yid@softhome.net> From: Drew Raines Mail-Followup-To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.62+ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joshua Lee wrote: > > Drew Raines wrote: > > > > The writer to the Hebrews wrote, ``without faith it is > > impossible to please Him'' (11:6). Not ``pleasing'' God is > > most definitely sin, so whatever you do out of faith is > > sin. > > > > Romans 3:23 all over again. We all live our lives > > deserving eternal punishment. This is the reason we > > worship Christ, our savior. > > I'm Jewish, so quotations from the NT aren't particularly > convincing to me. You'll have to convince me with reason, > which I doubt can be mustered to defend this idea of > eternal-torture-by-god. It would seem to me that ``eternal-torture-by-God,'' God's justice and righteousness, is the exact theme of the OT; hence the need for the NT. Fortunately, it's not my job to convince you. Jesus said to his disciples, ``the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives'' (Jn 14:26). Sorry it's from the NT, but without that, I have nothing. My life is meaningless apart from what Christ did. As Paul (a former Jew[1]) put it, ``I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord'' (Phil 3:8). He told the Corinthians, ``if Christ had not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. . . If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied'' (1 Cor 15:14,19). -Drew [1] ``I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom He foreknew'' (Rom 11:1,2). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message