From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Feb 15 08:19:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7079D2529DD for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:19:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic313-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic313-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48KNTS6wflz3wrZ for ; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:19:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: a6vq0eEVM1mpgQonEhWVa50w3d2sttGG2QOiWYpnY6KVXpMQcBNWGdI.uZfs2zu Up7h7xj84EzME7fm2smGKKGoYNPu7XsvmIPW.z8bCFUsawzfPPkidm9gRw.wRWAO1brUBZXIWkIs XcARt0oa.7fdxZ1o8myXqpybxsTjremT7M1IJzsNm1GJdZyTPXeBLtiCLoH9SplU9wXg7kyoKo7F cfP8UE22ycLPzcNm5Cuao1YChBytkLjESjrCh7JITz8ICp2gNIPO.LG6WdveYct.yyEfjvRl9mws 2eHuK8ZDAKRoOwb_vR2BkzQGmYCk8XS22VCDPlJVbkpX_75sL2ADX_hRPTpgNbZf3u0RXyA3Dr1I b8AwlKx_5y6dJpMUqcg7KOWlrGe6vEBk2eBgX0RCk1gsvi1Z7N2lpVmAuhXRiP2NPt_qqA_UFRRD k_1YBkwM5xWygTyacXbYJ0VirT1L6vXKYX7s4ppk5sibYTcDsrgfYekPZJhCaNlrx4iiPLn6nRqY d7avqIxXURMJuJqlQajaWL7YKamAnByvzu8l4SgKIldHSCK0oi2o7lsA5LxmtcLvqGvnIVvAkVSO PrmtrSDTY5YhtOt6GVZM2GHFKhCtDjJyZMc_YNF9kRr4UO6dV5ZIAUgHWjQFY1sDtkcX9AJl1rBE zNGGLLG_2h3vTaXc7SVTh7gTwtebIvSRcBvSn0JHrrRd49hqg4cvdk81.Wj7j7kmqHb4zZFxUIex I_EVdbFYmqYaBrEcEYaauyyqiMOX_BbX6L5hkpb4SkKTrvr5wKYGu1BCYTM2UcGDhNMl56JLJYsu m56hIBUEQfUNi_eKcCWGGsl76O6HrWqKlCnLvz.OvNSXGBPVi73W.tRgJyo2aZb5Bs3Cy51mpNCi xoVQO5iQoDIRqF5BtPo.V00BWcTr_2hWLAmaxT04VDzAE0NrTmN1I5s1PhWeOi.u0d7kUQtBofc6 KhN9tAlxpz_X3foMRnqrDLwapmK9Glmq0DDkLnPTqSUe6yS2H6mj_xMq8zVz5VA5LgxgoKf3zere eiwi7jueGBdaZtJPIPrik30K2AyX1J5fqjy1SabtQ8ejnjw_31HxdM_NZzxIs62x9Bh2mBDU7jWK 1MA9jGDnk.x_RLhbCU83z3RqJNCQN4Z.UZHlobN1j0.6elCmh5Rf7.z2_BqO5cfwrbWxMBpNnqtU wNk8_IjzreI3ZZ.b70ppq1DXuKAeWOJuI.LfejOMPYopqmU8HxQ6HLj.RGFNnSj5yZZ96QKVtkln 5y4KV60mlQUohKrz7SGLY5g9ynzXYQZHICL5perh7uTgHd8djWPSynzw3d46CGPWzelyFDrTda_Q 0f6vXCu_vYmvp36KnaGc2zx0vXemxBQ5ABU4pyW420SATxCglYwFZxj4BaFGx0BIz2vjTCrOSkEd PYmaK4Mmncp9LUCgA Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:19:54 +0000 Received: by smtp402.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9a03ea4c7c5d689364804cfa2ea4af4f; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 09:19:50 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200215091950.578d1836@moonstudio> In-Reply-To: <20200215071036.GH1482@admin.sibptus.ru> References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200215071036.GH1482@admin.sibptus.ru> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48KNTS6wflz3wrZ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.55)[-0.550,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.74)[-0.738,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[189.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.98), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.16), asn: 34010(1.71), country: GB(-0.07)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[189.179.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:19:58 -0000 On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:10:36 +0700, Victor Sudakov wrote: >Yes, I've seen Linux systems (Ubuntu) broken after an upgrade. Not >completely unbootable (God forbid) but mostly unable to update >something because of missing or incorrect dependencies, and >complaining about this. > >But I've also seen my share of FreeBSD systems with similar >dependencies problems. However, in FreeBSD, with its separation of the >world and ports/packages, you can always "pkg delete -af" and install >everything from scratch from ports/packages, and you will still have a >functional base system to deal with problems. And if "freebsd-update" >screws something up, you can hopefully rollback the update with >beadm/bectl. In a worst case scenario you could run a Linux from an USB stick or a DVD etc., first chroot and then downgrade, for Arch Linux e.g. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_Archive#How_to_restore_all_packages_to_a_specific_date Usually a chroot shouldn't be required, it more likely is possible to rollback without a chroot and without editing repository and mirror configs. It's also possible to downgrade an Ubuntu install. However, due to Ubuntu's policy an Ubuntu install unlikely gets broken, assuming the user understands Ubuntu's policy. Official repositories are split into Main, Restricted, Universe and Multiverse. While not all are supported by the Ubuntu developers, upgrading and downgrading within a release does not cause dependency inconsistencies. Within an Ubuntu release SONAMEs do not change. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories#Main Ubuntu installs usually get broken, if unskilled users add third party repositories. Ubuntu tries to workaround this and other issues by https://snapcraft.io/ . FWIW Arch Linux does not support snaps. Everybody is allowed to post the Arch Linux logo and to claim whatever she likes to claim. Ubuntu already posted the Arch Linux logo, when by default Arch kernel configs "audit" and "apparmor" were disabled, IOW when the basic infrastructure for snaps was missing. To put it in a nutshell, the problem with Linux is diversity, less that it is missing something. Not everything provided for Linux is useful, but everything important is well documented, it's just not easy to decide what policies and manuals to read and after that to decide what path to take.