From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 3 14:46:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA082834; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 14:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (unknown [IPv6:2602:d1:b4d6:e600:4261:86ff:fef6:aa2a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A5357B3; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 14:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s93ElS9V015628; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 07:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id s93ElNjh015624; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net ([2602:d1:b4d6:e600:4261:86ff:fef6:aa2a]) (UDNSMS authenticated user chrish) by ultimatedns.net with HTTP; Fri, 3 Oct 2014 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20141003083051.GA52332@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <20141003083051.GA52332@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Removal of legacy X.Org (aka non-WITH_NEW_XORG) From: "Chris H" To: ports@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org User-Agent: UDNSMS/2.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 14:46:56 -0000 > Hi, > > As you may know, the ports tree currently provides two versions of the > X.Org server and related pieces of software: > 1. xserver 1.7, Mesa 7.6 and libdrm 2.4.17 > 2. xserver 1.12, Mesa 9.1 and libdrm 2.4.52 > > We are about to remove the older set. The primary reason is the > maintenance cost. The Graphics team is small and it's a nightmare to > test changes. The consequence is infrequent updates to those packages > and, of course, way more work each time we decide to jump to a later > version. All this time spent on keeping the legacy stack in a working > state isn't invested on improving the current one and today's hardware > support. > > The recent update to Cairo is a good example of this unsustainable > situation: we tested what we could with the time we had and we sent a > "Call for testers" on freebsd-x11@ and freebsd-current@ mailing-lists as > well as asking for help on several Quarterly Status Reports. The benefit > (if not the requirement) of the update and the lack of failure reports > were instrumental in the final decision. Unfortunately, many users of > the old X.Org server on Intel GPUs are now having crashes with any Gtk+ > applications or the X.Org server itself. This time, we won't revert > anything or spend more time on trying to fix the old stack. > > Now, what does it change for the community? What are the benefits of > this solution? > > 1. No more headache with WITH_NEW_XORG, alternate pkg(8) repository, > mismatching ABI versions between xf86-input-* and xserver. > 2. More frequent and independant updates (ie. no need to update the > whole stack in one pass). > 3. KDE and, in the near future, GNOME 3 available as packages in the > main repository and on install medias. > > Great, but what does it break? > > The only regression is for users of Intel GPUs and FreeBSD 8.x and > 9.0. Those versions of FreeBSD lack the required kernel driver and > therefore xf86-video-intel won't work (the last UMS-aware version > doesn't work with xserver 1.12). Users can still use xf86-video-vesa if > they can't/don't want to update their FreeBSD workstation. To install > xf86-video-vesa, run: > pkg install xf86-video-vesa > or > portmaster x11-drivers/xf86-video-vesa > > There won't be any regression for owners of Radeon GPUs because > xf86-video-ati 6.14.6 (the last one with UMS support, which fortunately > works with xserver 1.12) is provided as a separate port. To install this > UMS driver: > pkg install xf86-video-ati-ums > or > portmaster x11-drivers/xf86-video-ati-ums > > In the longer term, we suggest you update to FreeBSD 10.x (10.1-RELEASE > is around the corner). For example, you can find instructions to update > to 10.0-RELEASE here: > https://www.freebsd.org/releases/10.0R/installation.html > > Note that there's a know regression with syscons and kernel video > drivers: you can't switch back to a console once an X.Org session is > started. A new console driver called vt(4) fixes this issue while > bringing nice features. It's available in FreeBSD 9.3-RELEASE and > 10.1-RELEASE but isn't enabled by default. To enable it, put the > following line in your /boot/loader.conf: > kern.vty=vt Ugh. We've just spent the last 4 mos. tooling up for a migration of all our server farms from RELENG_8 --> RELENG 9. It would have only taken 1 mos. but for pkg(8) debacle. Now, if I understand correctly. The current release schedule has effectively become: RELENG_8.4: June 30, 2015 ===> October 8, 2014 RELENG_9: December 31, 2016 ===> October 8, 2014 :( FWIW I'm looking forward to the NEW_XORG. But testing 11-CURRENT indicates vt(4) isn't ready for prime time. Which makes it difficult to justify it's requirement in RELENG. Sincerely, disappointed. > > Note official packages reflecting this sitation will start building on > Wednesday 8th of October and hit your mirrors as soon as possible for both > quarterly branch and regular head. > > regards, > Bapt on behalf on the X11 team > >