From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jun 15 10:20:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2F732EDA4 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49lnR86G53z4Nxw for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:20:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.24.244]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mnqfc-1j90YX3tzm-00pL2d; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:20:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:20:47 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Norman Gray" Cc: Kurt Hackenberg , Subject: Re: Flowed text Message-Id: <20200615122047.a559d124.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <00225a04-237d-9051-9aea-12c192106a20@anatoli.ws> <373EDB20-C750-42E2-A41B-EA61F6E49807@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200609120136.00005b3c@seibercom.net> <2393a1e0-b073-950a-78be-9f57d8e9934b@anatoli.ws> <20200610063555.00003707@seibercom.net> <82F57D0D-E0EC-49F7-824E-20A296C9F549@kicp.uchicago.edu> <250b853a-b436-0e99-b05c-9abd6b6019ef@panix.com> <7018FA7A-32A6-4567-AA5D-1A90FF5FFF6C@kreme.com> <20200613154409.GA89618@neutralgood.org> <082AF774-7886-4E56-8482-768A7FE6E5EF@kreme.com> <20200614100602.7f5c8092@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:nJazFgZ/JXZIaYpeZoq5G8M7kMmok6U+Xr6KpRip0+6QGbhJiv9 TUSMTnQObAtScpK/h2uVu1EjWxZUYEV/pgeK0pjV9MIpiHBfiH/9JOXKW5d80LPCklYVTvZ ngPvBOGDmFF14tDf54S4OSjmgPBnW5RySKpRskbaDthSSUt97gUDGa4pxeoRaqg+L4o7DUs bP8UerftX6oXcOi5sY+5w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:GBNyCxMFaoo=:RV//6uGQDVSQIejTu2gqac 5Bus0zFIWJXPhQUJ/7hPoEVi1EmeaGudVeqSAJGwQ+eqJp8MmGS7y9AyM1eumxfl2oL/Y4TkI 8mbhPMNoLimO6woia4JJ7j8inK6uElrfcnj5w8mkM9tcr6mnyGX3u53z00ErCAGIMDnaP5w0Z m/Idl0t9b/enCHsC+dOA8jCTBNBquowcntwVYCOPAXUvcC9WXv5egPmCUrSCI9seIDmiDh73d 0NepnX0/ppJShbFGOCFqDkKWFxajDqVa2SHRSk/UoYebz4gfqB89EdsIMQm3GxTxczFt08xVJ 0Mzft22CQ9G4lbMMnjZp2NrsUFherql1ldPIuHxI21jdFFQtylY4wAoL9Q1f1LWTMi92RBHfi 4vKYZmfJ2YEoVXInpBVciBTb+hjsOZO47OFfq1iU04XT6Dpi5s/gBuOIDCtJHhZEll8wazA3M kg5kkt4NDrlV56HZA6hVBu42LPn5Sa2T/bfxG/I8EiMY0sGV16gPsVaXyHyCZy1V68yvlXsLv HEQQVpR/Ao3aRbuX/2qU2ATdsaEW3DF5F8f7oW5KG0ASqtPtN49lErV7UzKR9m1pgkcL3vujq YDo1A8gmeoM021pxyCmviSp6K39DUdXssiyjtZTZ0Yl1PBDon4JuNHBuqm0FybFg9M5R561fL YTtPGB7Mh6XAwyCcxWSdchyDlZY41wsfRxePdMasp98+3R/VRmDdKcMsZoVHSeaOnG2Y84y/R 5evqrcf7C2awh9CeQZacx8xwrZBGPJwLcRtfb6JB8nOnDOekPuM+8GbUAlg22QPRonHmLtr+1 /13sY9hSx6fQFQy971eHTrYjGxZtbNvnRC/61Zawlpq7fZFaUVM1CSmy66XVhUE3kD3iVnJ X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49lnR86G53z4Nxw X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.74) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.34 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.24.244:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.42)[0.423]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.24)[0.238]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.28)[0.281]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[217.72.192.74:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[217.72.192.74:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:20:54 -0000 On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:46:20 +0100, Norman Gray wrote: > The email client I use does set format=3Dflowed on outgoing text/plain=20 > emails, but when I cc myself, that comes back to me via an Exchange=20 > server, which (at some point in the message's labyrinthine passage=20 > through the server) strips or replaces the content-type header, losing=20 > the format=3Dflowed. This seems straightforwardly an error, but when I=20 > reported it to local mail admins, they were sympathetic, but also=20 > realistic about how far down their priority list fixing it, or reporting= =20 > it upstream, would be. A few years ago, I visited a company office where they used a combination of "Outlook" and "Exchange" and even had their own "mail admins" to support this construct. Strangely, every message sent through this construct became mangled in a very unpleasant way: the time was changed, the timezone was changed, and all message content was collapsed into one line (spaces and tabs became a space, newlines became a space). So messages always looked like this: Yes. Original Message From: Bob To: Joe = CC: Management Subject Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: A= W: AW: Re: Re: Re: Meeting on Tuesday Date Mon, 15 Jun 2018 00:20:10 +0000 = Should wwe arrange the meeting at 14:00 or at 15:00? What do you think? Ton= y suggested we talk also talk about -Foo -Bar -Baz Please verify with Karen= ! Original Message From: Joe To: Bob CC= : Management Subject AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: AW: = Re: Re: Re: Meeting on Tuesday Date Mon, 15 Jun 2018 00:14:31 +0000 Samanth= a from accounting dept. wants to know if she is supposed to attend the meet= ing Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFe / Kind regards, Joe Q. Sixpack M.B.A. -- ABC= DE Stupid Title Office Director 2nd Class The Example Company GmbH & Co. KG= Businessing since 1995 Excellence office Certified ISO-9660 Boring corpora= te signature Instead of fixing the problem - obviously something was wrong with the configuration of their "mailing system", they invented a workaround that wasn't exactly good, but worked so well that everyone in the office had adapted it: They printed (!) the messages, took colored markers to highlight the relevant names and content, and then wrote their reply, leading to a new "message line" prefixed with their answer (where the reply looked normal in their composer window, but was added infront of the "message line" for all recipients). After a few weeks, nobody found that their solution, while working, was _not_ what you were supposed to do in such a case, i. e., talk to the "mail admins" and make them do their job. On every desk, there were binders and stacks of printed and colored emails... I bet they still praise their "paperless office" today. :-) To summarize: Sometimes, the right thing to do is to complain, and demand the responsible parties to do their fscking job, than to ignore it and learn to live with broken workarounds. --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...