From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jan 21 03:56:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB776106566C for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:56:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from koggybsd@comcast.net) Received: from qmta07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B77C8FC08 for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:56:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.72]) by qmta07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Q3Sm1i0031ZXKqc573j41C; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:43:04 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.5] ([68.43.224.227]) by omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Q3j31i02V4uzdYs3h3j4bj; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:43:04 +0000 From: gore To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:43:01 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 References: <4F180C83.9090100@my.gd> <4F19279F.6060303@a1poweruser.com> In-Reply-To: <4F19279F.6060303@a1poweruser.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201201202243.01861.koggybsd@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Horrible installer X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:56:21 -0000 I've been sort of keeping track of this particular thread, because it interested me, and after reading through, I'd like to share my personal opinions. Now, before I go any further, let me just state here and now; This is my personal opinion, so, please, don't take this in a bad way, or in the wrong way; I'm a incredibly loyal FreeBSD and PC-BSD user, and have loved FreeBSD since 4.0 when I first got to use it. Now, with that said, here's what I think: FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was a big deal, IS a big deal to ME personally, because, well, I LOVE FreeBSD. Basically, I've tried out NetBSD ONCE, and I didn't think it was anything special to warrent me using it instead of FreeBSD. If I ever need to use an OS on my toaster, I'll download a newer release; until then, I'll stick with FreeBSD and PC-BSD 9And let be honest here, lol, PC-BSD is FreeBSD with a pretty paint job, and some very VERY nice custom Applications to make installation, software management, and so on, easier to do. Basically it's FreeBSD but made specifically for the Desktop user). OpenBSD.... I just don't care. That guy Theo rubbed me the wrong way a long time ago, when I saw him reply to a FreeBSD security advisory, insulting one of the FreeBSD security team members and basically saying they didn't know what they were talking about and that they ere full of it, and so on. I thought that was incredibly rude, and insulting. The FreeBSD Security Team member replied with nothing more than the OpenBSD Security notification in question, proving to Theo that yes, he was in fact not lying, and it was infact from his OWN OS! I couldn't Believe ow mean Theo was; He said that basically no such advisory existed. When they replied with the advisory, he didn't even respond. My guess is, it's hard to type while trying to swallow your pride AND fit your tail between your legs at the same time. I also don't think much, or care, about taking BSD, shutting everything off, and calling it the most secure thing ever. (Yes, I'm over simplifying that, I know they've done a lot of work, but really, who doesn't do code audits now? And yea, I'm trying to make that have a little humour to it as well). Anyway, FreeBSD 9.0, I saw the Email from FreeBSD-Announce, and I got really excited. I'd been waiting for a LONG time for RELEASE come out. I was VERY freaking tempted to grab the RC3, but no, I waited. Somehow lol. But as soon as I saw it was released, and FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE was now available, I jumped on Opera, and grabbed it. I burned it, and had it installed within an hour of reading the email that it was out. I will admit; I'm totally biased towards FreeBSD, as it's one of my favorite OSs period. I also LOVE how awesome the Core Team are; Grey Lehey wrote "The Complete FreeBSD" which, I got with the "BSD PowerPak" I bought which had 4.0 + 6CD Toolkit, and I still read that third edition to this day! It's great! I also bought the newer 4th Edition when it came out. (Having Marshal Kirk McKusick do the forward made me happy, he's one of my personal heros. I also got to speak with him recently and I was almost speechless.... I LOVE that guy, and he's so funny! The DVD 25 years of Bereley Unix is something I'd recommend you ALL buy. I also loved how nice he was. Marshal Kirk McKusick is one of the nicest, friendliest people I've have the pleasure of talking to). Anyway, back on topic; FreeBSD 9.0's new installer "bsdinstall" is FINE! I KNOW it isn't perfect, OK? I got that. But how many of you HONESTLY would rather keep using sysinstall? Seriously? If you answered yes, then why not just download 8.2 or before?It's got sysinstall as the installer, and you can be happy with it. I don't understand why so much of this is such a big issue, but, I'm only a co-sys admin of my home Network, with my Wife as the other BOFH (I'm the Bastard Operator, She's the Bitch :)) (by the way, no, I don't call woman that in that manner, it's rude, but we both love BOFH so it was an inside joke we enjoy). So I can't speak for those of you on here that are actually running huge data centers, or corporate stuff, so please understand, I'm not trying to say you don't have an actual issue. You guys are on a WAY higher level than I am. I'm a little guy compared to a lot of you. That's why I said I was only giving my opinion, and meant no harm by it, but again, why not just use 8.x or something? I'm not being sarcastic or anything either, I really am asking why not jut go to 8.2 which I also Loved? I personally like the way the new installer works. I DO think it would be nice if the Partition section was more like sysinstall, where you could simply hit "a" and it would give you a payout of partitions for the system to use, because I did like that, and now it does just / and Swap and boot by default, but the point is, that's not a huge deal really. I try to use BSD on everything I can really. It's probably the most stable OS out there. In fact, the ONLY stuff I'm not running BSD on, are, well, there's the newest Computer I own, which my Mom got for me for Christmas in 2009, which came preinstalled with Windows 7, and I Partitioned the drive in half so Slackware ran on one, and Windows 7 on the other. I needed one Windows box at least for a few games, and, of course, stupid school stuff where they force you to use some windows crap. The other machine I don't use BSD on, is my FTP Server, which is running Slackware 12.0. I thought about upgrading it, but really, it works just fine for my needs, and it's fully patched, and so there is no need really. When I do upgrade my Server though, I'm probably gonna be installing FreeBSD on it. FreeBSD, Slackware, and Debian are my first thoughts when I think of setting up an FTP Server, so that's just me. Anyway, I don't want you to have to read a whole book of text here, but I personally am wnjoying FreeBSD9.0-RELEASE. I like it, and I'm using it on on of my Desktops, and my Laptop, as my other machine I use a lot, is running PC-BSD. (9.0 of that just came out too which I grabbed as soon as I saw it was out). Anyway, again, this was just my opinion, so please don't think I'm making any assumptions about the situations, systems, or tasks that the rest of you have to do; I am not even TRYING to pretend I know what you're dealing with, I'm not a jerk like that heh. Basically, I just wanted to point out that there's people like me, who not only love FreeBSD 9.0-REEASE, but, also, didn't have any real issues with the installer. As I said; I know it isn't perfect, and it does need some work I think, but you have to rmember; This is a NEW installer; There wasn't a version of FreeBSD before this that used it, so, now that everyone has been talking about their issues with it, I'm pretty darn sure that the people who write the thing are keeping track, and will fix it. I mean seriously guys; Does anyone here think that the FreeBSD team won't try and fix it up so that we all like it? I know deep down, after meeting the members of the core team I've met, that they do care quite a bit about us; The Users, of FreeBSD. With that said, I think one thing that should be done, is to make a list of any issues any of you had with the installer. Make this PRODUCTIVE by making a list of some type, of what the issues REALLY are, and make them known. Then, the people who are in charge of bsdinstall, can look them over, and, actually make change. Anyway, sorry about the length again, but I just wanted to say something, and ended up saying a lot... Lol, I'm longer winded than Hurricane Katrina apparently ;) LOL :) -Allen -- BSD user