From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 22 22:26:07 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D9C1065670; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178608FC13; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547956D41B; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:26:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2D251844B4; Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:26:05 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Sergey Vinogradov References: <20090921112657.GW95398@hoeg.nl> <20090922135435.36a3d40e@lazybytes.org> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:26:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20090922135435.36a3d40e@lazybytes.org> (Sergey Vinogradov's message of "Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:54:35 +0400") Message-ID: <864oqu1urm.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Ed Schouten , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: tmux(1) in base X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:26:07 -0000 Sergey Vinogradov writes: > Despite the zsh(1) has appropriate license, it needs autotools and > iconv (both GPL AFAIK), so it's hard to include in the base system. > The things in the base system I always wondered about are sendmail > and bind9. These are pretty heavy, and definitely are not used in every > single installation. Maybe someday I'll see sendmail and bind9 in ports > instead of base system. And yes, I know about WITHOUT_BIND=3D and > WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=3D :) 1) Even in sh mode, zsh is not sufficiently POSIX-compliant to replace our /bin/sh (and I say this as the maintainer of the zsh port) 2) Sendmail is used at least twice a day + once a week + once a month on every single FreeBSD installation in the world except those where the admin has intentionally installed and configured another MTA. 3) Both BIND and Sendmail have strong historical ties to BSD, and a lot of users would be very surprised to find them missing from the next release. 4) The FreeBSD project has strong ties to and good working relationships with the people and organizations who write and maintain BIND and Sendmail, ensuring that they are well integrated into our codebase, that any concerns we should have about them are given serious consideration, that we always receive ample advance notification of any know problems, etc. 5) Both BIND and Sendmail are mature, robust, highly regarded, actively maintained pieces of software with strong developer and user communities. Unbound, DMA, or whatever it is you would replace them with can only dream of enjoying a fraction of the respect that BIND and Sendmail command in the industry. 6) This discussion comes up with depressing regularity. The arguments on both sides are always the same, as is the conclusion: you can have BIND and Sendmail when you pry them out of Beastie's cold, dead fingers. Now go write some code. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no