From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 11 21:23:11 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28335106567A for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:23:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael.copeland@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f18.google.com (mail-qy0-f18.google.com [209.85.221.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9AC8FC17 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:23:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michael.copeland@gmail.com) Received: by qyk11 with SMTP id 11so1502086qyk.19 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:23:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7wARmP5PTUgvm+CfyJiHSy/g8e/AHn3FBNr9fsHbSa8=; b=rD30Au6HxNNVlrTkfxI4kbFMFJ8lOrZi3WqB9XmNfRQvD67iFYlyoob6GEN5PT7JsY 0mKyCT5JXlvVQ/Yk8XP8HNTnr+EfYY9T5XZiQQfwQo3/INw9j+fCWmhC74HVJ6Nw7mh7 vWw9pgXg8QemPYU0JtmCcJ5Qs7ikGdnDj87bQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ee0qPmGBpVHaZmpX0G6EpS/cJDEysvGUAFzyFkq/ReSJMPzMIzJ0B50SkWQn3QyTI2 tRCXWLf90v4Pj/hzVAS8+FswDHyMuU9yEzwwtgcEd5KIlceG7oOG+TYgXwFYWlzGtG8f yXz066ziGOXt2nYb7/K8byvO8MK3SiQuqW1lc= Received: by 10.214.114.4 with SMTP id m4mr4289839qac.349.1229030584957; Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.104? (adsl-074-245-053-043.sip.jax.bellsouth.net [74.245.53.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm1019925ywf.22.2008.12.11.13.23.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:23:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <494184B7.2030104@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:23:03 -0500 From: michael User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081125) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tyson Boellstorff References: <20081207093713.O5433@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <20081211203121.L1372@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <20081211195504.GA15968@kokopelli.hydra> <200812111447.15299.perlcat@alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <200812111447.15299.perlcat@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:23:11 -0000 Tyson Boellstorff wrote: > On Thursday 11 December 2008 13:55:04 Chad Perrin wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 08:32:20PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> >>>> Please stop trolling. >>>> >>> having different opinion than yours isn't trolling. >>> and i WILL NOT stop writing my opinions just because your is different. >>> >> It's not just that you have a different opinion than me -- it's that >> every time someone brings up anything related to migration from some >> other OS to FreeBSD, you basically tell them to go away. This is >> unproductive, leads to endless argument on the mailing list, and >> generally makes everyone unhappy. That sounds suspiciously like trolling >> to me. >> > > In Wojciech's defense, he is technically skilled, has found use for FreeBSD, > and spends his time on the mailing list answering questions. I enjoy his > opinions, and if FreeBSD ever needed a BOFH, he'd be my first choice. Not to > say that he knows everything about everything -- that's my Ex's job. > > The answers he gives are somewhat abrupt and definitely coloured by his > experiences and ego -- if you want your hand held, he is not your guy. > However, he has valid points, and isn't trolling. It's just who he is. It's a > cultural thing, and his input is valuable enough that I don't filter him out > or stir him up. If you recall, on the mailing list, there are cautions not to > waste people's time with FAQ questions due to the response they may get, and > from what I've seen over time, the people on the list have been kind and gone > well beyond the 'RTFM' answer I'd have given most inquiries if it was up to > me. > > I guess what I'm saying is that Wojciech acts well within the expected > guidelines on the list, and if you don't like his answers, you certainly are > not obligated to respond. I don't respond to 99% of his responses, but I am > seeing a dogpile coming on, and I'm not so sure that's a good idea. > > If we want FreeBSD to grow to where vendors pick up obscure and not-so-obscure > devices and support it more than it is now, we need publicity. If we need > publicity, we need marketing types. If we need marketing types, we need to > pay them, and we need to put up with them, and even be nice to them. I'm not > so sure I want to pay that price. > > As it stands right now, it's a meritocracy -- those with the skills share > their work with others with the skills. It is bound together by the respect > we have for each other, and there's not much name-calling going on. The > product is technically sound, has better hardware support than other *ixes (I > run OpenBSD on servers -- but not on the laptop beause of the lack of laptop > support), and gets the job done well. The documentation is simply phenomenal. > I'm good with that. I'm also more than pleased that there are barriers to > entry based upon a basic unix knowledge level -- I've had one too many > encounters with the unwashed to want to go that direction. Linux developers > spend more time catering to that crowd, and IMO, it suffers for it as much as > it benefits from it. > > If someone wants to commercialize FreeBSD, they are welcome to do so within > the terms of the license -- the more the merrier. But asking the list to > hand-hold is a bit much -- we're adults here with real jobs that we should be > doing. Getting an opinion from a person with skills isn't such a bad thing, > and I think the list benefits from his knowledge. To be completely honest, > I'd rather get the right information from a person who cannot relate than no > answer at all from people who are more friendly. > I agree. nothing wrong with his posts. the mailing list was never described as a warm, social gather. you want answers, and you get them here. i for one would rather him be abrupt and short. no need for the pomp and circumstance. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >