Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 14:12:23 -0700 From: Doug Hardie <bc979@lafn.org> To: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-ID: <A10C097A-E9FD-418D-883B-761D9195D566@mail.sermon-archive.info> In-Reply-To: <20200516215243.ec4df83e108b8699291f9de6@sohara.org> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <CAFYkXjmZi1-MB6W0HsMx9gHek7Xg5heoSKKWkNTnw74dxRTwAw@mail.gmail.com> <20200218091959.b0220ac75bcfbbced91a5708@sohara.org> <CAFYkXjmWBUDyV3XKL1qwt=g0AUgDttDfOB6euKqJMAmOs-1Prw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPyFy2D4Dyq6P6sZZ70R1cG%2BNoVcv808sbQeSWTzTrNELnH8ew@mail.gmail.com> <CAFYkXjk=rpp_8nD=xGirghCLouRAsC-N%2BJJppMKDQN0aGKnKDw@mail.gmail.com> <D2835D98-3303-4DE7-A98D-82035535E18B@yuripv.me> <CAEJNuHycWihEj0_61bW2WBBU3vWmqQHKWKd3DqCXtLAD%2BWof5A@mail.gmail.com> <355B9AC5-84F8-48A3-ABD2-14B43AECC9D7@kreme.com> <20200516204553.a317afe4.freebsd@edvax.de> <2C311DED-DF68-4BEB-B322-4468CB5AB31E@mail.sermon-archive.info> <20200516215243.ec4df83e108b8699291f9de6@sohara.org>
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> On 16 May 2020, at 13:52, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> wrote: >=20 > On Sat, 16 May 2020 13:12:37 -0700 > Doug Hardie <bc979@lafn.org> wrote: >=20 >> I started using FreeBSD somewhere between 2.5 and 2.7 and I remember = the >> confusion of those "labels". Yes the information is there, but it's = not >=20 > I started with 1.1 and watched those labels acquire their = meaning > during a period when every user built from sources and upgraded with = make > world. The terms seemed natural in that context and everyone using = FreeBSD > seemed to understand them, then as the OS matured and the user base = widened > it became clear that they were also confusing to some and the mailing = lists > grew noisy on the subject. >=20 >> obvious to the new user. I was running production systems and the = name >> "stable" seemed like the right one. However, the descriptions made = me >> think that perhaps that was not the right choice. I finally settled = on >> "release" but it was quite a difficult decision. >=20 > Before the release patches many people did run production = systems > on stable because the alternative was no changes until the next = release. >=20 >> It might be "obvious" to those who >> know, but it's not for others. >=20 > Not so much obvious as natural from some points of > view, particularly the OS developer point of view, and indeed not = natural > from others which I think came as a surprise to some developers. >=20 > These days I think most users should be running -release, > installing packages, using freebsd-update and not going anywhere near > sources. Originally, I had to compile from sources as one of the production = systems needed quotas. There was no way to use the generic kernel. It = was a pain to upgrade a production server. I went to a single = development machine which contained the source and built the production = kernel. However, you still had to run mergemaster on each system which = was never fast since you had to figure out the differences between many = config files to make sure everything would continue to run. The need for quotas went away and now I only run -release with = freebsd-update for all but a couple ports which don't seem to have = packages. I keep the full source on one development system so that I = can reference it when I encounter something in my code that doesn't make = sense. Often I encounter obtuse errorm messages, and seeing what causes = them makes it much easier to correct the problem. -- Doug
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