From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun May 14 19:46:42 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA11820 for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 14 May 1995 19:46:42 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA11811 for ; Sun, 14 May 1995 19:46:40 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa29147; 15 May 95 3:28 GMT-60:00 Received: from bagpuss.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa25830; 15 May 95 3:28 GMT-60:00 Received: (karl@localhost) by bagpuss.demon.co.uk (99.9/99.9) id DAA04028; Mon, 15 May 1995 03:30:38 +0100 Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 03:30:38 +0100 From: Karl Strickland Message-Id: <199505150230.DAA04028@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: zappa bios still broke? Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Any word on weather or not this is still brain damaged in the same way the plato bios is? Thanks From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon May 15 00:21:49 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id AAA20443 for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 15 May 1995 00:21:49 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id AAA20436 for ; Mon, 15 May 1995 00:21:46 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA05358; Mon, 15 May 1995 00:21:32 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199505150721.AAA05358@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: zappa bios still broke? To: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk (Karl Strickland) Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 00:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199505150230.DAA04028@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> from "Karl Strickland" at May 15, 95 03:30:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1697 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Any word on weather or not this is still brain damaged in the same > way the plato bios is? I looked at an Intel Zappa board and did my pre-buy visiual of the board before I decide to spend by atypical 20 to 40 hours of product testing before offering to sell them. Basically it failed for these reasons: 1) Use of AMI WinBIOS. The worst BIOS I have ever used in my life, except perhaps Mr. BIOS and early Pheonix stuff. But buy and far it this is the worst thing AMI has ever done :-(. 2) The left off the some of the I/O stuff (forget now if it was the floppy controller or the serial ports, but what ever it would require using an ISA legacy card to replace the functionality.) Since my currently qualified product has 2 EIDE ports, 2 16550 ports, and EPP/ECP parallel port, and the floppy on it this was a draw back. 3) Support for P54C-75 and P54C-90 claimed, no support for P54C-100 :-(. 4) 20nS cache rams soldered to the board (probably the reason it can't run a 100Mhz CPU. 5) Uses the infamous Intel VRM circuit that if the current carrying diode fails it takes your CPU chip with it. 6) Requires use of tin plated SIMMS, you are not to use gold connector SIMMS in this board due to the SIMM sockets Intel has choosen to be there standard. 7) My cost on the board would be $60.00 more than I pay for the ASUS boards I sell now and have already qualified. My word again on this Intel OEM Products Division board know as Zappa is ``DON'T'', buy the ASUS board. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed May 17 18:15:13 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA19013 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 1995 18:15:13 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA19005 for ; Wed, 17 May 1995 18:15:11 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa27795; 18 May 95 1:38 GMT-60:00 Received: from bagpuss.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa05946; 18 May 95 1:38 GMT-60:00 Received: (karl@localhost) by bagpuss.demon.co.uk (99.9/99.9) id BAA03026; Thu, 18 May 1995 01:40:09 +0100 From: Karl Strickland Message-Id: <199505180040.BAA03026@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> Subject: bad memory.. To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 01:40:07 +0100 (BST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 840 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk system: 486/33 isa, aha1542, 16mb added another 16mb and it went crazy with programs dumping core, and kernel traps all over the place. so i suspect the memory is bad (this machine has run with 20Mb previously, and has bounce buffers configured etc).. On FreeBSD 1.x, the memory test doesnt complain. I remember reading the BIOS's memory test is crap. What should I use to test memory? (currently the machine has 4x4Mb 30 pin 9-chip simms, giving 16Mb. the new 16Mb is 4x4Mb 30 pin 3-chip simms. that shouldnt cause any problems right?) Thanks! -- ------------------------------------------+----------------------------------- Mailed using ELM on FreeBSD | Karl Strickland PGP 2.3a Public Key Available. | Internet: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk | From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed May 17 18:40:55 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id SAA20449 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 1995 18:40:55 -0700 Received: from gndrsh.aac.dev.com (gndrsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id SAA20442 for ; Wed, 17 May 1995 18:40:52 -0700 Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by gndrsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA13066; Wed, 17 May 1995 18:40:22 -0700 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199505180140.SAA13066@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: bad memory.. To: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk (Karl Strickland) Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 18:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199505180040.BAA03026@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> from "Karl Strickland" at May 18, 95 01:40:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1365 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > system: 486/33 isa, aha1542, 16mb > > added another 16mb and it went crazy with programs dumping core, and > kernel traps all over the place. so i suspect the memory is bad (this > machine has run with 20Mb previously, and has bounce buffers configured > etc).. > Try adding 1 wait state to the memory setup in the BIOS if you can. I found that my ECS EISA/VLB board would run on ``fastest'' with 4 4MB-60nS simms, but add 4 more and I had to slow it down to ``faster''. This is the same as adding 1 wait state to main memory cycle times. > On FreeBSD 1.x, the memory test doesnt complain. I remember reading > the BIOS's memory test is crap. What should I use to test memory? FreeBSD is one heck of a memory tester, but it does not point to the location of the failure. You *should* get an NMI for a parity error, but gross memory failure (ie 2 bit or more) is often missed by this type of logic. > (currently the machine has 4x4Mb 30 pin 9-chip simms, giving 16Mb. > the new 16Mb is 4x4Mb 30 pin 3-chip simms. that shouldnt cause > any problems right?) No, that should not cause a problem. Are the memory simms the same speed, and at least 70nS or faster? What motherboard is this? -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Custom computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed May 17 19:12:36 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id TAA21000 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 1995 19:12:36 -0700 Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk (disperse.demon.co.uk [158.152.1.77]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA20992 for ; Wed, 17 May 1995 19:12:32 -0700 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa29836; 18 May 95 2:55 GMT-60:00 Received: from bagpuss.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa17511; 18 May 95 2:54 GMT-60:00 Received: (karl@localhost) by bagpuss.demon.co.uk (99.9/99.9) id CAA03882; Thu, 18 May 1995 02:55:58 +0100 From: Karl Strickland Message-Id: <199505180155.CAA03882@bagpuss.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: bad memory.. To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 02:55:56 +0100 (BST) Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199505180140.SAA13066@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at May 17, 95 06:40:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1654 Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > system: 486/33 isa, aha1542, 16mb > > > > added another 16mb and it went crazy with programs dumping core, and > > kernel traps all over the place. so i suspect the memory is bad (this > > machine has run with 20Mb previously, and has bounce buffers configured > > etc).. > > > > Try adding 1 wait state to the memory setup in the BIOS if you can. I > found that my ECS EISA/VLB board would run on ``fastest'' with 4 4MB-60nS > simms, but add 4 more and I had to slow it down to ``faster''. This > is the same as adding 1 wait state to main memory cycle times. I'll try this! > > On FreeBSD 1.x, the memory test doesnt complain. I remember reading > > the BIOS's memory test is crap. What should I use to test memory? > > FreeBSD is one heck of a memory tester, but it does not point to the > location of the failure. You *should* get an NMI for a parity error, > but gross memory failure (ie 2 bit or more) is often missed by this > type of logic. > > > (currently the machine has 4x4Mb 30 pin 9-chip simms, giving 16Mb. > > the new 16Mb is 4x4Mb 30 pin 3-chip simms. that shouldnt cause > > any problems right?) > > No, that should not cause a problem. Are the memory simms the same > speed, and at least 70nS or faster? What motherboard is this? all 70ns simms.. ill find out the name of the board, uses the opti chipset tho.. Thanks! -- ------------------------------------------+----------------------------------- Mailed using ELM on FreeBSD | Karl Strickland PGP 2.3a Public Key Available. | Internet: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk | From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed May 17 20:59:11 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id UAA24011 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 1995 20:59:11 -0700 Received: from spice.tea.org (spice.tea.org [204.182.11.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id UAA24005 for ; Wed, 17 May 1995 20:59:10 -0700 Received: by spice.tea.org (8.6.9/8.6.12) id UAA00484; Wed, 17 May 1995 20:59:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 20:59:22 -0700 From: Christopher Seiwald Message-Id: <199505180359.UAA00484@spice.tea.org> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: bad memory.. Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > system: 486/33 isa, aha1542, 16mb > > > > added another 16mb and it went crazy with programs dumping core, and > > kernel traps all over the place. so i suspect the memory is bad (this > > machine has run with 20Mb previously, and has bounce buffers configured > > etc).. > > Two comments: 1) You might try replacing the first 16mb with the 2nd, rather than augmenting it, to see if your problem is due to the amount of memory or due to the new memory. If it fails with just the new memory, it could be because you were running at the system's margin and the new memory is just a tad slower than the old. If it fails only with both, it could be because you were running at the system's margin and the additional loading on the (memory bus) drivers slowed them down. People tend to doctor the voodoo BIOS parameters to get their system as fast as possible, only to find themselves beyond the ratings of their components (CPU, bus, memory) when they fully load the system. 2) If you think program faults and panics are a drag: when my system was overclocked it worked fine except: when compiling the kernel, the cpp would complain about mangled # directives. Go figure. My suspicion is that the CPU wasn't executing some sequences of instructions properly, but it is hard to pinpoint. Christopher From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed May 17 23:08:47 1995 Return-Path: hardware-owner Received: (from majordom@localhost) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) id XAA25745 for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 17 May 1995 23:08:47 -0700 Received: from spice.tea.org (spice.tea.org [204.182.11.244]) by freefall.cdrom.com (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id XAA25738 for ; Wed, 17 May 1995 23:08:46 -0700 Received: by spice.tea.org (8.6.9/8.6.12) id XAA01457; Wed, 17 May 1995 23:08:59 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 23:08:59 -0700 From: Christopher Seiwald Message-Id: <199505180608.XAA01457@spice.tea.org> To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: EIDE + SCSI = bad combination or just bad luck? Sender: hardware-owner@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Setup: ASUS PVI 4SP3 motherboard with on-board (E)IDE NCR 53C810 PCI SCSI adaptor card One IDE disk One SCSI disk FreeBSD 2.0 The problem: If the IDE and SCSI disks are active at the same time, the NCR SCSI driver goes into conniptions. Sometimes asserts() in the NCR code fail, sometimes the system hangs with one or both disk's activity light on, sometimes I get errors reported by the NCR code. It doesn't appear to be interrupts: using the BIOS config, I turned off the interrupt for the PCI slot (as verified by the NCR driver which reported "interruptless mode: reduced performance"). Still things hung. So I changed the PCI memory address map from c0000000 to c0010000 - still no dice. I also tried the 2.0-950412-SNAP, and it failed all just the same. The ugly complications: The motherboard has in its BIOS the NCR BIOS as well, in order to support the optional NCR PCI SCSI board called the "PCI-SC200". The BIOS recognises my NCR card as one of its own and initializes it. Unfortunately, there is no way to find out what that NCR BIOS is doing, since it has no configuration utility of its own (as far as I can tell). I am fairly sure my NCR 53C810 is functionally the same as the PCI-SC200: the board has just the chip and traces, so there isn't really alot of room for variety of implementation. My guess is: Somehow the IDE driver is stomping on the NCR driver's memory, but I don't know how. Anyone with any clues? Anyone have this combination working? Failing that, anybody wanna buy an 850Mb EIDE drive? :-( Christopher