From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 03:23:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA00475
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 03:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA00452
for <hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 03:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2)
id AAA13860; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:22:40 -1000
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:22:40 -1000
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Message-Id: <199606301022.AAA13860@pegasus.com>
In-Reply-To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
"Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server" (Jun 29, 2:38pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
}
} Why *not* add an Ethernet to the home system? It's a cheap and simple way
} to get an efficient high-speed connection into your machine. The key is
} to stop thinking of Ethernet as an expensive LAN, and start thinking of it
} as a fast alternative to RS232. A 10BaseT Ethernet card and a crossover
} cable is a cheap and easy way to connect *even* *just* *one* high-speed
} device to your PC. Would you add a serial port for such a purpose? If
} not, then why not add an Ethernet port instead? It's a lot better and not
} much more expensive.
}
Or use coax and you can hook many boxes together without the added
cost of a hub. `Combo' ethernet cards are the way to go for small
networks, they accept twisted-pair or coax.
Richard
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 08:14:25 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19299
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19294
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:13:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>
cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <199606301022.AAA13860@pegasus.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606301103.A9890-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I wrote:
> ...stop thinking of Ethernet as an expensive LAN, and start thinking of it
> as a fast alternative to RS232. ...It's a lot better and not
> much more expensive.
I should mention that, at one point, the original inventors of Ethernet
seem to have had just this sort of role in mind. They hoped to make
Ethernet the new RS232, a cheap and universal fast way of interconnecting
computer equipment. Arguably it was a terrible mistake to raise the
speed from 3Mb/s (the original experimental design) to 10Mb/s (the DIX
standard), because it put Ethernet beyond easy reach of then-current chip
technologies, and delayed the advent of really cheap Ethernet hardware by
perhaps a decade.
Henry Spencer
henry@zoo.toronto.edu
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 08:32:17 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA20971
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20964
for <hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uaPxC-000wufC; Sun, 30 Jun 96 10:06 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836148602; p 29 Jun 96 21:54:17 PST
Date: p 29 Jun 96 21:54:17 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9605308361.AA836148602@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu
Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART.
That's the TI 15570, I believe. It has a 64-byte buffer, as does one of the
new Exar/Startech parts.
Some of the other solutions use "intelligent" UARTs from Cirrus Logic. The
big flaw in the Cirrus Logic parts, however, is that the firmware that runs
the chips' internal processors can not be programmed or expanded upon, so
your CPU must perform all functions that aren't already built in. And
that's a shame. I'd love to see a microcode expansion port (possibly as a
bond-out option) on these.
--Brett
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 08:35:20 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA21155
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21149
for <hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:35:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uaQ0J-000wxWC; Sun, 30 Jun 96 10:09 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836148784; p 29 Jun 96 22:02:04 PST
Date: p 29 Jun 96 22:02:04 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9605308361.AA836148784@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: Bernard Klatt- Admin <admin@ftcnet.com>, hardware@FreeBSD.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000?
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news
> feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000.
[...]
> I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial
> card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program.
I think what you might need is the ultrafast news server I whipped up on
top of a real time kernel. Trouble is, I need to write a real time kernel
that doesn't have runtime royalties before I can distribute it.
--Brett
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 08:35:30 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA21170
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21165
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uaQ0N-000wxzC; Sun, 30 Jun 96 10:09 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836148791; p 29 Jun 96 22:10:46 PST
Date: p 29 Jun 96 22:10:46 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9605308361.AA836148791@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> This is actually the weakest point in the sio driver. Polling 16
> ports wastes a lot of time when only a few of them are active, and I
> think processing multiple ports per interrupt is relatively rare even
> when many of them are active.
It's not rare when it MATTERS -- that is, when the FIFOs are filling up.
The rest of the time, it merely overcomes a severe deficiency of the PC
architecture: the interrupts are edge-triggered, which means that you can't
tell whether multiple devices need service unless every one has its own
interrupt.
--Brett
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 08:59:13 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23157
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from charlotte.spiders.com (charlotte.spiders.com [199.224.7.188])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23150;
Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from gwh@localhost) by charlotte.spiders.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA03596; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:02:01 -0400
Message-Id: <199606301602.MAA03596@charlotte.spiders.com>
From: gwh@spiders.com (Gene W Homicki)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:02:00 -0400
In-Reply-To: bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com's message as of Jun 30, 2:53
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com, Gary Palmer <gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>,
Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
+---
| On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Gary Palmer wrote:
|
| Figuring the price of cheap ethernet cards to be under $40US, you should
| be able (today) to connect 3 machines for something like $200US including
| the cost of wire and rj-45 connecters. For a network that small, you can
| get away with not having a hub.
+---
I just got a "PalmHub" 8 port UTP + 1 BNC for < $100.
Combione that with a few "Addtron" NE2000 clones from someplace like
DatacommWarehouse for $19/each and you can have a small network for
under $200. With FreeBSD I have gotten ~1MBps with the $20 cards,
which is close to the max you can get on 10Mb (note B vs b) ethernet.
And there are not serial line protocl problems.
--Gene
--
Gene W. Homicki gwh@spiders.com
Objective Consulting, Inc. http://www.spiders.com/
Internet Presence Design voice: +1 914.353.3511
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 10:09:39 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28601
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:09:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28596
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:09:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA11248; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:08:43 -0400
Message-Id: <199606301708.NAA11248@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: henry@zoo.toronto.edu, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:12:46 +0930.
<199606290742.RAA20768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:08:30 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199606290742.RAA20768@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>you write:
>Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying:
>>
>> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART.
>
>Compatible with the 16550? Appropriately clocked, the 16550 will run at
>1.5Mbps.
>
>> Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions
>> cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at
>> home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that
>
>This is total bollocks. An NE2000 clone ethernet card and cables will cost
>you about $30 all up.
As I said other places, I never said it would cost $1000 for the etherneting.
Just the card costs at least $50.
>> costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything
>> with a UART on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So,
>> how does $400 sound to you compared to the ethernet solution,
>> considering that the $400 non-ethernet solution compare to an
>> ethernet one.
>
>But it doesn't. You have zero flexibility, a driver with no source, and
>from what you're saying, a UART-style interface with the associated high
>interrupt and CPU overheads.
I'm not sure about the status of the source. Hopefully BSDI will have them
include the source. I wouldn't be surprised, but I have no information on
that.
>> You can get up to 512 Kbaud/second with it, it has 3
>> types of compression and header compression (Stac, Ascend and
>> Microsoft) and can change from two BRI channels down to one and vice
>> versa as the other channel is used for voice fax, analog modem,
>> phone, etc. Pretty good in my opinion.
>
>Thanks, but I'd go for an Ascend P50 or something similar any day.
>Particularly since this card is unlikely to pass the Austel tests
>anytime soon.
If you have unlimited funds, and don't mind wasting money for equal performance
and features, go for it. I'd personally like to save $700+.
Jacob
>--
>]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
>]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
>]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
>
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 10:18:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28891
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28886
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA11281; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:17:12 -0400
Message-Id: <199606301717.NAA11281@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: henry@zoo.toronto.edu, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 17:14:29 +0930.
<199606290744.RAA20801@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:17:09 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199606290744.RAA20801@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>you write:
>Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying:
>
>> Also, why add an ethernet to the home system, when really you
>> usually just want a point to point connection from your house to the
>> ISP, a route from your home computer to the ISP and a route from the
>> ISP to any default request, and don't have any need for a local LAN?
>
>What's the difference between an ethernet card and a high-speed serial
>card other than the name and the shape of the connectors?
>(Aside from performance, of course)
the cost, I haven't seen a solution based on ethernet for under $1000.
The card costs $300-$400 or so. Comparable performance and features.
Maybe a missed a $400 complete ethernet solution. If so, please let me
know.
I'll have an ethernet too, so forget those costs (so I can NFS and backup
over the ethernet, and use some Sun software like Centerline C) over X,
Jacob
>
>--
>]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
>]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
>]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jacob M. Parnas |
| IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Ctr. |
| Internet: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 10:24:31 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29189
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29183
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA11303; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:23:40 -0400
Message-Id: <199606301723.NAA11303@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Thomas J Balfe <tbalfe@tioga.com>
cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: Micropolis
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:35:21 -0000.
<Pine.BSF.3.91.960611143009.9970G-100000@falcon.tioga.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 13:23:38 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.BSF.3.91.960611143009.9970G-100000@falcon.tioga.com>you write:
>I just lost a second Micropolis 4.3 GIG SCSI drive. The model number is
>3243. Stay away from these drives at all costs, unless losing business
>and restore is something you like to do. This is the second one of the
>same model to go within the past 4 months.
>
>
>========================================================================
>Thomas J Balfe tbalfe@tioga.com
>President http://www.tioga.com/
>Tioga Communications, Inc 814-867-4770
>========================================================================
>
> "It is well established that the loss of First Amendment freedoms,
> for even minimal periods of time, unquestionably constitutes
> irreparable injury."
> Hohe v. Casey, 868 F. 2d 69, at p. 72, 73 (3d Cir. 1989)
>
>
I wouldn't base disk buying by a couple examples. Also, I'd make sure you
don't have a heat/power problem. Sorry, I know its frustrating. Once I had
a Fujitsu Supereagle which took 3 replacements to find one that wasn't DOA.
And this was after the bug was fixed in the assembly line of supereagles.
My condolances and hope for better luck.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 10:32:23 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29552
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29546
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 10:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA21416; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:31:11 +1000
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:31:11 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199606301731.DAA21416@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>> This is actually the weakest point in the sio driver. Polling 16
>> ports wastes a lot of time when only a few of them are active, and I
>> think processing multiple ports per interrupt is relatively rare even
>> when many of them are active.
>It's not rare when it MATTERS -- that is, when the FIFOs are filling up.
Even this (extremely rare) case is close to the breakeven point. Assume
that input is continually arriving on 16 ports at once and that the fifo
full events are independently randomly distributed (a fairly good
assumption and the worst case). Assume that output is continually going
out on 16 ports at once and the output completion events are
independently randomly distribution (a fairly bad assumption). Assume
no modem status change events (a fairly good assumption). Assume that
the system is a 486 or better on a slow ISA bus (worst case for the
bus). Then handling a fifo full event (for 14 chars of input) takes
about 45us and handling an output completion event (for 16 chars of new
output) takes about 30us. At 115200 bps, 14 characters take about
1215us to arrive,and 16 characters take about 1389us to output, so the
combined chance of a fifo full or output completion event occurring
while a previous fifo full event was being handled is:
1 - ((1215 - 45) / 1215)^16 * ((1389 - 45) / 1389)^16 = 0.68
Polling for this has an average cost of about 10 us. Returning from
the interrupt handler and taking another interrupt immediately (if the
edge trigger braindamaged didn't prevent it :-() costs 5-10us.
The average busy case probably has considerably fewer than 16 fully
active ports at 115200 bps. (It must have fewer than 16 fully active
ports - handling fifo full events alone for 16 ports takes 16 * 45 =
720us = more than half the CPU. Handling output completion events
would take the other half of the CPU.) If only input is occurring on
only 8 ports then the combined chance is:
1 - ((1215 - 45) / 1215)^8 = 0.27
This is below the breakeven point.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 11:11:19 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03196
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03183
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:11:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0uaSRC-000wxWC; Sun, 30 Jun 96 12:45 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836158143; Sun, 30 Jun 96 12:03:36 PST
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 96 12:03:36 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9605308361.AA836158143@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>, bde@zeta.org.au, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> This is below the breakeven point.
Only if you assume no other interrupt-driven I/O is going on, and that
no other code has critical sections where interrupts are masked (or where
task switches don't happen, so that the TTY driver's buffers in RAM can't
be emptied).
Add moderate to heavy disk I/O and things can REALLY break down. You may
recall that, a few months ago, I had to rewrite parts of the wd drivers
to disable a hard disk's "sleep" feature, and discovered that they busy
wait -- the maximum wait is several seconds, in fact -- in the kernel.
This can cause FIFO overruns in the TTY drivers if not in the UARTs.
The worst case is probably a news server with a high-speed feed from
PageSat, since serial and disk activity are linked and are likely to peak
at the same time. CPU utilization also peaks -- due to the use of GZIP
compression for the feed. To make matters worse, the news software uses
lots of memory -- which may trigger swapping and thrashing. So resource
usage of all kinds goes right off the charts!
Problems are also VERY common on machines running X servers (which is why I
never run X on a machine with significant serial traffic).
Thus, when in doubt, I always go for extra buffering. I have been using a
Hayes ESP (the old one, whose 1K receive buffers are hidden) on the busiest
ports to provide an extra margin of safety. With the MTU set to about 500
characters, two whole PPP packets can fit in time of need.
--Brett
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 12:17:28 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07801
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07794
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:17:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id FAA24422; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 05:13:18 +1000
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 05:13:18 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199606301913.FAA24422@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>> This is below the breakeven point.
>Only if you assume no other interrupt-driven I/O is going on, and that
>no other code has critical sections where interrupts are masked (or where
>task switches don't happen, so that the TTY driver's buffers in RAM can't
>be emptied).
This is a good assumption. In FreeBSD, sio and cy interrupts have
priority over all other interrupts. There is a problem if there are
multiple serial boards of different capabilities on separate interrupts
or under separate drivers (e.g., a 16-port 16550 board would starve a
1-port 8250 board). There would be problems if other drivers had high
priority interrupt handlers. Then it might be necessary to prioritize
or fairly schedule the interrupt handlers. This would normally involve
returning from each interrupt handler after doing as little as possible
to give the scheduler a chance to pick the highest priority interrupt.
>Add moderate to heavy disk I/O and things can REALLY break down. You may
Nope. In FreeBSD, disk i/o has no effect on serial interrupt handling in
FreeBSD (except DMA may steal cycles).
>recall that, a few months ago, I had to rewrite parts of the wd drivers
>to disable a hard disk's "sleep" feature, and discovered that they busy
>wait -- the maximum wait is several seconds, in fact -- in the kernel.
>This can cause FIFO overruns in the TTY drivers if not in the UARTs.
Certainly not in the UARTs. There's nothing special about the serial
drivers here (except that their lowest level will keep working). The
wd driver may interrupt any interrupt handler except the clock interrupt
handler. It increases the interrupt mask to the union of bio_imask and
the previous mask. If it then busy-waits, it blocks disk interrupts
and everything that is already masked. Lossage is most likely for
network input at 100 Mb/s. Tty input will most likely be lost due to
applications not being able to run to read the tty buffers.
>Thus, when in doubt, I always go for extra buffering. I have been using a
>Hayes ESP (the old one, whose 1K receive buffers are hidden) on the busiest
>ports to provide an extra margin of safety. With the MTU set to about 500
>characters, two whole PPP packets can fit in time of need.
This won't make much difference under FreeBSD. It may even be harmful.
The pseudo-dma buffers are sized suitably for 16550s. If the UART's
fifo is larger than about 128, then the pseudo-dma buffers won't be able
to take all the input. Flow control may fix the problem in practice
(just like it does for a modem with a bug buffer connected to a UART
with a small fifo).
OTOH, hugh tty buffers are necessary if the system is swapping heavily
or is running many hog processes. E.g., with 100 hog processes running
for 1/10 second each, you need 10 seconds worth of buffering - 115 KB
tty buffers! The default tty buffer size of 1KB isn't even enough
for one hog process. Flow control may fix this problem in practice.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 12:32:02 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA09090
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ceres.brunel.ac.uk (pp@ceres.brunel.ac.uk [134.83.176.3])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09068
for <hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk by ceres.brunel.ac.uk with SMTP (PP);
Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:31:52 +0100
Received: from palmer.demon.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by palmer.demon.co.uk (sendmail/PALMER-2) with ESMTP id TAA08110;
Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:57:46 +0100 (BST)
To: gwh@spiders.com (Gene W Homicki)
cc: bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com,
"Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>,
Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
From: Gary Palmer <gpalmer@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 30 Jun 1996 12:02:00 EDT." <199606301602.MAA03596@charlotte.spiders.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 19:57:45 +0100
Message-ID: <8107.836161065@palmer.demon.co.uk>
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Gene W Homicki wrote in message ID
<199606301602.MAA03596@charlotte.spiders.com>:
> +---
> | On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Gary Palmer wrote:
> |
> | Figuring the price of cheap ethernet cards to be under $40US, you should
> | be able (today) to connect 3 machines for something like $200US including
> | the cost of wire and rj-45 connecters. For a network that small, you can
> | get away with not having a hub.
> +---
Please get you're attributation right ... I said nothing of the sort!
Gary
--
Gary Palmer FreeBSD Core Team Member
FreeBSD: Turning PC's into workstations. See http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/ for info
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 14:42:30 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA19368
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA19361
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:42:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04910; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199606302140.OAA04910@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu,
hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of p 29 Jun 96 21:54:17 PST .
<9605308361.AA836148602@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 14:40:49 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART.
>That's the TI 15570, I believe. It has a 64-byte buffer, as does one of the
>new Exar/Startech parts.
>
>Some of the other solutions use "intelligent" UARTs from Cirrus Logic. The
Don't forget the Hayes ESP cards, which can go up to ~900Kbps. They
emulate a 16550 and have a 1024-byte FIFO.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 17:14:23 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA29740
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from falcon.tioga.com (root@falcon.tioga.com [205.146.65.5])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA29729
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 17:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (tbalfe@localhost) by falcon.tioga.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05191; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:14:07 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:14:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thomas J Balfe <tbalfe@tioga.com>
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Micropolis
In-Reply-To: <199606301723.NAA11303@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.94.960630201246.5127B-100000@falcon.tioga.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I don't think it was a heat problem, I think it's a quality control
problem on the part of Micropolis. (read: junk). I have a Quantum in there
right now, and I've had it for the better part of a year in another
machine, and it works fine in the new machine as well.
========================================================================
Thomas J Balfe tbalfe@tioga.com
President http://www.tioga.com/
Tioga Communications, Inc 814-867-4770
========================================================================
"It is well established that the loss of First Amendment freedoms,
for even minimal periods of time, unquestionably constitutes
irreparable injury."
Hohe v. Casey, 868 F. 2d 69, at p. 72, 73 (3d Cir. 1989)
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 20:44:52 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA20652
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20641
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA15914; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:42:49 -0400
Message-Id: <199607010342.XAA15914@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: chuckr@glue.umd.edu, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 16:49:40 +0930.
<199606290719.QAA20648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:42:33 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199606290719.QAA20648@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>you write:
>Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying:
>>
>> These days, a multiboard should at least do 115200baud in my opinion. At
>> least it can be competitive with modems. 8x115200baud is still only 1/8
>> MB/sec and 16x115200 is only 1/4 MByte/sec. Not exactly fast.
>
>Fast has nothing to do with it. Interrupt rates do.
What's important to most people is to maximize performance at a minimum
price. Handling interrupts quickly is one way to keep a fifo empty. People
would never no the difference if the fifo was emptied every 1/5000 of a
second or every 1/100 of a second. As long as the latency time wasn't
too long and throughput wasn't comprimised and the CPU wasn't overloaded.
>You should sit down and read some of the stuff that Bruce Evans has posted
>on the subject over the years; most particularly his analysis of where the
>actual load in handling serial ports comes from. Some key points :
>
> - A 486 can service around 40,000 ISA interrupts per second, assuming
> minimal interrupt processing time.
> - Most of the CPU overheard in handling serial in/output is in the tty
> layer.
>
>> Jacob
Its true that there's a lot of wasteage. If while I was in school early on
and sharing a class computer with 4MB RAM on a VAX 11/780 that I would feel
I needed to upgrade a 64 MB 20 MIPS sparc 2 that I had to myself, I'd say
you were crazy. But that's what I'm doing.
But while the trivia may be interesting, what I'm interested in is the
bottom line, like most people. If I were designing IO cards things would
be very different. But if you read everything about things that aren't
important to what you do, you'll not be that good at what you do. Its
OK to have hobbies, but choose them carefully.
Its like if my car breaks. I don't know how to fix it for anything major.
So I call an expert (mechanic). If I were to spend time learning to all type
of car problems, Refrigerator problems, sink problems, I'd lose precious time
and the cost of learning it would be > than working on computers and paying
to have those other things fixed.
Jacob
>--
>]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
>]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
>]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sun Jun 30 20:49:46 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA20925
for hardware-outgoing; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20915
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id XAA15937; Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:48:50 -0400
Message-Id: <199607010348.XAA15937@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Bernard Klatt- Admin <admin@ftcnet.com>
cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000?
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 03:11:21 PDT.
<Pine.BSI.3.91.960629024903.24641C-100000@alpha.ftcnet.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:48:45 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.BSI.3.91.960629024903.24641C-100000@alpha.ftcnet.com>you write:
>was Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
>On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote:
>
>> >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when
>> >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm.
>> >> I don't know if they can handle that...
>> >
>> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART.
>>
>> I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are,
>> and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for
>> BSDI will be $95.
>
>I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news
>feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550-
>based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server.
>I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as
>a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news
>server.
> This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked
>around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but
>they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has
>a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output
>spooling.
> I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial
>card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think
>16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat
>data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product
>source would be welcome.
>
>Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com
>
My advice would be to look at www.bsdi.com and see which high speed multiport
cards they have and buy them on a net-30 basis from a cheap supplier.
Again, make sure that BSDI supports it.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 03:12:11 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA15326
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from phoenix.aristar.com (slip125.winc.com [204.178.182.125])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA15306
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from mgessner@localhost) by phoenix.aristar.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA08032 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 06:11:50 -0400
Message-Id: <199607011011.GAA08032@phoenix.aristar.com>
Subject: UPS
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hardware)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 06:11:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: mgessner@aristar.com
Organization: Aristar Software Development, Inc.
Reply-To: mgessner@winc.com
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL19 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi, all,
I'm looking at buying a UPS for my FreeBSD 2.1.0 system. I'd like to get
one with an interface card so that the system can shut itself down in the
event of a power failure (summertime brings lots of thunderstorms here in
NE Ohio!) Does anyone know of any compatible UPS's with interface cards
that will work with FreeBSD and (this may be too much to hope for) the
driver/kernel mod to make it work? I did find one that was supposed to be
compatible with SCO.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Matt
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 03:29:28 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA17218
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Relay1.Austria.EU.net (relay1.Austria.EU.net [192.92.138.47])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA17203
for <hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:29:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shraero.UUCP by Relay1.Austria.EU.net with UUCP id AA12955
(5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hardware@FreeBSD.org); Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:29:13 +0200
Received: by shraero.co.at (5.x/SMI-SVR4)
id AA14021; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:22:27 +0200
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:22:27 +0200
From: kaufmann@shraero.shraero.co.at (Roland Kaufmann)
Message-Id: <9607011022.AA14021@shraero.co.at>
To: hardware@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au> wrote:
>The 16650 is a 16550 with a 32-bye FIFO. Neither are suitable for
>512KBps; at this speed you have a new byte arriving every 16us, or a
>full FIFO after only 512usec. This is too fast for anything other
>than a dedicated system.
>
>
> - A 486 can service around 40,000 ISA interrupts per second, assuming
> minimal interrupt processing time.
Now 40000 interrupts/s gives 25us between interrupts, so it should be
possible to handle several UARTS.
--
best regards
Roland Kaufmann
Roland Kaufmann roland.kaufmann@shraero.co.at
Senior Systems Engineer/Systems Design Phone: +43 1 80199 5563
SCHRACK Aerospace Fax: +43 1 80199 5577
Breitenfurterstr. 106-108 A-1120 Vienna, AUSTRIA
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 03:48:17 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA18400
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:48:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lassie.eunet.fi (lassie.eunet.fi [192.26.119.7])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA18393
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 03:48:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from key.hole.fi by lassie.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA17753
(5.67a/IDA-1.5 for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>); Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:48:01 +0300
Received: (from count@localhost) by key.hole.fi (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA05413 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:48:00 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Bror 'Count' Heinola" <count@key.hole.fi>
Message-Id: <199607011048.NAA05413@key.hole.fi>
Subject: Pentium Pro question
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:48:00 +0300 (EET DST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Would someone care to enlighten me about the pros and cons
of the Pentium Pro chipsets currently available?
For example, ASUS offers two boards, P6NP5 with 440FX chipset and
P6RP4 with 450KX chipset. What are the differences and do they
_matter_ in real-life use? The system would be a nfs/sm server with
Adaptec 3940 and (at least) four SCSI disks and 100M ethernet.
Every clue is appreciated!
--
Bror 'Count' Heinola % count@key.hole.fi % http://pobox.com/~count/
Pengerkatu 13b A5 % IRC: Count NIC: BH271 %
FI-00530 HELSINKI % Work: bror@sms.fi % Roads? Where we're going,
Cell: +358-40-5533-554 % Santa Monica Software % we don't need roads.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 07:24:54 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA29952
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 07:24:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from beta.internetional.com.br (beta.internetional.com.br [200.241.232.250])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29926;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 07:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from wagner@localhost) by beta.internetional.com.br (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA10531; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:24:08 -0300
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:24:08 -0300
From: Wagner Ikeda <wagner@beta.internetional.com.br>
Message-Id: <199607011424.LAA10531@beta.internetional.com.br>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject: 3c590 - Defective early revision adapter!
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hello,
Does anyone came up to a way to fix up this message issued at boot time?
I am using FreeBSD 2.2 SNAP 960501.
Any help will be much appreciated.
Please answer direct to my personal address, since I do not subscribe
to these mailling lists.
TIA.
Regards,
Wagnewr
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 07:29:31 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA00271
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 07:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from www.cas.unt.edu (www.cas.unt.edu [129.120.3.150])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA00249;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 07:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from cofer@localhost) by www.cas.unt.edu (8.7.5/8.6.9) id JAA12421; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 09:29:00 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 09:29:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Christopher D. Cofer" <cofer@www.cas.unt.edu>
To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org
cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Installing Stable on 386/33 No Boot Prompt.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960701090933.11641A-100000@www.cas.unt.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I am trying to install stable on a 386/33 with 20 Meg. I have correctly
downloaded and checked on another machine the boot.flp. After the
machine goes through POST it hangs. The floppy is operational with
other OS boot disks. Has anyone seen this before?
: The MB has CHIPS chipset
: EIDE bios controller by SIIG
: Trident ISA VGA
: DigiBoard PC/16e
: 3com Etherlink III 3c509
The only thing that I was not able to find in the FAQ and posts is the
controller. Is it supported? Would it cause my machine to hang?
I wanted to use this machine to do routing between pppd and the network.
I only need to route one ppp connection, so I am not worried about
speed. The digiboard is important for other serial devices.
The machine is currently running linux slakware 3.0 with kernel 2.0.
This is not working very well because of the driver for the digiboard.
I understand that the driver FreeBSD is better, therefore I am trying to
install it.
If the setup performs well, then I will upgrade the system to a faster
machine. Any comments or suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks in advance...
**********************************************************
* Christopher Don Cofer College of Arts *
* cofer@unt.edu and Science *
* Computer Support Services *
**********************************************************
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 08:26:00 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA04126
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04119
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 08:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA19697; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 08:24:16 -0700
From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com>
Message-Id: <199607011524.IAA19697@GndRsh.aac.dev.com>
Subject: Re: Pentium Pro question
To: count@key.hole.fi (Bror 'Count' Heinola)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 08:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607011048.NAA05413@key.hole.fi> from Bror 'Count' Heinola at "Jul 1, 96 01:48:00 pm"
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> Would someone care to enlighten me about the pros and cons
> of the Pentium Pro chipsets currently available?
I'll try, given the limited data on the 440FX chipset that I have at
this time.
> For example, ASUS offers two boards, P6NP5 with 440FX chipset and
> P6RP4 with 450KX chipset. What are the differences and do they
> _matter_ in real-life use?
The 450KX is known as the ``Orion'' chipset, until stipping B0 it has
some rather serious bugs, the worst one is with respect to PCI bus master
devices, namely they can't bus master at >4.4MB/sec. The pro to this
chipset is that it can do 2 and 4 way memory interleaving which _should_
give it a really fast memory bandwidth, but I have yet to see anyone
produce great results here, this may be that I haven't seen any test
results for B0 chipsets.
The 440FX is known as the ``Natoma'' chipset, it is very new so there
is not much data on it. One known missing feature is memory interleaving
was left out of this chip set.
You can buy a P6RP4 today, the P6NP5 will not be shipping in volume until
``some time in July''. The XP6NP5 is shipping in limit volume now (this
is an ATX form factor board and requires ATX power supply and an ATX
case to put it in.
> The system would be a nfs/sm server with
> Adaptec 3940 and (at least) four SCSI disks and 100M ethernet.
If you go P6RP4 make darn sure that you have the B0 or later chipset,
anything before that will fail misserably with the 100Mbs ethernet
card.
I wish I had more data on the Natoma chipset, but that only comes with
time.
> Every clue is appreciated!
>
> --
> Bror 'Count' Heinola % count@key.hole.fi % http://pobox.com/~count/
> Pengerkatu 13b A5 % IRC: Count NIC: BH271 %
> FI-00530 HELSINKI % Work: bror@sms.fi % Roads? Where we're going,
> Cell: +358-40-5533-554 % Santa Monica Software % we don't need roads.
>
--
Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com
Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 10:55:01 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA16540
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:55:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA16532;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA02834; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:54:48 +0200
Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id TAA24381; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:54:06 +0200
Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id TAA03772; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:41:08 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Message-Id: <199607011741.TAA03772@keltia.freenix.fr>
Subject: SCSI adapter & Success/horror stories with HP pentium XU series
To: hardware@freebsd.org (Hardware Mailing list)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:41:07 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org (FreeBSD SCSI Users' list)
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2178
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
[note: cross posted because one of my questions is about HP computers in
general]
Hi,
I'll be given an HP computer at my new job. The series I'll probably get is
the XU, with a P5-133. It uses an internal IDE (blech) controller and an
Ultra SCSI2 controller, also on the motherboard.
I suspect (and hope!) it is an Adaptec similar to the 2940U (at least using
the same chipset) but I'd like a confirmation before taking the XU series.
Does anyone know if this SCSI adapter is supported by FreeBSD (I'll
probably install a 2.2-SNAP on it) ?
Last (and why it is also on hardware) has anyone success/horror stories
with the latest HP series (VL4 with IDE and XU with both) ?
The configuration I'm looking for is P5-133, 32 or 48 MB, 2x 1 Go SCSI2,
SCSI CDROM 4x and Cirrus Logic video adapter (they offer Matroxes as well
but even if they're good, I don't like their policy...)
Thanks,
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #12: Sun Jun 30 14:10:07 MET DST 1996
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 11:27:30 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA21387
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from seine.cs.UMD.EDU (seine.cs.umd.edu [128.8.128.59])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21358
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:27:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by seine.cs.UMD.EDU (8.7.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
id OAA15395; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:27:08 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199607011827.OAA15395@seine.cs.UMD.EDU>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Laser Printer Hardware
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:27:07 -0400
From: Rohit Dube <rohit@cs.UMD.EDU>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi,
For lack of a better place (and since I use FreeBSD) I am posting
this here :
Is there a good pointer to how Postscript Laser Printers work?
I plan to buy one of these soon (possibly a HP Laserjet 4MV or
a LEXMARK Optra R+) and need to figure out
a) Are the memory simms on the laser printers any different
from usual memory.
b) Cost / pain involved in adding a postscript card to a
non-postscript printer (eg the HP LaserJet 4V).
c) Speedup obtained on going from 2MB memory to 4MB, 8MB.
d) Peoples experience with the 4MV, 4V or the OPTRA.
Out of curiosity : if fonts are stored on the ROM, for small / medium
documents shouldn't 2MB perform as well as say 4MB or higher?
Thanks in advance.
--rohit.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 12:41:26 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29013
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay.hp.com (relay.hp.com [15.255.152.2])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28939;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from srmail.sr.hp.com by relay.hp.com with ESMTP
(1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA244710063; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:03 -0700
Received: from hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com by srmail.sr.hp.com with ESMTP
(1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA090540062; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:02 -0700
Received: from mina.sr.hp.com by hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com with SMTP
(1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA280680061; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:41:01 -0700
Message-Id: <199607011941.AA280680061@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com>
To: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org (Hardware Mailing list),
freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org (FreeBSD SCSI Users' list)
Subject: Re: SCSI adapter & Success/horror stories with HP pentium XU series
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Jul 1996 19:41:07 +0200."
<199607011741.TAA03772@keltia.freenix.fr>
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 12:41:01 -0700
From: Darryl Okahata <darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> I'll be given an HP computer at my new job. The series I'll probably get is
> the XU, with a P5-133. It uses an internal IDE (blech) controller and an
> Ultra SCSI2 controller, also on the motherboard.
>
> I suspect (and hope!) it is an Adaptec similar to the 2940U (at least using
> the same chipset) but I'd like a confirmation before taking the XU series.
If it's anything like the XU 5/90C that's next to my workstation,
it does *NOT* use an adaptec controller. My XU 5/90C uses some AMD SCSI
chip, which I believe is not supported by any FreeBSD version (at least,
it's not mentioned in either the FAQ or handbook, and there doesn't
appear to be any driver filenames in the 6/12 -snap that contain "amd").
Under Windows 95, the built-in SCSI is reported as an "AMD PCI SCSI
Controller" (darn, I was hoping for some chip numbers).
Sorry.
-- Darryl Okahata
Internet: darrylo@sr.hp.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Hewlett-Packard, or of the
little green men that have been following him all day.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 12:45:15 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA29764
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:45:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.131.181])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA29757
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from emu.fsl.noaa.gov (kelly@emu.fsl.noaa.gov [137.75.60.32]) by gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13222; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:45:09 GMT
Message-Id: <199607011945.TAA13222@gatekeeper.fsl.noaa.gov>
Received: by emu.fsl.noaa.gov
(1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA062750356; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:45:56 -0600
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:45:56 -0600
From: Sean Kelly <kelly@fsl.noaa.gov>
To: gwh@spiders.com
Cc: brantk@gatekeeper.atlas.com, hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199606282257.SAA05541@charlotte.spiders.com> (gwh@spiders.com)
Subject: Re: Devices compatible with tw(4) (X-10)
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>>>>> "Gene" == Gene W Homicki <gwh@spiders.com> writes:
Gene> I was just looking for remote power cycling devices
Gene> (via phone, or whatever else) to manage a machine room while
Gene> there are no staff around....and this message popped up.
Gene> Has anyone used the X-10 stuff for this type of application?
I don't know of anyone personally, but it's certainly possible with
X10.
In fact, there are telephone controllers for X10. You call up, enter
a passcode, and then enter the X10 commands you want. It transmits
them. I think JDS's Time Commander includes a phone-control option
for X10, and there have got to be other solutions out there. I'd
check Home Automation Systems' catalog ... not necessarily to buy from
them (some prices good, yes, some prices ... not so good), but to get
an idea of what's out there:
http://www.techmall.com/smarthome/index.html
If you want to involve FreeBSD with it, then one of the voicemail
modems could work too. Get the kind that can echo back what
touch-tones are pressed. When you get the correct code, have your
FreeBSD system send X10 commands.
If you're into recognizing touch-tones by hand, you can get a device
called the VM100 from Reveal for about $49.95 (Internet Shopping
Network carries 'em: http://www.isn.com). It's a device that plugs
into your phone, into a serial port, and into the line in/line out
jacks of your soundcard. When it indicates a ring, go off hook, and
have the soundcard listen ... when you recognize the right DTMF tones,
do whatever you want!
--
Sean Kelly
NOAA Forecast Systems Laboratory kelly@fsl.noaa.gov
Boulder Colorado USA http://www-sdd.fsl.noaa.gov/~kelly/
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 13:22:34 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05219
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-42-157.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.157])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05201;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA17712; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:41:54 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-Id: <199607011241.OAA17712@vector.jhs.no_domain>
To: Chuck Robey <chuckr@Glue.umd.edu>
cc: Kevin Swanson <Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com>, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
From: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@freebsd.org>
Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@freebsd.org>
Organization: Vector Systems Ltd.
Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany
Phone: +49.89.268616
Fax: +49.89.2608126 (later)
Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/
Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:38:23 EDT."
<Pine.OSF.3.91.960628143531.1057C-100000@thurston.eng.umd.edu>
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:41:53 +0200
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi, Reference:
> From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@Glue.umd.edu>
> Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
>
I use my modem at 57600 via a
PC ISA "Eight-Serial" Card,
Manufacturer: Decision-Computer International. Co., Ltd,
4F, No 31-3, Alley 4, Lane 906 Min-Shen East Road, Taipei, Taiwan,
8 * 16450
ive not tried faster, Ive not tried flood testing all channels.
More info via my:
http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/generic/sys/i386/isa/isa_8com.h.JHS
Julian
--
Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 13:29:08 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05951
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:29:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from novell.com (prv-ums.Provo.Novell.COM [137.65.40.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05877;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:28:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from INET-PRV-Message_Server by novell.com
with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:26:26 -0600
Message-Id: <s1d7e012.029@novell.com>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:33:51 -0600
From: Darren Davis <DARREND@novell.com>
To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, darrylo@novell.com
Cc: freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: SCSI adapter & Success/horror stories with HP pentium XU
series - Reply
Encoding: 13 Text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
If it is anything like the new Pentium Pro based HP Vectra XUs, it has
and Adaptec 2940 style adapter. I have several vintages of HP Vectra XUs
(I love these machines). I even have some of the older ones with the AMD
chipset running UnixWare. I was successful in getting FreeBSD 2.2 snap
to work on this Pentium Pro box. The only driver problems I had is for
the HP based network board (We stuck in an NE2000 for FreeBSD), and the
Matrox video board (We are going to get Xinside). BTW these HPs are DAMN
fast!
Darren R. Davis
Senior Software Engineer
Novell, Inc.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 13:57:40 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09877
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lassie.eunet.fi (lassie.eunet.fi [192.26.119.7])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA09807
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:57:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from key.hole.fi by lassie.eunet.fi with SMTP id AA22905
(5.67a/IDA-1.5 for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>); Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:57:12 +0300
Received: (from count@localhost) by key.hole.fi (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA06284; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:57:12 +0300 (EET DST)
From: "Bror 'Count' Heinola" <count@key.hole.fi>
Message-Id: <199607012057.XAA06284@key.hole.fi>
Subject: Re: Pentium Pro question
To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:57:11 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607011524.IAA19697@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Jul 1, 96 08:24:16 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Rodney W. Grimes taisi sanoa:
>
> If you go P6RP4 make darn sure that you have the B0 or later chipset,
> anything before that will fail misserably with the 100Mbs ethernet
> card.
Thank you, I'll call them tomorrow and ask some more about
their boards.
Would it be reasonable to go with a Pentium 166 and Triton-II
board instead of an early Orion, given the tasks the computer
is supposed to be doing? ie. heavy on I/O, not much CPU required.
> I wish I had more data on the Natoma chipset, but that only comes with
> time.
Yeah, information usually becomes available after it's been
obsolete for a while.
--
Bror 'Count' Heinola % count@key.hole.fi % http://pobox.com/~count/
Pengerkatu 13b A5 % IRC: Count NIC: BH271 %
FI-00530 HELSINKI % Work: bror@sms.fi % Roads? Where we're going,
Cell: +358-40-5533-554 % Santa Monica Software % we don't need roads.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 14:09:30 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12031
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:09:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11959;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03018; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:08:47 +0200
Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id XAA26153; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:08:33 +0200
Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id WAA04589; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 22:47:02 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Message-Id: <199607012047.WAA04589@keltia.freenix.fr>
Subject: Re: SCSI adapter & Success/horror stories with HP pentium XU series
To: darrylo@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com (Darryl Okahata)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 22:47:02 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-scsi@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607011941.AA280680061@hpnmhjw.sr.hp.com> from Darryl Okahata at "Jul 1, 96 12:41:01 pm"
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2178
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
It seems that Darryl Okahata said:
> If it's anything like the XU 5/90C that's next to my workstation,
> it does *NOT* use an adaptec controller. My XU 5/90C uses some AMD SCSI
I know old versions use something we don't support but this is a very
recent model I think and the term used "Ultra SCSI2" makes me think it is
the same adapter as the new Pentium Pro as two other persons said.
I'll fervently hope it is the same for the P133. I'll get the exact model
number tomorrow.
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #12: Sun Jun 30 14:10:07 MET DST 1996
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 14:38:09 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16279
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16251
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA24714; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:36:18 -0700
From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com>
Message-Id: <199607012136.OAA24714@GndRsh.aac.dev.com>
Subject: Re: Pentium Pro question
To: count@key.hole.fi (Bror 'Count' Heinola)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:36:17 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607012057.XAA06284@key.hole.fi> from Bror 'Count' Heinola at "Jul 1, 96 11:57:11 pm"
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL11 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> Rodney W. Grimes taisi sanoa:
> >
> > If you go P6RP4 make darn sure that you have the B0 or later chipset,
> > anything before that will fail misserably with the 100Mbs ethernet
> > card.
>
> Thank you, I'll call them tomorrow and ask some more about
> their boards.
>
> Would it be reasonable to go with a Pentium 166 and Triton-II
> board instead of an early Orion, given the tasks the computer
> is supposed to be doing? ie. heavy on I/O, not much CPU required.
The ASUS PCI/I-P55T2P4 boards equiped with a 133 or 166 MHz CPU make
outstanding NFS servers for 100Mbs networks, a Pentium PRO would be overkill,
so yes, IMHO it would reasonable.
> > I wish I had more data on the Natoma chipset, but that only comes with
> > time.
>
> Yeah, information usually becomes available after it's been
> obsolete for a while.
Not obsolete, just in production for at least 90 days. Serious bugs
usually show up right away (Orion based boards had only been shipping for a
few weeks before the 4.4MB/s problem was found). Subtle bugs can take
a long time to show up, and often only effect very specific applications
(ASUS PCI/I-P55TP4N ignore the NMI signal on the ISA bus, I have only
known 1 person to ever run into that bug, and that was after I had been
shipping those boards for 4 months).
--
Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com
Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 14:54:41 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18122
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18052;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:54:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03129; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:54:17 +0200
Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id XAA26622; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:53:42 +0200
Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id XAA05029; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:53:38 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Message-Id: <199607012153.XAA05029@keltia.freenix.fr>
Subject: Re: SCSI adapter & Success/horror stories with HP pentium XU series - Reply
To: DARREND@novell.com (Darren Davis)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 23:53:38 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: freebsd-scsi@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD SCSI Users' list),
hardware@FreeBSD.ORG (Hardware Mailing list)
In-Reply-To: <s1d7e012.030@novell.com> from Darren Davis at "Jul 1, 96 02:33:51 pm"
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2178
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
It seems that Darren Davis said:
> If it is anything like the new Pentium Pro based HP Vectra XUs, it has
> and Adaptec 2940 style adapter. I have several vintages of HP Vectra XUs
After digging thru HP's Web site, it seems that ONLY the P6 models use the
Adaptec adapter so I'm stuck with either IDE or make them buy a 2940 or
NCR.
DAMN HP!
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #12: Sun Jun 30 14:10:07 MET DST 1996
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 14:55:23 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18232
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from jmb@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA18204;
Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" <jmb>
Message-Id: <199607012155.OAA18204@freefall.freebsd.org>
Subject: new floppy tape program
To: hackers
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hardware
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Richard Samuel <rsamuel@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au> has made available
to us a new floppytape program. several people have used it and
recommend it over our own ft.
it is available on frefall in ~jmb/lft and in incoming/lft.tar.gz.uu
if you have a floopy tape, please get this program and try it out.
jmb
--
Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG
FreeBSD--4.4BSD Unix for PC clones, source included. http://www.freebsd.org/
PGP 2.6.2 Fingerprint: 31 57 41 56 06 C1 40 13 C5 1C E3 E5 DC 62 0E FB
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 18:03:18 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA06525
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from misery.sdf.com (misery.sdf.com [204.244.210.193])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06519
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (tom@localhost) by misery.sdf.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA00236; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
To: "Christopher D. Cofer" <cofer@www.cas.unt.edu>
cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Installing Stable on 386/33 No Boot Prompt.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960701090933.11641A-100000@www.cas.unt.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.93.960701181041.215A-100000@misery.sdf.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Christopher D. Cofer wrote:
> I am trying to install stable on a 386/33 with 20 Meg. I have correctly
> downloaded and checked on another machine the boot.flp. After the
> machine goes through POST it hangs. The floppy is operational with
> other OS boot disks. Has anyone seen this before?
Make sure the drive is configured as 1.44MB floppy in the CMOS setup.
DOS doesn't care, and works no matter the CMOS says, but the loader on the
boot disk needs to know.
Tom
From owner-freebsd-hardware Mon Jul 1 19:16:09 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA11515
for hardware-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cbgw1.att.com (cbgw1.att.com [192.20.239.133])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11473
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:16:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: gtc@aloft.att.com
Received: by cbig1.att.att.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.2 sol2)
id WAA21752; Mon, 1 Jul 1996 22:11:33 -0400
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, mgessner@winc.com
Received: from aloft (aloft.cnet.att.com) by aluxpo (4.1/DCS-aluxpo-M4.3)
id AA24323; Mon, 1 Jul 96 22:15:54 EDT
Received: from stargazer (stargazer.cnet.att.com) by aloft (4.1/DCS-aloft-M5.1)
id AA24652; Mon, 1 Jul 96 22:15:58 EDT
Received: by stargazer (4.1/DCS-aloft_client-S2.1)
id AA25045; Mon, 1 Jul 96 22:15:56 EDT
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 96 22:15:56 EDT
Original-From: aluxpo!aloft!gtc (gary.corcoran)
Message-Id: <9607020215.AA25045@stargazer>
Original-To: freebsd.org!freebsd-hardware, winc.com!mgessner
Subject: Re: UPS
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
You may want to check out Best UPS's (http://www.bestpower.com).
They're reliable, and now they come with a free CD-ROM with monitoring
and shutdown software. They have versions for all the Win* versions,
and for those without Win*, *source code* and instructions for compiling
for your unix system. All you need is a free serial port to hook up
the UPS to your computer. From the recent ads I've seen, it even comes
with the special (non-standard) serial cable you need to hook up to
your computer's standard serial port.
I haven't had the time to try to install the software for FreeBSD, but
it is supposed to allow you to do an orderly shutdown of your FreeBSD
machine when the battery starts running low.
Gary
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 06:13:41 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA06393
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 06:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from www.cas.unt.edu (www.cas.unt.edu [129.120.3.150])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06388
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from cofer@localhost) by www.cas.unt.edu (8.7.5/8.6.9) id IAA24875; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 08:13:08 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 08:13:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Christopher D. Cofer" <cofer@www.cas.unt.edu>
To: Tom Samplonius <tom@sdf.com>
cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Installing Stable on 386/33 No Boot Prompt.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.93.960701181041.215A-100000@misery.sdf.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960702081105.24581A-100000@www.cas.unt.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I found the problem. I removed the SIIG controller and replaced it with
a simple IDE controller. It worked fine. Is the on board BIOS on
controllers not supported under FBSD?
On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Tom Samplonius wrote:
>
> On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Christopher D. Cofer wrote:
>
> > I am trying to install stable on a 386/33 with 20 Meg. I have correctly
> > downloaded and checked on another machine the boot.flp. After the
> > machine goes through POST it hangs. The floppy is operational with
> > other OS boot disks. Has anyone seen this before?
>
> Make sure the drive is configured as 1.44MB floppy in the CMOS setup.
> DOS doesn't care, and works no matter the CMOS says, but the loader on the
> boot disk needs to know.
>
> Tom
**********************************************************
* Christopher Don Cofer College of Arts *
* cofer@unt.edu and Science *
* Computer Support Services *
**********************************************************
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 10:25:11 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23934
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23921
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0ubAhe-000x08C; Tue, 2 Jul 96 12:01 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836328145; Tue, 02 Jul 96 10:32:07 PST
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 96 10:32:07 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9606028363.AA836328145@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>, bde@zeta.org.au, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> If the UART's fifo is larger than about 128, then the pseudo-dma buffers
> won't be able to take all the input. Flow control may fix the problem in
> practice (just like it does for a modem with a bug buffer connected to a
> UART with a small fifo).
This brings up a problem I'd forgotten about: slow modem response to flow
control signals. Often, the modem's internal firmware gives flow control
such a low priority that several hundred characters can escape before a
dropped "Clear to Send" signal is recognized. A UART with a big FIFO can
help, especially if the UART does not have automatic flow control.
--Brett
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 10:25:19 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA23948
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from lserver.infoworld.com (lserver.infoworld.com [192.216.48.4])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23924
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ccgate.infoworld.com by lserver.infoworld.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0ubAhi-000wzkC; Tue, 2 Jul 96 12:01 PDT
Received: from cc:Mail by ccgate.infoworld.com
id AA836328152; Tue, 02 Jul 96 10:57:04 PST
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 96 10:57:04 PST
From: "Brett Glass" <Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com>
Message-Id: <9606028363.AA836328152@ccgate.infoworld.com>
To: Thomas J Balfe <tbalfe@tioga.com>, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Micropolis
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> I don't think it was a heat problem, I think it's a quality control
> problem on the part of Micropolis. (read: junk).
These days, hard drive manufacturers are FORCED to produce junk, because
unknowledgeable consumers don't understand what a hard drive is -- much
less how to judge its quality. All they know is that they want a low price.
Maxtor has suffered of late because it tried to produce high-quality
drives. OEMs wouldn't buy them because they cost a tiny bit more.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 10:56:53 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA25842
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:56:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25833
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 10:56:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id DAA20842; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 03:54:03 +1000
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 03:54:03 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199607021754.DAA20842@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: Brett_Glass@ccgate.infoworld.com, bde@zeta.org.au, hdalog@zipnet.net,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@BLaCKSMITH.com, chuckr@glue.umd.edu,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>This brings up a problem I'd forgotten about: slow modem response to flow
>control signals. Often, the modem's internal firmware gives flow control
>such a low priority that several hundred characters can escape before a
>dropped "Clear to Send" signal is recognized. A UART with a big FIFO can
>help, especially if the UART does not have automatic flow control.
The modem needs to recognize flow control within 100-200 characters for
the default FreeBSD buffer sizes.
Flow control can't be depended on to prevent fifo overflows in the UART
because the sender can't be depended on to stop before sending more
characters than fit in the fifo.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 15:26:26 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA05415
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 15:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [206.81.134.54])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05410
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 15:26:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00547; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:26:16 -0600
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:26:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: Brandon Gillespie <brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: pushing a motherboard to test errors?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960702161306.527A-100000@tombstone.sunrem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I have a system with FreeBSD 2.1-R and Windows 95. I have had no end of
troubles. The computer has been back to the shop with them returning 'no
detectable problems' (however, their probing software was only used in
Windows 95). I suspect the i/o on the motherboard is somehow bad, and I
have finally convinced them to look at it again.
What I need to know is, can I somehow push the i/o (doing x reads and x
writes) and detect if and how many errors occurred? Unfortunately I've
not been able to repeatably recreate any error, I feel more as if my
computer is simply possessed ;)
Some problems I _do_ know of is reading from the floppy disk is roulette,
sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt (in both Win95 and FreeBSD,
although Win95 seems to have less problems). I was completely unable to
ever fully read the disks for the Accelerated X server, I ended up
dropping a network card into the system and transfering the disk images
over the net. Another floppy problem included trying to copy a simple
128k file from one computer to mine (In Windows 95, to Windows 95). The
file was copied on one computer, and put into the possessed computer.
Attempts to read the file (copy) ended in a disk failure, even though he
could read off the disk just fine. I formatted the disk on the possessed
computer, no hard errors. We copied the file again, he could read it
from his computer, I could read it from FreeBSD on a _different_ PC
system, but trying to read it from this possessed computer ended in a
disk error. Finally I mounted the disk (-tmsdos), cp'd the confused file
onto my freebsd file system and re-copied it back onto the msdos disk,
THEN the possessed computer read it (!?!).
The company I bought the computer from is doing their best to place the
blame on me having it configured dual boot with FreeBSD, which simply
sounds like them trying to gimp out. I have swapped the drive for others
and the error still occurs. I have swapped the cable, no difference. The
only other conclusion I can reach is it IS the i/o.
Also, I have a CDROM on the same i/o system, configured EXACTLY like
everybody suggests, the hardware is all supposedly supported. I have
tried it as the master on the second device and the slave on the first
device (with the other disk), neither configuration works. When FreeBSD
boots it simply does not find the CDROM.
I have also noted odd behavior with the hard drive, but I am unsure if
that is usual behaviour for the a western digital caviar 1.02 gb drive (It
periodically makes a nasty loud sound like its vibrating and resonating in
the case, upon bootup. It is a rare occurance, but it gives one a shaky
feeling about the stability and security of the data on their system).
Does this sound like an i/o problem? If so, can I hack up a program that
will probe the i/o and tickle its inner workings to show actual errors?
How would one do this?
(BTW, reading from a floppy disk in FreeBSD usually ends with about
50-100 fd0 timeouts ending with an fdsc sector read error--the disk is
usually completely readable from other computers).
Help? :)
-Brandon Gillespie
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 15:38:49 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA06155
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 15:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [206.81.134.54])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06149
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 15:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00624 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:38:46 -0600
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 16:38:46 -0600
From: Brandon Gillespie <brandon@tombstone.sunrem.com>
Message-Id: <199607022238.QAA00624@tombstone.sunrem.com>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: (More) pushing a motherboard to test errors?
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
The motherboard is a Triton-I chipset with an intel pentium 100 processor.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 23:01:10 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA06966
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:01:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA06954
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10772; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607030600.XAA10772@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: Kevin Swanson <Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com>
cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 96 14:00:10 -0400.
<9606281800.AA05807@BLaCKSMITH.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 23:00:52 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>Someone mentioned using a Cyclades-8 port serial card at 115.2 KBps. Is that
>with 16550's?
Cyclades is a proprietary design with some kind of (Cirrus Logic?)
RISC-based chip, from what I've been told.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 23:04:45 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA07214
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07207
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:04:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10791; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:03:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607030603.XAA10791@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: "Christopher D. Cofer" <cofer@www.cas.unt.edu>
cc: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>,
Kevin Swanson <Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com>,
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:46:11 -0500.
<Pine.BSF.3.91.960628133619.26866B-100000@www.cas.unt.edu>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 23:03:51 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>
>On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote:
>> Kevin Swanson stands accused of saying:
>
>> > I've seen that some people have have used Digi PC/8 boards for this
>> >type of thing? Digi also has "intelligent" models (PC/Xe, PC/Xr,
>> >PC/Xem) that have a front-end processor and don't require an interrupt
>> >on the computer? Has anybody gotten these "intelligent" boards to work
>> >with freebsd 2.1?
>>
>> Of course, but any "intelligent" serial board will conflict with your
>> "save some money" requirement; the cost per port is over double that
>> of a "dumb" card, and in your case it's not warranted.
>
>The question remains... Does FreeBSD work with "intelligent" digboard
>cards. I have a machine that I would like to route between ppp and
>local net. I choose Linux to do so, since at the time all I could find
>about BSD and digiboard PC/Xe was that it was not possible. If this has
>changed, would someone please point me to the correct information about
>setting this up. I am getting tired of messing with Linux.
Digiboard isn't the only company that makes multiport cards. I think
I've seen posts alluding to Digiboard support, but that's as much as I
know about Digiboard.
Cyclades makes quite decent eight and sixteen port cards.
If you already spent a bunch of money on Digiboards, well... good
luck. :-) If you can buy a Cyclades to try it out, go for it -- I
*know* they work, because I am running one on FreeBSD right now.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Tue Jul 2 23:43:01 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA10169
for hardware-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10161
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:42:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11047; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:41:59 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607030641.XAA11047@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas), henry@zoo.toronto.edu,
hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 96 17:14:29 +0930.
<199606290744.RAA20801@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 23:41:55 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>What's the difference between an ethernet card and a high-speed serial
>card other than the name and the shape of the connectors?
>(Aside from performance, of course)
The fact that one handles things a character at a time, interrupting
for every few, and the other handles things a "packet" at a time,
interrupting for every "packet-full" of data. There's an order of
magnitude scaling difference there.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 00:09:28 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA12291
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 00:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@[199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA12276
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 00:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11148; Tue, 2 Jul 1996 23:57:16 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607030657.XAA11148@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas), stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 30 Jun 96 01:06:38 +0930.
<199606291536.BAA21513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 23:57:07 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>> Thanks for the information. But as I said in a recent message, the new TI
>> chip can go over 900Kbaud/sec. This isn't so fast. Its 1/10th the speed
>> of old ethernet and 1/100 of new 100 Mbit/sec ethernet.
>As I've already said, the 16550 will go faster. The problem is that the
>programming model for the 16550 makes no provision for more divider steps,
>and thus any software that wants to talk to either of these chips must be
>modified to understand the higher speeds.
>
>Quatech do a card called the DS-100 with a pair of PC16550D's and an 18MHz
>clock and a jumperable /1 /2 /5 /10 divider that will allow your to
>run your 16550 ports significantly faster.
The Hayes ESP cards have a software programmable divider. Default is
1x, which in 16550-compat mode gives you a max of 115,200bps. You can
use the software config program with the card and program a 1x, 2x,
4x, or 8x multiplyer (if I remember right). Meaning that if you had
the 8x multiplyer set, you could set it so Free/NetBSD thought you
were doing 115,200bps, but the port would really be pumping
921,600bps.
I don't know for sure (don't have the programming docs nearby), but I
suspect that the multiplier can also be set via the "enhanced-mode"
programming registers.
Both NetBSD-current and FreeBSD-current have explicit support for the
ESP card (to set bigger high/low-water marks on the buffer, and send
in larger bursts).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 01:49:00 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA19191
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 01:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA19184
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 01:48:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA09055 for hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 18:09:56 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607030839.SAA09055@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: slow receive on WD8013EBT?
To: hardware@freebsd.org
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 18:09:55 +0930 (CST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Got an odd one here; I have a WD8013EBT in a system that's misbehaving -
it transmits just fine, but when receiving seems to only pick up one
interrupt a second, meaning that it's Very Slow 8(
I've tried this under 2.1R and the 2.2-960501 SNAP with no change in
results, so I can only assume it's a hardware funny, but can't guess
what... 8(
Any ideas?
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 04:33:47 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA02135
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 04:33:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA01576
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 04:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25900; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:39:33 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id OAA25030; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:39:31 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607031139.OAA25030@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: michaelv@HeadCandy.com (Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:39:30 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: cofer@www.cas.unt.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607030603.XAA10791@MindBender.HeadCandy.com> from "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" at Jul 2, 96 11:03:51 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
# If you already spent a bunch of money on Digiboards, well... good
# luck. :-) If you can buy a Cyclades to try it out, go for it -- I
# *know* they work, because I am running one on FreeBSD right now.
Hello Michael and people,
and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
(I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
requirements.
Any experiences? opinions? suggestions?
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 04:39:53 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id EAA02595
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 04:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA02589
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 04:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA09481; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:00:35 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607031130.VAA09481@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Installing Stable on 386/33 No Boot Prompt.
To: cofer@www.cas.unt.edu (Christopher D. Cofer)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:00:35 +0930 (CST)
Cc: tom@sdf.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960702081105.24581A-100000@www.cas.unt.edu> from "Christopher D. Cofer" at Jul 2, 96 08:13:08 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Christopher D. Cofer stands accused of saying:
>
>
> I found the problem. I removed the SIIG controller and replaced it with
> a simple IDE controller. It worked fine. Is the on board BIOS on
> controllers not supported under FBSD?
It's not a question of FreeBSD not "supporting" these controllers; the
problem is that the onboard BIOSses don't behave properly, and thus
the FreeBSD bootloader fails.
Because very few people have the time or inclination to patch
perfectly correct and functional software to work with inferior,
broken hardware, these sort of things don't get "fixed".
> * Christopher Don Cofer College of Arts *
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 05:47:52 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA04419
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 05:47:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ra.dkuug.dk ([130.225.204.52])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA04414
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 05:47:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA14182; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:44:46 +0200
Message-Id: <199607031244.OAA14182@ra.dkuug.dk>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:44:46 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: michaelv@HeadCandy.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031139.OAA25030@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Jul 3, 96 02:39:30 pm
From: sos@FreeBSD.org
Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In reply to Andrew V. Stesin who wrote:
>
> # If you already spent a bunch of money on Digiboards, well... good
> # luck. :-) If you can buy a Cyclades to try it out, go for it -- I
> # *know* they work, because I am running one on FreeBSD right now.
>
> Hello Michael and people,
>
> and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
>
> (I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
> Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
> At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
> requirements.
I'm currently using two of their old ONBoard cards. Both are
16 ports/ISA types. If their newer cards are of the same
quality I can only recommend them. I run both cards at their
full speed (38400) on all 16 ports, works very nice...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
So much code to hack -- so little time.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 06:02:42 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA05265
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA05258
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA09601; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:13:12 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607031243.WAA09601@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:13:12 +0930 (CST)
Cc: michaelv@HeadCandy.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031139.OAA25030@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Jul 3, 96 02:39:30 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Andrew V. Stesin stands accused of saying:
>
> Hello Michael and people,
>
> and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
gerg@stallion.com.au wrote and supports the FreeBSD driver for the
entire range of Stallion cards.
> (I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
> Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
> At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
> requirements.
I'm curious - why PCI? Stallion have an excellent reputation and their gear
is available prettymuch anywhere in the worl; I wouldn't hesitate to
recommend them if you're serious about your hardware.
> With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 06:25:49 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA07047
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA06825;
Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00462; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:41:22 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id QAA03393; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:41:21 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607031341.QAA03393@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:41:21 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, michaelv@HeadCandy.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031243.WAA09601@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 3, 96 10:13:12 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi Mike,
# > and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
#
# gerg@stallion.com.au wrote and supports the FreeBSD driver for the
# entire range of Stallion cards.
Thanks for the pointer! (I tried mailto:info@stallion.com
recently, and didn't get any useful information,
signal/noise was ~0.0 in their reply).
# > (I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
# > Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
# > At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
# > requirements.
#
# I'm curious - why PCI?
Something makes me beleive that if I want more than 16 ports
at 115200 per box, there would be two bottlenecks:
1. tty-level driver overhead, that's what I'm watching
now with 16 FIFOed ports in 486dx4/100 -- interrupt
load is tiny, and most of CPU is eaten by system.
"Smart" card with it's own CPU (I treat it like
an I/O co-processor) should minimize this factor. (?)
2. ISA bus itself, no matter what will I put into it.
We don't have any EISA slots; so PCI is left.
(And should I mention the fact that there are boxes around
of non-Intel architectures running unices, which
have PCI slots but no ISA slots?) Yes, probably I'm
wrong and ISA can deal i.e. with 32x115200; but how
reliable will this configuration be?
# Stallion have an excellent reputation and their gear
# is available prettymuch anywhere in the worl;
Still absent here in Ukraine, for a pity.
# I wouldn't hesitate to
# recommend them if you're serious about your hardware.
Thanks, got it.
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 06:28:49 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA07262
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:28:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA07243;
Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:28:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA04990
; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 06:21:40 -0700
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29329; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:09 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id QAA02893; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:08 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607031328.QAA02893@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: sos@FreeBSD.org
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:08 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, michaelv@HeadCandy.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031244.OAA14182@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Jul 3, 96 02:44:46 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hello again,
# > and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
# >
# > (I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
# > Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
# > At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
# > requirements.
#
Hi So:ren, you say:
# I'm currently using two of their old ONBoard cards. Both are
# 16 ports/ISA types. If their newer cards are of the same
# quality I can only recommend them. I run both cards at their
# full speed (38400) on all 16 ports, works very nice...
We have several MOXA C104+ (4 ports) and C128+ (8 ports)
boards now, theyr'e with 16550 chips and are Ok with
all channels at 57600, up to 16 channels per 486 box;
FreeBSD performs flawlessly, no overloads or overruns.
(Thanks to Bruce Evans and sio.c hackers!)
So I should certainly add:
simultaneous speed of 115200 on _all_ ports is required
too -- otherwise, will I gain something better from this
"smart" boards than I'm getting now from good old FIFOs?
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 07:18:26 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA09612
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:18:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [204.216.27.3])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09578;
Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA05146
; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:16:53 -0700
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29329; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:09 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id QAA02893; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:08 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607031328.QAA02893@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: sos@FreeBSD.org
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 16:28:08 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, michaelv@HeadCandy.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com,
freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, isp@FreeBSD.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031244.OAA14182@ra.dkuug.dk> from "sos@FreeBSD.org" at Jul 3, 96 02:44:46 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hello again,
# > and who can enlighten me about Stallion cards?
# >
# > (I'm looking for PCI, 16 or 32 ports device, be it
# > Stallion, Cyclades, Digiboard or whoever).
# > At least 16 ports, PCI, and FreeBSD support _are_ the
# > requirements.
#
Hi So:ren, you say:
# I'm currently using two of their old ONBoard cards. Both are
# 16 ports/ISA types. If their newer cards are of the same
# quality I can only recommend them. I run both cards at their
# full speed (38400) on all 16 ports, works very nice...
We have several MOXA C104+ (4 ports) and C128+ (8 ports)
boards now, theyr'e with 16550 chips and are Ok with
all channels at 57600, up to 16 channels per 486 box;
FreeBSD performs flawlessly, no overloads or overruns.
(Thanks to Bruce Evans and sio.c hackers!)
So I should certainly add:
simultaneous speed of 115200 on _all_ ports is required
too -- otherwise, will I gain something better from this
"smart" boards than I'm getting now from good old FIFOs?
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 07:39:28 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA12984
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA12241
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02338; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:57:04 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id RAA04815; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:57:04 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607031457.RAA04815@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 17:57:03 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031402.XAA09755@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jul 3, 96 11:32:51 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
# Sales people are universally useless. I almost always try to make
# contact with technical staff when evaluating a product.
That's life... I wasn't lucky enough to get a person's
name from them, -- but I was dumb enough to forget
that I can look at copyright notice in the driver :-)
# > 1. tty-level driver overhead, that's what I'm watching
# > now with 16 FIFOed ports in 486dx4/100 -- interrupt
# > load is tiny, and most of CPU is eaten by system.
# > "Smart" card with it's own CPU (I treat it like
# > an I/O co-processor) should minimize this factor. (?)
#
# No. None of the 'smart' cards currently around perform any tty processing.
Won't tty-level overhead decrease when the data flow through a port
will be going in bigger chunks?
# > 2. ISA bus itself, no matter what will I put into it.
# > We don't have any EISA slots; so PCI is left.
# > (And should I mention the fact that there are boxes around
# > of non-Intel architectures running unices, which
# > have PCI slots but no ISA slots?) Yes, probably I'm
# > wrong and ISA can deal i.e. with 32x115200; but how
# > reliable will this configuration be?
#
# This is a significant issue. 32x115200 is ~350K/sec. presuming 100%
# efficiency. IIRC, Bruce quoted more like 50%, so the ISA bus would be
# prettymuch saturated. A 'smart' card with a shared-memory interface
# might be more efficient in this case.
That's precisely what I meant. Pentium won't help here :-)
About shared-memory interface -- doesn't it work
through the same ISA bus, anyway? Yes, it will decrease
interrupt load, but won't it keep ISA bus busy -- this way
or another?
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 09:50:32 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA23371
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 09:50:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from home.winc.com (mgessner@home.winc.com [204.178.182.2])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23365
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 09:50:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from mgessner@localhost) by home.winc.com (8.7.1/8.7.3) id MAA24313 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 12:50:20 -0400
Message-Id: <199607031650.MAA24313@home.winc.com>
Subject: ZIP drives?
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org (FreeBSD Hardware)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 12:50:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: mgessner@winc.com
Organization: Aristar Software Development, Inc.
Reply-To: mgessner@winc.com
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi all,
Don't think I saw this anywhere..
Does FreeBSD 2.1.0 support IOMega ZIP drives (SCSI)?
TIA,
Matt
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 11:08:33 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04219
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 11:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04204
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 11:08:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from skipper.eng.umd.edu (skipper.eng.umd.edu [129.2.103.24]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09210; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:08:27 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by skipper.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA09516; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@Glue.umd.edu>
X-Sender: chuckr@skipper.eng.umd.edu
To: mgessner@winc.com
cc: FreeBSD Hardware <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: ZIP drives?
In-Reply-To: <199607031650.MAA24313@home.winc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960703140749.9357A-100000@skipper.eng.umd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Wed, 3 Jul 1996 mgessner@winc.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Don't think I saw this anywhere..
>
> Does FreeBSD 2.1.0 support IOMega ZIP drives (SCSI)?
The scsi interface one, yes. I don't think the parallel interface is
supported yet. I run a scsi one myself.
>
> TIA,
>
> Matt
>
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data
chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302 |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 13:32:15 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA23065
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 13:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA23029;
Wed, 3 Jul 1996 13:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA15101; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:27:05 +1000
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:27:05 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199607032027.GAA15101@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, cofer@www.cas.unt.edu,
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org, michaelv@HeadCandy.com
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
># I'm curious - why PCI?
> Something makes me beleive that if I want more than 16 ports
> at 115200 per box, there would be two bottlenecks:
> 1. tty-level driver overhead, that's what I'm watching
> now with 16 FIFOed ports in 486dx4/100 -- interrupt
> load is tiny, and most of CPU is eaten by system.
No, interrupt load is large. Serial hardware interrupt overheads (for
drivers with fast interrupt handlers like sio and cy) are not counted
because the drivers mask statclock interrupts. The overheads are added
to the overheads of whatever happens to be running when the serial
interrupts occur.
On a 486DX/2/66 with 16550s (non-multiport; add 25-33% to interrupt
overheads for multiport) or cd1400s, the overheads are approximately:
source overhead relative
------
serial interrupt overheads 3% per 11KB 1
system overheads for termios raw mode input 3.3 1
system overheads for cslip input 3.7 1+
system overheads for pppd input 6.1 2
system overheads for termios cooked mode input huge (50?) 16
The system overheads are easy to reduce by replacing the 486/33 with a
Pentium. The interrupt overheads are mostly I/O overheads so they are
hard to reduce because boards with fast I/O are hard to find.
> "Smart" card with it's own CPU (I treat it like
> an I/O co-processor) should minimize this factor. (?)
Only if the driver supports the smartness. This isn't easy, because the
upper tty layers want to do their own line discipline processing. None
of the FreeBSD serial drivers supports smartness.
> 2. ISA bus itself, no matter what will I put into it.
This is the main bottleneck on anything faster than a DX2/66, at least
if 8-bit I/O is used. The overheads for Comtrol RocketPorts would be
about half as small because RocketPorts support 16-bit I/O.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 13:51:23 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA24465
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 13:51:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24458
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 13:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA15967; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:47:36 +1000
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:47:36 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199607032047.GAA15967@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
># > 1. tty-level driver overhead, that's what I'm watching
># > now with 16 FIFOed ports in 486dx4/100 -- interrupt
># > load is tiny, and most of CPU is eaten by system.
># > "Smart" card with it's own CPU (I treat it like
># > an I/O co-processor) should minimize this factor. (?)
>#
># No. None of the 'smart' cards currently around perform any tty processing.
> Won't tty-level overhead decrease when the data flow through a port
> will be going in bigger chunks?
Only if 'smart' actually means 'fast' :-). 16550 output already has a
chunk size of 16 bytes. Since 8-bit ISA I/O is so slow, this size is
large enough to get most of the benefits of chunking. 16550 input is
about twice as slow (on >= 486's) as 16550 output because the status
register has to be read for every byte of input. The input chunk size
is large enough for the UART interface to become the bottleneck.
># > 2. ISA bus itself, no matter what will I put into it.
># > ... Yes, probably I'm
># > wrong and ISA can deal i.e. with 32x115200; but how
># > reliable will this configuration be?
>#
># This is a significant issue. 32x115200 is ~350K/sec. presuming 100%
># efficiency. IIRC, Bruce quoted more like 50%, so the ISA bus would be
You forgot output. 32x115200bps is ~700K/sec. 16 ports is already
350K/sec. This will take about 80% of the CPU for ISA I/O alone
(assuming 16550s and 2 I/O's per byte).
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Wed Jul 3 14:26:55 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA26797
for hardware-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (root@mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA26790
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA07503; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:26:40 +0200
Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id XAA04422; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:26:18 +0200
Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.Alpha.5/keltia-uucp-2.8) id XAA12294; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:23:29 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
Message-Id: <199607032123.XAA12294@keltia.freenix.fr>
Subject: Re: slow receive on WD8013EBT?
To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:23:29 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607030839.SAA09055@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from Michael Smith at "Jul 3, 96 06:09:55 pm"
X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2178
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
It seems that Michael Smith said:
> Got an odd one here; I have a WD8013EBT in a system that's misbehaving -
> it transmits just fine, but when receiving seems to only pick up one
> interrupt a second, meaning that it's Very Slow 8(
I got that as well a while ago. The card died a few months ago and all the
symptoms were the same. Sorry.
--
Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr
FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #12: Sun Jun 30 14:10:07 MET DST 1996
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 01:32:44 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA11914
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 01:32:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA11886;
Thu, 4 Jul 1996 01:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from sos@localhost) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA14526; Wed, 3 Jul 1996 15:46:33 +0200
Message-Id: <199607031346.PAA14526@ra.dkuug.dk>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 15:46:28 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: sos@FreeBSD.org, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, michaelv@HeadCandy.com,
cofer@www.cas.unt.edu, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org,
isp@FreeBSD.org
In-Reply-To: <199607031328.QAA02893@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Jul 3, 96 04:28:08 pm
From: sos@FreeBSD.org
Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.org
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In reply to Andrew V. Stesin who wrote:
>
> We have several MOXA C104+ (4 ports) and C128+ (8 ports)
> boards now, theyr'e with 16550 chips and are Ok with
> all channels at 57600, up to 16 channels per 486 box;
> FreeBSD performs flawlessly, no overloads or overruns.
> (Thanks to Bruce Evans and sio.c hackers!)
>
> So I should certainly add:
> simultaneous speed of 115200 on _all_ ports is required
> too -- otherwise, will I gain something better from this
> "smart" boards than I'm getting now from good old FIFOs?
Well, the reason I don't run the ONBoards faster is that they are
quite old, and cannot be programmed higher (I guess that was pretty
cool with 38400 in 1988 :). I belive some of their newer products
can handle 115200 if not more...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team
So much code to hack -- so little time.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 01:51:20 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA13108
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 01:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (acc0.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.132])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA12507;
Thu, 4 Jul 1996 01:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.129]) by uu.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA25714; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:04:31 +0300 (EET DST)
Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id MAA23321; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:04:30 +0300
From: "Andrew V. Stesin" <stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua>
Message-Id: <199607040904.MAA23321@office.elvisti.kiev.ua>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:04:30 +0300 (EET DST)
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <199607032027.GAA15101@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jul 4, 96 06:27:05 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
[... Cc: trimmed ...]
Thanks alot for the explanation, Bruce!
# source overhead relative
# ------
# serial interrupt overheads 3% per 11KB 1
# system overheads for termios raw mode input 3.3 1
# system overheads for cslip input 3.7 1+
# system overheads for pppd input 6.1 2
# system overheads for termios cooked mode input huge (50?) 16
#
# The system overheads are easy to reduce by replacing the 486/33 with a
# Pentium. The interrupt overheads are mostly I/O overheads so they are
# hard to reduce because boards with fast I/O are hard to find.
So an idea to get a PCI board seems to be pretty reasonable...
# > 2. ISA bus itself, no matter what will I put into it.
#
# This is the main bottleneck on anything faster than a DX2/66, at least
# if 8-bit I/O is used. The overheads for Comtrol RocketPorts would be
# about half as small because RocketPorts support 16-bit I/O.
Anyway, ISA is a dead-end, I think. (Consider the following:
16 ports seems to be an upper limit for ISA card at 8MHz, even if
it's 16bit "smart" one -- simply because it's ISA.
PCI has 33Mhz => 4 times faster,
it's a 32bit bus => add two times more. So PCI intellgent
card should be able to handle at least 8 times more ports
at full speed, => up to 128 ones! And just today I have
a headache -- we already have 16 ports busy on a dialup
server, what will I do when some 2 more lines will come?
Seems that getting a smart PCI serial device is the
easiest solution and a more reasonable investment than
a second server, considering added complexity of distributed
system).
# Bruce
#
--
With best regards -- Andrew Stesin.
Phones/fax: +380 (44) { 244-0122, 276-0188, 271-3457, 271-3560 }
"You may delegate authority, but not responsibility."
Frank's Management Rule #1.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 06:11:07 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25285
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:11:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from perseus.ultra.net (perseus.ultra.net [199.232.56.6])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25265;
Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from kbranco (d38.nbd.ma.ultra.net [146.115.57.38]) by perseus.ultra.net (8.7.4/dae0.6) with SMTP id JAA25358; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:10:57 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960704131341.006ffed0@ma.ultranet.com>
X-Sender: kbranco@ma.ultranet.com
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 09:13:41 -0400
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.com
From: Kenny <kbranco@ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: XFree86 and Cirrus CL-GD5434
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.com
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
While I am currently looking over all the docs I can find, I was hoping to
find someone who has made this combo work. The card has 1024K of memory. The
maximum resolution on the monitor is 1024 X 768. I am sure I put all the
right numbers into the xf86config setup. The display looks "out of
resolution" with thin streaks of black lines. I have FreeBSD 2.1 from the
CD. Thanks for the input!!
/Kenny/
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 06:24:59 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA25934
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:24:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.242.128.24])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25929
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dialup2-16.pavilion.co.uk (dialup2-16.pavilion.co.uk [194.242.131.144]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id OAA20892 for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:24:21 +0100 (BST)
Message-Id: <199607041324.OAA20892@deputy.pavilion.co.uk>
X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:24:39 +0100
To: hardware@freebsd.org
From: Aled Morris <aledm@routers.co.uk>
Subject: RNS quad Ethernet card
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Does the <A HREF="http://www.rns.com/specs/2340.html"> RNS Quad
Fast Ethernet adaptor </A> work with the "de" drivers in FreeBSD?
It features four 21140's and supports DMA (according to the web page).
I tried to find a DEC quad Ethernet card, but they don't seem to make
one (I'm sure I read about one sometime last year though).
SMC have a dual card, 10Mbps (anyone tried it?)
Aled
--
telephone +44 973 207987 O-
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 08:59:22 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA03379
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 08:59:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from flopsy.hobart.TASed.EDU.AU (root@flopsy.hobart.TASed.EDU.AU [147.41.41.100])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA03374
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 08:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (andrew@localhost) by flopsy.hobart.TASed.EDU.AU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA01211 for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:59:17 +1000 (EST)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 01:59:16 +1000 (EST)
From: Andrew <andrew@ugh.net.au>
Reply-To: Andrew <andrew@ugh.net.au>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Racal InterLan NI5210 and SCO drivers?
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.93.960705015219.1059C-100000@flopsy.hobart.TASed.EDU.AU>
X-wibble: WonK
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Hi All,
I have a Racal InterLan ethernet card type NI5210 (8 bit). It isnt in the
supported ethernet card list. I wondered (hoped :-) that this was an
ommision and it really was supported or that I could use some other driver
with it.
Racal have drivers for SCO available...Is there anyway I could use these?
Are there any things I could try?
Andrew
--
mango takes advantage of the lack of t on sendmail
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 09:14:09 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03980
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ptavv.nsta.org (ptavv.gfoster.com [199.0.2.254])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA03969
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from gfoster@localhost) by ptavv.nsta.org (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA00706; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:09:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Glen Foster <gfoster@gfoster.com>
Message-Id: <199607041609.MAA00706@ptavv.nsta.org>
To: aledm@routers.co.uk
CC: hardware@freebsd.org
In-reply-to: <199607041324.OAA20892@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> (message from Aled Morris on Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:24:39 +0100)
Subject: Re: RNS quad Ethernet card
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I am using a Znyx 4 port 10baseT card model 314 on 2.1R without
problems. They also have a four port 10/100 model 342 and 100 only
model 344. FCC: /Users/glen/Mailboxes/outgoing
ZNYX
48501 Warm Springs Blvd.
Suite 107
Fremont, CA 94539
510-249-0800
>Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:24:39 +0100
>From: Aled Morris <aledm@routers.co.uk>
>
>Does the <A HREF="http://www.rns.com/specs/2340.html"> RNS Quad
>Fast Ethernet adaptor </A> work with the "de" drivers in FreeBSD?
>
>It features four 21140's and supports DMA (according to the web page).
>
>I tried to find a DEC quad Ethernet card, but they don't seem to make
>one (I'm sure I read about one sometime last year though).
>
>SMC have a dual card, 10Mbps (anyone tried it?)
From owner-freebsd-hardware Thu Jul 4 09:35:40 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04972
for hardware-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from warp10.warp10.com ([207.6.190.2])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04965
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from matt.warp10.com by warp10.warp10.com via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
for <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG> id MAA09045; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:32:53 -0400
Received: by matt.warp10.com with Microsoft Mail
id <01BB69A5.21B2B1E0@matt.warp10.com>; Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:34:23 -0400
Message-ID: <01BB69A5.21B2B1E0@matt.warp10.com>
From: warp10 <matt@warp10.com>
To: "'freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG'" <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:34:20 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 03:47:21 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA07072
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 03:47:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA07049;
Fri, 5 Jul 1996 03:46:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA00165; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:36:58 +1000
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:36:58 +1000
From: Bruce Evans <bde@zeta.org.au>
Message-Id: <199607051036.UAA00165@godzilla.zeta.org.au>
To: bde@zeta.org.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, isp@freebsd.org
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> So an idea to get a PCI board seems to be pretty reasonable...
If the PCI interface is actually faster.
> Anyway, ISA is a dead-end, I think. (Consider the following:
> 16 ports seems to be an upper limit for ISA card at 8MHz, even if
> it's 16bit "smart" one -- simply because it's ISA.
> PCI has 33Mhz => 4 times faster,
> it's a 32bit bus => add two times more. So PCI intellgent
Only for 32bit peripherals. Not for 8-bit peripherals like 16550s and
cd1400s. These have at most 1/2 the bandwidth of the ISA bus because
they use only 1/2 its width. In practice they usually have only 1/5
the bandwidth of the ISA bus because they don't support insb/outsb.
> card should be able to handle at least 8 times more ports
> at full speed, => up to 128 ones! And just today I have
The software overhead would be too large for more than 32 or 64 *
115200 bps on a Pentium. Fortunately, modems can't sustain 115200 bps.
Bruce
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 05:26:57 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA12543
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 05:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com (emout15.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.41])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA12538
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 05:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: MichaelGoe@aol.com
Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA12324 for hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:27:24 -0400
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:27:24 -0400
Message-ID: <960705082724_149338311@emout15.mail.aol.com>
To: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Help with PAS16
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
I cannot get FreeBSD 2.1 to recognize my sound card.
I have these in the config.sys
controller snd0
device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 confilicts drq 6 vector pasintr
device sb0 at isa? prot 0x220 irq 5 conflicts drq 1 vectro sbintr
devise opl0 at isa? port 0x388 conflicts
options EXCLUDE_SBPRO
options "SBC_IRQ=5"
I added the conflicts foor the pas0 becuase I have a Mitsumi CD-rom on IRQ
10. As a mounted drive the cd-rom works fine. During boot-up, it does
recognize my sound card, however; using cdplayer it tells me that the device
is not configured, and with xcd it I get a broken pipe error.
I''ve spent days on this and any and all help would be appreciated.
Michael G.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 06:30:17 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id GAA16446
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 06:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shogun.tdktca.com ([206.26.1.21])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA16439
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 06:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from shogun.tdktca.com (daemon@localhost) by shogun.tdktca.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with ESMTP id IAA15334 for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:31:22 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from fa.tdktca.com (bsd.fa.tdktca.com [163.49.131.129]) by shogun.tdktca.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) with ESMTP id IAA15328 for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:31:21 -0500 (CDT)
Received: (from alex@localhost) by fa.tdktca.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA18218; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:33:25 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 08:33:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Alex Nash <alex@fa.tdktca.com>
To: MichaelGoe@aol.com
cc: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Help with PAS16
In-Reply-To: <960705082724_149338311@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960705083149.10943i-100000@fa.tdktca.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Fri, 5 Jul 1996 MichaelGoe@aol.com wrote:
> I cannot get FreeBSD 2.1 to recognize my sound card.
>
> I have these in the config.sys
> controller snd0
> device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 confilicts drq 6 vector pasintr
^^^^^^^^^^
> device sb0 at isa? prot 0x220 irq 5 conflicts drq 1 vectro sbintr
^^^^^^
> devise opl0 at isa? port 0x388 conflicts
^^^^^^
Was this a direct cut & paste, or a typo when you retyped it?
Alex
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 12:15:07 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA28451
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Vorlon.odc.net (nwestfal@Vorlon.odc.net [206.250.32.6])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28427
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:15:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from nwestfal@localhost) by Vorlon.odc.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id MAA29768; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:16:21 -0700
From: Neal Westfall <nwestfal@Vorlon.odc.net>
Message-Id: <199607051916.MAA29768@Vorlon.odc.net>
Subject: Re: Racal InterLan NI5210 and SCO drivers?
To: andrew@ugh.net.au
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:16:21 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.93.960705015219.1059C-100000@flopsy.hobart.TASed.EDU.AU> from "Andrew" at Jul 5, 96 01:59:16 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
The ie driver works with the NI5210, although when I used it at least
a year ago the driver didn't work very well, and I assume this driver
has not significantly changed in that time. Throughput was very slow.
About 56K/sec or so if I remember right. I remember getting much
better throughput when I put the card in a dos machine.
To be sure, it is not a very good card at all, and the best bet is
probably to replace them with some cheap NE2000 clones.
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a Racal InterLan ethernet card type NI5210 (8 bit). It isnt in the
> supported ethernet card list. I wondered (hoped :-) that this was an
> ommision and it really was supported or that I could use some other driver
> with it.
>
> Racal have drivers for SCO available...Is there anyway I could use these?
> Are there any things I could try?
>
> Andrew
> --
> mango takes advantage of the lack of t on sendmail
>
>
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 12:43:15 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04329
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04312
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 12:43:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA02847; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:40:57 -0400
Message-Id: <199607051940.PAA02847@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:06:38 +0930.
<199606291536.BAA21513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:40:54 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199606291536.BAA21513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>you write:
>Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying:
>>
>> Thanks for the information. But as I said in a recent message, the new TI
>> chip can go over 900Kbaud/sec. This isn't so fast. Its 1/10th the speed
>> of old ethernet and 1/100 of new 100 Mbit/sec ethernet.
>
>As I've already said, the 16550 will go faster. The problem is that the
>programming model for the 16550 makes no provision for more divider steps,
>and thus any software that wants to talk to either of these chips must be
>modified to understand the higher speeds.
>
>Quatech do a card called the DS-100 with a pair of PC16550D's and an 18MHz
>clock and a jumperable /1 /2 /5 /10 divider that will allow your to
>run your 16550 ports significantly faster.
>
>Unfortunately, they tried to implement the card properly, and as such
>we have had serious problems with the cards in fast (>486/33) machines.
It shouldn't be a hard thing. Simply build a fifo which has say a 1 Megabit
of memory on it (pretty cheap these days). It sends an interrupt if it goes
from full to not full or another if it reaches half full. If known by the
kernel not to be empty, empty it 25 times/second (if it was full at 10 MB/sec,
it would be emptied in 1/80th of a second.) That's fast, cheap, and will go
very fast. I'm not even hardware oriented, but can see that it wouldn't
be hard or difficult to build or program, and would support very fast I/O.
The reason current UARTs are always falling behind is poor design and poor
forethought into the even near future. The above could be vastly improved
by a hardware expert, but the technology or design ability isn't the problem.
Early UARTs had 1 or 2 bytes of buffering. Of course there would be trouble.
Memory is so cheap now and even ISDN with full compression (on a compressable
file) is so slow even to computers 10 years ago (look at ethernet). It came
standard on every Sun 3/50 or 2/50 (I think). Even 10 Mbit ethernet is 20
times faster than full ISDN with 4:1 compressable data being sent
(1/2 Mbit/sec) (very rare).
>Serial ports like that are intended as console ports or for debugging
>the system during development. Standard network design philosphy does
>not allow for compute servers to have heavy I/O. Look at the Encore
>Multimax for a good example of this; lots of compute, lots of disk &
>memory, but Encore built its serial I/O into a seperate box and called
>it an Annex.
Why do modems have to go on a seperate box if ethernet can easily and cheaply
be handled within the computer (even 100Mbit/sec ethernet) or 40 MB/sec SCSI-3
systems?
Again, its like DOS thinking "who would ever need over 640 Kbyte of RAM?".
Poor forethought and design is the problem.
>> The costs are $68 for my line install (cheaper, I think than my
>> analog second line) $25-35/month telco (about same as analog) about
>> $60 vs $20 for analog for unlimited usage. $.01/min/channel
>> (biggest problem. In southern CA, I have a friend who doesn't the
>> surcharge per minute on weekends and I think northern CA may be even
>> cheaper. $400 for "modem/terminal adapter" and Unix driver. (may be
>> lower in some places.
>
>Your americocentricity is appalling. In most of the civilised world,
>ISDN is still outrageously expensive.
I see. Its OK to criticize a message for being useless to people on "the
other side of the pond", yet a joke the other way is unacceptable to you.
>> I prefer to be able to get a contracted support policy, which I don't think
>> FreeBSD has. Therefore, I'm going with BSDI. I'd rather not be down for
>> a long time because of maintainer of a piece of code is on vacation for 3
>> weeks. BSDI has a paid for support contract which requires them to fix
>> things promptly for not much money.
>
>You should try talking to Karl Denninger (or perhaps just read his posts
>to the various FreeBSD lists) before you make the choice. Search for
>karl@mcs.net (or just mail him and ask).
I'm on this FreeBSD list and support it. Yet each OS has its pros and cons.
I think the warm feeling of having a supported OS is a very big pro. Maybe
you don't care. But considering a problem like 40 programmers trying to get
a Microvax II to run Unix for a month due to an unexpected problem
(since the Unix OS used an instruction that VMS didn't), or other bugs that
pass major Q/A tests, I'd like to know that there's a company standing behind
fixing problems. These bugs happen. If you care to try to fix it yourself
and do your normal work, your welcome to do so. I'll take support. That
also is my right.
FreeBSD has some good ideas. I'm not against it. But I have to choose an
OS to run and I think BSDI is a cost-efficient way to run Unix fast and has
some great programmers (as well as FreeBSD) doing the work and fixing bugs,
without other jobs that can't just be dropped if there's a major problem
in their code.
>> After being burned by it once, I've been careful since to avoid such problems.
>
>Your naivete' is touching.
Back to the personal insults. This is where I step off. I have better
things to do than act like elementary school kids trading insults. What's
next? "My daddy can beat up your daddy".
Jacob M. Parnas
>
>--
>]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
>]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
>]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
>]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 13:00:45 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05545
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:00:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from persprog.com (persprog.com [204.215.255.203])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA05532
for <hardware@freeBSD.ORG>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by persprog.com (8.7.5/4.10)
id OAA08992; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:54:41 -0500
Received: from novell(192.2.2.201) by cerberus.ppi.com via smap (V1.3)
id sma008990; Fri Jul 5 15:54:32 1996
Received: from NOVELL/SpoolDir by novell.persprog.com (Mercury 1.12);
Fri, 5 Jul 96 15:51:03 +0500
Received: from SpoolDir by NOVELL (Mercury 1.12); Fri, 5 Jul 96 15:50:53 +0500
From: "David Alderman" <dave@persprog.com>
Organization: Personalized Programming, Inc.
To: hardware@freeBSD.ORG, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:50:50 EST
Subject: Re: slow receive on WD8013EBT?
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.31)
Message-ID: <14D516F49@novell.persprog.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> From: Ollivier Robert <roberto@keltia.freenix.fr>
> It seems that Michael Smith said:
> > Got an odd one here; I have a WD8013EBT in a system that's misbehaving -
> > it transmits just fine, but when receiving seems to only pick up one
> > interrupt a second, meaning that it's Very Slow 8(
>
> I got that as well a while ago. The card died a few months ago and all the
> symptoms were the same. Sorry.
I had a similar problem a long time ago - it seems the shared memory
on the board was showing up at multiple locations in the memory map
intermittently. My advice is get a new card.
======================================
When philosophy conflicts with reality, choose reality.
Dave Alderman -- dave@persprog.com
======================================
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 13:03:28 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA05680
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05671
for <freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA02903; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:02:33 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052002.QAA02903@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: mrm@sceard.com (M.R.Murphy)
cc: freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org, admin@ftcnet.com,
mrm@marmot.mole.org
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000?
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 07:50:18 PDT.
<9606290750.AA17683@Sceard.COM>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:02:30 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <9606290750.AA17683@Sceard.COM>you write:
>>was Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
>>On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote:
>>
>>> >> I'm confused. I thought the 16550 was good up to 115,200 baud, but when
>>> >> ISDN eventually takes over with compression, ~512kbaud will be the norm.
>>> >> I don't know if they can handle that...
>>> >
>>> The TI 17550 can go up to 900kbaud/second, which is a new UART.
>>>
>>> I've seen a PC Card that costs $199-$319 depending on who you are,
>>> and it does everything with a UART on top (the software driver for
>>> BSDI will be $95.
>>
>>I'm having trouble with receive overruns with the 115.2 Kb/s news
>>feed from the new Pagesat HS-2000. I'm using a Lava ISA 16C550-
>>based com port on a 486DX4-100, 64 MB RAM, BSDI V2.1 news server.
>>I talked to 'Mike' at Pagesat who recommended a DOS-based PC as
>>a dedicated input spooler which would then feed the BSDI news
>>server.
>> This seems like an extravagant 'kludge'. I checked
>>around a found a couple of external serial buffer boxes, but
>>they wouldn't work faster than 38.4 Kb/s. CyberResearch has
>>a hi-speed buffered serial card, but it's designed for output
>>spooling.
>> I think what I need is a hi-speed buffered input serial
>>card that's compatible with the Pagesat psfrx program. I think
>>16 or 32 bytes of FIFO is not nearly enough since the Pagesat
>>data receiver does no flow control. Ideas, suggestions or product
>>source would be welcome.
>>
>>Bernard Klatt Owner Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. www.ftcnet.com
Have you tried looking at buffered boards? There are a lot for PC boards.
And some are cheap and work very well.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 13:15:53 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA06588
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06578;
Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA02945; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:14:55 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052014.QAA02945@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: Gary Palmer <gpalmer@freebsd.org>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:30:28 EDT.
<Pine.3.89.9606291403.B10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:14:52 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.3.89.9606291403.B10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>you write:
>> I thought the question was on what to expect from UARTS for high speed
>> applications. I think Henry suggested using a local ethernet to connect to
>> a ISP ethernet <-> ethernet<->ethernet WAN ISDN connection or high
>> speed modem <-> home ethernet.
>
>Just to clarify... My suggestion is that you do not want a high-speed
>application which looks like a UART to the software, at all, ever. You
>want high-speed applications to come in via Ethernet, so your software
>is dealing with a packet at a time rather than a character at a time.
>It's worth the overhead of having to set up a 0.5m-long Ethernet, which
>is fairly trivial nowadays.
>
>Yes, there are people who build high-speed interfaces that look like
>UARTs, and they can be cheaper than the ones that sit on the other side
>of an Ethernet. You get what you pay for.
>
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
You haven't said anything substitive. If it works perfectly, why not use a
USR Sportster ISDN 128 Terminal Adapter and Unix driver for $400 when the
ethernet connection (from home to other side) costs $1, 000 or so. You that's
not counting the ethernet stuff.
I just don't see paying so much money for no proven benefit.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 13:25:41 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA07377
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07372
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 13:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA02980; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:24:51 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052024.QAA02980@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:38:32 EDT.
<Pine.3.89.9606291453.C10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:24:49 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.3.89.9606291453.C10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>you write:
>> Also, why add an ethernet to the home system, when really you usually just
>> want a point to point connection from your house to the ISP, a route from
>> your home computer to the ISP and a route from the ISP to any default request,
>> and don't have any need for a local LAN?
>
>Why *not* add an Ethernet to the home system? It's a cheap and simple way
>to get an efficient high-speed connection into your machine. The key is
>to stop thinking of Ethernet as an expensive LAN, and start thinking of it
>as a fast alternative to RS232. A 10BaseT Ethernet card and a crossover
>cable is a cheap and easy way to connect *even* *just* *one* high-speed
>device to your PC. Would you add a serial port for such a purpose? If
>not, then why not add an Ethernet port instead? It's a lot better and not
>much more expensive.
>
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
Well, for instance, the ethernet <-> ethernet connections cost about $1000
vs. $400 or so for the ISA card. Please tell me a solution that will go
up to 512 Kbaud/sec with standard BSDI and compression for $400. Ascend,
Cisco, etc cards cost $1000+ by themselves, from what I've seen.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 14:09:11 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11442
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:09:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11433;
Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA03128; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:08:21 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052108.RAA03128@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: Gary Palmer <gpalmer@freebsd.org>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 29 Jun 1996 14:30:28 EDT.
<Pine.3.89.9606291403.B10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:08:18 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.3.89.9606291403.B10167-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>you write:
>> I thought the question was on what to expect from UARTS for high speed
>> applications. I think Henry suggested using a local ethernet to connect to
>> a ISP ethernet <-> ethernet<->ethernet WAN ISDN connection or high
>> speed modem <-> home ethernet.
>
>Just to clarify... My suggestion is that you do not want a high-speed
>application which looks like a UART to the software, at all, ever. You
>want high-speed applications to come in via Ethernet, so your software
>is dealing with a packet at a time rather than a character at a time.
>It's worth the overhead of having to set up a 0.5m-long Ethernet, which
>is fairly trivial nowadays.
>
>Yes, there are people who build high-speed interfaces that look like
>UARTs, and they can be cheaper than the ones that sit on the other side
>of an Ethernet. You get what you pay for.
>
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
Once again, the problem is the cost and the end result. There's no reason
that one needs to handle a packet at a time. And a card like the Sportster
ISDN 128 K terminal server does not load the computer much. I believe it
handles a lot of PPP stuff internally, but I'm not sure. But regardless,
I haven't heard of why that solution wouldn't work well.
What do you get in the $1000+ system you propose that you don't get in
the solution I proposed? I don't see it. Maybe if you had a complicated
net at home the router might help, but for normal cases calling from home
with one or two computers I don't see the loss.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 14:14:21 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11871
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11860;
Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA03152; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 17:13:29 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052113.RAA03152@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: bbecker@flubber.futurecomm.com
cc: Gary Palmer <gpalmer@freebsd.org>, Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>,
hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 30 Jun 1996 02:53:22 EDT.
<Pine.LNX.3.93.960630023324.929A-100000@flubber.futurecomm.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:13:26 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.LNX.3.93.960630023324.929A-100000@flubber.futurecomm.com>you write:
>On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Gary Palmer wrote:
>
>> > Why connect at high speeds with a UART: money. Most ethernet solutions
>> > cost well over $1000 not counting the ethernet hardware which may not be at
---------------------------------------------
>> > home. (card, tranceiver or hub, cables, etc). I've seen a PC Card that
>> > costs $199-$319 depending on who you are, and it does everything with a UART
>> > on top (the software driver for BSDI will be $95. So, how does $400 sound to
>>
>> I'm sorry? I cabled and equipped a LAN at home for less than $1000,
>> for 3 machines (2 PC's, and one `other') (admittedly 10b2, not 10bT
>> which is what I would go for today).
>
>Figuring the price of cheap ethernet cards to be under $40US, you should
>be able (today) to connect 3 machines for something like $200US including
>the cost of wire and rj-45 connecters. For a network that small, you can
>get away with not having a hub.
>
>You get away with no hub by swapping the RX and TX pairs on the cables
>connecting one box to another. Of course one of the boxes has to have two
>cards, and it also has to be able to route packets between the other two
>boxes. (Since this is 'bsdi-users', i'm presuming that a BSDI box would
>be filling that role).
>
>But the price of hubs has dropped dramatically. An Accton 8-port 10bt hub
>is something like $125 if i'm not mistaken. A little black thing about
>the size of the lizard book. If you prefer white, you can get the same
>hub from 3Com,
>
>Bill
How much is the ethernet <-> ethernet connection. The ones I've seen are
around $1000, not considering other equipment.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 14:18:16 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12065
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12060
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 14:18:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03102; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 16:59:51 -0400
Message-Id: <199607052059.QAA03102@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>
cc: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:45:08 +0900.
<Pine.SV4.3.93.960630083916.8677B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 16:59:47 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <Pine.SV4.3.93.960630083916.8677B-100000@parkplace.cet.co.jp>you write:
>On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> This is just stupid. Look at the huge installed base of 14k and 28k
>> modems, and the phenomenal cost of ISDN services in most of the world.
>
>Japan is one of the places where it's relatively cheap. Of course the
>cost of using a regular telephone line is outrageous compared to what
>we are used to in the US.
>
>mike
Things will change. Remember how expensive V.34 or V.fast was at first,
or CD's or calculators, or digital watches, or P6 processors? When they
were announced, the 200 Mhz ones were $1325 in Quant. 1000. I've recently
seen the same thing for about $750, just about 9 months later.
Yes, today ISDN is expensive. But I heard that in some parts of California
ISDN costs the same as regular analog phones. This will spread. Things are
not static, and just as I'm sure the designers of UARTs that couldn't go
faster than 19200 baud reliably even after problems with earlier ones and the
relatively low cost of much faster ones, felt that they were doing the best,
but for analog modems, most good connections these days are at 115, 200 baud.
So while ISDN isn't mainstream today that doesn't mean it won't be soon.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 15:56:15 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA17949
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu (po1.glue.umd.edu [129.2.128.44])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17944
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:56:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from downlink.eng.umd.edu (downlink.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.182]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01711; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by downlink.eng.umd.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA14156; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:52:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chuck Robey <chuckr@Glue.umd.edu>
X-Sender: chuckr@downlink.eng.umd.edu
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
cc: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>,
Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-Reply-To: <199607052059.QAA03102@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960705185035.13527D-100000@downlink.eng.umd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Fri, 5 Jul 1996, Jacob M. Parnas wrote:
> Things will change. Remember how expensive V.34 or V.fast was at first,
> or CD's or calculators, or digital watches, or P6 processors? When they
> were announced, the 200 Mhz ones were $1325 in Quant. 1000. I've recently
> seen the same thing for about $750, just about 9 months later.
>
> Yes, today ISDN is expensive. But I heard that in some parts of California
> ISDN costs the same as regular analog phones. This will spread. Things are
> not static, and just as I'm sure the designers of UARTs that couldn't go
> faster than 19200 baud reliably even after problems with earlier ones and the
> relatively low cost of much faster ones, felt that they were doing the best,
> but for analog modems, most good connections these days are at 115, 200 baud.
>
> So while ISDN isn't mainstream today that doesn't mean it won't be soon.
You're forgetting that while the price of a P6-200 is determined by
technology and competition, the price of telephone service is determined
by the PUC and local political goals. Your prediction is not on
completely firm ground. It might actually happen, but I sure wouldn't
bet on it.
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data
chuckr@eng.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
9120 Edmonston Ct #302 |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and n3lxx, both FreeBSD
(301) 220-2114 | version 2.2 current -- and great FUN!
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 18:55:23 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA26903
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26890
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 18:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2)
id PAA28087; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:54:59 -1001
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 15:54:59 -1001
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Message-Id: <199607060155.PAA28087@pegasus.com>
In-Reply-To: Chuck Robey <chuckr@Glue.umd.edu>
"Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server" (Jul 5, 6:52pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server [ISDN]
} > Yes, today ISDN is expensive. But I heard that in some parts of California
} > ISDN costs the same as regular analog phones. This will spread. Things are
} > not static, and just as I'm sure the designers of UARTs that couldn't go
} > faster than 19200 baud reliably even after problems with earlier ones and the
} > relatively low cost of much faster ones, felt that they were doing the best,
} > but for analog modems, most good connections these days are at 115, 200 baud.
} >
} > So while ISDN isn't mainstream today that doesn't mean it won't be soon.
}
} You're forgetting that while the price of a P6-200 is determined by
} technology and competition, the price of telephone service is determined
} by the PUC and local political goals. Your prediction is not on
} completely firm ground. It might actually happen, but I sure wouldn't
} bet on it.
Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
Keep your eye on the cable companies.
Richard
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 19:23:20 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00171
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00161
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:23:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: MichaelGoe@aol.com
Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA29473; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:23:51 -0400
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:23:51 -0400
Message-ID: <960705222348_570731723@emout14.mail.aol.com>
To: alex@fa.tdktca.com
cc: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Help with PAS16
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In a message dated 96-07-05 09:30:43 EDT, you write:
<< > controller snd0
> device pas0 at isa? port 0x388 irq 10 confilicts drq 6 vector pasintr
^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
This is actual per the manual. I added the conflicts becuase
of the CD-rom<to see if that was the problem>
Michael G.
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 19:25:47 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA00381
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com (emout17.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.43])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00369
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 19:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: MichaelGoe@aol.com
Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA21450; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:26:06 -0400
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 22:26:06 -0400
Message-ID: <960705222337_570731594@emout17.mail.aol.com>
To: alex@fa.tdktca.com
cc: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Help with PAS16
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In a message dated 96-07-05 09:30:43 EDT, you write:
<< > device sb0 at isa? prot 0x220 irq 5 conflicts drq 1 vectro sbintr
^^^^^^
This one is actual ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> devise opl0 at isa? port 0x388 conflicts
^^^^^^
This one is a typo <smurk>
Was this a direct cut & paste, or a typo when you retyped it?
Alex
>>
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 21:26:22 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA10435
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10428
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:26:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA04659; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 00:23:28 -0400
Message-Id: <199607060423.AAA04659@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: Chuck Robey <chuckr@glue.umd.edu>
cc: Michael Hancock <michaelh@cet.co.jp>,
Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:52:49 EDT.
<Pine.OSF.3.91.960705185035.13527D-100000@downlink.eng.umd.edu>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 00:23:24 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>You're forgetting that while the price of a P6-200 is determined by
>technology and competition, the price of telephone service is determined
>by the PUC and local political goals. Your prediction is not on
>completely firm ground. It might actually happen, but I sure wouldn't
>bet on it.
Actually, (NYNEX)our local phone company is being opened to competition and
long distance has been for a long time.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 21:30:18 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA10729
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10724
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 21:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id AAA04705; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 00:29:23 -0400
Message-Id: <199607060429.AAA04705@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:54:59 -1001.
<199607060155.PAA28087@pegasus.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 00:29:20 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199607060155.PAA28087@pegasus.com>you write:
>Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
>it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
>
>Keep your eye on the cable companies.
>
>
>Richard
Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Fri Jul 5 23:55:03 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA23003
for hardware-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pegasus.com (pegasus.com [140.174.243.13])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22986
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 23:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by pegasus.com (8.6.8/PEGASUS-2.2)
id UAA29144; Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:53:31 -1000
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 1996 20:53:31 -1000
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Message-Id: <199607060653.UAA29144@pegasus.com>
In-Reply-To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
"" (Jul 6, 12:29am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
} >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
} >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
} >
} >Keep your eye on the cable companies.
} >
} >
} >Richard
}
} Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
} you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
} as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
Slow compared to what?
There are a few different configurations. Eight megabits in, three
megabits out is one. Still way faster than other modes, even on the
slower half. As far as I know, the slowest slow in cable modems is
still fast.
Our cable company here in Honolulu is apparently going to use modems that
provide 6Mb in both directions. The promise is $50/month. The cable
modem connects to your ethernet. The cable company is becoming an ISP,
in a big way.
Imagine how that kind of throughput could change the landscape.
Richard
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 03:22:53 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA16137
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 03:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16131
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 03:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA23745; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:42:43 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607061012.TAA23745@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: muliport boards - building a PPP dialup server
To: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net (Jacob M. Parnas)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:42:42 +0930 (CST)
Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua,
Kevin_Swanson@blacksmith.com, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <199607051940.PAA02847@jparnas.cybercom.net> from "Jacob M. Parnas" at Jul 5, 96 03:40:54 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Jacob M. Parnas stands accused of saying:
> >
> >Quatech do a card called the DS-100 with a pair of PC16550D's and an 18MHz
> >clock and a jumperable /1 /2 /5 /10 divider that will allow your to
> >run your 16550 ports significantly faster.
> >
> >Unfortunately, they tried to implement the card properly, and as such
> >we have had serious problems with the cards in fast (>486/33) machines.
>
> It shouldn't be a hard thing. Simply build a fifo which has say a 1
> Megabit of memory on it (pretty cheap these days). It sends an
> interrupt if it goes from full to not full or another if it reaches
> half full. If known by the kernel not to be empty, empty it 25
> times/second (if it was full at 10 MB/sec, it would be emptied in
> 1/80th of a second.) That's fast, cheap, and will go very fast.
> I'm not even hardware oriented, but can see that it wouldn't be hard
> or difficult to build or program, and would support very fast I/O.
Out of the mouths of babes - Jacob, it's _blindingly_obvious_ that you
don't know spit about hardware. Attempting to discuss this with you
would be like trying to talk existentialism with a donkey.
Or do you honestly believe that you, with your self-avowed lack of
hardware orientation, can come up with something that hasn't been done
before? Are you _really_ that concieted?
> Back to the personal insults. This is where I step off. I have better
> things to do than act like elementary school kids trading insults. What's
> next? "My daddy can beat up your daddy".
Jacob; you butt in on a discussion brandishing your swollen ignorance
and your myopic perspecive in everyone's face, and then burst into
tears when this is pointed out to you. There is nothing 'mature' in
this attitude, so I can't see what you're complaining about.
> Jacob M. Parnas
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 03:30:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id DAA16467
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 03:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA16439
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 03:30:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA23787; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:52:49 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607061022.TAA23787@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:52:49 +0930 (CST)
Cc: jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net, hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <199607060653.UAA29144@pegasus.com> from "Richard Foulk" at Jul 5, 96 08:53:31 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Richard Foulk stands accused of saying:
>
> Our cable company here in Honolulu is apparently going to use modems that
> provide 6Mb in both directions. The promise is $50/month. The cable
> modem connects to your ethernet. The cable company is becoming an ISP,
> in a big way.
Yeah, right. And what fraction of their available bandwidth will you
get? Who cares how fast your pipe to _them_ is, what's theirs to the
rest of the world? And how many people do you have to share it with?
> Richard
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 07:59:43 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18002
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 07:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17997
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 10:58:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
Subject: cable vs. ISDN
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
cc: Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <199607060429.AAA04705@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607061043.A22356-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
> >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
>
> Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
> you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
> as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
Depends on how good your local cable system is. The cable-data system
that Rogers Cable is introducing in the Toronto area is two-way (with
symmetrical bandwidth, amazingly enough, or at least that's the way it was
in the prototype system).
Incidentally, harking back to the original theme of this discussion :-),
the hardware used for the Rogers prototype talked to the computers by
Ethernet.
Henry Spencer
henry@zoo.toronto.edu
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 08:27:27 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA19196
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from deputy.pavilion.co.uk (deputy.pavilion.co.uk [194.242.128.24])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19189
for <freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 08:27:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dialup2-62.pavilion.co.uk (dialup2-62.pavilion.co.uk [194.242.131.190]) by deputy.pavilion.co.uk (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id QAA08274; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 16:26:44 +0100 (BST)
Message-Id: <199607061526.QAA08274@deputy.pavilion.co.uk>
X-Sender: aledm@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 16:27:05 +0100
To: freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org, admin@ftcnet.com,
mrm@marmot.mole.org
From: Aled Morris <aledm@routers.co.uk>
Subject: USB (was Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000?)
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
All this talk of high speed serial and no one has mentioned USB?
It's built in to the new Intel PCI chipsets, which you can already buy
in motherboards. A bit expensive today (double Triton price?), but they
will be entry-level in no time.
I'm sure with Intel's blessing the modem/TA people will be supporting it.
Aled
--
telephone +44 973 207987 O-
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 08:55:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA20783
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 08:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20778
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 08:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA18849; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 11:54:57 -0400
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 11:54:57 -0400
From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199607061554.LAA18849@crh.cl.msu.edu>
To: henry@zoo.toronto.edu, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hardware
References: <4rm15o$f5k@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV)
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In lists.freebsd.hardware you write:
>> >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
>> >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
>>
>> Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
>> you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
>> as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
>Depends on how good your local cable system is. The cable-data system
>that Rogers Cable is introducing in the Toronto area is two-way (with
>symmetrical bandwidth, amazingly enough, or at least that's the way it was
>in the prototype system).
>Incidentally, harking back to the original theme of this discussion :-),
>the hardware used for the Rogers prototype talked to the computers by
>Ethernet.
I've been using Cable networking for almost a year now here in East Lansing, MI
(TCI Cable), and its symmetrical 10Mbps, usually I get an effective throughput
rate of about 200KBytes/sec both ways.
You can keep your 11K/sec ISDN :)
-Crh
--
Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu
http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 09:11:50 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA21637
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 09:11:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA21632
for <freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 09:11:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA24296; Sun, 7 Jul 1996 01:34:38 +0930
From: Michael Smith <msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199607061604.BAA24296@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: USB (was Re: Hi-speed serial input for Pagesat HS-2000?)
To: aledm@routers.co.uk (Aled Morris)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 01:34:38 +0930 (CST)
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freefall.freebsd.org, admin@ftcnet.com,
mrm@marmot.mole.org
In-Reply-To: <199607061526.QAA08274@deputy.pavilion.co.uk> from "Aled Morris" at Jul 6, 96 04:27:05 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
Aled Morris stands accused of saying:
>
> All this talk of high speed serial and no one has mentioned USB?
>
It hasn't been hyped yet, so the clueless nothings haven't heard about
it, and those of us that have the spec have probably realised that
nobody is going to be rushing to produce hardware to talk to it in the
same price bracket as either async modem/TA's, or in the first
instance Ethernet units.
The code and hardware to talk USB aren't significantly simpler or
cheaper than the same components for Ethernet, and everything can talk
ethernet, wheras only a very small number of Intel-based PC's talk
USB. I see no competition in the short to medium timeframe.
If you haven't retrieved and read _carefully_ the USB spec, I'd suggest
doing so before swallowing the dribble about it being the be-all and
end-all of desktop interfaces. The lack of small silicon for target
applications at this stage is very worrying too; I'd much prefer to go
with one of (say) Crystal's new single-chip Ethernet solutions.
> Aled
--
]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[
]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[
]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[
]] Collector of old Unix hardware. "Where are your PEZ?" The Tick [[
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 12:42:00 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA01297
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 12:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from adams.berk.net (root@adams.berk.net [205.230.140.10])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01292
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 12:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from adams.bcn.net (timmy@draco.berk.net [205.230.140.190]) by adams.berk.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA24782; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 15:42:01 -0400
Message-ID: <31DEC1C7.8BC@bcn.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:43:03 -0400
From: Tim Alibozek <timmy@bcn.net>
Reply-To: timmy@bcn.net
Organization: Berkshire County Network
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
CC: Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN (fwd)
References: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960706153708.28898A-100000@adams.berk.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>
> > >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
> > >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
> >
> > Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
> > you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
> > as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
>
> Depends on how good your local cable system is. The cable-data system
> that Rogers Cable is introducing in the Toronto area is two-way (with
> symmetrical bandwidth, amazingly enough, or at least that's the way it was
> in the prototype system).
>
> Incidentally, harking back to the original theme of this discussion :-),
> the hardware used for the Rogers prototype talked to the computers by
> Ethernet.
>
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
I just got back from Montreal and from what I understand...the modern part
of Montreal have bi-directional 256k/256k cable modems and the not so modern parts
of Montreal have bi-directional 256k/72k cable modems.
--
Tim Alibozek | The Berkshire County Network
System Administrator | A full service Internet Service Provider
EMail: timmy@bcn.net | Serving Berkshire County and beyond
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 15:53:41 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA09378
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 15:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jparnas.cybercom.net (jparnas.cybercom.net [206.28.135.58])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09373
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 15:53:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.cybercom.net (localhost.cybercom.net [127.0.0.1]) by jparnas.cybercom.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA07299; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 18:52:39 -0400
Message-Id: <199607062252.SAA07299@jparnas.cybercom.net>
X-Authentication-Warning: jparnas.cybercom.net: Host localhost.cybercom.net didn't use HELO protocol
To: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
cc: hardware@freebsd.org, bsdi-users@bsdi.com
X-External-Networks: yes
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 05 Jul 1996 20:53:31 -1000.
<199607060653.UAA29144@pegasus.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 18:52:37 -0400
From: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In message <199607060653.UAA29144@pegasus.com>you write:
>} >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
>} >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
>} >
>} >Keep your eye on the cable companies.
>} >
>} >
>} >Richard
>}
>} Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
>} you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
>} as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
>
>Slow compared to what?
Well, what were we comparing it to? ISDN.
>There are a few different configurations. Eight megabits in, three
>megabits out is one. Still way faster than other modes, even on the
>slower half. As far as I know, the slowest slow in cable modems is
>still fast.
But I think if you research carefully its receive only. Send must be done
through some other channel like a V.34+ modem.
>Our cable company here in Honolulu is apparently going to use modems that
>provide 6Mb in both directions. The promise is $50/month. The cable
>modem connects to your ethernet. The cable company is becoming an ISP,
>in a big way.
Is it bidirectional (ie can you send) or does that have to go through some
other channel?
>Imagine how that kind of throughput could change the landscape.
Well, that's in theory. If it was widely marketed at that price and
bidirectional, that 3-8 mbits/second, Usually without putting a whole new
set of cables underground (or above), its bandwidth would be split by many
users and the for 1000 users, on average, that's the same as 3-8 Kbits per
second. And if you have to move, you may be out of luck.
>Richard
>
Jacob
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 17:40:30 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA13833
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 17:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13828
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 17:40:27 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:10:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>
cc: Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <199607062252.SAA07299@jparnas.cybercom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607062047.A3852-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> >Our cable company here in Honolulu is apparently going to use modems that
> >provide 6Mb in both directions. The promise is $50/month. The cable
> >modem connects to your ethernet. The cable company is becoming an ISP,
> >in a big way.
>
> Is it bidirectional (ie can you send) or does that have to go through some
> other channel?
That's what people are trying to tell you: CABLE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE
ONE-WAY. When he says "both directions", he really does mean both, as in
bidirectional.
Some places with old cable systems are stuck with unidirectional
transmission, and that means going the other way by phone modem, which
is marginally satisfactory at best. Modern cable systems can do better.
> ...that 3-8 mbits/second, Usually without putting a whole new
> set of cables underground (or above), its bandwidth would be split by many
> users and the for 1000 users, on average, that's the same as 3-8 Kbits per
> second...
The bandwidth is indeed split, but the question of "by how many users"
does not have a simple answer -- it depends on what the cable company has
done. Note that the splitting is *not*, in general, over the entire
metropolitan area -- the cable company can and does subdivide. The folks
in the Rogers Toronto-area experiment say that the net effective data rate
did vary depending on load, but it was always a lot faster than phone
modems.
> And if you have to move, you may be out of luck.
ISDN has the same problem.
Henry Spencer
henry@zoo.toronto.edu
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 19:16:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA17907
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:16:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17885
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21160; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:15:25 -0600
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:15:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>,
Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9607061043.A22356-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960706201052.21047A-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
All this talk about Cable modems. i Really dont think there such a great
idea.
Think about this:
(btw: this comment is not to spark an arguement, but point out why i
dilike the idea)
well, First Off,if cable modems were around, ISP's wouldnt be, because
the Cable company has taken over the business. plus, they CLAIM everyone
will have 10mbps per house hold, well, considering that theres not thaty
much bandwidth to waste for a bunch of web browsing crowd, and they say
that there will only be 128k recieve, but 10mbps send. now thats strange.
*I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
that then they would have a monopoly.
See YA,
Joel Yancey
On Sat, 6 Jul 1996, Henry Spencer wrote:
> > >Cable has a good chance of blowing ISDN away. Much faster and cheaper. And
> > >it will be available in many places this year. More, next.
> >
> > Cable is a pain. It works only one way. If you want to send a large file
> > you still have to go slow. And, you still need to be a member of a ISP
> > as you can't write to cable, from what I've read.
>
> Depends on how good your local cable system is. The cable-data system
> that Rogers Cable is introducing in the Toronto area is two-way (with
> symmetrical bandwidth, amazingly enough, or at least that's the way it was
> in the prototype system).
>
> Incidentally, harking back to the original theme of this discussion :-),
> the hardware used for the Rogers prototype talked to the computers by
> Ethernet.
>
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
>
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 20:31:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA21337
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from circle.net (demeter.circle.net [207.79.160.41])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21331
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from troy@localhost) by circle.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA16244; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:31:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Troy Arie Cobb <troy@circle.net>
To: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960706201052.21047A-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960706232528.16197B-100000@demeter.circle.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
All questions/issues of bandwidth aside, the real issue
as I see it w/ cable networking is that it is BROADCAST
ethernet. That is, every one in your cable-division (i.e.
all of those houses connected to the same switch
as you are) will get the same packets. Drop a wee little
packet sniffer on your own line and BOOM, you can find out
what the Jones' down the street are surfing to, emailing to,
etc. *shudder*
Of course, the natural response would be: What about encryption?
Know of any machine that can handle destination-based encryption on
the fly, fast enough to support 10MB/s?
These are, I think, the real issues. Sure, bidirectional cable
is provably possible. But the security of the technology is
abominable. And of course, the cable folks will probably screw it
all up. So, take heart ISPs! Just be ready to move quickly, who knows
when your local cable company might want to buy their access thru you?
Or consulting, too... :)
Just my $.02
- troy
Troy Arie Cobb
troy@circle.net
------------------------------------------------------
| Circle Net, Inc. | global internet access |
| http://www.circle.net | for western north carolina |
| info@circle.net | and beyond... |
| 704-254-9500 | |
------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 20:50:04 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA22266
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from zoo.toronto.edu (zoo.toronto.edu [128.100.72.1])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22231
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 20:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:49:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
To: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>
cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960706201052.21047A-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607062351.D8437-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
> well, First Off,if cable modems were around, ISP's wouldnt be, because
> the Cable company has taken over the business...
Most of the small ISPs are not long for this world anyway, because they're
about to get competition from the local phone companies. The people who
own the existing wires have a powerful natural advantage, and there's just
no getting around that.
> plus, they CLAIM everyone
> will have 10mbps per house hold, well, considering that theres not thaty
> much bandwidth to waste for a bunch of web browsing crowd, and they say
> that there will only be 128k recieve, but 10mbps send. now thats strange.
Not really. For one thing, the 128k/10M split is just an oddity of *your*
local cable system -- the better-equipped ones are talking about symmetrical
bandwidth. For another, the cable company has *lots* of bandwidth available
in their wiring; it's just a matter of the electronics on each end. Of
course, in the end, it will boil down to you paying higher fees if you want
higher bandwidth.
> *I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
> really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
> that then they would have a monopoly.
What do you think of phone companies? It may come down to a choice of two
evils. As I said above: they own the wires, so there's not a lot of
room to maneuver. If you don't like monopolies, start lobbying now for
competitive cable and phone services.
Henry Spencer
henry@zoo.toronto.edu
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 21:45:03 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id VAA25045
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 21:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from crh.cl.msu.edu (crh.cl.msu.edu [35.8.1.24])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25036
for <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 21:45:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from henrich@localhost) by crh.cl.msu.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA22350; Sun, 7 Jul 1996 00:45:00 -0400
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 00:45:00 -0400
From: Charles Henrich <henrich@crh.cl.msu.edu>
Message-Id: <199607070445.AAA22350@crh.cl.msu.edu>
To: troy@circle.net, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
Newsgroups: lists.freebsd.hardware
References: <4rne79$v0a@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #3 (NOV)
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
In lists.freebsd.hardware you write:
>Know of any machine that can handle destination-based encryption on
>the fly, fast enough to support 10MB/s?
>These are, I think, the real issues. Sure, bidirectional cable
>is provably possible. But the security of the technology is
>abominable. And of course, the cable folks will probably screw it
>all up. So, take heart ISPs! Just be ready to move quickly, who knows
>when your local cable company might want to buy their access thru you?
>Or consulting, too... :)
Think people! I have one of these things, its a filtering *bridge* I dont get
packets im not sposed to get, and thats how it works. Now if I can spoof the
hardware and take it over then yes, I can snoop. Okay on to encryption,
ever hear of SSH?! Cripes, ssh is virtually transparent and fast as hell!
-Crh
--
Charles Henrich Michigan State University henrich@msu.edu
http://pilot.msu.edu/~henrich
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 22:20:06 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA26892
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@mindbender.headcandy.com [199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26820
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:19:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01570; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607070518.WAA01570@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>
cc: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>,
"Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>,
Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 06 Jul 96 20:15:24 -0600.
<Pine.LNX.3.91.960706201052.21047A-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 22:18:58 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>plus, they CLAIM everyone
>will have 10mbps per house hold, well, considering that theres not thaty
>much bandwidth to waste for a bunch of web browsing crowd, and they say
>that there will only be 128k recieve, but 10mbps send. now thats strange.
Nobody claimed "everyone" would get 10Mb/s per household. I've heard
many different rates, depending on where you live, and what kind of
infrastructure is in place.
1) Regardless, almost every figure I have heard quoted, except for the
very lowest, are still better than modems. Many of them are better
than ISDN, and *much* better than modems. Who cares if it's 10Mb/s or
1Mb/s? It's still *way* faster than anything else I can connect with.
2) Without exception, every figure I have heard quoted has the *send*
side the same or slower than receive. None of them have the receive
side slow and send fast. What would be the point. Besides, it just
doesn't make sense.
3) 128Kb/s is still the fastest ISDN will (currently) go, and several
times faster than the fastest modem. Where's the problem? I'd take
128Kb/s in a heartbeat if I could get it at the same price as my
current modem connection.
>well, First Off,if cable modems were around, ISP's wouldnt be, because
>the Cable company has taken over the business.
[...]
>*I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
>really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
>that then they would have a monopoly.
Who says the ISPs won't still be around? That's an awful speculative
jump of logic.
Someone still has to sell the *services*, and who says the cable
company will even be interested. Who's going to provide USENET news,
Web service, login shells? I doubt my cable company will be
interested in all that. Which means my cable company can provide a
pipe to the 'net, and let someone else sell me the rest. Sounds like
a really good market for ISPs.
Also, who says the phone companies know anything more than the cable
companies. They've had their thumbs up their asses for so long,
trying to figure out how to sell us trailing-edge digital technology
without hurting their business profits, that they may end up missing
this boat entirely.
Personally, I don't care. Whoever gets to my house first with a
digital tap I can afford, with decent performance, will get my
business. If it's the cable company, fine. Phone company? Well, I
don't have any love for them, but I'll take what they offer *if* they
manage to get here first. I'd say the odds are against them, however.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 22:37:48 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA28062
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA28055
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA22963; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:37:32 -0600
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:37:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: "Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9607062351.D8437-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960706233326.22897A-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Sat, 6 Jul 1996, Henry Spencer wrote:
> > well, First Off,if cable modems were around, ISP's wouldnt be, because
> > the Cable company has taken over the business...
>
> Most of the small ISPs are not long for this world anyway, because they're
> about to get competition from the local phone companies. The people who
> own the existing wires have a powerful natural advantage, and there's just
> no getting around that.
Well, doesnt that take some fun out of running unix, if you cant be a
sysadmin on the professional level with out being hired out? i would
think most of the people around this mailing list would be against such a
thing.
> > > plus, they CLAIM everyone
> > will have 10mbps per house hold, well, considering that theres not thaty
> > much bandwidth to waste for a bunch of web browsing crowd, and they say
> > that there will only be 128k recieve, but 10mbps send. now thats strange.
>
> Not really. For one thing, the 128k/10M split is just an oddity of *your*
> local cable system -- the better-equipped ones are talking about symmetrical
> bandwidth. For another, the cable company has *lots* of bandwidth available
> in their wiring; it's just a matter of the electronics on each end. Of
> course, in the end, it will boil down to you paying higher fees if you want
> higher bandwidth.
Well, do you have proof otherwise? i heard this from a national bases, in
fact, from what *I* hear, they really dont exsist in the working form as
of yet.
>
> > *I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
> > really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
> > that then they would have a monopoly.
>
> What do you think of phone companies? It may come down to a choice of two
> evils. As I said above: they own the wires, so there's not a lot of
> room to maneuver. If you don't like monopolies, start lobbying now for
> competitive cable and phone services.
no, i dont like the phone companies, but i sure can provide a service
using them, but with a cable company how am i supposed to get someone to
call me, when there already connected? and as far as beating a monopoly,
unfortunatly, i dont think ANYONE has enough money to lay there own cable
all of a city, or a state. now if YOU have any suggestions on making this
amount of money so i can do this, im listening.
> Henry Spencer
> henry@zoo.toronto.edu
Thank you, have a nice day
Joel Yancey
Dead.deadend.com
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 22:40:12 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA28687
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from MindBender.HeadCandy.com (root@mindbender.headcandy.com [199.238.225.168])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28665
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost.HeadCandy.com (michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1]) by MindBender.HeadCandy.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01617; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199607070539.WAA01617@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
X-Authentication-Warning: MindBender.HeadCandy.com: Host michaelv@localhost.HeadCandy.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
To: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>
cc: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>,
"Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 06 Jul 96 23:49:35 -0400.
<Pine.3.89.9607062351.D8437-0100000@zoo.toronto.edu>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 22:39:38 -0700
From: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
>> *I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
>> really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
>> that then they would have a monopoly.
>What do you think of phone companies? It may come down to a choice of two
>evils. As I said above: they own the wires, so there's not a lot of
>room to maneuver. If you don't like monopolies, start lobbying now for
>competitive cable and phone services.
Uh, the economics of that are rather unworkable. These are
"controlled monopolies". The monopolies are provided to the companies
for service in an area, and in return the companies give up pricing
control to regulatory agencies. This is comonly done where public
access is limited in some way (such as redundant infrastructure wiring
costs), and granting a controlled monopoly is actually in the public
interest.
It's only the largest service areas that have *any* competition, and
then it's only two or three companies. The infrastructure costs are
way too high to make a true free market companies work (forget me if I
forget my economics terminology). If six different companies were to
string redundant wiring across your city, they'd likely all go out of
business from excessive infrastructure costs, with too little return
on investment.
One of the few ways this could be made to work would be if the city
owned the wiring, and leased access to competing phone and cable
companies, who only had to worry about providing the actual dial tone
and picture. But then you'd be paying the city for all the
infrastructure, and the the phone and cable company a second time for
your service.
This is why, if you get down to the bottom of it, in many competing
areas, some companies are actually leasing wire from the company
they're competing against. It simply isn't possible to put in their
own redundant wiring and recoup the costs.
If there are any well-studied economists in our midst, they can
probably explain this way better than I can. To stray waaay off the
subject... ;-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
--< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-freebsd-hardware Sat Jul 6 22:47:34 1996
Return-Path: owner-hardware
Received: (from root@localhost)
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA29898
for hardware-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (root@gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10])
by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29883
for <hardware@freebsd.org>; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gallup.cia-g.com (gallup.cia-g.com [206.206.162.10]) by gallup.cia-g.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23052; Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:47:06 -0600
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:47:05 -0600 (MDT)
From: Joel Yancey <python@cia-g.com>
To: "Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com" <michaelv@HeadCandy.com>
cc: Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.toronto.edu>,
"Jacob M. Parnas" <jparnas@jparnas.cybercom.net>,
Richard Foulk <richard@pegasus.com>, hardware@freebsd.org,
bsdi-users@bsdi.com
Subject: Re: cable vs. ISDN
In-Reply-To: <199607070518.WAA01570@MindBender.HeadCandy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.960706234108.22897B-100000@gallup.cia-g.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-hardware@freebsd.org
X-Loop: FreeBSD.org
Precedence: bulk
On Sat, 6 Jul 1996, Michael L. VanLoon -- HeadCandy.com wrote:
>
> >plus, they CLAIM everyone
> >will have 10mbps per house hold, well, considering that theres not thaty
> >much bandwidth to waste for a bunch of web browsing crowd, and they say
> >that there will only be 128k recieve, but 10mbps send. now thats strange.
>
> Nobody claimed "everyone" would get 10Mb/s per household. I've heard
> many different rates, depending on where you live, and what kind of
> infrastructure is in place.
>
> 1) Regardless, almost every figure I have heard quoted, except for the
> very lowest, are still better than modems. Many of them are better
> than ISDN, and *much* better than modems. Who cares if it's 10Mb/s or
> 1Mb/s? It's still *way* faster than anything else I can connect with.
>
> 2) Without exception, every figure I have heard quoted has the *send*
> side the same or slower than receive. None of them have the receive
> side slow and send fast. What would be the point. Besides, it just
> doesn't make sense.
>
> 3) 128Kb/s is still the fastest ISDN will (currently) go, and several
> times faster than the fastest modem. Where's the problem? I'd take
> 128Kb/s in a heartbeat if I could get it at the same price as my
> current modem connection.
ok, i would like that too, but i dont like that idea of not running an ISP.
>
> >well, First Off,if cable modems were around, ISP's wouldnt be, because
> >the Cable company has taken over the business.
> [...]
> >*I* myself, dont like that opinion, because the cable company doesnt
> >really know what a computer system is all about, and i dont like the fact
> >that then they would have a monopoly.
>
> Who says the ISPs won't still be around? That's an awful speculative
> jump of logic.
>
> Someone still has to sell the *services*, and who says the cable
> company will even be interested. Who's going to provide USENET news,
> Web service, login shells? I doubt my cable company will be
> interested in all that. Which means my cable company can provide a
> pipe to the 'net, and let someone else sell me the rest. Sounds like
> a really good market for ISPs.
where do you think the market is? not in providing the lines, but
providing the service. plus, even if it was only true that they would
have to come to an ISP for the connection, thers not enough bandwidth.
then 10Mbps, or even 1 Mbps would drag a T3 down being access by only a
couple hundred people. so wheres the logic in going the an ISP? and ther
will always be AT LEAST 200 people in this god's green earth that will be
using, or your ISP really sucks.
> Also, who says the phone companies know anything more than the cable
> companies. They've had their thumbs up their asses for so long,
> trying to figure out how to sell us trailing-edge digital technology
> without hurting their business profits, that they may end up missing
> this boat entirely.
>
> Personally, I don't care. Whoever gets to my house first with a
> digital tap I can afford, with decent performance, will get my
> business. If it's the cable company, fine. Phone company? Well, I
> don't have any love for them, but I'll take what they offer *if* they
> manage to get here first. I'd say the odds are against them, however.
Obvisouly, your not an ISP. so why would you care. and i dont like the
idea of running a Unix system, and having all this knowledge of runng,
maintaing, programming for, and the like to goto waste because of a TV
Cable company.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael L. VanLoon michaelv@HeadCandy.com
> --< Free your mind and your machine -- NetBSD free un*x >--
> NetBSD working ports: 386+PC, Mac 68k, Amiga, Atari 68k, HP300, Sun3,
> Sun4/4c/4m, DEC MIPS, DEC Alpha, PC532, VAX, MVME68k, arm32...
> NetBSD ports in progress: PICA, others...
>
> Roll your own Internet access -- Seattle People's Internet cooperative.
> If you're in the Seattle area, ask me how.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Thank you, but no thank you, cable is bad enough where it's at,
joel yancey
dead.deadend.com