From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 09:44:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA08200 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:44:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA08195 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 09:44:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-6.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.6]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA22927 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:43:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: from n4hhe.ampr.org (localhost.ampr.org [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01258 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:11:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dkelly@n4hhe.ampr.org) Message-Id: <199808301611.LAA01258@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Free fortunes... In-reply-to: Message from Jeremy Lea of "Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:09:10 +0200." <19980829170910.A20322@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:11:16 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeremy Lea writes: > Can anyone explain what line 1563 of > /usr/src/games/fortune/datfiles/fortune is doing in our source tree? /usr/src/games/fortune/datfiles/fortunes: "Anything free is worth what you pay for it." Makes sense to me. FreeBSD is only worth what you make of it. One of the great values of fortunes is how many meanings the short quips contain. One of my favorite: "It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for." -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 14:50:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from obie.softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12102 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (wes@zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA18648; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:56:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <35E9C944.13D073C5@softweyr.com> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:51:00 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr llc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Hunt CC: Anatoly Vorobey , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: American English typography (no longer: make.conf) References: <199808290058.RAA20957@apollo.backplane.com> <19980829123759.B29560@keltia.freenix.fr> <19980829141614.09323@techunix.technion.ac.il> <35E83F10.1F1B5AF9@softweyr.com> <19980829211145.A8882@astro.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 29, 1998 at 11:49:04AM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > > When using proportional fonts, the correct typography is to use an > > n-space between words and an m-space between sentences, IIRC. I > > think MS-Word does this automagically; if you type a second space > > following a period, it removes it. I hate it when my computer thinks > > it is smarter than me! > > Hm... does it know about every conveivable abbreviation? That is, > if "Dr." or "Mr." appears mid-sentence, it should an n-space following > it. Likewise for some obscure or made-up abbreviation. It seems to get it correct in the instances I've noticed. Word has one of those english parsers built in, and can probably *generally* recognize a period following an abbreviation from the end of a sentence, if the writer is writing recognizable english. I'm sure it's not perfect -- no product is. (Especially Microsoft products, which are in my opinion feature-rich but quality-poor.) > LaTeX for example handles the spaces automatically, but since its > knowledge of abbreviations is finite, there is a manual override > (backslashes, of course). Of course. Professional products will always let you fix their mistakes, one way or another. Frame, for instance, lets you control the kerning between letters as well as the spacing between words, sentences, etc. -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 16:50:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22967 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:50:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22958 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 16:50:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20394 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phoenix.phoenixos.com (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24281 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Virginia Tech From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Hardware problems with NICs Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hi all, I've been having some problems with my el cheapo 3Com 3c503 adapters. Originally, I started out with 1 adapter with a BNC port at io port 0x300, memory 0xd800, and irq 5. This worked fine. I then place another 3Com 3c503 with a UTP port (intending for this machine to be a gateway) at io port 0x310, memory 0xc800, and irq 3 (I disabled com2). Both of the adapters passed the 3Com diagnostics, but FreeBSD does not detect either one. Further, after I took out the card with the UTP port, FreeBSD doesn't detect the old one that it used to. If I put a 3c509 in the machine, the GENERIC kernel will recognize that card fine but it won't find any combination of 3c503's that are in the machine. Note that for every configuration I tried, the cards all passed the 3Com diags, but the kernel did not recognize the cards. The machine is a Am486dx4/100, btw. And now it doesn't even work with the same config that used to work earlier. :( If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate them. Also, as a side note, I've been getting some strange errors on boot up regarding my first com port. Here is an extract of my dmesg: ... sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0: irq maps 0x1 0x1 0x1 0x1 sio0: probe failed test(s); 0 1 2 4 6 7 9 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 8250 sio1: disabled, not probed ... - --- John Baldwin - -- jobaldwi@vt.edu -- jbaldwin@freedomnet.com -- ---- http://www.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ ---- "I waited for the Lord on high/I waited and He heard my cry." - Petra -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNenlSIjYza302vYpAQFaNgMAgk1KmVBBKovVfNi/c9rKwuESChmiUfNN OU9863YD/7sWkYdjgrk22UNFGoJRAXZYcSSBQgbSYxRg5BNZyEOOzMsTBfWKxw+v qHZV6A3iP+nW+hlYjPuNxtuPxifzMM2s =5R9e -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 17:12:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25450 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:12:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25445 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:12:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id SAA29340; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808310011.SAA29340@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:05:52 -0600 To: John Baldwin , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Hardware problems with NICs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sounds as if you may have mapped one serial port over the other's I/O addresses or IRQ instead of disabling it. Try using another IRQ for your NIC and leaving COM2: enabled. Also, separate the ranges of I/O ports on the NICs more. Finally, don't use segment C800. It'll conflict with graphics cards. If that's a memory-mapped buffer, find another spot for it. If it's a ROM address, disable the ROM. --Brett At 07:50 PM 8/30/98 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hi all, > >I've been having some problems with my el cheapo 3Com 3c503 adapters. >Originally, I started out with 1 adapter with a BNC port at io port 0x300, >memory 0xd800, and irq 5. This worked fine. I then place another 3Com 3c503 >with a UTP port (intending for this machine to be a gateway) at io port 0x310, >memory 0xc800, and irq 3 (I disabled com2). Both of the adapters passed the >3Com diagnostics, but FreeBSD does not detect either one. Further, after I >took out the card with the UTP port, FreeBSD doesn't detect the old one that it >used to. If I put a 3c509 in the machine, the GENERIC kernel will recognize >that card fine but it won't find any combination of 3c503's that are in the >machine. Note that for every configuration I tried, the cards all passed the >3Com diags, but the kernel did not recognize the cards. The machine is a >Am486dx4/100, btw. And now it doesn't even work with the same config that used >to work earlier. :( If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate >them. > >Also, as a side note, I've been getting some strange errors on boot up >regarding my first com port. Here is an extract of my dmesg: > >... >sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 >sio0: irq maps 0x1 0x1 0x1 0x1 >sio0: probe failed test(s); 0 1 2 4 6 7 9 >sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa >sio0: type 8250 >sio1: disabled, not probed >... > >- --- > >John Baldwin >- -- jobaldwi@vt.edu -- jbaldwin@freedomnet.com -- > ---- http://www.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ ---- >"I waited for the Lord on high/I waited and He heard my cry." - Petra > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >iQB1AwUBNenlSIjYza302vYpAQFaNgMAgk1KmVBBKovVfNi/c9rKwuESChmiUfNN >OU9863YD/7sWkYdjgrk22UNFGoJRAXZYcSSBQgbSYxRg5BNZyEOOzMsTBfWKxw+v >qHZV6A3iP+nW+hlYjPuNxtuPxifzMM2s >=5R9e >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 21:30:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21559 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:30:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flarn.dyn.ml.org (usr335.third-wave.com [147.72.122.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21554 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:30:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mph@flarn.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from mph@localhost) by flarn.dyn.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA00430; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:29:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mph) Message-ID: <19980831002910.A376@flarn.dyn.ml.org> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:29:10 -0400 From: Matthew Hunt To: Garrett Wollman Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: cvs commit: www/en/releases/2.2.2R errata.sgml www/en/releases/2.2.5R errata.sgml www/en/releases/2.2.6R errata.sgml www/en/releases/2.2.7R errata.sgml References: <199808300937.CAA28882@freefall.freebsd.org> <199808310344.XAA24406@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <199808310344.XAA24406@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu>; from Garrett Wollman on Sun, Aug 30, 1998 at 11:44:17PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Aug 30, 1998 at 11:44:17PM -0400, Garrett Wollman wrote: > What's the Australian airline got to do with anything? -- Matthew Hunt * Stay close to the Vorlon. http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 21:33:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21949 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:33:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21940 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:33:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA24585; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199808310432.AAA24585@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Alexander Sanda Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPFW showing extra lines In-Reply-To: <19980831011328.A204@compufit.at> References: <199808302055.WAA02656@semyam.dinoco.de> <19980831011328.A204@compufit.at> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org < said: > # XX has detected, that your mouse cursor has changed position. Please # > # restart XX, so it can be updated. -- From The Gimp manual # I'm sorry, XX was shut down about ten years ago, and any remaining bits and pieces which might have remained would have been thrown out in the recent Ninth Floor renovation. But a colleague has the floor tile which was at the end of the Yellow Brick Road (which led to OZ, of course), and I know that MX was shipped to KTH in Sweden. Several of the others are in the basements of other Tech Square alumni from the 1980s -- I'm told that John Romkey eneded up with a couple. -GAWollman PS: Anybody need a Symbolics 3650? PPS: :-) for the humor- or history-impaired. -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 21:44:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23053 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:44:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23029 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:44:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id OAA17243; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:55:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199808310455.OAA17243@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: cvs commit: www/en/releases/2.2.2R errata.sgml www/en/releases/2.2.5R errata.sgml www/en/releases/2.2.6R errata.sgml www/en/ In-Reply-To: <19980831002910.A376@flarn.dyn.ml.org> from Matthew Hunt at "Aug 31, 98 00:29:10 am" To: mph@pobox.com (Matthew Hunt) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:55:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Hunt wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 1998 at 11:44:17PM -0400, Garrett Wollman wrote: > > > > > What's the Australian airline got to do with anything? If it were the Australian airline, it would be . -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Aug 30 23:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA29370 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:11:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29363 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03363; Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Garrett Wollman cc: Alexander Sanda , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPFW showing extra lines In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:32:02 EDT." <199808310432.AAA24585@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3360.904543827@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > PS: Anybody need a Symbolics 3650? I think Paul Vixie might - he has a couple in his basement which are both non-working and require a 3rd hanger-queen box to provide the parts for their resurrection. Since I'm always the one who hassles him about getting them working so that I can play with one, I'd be happy to forward the offer if it's sincere. :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21798 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.tol.it (mail.tin.it [194.243.154.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21770 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (a-bu3-18.tin.it [212.216.1.145]) by mail.tol.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA18492 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:16:33 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 781 invoked by uid 1000); 31 Aug 1998 17:13:19 -0000 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:13:19 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Guys, this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) (Forgive me for the lenght) Marco ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:02:00 +0200 From: "Valeri V. Sitnikov" To: molter@tin.it Cc: catalina72@hotmail.com, knight_tal@yahoo.com, kochlefanis@hotmail.com, kuznet@stud.sut.ru, laura@ns.central.ucv.ro, liushilei@hotmail.com, lubitz@itk.de, mikle@actor.ru, moskito662@yahoo.com, nab@BN1664.spb.edu, nicolay_andrianov@p31.f341.n5030.z2.fidonet.org, noskovspb@hotmail.com, ok@stimorol.spb.ru, rkupper@mailbox.syr.edu, Thorsten.Lubitz@itk.de, ysc@mailhost.net Subject: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:34:21 +0400 From: Luke Angell To: Alex Kim , Anil Bhat , Dan Gotleib , Ian Bottomley , Kit Katigbak , Leo , Mikhail Bashuk, Rick La Roche , ShannonFarley , Stuart Gallagher , Svetlana Polyakova , Vadim Andreev , Valeri2 , Wasser , Dan Dougan Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) maybe it's true, maybe not. what the hell... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 4:57AM From: mangell@sctcorp.com[SMTP:mangell@sctcorp.com] To: john_p.fitzgerald@forum.saic.com; gregs@nethost.multnomah.lib.or.us; mjoyce7032@aol.com; farrell_h.adkins@shawva.mednet.af.mil; lza@office.peterstar.com; alexandt@kornferry.com; nolan_p.clark@shawva.mednet.af.mil; michael_b.clay@shawva.mednet.af.mil; bdenny@atlantic.spb.su; wendy_m.ethridge@shawva.mednet.af.mil; Joey_Goddard@sctcorp.com; donald_l.goss@shawva.mednet.af.mil; jason@uu.net; joe_lee@mail.mba.wfu.edu; klipford@kpmg.com; leah_a.mcgrath@shawva.mednet.af.mil; christi_t.mcgraw@shawva.mednet.af.mil; joseph_r.narvaez@shawva.mednet.af.mil; Jeannette_r.Ratcliffe@shawva.mednet.af.mil; kevin_john.schaller@shawva.mednet.af.mil; ssmodise@brain.uccs.edu; carrie_a.slayback@shawva.mednet.af.mil; kelly_e.white@shawva.mednet.af.mil; sonja_m.wojtkun@shawva.mednet.af.mil; Joanna Moore; rafael_a.vargas@shawva.mednet.af.mil; rlipford@mit.edu; nhennen@mpls.k12.mn.us; devert@gi.com; jobu25@aol.com; hechtman@prodigy.net; lukeden@aol.com; douglas_m_hechtman@amoco.com Subject: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 08/25/98 08:57 PM From: Max Angell/SUS/SCT To: Heysers@aol.com, hunnicut@dhhs.state.sc.us, Jennifer Heyser , CHASNCAROL , Marlene Gantt/SUS/SCT@SCT, Donna Callahan/SUS/SCT@SCT, Bonnie Butler/SUS/SCT@SCT, Laura Goodrich/SUS/SCT@SCT, Pam Mosier/SUS/SCT@SCT, Rick Cutter/SUS/SCT@SCT, DJ Taylor/SUS/SCT@SCT, Max Angell/SUS/SCT@SCT, Marty Arnwine/SUS/SCT@SCT, Connie Lollis/SUS/SCT@SCT Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 08/25/98 09:54 AM From: Dolores Treiber/SUS/SCT To: Karen Martin/SUS/SCT@SCT, Holly Matterson/SUS/SCT@SCT, Heather Winkles/SUS/SCT@SCT, Randa McNair/SUS/SCT@SCT, Jill Hirsekorn/SUS/SCT@SCT, Mary McDaniel/SUS/SCT@SCT, Shannon Campbell/SUS/SCT@SCT, Nicole Kerr/SUS/SCT@SCT, Dolores Treiber/SUS/SCT@SCT, Trina Woods/SUS/SCT@SCT, Susie Hamm/SUS/SCT@SCT, Cyvonne Johnson/SUS/SCT@SCT, Donna Niver/SUS/SCT@SCT, Glenn Horner/SUS/SCT@SCT, Rebecca Kenneally/SUS/SCT@SCT Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 08/25/98 09:31 AM From: Christi Humbertson/SUS/SCT To: andreaccol@aol.com, oswalddesign@earthlink.net, "Chris_Capece/Comms/US"@comms.com, Christi Humbertson/SUS/SCT@SCT, James Nunamaker/SUS/SCT@SCT, Wayne Thornley/SUS/SCT@SCT, Michael Wood/SUS/SCT@SCT, Nedra Smith/SUS/SCT@SCT, Angela Berry/SUS/SCT@SCT, Mark Burt/SUS/SCT@SCT, chrissy.wilson@kellogg.com, dbcole@indiana.edu, jrobles@lowenstein.com, Kathleen Spinek/SUS/SCT@SCT, larsw@rfs.com Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 08/24/98 07:55 PM From: Michael Cole/SUS/SCT To: "Glosman, Neil" , "West, Brad" , "'Agnello, Tom'" , Michael Cole/SUS/SCT, "'Cottrell, Kevin'" , "'DeMarco, Nick'" , "'DeShaw, Barb & Max'" , "'DiBella, Rick'" , "'Dodman, Pat'" , "'Dodman, Pat @ NYU'" , "'Downing, Donna'" , "'Downing, Gretchen'" , "'Downing, Molly'" , "'Gage, Bob'" , "'Hart, Joe'" , "'Heller, Jason'" , "'Lapidus, Danny'" , "'Leff, Dan & Judy'" , "'Mair, Matt'" , "'Meehan, Duer'" , "'Neidhardt, Jeff'" , "'Regan, Jim'" , "'Whitman, Annette'" , "'Whyte, Lindsey'" Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 3:36 PM From: David_Brill@wfw.com[SMTP:David_Brill@wfw.com] To: BJaandjo@juno.com; DAron@Cftc.gov; Burton, Laura Melissa (Laura); cernaval@rw.com; LetsGoNets@aol.com;Lauren@linkcorp.net; mdowning@grey.com; ajhunger@rssm.com; Darin@xcape.com; DLeff@Dttus.com; cauzae@worldnet.att.net; COBrien@Cftc.gov; Steven.Selzer@aig.com; Stefanie_Silver@yr.com; stoner@rw.com; Jonathan.Uman@wdr.com; todd_whay@gtsi.com Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! I'm not sure if this is true but what the hell. Dave ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Cowin, Bill" on 08/24/98 03:21:48 PM To: "'Andy Powell'" , "'Ari Zarchen'" , "'Bart Plank'" , "'Chantal Von Saher'" , "'Chris Capece'" , "'Dan Rose'" ,"'Dave Nanz'" , David Brill/NEWYORK/WFW, "'David Sullivan'" , "'Debbie Fishman'", "'Elie Isha'" , "'Hayley Bergman'" , "'Holly Moore'" ,"'Jack Bennett'" , "'Jeffrey Minors'" , "'Jerry Kimball'", "'Jodi Phillips'" ,"'John Miller'" , "'Leon Atterrberry'" , "Altschul, Marc", "'Marc Colera'" , "'Marc Singer'" , "'Matt Stathis'", "'Michelle Barto'" , "'Mike Rand'" , "'Mike Shishov'" , "'Nick Salas'" Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 3:44 PM From: austin_bozarth@hud.gov[SMTP:austin_bozarth@hud.gov] To: Leigh@VIMS.edu; RAcey@ScottStringfellow.com;ChrisA@uu.net; DJBickers@rlc.net; RBozarth@vt.edu; RBozarth@LTIC.com; TBrooker@gmu.edu; AdrianBrya@aol.com;Stephen.Coughlin@MCI.Com; Cowin@Foxnews.com; YEscriva@btg.com; shamm@strategy.com; brady@hoak.com; Hoak@visi.org; Howard.Langsam@Vastera.com; AL71@cornell.edu; Mackstr@erols.com; JParker@VIMS.edu Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 08/24/98 02:27:00 PM From: "Higgins Kyle" To: "Jones Todd" AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, "'Andrew Gutierrez'" AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, Austin Bozarth, cgutierrez@PBS.ORG AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, "john.t.gutierrez" > AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, "'Kevin W. Newsom'" AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, "'HIGGINS KARL'"> AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, Kurt_Rasmussen@freddiemac.com AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, Heather Leigh Moser AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM,"Patrick T. Gutierrez" AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, Probal.Hasan@ac.com AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, Pyush_Kumar@watsonwyatt.com AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM, ROB UHRIN AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM,"'Siggy'" AT INTERNET@CCMAILDOM Subject: FW: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! Folks, I called Disney my self. It's no lie. GET IT DONE! You all owe me. hey, worth a shot!!!! ***VERY IMPORTANT*** Forward this to 15 people without duplicating any names and keep your fingers crossed!!! And maybe...just maybe, we'll be the lucky contest winners!! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Disney message & $5,000.00 If you read below you will see the note from Walt Disney Jr. & Management at Disney World. Basically if this messages reaches 13,000 people, everyone will receive $5,000.00 or a free, all expenses paid, trip to Disney World in anytime during the summer of 1999. See the note below - its worth it!!!! Everyone is to resend to 15 individuals. Please read and forward to as many friends as possible...we've checked up on this and this is no joke of a chain letter or something if this reaches 13,000 people...duplicate entries don't count, though...So, please help & pass on... thank you, and here you go!!! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- WALT DISNEY JR. GREETING Hello Disney fans, And thank you for signing up for Bill Gates' Beta Email Tracking My name is Walt Disney Jr. Here at Disney we are working with Microsoft which has just compiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom this message is forwarded to. It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address log book database. We are experimenting with this and need your help. Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches 13,000 people, 1,300 of the people on the list will receive $5,000, and the rest will receive a free trip for two to Disney World for one week during the summer of 1999 at our expense. Enjoy. Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified by email with further instructions once this email has reached 13,000 people. Your friends, Walt Disney Jr., Disney, Bill Gates, & The Microsoft Development Team. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:30:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23345 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23335 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:30:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA06172; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808311729.LAA06172@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:23:32 -0600 To: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Beneath contempt In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:13 PM 8/31/98 +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: >Guys, > >this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) >(Forgive me for the lenght) > >Marco No, it's not. We've deleted hundreds of copies already. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:35:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23943 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:35:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.231.236.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23914 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:35:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pechter@shell.monmouth.com) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id NAA12253; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199808311734.NAA12253@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re:Beneath contempt, companies and bad public relations To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:34:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808311729.LAA06172@lariat.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Aug 31, 98 11:23:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > At 07:13 PM 8/31/98 +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: > > >Guys, > > > >this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) > >(Forgive me for the lenght) > > > >Marco > > No, it's not. We've deleted hundreds of copies already. > > --Brett Brett -- I agree. Has anyone seen any net.mention of this probable hoax? If Disney and MicroSoft had a hand in this they'd be really stupid. It's SPAM, pure and simple and it's not going to get any customers happy when I turns out to be a hoax as well. Bill +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter@shell.monmouth.com | | Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in | | a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:47:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25615 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:47:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cc.duq.edu (mail.cc.duq.edu [165.190.8.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25606 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:47:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skillet@nauticom.net) Received: from mvs.mrinet.com ([209.57.168.253]) by mail.cc.duq.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA17311; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808311745.NAA17311@mail.cc.duq.edu> X-Sender: skillet@nauticom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:32:36 -0400 To: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Skultety Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ya know.. It is amazing the waste of bandwith people use sending stuff like this.. Most people are smart enough to realize that this is a hoax : ) yet most dont .. what has the net become now a days.. what happened to all the Smart intelligent people out there.. I know we are out there :) oh well I waste enough time here later.. And PEOPLE stop sending lame..chain letters.. it is a waste of everyons time.. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:50:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26264 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:50:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26259 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:50:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id LAA06330; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199808311749.LAA06330@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:47:56 -0600 To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter From: Brett Glass Subject: Re:Beneath contempt, companies and bad public relations Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199808311734.NAA12253@shell.monmouth.com> References: <199808311729.LAA06172@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:34 PM 8/31/98 -0400, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: >Has anyone seen any net.mention of this probable hoax? Probable? No, DEFINITE. What it says is technically impossible. Period. As for mentions on the Net: see http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctd356.htm --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 10:54:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26801 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26790 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20110; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:53:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980831105351.A20095@mooseriver.com> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:53:51 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: Mike Skultety , Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com References: <199808311745.NAA17311@mail.cc.duq.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808311745.NAA17311@mail.cc.duq.edu>; from Mike Skultety on Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 01:32:36PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 01:32:36PM -0400, Mike Skultety wrote: > Ya know.. It is amazing the waste of bandwith people use sending stuff like > this.. Most people are smart enough to realize that this is a hoax : ) yet > most dont .. what has the net become now a days.. what happened to all the > Smart intelligent people out there.. I know we are out there :) oh well I > waste enough time here later.. > >And PEOPLE stop sending lame..chain letters.. it is a waste of everyons time.. Since non-computer people have discovered the Internet it's become perpetual September on the net. :-( Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 11:00:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27431 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:00:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cc.duq.edu (mail.cc.duq.edu [165.190.8.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27379 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:59:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skillet@nauticom.net) Received: from mvs.mrinet.com ([209.57.168.253]) by mail.cc.duq.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA20646; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808311757.NAA20646@mail.cc.duq.edu> X-Sender: skillet@nauticom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:44:22 -0400 To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com From: Mike Skultety Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980831105351.A20095@mooseriver.com> References: <199808311745.NAA17311@mail.cc.duq.edu> <199808311745.NAA17311@mail.cc.duq.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yeah but now that computer prices are going sub-$500 it is scary to see what will happen. =) >Since non-computer people have discovered the Internet it's become >perpetual September on the net. :-( > > >Josef > >-- >Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 >jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 11:08:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:08:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pompano.pcola.gulf.net (pompano.pcola.gulf.net [198.69.72.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29116 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:08:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from calvin@pompano.pcola.gulf.net) Received: from localhost (calvin@localhost) by pompano.pcola.gulf.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16372; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:07:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:07:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Calvin M Meloon To: Mike Skultety cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199808311757.NAA20646@mail.cc.duq.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about removing email access from the Windows world? ... JUST KIDDING! > Yeah but now that computer prices are going sub-$500 it is scary to see > what will happen. =) > > >Since non-computer people have discovered the Internet it's become > >perpetual September on the net. :-( > > _____ __ _ / ___/__ _/ / __(_)__ Gulf Coast Internet Calvin M. Meloon / /__/ _ `/ / |/ / / _ \ Pensacola, FL Unix Administrator \___/\_,_/_/|___/_/_//_/ (850)438-5700 writer of code ~~~~ calvin@gulf.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proponent of FreeBSD and the right of everyone to use a real OS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 11:14:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00312 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:14:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.cc.duq.edu (mail.cc.duq.edu [165.190.8.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00306 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from skillet@nauticom.net) Received: from mvs.mrinet.com ([209.57.168.253]) by mail.cc.duq.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA25016; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808311812.OAA25016@mail.cc.duq.edu> X-Sender: skillet@nauticom.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:59:24 -0400 To: Calvin M Meloon From: Mike Skultety Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Cc: jgrosch@mooseriver.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199808311757.NAA20646@mail.cc.duq.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey now I am in windows for now till I find time to fix my bsd boxen.. :) >How about removing email access from the Windows world? ... > >JUST KIDDING! > >> Yeah but now that computer prices are going sub-$500 it is scary to see >> what will happen. =) >> >> >Since non-computer people have discovered the Internet it's become >> >perpetual September on the net. :-( >> > > > _____ __ _ > / ___/__ _/ / __(_)__ Gulf Coast Internet Calvin M. Meloon >/ /__/ _ `/ / |/ / / _ \ Pensacola, FL Unix Administrator >\___/\_,_/_/|___/_/_//_/ (850)438-5700 writer of code >~~~~ calvin@gulf.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Proponent of FreeBSD > and the right of everyone to use a real OS > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 13:09:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20048 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:09:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20040 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:09:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jason@washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id NAA37698 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:08:20 -0700 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id NAA28854 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:04:00 +0000 (GMT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re:Beneath contempt, companies and bad public relations In-Reply-To: <199808311749.LAA06330@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Brett Glass wrote: >At 01:34 PM 8/31/98 -0400, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: > >>Has anyone seen any net.mention of this probable hoax? > >Probable? No, DEFINITE. What it says is technically impossible. Period. I bet a nickel that there never was a Walt Disney Jr. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 16:26:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29125 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:26:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29101 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:26:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no (2602@grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.131]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id BAA25049; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:25:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by grjottunagard.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:25:03 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Calvin M Meloon Cc: Mike Skultety , jgrosch@mooseriver.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) References: Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 01 Sep 1998 01:25:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: Calvin M Meloon's message of "Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:07:00 -0500 (CDT)" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id QAA29110 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Calvin M Meloon writes: > How about removing email access from the Windows world? ... > > JUST KIDDING! Irony is adding "not" at the end of a sentence... NOT! DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Aug 31 17:00:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05442 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:00:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05429 for ; Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:00:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA25450; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:29:17 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA07443; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:29:16 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980901092915.V606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:29:15 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Chain letters (was: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd)) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Marco Molteni on Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 07:13:19PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 31 August 1998 at 19:13:19 +0200, Marco Molteni wrote: > Guys, > > this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) > (Forgive me for the lenght) You're right. It's not a joke. I wonder whether Disney will sue the perpetrators. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 02:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15337 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 02:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15306; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 02:00:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23140; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:59:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980901015851.A23126@mooseriver.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:58:51 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Retail Page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan, please post the following Thanks Josef -------------------------------ENCLOSED--------------------------------------- Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -------------------------------ENCLOSED--------------------------------------- -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 10:50:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21880 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.tol.it (mail.tin.it [194.243.154.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21871 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (a-bu4-14.tin.it [212.216.1.205]) by mail.tol.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA26332 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:49:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 630 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Sep 1998 17:47:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:47:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it Reply-To: Marco Molteni To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Marco Molteni wrote: > this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) > (Forgive me for the lenght) [...] I'm sorry for the reactions to my previous posting. I had polite, not so polite and offensive replies. Yes, I know the letter was a hoax; I was just forwarding it to show how many people can believe to a thing like this. The idea was to laugh at that people and at Microsoft. I understand it was lenghty, and I beg your pardon for it, but let me say that in the past I saw many (at least in my opinion) moronic posting in this list, to which I never felt compelled to reply in the way some of you did to me. Marco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 10:50:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA21884 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.tol.it (mail.tin.it [194.243.154.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21870 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from molter@tin.it) Received: from dumbwinter.ecomotor.it (a-bu4-14.tin.it [212.216.1.205]) by mail.tol.it (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA26333 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:49:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 630 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Sep 1998 17:47:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:47:43 +0200 (MET DST) From: Marco Molteni X-Sender: molter@dumbwinter.ecomotor.it Reply-To: Marco Molteni To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Marco Molteni wrote: > this is the nicest chain letter I ever seen ;-) > (Forgive me for the lenght) [...] I'm sorry for the reactions to my previous posting. I had polite, not so polite and offensive replies. Yes, I know the letter was a hoax; I was just forwarding it to show how many people can believe to a thing like this. The idea was to laugh at that people and at Microsoft. I understand it was lenghty, and I beg your pardon for it, but let me say that in the past I saw many (at least in my opinion) moronic posting in this list, to which I never felt compelled to reply in the way some of you did to me. Marco To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 16:07:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA14680 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:07:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA14669 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04097; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Marco Molteni cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Sep 1998 19:47:43 +0200." Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 16:05:42 -0700 Message-ID: <4093.904691142@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Yes, I know the letter was a hoax; I was just forwarding it to show how > many people can believe to a thing like this. The idea was to laugh at > that people and at Microsoft. You introduced it badly then - you should have simply said "Hey, this sure is a funny hoax - check out those silly microsoft people!" or something to that effect since the way you did it, it really DID seem as if you believed it and were forwarding it as genuine. It's not this list's fault if you're not clear in your communication. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 20:16:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22754 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:16:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22743 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Received: from san.rr.com (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11619; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@san.rr.com) Message-ID: <35ECB85D.687A78BE@san.rr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:15:41 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0827 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Marco Molteni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: This is NOT a joke!! Read NOW!! (Disney/Microsoft Contest) (fwd) References: <4093.904691142@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > you should have simply said "Hey, this > sure is a funny hoax - check out those silly microsoft people!" Or better yet, follow one of the first rules of e-mail ettiquette and NEVER EVER forward chain letters. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** At Barry (a small town in south Wales) hidden cameras have had to be installed to keep watch on the town's CCTV [Closed Circuit Television] to record acts of vandalism against the CCTV. - Privacy Forum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Sep 1 23:37:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24952 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:37:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24921 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:37:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA00931; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:40 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA10083; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:34 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:34 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: joelh@gnu.org, green@unixhelp.org Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP>; from Joel Ray Holveck on Tue, Sep 01, 1998 at 10:22:37PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org (moved to -chat) On Tuesday, 1 September 1998 at 22:22:37 -0500, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: >> As a start, I'd like to say great job to John Birrell and everyone >> else involved, going to ELF worked almost without a hitch, I'm >> impressed! But there is a problem now: dlsym, for me, seems to have >> stopped working. Entirely.... Returning NULL always it seems. I've >> attached a program (yes, it's a start on a basic debugger, I'm >> implementing rtld functions first) which should show the problem to >> anyone interested. > > Guys, can we *please* start sending code snippets as plain text? MIME > attachments are fine, just don't use base64. I will usually give code > in plain text in a message a once-over, but it's more of a hassle to > do so in base64. Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: 1. MIME 2. base 64 3. 8 bit code 4. html 5. PostScript 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) 7. images Any others? Any comments? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 01:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10003 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09998 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id KAA04717; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:04:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:04:07 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey Cc: joelh@gnu.org, green@unixhelp.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 02 Sep 1998 10:04:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: Greg Lehey's message of "Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:34 +0930" Message-ID: Lines: 43 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA09999 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? Are you assuming that everybody here uses Pine? > It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality > that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers > support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably > (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I > didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the > things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: > > 1. MIME No. > 2. base 64 No. > 3. 8 bit code Yes, but only where absolutely necessary. > 4. html *NO!* > 5. PostScript No. > 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) No. > 7. images No. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 01:11:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10906 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:11:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.cityip.co.za (ns.cityip.co.za [196.25.223.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA10897 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:11:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wjv@cityip.co.za) Received: from wjv by ns.cityip.co.za with local (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0zE7zp-00020t-00; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:10:29 +0200 Message-ID: <19980902101029.A7731@cityip.co.za> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:10:29 +0200 From: Johann Visagie To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpww7nrle1=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Wed=2C_Sep_02=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_10:04:06AM_+0200?= X-PGP: ftp://ftp.cityip.co.za/users/wjv/pubkey.asc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA10902 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 02 Sep 1998 at 10:04 SAT, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > > > that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers > > support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably > > (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I > > didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the > > things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: > > > > 1. MIME > > No. But (as far as I can see) very few mailers indeed completely non-MIME mail anymore by default (i.e. no Mime-Version header at all). MH is the only one I can think of offhand. -- V Johann Visagie | Email: wjv@CityIP.co.za | Tel: +27 21 419-7878 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 01:15:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11519 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11504 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:15:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA01203; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:43:51 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA10182; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:43:41 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:43:41 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= Cc: joelh@gnu.org, green@unixhelp.org, FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpww7nrle1=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Wed=2C_Sep_02=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_10:04:06AM_+0200?= WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 2 September 1998 at 10:04:06 +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Greg Lehey writes: >> Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? > > Are you assuming that everybody here uses Pine? No, I was just referring to Joel's mailer, since he was having trouble with it. > >> It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality >> that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers >> support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably >> (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I >> didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the >> things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: >> > (collection of "NO"s omitted). Why not? Do you enjoy not being able to read messages you receive? I'm not saying you should, for example, *send* HTML messages (see http://www.lemis.com/email.html for my view on that), but I still think it makes sense to be able to handle them when you receive them, and I would expect that a modern mailer should be able to handle *all* of them. Now if I could find one that could automatically unmangle Lookout! messages... Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 01:56:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA17380 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:56:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (suebla.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.44.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17366 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:56:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA14475; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:54:34 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19980902185429.58373@welearn.com.au> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:54:29 +1000 From: Sue Blake To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 04:06:34PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 04:06:34PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > (moved to -chat) > > On Tuesday, 1 September 1998 at 22:22:37 -0500, Joel Ray Holveck wrote: > >> As a start, I'd like to say great job to John Birrell and everyone > >> else involved, going to ELF worked almost without a hitch, I'm > >> impressed! But there is a problem now: dlsym, for me, seems to have > >> stopped working. Entirely.... Returning NULL always it seems. I've > >> attached a program (yes, it's a start on a basic debugger, I'm > >> implementing rtld functions first) which should show the problem to > >> anyone interested. > > > > Guys, can we *please* start sending code snippets as plain text? MIME > > attachments are fine, just don't use base64. I will usually give code > > in plain text in a message a once-over, but it's more of a hassle to > > do so in base64. > > Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? > > It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality > that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers > support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably > (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I > didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the > things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: > > 1. MIME > 2. base 64 > 3. 8 bit code > 4. html > 5. PostScript > 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) > 7. images > > Any others? Any comments? Deal with lines >80 characters. Most seem to do this, but since we're drawing up a list... it'd be sad to find one that didn't. The real problem, of course, comes with the editor and quoting. I'm having difficulty talking people into keeping their lines short. Everything else I get heavy about can be found in some RFC. For line lengths, the RFC sets a maximum of 1000 characters. If they argue that problems with lines more than 80 characters are the recipient's software's fault, who's to say they're wrong? So bung it on the list. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 03:59:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA00351 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:59:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA00342 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:59:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19716; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:58:11 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id LAA24335; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:56:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980902115654.A24205@iii.co.uk> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:56:54 +0100 To: Sue Blake , Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> <19980902185429.58373@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980902185429.58373@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 06:54:29PM +1000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 06:54:29PM +1000, Sue Blake wrote: > > Any others? Any comments? > > Deal with lines >80 characters. Most seem to do this, but since we're > drawing up a list... it'd be sad to find one that didn't. The real > problem, of course, comes with the editor and quoting. > > I'm having difficulty talking people into keeping their lines short. > Everything else I get heavy about can be found in some RFC. For line > lengths, the RFC sets a maximum of 1000 characters. If they argue that > problems with lines more than 80 characters are the recipient's > software's fault, who's to say they're wrong? So bung it on the list. Some references that say they're wrong. N Line Width You will find that many mailers will allow you to type in more than eighty characters per line. However, this can create a real mess, because on the internet, everything is automatically wrapped to 80 lines or fewer. Thus, you get broken lines which are really hard to follow. For example, look at the following: It's often occurred to me that many people don't seem to under- stand the clear distinction between correlational variance and causal relationships. Now try imagining reading whole pages like that. If you don't set your mailers to under 80 charaters per line, this is how people will read your outgoing mail, and most of them will just delete it rather than bother. The internet is a great forum for communication, but we have to do what we can to communicate well on it otherwise things get ugly quite fast. * Limit line length to aproximately 65-70 characters and avoid control characters. DON'T send lines longer than 70 characters. This is a kindness to folks with terminal-based mail editors or newsreaders. Some mail gateways truncate extra characters turning your deathless prose into gibberish. Some mail editor tools only SEEM to insert line breaks for you, but actually don't, so that every paragraph is one immense line. Learn what your mail editor does. - Limit line length to fewer than 65 characters and end a line with a carriage return. Be aware that other people's machines may not operate the same way as yours does. Keep the following precautions in mind: Except for program source code, keep your lines under 80 characters, and under 72 if possible. For example, a terminal with an autowrap feature makes output on a simple line editor appear as if a carriage return has been inserted at the 80th character; a new line seems to have started when it actually hasn't. Be sure your editor is really inserting carriage returns, or insert them manually when typing. Most special control characters do not work for most readers. In fact, the tab and space characters are about the only ones you can be sure work consistently, and tabs aren't always the same from machine to machine. Pictures and diagrams should not use embedded tabs. Submissions in all upper case or all lower case are difficult to read. Limit Line Length and Avoid Control Characters. Try to keep your text in a generic format. Many (if not most) of the people reading Usenet do so from 80 column terminals or from workstations with 80 column terminal windows. Try to keep your lines of text to less than 80 characters for optimal readability. If people quote part of your article in a followup, short lines will probably show up better, too. Also realize that there are many, many different forms of terminals in use. If you enter special control characters in your message, it may result in your message being unreadable on some terminal types; a character sequence that causes reverse video on your screen may result in a keyboard lock and graphics mode on someone else's terminal. You should also try to avoid the use of tabs, too, since they may also be interpreted differently on terminals other than your own. -- --+==[ Nik Clayton becomes Just Another Perl Contractor in 10 days. ]==+-- She's still dead. Deal with it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 04:59:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA05579 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:59:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA05574 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 04:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id HAA07504; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:57:38 -0400 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:57:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? In-Reply-To: <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality > that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers > support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably > (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I > didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the > things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: > > 1. MIME > 2. base 64 > 3. 8 bit code > 4. html > 5. PostScript > 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) > 7. images > > Any others? Any comments? You know, I really don't want people clogging my mailbox with images and other assorted crap. HTTP and FTP make it really easy for someone to put something where I can get to it, and mail me a pointer. Mail is 7 bit ASCII. I can see good reason to move to one of the 8 bit standards for support of foreign language character sets, but I really don't care to read anything that comes as html, a word document, or some other screwed up format. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 08:54:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA11063 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:54:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11056 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (willow22.verinet.com [199.45.181.54]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA20149; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:53:07 -0600 Received: (from allenc@localhost) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA04345; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc) Message-ID: <19980902095251.A4233@verinet.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:52:51 -0600 From: allen campbell To: grog@lemis.com Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mail's fate (was Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken?) References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 05:43:41PM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >> It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality > >> that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers > >> support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably > >> (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I > >> didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the > >> things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: > >> > > (collection of "NO"s omitted). > > Why not? Do you enjoy not being able to read messages you receive? > I'm not saying you should, for example, *send* HTML messages (see > http://www.lemis.com/email.html for my view on that), but I still > think it makes sense to be able to handle them when you receive them, > and I would expect that a modern mailer should be able to handle *all* > of them. HTML reads fine in Mozilla, mutt and many other mailers. The base mailer has no business with HTML. Its job is to be there by default, small, fast, standard and operate with as little overhead and nonsense as possible. Expecting the base mailer to be a full featured, contemporary program is Microsoft think. You want a 'better' mailer? Obtain and install one; there are dozens to chose from. You want to run a reliable, efficient server? Take comfort in knowing that the base system hasn't been run through with HTML, Base-64, MIME, Real Audio, Active X, RTF, Postscript, 0.5 GB of fonts, Web-TV, COM, Cobra, Java, etc, etc... -- Allen Campbell | Legacy systems, a.k.a systems that work. allenc@verinet.com | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 15:50:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA20713 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20697 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-141.camalott.com [208.229.74.141]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20736; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:51:11 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06393; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:49:15 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:49:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809022249.RAA06393@detlev.UUCP> To: grog@lemis.com CC: green@unixhelp.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> (message from Greg Lehey on Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:06:34 +0930) Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >> Guys, can we *please* start sending code snippets as plain text? MIME >> attachments are fine, just don't use base64. I will usually give code >> in plain text in a message a once-over, but it's more of a hassle to >> do so in base64. > Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? I don't know. Most MUAs that I've used handle text/* like anything else-- as an attachment. I can read MIME attachments fine, but it's extra work that, after a long day of work, makes the difference between me reading an attachment and hitting 'd'. Granted, it's not much work to decode it to another buffer. But let's consider Jordan's Theorem: If users outnumber the programmers 1000:1, then it's worth a programmer 1000 minutes to code something that will save each user 1 minute. > It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality > that a reasonable mailer should support. It would be nice, but it really seems more like it goes the other way around. Decide what your audience is likely to support, and use it. > 1. MIME MIME is the only real machine-readable standard for attachments, except the '---- cut here ----' convention (which wasn't frequently supported by MUAs anyway). Since non-conforming MUAs can read it fine, call it necessary if you're making attachments. > 2. base 64 Almost necessary if you're attaching binaries. (The alternative, uuencode, is probably less supported nowdays if sent as a MIME attachment, but I don't know.) > 3. 8 bit code No. This chokes MTAs. Every time I send a message with Soren's name written in 8-bit, I get about 9 or 10 MTA bounce messages. Most MUAs will not choke on it, thankfully. > 4. html IBWNI..., but it's a lot of cybercrud that's usually unnecessary. I haven't seen one html-formatted message that actually got benefit from being in html. Usually it's used by people using MS Outlook who assume it's universal. And, if at all possible, have a text/plain alternative. > 5. PostScript No. Too many tty's still. (I consider this part of 'images', although it seems less supported than your common rasters.) > 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) You mean M$'s RTF that Outlook prefers, or RFC-1563's text/enriched that Emacs supports? > 7. images Only when necessary. But since images to a list are usually rude (I mean impolite to send, not tasteless in content), then let's say that it is normally good to coordinate with the other party. Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 16:05:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22915 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:05:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.camalott.com (mail.camalott.com [208.203.140.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22891 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:05:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelh@gnu.org) Received: from detlev.UUCP (tex-141.camalott.com [208.229.74.141]) by mail.camalott.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21679; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:06:15 -0500 Received: (from joelh@localhost) by detlev.UUCP (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA07637; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:04:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from joelh) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:04:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809022304.SAA07637@detlev.UUCP> To: grog@lemis.com CC: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, green@unixhelp.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com> (message from Greg Lehey on Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:43:41 +0930) Subject: Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken? From: Joel Ray Holveck Reply-to: joelh@gnu.org References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org >>> Can't pine autodecode base64 transparently? >> Are you assuming that everybody here uses Pine? > No, I was just referring to Joel's mailer, since he was having trouble > with it. I'm not having trouble with it. I just don't care to use its attachment features to read a short snippet of code or review a patch. >>> It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality >>> that a reasonable mailer should support. > Now if I could find one that could automatically unmangle Lookout! > messages... What's that? Best, joelh -- Joel Ray Holveck - joelh@gnu.org - http://www.wp.com/piquan Fourth law of programming: Anything that can go wrong wi sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 17:15:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04766 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:15:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04755; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:15:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01046; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:12:41 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199809021712.RAA01046@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: asami@FreeBSD.ORG (Satoshi Asami) cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why no ldconfig for ELF? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:05:20 MST." <199809030005.RAA09222@vader.cs.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:12:41 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > As they say in Japan, "too many captains and the ship will climb up > the mountains". (Ok that sounds differently when translated, but it's > supposed to be a bad thing. :) Oh, I think it conveys the meaning quite well. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 18:43:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA17959 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from metronet.com (fohnix.metronet.com [192.245.137.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA17953 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:43:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pgilley@metronet.com) Received: from localhost by metronet.com with SMTP id AA04080 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for ); Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:43:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:43:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Phil Gilley To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: na.phone Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What happened to /usr/share/misc/na.phone in 2.2.7-RELEASE? I just noticed it's not there anymore, while inter.phone is. I realize it wasn't exactly up to date but it was handy to have. I'm not on the -current mailing list, so I don't know if this has been discussed already. Phil Gilley pgilley@metronet.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 18:46:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA18207 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:46:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18201 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08708; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:45:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Phil Gilley cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: na.phone In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 02 Sep 1998 20:43:27 CDT." Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:45:34 -0700 Message-ID: <8704.904787134@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It was *really* out of date and killed. > What happened to /usr/share/misc/na.phone in 2.2.7-RELEASE? I just > noticed it's not there anymore, while inter.phone is. I realize it > wasn't exactly up to date but it was handy to have. > > I'm not on the -current mailing list, so I don't know if this has > been discussed already. > > Phil Gilley > pgilley@metronet.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 19:24:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24770 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:24:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24760 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id MAA00907; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:36:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199809030236.MAA00907@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: Why no ldconfig for ELF? In-Reply-To: from Charles Youse at "Sep 2, 98 10:16:28 pm" To: cyouse@artemis.syncom.net (Charles Youse) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:36:39 +1000 (EST) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Charles Youse wrote: > > > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Satoshi Asami wrote: > > > As they say in Japan, "too many captains and the ship will climb up > > the mountains". (Ok that sounds differently when translated, but it's > > supposed to be a bad thing. :) > > The English cognate would be, "Too many cooks spoil the stew." ;) broth, not stew, in my part of the world. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Sep 2 20:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05222 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:37:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6563.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05217 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:37:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA06413; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:35:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980902233540.B1205@zappo> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:35:40 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Phil Gilley Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: na.phone References: <8704.904787134@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <8704.904787134@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 06:45:34PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 06:45:34PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > It was *really* out of date and killed. > > > What happened to /usr/share/misc/na.phone in 2.2.7-RELEASE? I just > > noticed it's not there anymore, while inter.phone is. I realize it > > wasn't exactly up to date but it was handy to have. I think the CVS log for the removed file will tell you where to get your own updated copy. I'm still waiting for somebody to submit a port. -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 06:32:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15751 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:32:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15736 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:32:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id GAA18248; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809031331.GAA18248@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma904829477.018234; Thu, 3 Sep 98 06:31:17 -0700 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (PC287-CAM [194.32.96.136]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id Q4J1A6LL; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:31:27 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsdparty-org@tcja.nl Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:30:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Accomidation for Arnhem WolrdCon Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi I've just tried to book a room (both single and double) at the cheaper hotel (Hotel Parkzicht), they are full. Is there anyone willing to share a twin room at the Hotel Molendal, with me? Or, has anyone found other similar priced lodging in Arnhem? Duncan PS. I not too bad and can bring forward my yearly bath (but I do smoke). To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 07:49:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24831 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24826 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:49:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id HAA04131; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809031448.HAA04131@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma904834078.004116; Thu, 3 Sep 98 07:47:58 -0700 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (PC287-CAM [194.32.96.136]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id Q4J1A63W; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:48:13 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsdparty-org@tcja.nl Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:47:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Fwd) Re: Accomidation for Arnhem WolrdCon Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Accomidation for Arnhem WolrdCon Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:45:40 > On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 02:30:53PM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > Hi > > > > I've just tried to book a room (both single and double) at the > > cheaper hotel (Hotel Parkzicht), they are full. Is there anyone > > willing to share a twin room at the Hotel Molendal, with me? Ahh I've just rung the Hotel Molendat and they are booked. Aparently their is a "festival" on (it's not the WoldCon). They say try again in two weeks! Can our friends in Arnham suggest any other places (otherwise we might need to sleep on the floor at TCJA!!!) Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 10:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22128 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:55:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1563.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22122 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02690; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:53:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980903135307.A311@zappo> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:53:07 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , BSD User Group Hamburg Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team References: <19980903120643.A20537@cons.org> <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 06:03:53AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 06:03:53AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > (including > many developments of interest which none of us could have > anticipated). Oh damn you Jordan. You're doing it again. Sure, there have been some past developments that few could have anticipated, but I'm pretty willing to bet that's not what you're referring to! Grr... :-) > we're sort of learning this as we go along (not many good books on > starting your own free OS project :-), but I think things have gone [I'm sure Terry could reccomend several ;-] -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 11:02:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA22792 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:02:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22787 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id MAA09859; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199809031801.MAA09859@lariat.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.49 (Beta) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:59:13 -0600 To: Tim Vanderhoek From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19980903135307.A311@zappo> References: <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> <19980903120643.A20537@cons.org> <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim: Could you copy the original letter (to which this must be a response) to "chat" so that there's a basis for discussion? It must have been posted to a list to which I'm not subscribed. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 12:07:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01338 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1609.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01314; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:07:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02746; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:52:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980903145239.C311@zappo> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:52:39 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: Satoshi Asami Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@NUXI.com Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/x11-wm/afterstep/pkg PLIST (more bsd.port.mk mods) References: <19980831002849.A5522@zappo> <199808310714.AAA08628@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199808310714.AAA08628@silvia.hip.berkeley.edu>; from Satoshi Asami on Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 12:14:24AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-ports -=> -chat] On Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 12:14:24AM -0700, Satoshi Asami wrote: > >>> user uses "pkg_add -p"? >> Well, I have very little sympathy for a user who is trying to do this. >> It's simply not supported for binary packages... > > It is. Otherwise, we might as well remove the -p option from pkg_add. In my (perhaps narrow) mind, pkg_tools != ports system. -p might be useful for the Desktop Contest judges, though. :) Besides, it's a ports __system__. Therefore, if individual ports don't support it, the system is broken and doesn't support it! ;-) > * Just for the record, ls(1) prints arrows from target -> source. > * Doesn't that strike anyone else as being totally backwards? > > But if "A is a symbolic link *to* B", would you write "A -> B" or "B -> > A"? :> B's data comes _out of_ A, hence I would write "B -> A". :-) -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 12:19:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA03175 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:19:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1609.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03170 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:19:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02778; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:17:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:17:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Amancio Hasty cc: BSD User Group Hamburg , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team In-Reply-To: <199809031540.IAA02021@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-hackers -=> -chat, maybe a new -list, "-nontech" or somesuch would be appropriate?] On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Amancio Hasty wrote: > In the past , I suggested that we should have a web area to keep track > of important projects to help bring focus and direction however we > got nowhere mostly due to lack of time and lack of volunteers. Like http://www.FreeBSD.ORG/projects/? I find that a gazillion (_GAZILLION_) times nicer than an "enter your own personal pet project" CGI. In fact, compliments to the person who's been organizing that page. It is very readable. (wosch?) -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 12:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05319 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1609.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05314 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:31:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02800; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:29:58 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: Brett Glass cc: Tim Vanderhoek , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team In-Reply-To: <199809031801.MAA09859@lariat.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > Could you copy the original letter (to which this must be a response) to > "chat" so that there's a basis for discussion? It must have been posted to > a list to which I'm not subscribed. Sorry. I normally try to mention which -list I've moved a message from (-hackers in this case). I'll send you a copy of the original (open offer to anyone), but reposting it here is left at the discretion of Jordan. [I can't imagine any reason he would object to reposting it, but common courtesy, and all... :-] It's really not that interesting, and terribly long. -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 13:31:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14818 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:31:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA14805 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA13504 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:44:47 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id VAA25908; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:44:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199809031944.VAA25908@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Accomidation for Arnhem WolrdCon In-Reply-To: <199809031448.HAA04131@mailgate.cadence.com> from Duncan Barclay at "Sep 3, 98 03:47:38 pm" To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:44:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsdparty-org@tcja.nl, hackersparty@tcja.nl (1st Dutch hackersparty list) X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org As Duncan Barclay wrote... > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: Self > To: Eivind Eklund > Subject: Re: Accomidation for Arnhem WolrdCon > Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk > Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:45:40 > > > On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 02:30:53PM +0000, Duncan Barclay wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > I've just tried to book a room (both single and double) at the > > > cheaper hotel (Hotel Parkzicht), they are full. Is there anyone > > > willing to share a twin room at the Hotel Molendal, with me? > > Ahh I've just rung the Hotel Molendat and they are booked. Aparently > their is a "festival" on (it's not the WoldCon). They say try again > in two weeks! > > Can our friends in Arnham suggest any other places (otherwise we > might need to sleep on the floor at TCJA!!!) Mind you: the info below is a foongrep on the telephone database, and I checked for the location of the hotel relative to the TCJA. A leading 'f' is a fax number. International dialing is +31-26-..... (loose the 026). I have no clue about prices... 026-4427441 hotel haarhuis, stationspln 1, 6811KG arnhem f 026-4427449 hotel haarhuis bv, stationspln 1, 6811KG arnhem... 026-4420792 hotel old dutch, stationspln 8, 6811KG arnhem... f 026-4454847 rijnhotel, golden tulip, onderlangs 10, 6812CG arnhem 026-4434642 rijnhotel arnhem golden tulip, onderlangs 10, 6812CG arnhem... There are more hotels, but they are further away. Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 14:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA27626 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA27617 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:39:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ycs@netvision.net.il) Received: from netvision.net.il (RAS2-p115.hfa.netvision.net.il [62.0.145.243]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA02766 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:34:14 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:38:53 +0300 From: Yoav Cohen-Sivan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is a bit long, bear with me - it comes from the heart. I've recently switched over to FreeBSD and have been lurking on the mailing lists for about a week or two. I see many people are discontent with the degradation of the SNR. I see developers fleeing certain mailing lists, especially -hackers since it seems to attract lots of inappropriate questions. Basically, I am seeing the beginnings of the Linux anarchy that drove me away, to what seemed an orderly place. Recent posts on -hackers have me scared. I don't want FreeBSD to deteriorate. I refuse to keep running from chaos and switching OSes as soon as they reach "critical user mass". My suggestion is to change most of the mailing lists to a "can't post for a week after you subscribe" mode. Anybody who is serious enough about a subject will lurk for a while just to get a feel, anyway. We can leave -questions, -newbies, -chat and -advocacy open. The latter two are meant for this kind of drivel. We definetely don't want to discourage newcomers by forcing them to wait a week for any help, so -questions and -newbies must stay open. People there should expect many "stupid" questions, that's why they are there helping. After subscribing to any other mailing list, the return notice from majordomo should explain that the subscriber is locked from posting for a week. I suggested the same about a year ago on some Linux lists and was attacked for trying to become a "Net Police". With the current state of affairs, I am sure a few of those people would now accept my suggestion with open arms. The pros here are obvious: we put an end to that knee-jerk reaction of "I just got stuck. Quick! Where is the nearest mail client?". No more people having a question, not bothering to check the charters out, subscribing to the first list they see and posting the same questions over and over again. We promote the "teach a man to fish, don't give him a fish" philosophy I see Jordan pushing again and again. After a week of lurking on a list, most anyone with a brain will get a feel for what is appropriate there, even if they haven't yet read the Handbook. And if someone can endure a week of -hackers or -current just to post a silly question - well, they've earned it ;-) As I said, the mess in the Linux scene drove me to look for something better. FreeBSD seems to fill that need. I like the order imposed by a core and committers etc. Let's keep it this way. I would very much like to at least lurk on discussions going on between people much more knowledgeable than I. I would love to lurk on architecture and design talks between core members. If they move to private lists because of too many "where is the power switch" questions, I am fubared. Yoav To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 15:05:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA01758 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01749 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:05:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id AAA05421; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:04:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:03:59 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 04 Sep 1998 00:03:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan's message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:38:53 +0300" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id PAA01754 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: > My suggestion is to change most of the mailing lists to a "can't post > for a week after you subscribe" mode. Anybody who is serious enough > about a subject will lurk for a while just to get a feel, anyway. We can > leave -questions, -newbies, -chat and -advocacy open. The latter two are > meant for this kind of drivel. We definetely don't want to discourage > newcomers by forcing them to wait a week for any help, so -questions and > -newbies must stay open. People there should expect many "stupid" > questions, that's why they are there helping. I second this suggestion. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 15:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA06245 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06160 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:24:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA14205; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:23:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA09258; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:23:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:23:02 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Yoav Cohen-Sivan Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3Cxzpbtowsvjl=2Efsf=40hrotti=2Eifi=2Euio=2Eno=3E=3B_from?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav__on_Fri=2C_Sep_04=2C_1998_a?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?t_12=3A03=3A58AM_+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 12:03:58AM +0200, Dag-Erling Coidan Smørgrav wrote: > Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: > > My suggestion is to change most of the mailing lists to a "can't post > > for a week after you subscribe" mode. Anybody who is serious enough > > about a subject will lurk for a while just to get a feel, anyway. We can > > leave -questions, -newbies, -chat and -advocacy open. The latter two are > > meant for this kind of drivel. We definetely don't want to discourage > > newcomers by forcing them to wait a week for any help, so -questions and > > -newbies must stay open. People there should expect many "stupid" > > questions, that's why they are there helping. > > I second this suggestion. The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. I think a moderated list for architecture discussions is a better way of handling this, and have thus volunteered to moderate one (I'd like not to have to, but it seems like the only way to get a really good list). Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 15:50:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11180 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11138 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ycs@netvision.net.il) Received: from netvision.net.il (RAS5-p35.hfa.netvision.net.il [62.0.147.35]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id BAA14350; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:45:21 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:50:00 +0300 From: Yoav Cohen-Sivan X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eivind@yes.no, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and > it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. > I can see two solutions: 1) Resubscribe using your regular posting address. It is an inconvenience, but a small _one-time_ inconvenience to pay for clean lists. 2) Add an option, so that when one subscribes he can list a set of e-mail addresses he'll use for posting. I have no idea how feasible #2 is, it sure sounds like a load on the mailing list server. It seems to me #1 is ideal. Out of curiosity, why would someone consciously subscribe from an address he doesn't use? Do you use aaa@bbb to post, but read from ccc@ddd? How many people do this routinely? > I think a moderated list for architecture discussions is a better way > of handling this, and have thus volunteered to moderate one (I'd like > not to have to, but it seems like the only way to get a really good > list). Now, _that_ is a lot of work. I can't see how everybody suffering a bit from #1 above is worse than slowly driving a couple of moderators crazy ;-) Yoav > > Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 16:10:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA13967 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:10:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13961 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02068; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:06:40 GMT (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199809031606.QAA02068@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan cc: eivind@yes.no, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:50:00 +0300." <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 16:06:40 +0000 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > > FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and > > it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. > > I can see two solutions: > > 1) Resubscribe using your regular posting address. It is an > inconvenience, but a small _one-time_ inconvenience to pay for clean > lists. In many cases it's actually completely infeasible. > 2) Add an option, so that when one subscribes he can list a set of > e-mail addresses he'll use for posting. This doesn't work either. > I have no idea how feasible #2 is, it sure sounds like a load on the > mailing list server. It seems to me #1 is ideal. Out of curiosity, why > would someone consciously subscribe from an address he doesn't use? Do > you use aaa@bbb to post, but read from ccc@ddd? How many people do this > routinely? Me, for starters. I probably have half a dozen places I send from, although mail is faked to look like it comes from yet another place, but all my subscriptions are to a third. This sort of setup is pretty common for anyone that moves around much. Also, mandating subscriptions and a cooling-off period makes it impossible to refer someone from one list to another or from completely outside the group. What you're proposing is nothing new, and while it might promise some small noise reduction it damages a number of important facets of the current structure that are very useful. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 16:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15182 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15174 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA14759; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:18:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA09507; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:18:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980904011815.33295@follo.net> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:18:15 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il>; from Yoav Cohen-Sivan on Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 01:50:00AM +0300 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 01:50:00AM +0300, Yoav Cohen-Sivan wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > > FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and > > it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. > > > > I can see two solutions: > > 1) Resubscribe using your regular posting address. It is an > inconvenience, but a small _one-time_ inconvenience to pay for clean > lists. > > 2) Add an option, so that when one subscribes he can list a set of > e-mail addresses he'll use for posting. > > I have no idea how feasible #2 is, it sure sounds like a load on the > mailing list server. It seems to me #1 is ideal. It is not convenient, especially if combined with a 'have to be on an address that has been subscribed for a long time to post' policy. > Out of curiosity, why would someone consciously subscribe from an > address he doesn't use? Do you use aaa@bbb to post, but read from > ccc@ddd? How many people do this routinely? _Many_, at least among the committers. I do it because I want to be able to move the list mail around by just changing my .forward, instead of having to unsubscribe and resubscribe all the lists. This is convenient e.g. if I go to visit and work with somebody... > > I think a moderated list for architecture discussions is a better way > > of handling this, and have thus volunteered to moderate one (I'd like > > not to have to, but it seems like the only way to get a really good > > list). > > Now, _that_ is a lot of work. I can't see how everybody suffering a bit > from #1 above is worse than slowly driving a couple of moderators crazy > ;-) Well, moderated lists generally have more benefits than closed-to-post lists. The problems are mostly when discussions start warping with the regular subscribers, anyway... Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:02:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA21730 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:02:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA21721 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:02:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA07608; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:31:10 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA14041; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:31:09 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980904093109.L606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:31:09 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: allen campbell Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mail's fate (was Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken?) References: <199809020322.WAA03118@detlev.UUCP> <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> <19980902174341.I606@freebie.lemis.com> <19980902095251.A4233@verinet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <19980902095251.A4233@verinet.com>; from allen campbell on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 09:52:51AM -0600 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 2 September 1998 at 9:52:51 -0600, allen campbell wrote: >>>> It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality >>>> that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers >>>> support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably >>>> (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I >>>> didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the >>>> things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: >>>> >>> (collection of "NO"s omitted). >> >> Why not? Do you enjoy not being able to read messages you receive? >> I'm not saying you should, for example, *send* HTML messages (see >> http://www.lemis.com/email.html for my view on that), but I still >> think it makes sense to be able to handle them when you receive them, >> and I would expect that a modern mailer should be able to handle *all* >> of them. > > HTML reads fine in Mozilla, mutt and many other mailers. The base > mailer has no business with HTML. Its job is to be there by default, > small, fast, standard and operate with as little overhead and > nonsense as possible. Expecting the base mailer to be a full > featured, contemporary program is Microsoft think. You want a > 'better' mailer? Obtain and install one; there are dozens to chose > from. You want to run a reliable, efficient server? Take comfort > in knowing that the base system hasn't been run through with HTML, > Base-64, MIME, Real Audio, Active X, RTF, Postscript, 0.5 GB of > fonts, Web-TV, COM, Cobra, Java, etc, etc... I think you're missing the point (but thanks for changing the subject line...) I'm not advocating sending messagesin HTML or other stuff. I'm just considering what a standard mailer should be able to display, not to send by default. I get lots of messages in strange formats, and it pisses me off to have to go and translate them manually. HTML is not a problem with mutt, as you say, but that doesn't mean I like receiving it: it just means I can read it when I get it, which is more than I can say for the Microsoft Wart attachments I keep getting. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:12:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23216 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:12:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23187 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA04193; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:24:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199809040024.KAA04193@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: mail's fate (was Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken?) In-Reply-To: <19980904093109.L606@freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Sep 4, 98 09:31:09 am" To: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:24:06 +1000 (EST) Cc: allenc@verinet.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: [...] > ... but that doesn't mean I like > receiving it: it just means I can read it when I get it, which is more > than I can say for the Microsoft Wart attachments I keep getting. As a matter of policy, I reply to those asking for a format I can read. I have one (ex-)supplier who only provides technical notes in that way. I no longer pay them for support and I no longer install their products. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:18:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA24513 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA24508 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:18:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA07691; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:38 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA14085; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:36 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980904094736.O606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Birrell Cc: allenc@verinet.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mail's fate (was Re: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken?) References: <19980904093109.L606@freebie.lemis.com> <199809040024.KAA04193@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199809040024.KAA04193@cimlogic.com.au>; from John Birrell on Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 10:24:06AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 4 September 1998 at 10:24:06 +1000, John Birrell wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > [...] >> ... but that doesn't mean I like >> receiving it: it just means I can read it when I get it, which is more >> than I can say for the Microsoft Wart attachments I keep getting. > > As a matter of policy, I reply to those asking for a format I can read. > I have one (ex-)supplier who only provides technical notes in that > way. I no longer pay them for support and I no longer install their > products. That's fine as long as you have the choice. I do some work for Compaq. The money's good, and I find it enables me to put up with the emetic nature of their mail system. But I still have to reply and ask for open formats when they send messages in proprietary formats. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:48:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA28793 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:48:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28788 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id RAA04685; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:48:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id RAA02690; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:45:39 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id SAA09495; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:45:38 -0600 Message-ID: <35F088FB.F21D9102@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 18:42:35 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> <19980904011815.33295@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > > Well, moderated lists generally have more benefits than closed-to-post > lists. The problems are mostly when discussions start warping with > the regular subscribers, anyway... Yeah, we tend to get a lot of discussions that should be moved to -chat more quickly. Perhaps a semi-moderated list would work well, where the "moderator(s)" can kill a topic? I don't know of Majordomo, or any other list manager, supports such a feature, but it would sure be nice. On Planet FreeBSD, such a kill would be a sure sign the thread needs to move to -chat or just DIE. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:51:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29756 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.119.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29715 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:51:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA18190; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:48:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id CAA10132; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:48:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19980904024855.00747@follo.net> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:48:55 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: Wes Peters Cc: Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> <19980904011815.33295@follo.net> <35F088FB.F21D9102@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <35F088FB.F21D9102@softweyr.com>; from Wes Peters on Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 06:42:35PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 06:42:35PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > Well, moderated lists generally have more benefits than closed-to-post > > lists. The problems are mostly when discussions start warping with > > the regular subscribers, anyway... > > Yeah, we tend to get a lot of discussions that should be moved to -chat > more quickly. > > Perhaps a semi-moderated list would work well, where the "moderator(s)" > can kill a topic? I don't know of Majordomo, or any other list manager, > supports such a feature, but it would sure be nice. > > On Planet FreeBSD, such a kill would be a sure sign the thread needs to > move to -chat or just DIE. This may a be a good idea for -hackers and -current - but for a good architecture list, I think we need a real moderator. We _don't_ want to get it over-trafficed and have the brilliant coders quit it. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 17:53:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA00255 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:53:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00220 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:53:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA07846; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:22:11 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA14140; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:22:10 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980904102210.S606@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:22:10 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jamie Bowden Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Mail formats (was: E-day problems: rtld-elf dlsym() broken?) References: <19980902160634.G606@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jamie Bowden on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 07:57:38AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, 2 September 1998 at 7:57:38 -0400, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> It seems to me that we should agree on some base set of functionality >> that a reasonable mailer should support. Most reasonable mailers >> support MIME nowadays, but the level of support varies considerably >> (that's one of the reasons I moved from elm; when I tried pine, I >> didn't have any trouble with MIME, but I just didn't like some of the >> things it did). I'll toss in a couple of features for discussion: >> >> 1. MIME >> 2. base 64 >> 3. 8 bit code >> 4. html >> 5. PostScript >> 6. RTF (can anybody decipher it?) >> 7. images >> >> Any others? Any comments? > > You know, I really don't want people clogging my mailbox with images and > other assorted crap. HTTP and FTP make it really easy for someone to put > something where I can get to it, and mail me a pointer. Mail is 7 bit > ASCII. I can see good reason to move to one of the 8 bit standards for > support of foreign language character sets, but I really don't care to > read anything that comes as html, a word document, or some other screwed > up format. Fine, but being able to display the attachments has little to do with people clogging up your mailbox. Just because you can't read it doesn't mean it can't clog. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 18:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02334 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:03:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA02290; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:02:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmb) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199809040102.SAA02290@hub.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-Reply-To: <35F088FB.F21D9102@softweyr.com> from Wes Peters at "Sep 4, 98 06:42:35 pm" To: wes@softweyr.com (Wes Peters) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Cc: eivind@yes.no, ycs@netvision.net.il, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Wes Peters wrote: > Eivind Eklund wrote: > > > > Well, moderated lists generally have more benefits than closed-to-post > > lists. The problems are mostly when discussions start warping with > > the regular subscribers, anyway... > > Yeah, we tend to get a lot of discussions that should be moved to -chat > more quickly. > > Perhaps a semi-moderated list would work well, where the "moderator(s)" > can kill a topic? I don't know of Majordomo, or any other list manager, > supports such a feature, but it would sure be nice. how do you kill a thread? this technology has defied usenet for years ;) jmb > > On Planet FreeBSD, such a kill would be a sure sign the thread needs to > move to -chat or just DIE. > > -- > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 > Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 18:51:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08518 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:51:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08511 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:51:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id SAA04982; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id SAA03859; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:48:50 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id TAA09831; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:48:48 -0600 Message-ID: <35F097CA.85E03BD8@softweyr.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:45:46 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tim Vanderhoek CC: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team References: <19980903120643.A20537@cons.org> <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> <19980903135307.A311@zappo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Tim Vanderhoek wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 06:03:53AM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > we're sort of learning this as we go along (not many good books on > > starting your own free OS project :-), but I think things have gone > > [I'm sure Terry could reccomend several ;-] I think he's still waiting for Jordan and Linus to colloborate on one. We can ask Theo to write the preface, and give it a glowing review in Daemon News. If you're really NICE (or offer a huge up-front cash payment), you might even get Grog to shadow-write for you. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 21:18:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21558 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:18:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21553 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:18:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02547; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:17:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:38:53 +0300." <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 21:17:14 -0700 Message-ID: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > This is a bit long, bear with me - it comes from the heart. And expresses many sentiments I agree with. Well said. > My suggestion is to change most of the mailing lists to a "can't post > for a week after you subscribe" mode. Anybody who is serious enough Actually, the problem is even simpler than that. If we restricted posting to ONLY those who subscribe, rather than just any random person (most of our casual posters do not subscribe to -hackers), it would also cut way back on the abuse since you'd have to eat what you served, so to speak. :) I'm all in favor of trying that out, myself. I think it's time, at least for lists like -hackers. Lists like questions can and should remain fully open. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 21:20:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA21830 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:20:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21818 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02568; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:18:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Eivind Eklund cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Coidan_Sm=F8rgrav?= , Yoav Cohen-Sivan , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:23:02 +0200." <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 21:18:57 -0700 Message-ID: <2565.904882737@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my I think there would be some collateral damage but, compared with the scenario of a rapid exodus of freebsd hacker types from -hackers, definitely the lesser of two evils. People can always just start subscribing and posting from the same address too - I've been doing that for ages and it's no trouble, really. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 21:38:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23585 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:38:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bamboo.verinet.com (bamboo.verinet.com [204.144.246.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23579 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Received: from struct. (daisy18.verinet.com [199.45.181.242]) by bamboo.verinet.com (8.8.8/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA28000; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:37:08 -0600 Received: from verinet.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by struct. (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03087; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from allenc@verinet.com) Message-ID: <35EF6E62.C53627EB@verinet.com> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:36:50 -0600 From: Allen Campbell X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jkh@time.cdrom.com CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > This is a bit long, bear with me - it comes from the heart. > > Actually, the problem is even simpler than that. If we restricted > posting to ONLY those who subscribe, rather than just any random > person. (most of our casual posters do not subscribe to -hackers), > it would also cut way back on the abuse since you'd have to eat what > you served, so to speak. :) > This seems very reasonable. It justifiably raises the bar. I can't see myself arguing that I should be able to post to a list without being a member and I'll bet most would agree. I subscribe to hackers-digest. I would hope that qualifies. > I'm all in favor of trying that out, myself. I think it's time, at > least for lists like -hackers. Lists like questions can and should > remain fully open. -Stable perhaps? It would encourage -stable subscriptions. -- Allen Campbell | Lurking at the bottom of the allenc@verinet.com | gravity well, getting old. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 3 22:17:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29252 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:17:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29247 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:17:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19655; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:16:12 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:16:09 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-Reply-To: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org While we're on the subject, would it be possible to make the subject's of posts to various freebsd-* lists be something like: Subject: [freebsd-chat] Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists Several mailing lists I am on do this currently and it makes reading mail that little bit easier. Nick -- Email: ncb05@uow.edu.au - http://rabble.uow.edu.au/~nick Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A "When in doubt, ask someone wiser than yourself..." -unknown To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 01:44:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA24958 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24952 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:44:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id KAA23890; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:43:31 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:43:31 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund Cc: "Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=2C?= Yoav Cohen-Sivan" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 04 Sep 1998 10:43:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Eivind Eklund's message of "Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:23:02 +0200" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id BAA24954 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund writes: > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and > it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. So, am I the only hacker in the world to have added sender alias support to his mailing list package? I'm sure it would be a SMOP in Majordomo. Allow each subscriber to specify one or several aliases from which he/she wishes to post, but to which mail will not be sent. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 02:10:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27804 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:10:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tyree.iii.co.uk (tyree.iii.co.uk [195.89.149.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27799 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@iii.co.uk) From: nik@iii.co.uk Received: from carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (carrig.strand.iii.co.uk [192.168.7.25]) by tyree.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA21130; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:09:08 +0100 (BST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by carrig.strand.iii.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA27600; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:07:47 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19980904100746.A27587@iii.co.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:07:46 +0100 To: Nicholas Charles Brawn , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nicholas Charles Brawn on Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 03:16:09PM +1000 Organization: interactive investor Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 03:16:09PM +1000, Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote: > While we're on the subject, would it be possible to make the subject's > of posts to various freebsd-* lists be something like: > Subject: [freebsd-chat] Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists > > Several mailing lists I am on do this currently and it makes reading > mail that little bit easier. Ye gods no. What works for me is to use Procmail to filter messages from each list into a list specific mailbox (one for hackers, one for chat, one for questions, and so on). Then run xbuffy, telling it to watch all these mailboxes. You then get an alert when new mail arrives, and an indication of which mailbox it has arrived in. Then it's just a simple case of middle-clicking the mailbox name to fire up an xterm running Mutt on the correct list. Alternatively, I could configure Mutt to know about the different lists, and work through them within one instance of the program, but I prefer the multiple window approach. N -- --+==[ Nik Clayton becomes Just Another Perl Contractor in 8 days. ]==+-- She's still dead. Deal with it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 02:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28216 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:17:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28209 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:17:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08725; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 04:16:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <19980904041626.12362@futuresouth.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 04:16:26 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: nik@iii.co.uk Cc: Nicholas Charles Brawn , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> <19980904100746.A27587@iii.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88 In-Reply-To: <19980904100746.A27587@iii.co.uk>; from nik@iii.co.uk on Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 10:07:46AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 10:07:46AM +0100, nik@iii.co.uk woke me up to tell me: > > Then run xbuffy, telling it to watch all these mailboxes. You then get > an alert when new mail arrives, and an indication of which mailbox it > has arrived in. > > Then it's just a simple case of middle-clicking the mailbox name to > fire up an xterm running Mutt on the correct list. Alternatively, I could > configure Mutt to know about the different lists, and work through them > within one instance of the program, but I prefer the multiple window > approach. Aw, now what fun is that? I have 1 mutt session, and a row (from top left to top right corner ;) of xbiffs, and I just switch folders (l ? for me) when I feel the need to clear them out. Matt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 03:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA03699 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 03:19:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA03694 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 03:19:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id MAA10446; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:17:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from w@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from w@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01022; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:30:11 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from w) Message-ID: <19980903213010.A1004@panke.de> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:30:10 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider To: Brett Glass , Tim Vanderhoek Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team References: <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> <19980903120643.A20537@cons.org> <11246.904827833@time.cdrom.com> <19980903135307.A311@zappo> <199809031801.MAA09859@lariat.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i In-Reply-To: <199809031801.MAA09859@lariat.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 11:59:13AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 1998-09-03 11:59:13 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > Could you copy the original letter (to which this must be a response) to > "chat" so that there's a basis for discussion? It must have been posted to > a list to which I'm not subscribed. Go to the freebsd search page (http://www.freebsd.org/search/) and search for the Message-ID: <19980903120643.A20537@cons.org> Wolfram To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 08:05:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02736 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgate.cadence.com (mailgate.Cadence.COM [158.140.2.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA02731 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:05:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.cadence.com (8.8.5/8.6.8) id IAA10078; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809041503.IAA10078@mailgate.cadence.com> Received: from symnt3.cadence.com(194.32.101.100) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (mjr-v1.2) id xma904921426.010047; Fri, 4 Sep 98 08:03:46 -0700 Received: from pc287-cam.cadence.com (PC287-CAM [194.32.96.136]) by symnt3.Cadence.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id Q4J1A7VY; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:03:53 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Duncan Barclay" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:03:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: HEADS UP: 3.0 enters BETA status in 12 days! Reply-to: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: Your message of "Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:06:49 CDT." <3.0.5.32.19980905090649.00a372b0@mail.dataplex.net> In-reply-to: <5128.904918139@time.cdrom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Moved to -chat > > At some point (perhaps immediately), some committers will have to be able > > to "bite the bullet" and admit that their code will not be appropriate > > for inclusion in the 3.0.0 release. > > I know of pretty much everything on the horizon at the moment and > none of it is in the "immediate" class, so it's something we can > afford to postpone for now. Will you be mentioning this in your "State of the Union" address in Arnhem? > - Jrodan Duncan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 08:21:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04188 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:21:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from word.smith.net.au (castles315.castles.com [208.214.167.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04177 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:21:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03361; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:18:08 GMT (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Message-Id: <199809040818.IAA03361@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists In-reply-to: Your message of "04 Sep 1998 10:43:29 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:18:06 +0000 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA04181 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Eivind Eklund writes: > > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > > FreeBSD.ORG account except for the lists where I made a mistake), and > > it is not very practical to have to post through those addresses. > > So, am I the only hacker in the world to have added sender alias > support to his mailing list package? I'm sure it would be a SMOP in > Majordomo. Allow each subscriber to specify one or several aliases > from which he/she wishes to post, but to which mail will not be sent. Is this based on envelope or message headers? If it's based on message headers I guess it still leaves a small window for creative abuse. If it's based on the envelope sender, then it still leaves us rovers screwed. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 08:45:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08328 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08319 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA05460; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADS UP: 3.0 enters BETA status in 12 days! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:03:18 -0000." <199809041503.IAA10078@mailgate.cadence.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:44:31 -0700 Message-ID: <5456.904923871@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Will you be mentioning this in your "State of the Union" address in > Arnhem? I'll talk about whatever I manage to think of between now and then, I guess. I always write my presentations at the very last moment. It's something of a tradition. ;) I do also plan to be there for several days, and the Arnhem conference looks to be a rather informal ongoing gathering so I certainly hope to be able to address whatever questions the various attendees have during that time. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 10:39:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26554 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:39:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA26545 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:39:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA04802; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:37:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:37:47 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith Cc: Eivind Eklund , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <199809040818.IAA03361@word.smith.net.au> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 04 Sep 1998 19:37:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:18:06 +0000" Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA26548 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mike Smith writes: > > So, am I the only hacker in the world to have added sender alias > > support to his mailing list package? I'm sure it would be a SMOP in > > Majordomo. Allow each subscriber to specify one or several aliases > > from which he/she wishes to post, but to which mail will not be sent. > Is this based on envelope or message headers? If it's based on message > headers I guess it still leaves a small window for creative abuse. It's based on message headers (sender if present, from if not). Considering that there are many ways to forge mail undetectably, I don't consider it a big problem that it can be easily circumvened. It stops spam, and it stops uninformed third parties. DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 10:43:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27354 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:43:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27346 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:43:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from hrotti.ifi.uio.no (2602@hrotti.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.15]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id TAA05139 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:42:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by hrotti.ifi.uio.no ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:42:47 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mr. Architect Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 04 Sep 1998 19:42:47 +0200 Message-ID: Lines: 61 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA27350 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [not by me; found it drifting on the net] Dear Mr. Architect Please design and build me a house. I am not quite sure of what I need, so you should use your discretion. My house should have between two and forty-five bedrooms. Just make sure the plans are such that the bedrooms can be easily added or deleted. When you bring the blueprints to me, I will make the final decicion of what I want. Also bring me the cost breakdown for each configuration so that I can arbitarily pick one. Keep in mind that the house I ultimatly choose must cost less than the one I am currently living in. Make sure, however, that you correct all the deficiencies that exist in my current house (the floor of my kitchen vibrates when I walk across it, and the walls don't have nearly enough insulation in them). As you design, also keep in mind that I want to keep yearly maintenance costs as low as possible. This should mean the incorporation of extra cost feature like aluminium, vinyl, or composite siding. (If you choose not to specify aluminium, be prepared to explain your decision in detail.) Please take care that modern design practices and the latest materials are used in construction of the house, as I want it to be a showplace for the most up-to-date ideas and methods. Be alerted, however, that the kitchen should be designed to accomodate, among other things, my 1952 Gibson refrigerator. To insure that you are building the correct house for our entire family, make certain that you contact each of our children, and also our in-laws. My mother-in-law will have very strong feelings about how the house should be designed, since she visits us at least once a year. Make sure that you weigh all of these options carefully and come to the right decision. I, however, retain the right to overrule any choices that you make. Please don't bother me with small details right now. Your job is to develop the overall plans for the house: get the big picture. At this time, for example; it is not appropriate to be choosing the color of the carpet. However, keep in mind that my wife likes blue. Also, do not worry at this time about aquiring the resources to build the house itself. Your first priority is to develop detailed plans and specifications. Once I approve these plans, however, I would expect the house to be under roof within 48 hours. While you are designing this house specifically for me, keep in mind that sooner or later I will have to sell it to someone else. It therefore should have appeal to a wide variety of potential buyers. Please make sure before you finalize the plans that there is a consensus of the population in my area that they like the features this house has. _I advice you to run up and look at my neighbor's house he constructed last year. We like it a great deal. It has many features that we would also like in our new home, particularly the 75-foot swimming pool. With careful engineering, I believe that that you can design this into our new house without impacting the final cost. Please prepare a complete set of blueprints. It is not nescessary at this time to do the real design, since they will be used only for constuction bids. Be advised, however, that you will be held accountable for any increase of construction costs as a result of later design changes. You must be thrilled to be working on as an interresting project like this! To be able to use the latest techniques and materials and to be given such freedom in your designs is something that can't happen very often. Contact me as soon as possible with your complete ideas and plans. PS: My wife has just told me that she disagrees with many of the instructions I've given you in this letter. As architect, it is your responsibility to resolve these differences. I have tried in the past and have been unable to accomplish this. If you can't handle this responsibility, I will have to find an other architect. PPS: Perhaps what I need is not a house after all, but a travel trailer. Please advise me as soon as possible if this is the case. -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 11:30:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06419 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06407 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id LAA10343; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA06978; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:28:29 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id MAA13830; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:28:28 -0600 Message-ID: <35F18210.6B58C555@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 12:25:20 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eivind Eklund CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> <19980904011815.33295@follo.net> <35F088FB.F21D9102@softweyr.com> <19980904024855.00747@follo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 04, 1998 at 06:42:35PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > > > Perhaps a semi-moderated list would work well, where the "moderator(s)" > > can kill a topic? I don't know of Majordomo, or any other list manager, > > supports such a feature, but it would sure be nice. > > This may a be a good idea for -hackers and -current - but for a good > architecture list, I think we need a real moderator. We _don't_ want > to get it over-trafficed and have the brilliant coders quit it. As usual, we're in violent agreement here. IIRC, the original charter of -hackers was for people hacking on FreeBSD; writing system apps that need intimate knowlege of the system, but not necessarily for the core team. I think the idea of an architecture list that is moderated is a great idea, but moderating such a list can become a BIG job. Another feature that would be great would be to allow "lurker", or read-only, subscriptions for those who would like to follow the discussions but are not yet ready to participate. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 11:43:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08801 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08792; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.1 [OUT])) id LAA10461; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA07245; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:42:13 -0700 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id MAA13933; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:42:12 -0600 Message-ID: <35F18548.3A16A42A@softweyr.com> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 12:39:04 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jonathan M. Bresler" CC: eivind@yes.no, ycs@netvision.net.il, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <199809040102.SAA02290@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > > how do you kill a thread? > this technology has defied usenet for years ;) > For this purpose, it would probably be enough to just recognize the subject minus any "re:", "fwd:", etc candy and bounce it back to the sender with a nicely-worded nastygram that the subject has been killed. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 12:39:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA20127 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20122 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:39:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Received: from dal.net (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05874; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:38:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@dal.net) Message-ID: <35F041BE.40791D32@dal.net> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:38:38 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-0827 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <2565.904882737@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > The problem with this is the same as requiring subscriptions for > > posting at all - a lot of us are subscribed through different accounts > > than we post from (I, for instance, am subscribed through my > > I think there would be some collateral damage but, compared with the > scenario of a rapid exodus of freebsd hacker types from -hackers, > definitely the lesser of two evils. People can always just start > subscribing and posting from the same address too - I've been doing > that for ages and it's no trouble, really. :) It's extremely easy to set up a parallel "posters" list with majordomo and have people subscribe and unsubscribe their own alternate e-mail addresses so no one from the project has to deal with that. I'm sure Jonathan knows how to do that, on the off chance he doesn't I'll be glad to send the details. It's worked well for me and saves a lot of administration overhead. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** At Barry (a small town in south Wales) hidden cameras have had to be installed to keep watch on the town's CCTV [Closed Circuit Television] to record acts of vandalism against the CCTV. - Privacy Forum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 13:17:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26471 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:17:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp6509.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.208.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26460 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06336; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:15:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tim) Message-ID: <19980904161545.A263@zappo> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:15:45 -0400 From: Tim Vanderhoek To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Yoav Cohen-Sivan Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <2543.904882634@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 09:17:14PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 09:17:14PM -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm all in favor of trying that out, myself. I think it's time, at > least for lists like -hackers. Lists like questions can and should > remain fully open. Don't. If you really want to try it out, go for a couple months trial period where, instead of removing messages, messages are tagged with a "This message would have been filtered if..." tag. Obviously, this is a much more benign way of measuring the potential benefit:harm ratio. It certainly would be interesting. A lot of posts from John Dyson recently would have been tagged. More recently, one from Kirk McKusick would have been tagged, too. More interesting, I (completely, 100% believe), would be the number of messages _not_ tagged. -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 18:06:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11897 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:06:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11881 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:06:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01849; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phoenix.phoenixos.com (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA26535; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 21:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199808310011.SAA29340@lariat.lariat.org> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 21:06:47 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Virginia Tech From: John Baldwin To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Hardware problems with NICs Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 31-Aug-98 Brett Glass wrote: > Sounds as if you may have mapped one serial port over the other's I/O > addresses or IRQ instead of disabling it. Try using another IRQ for your > NIC and leaving COM2: enabled. Also, separate the ranges of I/O ports on > the NICs more. Finally, don't use segment C800. It'll conflict with > graphics cards. If that's a memory-mapped buffer, find another spot for it. > If it's a ROM address, disable the ROM. > > --Brett I fixed the problem with sio0 just fine (it turns out I had disabled both com ports, so I enabled com1 and now I don't get any errors.) I still can't get any of the three 3c503 NIC's that I have to work, no matter what I/O port or memory address I use. However, they have passed the 3Com diags in every config that I have tried so far. I even tried re-enabling com2 so that the machine would be in the same exact config as earlier, but the ed driver still refuses to find any of them. I tried one of the cards with the GENERIC kernel on another machine and it found the card just fine. The thing is, this network card worked in my 486 motherboard perfectly fine until I tried to put two of them in together. Has anyone else had any problems with 486 motherboards similar to this? The diags pass in DOS, but both my custom kernel and the GENERIC kernel cannot find the cards. This is getting quite annoying. > At 07:50 PM 8/30/98 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> >>Hi all, >> >>I've been having some problems with my el cheapo 3Com 3c503 adapters. >>Originally, I started out with 1 adapter with a BNC port at io port 0x300, >>memory 0xd800, and irq 5. This worked fine. I then place another 3Com 3c503 >>with a UTP port (intending for this machine to be a gateway) at io port > 0x310, >>memory 0xc800, and irq 3 (I disabled com2). Both of the adapters passed the >>3Com diagnostics, but FreeBSD does not detect either one. Further, after I >>took out the card with the UTP port, FreeBSD doesn't detect the old one > that it >>used to. If I put a 3c509 in the machine, the GENERIC kernel will recognize >>that card fine but it won't find any combination of 3c503's that are in the >>machine. Note that for every configuration I tried, the cards all passed the >>3Com diags, but the kernel did not recognize the cards. The machine is a >>Am486dx4/100, btw. And now it doesn't even work with the same config that > used >>to work earlier. :( If anyone has any suggestions, I would greatly > appreciate >>them. >> >>Also, as a side note, I've been getting some strange errors on boot up >>regarding my first com port. Here is an extract of my dmesg: >> >>... >>sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 >>sio0: irq maps 0x1 0x1 0x1 0x1 >>sio0: probe failed test(s); 0 1 2 4 6 7 9 >>sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa >>sio0: type 8250 >>sio1: disabled, not probed >>... - --- John Baldwin - -- jobaldwi@vt.edu -- jbaldwin@freedomnet.com -- ---- http://www.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ ---- "I waited for the Lord on high/I waited and He heard my cry." - Petra -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNfCOpIjYza302vYpAQF8OwL+PGz3n7Czg3rz1VUgyhv4/k9gN2hN6/Kf OUYpiZFUU3xRlVNOb9MuJML9iLJgw/pdvZ2X70650Nn74ZCSyOlX1me/2v6w2nF7 HQ45INXYv0RbvBdwdtz0sT8Bynhzrfcd =Xfto -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 20:12:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00185 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:12:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from roma.coe.ufrj.br (roma.coe.ufrj.br [146.164.53.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00177 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:12:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jonny@jonny.eng.br) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by roma.coe.ufrj.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17331; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:11:05 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from jonny) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199809050311.AAA17331@roma.coe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: An Open Letter To The FreeBSD Core Team In-Reply-To: <199809032338.QAA05561@usr09.primenet.com> from Terry Lambert at "Sep 3, 98 11:38:50 pm" To: tlambert@primenet.com (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 00:11:05 -0300 (EST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, bsdhh@bsdhh.org, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Not copying to -hackers, to reduce the already enough noise level. Instead, following up to -chat. #define quoting(Terry Lambert) // > Perhaps , a mediation panel or court consisting of a small odd number // > of members can help address some of your concerns. // > The primary requirement to be a panel member is mentally balance , // > good listening skills and technically competent. // // Any voting body in a small organization should *never* consist // of an odd number of members. // // In the event of a tie, the result should be treated as a vote for // the status quo. // // Anything else quickly oscillates out of control, since it's // overdriven by political in-fighting. // // I'm not speaking for or against the idea, at this time; just that // an implementation with an odd number of voters models very quickly // into factionalism. That why some legislation changes in Brazil require two-thirds of the voters to approve a change in the status quo. I doubt Brazil is the only country doing this. Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and Unix. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Sep 4 20:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA04778 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04758; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:49:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA03748; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:48:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980904204811.A3167@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:48:11 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) Sept. Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, September 10. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Nicole Harrington and David Lowe will tag-team on the topic of qmail. Nicole's experience is using qmail in an ISP environment where David's is using qmail for huge mailing list servers. Among the topics to be covered are: * integrating qmail into a user environment * MUA patching * maildir format * advantages & disadvantages of qmail in that context * spam handling with qmail ==> Jordan Hubbard will give a short talk about the recent 2.2.7 and the upcoming 2.2.8 and 3.0 (Yeah!) release. ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on September 12 at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Cow Palace in Daly City. See http://www.freebsd-support.com/install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine for use at the Install-a-thons. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 8:00ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.arachna.com/freebsd/freebsd-sf.html http://www.reef.com http://www.freebsd-support.com Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before September 10th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com $Id: Sept98Announce.txt,v 1.2 1998/09/05 01:34:17 jgrosch Exp $ -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 03:01:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08620 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:01:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08615 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:01:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06060; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:00:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980905030034.A6049@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:00:34 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Counter page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org FreeBSD Counter Project The FreeBSD Counter project and BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) have put up the first public beta of it's counter page. The Counter project is an attempt to gauge the installed base of FreeBSD. We current do not have a very good idea as to what is our installed base, how FreeBSD is being used and by whom. Because of this, FreeBSD is at a disadvantage when talking to ISVs and hardware and software vendors. You are invited to register with the counter project. The counter page can be found at : http://superior.mooseriver.com/FbsdCounter.html Couple of caveats: * This is a beta release. It is not perfect and will have a few bugs and flaws. If you find any please let us know. * You will be talking to a web server over a slow connection (28.8KB). Do NOT expect miracles! When most of the bugs and kinks have been shook out, the page will be moved to a machine with a faster connection (T1 or T3) * Suggestions and comments are welcome! * The database behind this page was built from the email registrations sent to Walnut Creek. If you registered at the time of an install chances are you are in this database. * Your information is held to be confidential. Only those on the project, FreeBSD core group, and Walnut Creek CDROM will ever see this information. It will _NOT_ be handed over to spamers, direct marketers, and any of the other assorted bozos. Josef (jgrosch@MooseRiver.com) -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 03:02:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08757 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:02:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [208.138.27.81]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08752 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:02:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA06076; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19980905030145.B6049@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:01:45 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD Retail page Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Retail outlets for FreeBSD A common question for new users of FreeBSD is, "Where can I get a copy of FreeBSD"? Aside from Walnut Creek CDROM (http://www.cdrom.com) there are a number of retail outlets world wide. A partial list can be found at (http://www.freebsd-support.com/Retail.html). Notice this is a partial list. We are collecting addresses (snail, email, and web) of retail outlets for FreeBSD. So, send us the address of you friendly (or not-so-friendly) store that carries FreeBSD. This notice is posted twice a month, on the 1st and the 15th. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 04:14:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA16797 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ifi.uio.no (ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA16792 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 04:14:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dag-erli@ifi.uio.no) Received: from bilskirnir.ifi.uio.no (2602@bilskirnir.ifi.uio.no [129.240.64.135]) by ifi.uio.no (8.8.8/8.8.7/ifi0.2) with ESMTP id NAA09407; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:13:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from dag-erli@localhost) by bilskirnir.ifi.uio.no ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:13:18 +0200 (MET DST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan Cc: eivind@yes.no, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Better SNR suggestion for the mailing lists References: <35EF0C6D.C3ACAD5F@netvision.net.il> <19980904002302.28650@follo.net> <35EF1D18.FF4A06B3@netvision.net.il> Organization: University of Oslo, Department of Informatics X-url: http://www.stud.ifi.uio.no/~dag-erli/ X-other-addresses: 'finger dag-erli@ifi.uio.no' for a list X-disclaimer-1: The views expressed in this article are mine alone, and do X-disclaimer-2: not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or X-disclaimer-3: company with which I am or have been affiliated. X-Stop-Spam: http://www.cauce.org/ From: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no (Dag-Erling Coidan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= ) Date: 05 Sep 1998 13:13:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: Yoav Cohen-Sivan's message of "Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:50:00 +0300" Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id EAA16793 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Yoav Cohen-Sivan writes: > I have no idea how feasible #2 is, it sure sounds like a load on the > mailing list server. It seems to me #1 is ideal. Out of curiosity, why > would someone consciously subscribe from an address he doesn't use? Do > you use aaa@bbb to post, but read from ccc@ddd? How many people do this > routinely? I do it a lot. One reason is that I can sort my mail according to the recipient address (everything is forwarded to one account). Another reason is that different mail addresses convey different messages ( is a student, but is a developer and consultant, and is a FreeBSD committer) DES -- Dag-Erling Smørgrav - dag-erli@ifi.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 05:57:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA22242 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 05:57:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA22237 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 05:57:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jobaldwi@vt.edu) Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24938; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:02:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phoenix.phoenixos.com (jobaldwi.campus.vt.edu [198.82.67.63]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11353; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 08:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: jobaldwi@vt.edu Organization: Virginia Tech From: John Baldwin To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Hardware problems with NICs Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 05-Sep-98 John Baldwin wrote: > On 31-Aug-98 Brett Glass wrote: >> Sounds as if you may have mapped one serial port over the other's I/O >> addresses or IRQ instead of disabling it. Try using another IRQ for your >> NIC and leaving COM2: enabled. Also, separate the ranges of I/O ports on >> the NICs more. Finally, don't use segment C800. It'll conflict with >> graphics cards. If that's a memory-mapped buffer, find another spot for it. >> If it's a ROM address, disable the ROM. >> >> --Brett > > I fixed the problem with sio0 just fine (it turns out I had disabled both com > ports, so I enabled com1 and now I don't get any errors.) I still can't get > any > of the three 3c503 NIC's that I have to work, no matter what I/O port or > memory > address I use. However, they have passed the 3Com diags in every config that > I > have tried so far. I even tried re-enabling com2 so that the machine would > be > in the same exact config as earlier, but the ed driver still refuses to find > any of them. I tried one of the cards with the GENERIC kernel on another > machine and it found the card just fine. The thing is, this network card > worked in my 486 motherboard perfectly fine until I tried to put two of them > in together. Has anyone else had any problems with 486 motherboards similar > to this? The diags pass in DOS, but both my custom kernel and the GENERIC > kernel cannot find the cards. This is getting quite annoying. I just booted off of a 2.2.7 boot floppy and it found one of the network cards just fine. I think that either my hard drive or hard drive controller is messed up, or possibly my motherboard's BIOS as I have been having some weird hd errors very recently. - --- John Baldwin - -- jobaldwi@vt.edu -- jbaldwin@freedomnet.com -- ---- http://www.freedomnet.com/~jbaldwin/ ---- "I waited for the Lord on high/I waited and He heard my cry." - Petra -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQB1AwUBNfE1NYjYza302vYpAQH+QwMAwpbW/pFOH+NKxXXmtxjnQBL7Iw8caNNz oUUT1sdkz3/2AFPhWHfcfAwis40s5w1hFrYH/dzXaVHZmdbVgqH1PM0Ib0gXAZ41 IveLRrcqLe8M1JQIhCOq5zHv8UngKfkm =rGhW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 07:32:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27639 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost.my.domain (ppp1570.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.249.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27631 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hoek@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from localhost (tim@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00258; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:31:36 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ac199@hwcn.org) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: tim owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:31:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Vanderhoek X-Sender: tim@localhost Reply-To: ac199@hwcn.org To: chris/reman cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Assembler with FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <35F107A4.F617A64E@student.unsw.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [-hackers -=> -chat, cc: trimmed] On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, chris/reman wrote: > it's like someone decided to release a version of gcc with a ; > at the start of statements, and the logic was x + y = z, just Well, putting ';' at the start of statements changes very little, really... Hm. Would that mean if (a=b==c) {} Would do what I want, now? Kule. ;-) -- This .sig is not innovative, witty, or profund. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 18:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA08213 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:57:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.4.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08206 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:57:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA21373; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:56:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:56:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Garrett Wollman Message-Id: <199809060156.VAA21373@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> To: Charles Youse Cc: Dusk Auriel Sykotik , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Where can I find C In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org < said: [Redirected to the correct list.] > Nah, it'll draw a warning, perhaps .... but this is perfectly legal C. >> You can't use printf(), you didn't include stdio.h :) Mr. Whazisname is correct. Standard C does not permit variadic functions to be called without a declaration in scope. The minimal hello, world program in C would be: ------------------------------------ int printf(const char *, ...); /* supply correct prototype */ int main(void) /* as a special exception, main is allowed to take no args */ { printf("Hello, World!\n"); return 0; /* main MUST return a value if it returns at all */ } ------------------------------------ I don't recall whether a non-prototype declaration is permitted for variadic functions. I think it is, but would not be surprised to see non-prototype declarations dropped completely from C 99. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Sep 5 22:44:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA01409 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:50:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01402 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:50:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id RAA03610; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:49:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:49:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Dusk Auriel Sykotik cc: Scott Sewall , Daniel , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Where can I find C In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [this is only relevant to chat now] % cat b.c main() {printf("yes I can\n");} % gcc b.c % ./a.out yes I can % -- Yan I don't have the password + Jan Koum But the path is chainlinked | Spelled Jan, pronounced Yan. There. So if you've got the time | Web: http://www.best.com/~jkb Set the tone to sync + OS: http://www.FreeBSD.org On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Dusk Auriel Sykotik wrote: >You can't use printf(), you didn't include stdio.h :) > >/* >** Matt Harris Syko >** BPSOFH, BIOFH, C, SQL, PERL http://www.sykotik.org/~syko/ >** FreeBSD SysAdmin sykotik.org >** IRC TechnoNet - dark.technonet.net Cabalnet - dark-temple.cabalnet.org >** "Those who are right in the mind are left in the dust." -- Me. >*/ > > >On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Scott Sewall wrote: > >> Here it is: >> >> main () { >> printf("Hello World!\n"); >> } >> >> -- Scott >> >> >> Daniel wrote: >> > >> > I am looking for the orignal 'C' program... >> > >> > If you can tell me where I can find it to buy it and the price I would be >> > happy. >> > >> > Thanks > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message