From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 01:05:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21665 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:05:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA21549 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:03:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id HAA03339 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:06:07 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810180606.HAA03339@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Who is using the wavelan driver ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:06:07 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, is there anyone using the wavelan driver in FreeBSD ? I was trying to apply bridging patches to it but noticed the driver is a bit weird e.g.: * it loads the ethernet header outside the mbuf, then plays tricks to put it back in for bpf use; * it uses a mbuf cluster to hold the packet, but then allocates more regular mbufs if the packet does not fit into the first one (i suppose you can configure the wl card to use packets larger than 2KB...) i need to straighten this a bit for bridging support but don't have the card to test things, so if someone has the card and time to test the changes please contact me. thanks luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 08:34:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25326 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25311 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:34:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from violet.ezo.net (violet.ezo.net [206.102.130.133]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA12213; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jim Flowers" To: "Luigi Rizzo" Cc: Subject: Re: Who is using the wavelan driver ? Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:26:13 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdfaab$a400a820$858266ce@violet.ezo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have the cards, use them regularly and would be pleased to test your work. Currently, I have two test units running on pci boxes with Cyrix GXi 180 MHz processors and running picobsd 0.4 with wlconfig compiled in against FreeBSD 2.2.7. NIC is 10/100. Cards are WaveLAN ISA, old style (1/2AT). Also have Pentium 200 MHz pci box but had to hack the wl driver to get the modem to initialize and come up running, probably due to a higher speed ISA bus. Currently use for wireless Internet access from an old style WavePOINT and for point-to-point network connections both using tcp/ip routing. There are interesting interactions between WavePOINTs and WaveLANs. Performance seems to be OK. Will probably replace the WavePOINTS with multiple WaveLAN cards at different frequencies and use dummynet to regulate bandwidth to contracted bandwidth for each distant node by IP number as we begin to load the system. Studied the wl code some to figure out the hacks but could never get all the way as I couldn't find the source documents for the modem or the Intel Ethernet driver on the card. There are a couple of patches for wl in the CVS addressing specific problems. I haven't tried them yet as my current setup works OK. The newer (802.11) cards aren't very friendly for 3hd parties as they don't support ad-hoc networking, aren't backwards compatable and have a lousy external antenna connector. They also use a modem adapter rather than an Ethernet interface so not much hope for the wl. I also notice the www.wavelan.com site is no longer responding and Lucent doesn't have anything about WaveLAN on their site. We have cards on backorder for 4 to 6 weeks. Maybe all of WaveLAN is history? -----Original Message----- From: Luigi Rizzo To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 5:15 AM Subject: Who is using the wavelan driver ? >Hi, > >is there anyone using the wavelan driver in FreeBSD ? > >I was trying to apply bridging patches to it but noticed the driver is >a bit weird e.g.: > > * it loads the ethernet header outside the mbuf, then plays tricks to > put it back in for bpf use; > * it uses a mbuf cluster to hold the packet, but then allocates more > regular mbufs if the packet does not fit into the first one > (i suppose you can configure the wl card to use packets larger than > 2KB...) > >i need to straighten this a bit for bridging support but don't have the >card to test things, so if someone has the card and time to test the >changes please contact me. > > thanks > luigi >-----------------------------+-------------------------------------- >Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione >email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa >tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) >fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ >_____________________________|______________________________________ > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 08:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA03040 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:59:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA03027 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:59:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id WAA03829 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:59:15 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05361 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:20:21 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:20:21 +0600 (ESS) From: Eugeny Kuzakov at Khanty-Mansiysk To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi All ! I have troubles with this device. I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ :pc#300000:oc#0:\ :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: But no success. Thanks for any advices. p.s. I uses 2.2-980616-SNAP on this machine. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 11:01:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18917 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:01:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA18909 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zUx8I-0006zQ-00; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:00:46 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA00681 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810181800.MAA00681@harmony.village.org> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:00:38 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I had a couple of nasty crashes on my machine that has soft updates enabled. It would appear that I've also managed to get some interesting corruption on one of my volumes. I've attached a complete listing of ls -laR for lost+found. Notice anything unusual? check out the link count of '.'. Also, none of the # files can be deleted. rm claims the directory isn't empty, but it sure looks that way t me. It is interesting to note that the link count is 3, 4 or 5, but in fact it really isn't. Yes, I've run fsck on this volume. It ran out of room in lost+found so I had to run it again by hand. Seems very odd to me. I'm running the latest kernel that has been delivered to my machine, and double checked to make sure that the soft update files are the same ones that are in contrib/sys/softupdates. The fsck is running now and reconnecting a whole lot of inodes... I'll have to see how many it succeeds in reconnecting. Comments? Ideas? Suggestions? Warner ls -alR lost+found total 104 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 #295989 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 #383151 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 #391128 drwxrwxr-x 4 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 #478458 drwxrwxr-x 4 imp wheel 1536 Oct 16 15:28 #541913 drwxrwxr-x 5 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 #573610 drwxrwxr-x 5 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 #581593 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 2048 Oct 16 15:28 #613441 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 #653005 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 #653006 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 2048 Oct 16 15:28 #668897 drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 . drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 May 14 22:24 .. lost+found/#295989: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#383151: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#391128: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#478458: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 4 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#541913: total 91 drwxrwxr-x 4 imp wheel 1536 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#573610: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 5 imp wheel 1024 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#581593: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 5 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#613441: total 91 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 2048 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#653005: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#653006: total 90 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 512 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. lost+found/#668897: total 91 drwxrwxr-x 3 imp wheel 2048 Oct 16 15:28 . drwxrwxrwt 2562 root wheel 91136 Oct 18 11:43 .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 13:24:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA04121 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:24:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA04113 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA16931; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:23:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd016853; Sun Oct 18 13:23:49 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA09222; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:23:48 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:23:48 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810181800.MAA00681@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Oct 18, 98 12:00:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I had a couple of nasty crashes on my machine that has soft updates > enabled. It would appear that I've also managed to get some > interesting corruption on one of my volumes. > > I've attached a complete listing of ls -laR for lost+found. Notice > anything unusual? check out the link count of '.'. Also, none of the > # files can be deleted. rm claims the directory isn't empty, but it > sure looks that way t me. It is interesting to note that the link > count is 3, 4 or 5, but in fact it really isn't. > > Yes, I've run fsck on this volume. It ran out of room in lost+found > so I had to run it again by hand. Seems very odd to me. I'm running > the latest kernel that has been delivered to my machine, and double > checked to make sure that the soft update files are the same ones that > are in contrib/sys/softupdates. > > The fsck is running now and reconnecting a whole lot of inodes... > I'll have to see how many it succeeds in reconnecting. > > Comments? Ideas? Suggestions? Update your fsck. There was a bug in fsck that had it not counting the link in / and the links in the /lost+found directory. I submitted a patch a while back that fixed this bug. With the soft updates code, another version of the patch (that touched things when it probably should not have) was integrated. Now the links are counted the wrong direction. If you have no lost+found, and one is created, a second fsck will reset the link count (maybe -- like I said, the new patch touches the link count unnecessarily) to the proper value. Alternately, you have commit priviledges, and this was discussed in depth on the -current list a number of weeks ago (and if you are running the most recent -current and are still seeing this, then no one with commit priviledges acted upon the discussion, though I know of at least two people, one of them a core member, who participated in the discussion). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 13:43:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06637 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:43:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06626 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:43:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA14532; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:42:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA26288; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:42:48 -0600 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:42:48 -0600 Message-Id: <199810182042.OAA26288@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Terry Lambert Cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? In-Reply-To: <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> References: <199810181800.MAA00681@harmony.village.org> <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I had a couple of nasty crashes on my machine that has soft updates > > enabled. It would appear that I've also managed to get some > > interesting corruption on one of my volumes. .. > Update your fsck. > > There was a bug in fsck that had it not counting the link in / and > the links in the /lost+found directory. > > I submitted a patch a while back that fixed this bug. This patch was committed by me after Don Lewis reviewed the patch, and I concurred with the analysis made by both of you. > Alternately, you have commit priviledges, and this was discussed in > depth on the -current list a number of weeks ago (and if you are > running the most recent -current and are still seeing this, then > no one with commit priviledges acted upon the discussion, though > I know of at least two people, one of them a core member, who > participated in the discussion). I'm not a core member, but the patch is in the tree: revision 1.12 date: 1998/09/23 05:37:35; author: nate; state: Exp; lines: +1 -3 - Back out softupdate change that already existed in FreeBSD from V1.6, which caused the reference count of a directory to get doubly decremented. PR: bin/8030 Reviewed by: nate Submitted by: Don Lewis Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 14:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09165 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09156 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:05:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40346>; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:04:45 +1000 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:13 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: softupdates and sync To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:56:17 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >I guess I'm not making myself clear. Why doesn't sync(1) flush these >things to disk? sync(8) just calls sync(2). sync(2) just starts the buffer flush - it does not wait for the flush to complete. This has always been true and is the origin of the `type sync 3 times before halting system' mantra. > Flush the dirty buffers to disk? sync(2) requests that all dirty buffers get flushed, it just doesn't wait for the flush to complete. > It shouldn't take an unmount to do that... Unfortunately, the only way you can guarantee that all dirty buffers have been flushed is to unmount the partition. Note that fsync(2) does allow you to synchronously flush all the buffers associated with an open FD. For most purposes, this is adequate. I don't know whether 3.x includes a system call which synchronously flushes the entire buffer cache. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 14:15:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10089 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12192; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07047; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA29673; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810182115.OAA29673@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:07 -0700 In-Reply-To: Nate Williams "Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features?" (Oct 18, 2:42pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 18, 2:42pm, Nate Williams wrote: } Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? } > > I had a couple of nasty crashes on my machine that has soft updates } > > enabled. It would appear that I've also managed to get some } > > interesting corruption on one of my volumes. } .. } > Update your fsck. } > } > There was a bug in fsck that had it not counting the link in / and } > the links in the /lost+found directory. } > } > I submitted a patch a while back that fixed this bug. } } This patch was committed by me after Don Lewis reviewed the patch, and I } concurred with the analysis made by both of you. } } > Alternately, you have commit priviledges, and this was discussed in } > depth on the -current list a number of weeks ago (and if you are } > running the most recent -current and are still seeing this, then } > no one with commit priviledges acted upon the discussion, though } > I know of at least two people, one of them a core member, who } > participated in the discussion). } } I'm not a core member, but the patch is in the tree: } } revision 1.12 } date: 1998/09/23 05:37:35; author: nate; state: Exp; lines: +1 -3 } - Back out softupdate change that already existed in FreeBSD from V1.6, } which caused the reference count of a directory to get doubly } decremented. I don't think this is the bug since the reference counts are too big. Question for Warner, do you see any complaints from fsck about extraneous hard links to directories? After fsck has run, I've seen another fsck run complain that /lost+found/#whatever is an extraneous hard link to a directory. I've found some other bugs in fsck, though I'm not convinced that they were behind similar problems I was seeing. I've attempted to fix them in the patch I included in bin/8055. Kirk McKusick incorporated this patch with some changes into his version of fsck, which he intends to integrate into the FreeBSD version at some point. In the meantime, I'd recommend running fsck until it stops reconnecting stuff under lost+found. Then run it again without the -p option (so that it ignores the clean flag), which will allow it to fix the reference counts. --- Truck To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 15:28:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA15307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:28:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA15302 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:28:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA27075 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:57:09 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA01593; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:35:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199810181735.TAA01593@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: from Eugeny Kuzakov at Khanty-Mansiysk at "Oct 18, 98 09:20:21 pm" To: kev@lab321.ru (Eugeny Kuzakov at Khanty-Mansiysk) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:35:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Eugeny Kuzakov at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > > Hi All ! > > I have troubles with this device. > I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: > > fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ > :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ > :pc#300000:oc#0:\ > :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: > > But no success. What errors does it give? Can't you use 'disklabel sd# auto'? Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 16:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20104 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix.tfs.net (as1-p34.tfs.net [139.146.210.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20090 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbryant@unix.tfs.net) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by unix.tfs.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) id SAA00941 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:37:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Bryant Message-Id: <199810182337.SAA00941@unix.tfs.net> Subject: a legend is dead. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Reply-to: jbryant@unix.tfs.net X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Sat Jun 20 11:57:05 CDT 1998 X-Question: What do you call a Republican on Viagra? X-Answer: A Democrat, of course! X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I know this has nothing to do with the topics on this list, but given the scope of this, it is appropriate.. Last night Jon Postel died. Vint Cerf has a page up with a well said eulogy. http://www.vex.net/postel.html jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Inet: jbryant@tfs.net AX.25: kc5vdj@wv0t.#neks.ks.usa.noam grid: EM28pw voice: KC5VDJ - 6 & 2 Meters AM/FM/SSB, 70cm FM. http://www.tfs.net/~jbryant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HF/6M/2M: IC-706-MkII, 2M: HTX-212, 2M: HTX-202, 70cm: HTX-404, Packet: KPC-3+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 16:52:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20996 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20989 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:52:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA02477 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:51:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id BAA27938; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:51:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <19981019015138.56835@follo.net> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:51:38 +0200 From: Eivind Eklund To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: [ANNOUNCE] freebsd-arch is now open Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Due to the lack of a suitable place for discussing FreeBSD architecture, we've re-cycled the freebsd-arch list. This list is now open (anybody can subscribe), but moderated (anybody can post to the list, but the postings will be reviewed for appropriateness and for not just re-hashing things that others have just said. I'm planning to keep the volume on the list low, so if a large discussion is active, your new topic is likely to be artificially delayed until the other discussion has run its course. I'll of course let topics that are urgent and appropriate through (though I really can't think of anything that would be both urgent and appropriate for freebsd-arch at the moment :-) I'll attempt to clone the moderator style that John Levine run for comp.compilers - that is, a fairly intrusive moderator that fix up spelling etc, and may add small editorial comments to the messages. I do this because this is the style I've seen work best. Comments/complaints about how the moderation works is welcome; unless there seems to be large problems which warrant public discussion (e.g, common calls for a new moderator), I'll handle these in private. This is the charter for the "new" list: --- FREEEBSD-ARCHITECTURE This is a moderated list for discussion of FreeBSD architecture. Messages will mostly be kept technical in nature, with (rare) exceptions for other messages the moderator deems need to reach all the subscribers of the list. Examples of suitable topics: * How to re-vamp the build-system to have several customized builds running at the same time * What needs to be fixed with VFS to make Heidemann layers work * How do we change the device driver interface to be able to use the same drivers cleanly on many buses and architectures? Example of a non-suitable topic: * How do I write a network driver? The moderator reserves the right to do minor editing (spell-checking, grammar correction, trimming) of messages that are posted to the list. The volume of the list will be kept low, which may include having to delay topics until an active discussion has been resolved. --- I will wait a couple of days before approving the first messages, to allow people time to subscribe. Messages will be processed in the order I recieve them, so you can start posting now - it just won't show up before I start approving. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 17:12:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22529 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:12:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pchost.com (pchost.com [203.24.253.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22521 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:12:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kyle@pchost.com) Received: from pchost.com (bob.pchost.com [203.24.253.107]) by pchost.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02257 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:20:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from kyle@pchost.com) Message-ID: <362A83B2.D89D1342@pchost.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:31 +1000 From: kyle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: subscribe kyle@pchost.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 18:28:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA28003 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:28:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27998; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:28:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from feustel@ix.netcom.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA06933; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:27:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hh2142126.direcpc.com(207.168.142.126) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma006917; Sun Oct 18 20:27:40 1998 Message-ID: <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:23:25 +0100 From: David Feustel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FreeBSD for Strongarm? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I got FreeBSD to help me install NetBSD on a Strongarm system. Now I think I'd rather run FreeBSD than NetBSD on that machine. Any chance of a StrongARM port for FreeBSD? How much x86-specific code is in FreeBSD? Thanks. -- David Feustel Fort Wayne, Indiana 219-483-1857 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 19:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA02451 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:08:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA02426; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jabley@buddha.clear.net.nz) Received: from buddha.clear.net.nz (buddha.clear.net.nz [192.168.24.106]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id PAA19949; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:08:11 +1300 (NZDT) Received: (from jabley@localhost) by buddha.clear.net.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA08053; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:08:10 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <19981019150809.A5435@clear.co.nz> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:08:09 +1300 From: Joe Abley To: David Feustel , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Strongarm? References: <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com>; from David Feustel on Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 08:23:25PM +0100 X-Files: the Truth is Out There Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, Oct 18, 1998 at 08:23:25PM +0100, David Feustel wrote: > I got FreeBSD to help me install NetBSD on a Strongarm system. > Now I think I'd rather run FreeBSD than NetBSD on that machine. What do you mean you got FreeBSD to help? > Any chance of a StrongARM port for FreeBSD? > > How much x86-specific code is in FreeBSD? I for one think that a StrongARM port would be Very Cool. If there _are_ people who want to do this, you can count on me to egg you on :) -- Joe Abley Tel +64 9 912-4065, Fax +64 9 912-5008 Network Architect, CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 19:29:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:29:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.15.68.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04177 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:29:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from atrn@godzilla.zeta.org.au) Received: (from atrn@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06568; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:27:05 +1000 From: Andy Newman Message-Id: <199810190227.MAA06568@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Subject: Re: Who is using the wavelan driver ? To: jflowers@ezo.net (Jim Flowers) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:27:04 +1000 (EST) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <01bdfaab$a400a820$858266ce@violet.ezo.net> from "Jim Flowers" at Oct 18, 98 11:26:13 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The newer (802.11) cards aren't very friendly for 3hd parties as they don't > support ad-hoc networking, aren't backwards compatable and have a lousy > external antenna connector. They also use a modem adapter rather than an > Ethernet interface so not much hope for the wl. I was using some recently and there are some new drivers for 95/NT that support the "ad-hoc" networking mode. As for the other complaints I can't say anything as I've never used them before but I'd like to know about the h/w i/f on the 802.11 cards as a Linux/BSD driver would be useful to me (to avoid buying a WavePOINT to get at our Ethernet from the wireless hosts and to avoid NT for obvious reasons). > I also notice the www.wavelan.com site is no longer responding No, it's up and I'm looking at it now. The DNS says its 195.108.47.86 if you suspect stale DNS troubles. -- Andy Newman To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:24:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24601 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:24:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24591 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id AAA18939; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:24:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:23:11 -0600 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm interested in producing some programming tools that will aid in the development of code for FreeBSD. Unfortunately, when I've asked various people about such things as the object and executable formats, they've all told me that there was no documentation of these things, and that the best way to do this was to UTSL ("Use the source, Luke!"). I was pointed, in particular, to the as(1) assembler and ld(1) linker. Unfortunately, when I looked for the source in the 3.0-current tree, I discovered, to my horror, that both programs were in the /src/gnu subdirectory. This creates a problem. Technically, if I use GPLed source, I must GPL the resulting product. And both as(1) and ld(1) are GPLed. Thus, without descriptions of the output formats that do not require me to read the source code, I can't produce tools that I am 100% sure can be licensed under the Berkeley license and/or sold as commercial products. (This is, perhaps, precisely the sort of "trap" Richard Stallman intended to set when he wrote the GPL in the first place: making it difficult to develop alternatives.) If I'm going to start doing language compilers (and an optimizing assembler) for FreeBSD, I need descriptions of the object format, executable format, register usage conventions, parameter passing conventions, and library conventions that are independent of any GPLed code. How can I obtain these? These would also be required by any commercial developer (say, Green Hills, Borland, or Watcom) who wished to develop tools for FreeBSD, so they wouldn't just be for MY benefit; they're necessary to open up the tools market to ANYONE other than the FSF. --Brett Glass To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:26:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA24849 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:26:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA24841 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zV8ld-0007Kt-00; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:26:09 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA19744; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810190626.AAA19744@harmony.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:23:48 -0000." <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> References: <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:26:06 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199810182023.NAA09222@usr07.primenet.com> Terry Lambert writes: : Update your fsck. My fsck is the Oct 14 fsck... : There was a bug in fsck that had it not counting the link in / and : the links in the /lost+found directory. That's not what I'm seeing... As an update, I did a fsck -y a few times, and deleted the "useless" files inbetween runs and was able to get back to a stable disk. It appears that fsck wasn't putting files into a full lost+found, but was instead just letting the references dangle until lost+found was empty enough that an fsck would complete w/o dropping anything on the floor. Now, to rebuild my freebsd cvs tree, where did I put those ctm files... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:30:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25163 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:30:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA25157 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:30:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zV8pW-0007L0-00; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:30:10 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA19799; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810190630.AAA19799@harmony.village.org> To: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: softupdates and sync Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:13 +1000." <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> References: <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:30:07 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> Peter Jeremy writes: : > Flush the dirty buffers to disk? : sync(2) requests that all dirty buffers get flushed, it just doesn't : wait for the flush to complete. No, it doesn't schedule the writes even. I get no disk traffic after the sync happens. The disk just sits there, but when I do an umount, lots and lot of traffic happens. I've waited as long as 5 minutes for the sync to complete, but no disk traffic happens in this time, but when I umount the disk, I get 30+seconds of solid disk activity. Eg: rm -rf /fred/some-big-dir sync umount /fred Shouldn't sync schedule those 30 seconds of write to happen after I hit return, but before I get my prompt back? I don't think that it is... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:32:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25271 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:32:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA25266 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:32:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zV8rC-0007L8-00; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:31:54 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA19911; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810190631.AAA19911@harmony.village.org> To: Don Lewis Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:15:07 PDT." <199810182115.OAA29673@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> References: <199810182115.OAA29673@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:31:52 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199810182115.OAA29673@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Don Lewis writes: : Question for Warner, do you see any complaints from fsck about : extraneous hard links to directories? After fsck has run, I've : seen another fsck run complain that /lost+found/#whatever is an : extraneous hard link to a directory. No. Didn't see those messages. : In the meantime, I'd recommend running fsck until it stops reconnecting : stuff under lost+found. Then run it again without the -p option (so that : it ignores the clean flag), which will allow it to fix the reference : counts. That's what I wound up doing, with some scrubbing of lost+found inbetween runs, to get back to a fsck that was clean. I think what was happening was that the link count was adjusted for files that were dangling because fsck couldn't attach them to lost+found because the directory was full. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:37:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25657 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA25650; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zV8vl-0007LH-00; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:36:37 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id AAA20131; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810190636.AAA20131@harmony.village.org> To: David Feustel Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Strongarm? Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:23:25 BST." <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> References: <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:36:34 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> David Feustel writes: : Any chance of a StrongARM port for FreeBSD? Yes. If someone does it :-) : How much x86-specific code is in FreeBSD? It varies. In places it is completely OS neutral, and even 64 bit clean. In others there are grotty little i386isms that dog your every step. If you were trying to build a userland version of FreeBSD/StrongARM, in a cross compiler environment, I'd guess that it would take about 2-6 weeks of effort, depending on how cross the cross environment is. It would also help if you used a *BSD/StrongARM kernel + FreeBSD userland. This worked well with the Alpha port, plus at least one other port that is still in the development stages. As for the kernel, I don't know much about StrongARM, so I can't say on that. I once estimated the kernel porting time to a MIPS machine to be on the order of 3 man months, give or take, but that was before the alpha stuff went into the kernel. It would likely take less now, assuming that the StrongARM has a decent MMU or MMU-like thing. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 18 23:37:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25792 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles338.castles.com [208.214.167.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25783 for ; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16847; Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810190637.XAA16847@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:23:11 MDT." <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:37:10 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm interested in producing some programming tools that will aid in the > development of code for FreeBSD. Unfortunately, when I've asked various > people about such things as the object and executable formats, they've all > told me that there was no documentation of these things, and that the best > way to do this was to UTSL ("Use the source, Luke!"). I was pointed, in > particular, to the as(1) assembler and ld(1) linker. As has been mentioned previously, the ELF object format is copiously described by the ELF documentation, sources for which have been posted here several times. > Unfortunately, when I looked for the source in the 3.0-current tree, I > discovered, to my horror, that both programs were in the /src/gnu > subdirectory. This creates a problem. Technically, if I use GPLed source, I > must GPL the resulting product. And both as(1) and ld(1) are GPLed. Binutils uses libbfd, which unfortunately is licensed under the GPL, not the LGPL. > Thus, without descriptions of the output formats that do not require me to > read the source code, I can't produce tools that I am 100% sure can be > licensed under the Berkeley license and/or sold as commercial products. Since such documentation exists, you're safe here. You can also consult with the relevant experts, who can give you uninfected advice. > (This is, perhaps, precisely the sort of "trap" Richard Stallman intended > to set when he wrote the GPL in the first place: making it difficult to > develop alternatives.) Correct. > If I'm going to start doing language compilers (and an optimizing > assembler) for FreeBSD, I need descriptions of the object format, > executable format, register usage conventions, parameter passing > conventions, and library conventions that are independent of any GPLed > code. How can I obtain these? These would also be required by any > commercial developer (say, Green Hills, Borland, or Watcom) who wished to > develop tools for FreeBSD, so they wouldn't just be for MY benefit; they're > necessary to open up the tools market to ANYONE other than the FSF. To be quite honest, if all you're doing when you look at the code is reverse-engineering the interface(s), it's unlikely that your derived specification will be subject to the GPL. If you obtain this specification without looking at the code (eg. by conversing with someone else who has done the work) then you're almost certainly clean (this is the standrd 'clean room' methodology). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 01:18:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA04185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:18:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rip.psg.com (rip.psg.com [147.28.0.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA04130 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from localhost (796 bytes) by rip.psg.com via sendmail with P:stdio/R:inet_resolve/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #1 built 1998-Oct-13) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 01:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who is using the wavelan driver ? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > is there anyone using the wavelan driver in FreeBSD ? yes, please. been using the pcmcia cards with bsdi for a few years and now just starting to use the isa card with freebsd 3.0 beta. > i need to straighten this a bit for bridging support but don't have the > card to test things, so if someone has the card and time to test the > changes please contact me. i may not be your best tester. i have the spare hardware, but spend half my life on ing airplanes. randy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 03:00:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA15059 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:00:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lily.ezo.net (lily.ezo.net [206.102.130.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA15054 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jflowers@ezo.net) Received: from lily.ezo.net (jflowers@localhost.ezo.net [127.0.0.1]) by lily.ezo.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA27706; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Flowers To: Andy Newman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who is using the wavelan driver ? In-Reply-To: <199810190227.MAA06568@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jim Flowers #4 ISP on C|NET, #1 in Ohio On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Andy Newman wrote: > > I was using some recently and there are some new drivers for 95/NT that > support the "ad-hoc" networking mode. As for the other complaints I can't I saw that they have a firmware upgrade that allows what they called "demo" adhoc networking but couldn't fathom what that was. One thing the 802.11 does is to look around for a wireless network to join so I thought "demo" mode might bypass that. > say anything as I've never used them before but I'd like to know about the > h/w i/f on the 802.11 cards as a Linux/BSD driver would be useful to me > (to avoid buying a WavePOINT to get at our Ethernet from the wireless hosts > and to avoid NT for obvious reasons). If they do ad-hoc, I think they should be able to do point-to-multipoint with a Linux/BSD driver. The older style used a PC Card modem in an ISA carrier that hand an Intel Ethernet chip on it that was documented. If you look at the 802.11 ISA there is an IC that is a PC Card adapter. I think I found a web site for it but I don't remember if it had documentation. > > > I also notice the www.wavelan.com site is no longer responding > > No, it's up and I'm looking at it now. The DNS says its 195.108.47.86 if > you suspect stale DNS troubles. Thanks, I see it's back up. It was gone Friday when I really needed it (troubleshooting a WavePOINT in a remote area) and most of the weekend. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 05:40:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA00581 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dragon.ham.muohio.edu (dragon.ham.muohio.edu [134.53.147.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA00576 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@dragon.ham.muohio.edu) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by dragon.ham.muohio.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA21757 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:40:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:40:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Howard To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Best upgrade path to 3.0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is probably a newbie question, but I have never faced this: I have a 2.2.7-STABLE system and just CVSupped to 3.0. Now, what would be the proper upgrade procedure? The few docs lying around suggest that this will be very painful because of the ELF conversion. Is this so? What do I do to get around it? Thanks, Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 06:26:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA04570 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 06:26:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA04565 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 06:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id JAA08764; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:25:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Bowden To: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-Reply-To: <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:56:17 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > >I guess I'm not making myself clear. Why doesn't sync(1) flush these > >things to disk? > sync(8) just calls sync(2). sync(2) just starts the buffer flush - it > does not wait for the flush to complete. This has always been true > and is the origin of the `type sync 3 times before halting system' > mantra. This mantra has never made any sense to me. The process of halting the system is unmounting filesystems, which will force syncing before umount happens. I have never bothered to manually sync a filesystem prior to a shutdown, reboot, or halt command. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 07:17:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA09231 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:17:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA09212 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:17:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zVG7S-0007Wd-00; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:17:10 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA24909; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810191417.IAA24909@harmony.village.org> To: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:23:11 MDT." <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> References: <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:17:12 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Brett Glass writes: : code. How can I obtain these? These would also be required by any : commercial developer (say, Green Hills, Borland, or Watcom) who wished to : develop tools for FreeBSD, so they wouldn't just be for MY benefit; they're : necessary to open up the tools market to ANYONE other than the FSF. Search the mail archives for elf.tar.gz or ELF.tar.gz or maybe even elf.tgz somewhere on sunsite. It has the elf spec in it. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 08:56:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA18068 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:56:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17999 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:56:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id WAA14148; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:53:41 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00417; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:45:51 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:45:51 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: Wilko Bulte cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: <199810181735.TAA01593@yedi.iaf.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > I have troubles with this device. > > I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: > > fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ > > :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ > > :pc#300000:oc#0:\ > > :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: > What errors does it give? Can't you use 'disklabel sd# auto'? no reason to try disklabel w/o creation partition. When I tryed "fdisk sd1", kernel says: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: sd1: Can't deal with 2048 bytes logical blocks Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: Debugger("sd") called. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am no especialist in scsi details. Now trying experiences.... Now compiling kernel with this my patch: --- sd.c.orig Mon Oct 19 21:31:37 1998 +++ sd.c Mon Oct 19 21:34:53 1998 @@ -318,6 +318,11 @@ printf("sd%ld: Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; } + /* Hack for Fujitsu MO640 */ + if ( sd->params.secsiz == 2048 ){ + printf("sd%ld: Fujitsu MO640 with his fucking 2048 sectors ?Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); + sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; + } if (sd->params.secsiz != SECSIZE) { /* XXX One day... */ printf("sd%ld: Can't deal with %d bytes logical blocks\n", Coments ? :) I really need to work with MO640. I don't want install NT only because this reason. :( Any help appropriated. 10tx. -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 p.s. Sorry for my russian english. :) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 09:08:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19148 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19025 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:07:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id XAA16153; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:06:20 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA00471; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:51:47 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:51:46 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: Wilko Bulte cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote: Also I looked at /usr/src/sbin/i386/fdisk/fdisk.c. fdisk support up to 2048 sector size (MAX_SEC_SIZE). Why not try this patch... Not so good, that it production server. I want to be sure, that it will be work. > On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > I have troubles with this device. > > > I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: > > > fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ > > > :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ > > > :pc#300000:oc#0:\ > > > :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: > > What errors does it give? Can't you use 'disklabel sd# auto'? > no reason to try disklabel w/o creation partition. > When I tryed "fdisk sd1", kernel says: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: sd1: Can't deal with 2048 bytes logical blocks > Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: Debugger("sd") called. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > I am no especialist in scsi details. > Now trying experiences.... > Now compiling kernel with this my patch: > > --- sd.c.orig Mon Oct 19 21:31:37 1998 > +++ sd.c Mon Oct 19 21:34:53 1998 > @@ -318,6 +318,11 @@ > printf("sd%ld: Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); > sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; > } > + /* Hack for Fujitsu MO640 */ > + if ( sd->params.secsiz == 2048 ){ > + printf("sd%ld: Fujitsu MO640 with his fucking 2048 sectors ?Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); > + sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; > + } > > if (sd->params.secsiz != SECSIZE) { /* XXX One day... */ > printf("sd%ld: Can't deal with %d bytes logical blocks\n", > > > Coments ? :) > I really need to work with MO640. I don't want install NT only because > this reason. > :( > > Any help appropriated. > 10tx. > > -- > Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov > Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) > kev@lab321.ru > ICQ#: 5885106 > > p.s. Sorry for my russian english. :) > > -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 09:15:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19837 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:15:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19831 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA22531; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019100241.0677ace0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:23 -0600 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810190637.XAA16847@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 11:37 PM 10/18/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >As has been mentioned previously, the ELF object format is copiously >described by the ELF documentation, sources for which have been posted >here several times. Unfortunately, I'm not a full-time subscriber to "hackers," so I haven't seen them. Could you send a pointer or two off-list? >> Unfortunately, when I looked for the source in the 3.0-current tree, I >> discovered, to my horror, that both programs were in the /src/gnu >> subdirectory. This creates a problem. Technically, if I use GPLed source, I >> must GPL the resulting product. And both as(1) and ld(1) are GPLed. > >Binutils uses libbfd, which unfortunately is licensed under the GPL, >not the LGPL. What sorts of routines does libbfd contain? (I'm intentionally not looking at stuff until I can determine that I won't be "contaminated" by doing so.) >> Thus, without descriptions of the output formats that do not require me to >> read the source code, I can't produce tools that I am 100% sure can be >> licensed under the Berkeley license and/or sold as commercial products. > >Since such documentation exists, you're safe here. You can also >consult with the relevant experts, who can give you uninfected advice. That would be useful. What about the intermediate formats, though? In order to link statically with library files or third party code, I'll need to be able to deal with the object format. >To be quite honest, if all you're doing when you look at the code is >reverse-engineering the interface(s), it's unlikely that your >derived specification will be subject to the GPL. Specification, no. But more code...? Hard to tell. I'd rather make sure I'm "clean." >If you obtain this >specification without looking at the code (eg. by conversing with >someone else who has done the work) then you're almost certainly clean >(this is the standrd 'clean room' methodology). That's what I'd like to do. Better still, it'd be nice if there were some docs.... Even Microsoft documents things like its object format and register models! That's why I was so startled to find out that there was no way to get this information for FreeBSD without reading GPLed code. It sounds as if a non-GPLed linker (without debugging support in the earliest version) would be the first step. If I can do a statically linked "hello world" and then a dynamically linked one (I don't want to use numbered syscalls, since this mechanism is deprecated), I can then make an assembler. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 09:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20397 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:20:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.king.ac.uk (mercury.king.ac.uk [141.241.4.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA20388 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:20:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from K980705@atlas.king.ac.uk) Received: from gnasher.king.ac.uk by mercury.king.ac.uk with SMTP (MMTA 2) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:50:17 +0100 Received: from temail.king.ac.uk (temail [141.241.129.2]) by gnasher.king.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA14645 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:47:29 +0100 Received: from TE0/SpoolDir by temail.king.ac.uk (Mercury 1.40); 19 Oct 98 15:47:33 GMT Received: from SpoolDir by TE0 (Mercury 1.40); 19 Oct 98 15:47:27 GMT From: James ANNESLEY Organization: Kingston University To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:47:21 GMT0BST Subject: (Fwd) Volunteer help here! X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.40) Message-ID: <2DC7A3ECF@temail.king.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Self To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Volunteer help here! Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:00:26 GMT0BST Hi Hackers, My name is James and I am a Computer Science student. I would like to help you if I may. I can program a bit but I would be content to do the occassional chore. I have used FreeBSD 2.2.6 for some months now and I am impressed. I am excited about the 3.0 release but I do not think I will upgrade. In particular the new SCSI features may enable me to use my scanner and the ELF compiler will help with my c++ programs. I have a Blackwidow scanner with a cut-down SCSI card as its interface. Do you know of a driver for this device? I prefer FreeBSD to Microsoft because I have more control how the system works. The applications available are of high quality and sometimes superior to Windows applications. It is a trial to set up and suitable only for the committed. I hope I hear from you soon, Well done you nutters ! James Annesley James To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 09:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA20983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:30:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA20978 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA13755; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:28:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810191628.JAA13755@austin.polstra.com> To: jamie@itribe.net Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:28:02 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Jamie Bowden wrote: > > sync(8) just calls sync(2). sync(2) just starts the buffer flush - it > > does not wait for the flush to complete. This has always been true > > and is the origin of the `type sync 3 times before halting system' > > mantra. > > This mantra has never made any sense to me. The process of halting the > system is unmounting filesystems, which will force syncing before umount > happens. I have never bothered to manually sync a filesystem prior to a > shutdown, reboot, or halt command. Right -- it's just a ritual and it isn't necessary. I do it anyway, because it makes me feel like I'm living right. I guess it's the Unix heathen's substitute for prayer. :-) -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 09:51:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA23078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22988 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:50:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id XAA22652; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:47:12 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00382; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:38:28 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:38:28 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: Wilko Bulte cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote: > > I am no especialist in scsi details. > > Now trying experiences.... Previous experiences failed. Tryed this patch: --- sd.c.orig Mon Oct 19 21:31:37 1998 +++ sd.c Mon Oct 19 22:22:50 1998 @@ -318,13 +318,19 @@ printf("sd%ld: Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; } + /* Hack for Fujitsu MO640 */ + if ( sd->params.secsiz == 2048 ){ + printf("sd%ld: Fucking Fujitsu MO640 with its fucking 2048 sectors ?\n", unit ); + } if (sd->params.secsiz != SECSIZE) { /* XXX One day... */ + if ( sd->params.secsiz != 2048 ) { printf("sd%ld: Can't deal with %d bytes logical blocks\n", unit, sd->params.secsiz); Debugger("sd"); errcode = ENXIO; goto bad; + } } SC_DEBUG(sc_link, SDEV_DB3, ("Params loaded ")); This patch failed too...when I tryed to run "fdisk sd1" Oct 19 22:27:19 hmansy /fuj: sd1: Fucking Fujitsu MO640 with its fucking 2048 sectors ? Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @f448f000. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @f448f000. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @f448f000. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @f448f000. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1(ncr0:5:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @f448f000. Oct 19 22:27:20 hmansy /fuj: sd1: error reading primary partition table reading fsbn 0 of 0-3 (sd1 bn 0; cn 0 tn 0 sn 0) -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 10:17:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25545 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25540 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id LAA23656; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:14:08 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810191714.LAA23656@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: from Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk at "Oct 19, 98 09:45:51 pm" To: kev@lab321.ru (Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > I have troubles with this device. > > > I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: > > > fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ > > > :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ > > > :pc#300000:oc#0:\ > > > :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: > > What errors does it give? Can't you use 'disklabel sd# auto'? > no reason to try disklabel w/o creation partition. > When I tryed "fdisk sd1", kernel says: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: sd1: Can't deal with 2048 bytes logical blocks > Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: Debugger("sd") called. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > I am no especialist in scsi details. > Now trying experiences.... > Now compiling kernel with this my patch: > [ ... ] > + /* Hack for Fujitsu MO640 */ > + if ( sd->params.secsiz == 2048 ){ > + printf("sd%ld: Fujitsu MO640 with his fucking 2048 sectors ?Forcing sector size to %d\n", unit, SECSIZE); > + sd->params.secsiz = SECSIZE; > + } > > if (sd->params.secsiz != SECSIZE) { /* XXX One day... */ > printf("sd%ld: Can't deal with %d bytes logical blocks\n", [ ... ] > Coments ? :) > I really need to work with MO640. I don't want install NT only because > this reason. > :( > > Any help appropriated. You may want to try installing 3.0-release. The 3.0 tree has better support for devices with sector sizes other than 512 bytes. At the very least, we'll be better able to help you get your drive working under 3.0 than under the 2.x branch. (I think, though, that 3.0 should work for you without modification.) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 10:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29144 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from main.piter.net (main.piter.net [195.201.22.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29129 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:52:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cyril@main.piter.net) Received: (from cyril@localhost) by main.piter.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23714; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:52 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from cyril) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:52 +0400 (MSD) From: "Cyril A. Vechera" Message-Id: <199810191749.VAA23714@main.piter.net> To: ken@plutotech.com, kev@lab321.ru Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, wilko@yedi.iaf.nl Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From majordom@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 19 21:19:40 1998 > From: "Kenneth D. Merry" > Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) > To: kev@lab321.ru (Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk) > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:14:08 -0600 (MDT) > Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG > heh, i've setted up Fujitsu MO640 on 2.2.5 - with od-device. It works. But I couldn't disklabel it on 2.2.5 - with many miscelanous errors. But on my other partiotion there was some 3.0 SNAP and under its magic power i'd successfull disklabeled my MO-disk. And now this disks are readable and writable in 2.2.5 :) Sorry, not disklabeled, it allowed just (and only) newfs on od-device :) Now i can't remember all sequence of my actions, but i think that it was like this: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/od0 count=1 newfs -T mo640 /dev/od0 or /dev/od0a ?? I realy understand that it's dump and *&^% but it works, and it was only way i could set ip up :( Sincerely your, Cyril A. Vechera email:cyril@piter.net --------- http://sply.piter.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 11:11:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA01904 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:11:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA01899 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:11:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14424; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810191810.LAA14424@austin.polstra.com> To: obrien@NUXI.com cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:00:57 PDT." <19981019110057.A28374@nuxi.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:10:55 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Correctly me if I'm wrong: if you want to know the point at which > the disks are synced, you need to run it twice, right? > > Reason being the 1st ``sync'' simply kicks off the syncing procedure > and then returns. The 2nd ``sync'' will not return until the > syncing procedure from the 1st ``sync'' has completed. Thus once > the 2nd ``sync'' returns, you know your disk buffers are completely > flushed to disk. I haven't studied the code, but I know what the documentation says. It says, "sync() may return before the buffers are completely flushed." It doesn't say that if you run it a second time, it will make sure that the first sync() has completed. There's no stated guarantee of that kind. I think that whatever historical benefit came from running it three times was strictly derived from the fact that it takes a few seconds to type "sync" three times. It would work just as well to type: sync echo hi echo hi :-) When unmounting a filesystem, you don't have to run sync at all. Unmounting will automatically write out all the dirty buffers. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 11:57:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA06533 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:57:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA06527 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:57:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00611; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810191900.MAA00611@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Brett Glass cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:23 MDT." <4.1.19981019100241.0677ace0@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:00:45 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > At 11:37 PM 10/18/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > >As has been mentioned previously, the ELF object format is copiously > >described by the ELF documentation, sources for which have been posted > >here several times. > > Unfortunately, I'm not a full-time subscriber to "hackers," so I > haven't seen them. Could you send a pointer or two off-list? As Warner suggested, check on Sunsite. I'm pretty sure that's where it was claimed to be. > >> Unfortunately, when I looked for the source in the 3.0-current tree, I > >> discovered, to my horror, that both programs were in the /src/gnu > >> subdirectory. This creates a problem. Technically, if I use GPLed source, I > >> must GPL the resulting product. And both as(1) and ld(1) are GPLed. > > > >Binutils uses libbfd, which unfortunately is licensed under the GPL, > >not the LGPL. > > What sorts of routines does libbfd contain? (I'm intentionally not > looking at stuff until I can determine that I won't be "contaminated" > by doing so.) libbfd is the binary file descriptor library; it contains primitives for reading and writing the various file formats that binutils supports. as, ld and ar all use it for manipulating their files. > >> Thus, without descriptions of the output formats that do not require me to > >> read the source code, I can't produce tools that I am 100% sure can be > >> licensed under the Berkeley license and/or sold as commercial products. > > > >Since such documentation exists, you're safe here. You can also > >consult with the relevant experts, who can give you uninfected advice. > > That would be useful. What about the intermediate formats, though? In > order to link statically with library files or third party code, I'll > need to be able to deal with the object format. ELF objects are documented int the ELF documentation. > >If you obtain this > >specification without looking at the code (eg. by conversing with > >someone else who has done the work) then you're almost certainly clean > >(this is the standrd 'clean room' methodology). > > That's what I'd like to do. Better still, it'd be nice if there were > some docs.... Even Microsoft documents things like its object format > and register models! That's why I was so startled to find out that there > was no way to get this information for FreeBSD without reading GPLed code. I suspect that Cygnus may have some documentation on the behaviour of GCC on the i386. You would have to talk to them about that. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:03:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07132 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07069 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:02:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id BAA14433; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:54:53 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA00886; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:56:40 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:56:40 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: "Kenneth D. Merry" cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: <199810191714.LAA23656@panzer.plutotech.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > You may want to try installing 3.0-release. The 3.0 tree has better :( Not now. > support for devices with sector sizes other than 512 bytes. > At the very least, we'll be better able to help you get your drive working > under 3.0 than under the 2.x branch. (I think, though, that 3.0 should I think so. :) > work for you without modification.) This device has jumper: Magneto Optical mode/hard disk mode. I will try to turn off MO mode. People on irc says( one has MO230), that linux has no problem with this device. SCO OSE works too. Thanks for all ! -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:05:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07339 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:05:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07334 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id NAA24436; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:02:10 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810191902.NAA24436@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: from Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk at "Oct 19, 98 11:56:40 pm" To: kev@lab321.ru (Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > > Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > > You may want to try installing 3.0-release. The 3.0 tree has better > :( Not now. > > > support for devices with sector sizes other than 512 bytes. > > At the very least, we'll be better able to help you get your drive working > > under 3.0 than under the 2.x branch. (I think, though, that 3.0 should > I think so. :) > > work for you without modification.) > This device has jumper: Magneto Optical mode/hard disk mode. > I will try to turn off MO mode. Actually, I think you might have better luck running in MO mode and trying the od driver. The od driver is designed to work with MO type drives. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:05:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA07377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:05:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07317 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id CAA16744 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:03:56 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA01537 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:21:51 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:21:51 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.0-RELEASE & ipfilter Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, All ! Are there anyone tryed ipnat in -RELEASE ? -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA08560 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08548 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:14:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA24178; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:09:54 -0600 To: Mike Smith From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810191900.MAA00611@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:00 PM 10/19/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >libbfd is the binary file descriptor library; it contains primitives >for reading and writing the various file formats that binutils >supports. as, ld and ar all use it for manipulating their files. Hmm. I could write some code that used it to generate samples, then emulate what it did. Awkward, though. And a shame that I'd have to reinvent the wheel. That's what open source software is supposed to avoid! >ELF objects are documented int the ELF documentation. Will have to look at these docs.... >I suspect that Cygnus may have some documentation on the behaviour of >GCC on the i386. You would have to talk to them about that. Well, John Gilmore, founder of Cygnus, once refused to give me ANY help or information if the product of my work was not to be GPLed, so I'm not optimistic. But I suppose I could try. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:18:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09096 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA09091 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:18:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA00401 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:05:10 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id UAA13293; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:01:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199810191801.UAA13293@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: from Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk at "Oct 19, 98 09:45:51 pm" To: kev@lab321.ru (Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:01:16 +0200 (CEST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > I have troubles with this device. > > > I tryed to add the following lines to disktab: > > > fujitsumo640|FUJITSU M2513A 1500|\ > > > :ty=removable:dt=SCSI:se#2048:nc#310352:nt#1:ns#64:nc#606:\ > > > :pc#300000:oc#0:\ > > > :ta=4.2BSD:ba#8192:fa#1024: > > What errors does it give? Can't you use 'disklabel sd# auto'? > no reason to try disklabel w/o creation partition. > When I tryed "fdisk sd1", kernel says: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Oct 19 21:28:24 hmansy /kernel: sd1: Can't deal with 2048 bytes logical blocks Aha! fdisk and friends assume a disk has 512 bytes/block. That is why it complains. > p.s. Sorry for my russian english. :) Well, here is a bit of Dutch english ;-) Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:29:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10218 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:29:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from trinity.radio-do.de (trinity.Radio-do.de [193.101.164.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10212 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:29:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fn@trinity.radio-do.de) Received: (from fn@localhost) by trinity.radio-do.de (8.9.1/8.8.5/RADIO-1.1) id VAA21863; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:26:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <19981019212629.A21841@radio-do.de> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:26:29 +0200 From: Frank Nobis To: "Kenneth D. Merry" , Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) References: <199810191714.LAA23656@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810191714.LAA23656@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 11:14:08AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 11:14:08AM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk wrote... > [ ... ] > > > Coments ? :) > > I really need to work with MO640. I don't want install NT only because > > this reason. > > :( > > > > Any help appropriated. > > You may want to try installing 3.0-release. The 3.0 tree has better > support for devices with sector sizes other than 512 bytes. > > At the very least, we'll be better able to help you get your drive working > under 3.0 than under the 2.x branch. (I think, though, that 3.0 should > work for you without modification.) >From my point of view the M2513A is working since half a year ago when I bought mine. I created a disklabel for it and created one dedicated filesystem on it. Here is what my actual kernel has to say about my MO640 su-2.01# dmesg |grep da4 da4 at ahc1 bus 0 target 5 lun 0 da4: Removable Optical SCSI2 device da4: 10.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 10) da4: 606MB (310352 2048 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 151C) su-2.01# camcontrol devlist -v scbus-1 on xpt0 bus 0: scbus0 on ahc0 bus 0: at scbus0 target 3 lun 0 (pass0,cd0) scbus1 on ahc1 bus 0: at scbus1 target 0 lun 0 (pass1,da0) at scbus1 target 1 lun 0 (pass2,da1) at scbus1 target 2 lun 0 (pass3,da2) < DFRSS4F 4B4B> at scbus1 target 4 lun 0 (pass4,da3) at scbus1 target 5 lun 0 (pass5,da4) su-2.01# uname -a FreeBSD trinity.radio-do.de 3.0-BETA FreeBSD 3.0-BETA #2: Fri Oct 16 20:36:30 CEST 1998 root@trinity.radio-do.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/TRINITY+cam+smp i386 su-2.01# disklabel da4 # /dev/rda4c: type: SCSI disk: fuji640 label: mo1 flags: removeable bytes/sector: 2048 sectors/track: 32 tracks/cylinder: 64 sectors/cylinder: 2048 cylinders: 151 sectors/unit: 310352 rpm: 3600 interleave: 1 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 3 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 310352 0 4.2BSD 2048 4096 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 151*) c: 310352 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 151*) Regards Frank -- Frank Nobis Email: PGP AVAILABLE Landgrafenstr. 130 dg3dcn http://www.radio-do.de/~fn/ 44139 Dortmund Powered by SMP FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10817 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cam.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10776 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cam.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11679; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:32:42 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <362B93D5.D026E1B9@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:32:37 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass CC: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG description of ELF, which can be usefull: http://www.sco.com/developer/gabi/contents.html -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:42:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA11606 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:42:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11552 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from danderse@cs.utah.edu) Received: from lal.cs.utah.edu (lal.cs.utah.edu [155.99.192.110]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16122; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:41:42 -0600 (MDT) From: David G Andersen Received: (from danderse@localhost) by lal.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05584; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810191941.NAA05584@lal.cs.utah.edu> Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810191417.IAA24909@harmony.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Oct 19, 98 08:17:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Or, to make it easy, fetch it from: http://www.cs.utah.edu/~danderse/flux/elf-spec-1.1.ps.gz I'll leave it sitting around there for a while in case anybody else needs a copy. -Dave Lo and behold, Warner Losh once said: > > In message <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Brett Glass writes: > : code. How can I obtain these? These would also be required by any > : commercial developer (say, Green Hills, Borland, or Watcom) who wished to > : develop tools for FreeBSD, so they wouldn't just be for MY benefit; they're > : necessary to open up the tools market to ANYONE other than the FSF. > > Search the mail archives for elf.tar.gz or ELF.tar.gz or maybe even > elf.tgz somewhere on sunsite. It has the elf spec in it. > > Warner > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- work: danderse@cs.utah.edu me: angio@pobox.com University of Utah http://www.angio.net/ Department of Computer Science To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 12:47:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA12103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA12098 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:47:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id NAA24472; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019134220.065a3be0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:43:13 -0600 To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <362B93D5.D026E1B9@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> References: <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Interesting. That page says "System V ABI." I understand that the ABI for FreeBSD differs from that of System V in terms of parameter passing and register usage.... --Brett At 10:32 PM 10/19/98 +0300, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: >description of ELF, which can be usefull: > >http://www.sco.com/developer/gabi/contents.html > > >-- > @= > //RSSH >mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > >CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 13:13:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA14371 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:13:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14359 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:13:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id QAA28125 Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:13:01 -0400 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org> <4.1.19981019134220.065a3be0@mail.lariat.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Brett Glass wrote: > > Interesting. That page says "System V ABI." Yup. The System V ABI (Unix Press, ISBN 0-13-100439-5) says that means SVR4 and SVR4.2. Or perhaps you're objecting to the fact that it's not the FreeBSD ELF spec. Either way, in the general sense, ELF is ELF, whether it's SVR4 or Linux or FreeBSD. > I understand that > the ABI for FreeBSD differs from that of System V in terms > of parameter passing and register usage.... Where is the FreeBSD ABI documented? :-) Given that e.g. gcc generates code on SVR4 that works on SVR4 -- are you saying that you think that gcc is, or should be generating different code on FreeBSD because of ABI issues? It's not exactly convenient for me to try it and see, but I'd be surprised if it is. I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, but I don't recall that it specified parameter passing and register usage, and the generic ABI doesn't speak to it (or if it does, it's not in the index.) > > --Brett > > At 10:32 PM 10/19/98 +0300, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > > >description of ELF, which can be usefull: > > > >http://www.sco.com/developer/gabi/contents.html > > > > > >-- > > @= > > //RSSH > >mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA > > > >CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 13:22:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA15185 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from att.com (cagw1.att.com [192.128.52.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15179 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:22:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sbabkin@dcn.att.com) From: sbabkin@dcn.att.com Received: from caig1.fw.att.com by cagw1.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/UPAS-1.0) for freebsd.org!hackers sender dcn.att.com!sbabkin (dcn.att.com!sbabkin); Mon Oct 19 15:09 EDT 1998 Received: from dcn71.dcn.att.com ([135.44.192.112]) by caig1.fw.att.com (AT&T/IPNS/GW-1.0) with ESMTP id PAA13370 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by dcn71.dcn.att.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:18:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: ken@plutotech.com, kev@lab321.ru Cc: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:18:21 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > From: Kenneth D. Merry [SMTP:ken@plutotech.com] > > > > support for devices with sector sizes other than 512 bytes. > > > > This device has jumper: Magneto Optical mode/hard disk mode. > > I will try to turn off MO mode. > > Actually, I think you might have better luck running in MO mode and > trying > the od driver. The od driver is designed to work with MO type drives. > A yet simpler method may be to get disks with 512-byte sectors :-) They are available, for example, from Maxoptix. The MO drives themselves can commonly work with either type of disks, so all that is needed are proper disks. -Sergey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 13:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17005 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:43:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net (porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net [206.64.4.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16981 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:43:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA17966; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:44:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > the ABI for FreeBSD differs from that of System V in terms > > of parameter passing and register usage.... > > Where is the FreeBSD ABI documented? :-) > > Given that e.g. gcc generates code on SVR4 that works on SVR4 -- are you > saying that you think that gcc is, or should be generating different > code on FreeBSD because of ABI issues? It's not exactly convenient for > me to try it and see, but I'd be surprised if it is. > > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > but I don't recall that it specified parameter passing and register > usage, and the generic ABI doesn't speak to it (or if it does, it's not > in the index.) > if you go to the pgcc homepage (pentium optimized gcc) they have a lot of pointers to docs for this as i recall. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 13:50:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17963 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:50:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from yonge.cs.toronto.edu (yonge.cs.toronto.edu [128.100.1.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA17953 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:50:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dholland@cs.toronto.edu) Received: from qew.cs.toronto.edu ([128.100.1.13]) by yonge.cs.toronto.edu with SMTP id <86534-3183>; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:50:14 -0400 Received: by qew.cs.toronto.edu id <37814-9002>; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:44:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD From: David Holland To: brett@lariat.org (Brett Glass) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:44:33 -0400 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> from "Brett Glass" at Oct 19, 98 02:23:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [gpl toolchain] There are a lot of people in various places interested in building a replacement toolchain. At least some of the ones I know of would be amenable to a non-GPL effort. How serious are you about this? BTW, the gnu binutils source is horribly disgusting and you couldn't possibly learn anything by looking at it. :-/ -- - David A. Holland | (please continue to send non-list mail to dholland@cs.utoronto.ca | dholland@hcs.harvard.edu. yes, I moved.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 13:51:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA18012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:51:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18006 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:51:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id QAA04661 Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <362BA636.7E22FCAA@ics.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:51:02 -0400 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > > the ABI for FreeBSD differs from that of System V in terms > > > of parameter passing and register usage.... > > > > Where is the FreeBSD ABI documented? :-) > > > > Given that e.g. gcc generates code on SVR4 that works on SVR4 -- are you > > saying that you think that gcc is, or should be generating different > > code on FreeBSD because of ABI issues? It's not exactly convenient for > > me to try it and see, but I'd be surprised if it is. > > > > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > > but I don't recall that it specified parameter passing and register > > usage, and the generic ABI doesn't speak to it (or if it does, it's not > > in the index.) > > > > if you go to the pgcc homepage (pentium optimized gcc) they have a lot of > pointers to docs for this as i recall. The URL would be helpful. And I'm still not sure why the register usage and parameter passing would (need to) be different on SVR4 than on FreeBSD. (Otherwise either you or I are missing the point of the discussion -- is it me?) -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 14:07:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19574 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:07:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA19568 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:07:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id PAA25110; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019150118.06775920@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:05:09 -0600 To: David Holland From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> References: <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:44 PM 10/19/98 -0400, David Holland wrote: >There are a lot of people in various places interested in building a >replacement toolchain. At least some of the ones I know of would be >amenable to a non-GPL effort. > >How serious are you about this? I've already written several assemblers. Wouldn't be hard to do it again. (I'm an assembly language fiend, and so have come up with some pretty sophisticated tools for it -- including some fancy analysis tools that use Prolog and extensive backward chaining.) I've also written my own HLLs, with really fast recursive descent (not shift/reduce, as they teach in school) compilers. Most, alas, were for PC-DOS, but the experience would be useful. I'd need to learn the curses library to bring over the screen-oriented tools. >BTW, the gnu binutils source is horribly disgusting and you couldn't >possibly learn anything by looking at it. :-/ So I've heard. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 14:21:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21031 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:21:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lab321.ru (anonymous1.omsk.net.ru [62.76.128.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20887 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:20:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kev@lab321.ru) Received: from lab321.ru (uucp@localhost) by lab321.ru (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with UUCP id EAA07893; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:09:29 +0700 (OSS) Received: from localhost (kev@localhost) by hmansy.lab321.ru (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA01707; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:06:56 +0600 (ESS) X-Authentication-Warning: hmansy.lab321.ru: kev owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:06:55 +0600 (ESS) From: Core Dumped at Khanty-Mansiysk To: Frank Nobis cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , wilko@yedi.iaf.nl, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fujitsu MO 640 (M2513A) In-Reply-To: <19981019212629.A21841@radio-do.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Frank Nobis wrote: > su-2.01# uname -a > FreeBSD trinity.radio-do.de 3.0-BETA FreeBSD 3.0-BETA #2: Fri Oct 16 20:36:30 CEST 1998 root@trinity.radio-do.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/TRINITY+cam+smp i386 ^^^^^^^^ What problems ? 3.0 - rulez. :) -- Best wishes, Eugeny Kuzakov Laboratory 321 ( Omsk, Russia ) kev@lab321.ru ICQ#: 5885106 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 15:28:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27025 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:28:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27020 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:28:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22233; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022210; Mon Oct 19 15:27:50 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19542; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:27:43 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810192227.PAA19542@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:27:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: brett@lariat.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810190637.XAA16847@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Oct 18, 98 11:37:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I'm interested in producing some programming tools that will aid in the > > development of code for FreeBSD. Unfortunately, when I've asked various > > people about such things as the object and executable formats, they've all > > told me that there was no documentation of these things, and that the best > > way to do this was to UTSL ("Use the source, Luke!"). I was pointed, in > > particular, to the as(1) assembler and ld(1) linker. > > As has been mentioned previously, the ELF object format is copiously > described by the ELF documentation, sources for which have been posted > here several times. See also "man a.out". > > Unfortunately, when I looked for the source in the 3.0-current tree, I > > discovered, to my horror, that both programs were in the /src/gnu > > subdirectory. This creates a problem. Technically, if I use GPLed source, I > > must GPL the resulting product. And both as(1) and ld(1) are GPLed. > > Binutils uses libbfd, which unfortunately is licensed under the GPL, > not the LGPL. No need to really rehash this here; the statement misses the distinction between "use" and "utilize". You can "utilize" GPL'ed code all you want. > > If I'm going to start doing language compilers (and an optimizing > > assembler) for FreeBSD, I need descriptions of the object format, > > executable format, register usage conventions, parameter passing > > conventions, and library conventions that are independent of any GPLed > > code. How can I obtain these? These would also be required by any > > commercial developer (say, Green Hills, Borland, or Watcom) who wished to > > develop tools for FreeBSD, so they wouldn't just be for MY benefit; they're > > necessary to open up the tools market to ANYONE other than the FSF. The main issue is the assmebler. For a compiler that can produce ELF code, and which is under a BSD-style license, do a net search on "TenDRA". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 16:36:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03892 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:36:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03887 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:36:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id RAA26565; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981019171423.0673f240@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:29:34 -0600 To: Terry Lambert , mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810192227.PAA19542@usr07.primenet.com> References: <199810190637.XAA16847@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 10:27 PM 10/19/98 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: >See also "man a.out". There's a fair amount of stuff there, but I can see many places where it might be open to interpretation. Would have to experiment to see how boundary conditions, etc. fleshed out. >No need to really rehash this here; the statement misses the distinction >between "use" and "utilize". You can "utilize" GPL'ed code all you >want. I understand the distinction. What I don't want to do, however, is DEPEND on GPLed code. >The main issue is the assmebler. For a compiler that can produce >ELF code, and which is under a BSD-style license, do a net search on >"TenDRA". I have; it's an interesting idea.. The problems that I see are that their attempt to formalize an intermediate language for the abstract syntax tree seems only to have been applied to C and C++. It's unclear how well it works for arbitrary languages. For example, as best I can tell, it only supports C-style null-terminated strings; it doesn't seem to support counted strings as a low-level construct. The instructions for porting TenDRA imply that it must be bootstrapped using GCC; it does not appear that it can bootstrap itself. Finally, it looks as if it uses as(1) and ld(1) on the target system rather than implementing them itself. So, when you get down to the assembly and object code levels, you're back in GNU territory. I'd like to go right down to the bare metal. To do this, I'll need to learn how libraries are indexed, perhaps creating an index of them on the fly. And I'd probably need to make a header file converter. the C ones (.h) won't do much good for other languages.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 17:07:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA07485 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:07:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA07422 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:07:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wsanchez@scv1.apple.com) Received: from mailgate.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29054 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:46:15 -0700 Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate.apple.com (mailgate.apple.com - SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:45:56 -0700 Received: from joliet-jake (joliet-jake.apple.com [17.202.40.140]) by scv1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15396; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:45:54 -0700 Message-Id: <199810192345.QAA15396@scv1.apple.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bostic@bostic.com, deraadt@OpenBSD.org Subject: NetBSD patches Cc: developers@netbsd.org Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:45:54 -0700 From: Wilfredo Sanchez Reply-To: wsanchez@apple.com Received: by Apple.Mailer (2.95.2) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ If you've gotten similar email before, I apologize, but I think my mailer is eating some outgoing mail, especially mail with big patches. :-) ] I've gotten requests from people outside of NetBSD to make the patches I sent NetBSD available elsewhere, so, at the following location: ftp://calloway.mit.edu/users/tritan/BSD/ are a few patch files which represent the diffs between the head of the NetBSD CVS tree at whatever time I did my last update and my code. I made an effort to remove any #ifdef __APPLE__ hacks I had put in to work around bugs in our system. (No, I'm not holding back on any cool fixes or features!) ;-) I have not, however done much more than that; the code may or may not be useful outside of NetBSD; though I imagine that some of it is. Note that the patches are organized by project in my sources, which is not organized in one big tree like the BSD sources, and that relevant Makefile changes are not included, since I use GNU make, not BSD make. Thanks the the NetBSD gang for good feedback on my changes and for helping me get my job done and putting up with my infusion of diffs. Take care, -Fred --- Wilfredo Sanchez | wsanchez@apple.com | 408.974-5174 Apple Computer, Inc., 1 Infinite Loop 302.4K, Cupertino, CA 95014 (Mac OS X) Core Operating Systems Group | BSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 18:38:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA19069 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:38:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from atdot.dotat.org (atdot.dotat.org [203.23.150.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19056 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from newton@atdot.dotat.org) Received: (from newton@localhost) by atdot.dotat.org (8.8.8/8.7) id LAA15619 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:07:52 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:07:52 +0930 (CST) From: Mark Newton Message-Id: <199810200137.LAA15619@atdot.dotat.org> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: UFS quotas Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has any work been done on UFS quotas over the last six months or so? Are they expected to work on -current snapshots from May, or do I need to upgrade? (yes, I know there are lots of other compelling reasons to upgrade anyway, but I'm asking about quotas this time 'round :-) - mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried an internal modem, newton@atdot.dotat.org but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton ----- Voice: +61-4-1958-3414 ------------- Fax: +61-8-83034403 ----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 22:26:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA07903 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:26:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA07897 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:26:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA17660; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12850; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810200342.UAA12850@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: softupdates and sync cc: Peter Jeremy , dg@root.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:48:32 PDT." <199810190648.XAA11043@implode.root.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:42:30 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <98Oct19.070445est.40346@border.alcanet.com.au> Peter Jeremy writes: : > Flush the dirty buffers to disk? : sync(2) requests that all dirty buffers get flushed, it just doesn't : wait for the flush to complete. No, it doesn't schedule the writes even. I get no disk traffic after the sync happens. The disk just sits there, but when I do an umount, lots and lot of traffic happens. I've waited as long as 5 minutes for the sync to complete, but no disk traffic happens in this time, but when I umount the disk, I get 30+seconds of solid disk activity. Eg: rm -rf /fred/some-big-dir sync umount /fred Shouldn't sync schedule those 30 seconds of write to happen after I hit return, but before I get my prompt back? I don't think that it is... Warner The sync system call goes through all the mounted filesystems calling VFS_SYNC. In the case of UFS, this gets us to ffs_sync which walks the vnode list doing VOP_FSYNC with MNT_NOWAIT set. VOP_FSYNC will walk the dirty list associated with the vnode doing bawrite (or bdwrite/vfs_bio_awrite if B_CLUSTEROK is set). I suspect that the problem has to do with the interaction with the new VM's system desire to dissolve buffers, leaving the dirty page identified only in the page cache. Thus it is not found by the above sequence of events. It is not until the unmount occurs that the VM system flushes out the dirty pages associated with the mount point. If true, the fix is to augment VOP_FSYNC to also call the VM system to flush out any dirty pages that it is holding for the vnode. It should be doing this anyway since VOP_FSYNC is supposed to ensure that all the dirty pages are written to disk. My other hypothesis on what is happening is that the bdwrite/vfs_bio_awrite is somehow deciding not to write the dirty pages. I have not traced down through the vfs_bio_awrite code to discern its decision making algorithm on when to write and when not to write. It may be that the fix is as simple as deleting the call to the immediately preceeding bdwrite (as is done in the MNT_WAIT case). Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 23:12:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA11875 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA11868 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:12:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4027.ime.net [209.90.195.37]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id CAA00538 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:11:47 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981020020921.00aba4b0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:10:34 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: EP Driver Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Anyone currently working on fixing the buggy EP driver? Noticed a progressive drop in performance (Actually I just figured it was my Frame Relay connection to the net) and moved to an Etherlink XL card, but I still do have 2 3C509's in there I wouldn't mind using.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Oct 19 23:24:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA12788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:24:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles150.castles.com [208.214.165.150]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12779 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:24:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02308; Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:29:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810200629.XAA02308@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EP Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:10:34 EDT." <4.1.0.67.19981020020921.00aba4b0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:29:13 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Anyone currently working on fixing the buggy EP driver? Noticed a > progressive drop in performance (Actually I just figured it was my Frame > Relay connection to the net) and moved to an Etherlink XL card, but I still > do have 2 3C509's in there I wouldn't mind using.. There are some people trying. No news of real progress at this stage. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 01:23:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:23:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA21505 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:22:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA02322; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:22:57 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199810200922.EAA02322@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 04:20:47 -0400 To: Warner Losh From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: FreeBSD for Strongarm? Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810190636.AAA20131@harmony.village.org> References: <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 12:36 AM 10/19/98 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >In message <362A402D.BBB2DD30@ix.netcom.com> David Feustel writes: >: Any chance of a StrongARM port for FreeBSD? > >Yes. If someone does it :-) > >: How much x86-specific code is in FreeBSD? > >It varies. In places it is completely OS neutral, and even 64 bit >clean. In others there are grotty little i386isms that dog your every >step. If you were trying to build a userland version of >FreeBSD/StrongARM, in a cross compiler environment, I'd guess that it >would take about 2-6 weeks of effort, depending on how cross the cross >environment is. It would also help if you used a *BSD/StrongARM >kernel + FreeBSD userland. This worked well with the Alpha port, plus >at least one other port that is still in the development stages. Exactly what other port would this be? >As for the kernel, I don't know much about StrongARM, so I can't say >on that. I once estimated the kernel porting time to a MIPS machine >to be on the order of 3 man months, give or take, but that was before >the alpha stuff went into the kernel. It would likely take less now, >assuming that the StrongARM has a decent MMU or MMU-like thing. > >Warner > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 01:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA22699 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.isi.edu (zephyr.isi.edu [128.9.160.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA22694 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:38:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from surya@ISI.EDU) Received: from localhost (surya@localhost) by zephyr.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id BAA03240 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:38:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Suryaputra To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Page fault while in kernel mode, bug? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I was running a big simulation as root. I know it is wrong but I want to gain full access to the resources (I tried to setup the limits in /etc/login.conf with no success... however, this part is mine to figure out). When I ran the simulation, I found a seems like interesting bug that you might probably interested in taking a look. Here is a snapshot of the kernel debugger screen: >--- >Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0x2b2 >fault code = supervisor read, page not present >instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01434ba >stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbfff2c >frame pointer = 0x10:0xf2830400 >code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >current process = 2 (page daemon) >interrupt mask = >kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 >Stopped at _vput+0x1a: movl 0x1c(%ebx),%edx > >db>show registers >cs 0x8 >ds 0xefbf0010 >es 0xf03c0010 >ss 0x10 >eax 0x2 >ecx 0x1e >edx 0xefbffe58 _kstack+0x1e58 >ebx 0x296 >esp 0xefbfff2c _kstack+0x1f2c >ebp 0xf2775a80 >esi 0x8 >edi 0x296 >eip 0xf01434ba _vput+0x1a >efl 0x10286 >_vput+0x1a: movl 0x1c(%ebx),%edx This error hit me several times, and for curiosity, I ran exactly the same simulation on two machines and both get the same error, at the same instruction pointer. The interesting part, is that the error shows that there is a page fault in kernel mode. I ran it on FreeBSD-2.2.6-RELEASE and while I ran it, several messages showed up saying that there is not enough swap space. I will be very happy to reproduce the error, and work together with you to find out what's wrong. Thank you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 02:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA24393 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:02:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA24373 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:02:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA12076; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:31:56 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA21207; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:31:48 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981020183148.G21008@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:31:48 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Stephen Suryaputra , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Page fault while in kernel mode, bug? References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Stephen Suryaputra on Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 01:38:21AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 20 October 1998 at 1:38:21 -0700, Stephen Suryaputra wrote: > Hi, > > I was running a big simulation as root. I know it is wrong but I want to > gain full access to the resources (I tried to setup the limits in > /etc/login.conf with no success... however, this part is mine to figure > out). When I ran the simulation, I found a seems like interesting bug that > you might probably interested in taking a look. Here is a snapshot of the > kernel debugger screen: > >> --- >> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >> fault virtual address = 0x2b2 >> fault code = supervisor read, page not present >> instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf01434ba >> stack pointer = 0x10:0xefbfff2c >> frame pointer = 0x10:0xf2830400 >> code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b >> = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 >> processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 >> current process = 2 (page daemon) >> interrupt mask = >> kernel: type 12 trap, code=0 >> Stopped at _vput+0x1a: movl 0x1c(%ebx),%edx > > This error hit me several times, and for curiosity, I ran exactly the same > simulation on two machines and both get the same error, at the same > instruction pointer. The interesting part, is that the error shows that > there is a page fault in kernel mode. > > I ran it on FreeBSD-2.2.6-RELEASE and while I ran it, several messages > showed up saying that there is not enough swap space. Try adding swap and see if you can still reproduce the bug. > I will be very happy to reproduce the error, and work together with you to > find out what's wrong. Look at the section on kernel debugging in the online handbook (in case of doubt, http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/handbook293.html#634). The most important thing to get is a stack backtrace. That might even be enough to say what is causing the problem. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 04:33:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA06166 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:33:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA06161 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:33:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CHICOPHILE@aol.com) From: CHICOPHILE@aol.com Received: from CHICOPHILE@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id HYYSa18750 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:33:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86ef4762.362c74f1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:33:05 EDT To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #281 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG UNSUBSCRIBE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 07:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA19557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:11:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zephyr.cybercom.net (zephyr.cybercom.net [209.21.146.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA19552 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rhuff@cybercom.net) Received: from shell1.cybercom.net (rhuff@shell1.cybercom.net [209.21.136.6]) by zephyr.cybercom.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09026 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:10:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rhuff@localhost) by shell1.cybercom.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23761; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:10:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Huff Message-Id: <199810201410.KAA23761@shell1.cybercom.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-Reply-To: <45017153@toto.iv> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra writes: > I haven't studied the code, but I know what the documentation > says. It says, "sync() may return before the buffers are > completely flushed." It doesn't say that if you run it a second > time, it will make sure that the first sync() has completed. > There's no stated guarantee of that kind. So, short of umount, is there a program (or system call that can be turned into a program) that will cause the filesystem to _immediately_ flush unwritten buffers? Robert Huff To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-Reply-To: <45017153@toto.iv> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid --text follows this line-- John Polstra writes: > I haven't studied the code, but I know what the documentation > says. It says, "sync() may return before the buffers are > completely flushed." It doesn't say that if you run it a second > time, it will make sure that the first sync() has completed. > There's no stated guarantee of that kind. So, short of umount, is there a program (or system call that can be turned into a program) that will cause the filesystem to _immediately_ flush unwritten buffers? Robert Huff To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 07:20:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20149 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA20144 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:20:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14952; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:20:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981020102029.A14879@netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:20:29 -0400 From: Christopher Masto To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <199810191900.MAA00611@dingo.cdrom.com> <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981019130712.065ac610@mail.lariat.org>; from Brett Glass on Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 01:09:54PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 01:09:54PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > At 12:00 PM 10/19/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > >libbfd is the binary file descriptor library; it contains primitives > >for reading and writing the various file formats that binutils > >supports. as, ld and ar all use it for manipulating their files. > > Hmm. I could write some code that used it to generate samples, then > emulate what it did. Awkward, though. And a shame that I'd have > to reinvent the wheel. That's what open source software is supposed > to avoid! Ah, but to those who believe in the RMS-style free software philosophy, the goal is to have free software, not to be able to borrow free code for use in proprietary programs. Whether you believe that way or not, I think this is a demonstration that the GPL at least partly achieves that goal. If your intention were to write free software, you would be able to use the work of those who wrote GNU binutils. They made those programs, and they have a right to establish the conditions under you can use and distribute them, and those conditions require that they remain free. I am not trying to advocate a particular view here, I just don't like to see GNU-bashing from the BSD people and BSD-bashing from the Linux people. It would be worthwile to understand each other, if not to respect each other. In the end, it's unfortunate that the licensing systems are incompatable. A compiler is a large project, and putting tons of effort into a new one just to attain the purity of not distributing GCC seems almost as silly as putting a disk platter on your head and blessing people's computers. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations S NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net SSS http://www.netmonger.net \_/ [...] Microsoft has taken a perfectly good standard, broken it, and then told us that we have to buy expensive programs that support the broken interface rather than use the free ones that come with all operating systems in the world except Microsoft operating systems. - ALLEN HOLUB, Programmer and Columnist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 07:22:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA20349 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:22:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20344 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:22:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id JGKRUUJJ; Tue, 20 Oct 98 14:22:26 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981020162222.0091a640@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:22:22 +0200 To: Brett Glass , David Holland From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981019150118.06775920@mail.lariat.org> References: <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Have you considered switching to a non-AT&T-syntax compiler, such as NASM? As I recall, NASM does not suffer from GPL... I'm pretty fluent at 'normal' syntax assembly, though I'm a bit rusty with p+ instructions and the coprocessor. I have no real experience in parsers, though.. I would love to see FreeBSD switch to a 'normal' syntax. --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:14:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA24639 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:14:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA24634 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:14:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04309; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810201513.IAA04309@austin.polstra.com> To: kaleb@ics.com Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com> References: <4.1.19981019134220.065a3be0@mail.lariat.org> <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:13:44 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com>, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > but I don't recall that it specified parameter passing and register > usage Yes, it does specify all of that. And no, we don't differ from it on our ELF systems (or on our a.out systems either). John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA25625 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:25:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ics.com (ics.com [140.186.40.192]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25620 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:25:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kaleb@ics.com) Received: from ics.com (sunoco.ics.com [140.186.40.142]) by ics.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA25467 Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <362CAB52.2DAE8B0A@ics.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:25:06 -0400 From: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" Organization: Integrated Computer Solutions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <4.1.19981019134220.065a3be0@mail.lariat.org> <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com> <199810201513.IAA04309@austin.polstra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > > In article <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com>, > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > > No, we don't differ from it > on our ELF systems (or on our a.out systems either). Right. That was my point: gcc would have had to conform to it, and there would have been no reason for 386BSD to have changed it, or any of *BSD to have changed it. So, where is the FreeBSD ABI defined?!? -- Kaleb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:30:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26152 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:30:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26143 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:30:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04387; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:29:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810201529.IAA04387@austin.polstra.com> To: rhuff@cybercom.net Subject: Re: softupdates and sync In-Reply-To: <199810201410.KAA23761@shell1.cybercom.net> References: <199810201410.KAA23761@shell1.cybercom.net> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:29:53 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199810201410.KAA23761@shell1.cybercom.net>, Robert Huff wrote: > So, short of umount, is there a program (or system call that > can be turned into a program) that will cause the filesystem to > _immediately_ flush unwritten buffers? For individual files, there is fsync(). John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:32:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26366 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:32:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26361 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:32:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id JAA03337; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981020091349.06ac29d0@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:28:52 -0600 To: Marius Bendiksen , David Holland From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981020162222.0091a640@mail.scancall.no> References: <4.1.19981019150118.06775920@mail.lariat.org> <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 04:22 PM 10/20/98 +0200, Marius Bendiksen wrote: >Have you considered switching to a non-AT&T-syntax compiler, such as NASM? >As I recall, NASM does not suffer from GPL... The NASM license is essentially the GPL. To quote from the docs: Basically, NASM is free. You can't charge for it. You can copy it as much as you like. You can incorporate it, or bits of it, into other free programs if you want. (But we want to know about it if you do, and we want to be mentioned in the credits.) We may well allow you to incorporate it into commercial software too, but we'll probably demand some money for it, and we'll certainly demand to be given credit. And in extreme cases (although I can't immediately think of a reason we might actually want to do this) we may refuse to let you do it at all. >I'm pretty fluent at 'normal' syntax assembly, though I'm a bit rusty with >p+ instructions and the coprocessor. I have no real experience in parsers, >though.. Parsing assembly language is pretty easy. The trickiest part of the "normal" syntax is that the validity (or non-validity) and semantics of a statement may depend on context. For instance, "assume" directives can change the semantics of statements that follow them. The assembler has to be worried about segmentation, and must search for the segment register through which it can "reach" a symbol. It gets tricky. That's why Borland invented its "ideal" Intel assembly language syntax. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:33:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26498 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:33:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26487 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:33:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04419; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:32:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810201532.IAA04419@austin.polstra.com> To: surya@ISI.EDU Subject: Re: Page fault while in kernel mode, bug? In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:32:39 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Stephen Suryaputra wrote: > I was running a big simulation as root. I know it is wrong but I want to > gain full access to the resources (I tried to setup the limits in > /etc/login.conf with no success... however, this part is mine to figure > out). The most common mistake is that people forget to follow the instructions in the comment at the top of the file: # cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf # # Don't forget to do this after each edit as well! John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:34:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA26606 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net (porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net [206.64.4.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA26596 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) Received: from localhost (bright@localhost) by porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA28828; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:35:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bright@hotjobs.com) X-Authentication-Warning: porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net: bright owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:35:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Alfred Perlstein X-Sender: bright@porkfriedrice.ny.genx.net To: "Kaleb S. KEITHLEY" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362CAB52.2DAE8B0A@ics.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > John Polstra wrote: > > > > In article <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com>, > > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > > > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > > > > No, we don't differ from it > > on our ELF systems (or on our a.out systems either). > > Right. That was my point: gcc would have had to conform to it, and there > would have been no reason for 386BSD to have changed it, or any of *BSD > to have changed it. > > So, where is the FreeBSD ABI defined?!? > > -- > Kaleb > Do a search for pgcc, its web pages speak a lot about ABIs and have several informative links. Alfred Perlstein - Programmer, HotJobs Inc. - www.hotjobs.com -- There are operating systems, and then there's FreeBSD. -- http://www.freebsd.org/ 3.0-current To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:45:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.tcii.net (mail.tcii.net [206.30.202.34]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA27774; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:45:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from info@tcii.net) From: info@tcii.net Received: from rcosgrove (unverified [206.30.202.43]) by mail.tcii.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:45:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-Sender: info@tcii.net Subject: NEW SECURE INFO MANAGEMENT SYSTEM X-Mailer: XSendit EMail Minion (c) 1997 QTI Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:50:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MailLibrary: EMail Minion by Rob Cosgrove http://alice.net Organization: TCii - http://www.tcii.net Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id IAA27801 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Subject: NEW SECURE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ANNOUNCEMENT The reason that we are communicating to you is simple. We understand that you are concerned with information security solutions and we need to get the news out about a new kind of technology, which we call Premonition. You need to know that this brand new class of secure Internet publishing technology is in the final phase of development and our company is working hard to make it available! Please take just a few moments to visit our web page located at www.tcii.net/premonition. You will find that there are no requests to purchase anything. We believe our company is on target and that information-based businesses and clients who need secure publishing will benefit. This is an enormous opportunity involving the entire information publishing industry so we know we need help. During this final development phase our company is now beginning to organize a network of business contacts across the country and around the world including those who may wish to participate or become associated with us in this venture. 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You will see that sometimes it can be refreshing and worth your while to take a look at new information that drops in your email. Sincerely, Transaction Control International, Inc. Memphis, Tennessee www.tcii.net/premonition To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:49:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA28588 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA28529 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/Spinner) with ESMTP id XAA12216; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:44:08 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199810201544.XAA12216@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Polstra cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:13:44 MST." <199810201513.IAA04309@austin.polstra.com> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:44:07 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Polstra wrote: > In article <362B9D4D.500216A0@ics.com>, > Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > > > I didn't steal the Intel supplement to the ABI when I left my last job, > > but I don't recall that it specified parameter passing and register > > usage > > Yes, it does specify all of that. And no, we don't differ from it > on our ELF systems (or on our a.out systems either). Actually, there are some differences between us and the rest.. We use a different structure return method in both a.out and our native ELF.. ie: -fno-pcc-struct-return is default on FreeBSD. This means that for us, something like this struct foo func() { struct foo ret; .... return ret; } .. is reentrant as per the original gcc default. gcc changed to default to -fpcc-struct-return relatively late, around 2.4 or 2.5 from memory, and we didn't follow. The pcc method (the AT&T portable C compiler) was to pass around pointers to static data which got trashed on recursion or reuse somehow (eg: signal handler). I do not know if structure returns are part of the Intel ELF ABI or not. > John Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 08:53:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29183 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:53:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29176 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA04557; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:51:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810201551.IAA04557@austin.polstra.com> To: Peter Wemm cc: kaleb@ics.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:44:07 +0800." <199810201544.XAA12216@spinner.netplex.com.au> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:51:15 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I do not know if structure returns are part of the Intel ELF ABI or > not. Yes, they are specified. They have to be as in GCC's -fno-pcc-struct-return, i.e., re-entrant. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 09:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:10:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.scancall.no (www.scancall.no [195.139.183.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA01671 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:10:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Marius.Bendiksen@scancall.no) Received: from super2.langesund.scancall.no [195.139.183.29] by www with smtp id JGLSRJEJ; Tue, 20 Oct 98 16:09:45 GMT (PowerWeb version 4.04r6) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981020180941.009625b0@mail.scancall.no> X-Sender: Marius@mail.scancall.no X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:09:41 +0200 To: Brett Glass , David Holland From: Marius Bendiksen Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981020091349.06ac29d0@mail.lariat.org> References: <3.0.5.32.19981020162222.0091a640@mail.scancall.no> <4.1.19981019150118.06775920@mail.lariat.org> <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > [license] Oh. So much for that idea. You could probably try talking to the author, though; I think he'd be willing to issue a berkeley-licensed version. >Parsing assembly language is pretty easy. The trickiest part of the "normal" >syntax is that the validity (or non-validity) and semantics of a statement >may depend on context. For instance, "assume" directives can change the >semantics of statements that follow them. The assembler has to be worried >about segmentation, and must search for the segment register through >which it can "reach" a symbol. It gets tricky. That's why Borland invented >its "ideal" Intel assembly language syntax. Actually, that's where I like NASM. To quote the docs: NASM doesn't ASSUME. It's pretty clean-cut as far as everything is concerned.. --- Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 09:18:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02448 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:18:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02437 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:18:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04739; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:17:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810201617.JAA04739@austin.polstra.com> To: kaleb@ics.com Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362CAB52.2DAE8B0A@ics.com> References: <199810201513.IAA04309@austin.polstra.com> <362CAB52.2DAE8B0A@ics.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:17:40 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <362CAB52.2DAE8B0A@ics.com>, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote: > So, where is the FreeBSD ABI defined?!? In the System V ABI Spec? (Just kidding!) :-) -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 09:18:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02544 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from majordomo.clark.net (majordomo.clark.net [168.143.190.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02539 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:18:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from beekey@clark.net) From: beekey@clark.net Received: from loas.clark.net [168.143.0.13] by majordomo.clark.net with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0zVeUQ-0001WO-00; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:18:30 -0400 Received: from stout (basil.network42.clark.net [207.196.110.227]) by loas.clark.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06462 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <362CB750.5ECC@clark.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:16:16 -0400 Reply-To: beekey@clark.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bpf write overwrites link level header? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm currently working on some code that generates raw TCP/UDP packets. using the write capability of bpf to dump them onto the wire. Based on tcpdump output from another machine, they appear to be constructed with proper IP and TCP or UDP headers. However, somewhere in the depths, despite my building the Ethernet header and specifying both MAC addresses, the packets always end up on the wire with the sending host's correct source MAC address, rather than the one I specified in the code (yes the source IP is being spoofed and it comes out correct). Looking briefly at the code in /usr/src/sys/net/bpf.c, it appears that bpf may add its own link level header. Anyone have any experience or fixes/workarounds for this? I don't think that it is a NIC limitation due to some testing under NT. Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 09:21:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA02948 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:21:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02908 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:20:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (haldjas.folklore.ee [172.17.2.1] (may be forged)) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.8.8/8.8.4) with SMTP id TAA08732; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:18:36 +0300 (EEST) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:18:36 +0300 (EEST) From: Narvi To: Brett Glass cc: Terry Lambert , Mike Smith , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981019171423.0673f240@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:27 PM 10/19/98 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > >See also "man a.out". > > There's a fair amount of stuff there, but I can see many places where > it might be open to interpretation. Would have to experiment to > see how boundary conditions, etc. fleshed out. > > >No need to really rehash this here; the statement misses the distinction > >between "use" and "utilize". You can "utilize" GPL'ed code all you > >want. > > I understand the distinction. What I don't want to do, however, is > DEPEND on GPLed code. > > >The main issue is the assmebler. For a compiler that can produce > >ELF code, and which is under a BSD-style license, do a net search on > >"TenDRA". > > I have; it's an interesting idea.. The problems that I see are that > their attempt to formalize an intermediate language for the abstract > syntax tree seems only to have been applied to C and C++. It's unclear > how well it works for arbitrary languages. For example, as best I > can tell, it only supports C-style null-terminated strings; it doesn't > seem to support counted strings as a low-level construct. > > The instructions for porting TenDRA imply that it must be bootstrapped > using GCC; it does not appear that it can bootstrap itself. > Doesn't GCC also need a working compiler (or cross compiler) to be ported to a new system? > Finally, it looks as if it uses as(1) and ld(1) on the target system > rather than implementing them itself. So, when you get down to the > assembly and object code levels, you're back in GNU territory. > Right. But if you use it, you get BSD licenced modern compiler for free. So you don't have to make a compiler and a toolchain. > I'd like to go right down to the bare metal. To do this, I'll need > to learn how libraries are indexed, perhaps creating an index of > them on the fly. And I'd probably need to make a header file converter. > the C ones (.h) won't do much good for other languages.... This should be expected anyways, as I gather. > > --Brett > Sander There is no love, no good, no happiness and no future - all these are just illusions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 09:55:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA07814 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:55:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lariat.lariat.org (lariat.lariat.org [206.100.185.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07809 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: (from brett@localhost) by lariat.lariat.org (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA03995; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981020104739.06d73e60@mail.lariat.org> X-Sender: brett@mail.lariat.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:51:24 -0600 To: Marius Bendiksen , David Holland From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981020180941.009625b0@mail.scancall.no> References: <4.1.19981020091349.06ac29d0@mail.lariat.org> <3.0.5.32.19981020162222.0091a640@mail.scancall.no> <4.1.19981019150118.06775920@mail.lariat.org> <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:09 PM 10/20/98 +0200, Marius Bendiksen wrote: >Oh. So much for that idea. You could probably try talking to the author, >though; I think he'd be willing to issue a berkeley-licensed version. There's multiple authorship. We'd have to see. >Actually, that's where I like NASM. To quote the docs: NASM doesn't ASSUME. >It's pretty clean-cut as far as everything is concerned.. Eliminating the "assumptions" made by the assembler removes some headaches but creates others. For example, do you have to specify SS: explicitly every time you index off of BP (or EBP)? (BP implicitly points into the stack segment, though you can use it as a pointer into anything.) The assembler still has to know the default segment addressed by an index register, or it'll generate extra override bytes. And it needs to catch "double overrides," which aren't allowed. (That is, you can't do a segment override on more than one operand.) Things can get messy. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 10:03:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA08628 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:03:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net [208.140.84.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA08595 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net) Received: from s23-pm50.snaustel.campus.mci.net (s23-pm50.snaustel.campus.mci.net [206.96.232.76]) by aus-f.mp.campus.mci.net (8.9.0/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA25385; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:02:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Funk X-Sender: mwfunk@foo.bar.com Reply-To: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net To: Brett Glass cc: Marius Bendiksen , David Holland , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981020091349.06ac29d0@mail.lariat.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Brett Glass wrote: > The NASM license is essentially the GPL. It's actually much ickier, because the authors basically reserve the right to make whimsical decisions on a case-by-case basis at a later date, which might change the terms of the license. I like NASM, but always felt that the license was its weak link. I think the guys that wrote it just never cared all that much about the legal niceties of free software licenses, and didn't want to be bothered with it. There's tons of programs on Sunsite (for example) with ambiguous, oddball licenses like that. An upshot is, that if you really wanted to use NASM as the basis for another assembler, you might be able to contact the authors directly and get permission to make a derived work under another license (like 2-clause BSDL or something). Although if writing an assembler isn't that big of a deal, it might not be worth the bother. Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 10:33:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA11177 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:33:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11167 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4008.ime.net [209.90.195.18]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id NAA01057; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:32:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981020133105.00ac99d0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:31:44 -0400 To: Mike Smith From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: EP Driver Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810200629.XAA02308@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Well at least it isn't too far off. Just sluggish at times, so no big arguements. Could drop the Realtek (Addtron) NE2000-Compat things back in if it becomes a real deal. Sides, the Etherlink XL Card is significantly better anyway :) At 11:29 PM 10/19/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> Anyone currently working on fixing the buggy EP driver? Noticed a >> progressive drop in performance (Actually I just figured it was my Frame >> Relay connection to the net) and moved to an Etherlink XL card, but I still >> do have 2 3C509's in there I wouldn't mind using.. > >There are some people trying. No news of real progress at this stage. > >-- >\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith >\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au >\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 11:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA15741 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:19:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA15736 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:19:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thallgren@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981020182219.575.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [195.100.221.27] by send104.yahoomail.com; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:22:19 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Hallgren Subject: Active partition flag is cleared by -STABLE To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi! I'm running -STABLE and this weekend I cvsup'ed and made world as usual. Some changes to FreeBSD was made recently that makes FreeBSD clear the "active partition" mark for my first IDE disk. It's very annoying to have to use a bootdisk and run fdisk.exe everytime I reboot my compter. My configuration is: ABit AX5 motherboard Intel Pentium 200 MMX 64MB RAM FireGL 1000Pro gfx card Primary IDE interface: disk 0: Quantum 1280. Entire disk i FAT32/Win95. BIOS type is "LBA". This is the partition marked active. disk 1: Hitachi CD-ROM Secondary IDE interface: disk 0: IBM Deskstar 4 4.3G. BIOS type is "Normal" About 500MB DOS, rest is BSD. disk 1: no disk I also upgraded my motherboard BIOS this weekend. Of course it *can* be the BIOS that causes this bug, but I think that's unlikely. I can't remember when the problems started, so I wouldn't rule anything out. Regards, Tommy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 11:45:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18208 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ceia.nordier.com (m2-56-dbn.dial-up.net [196.34.155.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18202 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:45:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@nordier.com) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id UAA01909; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:44:32 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199810201844.UAA01909@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: Active partition flag is cleared by -STABLE In-Reply-To: <19981020182219.575.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> from Tommy Hallgren at "Oct 20, 98 11:22:19 am" To: thallgren@yahoo.com (Tommy Hallgren) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:44:30 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tommy Hallgren wrote: > I'm running -STABLE and this weekend I cvsup'ed and made world as > usual. > > Some changes to FreeBSD was made recently that makes FreeBSD clear the > "active partition" mark for my first IDE disk. It's very annoying to > have to use a bootdisk and run fdisk.exe everytime I reboot my compter. > > My configuration is: > ABit AX5 motherboard > Intel Pentium 200 MMX > 64MB RAM > FireGL 1000Pro gfx card > > Primary IDE interface: > disk 0: Quantum 1280. Entire disk i FAT32/Win95. BIOS type is "LBA". > This is the partition marked active. > disk 1: Hitachi CD-ROM > > Secondary IDE interface: > disk 0: IBM Deskstar 4 4.3G. BIOS type is "Normal" > About 500MB DOS, rest is BSD. > disk 1: no disk > > I also upgraded my motherboard BIOS this weekend. Of course it *can* > be the BIOS that causes this bug, but I think that's unlikely. I can't > remember when the problems started, so I wouldn't rule anything out. Have you actually changed your boot blocks or partition manager recently? Does this happen only once you've booted FreeBSD, or even if you go straight into Windows? Incidentally, it is probably a good plan to send a report like this to freebsd-bugs, using send-pr. Messages sent to -hackers are quite likely to be ignored, unless they catch someone's eye immediately. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 12:17:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA21385 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:17:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA21380 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00548; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Christopher Masto cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:20:29 EDT." <19981020102029.A14879@netmonger.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:21:41 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 01:09:54PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > > At 12:00 PM 10/19/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > >libbfd is the binary file descriptor library; it contains primitives > > >for reading and writing the various file formats that binutils > > >supports. as, ld and ar all use it for manipulating their files. > > > > Hmm. I could write some code that used it to generate samples, then > > emulate what it did. Awkward, though. And a shame that I'd have > > to reinvent the wheel. That's what open source software is supposed > > to avoid! > > Ah, but to those who believe in the RMS-style free software > philosophy, the goal is to have free software, not to be able to > borrow free code for use in proprietary programs. Whether you believe > that way or not, I think this is a demonstration that the GPL at least > partly achieves that goal. If your intention were to write free > software, you would be able to use the work of those who wrote GNU > binutils. They made those programs, and they have a right to > establish the conditions under you can use and distribute them, and > those conditions require that they remain free. The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". If it were truly free, Brett could do what he liked with it. In point of fact, GPL'ed code is no more "free" than proprietary code. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 13:00:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26092 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:00:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26085 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:00:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA03943; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:59:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362CEBB8.6CCAE63E@gorean.org> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:59:52 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Smith CC: Drew Baxter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EP Driver References: <199810200629.XAA02308@dingo.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > > > Anyone currently working on fixing the buggy EP driver? Noticed a > > progressive drop in performance (Actually I just figured it was my Frame > > Relay connection to the net) and moved to an Etherlink XL card, but I still > > do have 2 3C509's in there I wouldn't mind using.. > > There are some people trying. No news of real progress at this stage. I have one of those cards so I'd be happy to assist with testing if anyone has code that's ready to test. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 13:31:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29729 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29722 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:31:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA06740; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:26:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:26:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Berlin To: Studded cc: Mike Smith , Drew Baxter , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: EP Driver In-Reply-To: <362CEBB8.6CCAE63E@gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have all kinds of 3Com beta hardware to test on this (new revisions of cards, etc), so let me know too. On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Studded wrote: > Mike Smith wrote: > > > > > Anyone currently working on fixing the buggy EP driver? Noticed a > > > progressive drop in performance (Actually I just figured it was my Frame > > > Relay connection to the net) and moved to an Etherlink XL card, but I still > > > do have 2 3C509's in there I wouldn't mind using.. > > > > There are some people trying. No news of real progress at this stage. > > I have one of those cards so I'd be happy to assist with testing if > anyone has code that's ready to test. > > Doug > -- > *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** > > Go PADRES! > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:01:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA02594 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from datacompusa.com (grand-rapids-252-72.iserv.net [208.224.11.72]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02568 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:01:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (msb.datacompusa.com [192.168.1.100]) by datacompusa.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA02050; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:01:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from msb@datacompusa.com) Message-Id: <199810202101.RAA02050@datacompusa.com> Subject: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE Date: Tue, 20 Oct 98 17:01:42 -0400 x-sender: msb@datacompusa.com. x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Michael Scott Boers To: "freebsd-hackers" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have previously submitted this question to freebsd-questions and freebsd-hardware with no response. I hope some kind soul on this may be able to help me. I am having trouble getting a Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP (PCI, 8 port) multiport serial card to work with my FreeBSD 2.2.7 machine. I would appreciate any help anyone can give me towards solving this problem. If anyone out there is using a Cyclom-8YeP card with 2.2.7, please let me know. Should I just give up and get the isa version instead? PROBLEM SUMMARY: During bootup, the kernel finds the card but reports no ports found. (Exerpt from boot sequence with the -v added) cy0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:9:0 mapreg[10] type=0 addr=ffadff80 size=0080. mapreg[14] type=1 addr=00007c80 size=0080. mapreg[18] type=1 addr=000dc000 size=3f80. cy_pci.c cy_attach config_id.cfg1 = 80004800 /*Added to peak at the values*/ cy_pci.c cy_attach unit = 0 /*Added to peak at the values*/ cy_pci.c cy_attach ioport = 7c80 /*Added to peak at the values*/ cy_pci.c cy_attach paddr = dc000 /*Added to peak at the values*/ cy_pci.c cy_attach vaddr = f4d3b000 /*Added to peak at the values*/ cy0: no ports found! So as you can see, the pci probe finds the card, but the attach sequence fails. I have already updated the i386/isa/cy.c and i386/isa/cyreg.h with the new version (1.41.3.1) from Cyclades. This has not helped. WHAT I HAVE TRIED: CYCTEST.EXE (from Cyclades) reports everything is fine. Output from CYCTEST: Device: 64 BusNumber: 0 Vendor ID: 120Eh Device ID: 0100h Class Code: 078000h Revision ID: 01h Interrupt Line: 9 Runtime Regs Addr: 00007C81h Base Address Reg: 000DC002h Firmware ID: 13 FirmWare Rev: 3 Number of Ports:8 ID Number: 9DA74502 EEPROM Version: 3 CD1400 #0: 48h CD1400 #1: 48h CD1400 #2: 00h CD1400 #3: 00h CD1400 #4: 00h CD1400 #5: 00h CD1400 #6: 00h CD1400 #7: 00h Changing the base address with CYCTEST (from Y < 1MB to Y > 1MB) doesn't help. Swaping the card with my Intel Pro 100 (which changes the assign IRQ) doesn't help. When I look at the values in memory (using ddb or gdb -k) the entire 16kb allocated by cy_pci.c at 0xf4d3b000 reports back 0xffffffff. My understanding of how this card works suggests that while the upper three bytes of each work should be 0xffffff the lower byte should hold meaningful data. For example, the base address + 0x0100 should be 0xffffff48 because 0x48 is the version number of the cd1400 on the card. I installed 3.0-RELEASE on this machine as a last ditch effort to get the card to work. Same results as 2.2.7 POSSIBLE CLUE: Normally I have set the shadow memory for 0xdc000 to be disabled. However, when I set it to cached, the kernel finds the card. ddb abd gdb report back reasonable values when peaking at the 16kb allocated by the card. The card doesn't work worth beans in this mode because all of the memory is write protected due to shadowing being enabled, but AT LEAST IT IS SOMETHING! Setting shadowing to enable does not work either. -- Michael Boers Datacomp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:07:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03207 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:07:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03198 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:07:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01190; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810202110.OAA01190@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Michael Scott Boers cc: "freebsd-hackers" Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:01:42 EDT." <199810202101.RAA02050@datacompusa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:10:56 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Start by checking that you're using the most recent driver from Cyclades site. Note that I've seen serious problems with these cards and some (mostly 430VX and SiS chipset) motherboards. > I have previously submitted this question to freebsd-questions and > freebsd-hardware with no response. I hope some kind soul on this may be > able to help me. > > I am having trouble getting a Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP (PCI, 8 port) > multiport serial card to work with my FreeBSD 2.2.7 machine. I would > appreciate any help anyone can give me towards solving this problem. If > anyone out there is using a Cyclom-8YeP card with 2.2.7, please let me > know. Should I just give up and get the isa version instead? > > PROBLEM SUMMARY: > > During bootup, the kernel finds the card but reports no ports found. > > (Exerpt from boot sequence with the -v added) > > cy0 rev 1 int a irq 10 on pci0:9:0 > mapreg[10] type=0 addr=ffadff80 size=0080. > mapreg[14] type=1 addr=00007c80 size=0080. > mapreg[18] type=1 addr=000dc000 size=3f80. > cy_pci.c cy_attach config_id.cfg1 = 80004800 /*Added to peak at the > values*/ > cy_pci.c cy_attach unit = 0 /*Added to peak at the > values*/ > cy_pci.c cy_attach ioport = 7c80 /*Added to peak at the > values*/ > cy_pci.c cy_attach paddr = dc000 /*Added to peak at the > values*/ > cy_pci.c cy_attach vaddr = f4d3b000 /*Added to peak at the > values*/ > cy0: no ports found! > > So as you can see, the pci probe finds the card, but the attach sequence > fails. I have already updated the i386/isa/cy.c and i386/isa/cyreg.h > with the new version (1.41.3.1) from Cyclades. This has not helped. > > WHAT I HAVE TRIED: > > CYCTEST.EXE (from Cyclades) reports everything is fine. > Output from CYCTEST: > Device: 64 > BusNumber: 0 > Vendor ID: 120Eh > Device ID: 0100h > Class Code: 078000h > Revision ID: 01h > Interrupt Line: 9 > Runtime Regs Addr: 00007C81h > Base Address Reg: 000DC002h > Firmware ID: 13 > FirmWare Rev: 3 > Number of Ports:8 > ID Number: 9DA74502 > EEPROM Version: 3 > > CD1400 #0: 48h > CD1400 #1: 48h > CD1400 #2: 00h > CD1400 #3: 00h > CD1400 #4: 00h > CD1400 #5: 00h > CD1400 #6: 00h > CD1400 #7: 00h > > Changing the base address with CYCTEST (from Y < 1MB to Y > 1MB) doesn't > help. > > Swaping the card with my Intel Pro 100 (which changes the assign IRQ) > doesn't help. > > When I look at the values in memory (using ddb or gdb -k) the entire 16kb > allocated by cy_pci.c at 0xf4d3b000 reports back 0xffffffff. My > understanding of how this card works suggests that while the upper three > bytes of each work should be 0xffffff the lower byte should hold > meaningful data. For example, the base address + 0x0100 should be > 0xffffff48 because 0x48 is the version number of the cd1400 on the card. > > I installed 3.0-RELEASE on this machine as a last ditch effort to get the > card to work. Same results as 2.2.7 > > POSSIBLE CLUE: > Normally I have set the shadow memory for 0xdc000 to be disabled. > However, when I set it to cached, the kernel finds the card. ddb abd gdb > report back reasonable values when peaking at the 16kb allocated by the > card. The card doesn't work worth beans in this mode because all of the > memory is write protected due to shadowing being enabled, but AT LEAST IT > IS SOMETHING! Setting shadowing to enable does not work either. > > -- > Michael Boers > Datacomp > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA03350 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:08:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mercury.webnology.com (mercury.webnology.com [209.155.51.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03340 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Received: from localhost (jooji@localhost) by mercury.webnology.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA13467 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:15:15 -0500 (envelope-from jooji@webnology.com) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:15:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jasper O'Malley" To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, and the source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty free to me. > If it were truly free, Brett could do what he liked with it. In point > of fact, GPL'ed code is no more "free" than proprietary code. How so? Proprietary code costs money. GPL code is by its nature free for anyone to read or incorporate into their own work. If they don't like the caveats that come with the freedom to incorporate, tough nuts. Then they do what Brett is doing, and start from scratch. In the end, though, authors still have a right to determine how their work is used and/or distributed; if they're philosophically opposed to the concept of closed-source proprietary software, they use the GPL. I'm not a particularly big fan of the GPL myself, but I completely understand the motives of those who are. Cheers, Mick The Reverend Jasper P. O'Malley dotdot:jooji@webnology.com Systems Administrator ringring:asktheadmiral Webnology, LLC woowoo:http://www.webnology.com/~jooji To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:17:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA04353 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id UAA08931; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:20:03 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810201920.UAA08931@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: bpf write overwrites link level header? To: beekey@clark.net Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:20:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <362CB750.5ECC@clark.net> from "beekey@clark.net" at Oct 20, 98 12:15:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > it comes out correct). Looking briefly at the code in > /usr/src/sys/net/bpf.c, it appears that bpf may add its own link level > header. > > Anyone have any experience or fixes/workarounds for this? I don't think > that it is a NIC limitation due to some testing under NT. for sure it isn't a NIC limitation since i do specify my own header when doing bridging. cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:24:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05099 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:24:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from yonge.cs.toronto.edu (yonge.cs.toronto.edu [128.100.1.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05091 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:24:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dholland@cs.toronto.edu) Received: from qew.cs.toronto.edu ([128.100.2.15]) by yonge.cs.toronto.edu with SMTP id <86514-3191>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:24:07 -0400 Received: by qew.cs.toronto.edu id <37814-9002>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:23:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD From: David Holland To: jooji@webnology.com (Jasper O'Malley) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:23:52 -0400 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jasper O'Malley" at Oct 20, 98 05:15:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <98Oct20.172357edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". > > I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, and the > source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty free to me. > > > If it were truly free, Brett could do what he liked with it. In point > > of fact, GPL'ed code is no more "free" than proprietary code. > > How so? Proprietary code costs money. GPL code is by its nature free Please, take it to gnu.misc.discuss, or at least -chat. -- - David A. Holland | (please continue to send non-list mail to dholland@cs.utoronto.ca | dholland@hcs.harvard.edu. yes, I moved.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:27:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05417 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:27:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05410 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:26:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01284; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810202131.OAA01284@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Jasper O'Malley" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:15:15 CDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:31:16 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". > > I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, and the > source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty free to me. If it were free, I could do anything I liked with it. As it has restrictions attached to it, it's not free. > > If it were truly free, Brett could do what he liked with it. In point > > of fact, GPL'ed code is no more "free" than proprietary code. > > How so? Proprietary code costs money. GPL code is by its nature free > for anyone to read or incorporate into their own work. If they don't > like the caveats that come with the freedom to incorporate, tough nuts. You've answered your own question. > Then they do what Brett is doing, and start from scratch. In the end, > though, authors still have a right to determine how their work is used > and/or distributed; if they're philosophically opposed to the concept of > closed-source proprietary software, they use the GPL. I'm not a > particularly big fan of the GPL myself, but I completely understand the > motives of those who are. Yes, so do I. I don't respect them much however. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:30:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05989 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:30:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sumatra.americantv.com (sumatra.americantv.com [207.170.17.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05977 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jlemon@americantv.com) Received: from right.PCS (right.PCS [148.105.10.31]) by sumatra.americantv.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13113; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jlemon@localhost) by right.PCS (8.6.13/8.6.4) id QAA06877; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:29:24 -0500 Message-ID: <19981020162923.17640@right.PCS> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:29:23 -0500 From: Jonathan Lemon To: "Jasper O'Malley" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.61.1 In-Reply-To: ; from Jasper O'Malley on Oct 10, 1998 at 04:15:15PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 10, 1998 at 04:15:15PM -0500, Jasper O'Malley wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". > > I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, and the > source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty free to me. Hmm. Please note that this is the _same_ case as with any software that you obtain with an NDA: ``the software costs nothing'', and ``the source is available to anyone who wants it'', with the third line being ``as long as you agree to our terms''. So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. I wouldn't say that software under an NDA is free, so the same for the GPL. -- Jonathan (It depends on how free your definition of `free' is. :-) ) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:33:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06305 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:33:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06297 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:33:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from localhost (kpielorz@localhost) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02217; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:32:47 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:32:47 +0100 (BST) From: Karl Pielorz To: Michael Scott Boers cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199810202101.RAA02050@datacompusa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Michael Scott Boers wrote: > I have previously submitted this question to freebsd-questions and > freebsd-hardware with no response. I hope some kind soul on this may be > able to help me. re: Card found, but no ports found... Hi, this is a complete 'shot-in-the-dark', but our Z series Cyclades card does exactly this if we have the card plugged in, but not the actual ports... I don't know if the Y series works like this (i.e. PCI card + cable to connect a seperate box to the PCI card)... I did warn you it was a shot in the dark... ;-) Regards, Karl Pielorz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 14:43:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:43:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from at.dotat.com (zed.dotat.com [203.38.154.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07216 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hart@at.dotat.com) Received: from at.dotat.com (localhost.dotat.com [127.0.0.1]) by at.dotat.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA07214; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:15:19 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199810202145.HAA07214@at.dotat.com> To: beekey@clark.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bpf write overwrites link level header? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:16:16 -0400." <362CB750.5ECC@clark.net> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:15:19 +0930 From: Leigh Hart Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Beekey, beekey@clark.net wrote: > > I'm currently working on some code that generates raw TCP/UDP packets. > using the write capability of bpf to dump them onto the wire. Based on > tcpdump output from another machine, they appear to be constructed with > proper IP and TCP or UDP headers. > > However, somewhere in the depths, despite my building the Ethernet > header and specifying both MAC addresses, the packets always end up on > the wire with the sending host's correct source MAC address, rather than > the one I specified in the code (yes the source IP is being spoofed and > it comes out correct). Looking briefly at the code in > /usr/src/sys/net/bpf.c, it appears that bpf may add its own link level > header. It isn't bpf.c - read on. > Anyone have any experience or fixes/workarounds for this? I don't think > that it is a NIC limitation due to some testing under NT. I havn't got a recent enough kernel to give you a patch, but in if you look in /sys/net/if_ethersubr.c in the function ether_output() a switch statement determines which protocol family you are trying to transmit a frame from, but when you are writing a raw frame via the bpf interface, the family is set to AF_UNSPEC - and there it copies the ether_dhost from the packet you wish to send into the edst variable, and when the code below the switch then does the final sending of the packet, it inserts your outbound interface's MAC address into the frame src fild and puts the packet into the outgoing queue. You need to change (roughly) this code: case AF_UNSPEC: eh = (struct ether_header *)dst->sa_data; (void)memcpy(edst, eh->ether_dhost, sizeof (edst)); type = eh->ether_type; break; into this case AF_UNSPEC: eh = (struct ether_header *)dst->sa_data; (void)memcpy(edst, eh->ether_dhost, sizeof (edst)); (void)memcpy(esrc, eh->ether_shost, sizeof (esrc)); type = eh->ether_type; break; Don't forget to declare esrc at the beginning of the function, the same type as edst. Then change this, a bit further down (void)memcpy(eh->ether_dhost, edst, sizeof (edst)); (void)memcpy(eh->ether_shost, ac->ac_enaddr, sizeof(eh->ether_shost)); into (void)memcpy(eh->ether_dhost, edst, sizeof (edst)); if(dst->sa_family==AF_UNSPEC) (void)memcpy(eh->ether_shost, esrc, sizeof(esrc)); else (void)memcpy(eh->ether_shost, ac->ac_enaddr, sizeof(eh->ether_shost)); This will only affect AF_UNSPEC frames, which should leave all the other protocols alone :-) Cheers Leigh -- | "By the time they had diminished | Leigh Hart, | | from 50 to 8, the other dwarves | Dotat Communications Pty Ltd | | began to suspect 'Hungry' ..." | GPO Box 487 Adelaide SA 5001 | | -- Gary Larson, "The Far Side" | http://www.dotat.com/hart/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 15:15:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA10256 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:15:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (omega.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.95]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA10248 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:15:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fenner@parc.xerox.com) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <431602(4)>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:15:11 PDT Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177539>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:15:03 -0700 To: beekey@clark.net cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bpf write overwrites link level header? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 98 09:16:16 PDT." <362CB750.5ECC@clark.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:14:54 PDT From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <98Oct20.151503pdt.177539@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG bpf copies the destination ethernet header into an AF_UNSPEC sockaddr that it hands to ether_output(). ether_output() only copies the destination address and ethertype from that sockaddr into the generated ethernet header, thus ether_output() fills in the ethernet source. If you want to change this, you should look at the AF_UNSPEC case in ether_output() in net/if_ethersubr.c . Bill (Doesn't this belong on freebsd-net?) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 15:27:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11089 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:27:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA12578; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:25:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:25:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Jonathan Lemon cc: "Jasper O'Malley" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19981020162923.17640@right.PCS> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > > > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". > > > > I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, and the > > source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty free to me. > > Hmm. Please note that this is the _same_ case as with any software > that you obtain with an NDA: ``the software costs nothing'', and > ``the source is available to anyone who wants it'', with the third > line being ``as long as you agree to our terms''. > > So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. I don't want to know, what do you smoke, but please, explain, what kind of disclosure of the GPL'ed source is prohibited by GPL? > I wouldn't say that software under an NDA is free, so the same for the GPL. GPL is unique in a way that it does not have the name of organizaton that applied it the anywhere in the terms (FSF has the copyright to the license text, but license is applied by authors and contributors of the GPL'ed software) -- once it's applied to software, it requires any kind of "sub-licensing" of derived work to be under exactly the same terms. It definitely is a restriction, however unlike any other restriction, placed by commercial licenses and NDAs it applies equally to everyone when GPL'ed software is concerned (with an exception that the original author may license the same original, unchanged software simultaneously under different license, however even that won't apply to contributions, made by others to GPL'ed versions). I find it disturbing that people don't see freedom unless they can trade it for something else. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 16:44:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18292 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18280 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:44:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07346; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:41:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199810202341.JAA07346@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: from Karl Pielorz at "Oct 20, 98 10:32:47 pm" To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:41:45 +1000 (EST) Cc: mboers@datacompusa.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Karl Pielorz ]--------------------------------------------- | | On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Michael Scott Boers wrote: | | > I have previously submitted this question to freebsd-questions and | > freebsd-hardware with no response. I hope some kind soul on this may be | > able to help me. | | re: Card found, but no ports found... | | Hi, this is a complete 'shot-in-the-dark', but our Z series Cyclades card | does exactly this if we have the card plugged in, but not the actual | ports... I don't know if the Y series works like this (i.e. PCI card + | cable to connect a seperate box to the PCI card)... The (ISA) 16Ye's are almost the same. If there are no ports connected, you don't find the card at all. The 16Ye's have a SCSI-2 cable to a bunch of ports. I don't know about the PCI ones, and I don't know about the 8-way octopus cable ones. The new cyclades driver is required for the SM MkII pods, not for the card AFAIK. There also seems to be weirdness if you have an old serial pod, and a new serial pod on the same card. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 17:38:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA23163 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:38:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cheddar.netmonger.net (cheddar.netmonger.net [209.54.21.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23158 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:38:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@cheddar.netmonger.net) Received: (from chris@localhost) by cheddar.netmonger.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA17495; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:38:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981020203807.E16673@netmonger.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:38:07 -0400 From: Christopher Masto To: Mike Smith Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <19981020102029.A14879@netmonger.net> <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:21:41PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 12:21:41PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". If it were > truly free, Brett could do what he liked with it. In point of fact, > GPL'ed code is no more "free" than proprietary code. I won't argue it further, but I don't think it's so wrong or misleading to use "free" to mean "comes with the freedom to inspect, modify, and redistribute". You're not free to take away that freedom, but you're not free to use BSD code without passing on its COPYRIGHT notice either. They're two different, but valid types of freedom. I think GPL'd code is certainly more "free" than proprietary code: GCC code comes with the freedoms mentioned above, whereas Visual C++ does not. Anyway, this isn't really germane to hackers, although I will reiterate my previous suggestion that effort would be better spent, say, fixing NFS, than to rewrite the build toolchain. -- Christopher Masto Director of Operations S NetMonger Communications chris@netmonger.net info@netmonger.net SSS http://www.netmonger.net \_/ I don't think that the world needs another market dominated by Microsoft. I have enormous respect for the company, but I really get nervous about markets where one vendor has such power. - GEOFFREY MOORE, Marketing Guru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 17:58:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:58:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25057 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:58:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.acs.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA216292; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:58:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: drosih@pop1.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199810202131.OAA01284@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:15:15 CDT." Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:02:24 -0400 To: Mike Smith , "Jasper O'Malley" From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 2:31 PM -0700 10/20/98, Mike Smith wrote: >> On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: >> >> > The hypocrisy comes from misleadingly calling this "free". >> >> I don't think it's misleading at all. The software costs nothing, >> and the source is available to anyone who wants it. Sounds pretty >> free to me. > > If it were free, I could do anything I liked with it. As it has > restrictions attached to it, it's not free. Is there a mailing list for discussing word definitions? Could we take this pointless discussion to that pointless mailing list? How about useless-pendantics@freebsd.org? If we're going to talk about actually WRITING some code, then I can understand why this is in hackers. That is how this thread started, but it has rapidly degenerated into yet-another-religious-war, and it seems to me that such pointless exercises could go elsewhere. I would just as soon say "the software is free but encumbered, and in such a way that I do not like it". While someone might want to pull down a dictionary and argue the meaning of the word "free", I think everyone with one ounce of sense will understand what is meant by that sentance. Instead of arguing the definition of free and pissing people off by throwing around words like "hypocracy", let's just drop it and get back to writing code. It seems to me that the vitriol stirred up by words like "hypocracy" should be reserved for more worthy targets, such as "innovative" microsoft. No matter what definition of "free" you want to use, if microsoft continues to eat our lunch then nothing will be free. --- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@eclipse.its.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or drosih@rpi.edu Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 18:47:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA00643 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA00635 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:47:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co) Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co ([168.176.3.44]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA2449; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:49:51 +0500 Message-ID: <362D3C65.AA245A9D@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:44:05 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Organization: U. Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Bendiksen CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <98Oct19.164437edt.37814-9002@qew.cs.toronto.edu> <4.1.19981019000937.06571220@mail.lariat.org> <3.0.5.32.19981020162222.0091a640@mail.scancall.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FWIW, I saw patches for gcc to use nasm instead of gas somewhere...sorry I don't remember where. Pedro. Marius Bendiksen wrote: > > Have you considered switching to a non-AT&T-syntax compiler, such as NASM? ... > > I would love to see FreeBSD switch to a 'normal' syntax. > > --- > Marius Bendiksen, IT-Trainee, ScanCall AS > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 19:17:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:17:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA03624 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:17:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id TAA01566; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981020191654.E21553@Alameda.net> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:16:54 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FYI: Compaq ProLiant 1850R has a Symbios 876 onboard Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG For all the people who wondered. I will see to install FreeBSD, whenever I have a test machine. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 19:50:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA06482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:50:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from net177138.hcv.com (net177138.hcv.com [209.153.177.138]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06387 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:49:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from thunder ([10.0.0.12]) by net177138.hcv.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA01660 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:44:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981020224656.007b76b0@firebat.wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@firebat.wolfepub.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:46:56 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Network device slowdown? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I was wondering if there are any known problems with the ed driver? I had a Kingston 10/100 PCI ethernet card based on a DEC chipset in my 2.2.6-R box and the performance was terrible (<1Mbs). I switched to a plain ISA 10Mbs ethernet card and the performance shot through the roof. I figured that the driver for DEC based cards was probably not mature yet, so I stuck with the ISA ethernet. The machine has been running for 123 days now and there seems to be a slow down in the ethernet performance again. I tried a 5MB ftp transfer from another machine on the same hub and it took over 2 minutes! That same transfer from another machine takes about 9 seconds. I know I should upgrade to 2.2.7-R but the machine is remote and I have never done an update, I usually just do a complete install from CD or the Net. I can't afford the machine to be off-line, so I'm stuck with 2.2.6-R for a while. Machine specifics: Intel Venus MB, 180MHz P-Pro, 128MB RAM, 2G-IDE, 2940UW, 4G-SCSI, CDROM, Plain ISA ethernet (used to be Kingston 10/100 PCI). Thanks, Matthew Hagerty To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Oct 20 23:29:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21652 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:29:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21647 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:29:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA02591; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810210630.XAA02591@implode.root.com> To: Matthew Hagerty cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network device slowdown? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:46:56 EDT." <3.0.5.32.19981020224656.007b76b0@firebat.wolfepub.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:30:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >I was wondering if there are any known problems with the ed driver? I had Nope...the ed driver has always worked well. I assume that the problem doesn't go away after a reboot? I have noticed that some newer (since the P6) motherboards have really bad ISA performance...perhaps that might have something to do with it. You might want to check out the BIOS configuration and see if there is anything ISA related that you can tweak. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 00:06:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA23508 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:06:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA23503 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:06:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14709; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:05:05 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19981021090505.B10583@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:05:05 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea To: Jonathan Lemon Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD References: <199810201921.MAA00548@dingo.cdrom.com> <19981020162923.17640@right.PCS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19981020162923.17640@right.PCS>; from Jonathan Lemon on Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 04:29:23PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Tue, Oct 20, 1998 at 04:29:23PM -0500, Jonathan Lemon wrote: > So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. The GPL is exactly the opposite. It is a forced disclosure agreement. I think freedom is best defined in negative terms: Freedom is the right to not be able to force your will on others. Regards, -Jeremy -- | If I was not so weak, if I was not so cold, --+-- If I was not so scared of being broken, growing old, | I would be. I would be... frail. | - jars of clay / much afraid / frail To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 00:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA25690 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA25642 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:34:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id GAA09530; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:37:21 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810210537.GAA09530@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Network device slowdown? To: matthew@wolfepub.com (Matthew Hagerty) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:37:20 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981020224656.007b76b0@firebat.wolfepub.com> from "Matthew Hagerty" at Oct 20, 98 10:46:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The machine has been running for 123 days now and there seems to be a slow > down in the ethernet performance again. I tried a 5MB ftp transfer from > another machine on the same hub and it took over 2 minutes! That same > transfer from another machine takes about 9 seconds. I know I should ethernet cards tend to break sometimes, and you might see intermittent failures with long packets (i am assuming you have not switched hardware). Also, slow transfers are typical problems with misconfigured interrupts. a tcpdump from some other machine on the same segment would help tracking the problem. luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 00:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA26693 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:46:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-3.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA26671 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:46:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id AAA08313; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:45:37 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG well, I had a friend that was going to upgrade his 2.2.1 machine to 3.0-R... but we ran into a slight problem, almost all the utils will segfault of bus error out upon running... this includes running newfs from 3.0-R under 2.2.1... so, has anyone tested out 3.0-R on a 386? most of the utils fail out... fsck barfs just after displaying the word free when it's outputing stats, df fails just as it's about to print the first file system... he is willing to do testing to get 3.0-R running on his system if people are willing to help track down the problem... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 683 6908 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 01:49:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA01994 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:49:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA01987 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:48:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id SAA08261; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:47 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma008229; Wed, 21 Oct 98 18:47:30 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07819; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07148; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06623; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: John-Mark Gurney cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:45:37 -0700" Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:27 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >most of the utils fail out... fsck barfs just after displaying the >word free when it's outputing stats, df fails just as it's about to >print the first file system... Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say on boot? Come to think of it, this could be the problem I'm having with my 486SX! I'll poke about later tonight... Stephen. PS I think my real 386 is too far gone to actually test on. It doesn't have a working floppy any more, for example. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 02:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA04253 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:25:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-3.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA04248 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:25:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id CAA09389; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:24:58 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 06:47:27PM +1000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > >most of the utils fail out... fsck barfs just after displaying the > >word free when it's outputing stats, df fails just as it's about to > >print the first file system... > > Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say > on boot? well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... and this is a system that runs systat perfectly fine... so the problem isn't the floating point.. and the 3.0-R newfs fails on his new 2.2.6-R install that we just did tonight... so I KNOW it's not a math emulation problem... > Come to think of it, this could be the problem I'm having with my 486SX! > > I'll poke about later tonight... > > Stephen. > > PS I think my real 386 is too far gone to actually test on. It doesn't > have a working floppy any more, for example. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 683 6908 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 03:01:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA05509 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:01:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA05501 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:01:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Reinier.Bezuidenhout@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id LAA09271 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:50:51 +0200 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1b4) id kwa09268; Wed Oct 21 11:50:50 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16290 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:59:22 +0200 Original: Received: (from bez@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13391 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:02:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bez) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199810211002.MAA13391@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: Reading CMOS date values To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:02:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi ... I'd like to read the CMOS values for the day, hour and minutes. I'd like to get the day of the week, hour and minutes without having to call microtime and then convert the values. Has anyone done this before ?? Thanx Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 04:02:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08172 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:02:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from albert.osu.cz (albert.osu.cz [195.113.106.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08150 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:02:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from belkovic@albert.osu.cz) Received: from localhost (belkovic@localhost) by albert.osu.cz (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02049; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:47:28 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:47:28 +0200 (MET DST) From: Josef Belkovics To: Andrew Kenneth Milton cc: Karl Pielorz , mboers@datacompusa.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199810202341.JAA07346@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > | > I have previously submitted this question to freebsd-questions and > | > freebsd-hardware with no response. I hope some kind soul on this may be > | > able to help me. > | > | re: Card found, but no ports found... > | > | Hi, this is a complete 'shot-in-the-dark', but our Z series Cyclades card > | does exactly this if we have the card plugged in, but not the actual > | ports... I don't know if the Y series works like this (i.e. PCI card + > | cable to connect a seperate box to the PCI card)... > > The (ISA) 16Ye's are almost the same. If there are no ports connected, > you don't find the card at all. The 16Ye's have a SCSI-2 cable to a > bunch of ports. I have 2.2.7 FreeBSD Release, driver from ftp.cyclades.com, Cyclom-Ye/ISA card and one SM Cyclom-8Ye/DB25. Card is found indenpendently of it, if modem(s) is(are) on or off. If is true, that Cyclom-Ye/ISA with SM Cyclom-16Ye/???? or Cyclom-Ye/PCI with anything isn't find, then: 1) Check your rs-232 pinouts on both ends of cable (there is no standard for 232 signals using rj-type connector etc.) 2) Try system which is supported by manufacturer (windows nt, linux, ...). I feel, that atmosphere around the Cyclom-Ye/??? and their SM is strange. I follow the situation around cyclom under FreeBSD 3 years, but so far I don't know, if driver is good or not. Probably hundreds systems runs 4 x Cyclom-Ye/PCI + 8 x SM Cyclom-16Ye/RJ45 + 1/2 ISPorte (compaq microcom 4000), but their owners lost kind soul. If anyone is using Cyclom-Ye/PCI, please be heard. (You will save money of my university - i plan to purchase Cyclom-Ye/PCI and two SM Cyclom-16Ye/RJ45.) > I don't know about the PCI ones, and I don't know about the 8-way > octopus cable ones. > > The new cyclades driver is required for the SM MkII pods, not for > the card AFAIK. There also seems to be weirdness if you have an old > serial pod, and a new serial pod on the same card. What means MkII? What means AFAIK? Josef Belkovics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 04:03:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA08293 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:03:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-3.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA08171 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:02:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id DAA09891; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981021030658.41265@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:06:58 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210955.TAA08445@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199810210955.TAA08445@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 07:55:13PM +1000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > >> On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > >> > >> >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > >> >> Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say > >> >> on boot? > >> > > >> >well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is > >> >that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... > > >> Run 3.0 binaries on a 3.0 system and you'll have a better time of it. > > >that's the WHOLE PROBLEM!!! 3.0 binaries on a 3.0-R kernel from the > >3.0-R bin dist don't run!!! > > Well, I think I'll return to my FP failure theory. It's the only one > consistent with fsck failing after the word "free". The first floating > point operation occurs just after that printf(). > > Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die. > "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It's > a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! > > I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. ok, here are the lines: npx0 on motherboard npx0: 387 emulator these are the lines from a 2.2.6-R system that has problems running the binaries... I can't see how newfs would fail (elf) but systat (a.out) would work perfectly fine under the same kernel if the emulator was broken... oh, and fsck (a.out), newfs (a.out) and df (a.out) also work perfectly fine... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 684 8449 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 04:35:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:35:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zeus.theinternet.com.au (zeus.theinternet.com.au [203.34.176.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09212 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:35:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from akm@zeus.theinternet.com.au) Received: (from akm@localhost) by zeus.theinternet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23748; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:14:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from akm) From: Andrew Kenneth Milton Message-Id: <199810211114.VAA23748@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: from Josef Belkovics at "Oct 21, 98 12:47:28 pm" To: belkovic@albert.osu.cz (Josef Belkovics) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:14:55 +1000 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG +----[ Josef Belkovics ]--------------------------------------------- | > The (ISA) 16Ye's are almost the same. If there are no ports connected, | > you don't find the card at all. The 16Ye's have a SCSI-2 cable to a | > bunch of ports. | | I have 2.2.7 FreeBSD Release, driver from ftp.cyclades.com, Cyclom-Ye/ISA | card and one SM Cyclom-8Ye/DB25. Card is found indenpendently of it, if | modem(s) is(are) on or off. Yes this is true. If the ports are not physically connected to the card via the cable, the card does not appear. | > I don't know about the PCI ones, and I don't know about the 8-way | > octopus cable ones. | > | > The new cyclades driver is required for the SM MkII pods, not for | > the card AFAIK. There also seems to be weirdness if you have an old | > serial pod, and a new serial pod on the same card. | | What means MkII? It refers to the revision of the Cirrus Logic Chip that controls each group of four ports. There are two main version. On the serial pod you will see either SM 16 or SM 16 II. MkII refers to the pods that have the SM16 II marking. | What means AFAIK? "As Far A I Know" -- it's not long now before every sentence will be reduced to an acronym, then they can all just be numbered. Apart from the problems with the old and new pods together I've had no problems with the ISA versions of these cards. I don't see that the PCI driver is all that different from the ISA version. At least you don't have to manipulate dip switches on the PCI version. -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | Milton ACN: 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 |72 Col .Sig PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|Specialist To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 04:39:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA09494 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA09481 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:38:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id UAA10749; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:21:17 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma010745; Wed, 21 Oct 98 20:21:02 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10286; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:21:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA12226; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:21:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA09162; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:20:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199810211020.UAA09162@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: John-Mark Gurney cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210955.TAA08445@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021030658.41265@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19981021030658.41265@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:06:58 -0700" Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:20:59 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: >> Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die. >> "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It's >> a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! >> >> I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. > >ok, here are the lines: >npx0 on motherboard >npx0: 387 emulator > >these are the lines from a 2.2.6-R system that has problems running >the binaries... I assume they are the same when booting 3.0-R? I am still uncomfortable with the idea of debugging a (possibly complex) problem by running 3.0 binaries on a 2.2.x system. It's not designed to work. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. I'd rather you reported the behaviour of 3.0 binaries under a 3.0 kernel and 2.2.6 binaries under 2.2.6 kernel. Call me old fashioned. ;-) >I can't see how newfs would fail (elf) but systat (a.out) >would work perfectly fine under the same kernel if the emulator was >broken... Well, I kinda agree. Bummer. "The signs are clear, but point into the darkness", or some such. >oh, and fsck (a.out), newfs (a.out) and df (a.out) also >work perfectly fine... But, awk (elf) fails? And say, date (elf) works? That would point at FP probs even if, somehow, awk (a.out) still works. And now Robert Nordier thinks FP is involved. I hope he can do better than me, because I think I'm going back to the shallow end of the pool. Good luck! Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:19:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA14977 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14906 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:19:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id TAA10138; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:55:17 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma010135; Wed, 21 Oct 98 19:55:16 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09673; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:55:16 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10930; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:55:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08445; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:55:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199810210955.TAA08445@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: John-Mark Gurney cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:38:48 -0700" Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:55:13 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: >> On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >> >> >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: >> >> Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say >> >> on boot? >> > >> >well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is >> >that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... >> Run 3.0 binaries on a 3.0 system and you'll have a better time of it. >that's the WHOLE PROBLEM!!! 3.0 binaries on a 3.0-R kernel from the >3.0-R bin dist don't run!!! Well, I think I'll return to my FP failure theory. It's the only one consistent with fsck failing after the word "free". The first floating point operation occurs just after that printf(). Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die. "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It's a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:19:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15016 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ren.dtir.qld.gov.au (ns.dtir.qld.gov.au [203.108.138.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA14938 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:19:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au) Received: by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au; id TAA09640; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:33:47 +1000 (EST) Received: from ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au(167.123.8.3) by ren.dtir.qld.gov.au via smap (3.2) id xma009634; Wed, 21 Oct 98 19:33:27 +1000 Received: from atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.8.9]) by ogre.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA09170; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:33:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au [167.123.10.10]) by atlas.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09594; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:33:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (localhost.dtir.qld.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA07949; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:33:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from syssgm@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au) Message-Id: <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> To: John-Mark Gurney cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> In-Reply-To: <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:24:58 -0700" Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:33:24 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: >> Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say >> on boot? > >well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is >that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... and this is a system that >runs systat perfectly fine... so the problem isn't the floating point.. > >and the 3.0-R newfs fails on his new 2.2.6-R install that we just did >tonight... so I KNOW it's not a math emulation problem... Oh, I missed the "on 2.2.1" bit. Answer is simple: don't do that. The only scenario I can think of is that you've built 3.0 from source under 2.2.x and then run the 3.0 progs from the obj directories. Again, don't do that. Run 3.0 binaries on a 3.0 system and you'll have a better time of it. Stephen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:20:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA15258 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:20:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jau.tmt.tele.fi (jau.tmt.tele.fi [192.130.25.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15200 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:20:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jau@jau.tmt.tele.fi) Received: (from jau@localhost) by jau.tmt.tele.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1/JAU-2.2) id QAA15509 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:19:29 +0300 (EET DST) From: "Jukka A. Ukkonen" Message-Id: <199810211319.QAA15509@jau.tmt.tele.fi> Subject: question about getsid() To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:19:28 +0300 (EET DST) Latin-Date: Miercuri XXI Octombrie a.d. MCMXCVIII Organization: Internet Services R&D / Sonera Ltd. Finland Phone: +358-2040-4025 (office) / +358-400-606671 (mobile) Content-Conversion: prohibited X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25+pgp] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Howdy, everybody! When looking at the 3.0 getsid() code in kern_prot.c I became a little hesitant about whether the following code will always work... int getsid(p, uap) struct proc *p; struct getsid_args *uap; { if (uap->pid == 0) goto found; if ((p == pfind(uap->pid)) == 0) return ESRCH; found: p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pgrp->pg_session->s_leader->p_pid; return 0; } What will happen if the process leader has already died? Will the original session leader's process struct still be around available for reference or will the code fail? My own implementation of the same thing added a new field `s_sid' to the session struct, because I suspected problems doing it the way the current 3.0 code does. This new field is in my version initialized during setsid() using the PID of the session leader, but the code does not assume the process struct for the session leader being available later, because `s_sid' content will be returned by getsid(). Maybe my version has been playing extra safe in vain, but at least that way there is no way to make the kernel panic just by calling getsid(). Now I would like to know whether it had been quite as safe to write my own version the way it is now done in 3.0 or is 3.0 relying on something which is not really guaranteed. Any comments? Cheers, // jau .--- ..- -.- -.- .- .- .-.-.- ..- -.- -.- --- -. . -. / Jukka A. Ukkonen, Internet Services R&D / Sonera Ltd. /__ M.Sc. (sw-eng & cs) (Phone) +358-2040-4025 / Internet: Jukka.Ukkonen@sonera.fi (Fax) +358-2040-64724 / Internet: jau@iki.fi (Mobile) +358-400-606671 v Internet: ukkonen@nic.funet.fi (Home&Fax) +358-9-6215280 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA16022 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:26:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA15900; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.5) id GAA11080; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981021060138.A10093@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:01:38 -0700 From: Robert Nordier To: Stephen McKay , John-Mark Gurney Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210955.TAA08445@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021030658.41265@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810211020.UAA09162@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810211020.UAA09162@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 08:20:59PM +1000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 08:20:59PM +1000, Stephen McKay wrote: > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > >> Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die. > >> "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It's > >> a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! > >> > >> I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. > > > >ok, here are the lines: > >npx0 on motherboard > >npx0: 387 emulator > > > >these are the lines from a 2.2.6-R system that has problems running > >the binaries... > > I assume they are the same when booting 3.0-R? I am still uncomfortable > with the idea of debugging a (possibly complex) problem by running 3.0 > binaries on a 2.2.x system. It's not designed to work. Maybe it does. > Maybe it doesn't. I'd rather you reported the behaviour of 3.0 binaries > under a 3.0 kernel and 2.2.6 binaries under 2.2.6 kernel. Call me > old fashioned. ;-) > > >I can't see how newfs would fail (elf) but systat (a.out) > >would work perfectly fine under the same kernel if the emulator was > >broken... Because not just the object format is different: different toolchain as well. > > Well, I kinda agree. Bummer. "The signs are clear, but point into the > darkness", or some such. > > >oh, and fsck (a.out), newfs (a.out) and df (a.out) also > >work perfectly fine... > > But, awk (elf) fails? And say, date (elf) works? That would point at FP > probs even if, somehow, awk (a.out) still works. > > And now Robert Nordier thinks FP is involved. I hope he can do better > than me, because I think I'm going back to the shallow end of the pool. > The problem is that the ELF assembler is emitting an operand-size prefix for the i387 fnstsw instruction: 0x66 0xdf 0xe0 rather than just 0xdf 0xe0 (as was the case for a.out). The default FP emulator isn't expecting operand-size prefixes, and adjusts the eip register by 2 instead of 3. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:33:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17179 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hydrogen.fircrest.net (metriclient-3.uoregon.edu [128.223.172.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17100 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:33:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.fircrest.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) id CAA09558; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:38:48 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Stephen McKay Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 References: <19981021004537.00515@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210847.SAA06623@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199810210933.TAA07949@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au>; from Stephen McKay on Wed, Oct 21, 1998 at 07:33:24PM +1000 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > >> Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say > >> on boot? > > > >well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is > >that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... and this is a system that > >runs systat perfectly fine... so the problem isn't the floating point.. > > > >and the 3.0-R newfs fails on his new 2.2.6-R install that we just did > >tonight... so I KNOW it's not a math emulation problem... > > Oh, I missed the "on 2.2.1" bit. Answer is simple: don't do that. > > The only scenario I can think of is that you've built 3.0 from source under > 2.2.x and then run the 3.0 progs from the obj directories. Again, don't > do that. > > Run 3.0 binaries on a 3.0 system and you'll have a better time of it. that's the WHOLE PROBLEM!!! 3.0 binaries on a 3.0-R kernel from the 3.0-R bin dist don't run!!! I'll quote from another message that I sent about this problem: no, this isn't an upgrade... what we were doing is that he was going to switch to a new hard drive, but he has files on the old one... so we did a manual install of 3.0-R from 2.2.1-R... once we had everything up and running we built a kernel on my 3.0-R system and booted the system... it failed when it tried to fsck the system... it would fail to newfs and df would also fail... I then tried to run the newfs binary under 2.2.1-R and it would start exectution perfectly fine, but would crash at the same point that it would under 3.0-R... yes, I know it seems strange to run 3.0-R binaries on such an old release, but FreeBSD has supported ELF binaries for the longest time, and the newfs binary is a staticly linked binary, so it requires NO libraries from the 3.0-R world to run... so it would run perfectly fine.. I will be running gdb on the binaries soon to see what the problem is, but it's a bit involved as he needs to install the elf loader on his machine under 2.2.6-R for it to work... basicly what happened is that when we booted this nice shiny new 3.0-R system, fsck bombed out on a sig10... and then pretty much everything else would bomb out too... I didn't try many things... but ls and echo did work... but they aren't really complex programs... if someone wants an account on the machine in question to debug the problem, my friend is willing to create one... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 541 683 6908 Cu Networking P.O. Box 5693, 97405 Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD Don't trust anyone you don't have the source for To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:37:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17948 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:37:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za [146.64.24.58]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17933 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhay@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za) Received: (from jhay@localhost) by zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA07535; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:36:51 +0200 (SAT) From: John Hay Message-Id: <199810211336.PAA07535@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 In-Reply-To: <199810211020.UAA09162@nymph.dtir.qld.gov.au> from Stephen McKay at "Oct 21, 98 08:20:59 pm" To: syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:36:51 +0200 (SAT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >> Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die. > >> "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It's > >> a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! > >> > >> I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. > > > >ok, here are the lines: > >npx0 on motherboard > >npx0: 387 emulator Ok, here is what I have found so far. I used a 3.0 system with a new kernel with Peter Wemm's commits to i386/math_emulate.c. Then I recompiled libc.a with vfprintf.c with debugging on and then also compiled fsck with debugging on and got it to dump core on a 386 machine. Here is some of gdb's output. What is interesting is that the coredump address (0x806859f) falls between two assembler instructions... or did disassem get it wrong? Or am I confused? Is it possible that the emulator in the kernel restarts the program at the wrong place? John -- John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za ----------------- Core was generated by `fsck'. Program terminated with signal 10, Bus error. #0 0x806859f in cvt (value=5.2716105037754986, ndigits=1, flags=256, sign=0xefbfd9fb "", decpt=0xefbfd9f4, ch=102, length=0xefbfd9f0) at /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/stdio/vfprintf.c:1219 1219 if (value < 0) { (gdb) bt #0 0x806859f in cvt (value=5.2716105037754986, ndigits=1, flags=256, sign=0xefbfd9fb "", decpt=0xefbfd9f4, ch=102, length=0xefbfd9f0) at /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/stdio/vfprintf.c:1219 #1 0x8066a5e in vfprintf (fp=0x80765bc, fmt0=0x80712c7 "(%d frags, %d blocks, %.1f%% fragmentation)\n", ap=0xefbfdc00 "\t\024\a\b\e\021") at /usr/src/lib/libc/../libc/stdio/vfprintf.c:608 #2 0x805e488 in printf () #3 0x804acef in checkfilesys (filesys=0x8076714 "/dev/rwd0s1e", mntpt=0x0, auxdata=0, child=0) at main.c:271 #4 0x804a9e1 in main (argc=2, argv=0xefbfdde0) at main.c:136 #5 0x80480c9 in _start () (gdb) list 1214 */ 1215 if (ch == 'e' || ch == 'E') 1216 ndigits++; 1217 mode = 2; /* ndigits significant digits */ 1218 } 1219 if (value < 0) { 1220 value = -value; 1221 *sign = '-'; 1222 } else 1223 *sign = '\000'; (gdb) disassem Dump of assembler code for function cvt: 0x8068568 : pushl %ebp 0x8068569 : movl %esp,%ebp 0x806856b : subl $0x8,%esp 0x806856e : pushl %edi 0x806856f : pushl %esi 0x8068570 : pushl %ebx 0x8068571 : movl 0x18(%ebp),%ecx 0x8068574 : movl 0x20(%ebp),%esi 0x8068577 : cmpl $0x66,%esi 0x806857a : jne 0x8068584 0x806857c : movl $0x3,%edx 0x8068581 : jmp 0x8068596 0x8068583 : nop 0x8068584 : cmpl $0x65,%esi 0x8068587 : je 0x806858e 0x8068589 : cmpl $0x45,%esi 0x806858c : jne 0x8068591 0x806858e : incl 0x10(%ebp) 0x8068591 : movl $0x2,%edx 0x8068596 : fldz 0x8068598 : fcompl 0x8(%ebp) 0x806859b : fnstsw 0x806859e : andb $0x45,%ah 0x80685a1 : jne 0x80685b0 0x80685a3 : fldl 0x8(%ebp) 0x80685a6 : fchs 0x80685a8 : fstpl 0x8(%ebp) 0x80685ab : movb $0x2d,(%ecx) 0x80685ae : jmp 0x80685b3 0x80685b0 : movb $0x0,(%ecx) 0x80685b3 : leal 0xfffffff8(%ebp),%eax 0x80685b6 : pushl %eax 0x80685b7 : leal 0xfffffffc(%ebp),%eax 0x80685ba : pushl %eax 0x80685bb : pushl 0x1c(%ebp) 0x80685be : pushl 0x10(%ebp) ... ----------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:41:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18434 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:41:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA18418 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:40:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Reinier.Bezuidenhout@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id MAA09941 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:40:00 +0200 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1b4) id kwa09939; Wed Oct 21 12:39:44 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16684 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:48:17 +0200 Original: Received: (from bez@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA13488; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:51:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from bez) From: Reinier Bezuidenhout Message-Id: <199810211051.MAA13488@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: Re: Reading CMOS date values In-Reply-To: <199810211002.MAA13391@borg.kryptokom.de> from Reinier Bezuidenhout at "Oct 21, 1998 12: 2:37 pm" To: Reinier.Bezuidenhout@KryptoKom.DE@Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (Reinier Bezuidenhout) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:51:33 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi ... > > I'd like to read the CMOS values for the day, hour and minutes. > > I'd like to get the day of the week, hour and minutes without > having to call microtime and then convert the values. > > Has anyone done this before ?? Just have to add that I want to do this in the kernel :) Reinier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 06:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA17260 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:33:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from albert.osu.cz (albert.osu.cz [195.113.106.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA17222 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:33:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from belkovic@albert.osu.cz) Received: from localhost (belkovic@localhost) by albert.osu.cz (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA02335; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:41:02 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:41:02 +0200 (MET DST) From: Josef Belkovics To: Andrew Kenneth Milton cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Problem with Cyclades Cyclom-8YeP on 2.2.7 and 3.0-RELEASE In-Reply-To: <199810211114.VAA23748@zeus.theinternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > | > The (ISA) 16Ye's are almost the same. If there are no ports connected, > | > you don't find the card at all. The 16Ye's have a SCSI-2 cable to a > | > bunch of ports. > | > | I have 2.2.7 FreeBSD Release, driver from ftp.cyclades.com, Cyclom-Ye/ISA > | card and one SM Cyclom-8Ye/DB25. Card is found indenpendently of it, if > | modem(s) is(are) on or off. > > Yes this is true. If the ports are not physically connected to the > card via the cable, the card does not appear. I agree. > | > I don't know about the PCI ones, and I don't know about the 8-way > | > octopus cable ones. > | > > | > The new cyclades driver is required for the SM MkII pods, not for > | > the card AFAIK. There also seems to be weirdness if you have an old > | > serial pod, and a new serial pod on the same card. > | > | What means MkII? > > It refers to the revision of the Cirrus Logic Chip that controls > each group of four ports. There are two main version. On the serial > pod you will see either SM 16 or SM 16 II. MkII refers to the pods > that have the SM16 II marking. > > Apart from the problems with the old and new pods together I've > had no problems with the ISA versions of these cards. I don't see > that the PCI driver is all that different from the ISA version. > > At least you don't have to manipulate dip switches on the PCI version. As I see, better is don't manipulate with the PCI version at all. Thanks. Josef Belkovics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:03:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA21365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:03:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA21313 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:03:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id IAA09732; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:44:44 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Handling page faults in user space ? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:44:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, i was wondering how to handle page faults/segment violations in user space. Looking at mmap, signal and friends it looks like it is almost possible. E.g. take the following program segment: int *p = 0xdeadbeef ; sig_t handle_sigsegv(int i) { fprintf(stderr, "got sigsegv\n"); mmap(p, 0x1000, PROT_READ, MAP_ANON, -1, 0); } main() { int a; signal(SIGSEGV, handle_sigsegv); a = *p ; /* this results in a SIGSEGV being posted */ fprintf(stderr, "ahhh....\n"); } causes first a fault and then the faulting instruction is restarted and produces the right output. What is missing is how to know, in the signal handler, the fault virtual address and maybe IP associated to the faulting instruction. Ideas anyone ? thanks luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA22454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA22418 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:12:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rminnich@Sarnoff.COM) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA06552; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:11:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:11:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ron G. Minnich" X-Sender: rminnich@terra To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Handling page faults in user space ? In-Reply-To: <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG here's how I do it in zounds: #ifdef bsd void zcfault (int sig, int code, struct sigcontext *scp, void *addr) #endif #ifdef linux void zcfault (int sig, mysigcontext scp) #endif { ZCINFO *zc; off_t off; size_t size = PAGESIZE; #ifdef linux void *addr = (void *) scp.cr2; #endif DEBUG(fprintf(stderr, "(%s):ZCFAULT: addr. 0x%x\n", stamp(), (unsigned int) addr);); /* first find the zc for the fault */ zc = zcfind(addr); /* round the address to page bounadry */ if (! zc) { printf("(%s):zcfault: No handler for address 0x%x\n", stamp(), (unsigned int) addr); abort(); } /* round the address to page bounadry */ addr = (void *) trunc_page(addr); /* now compute offset. size is simply pagesize */ off = ((off_t) addr); off -= ((off_t) zc->v); DEBUG(fprintf(stderr, "(%s):ZCFAULT: call zcread now\n", stamp());); if ((zc->readfd >= 0) && (zc->writefd >= 0)) { #ifdef PRESENTBITS /* fill the page, given the zc, and using the presence bits */ if (zc->use_present_bits) { zcfillregion(zc, off, size); } else #endif zcread(zc, off, size); } else if (zc->multifd >= 0) /* we are a multicast client. Just create the memory */ zcvalidate(zc, off, size); else { fprintf(stderr, "(%s):ZCFAULT: no tcp or multicast fd: can not handle fault\n", stamp()); exit(1); } DEBUG(fprintf(stderr, "(%s):ZCFAULT: done zcread\n", stamp());); #ifdef linux signal(SIGBUS, zcfault); signal(SIGSEGV, zcfault); #endif } Note also that we have to catch sigbus and sigsegv; bsd has traditionally gotten bus and segv backwards. Openbsd has fixed this, and I've lost track of whether freebsd has. ron Ron Minnich |"Using Windows NT, which is known to have some rminnich@sarnoff.com | failure modes, on a warship is similar to hoping (609)-734-3120 | that luck will be in our favor"- A. Digiorgio ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:27:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24365 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:27:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from implode.root.com (implode.root.com [198.145.90.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24360 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@implode.root.com) Received: from implode.root.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by implode.root.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02579; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810211427.HAA02579@implode.root.com> To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Handling page faults in user space ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:44:43 BST." <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:27:38 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >causes first a fault and then the faulting instruction is restarted and >produces the right output. What is missing is how to know, in the >signal handler, the fault virtual address and maybe IP associated to >the faulting instruction. > >Ideas anyone ? Yes, that is supported. The fault VA is passed back via the sigcontext struct, sc_err. A pointer to the sigcontext is passed into the signal handler as the third arg. See the sigaction(2) man page. -DG David Greenman Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:44:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26443 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:44:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26418 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/Spinner) with ESMTP id WAA16947; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:42:44 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199810211442.WAA16947@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Hay cc: syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au (Stephen McKay), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 21 Oct 1998 15:36:51 +0200." <199810211336.PAA07535@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:42:44 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John Hay wrote: > > >> Try "awk", for example. It uses floating point, and I think it will die . > > >> "df" uses double. "newfs" uses float. "ls" doesn't, and it works. It' s > > >> a floating point problem, or I'll eat my copy of the Pointy Hat! > > >> > > >> I still think the "npx" lines from boot are relevant. > > > > > >ok, here are the lines: > > >npx0 on motherboard > > >npx0: 387 emulator > > Ok, here is what I have found so far. I used a 3.0 system with a new > kernel with Peter Wemm's commits to i386/math_emulate.c. Then I > recompiled libc.a with vfprintf.c with debugging on and then also > compiled fsck with debugging on and got it to dump core on a 386 > machine. Here is some of gdb's output. What is interesting is that > the coredump address (0x806859f) falls between two assembler > instructions... or did disassem get it wrong? Or am I confused? > Is it possible that the emulator in the kernel restarts the program > at the wrong place? > > John > -- > John Hay -- John.Hay@mikom.csir.co.za As I understand it (found by Robert Nordier), the 3.0 gcc and/or gas generate some size override prefixes to floating point assembler instructions that break the math emulator. The math_emulate code hasn't significantly changed in ages. The code that trips it up in 3.0 is also going to trip up as far back as probably 2.0 itself. math_emulate.c hasn't been freshly broken in 3.0. It's always been broken, and 3.0 happens to generate some peculiar code that trips it up easily. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:48:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA26956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:48:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (spinner.netplex.com.au [202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA26947 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:48:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/Spinner) with ESMTP id WAA16977; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:47:13 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199810211447.WAA16977@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John-Mark Gurney cc: Stephen McKay , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:38:48 MST." <19981021023848.61590@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:47:13 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > >Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > > >> Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say > > >> on boot? > > > > > >well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is > > >that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... and this is a system that > > >runs systat perfectly fine... so the problem isn't the floating point.. > > > > > >and the 3.0-R newfs fails on his new 2.2.6-R install that we just did > > >tonight... so I KNOW it's not a math emulation problem... > > > > Oh, I missed the "on 2.2.1" bit. Answer is simple: don't do that. > > > > The only scenario I can think of is that you've built 3.0 from source under > > 2.2.x and then run the 3.0 progs from the obj directories. Again, don't > > do that. > > > > Run 3.0 binaries on a 3.0 system and you'll have a better time of it. > > that's the WHOLE PROBLEM!!! 3.0 binaries on a 3.0-R kernel from the > 3.0-R bin dist don't run!!! > > I'll quote from another message that I sent about this problem: > no, this isn't an upgrade... what we were doing is that he was going to > switch to a new hard drive, but he has files on the old one... so we did > a manual install of 3.0-R from 2.2.1-R... once we had everything up and > running we built a kernel on my 3.0-R system and booted the system... it > failed when it tried to fsck the system... it would fail to newfs and df > would also fail... > > I then tried to run the newfs binary under 2.2.1-R and it would start > exectution perfectly fine, but would crash at the same point that it would > under 3.0-R... Yes, it seems the 3.0 ELF gas encodes some size override prefixes on some instructions that causes math_emulate.c (all the way back to the dark ages) to fall over. It's the new binaries that are tripping up the standard emulator. Damn, I wish the 3.0 floppies had a kld kernel. :-) We could have just told people to load the other emulator which worked (apart from the typo that prevented loading - but this would have been found in better testing). > yes, I know it seems strange to run 3.0-R binaries on such an old release, > but FreeBSD has supported ELF binaries for the longest time, and the newfs > binary is a staticly linked binary, so it requires NO libraries from the > 3.0-R world to run... so it would run perfectly fine.. 2.2.1 should run 3.0 ELF binaries pretty well. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:52:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA27422 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id NAA10177; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:55:03 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810211255.NAA10177@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Handling page faults in user space ? To: dg@root.com Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:55:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810211427.HAA02579@implode.root.com> from "David Greenman" at Oct 21, 98 07:27:19 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >signal handler, the fault virtual address and maybe IP associated to > >the faulting instruction. > > > >Ideas anyone ? > > Yes, that is supported. The fault VA is passed back via the sigcontext > struct, sc_err. A pointer to the sigcontext is passed into the signal > handler as the third arg. See the sigaction(2) man page. Thanks a lot, that was it! However the sigaction manpage (at least on 2.2.6) seems incomplete. It only specifies three args for the handler, whereas from looking at macine/frame.h i see "struct sigframe" with a number of arguments, and i found the fourth arg to the signal handler to be exactly the fault address... cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 07:57:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA27983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:57:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27978 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:57:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10975; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:55:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810211455.HAA10975@austin.polstra.com> To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it Subject: Re: Handling page faults in user space ? In-Reply-To: <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> References: <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:55:22 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > i was wondering how to handle page faults/segment violations in user > space. Looking at mmap, signal and friends it looks like it is almost > possible. Others have answered your question about how to do it. I'll just confirm that it really does work. The Modula-3 runtime system relies on it to support the incremental garbage collector. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 08:18:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA29684 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:18:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from firebat.wolfepub.com (firebat.wolfepub.com [206.250.193.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA29677 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:17:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from matthew@wolfepub.com) Received: from ricecake (gr-tnts1-13-101.triton.net [209.172.13.101]) by firebat.wolfepub.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA01461 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19981021105652.009845e0@wolfepub.com> X-Sender: matthew@wolfepub.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:25:46 -0400 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Matthew Hagerty Subject: Re: Network device slowdown? In-Reply-To: <199810210630.XAA02591@implode.root.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Actually I did reboot today and it did not help. There is one strange thing though, I put the same 5MB file I FTPed from another machine on my server and had someone on the same hub download the file via HTTP and it goes in about 9 seconds! Why would the FTP protocol be so slow, but the HTTP (Apache-1.2.6) is up there where it should be? I have also noticed considerable slow down with other services like my SSHD (character echoes take forever) but I can surf my web pages with no problems. The machine should not be overloaded. Here is a netstat -m: 75 mbufs in use: 15 mbufs allocated to data 45 mbufs allocated to packet headers 11 mbufs allocated to protocol control blocks 4 mbufs allocated to socket names and addresses 14/144 mbuf clusters in use 297 Kbytes allocated to network (12% in use) 0 requests for memory denied 0 requests for memory delayed 0 calls to protocol drain routines However, this machines purpose in life is to be a web server, so I start the daemon with this script: #!/bin/sh ulimit -u unlimited ulimit -m unlimited ulimit -n unlimited ulimit -s unlimited /usr/site/bin/httpd -f /usr/site/conf/httpd.conf But I do need to FTP and SSHD to the server and I don't see why protocols other than HTTP would be so slow. Thanks, Matthew Hagerty matthew@wolfepub.com At 11:30 PM 10/20/98 -0700, David Greenman wrote: >>I was wondering if there are any known problems with the ed driver? I had > > Nope...the ed driver has always worked well. I assume that the problem >doesn't go away after a reboot? I have noticed that some newer (since the >P6) motherboards have really bad ISA performance...perhaps that might have >something to do with it. You might want to check out the BIOS configuration >and see if there is anything ISA related that you can tweak. > >-DG > >David Greenman >Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 08:24:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA00514 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay01.iafrica.com (relay01.iafrica.com [196.7.0.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00502 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:24:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rnordier@iafrica.com) Received: from 196-31-98-1.iafrica.com ([196.31.98.1] helo=ceia.nordier.com) by relay01.iafrica.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG id 0zVxHn-0003Kf-00; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:22:44 +0200 Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by ceia.nordier.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA25430; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:38:39 +0200 (SAT) From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199810210938.LAA25430@ceia.nordier.com> Subject: Re: 3.0-R on a amd386dx/40 In-Reply-To: <19981021022458.12727@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> from John-Mark Gurney at "Oct 21, 98 02:24:58 am" To: gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:38:34 +0200 (SAT) Cc: syssgm@dtir.qld.gov.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Stephen McKay scribbled this message on Oct 21: > > On Wednesday, 21st October 1998, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > > > >most of the utils fail out... fsck barfs just after displaying the > > >word free when it's outputing stats, df fails just as it's about to > > >print the first file system... > > > > Sounds like the FP emulator isn't working. What do the npx lines say > > on boot? > > well, it doesn't matter... as I told another person, the problem is > that the binaries FAIL on a 2.2.1-R system... and this is a system that > runs systat perfectly fine... so the problem isn't the floating point.. > > and the 3.0-R newfs fails on his new 2.2.6-R install that we just did > tonight... so I KNOW it's not a math emulation problem... Definitely FP-related. I happen to have an amd386dx/40 here, and just took a quick look. I may do some digging myself, if nothing comes up in the next few hours. -- Robert Nordier To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 08:33:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA01333 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (ns1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01325 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:33:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thomma@BayNetworks.COM) Received: from mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (h016b.s86b1.BayNetworks.COM [134.177.1.107] (may be forged)) by smtp-gw.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/BNET-98/09/30-E) with ESMTP id IAA14532; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com [134.177.110.46]) by mailhost.BayNetworks.COM (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA11986; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrera.engwest (carrera.engwest.baynetworks.com) by fedex.engwest.baynetworks.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Received: from localhost by carrera.engwest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA23982; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:30:00 -0700 To: matthew@wolfepub.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Network device slowdown? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:46:56 -0400" <3.0.5.32.19981020224656.007b76b0@firebat.wolfepub.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19981020224656.007b76b0@firebat.wolfepub.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.92 on Emacs 19.28 / Mule 2.3 (SUETSUMUHANA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19981021083000X.thomma@baynetworks.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:30:00 -0700 From: Tamiji Homma X-Dispatcher: imput version 971024 Lines: 65 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was wondering if there are any known problems with the ed driver? I had > a Kingston 10/100 PCI ethernet card based on a DEC chipset in my 2.2.6-R > box and the performance was terrible (<1Mbs). I switched to a plain ISA > 10Mbs ethernet card and the performance shot through the roof. I figured > that the driver for DEC based cards was probably not mature yet, so I stuck > with the ISA ethernet. Coincidentally, I was wondering(how many more?) if there is a way to improve(or fix) de0 (sorry not ed driver) performance. The problem that I have is: Machine A: Machine B: FIC PA-2007 K6/233 PR-440FX P6/200-512KBx2 SMP 64MB EDO 128MB EDO ECC -current(10/17/98) -current(10/17/98) Quantum Fireball 6.4G IBM 9ZX (9G) Maxtor 2880 11.5G IBM 9ES (4.3G) IDE DMA is on. I used the following command to get timing (I know it is not a good one but...) # rsh machineA dd if=/dev/zero bs=64k count=1000 >/dev/null (on machine B) # rsh machineA dd if=/dev/zero bs=64k count=1000 >/usr/tmp/junk (on machine B) # rsh machineB dd if=/dev/zero bs=64k count=1000 >/dev/null (on machine A) # rsh machineB dd if=/dev/zero bs=64k count=1000 >/usr/tmp/junk (on machine A) A ---> B means that a large amount of TCP transfer from machine A to B. Machine A and machine B are connected by cross-over cable for this experiement. 100Mbps/Full-duplex: Machine A Machine B de0 ----> fxp0 (over 9MByte/sec with disk write) de0 <---- fxp0 (somewhere 60KB/sec with disk write) fxp0 ----> fxp0 (11MB/sec without disk write) fxp0 ----> fxp0 (9MB/sec with disk write) fxp0 <---- fxp0 (9MB/sec without disk write) de0 ----> de0 (over 7MB/sec without disk write) 10Mbps/Full-duplex: de0 <---> de0 (1.06MB with disk write) netstat -i shows that de0 on FIC-2007 is having 2 to 3 ierrors per second when de0 receives a large amount of data with 100Mbps. That explains terrible performance 60KB/sec. fxp0 sees no errors on both machines as well as de0 on PR-440FX has no errors. When I switch to 10Mbps, there is no error what so ever on both de0 and fxp0 on both machines. The experiment above is not really systematic yet but one thing I can tell is that de0 on FIC PA-2007 (VP2/97 chipset) does not handle 100Mbps input stream very well but 440FX does it well with both fxp0 and de0. I tried tweaking PCI timing to be all aggressive on FIC PA-2007 but it doesn't show any visible effect. Well, it is very hard to know what is really changed in PCI bus timing parameters from BIOS menu :( Just data point... Well, next step is to read de driver code to see if anything I can do with it. Tammy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 10:33:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA14228 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:33:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA14215 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA00804; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:37:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810211737.KAA00804@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Reinier Bezuidenhout cc: Reinier.Bezuidenhout%KryptoKom.DE@Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (Reinier Bezuidenhout), freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Reading CMOS date values In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:51:33 +0200." <199810211051.MAA13488@borg.kryptokom.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:37:37 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Hi ... > > > > I'd like to read the CMOS values for the day, hour and minutes. > > > > I'd like to get the day of the week, hour and minutes without > > having to call microtime and then convert the values. > > > > Has anyone done this before ?? > > Just have to add that I want to do this in the kernel :) You almost certainly *don't* want to do this in the kernel. If you want to do time conversions, do them in userspace where you have enough information at hand to do them correctly. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 13:04:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03187 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03182 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:04:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19077 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:03:44 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Subject: CVS version updated Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There is a 1.10 release of CVS available, although it apparently has a small bug related to CVSROOT with a trailing slash. We may want to consider an upgrade at some point in the near future however because according to cyclic there are known Y2K bugs in cvs versions < 1.9.27. http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/dev-known.html for more info. From what I can see the cvs sources are already contrib'ified, so it should be an easy upgrade, yes? Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 13:23:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05970 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:23:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (sri-gw.MT.net [206.127.105.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05960 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:23:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA13597; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:23:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA27384; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:23:19 -0600 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:23:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199810212023.OAA27384@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Studded Cc: The Subject: Re: CVS version updated In-Reply-To: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> References: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There is a 1.10 release of CVS available, although it apparently has a > small bug related to CVSROOT with a trailing slash. We may want to > consider an upgrade at some point in the near future however because > according to cyclic there are known Y2K bugs in cvs versions < 1.9.27. > http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/dev-known.html for more info. My spin is that we should wait awhile before doing this. There are *LOTS* of changes w/regard to CVS/Root Handling in the 1.10 branch, and I'd like to see them shaken out a while longer. I'm using CVS 1.9.28 with very good luck at work if the Y2K stuff is really bothering someone. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 13:43:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08294 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:43:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08287 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:43:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA19872; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362E4747.85859BAA@gorean.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:42:47 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: The Subject: Re: CVS version updated References: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> <199810212023.OAA27384@mt.sri.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nate Williams wrote: > > > There is a 1.10 release of CVS available, although it apparently has a > > small bug related to CVSROOT with a trailing slash. We may want to > > consider an upgrade at some point in the near future however because > > according to cyclic there are known Y2K bugs in cvs versions < 1.9.27. > > http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/dev-known.html for more info. > > My spin is that we should wait awhile before doing this. There are > *LOTS* of changes w/regard to CVS/Root Handling in the 1.10 branch, and > I'd like to see them shaken out a while longer. No sweat at all. Sounds like you're more in tune with it than I am. I was doing one of my periodic "poking around" sessions today and thought I'd bring it up. > I'm using CVS 1.9.28 with very good luck at work if the Y2K stuff is > really bothering someone. The projects position as represented on our web page is that we fix Y2K problems as we find them, so my vote would be to use the most recent stable CVS version that fixes the Y2K problems. Thanks, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 14:06:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA11058 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:06:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA11046 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26784; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:05:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Studded cc: Nate Williams , The Subject: Re: CVS version updated In-Reply-To: <362E4747.85859BAA@gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Studded wrote: > Nate Williams wrote: > > > > > There is a 1.10 release of CVS available, although it apparently has a > > > small bug related to CVSROOT with a trailing slash. We may want to > > > consider an upgrade at some point in the near future however because > > > according to cyclic there are known Y2K bugs in cvs versions < 1.9.27. > > > http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/dev-known.html for more info. > > > > My spin is that we should wait awhile before doing this. There are > > *LOTS* of changes w/regard to CVS/Root Handling in the 1.10 branch, and > > I'd like to see them shaken out a while longer. > > No sweat at all. Sounds like you're more in tune with it than I am. I > was doing one of my periodic "poking around" sessions today and thought > I'd bring it up. > > > I'm using CVS 1.9.28 with very good luck at work if the Y2K stuff is > > really bothering someone. > > The projects position as represented on our web page is that we fix Y2K > problems as we find them, so my vote would be to use the most recent > stable CVS version that fixes the Y2K problems. Several tools, like the system build tools (gcc, linker, etc) and most obviously cvs, are so important to keep stable, that the first, second, and 99th consideration is stability. Upgrades are, comparatively speaking, a minor consideration. That's not to say your comment is worthless, it's not, and it's good to be reminded, especially about the status of those selfsame important tools. On top of that, it's slow pressure of this sort that eventually does see things upgraded. You learn to have a knee-jerk negative reaction to folks who want to always go with the latest bugs, tho. I think the next big step past a elf kernel is moving gcc up to 2.8.1, which many of us would like to see. I think it's got a real chance in the next 1-3 months. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 15:40:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21638 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from neutron.neutron.org (neutron.neutron.org [207.167.86.239]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21631 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hackers@neutron.neutron.org) Received: (from hackers@localhost) by neutron.neutron.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA08326 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:10 GMT (envelope-from hackers) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:10 GMT From: hungry hacker Message-Id: <199810211540.PAA08326@neutron.neutron.org> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mouse/keyboard simulation Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dear hackers i only post to this list after trying to hack out a simple shell command to "cut a line" in xterm. ie, how hard is it to simulate three mouse clicks with (say) xsendevent (xse). (answer, harder than it looks). question: i am just about ready to kluge a gate on my mouse to do it (arrghh). can anyone tell me where how to hack the X mouse driver to do it? i just have mouse --> /dev/cuaa0 what is the program that deals with the raw mouse? thanks Bill. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 15:50:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22787 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:50:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22779 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:50:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02613; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810212254.PAA02613@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: hungry hacker cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: mouse/keyboard simulation In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:10 GMT." <199810211540.PAA08326@neutron.neutron.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:54:15 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > dear hackers > i only post to this list after trying to hack out a simple > shell command to "cut a line" in xterm. ie, how hard is it > to simulate three mouse clicks with (say) xsendevent (xse). > (answer, harder than it looks). > question: i am just about ready to kluge a gate on my mouse > to do it (arrghh). can anyone tell me where how to hack the > X mouse driver to do it? i just have mouse --> /dev/cuaa0 > what is the program that deals with the raw mouse? You're doing the wrong thing. Terminals are *abstract*, and you can't expect to talk to them like that. If you want something that a previous program has output, parse its output. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 15:52:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22953 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:52:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22946 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:52:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22210; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362E657F.34F3AA87@gorean.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:51:43 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: Nate Williams , The Subject: Re: CVS version updated References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > Several tools, like the system build tools (gcc, linker, etc) and most > obviously cvs, are so important to keep stable, that the first, second, > and 99th consideration is stability. Upgrades are, comparatively > speaking, a minor consideration. I couldn't agree more that stability is important, especially in -Stable. Although I think a few more chances can be taken in -Current. :) > That's not to say your comment is worthless, it's not, and it's good to > be reminded, especially about the status of those selfsame important > tools. On top of that, it's slow pressure of this sort that eventually > does see things upgraded. Yes, I've learned this lesson over time. While I'm at it, 'patch' is out of date too. :) > You learn to have a knee-jerk negative > reaction to folks who want to always go with the latest bugs, tho. Actually my post specifically said that it would be a good idea to wait before going with 1.10, and that the Y2K problem is more important and fixed in the 1.9 branch. But I see your point. At the same time, Y2K issues are an important consideration in today's climate. In fact, I meant to mention previously that we should put an entry for this on our page until it's fixed. > I think the next big step past a elf kernel is moving gcc up to 2.8.1, > which many of us would like to see. I think it's got a real chance in > the next 1-3 months. I really hope you're not saying that more than one upgrade can't happen at the same time. Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:08:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24935 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:08:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24930 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:08:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00857 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:12:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199810212312.JAA00857@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: BIOS extension format To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:12:20 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Does anyone know what format Phoenix uses for their ROM bios extensions? I know the bios checks for an 8-bit checksum over the entire block and it expects a magic number of 0xaa55. The user docs say that the bios gets the size of the extension from the "extension header". From the 3 bios extensions that I have, it's not obvious where that size is stored or what the entry address is. 8-( I've tried asking (a) the board vendor (Intel); (b) the board manufacturer (Radisys); and (c) Phoenix. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:24:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26995 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:24:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26979 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:24:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02805; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:28:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810212328.QAA02805@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: John Birrell cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BIOS extension format In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:12:20 +1000." <199810212312.JAA00857@cimlogic.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:28:11 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Does anyone know what format Phoenix uses for their ROM bios extensions? > I know the bios checks for an 8-bit checksum over the entire block > and it expects a magic number of 0xaa55. The user docs say that the > bios gets the size of the extension from the "extension header". From > the 3 bios extensions that I have, it's not obvious where that size > is stored or what the entry address is. 8-( > > I've tried asking (a) the board vendor (Intel); (b) the board manufacturer > (Radisys); and (c) Phoenix. Best guess is it's the format described in the PnP BIOS document, where the image starts with: offset length ---------------------------------------- 0x0 0x2 0xaa55 (signature) 0x2 0x1 length/512 0x3 0x4 initialisation vector 0x7 0x13 reserved 0x1a 0x2 offset to expansion header The expansion header generic format is: offset length ---------------------------------------- 0x0 0x4 $??? (??? is specific to option type) 0x4 0x1 structure revision 0x5 0x1 length/16 0x6 0x2 offset to next header (0 if none) 0x8 0x1 reserved (? spec says 0xffff!) 0x9 0x1 checksum 0x10 ? header-specific data There's more specific information here on PnP devices intented to participate in the boot path (disk, screen, keyboard etc.) if this is looking promising. The document you want is "Plug and Play BIOS Specification" (version 1.0A); you should be able to get it from Microsoft under http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/respect/pnpspecs.htm in Word format (*sigh*). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:34:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28476 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:34:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA28469 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:34:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robertbutler@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [205.226.11.3] by send104.yahoomail.com; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:37:00 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Butler Subject: Anybody know if there is any decoding capability in tcpdump? To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG that allow us to print the captured packages as decoded format like using snoop in solaris? It means we can see something like vers:45, hlen:**, checksum:**** .... Or can we combine any other utilities to achieve that? I know -vv provides much more detail information. However, it's still not the whole package. Thanks in advance, Robert _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:35:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:35:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28600 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA00958; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:39:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199810212339.JAA00958@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: BIOS extension format In-Reply-To: <199810212328.QAA02805@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 21, 98 04:28:11 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:39:14 +1000 (EST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Smith wrote: > Best guess is it's the format described in the PnP BIOS document, where > the image starts with: [...] > There's more specific information here on PnP devices intented to > participate in the boot path (disk, screen, keyboard etc.) if this is > looking promising. Thanks Mike. At first look, the extensions look like they're in that format. > The document you want is "Plug and Play BIOS Specification" (version > 1.0A); you should be able to get it from Microsoft under > http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/respect/pnpspecs.htm > in Word format (*sigh*). I'll go look at that. Urk, I guess that means I have to boot Windows. I hope I can still remember how to do that. 8-) -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:37:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA28782 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:37:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28777 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:37:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40343>; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:36:07 +1000 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:36:35 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: FS Behaviour with small frags To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Oct22.093607est.40343@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm looking at using a 4096/512 filesystem (instead of the standard 8192/1024) for news spool. (Based on an analysis of my current news spool, this will save about 10% of the space). Are there any down-sides to using 4096/512 instead of 8192/1024? For the same disk and cylinder group organisation, will a 4096/512 FS be slower or use more system resources than an 8192/1024 FS (given lots of small files)? My major concerns are that either the buffer cache will allocate 8K buffers and not use half of them (effectively halving the cache size), or that allocating a mixture of 4K and 8K buffers will lead to excessive fragmentation (reducing the performance of the remaining 8K FS). Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29001 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:39:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA28994 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:39:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02927; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:44:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810212344.QAA02927@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Robert Butler cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know if there is any decoding capability in tcpdump? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:37:00 PDT." <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:44:03 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > that allow us to print the captured packages as decoded format like > using snoop in solaris? It means we can see something like vers:45, > hlen:**, checksum:**** .... > > Or can we combine any other utilities to achieve that? > > I know -vv provides much more detail information. However, it's still > not the whole package. If you want that sort of detail, I can't recommend ports/net/ethereal highly enough. It's still growing, but it'll do what you want and a great deal more. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 16:56:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:56:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA00626 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:55:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07892; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:54:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:54:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Studded cc: Nate Williams , The Subject: Re: CVS version updated In-Reply-To: <362E657F.34F3AA87@gorean.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Studded wrote: > > I think the next big step past a elf kernel is moving gcc up to 2.8.1, > > which many of us would like to see. I think it's got a real chance in > > the next 1-3 months. > > I really hope you're not saying that more than one upgrade can't happen > at the same time. Depends on the size of the change (how much it affects). The larger the change, the farther apart they must be, just so that breakage is more obvious. Nobody's going to make a major change within a week or two of changing any really major tool ... or if they do, no one's going to be very happy about the confusion it causes in bug reports. Example, your cvs suggestion, and gcc upgrade. They most definitely won't be occuring simultaneously. That doesn't mean a month apart, either. If there's lots of successful reports, and no reported problems, then the committer with the 2nd change in mind is going to feel more comfortable about making another change more quickly. It's not an absolute rule, it's common sense. ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 17:56:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05972 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:56:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt053nb4.san.rr.com (dt053nb4.san.rr.com [204.210.34.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05967 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:56:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (Studded@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dt053nb4.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23547; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:56:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Message-ID: <362E82B0.7835CE6F@gorean.org> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:56:16 -0700 From: Studded Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE-1015 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Robey CC: The Subject: Re: CVS version updated References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chuck Robey wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Studded wrote: > > > > I think the next big step past a elf kernel is moving gcc up to 2.8.1, > > > which many of us would like to see. I think it's got a real chance in > > > the next 1-3 months. > > > > I really hope you're not saying that more than one upgrade can't happen > > at the same time. > > Depends on the size of the change (how much it affects). I realize that you don't know who I am or what I do for a living, so I will just say that I was speaking tongue in cheek, but I'm sure that the full explanation of the upgrade procedure is useful. :) > The larger the > change, the farther apart they must be, just so that breakage is more > obvious. Nobody's going to make a major change within a week or two of > changing any really major tool ... or if they do, no one's going to be > very happy about the confusion it causes in bug reports. So the recent merge-a-thon in -current was a bad idea? Ok, I'll make a note. :) Thanks, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Go PADRES! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 18:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06820 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:05:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au ([202.12.86.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06805 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:05:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@netplex.com.au) Received: from spinner.netplex.com.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spinner.netplex.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/Spinner) with ESMTP id JAA19302; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:03:17 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from peter@spinner.netplex.com.au) Message-Id: <199810220103.JAA19302@spinner.netplex.com.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Peter Jeremy cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FS Behaviour with small frags In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:36:35 +1000." <98Oct22.093607est.40343@border.alcanet.com.au> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:03:17 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Jeremy wrote: > I'm looking at using a 4096/512 filesystem (instead of the standard > 8192/1024) for news spool. (Based on an analysis of my current news > spool, this will save about 10% of the space). > > Are there any down-sides to using 4096/512 instead of 8192/1024? For > the same disk and cylinder group organisation, will a 4096/512 FS be > slower or use more system resources than an 8192/1024 FS (given lots > of small files)? I threw a lot of effort at this some time ago, but couldn't make it work reliably under 2.2.early-something at the time. It was regularly corrupting the freelists, having dup frees, etc. Switching back to 8192/1024 resolved all problems and the machine ran for months at a time. I was tried both 4096/512 and 4096/1024, including several newfs's because the filesystem was so badly damaged that fsck could not fix it. This is over a year out of date though, and closer to 2 years. Cheers, -Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 18:12:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA07497 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA07490 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:12:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA21490; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:42:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA19281; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:42:10 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981022104209.G1219@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:42:09 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter Jeremy , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FS Behaviour with small frags References: <98Oct22.093607est.40343@border.alcanet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <98Oct22.093607est.40343@border.alcanet.com.au>; from Peter Jeremy on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:36:35AM +1000 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 9:36:35 +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > I'm looking at using a 4096/512 filesystem (instead of the standard > 8192/1024) for news spool. (Based on an analysis of my current news > spool, this will save about 10% of the space). > > Are there any down-sides to using 4096/512 instead of 8192/1024? For > the same disk and cylinder group organisation, will a 4096/512 FS be > slower or use more system resources than an 8192/1024 FS (given lots > of small files)? Yes, both. Of course, the main system resource is inodes, and you obviously want more of them. The speed problem is mainly a matter of greater fragmentation, of which I would expect a lot in a news server. > My major concerns are that either the buffer cache will allocate 8K > buffers and not use half of them (effectively halving the cache > size), No, that won't happen. > or that allocating a mixture of 4K and 8K buffers will lead to > excessive fragmentation (reducing the performance of the remaining > 8K FS). No, the size of the buffer isn't necessarily the block size of the file system. ufs is quite clever in assigning optimum buffer sizes. I've been examining the request size for Vinum, and I find request (=block) sizes between 512 and 61440 bytes. When copying large files, for example, you're liable to see the 60 kB buffers. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 18:41:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10170 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:41:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10158 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:41:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA21869; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd021846; Wed Oct 21 18:41:09 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12492; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:41:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810220141.SAA12492@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:41:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jlemon@americantv.com, jooji@webnology.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Oct 20, 98 03:25:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. > > I don't want to know, what do you smoke, but please, explain, what kind > of disclosure of the GPL'ed source is prohibited by GPL? Disclosure of binaries without source code. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 18:48:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA10902 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:48:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from spawn.nectar.com (spawn.nectar.com [204.27.67.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA10893 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:48:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nectar@spawn.nectar.com) Received: from localhost.nectar.com ([127.0.0.1] helo=spawn.nectar.com) by spawn.nectar.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zW9r2-0005Bb-00; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:47:56 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 X-PGP-RSAfprint: 00 F9 E6 A2 C5 4D 0A 76 26 8B 8B 57 73 D0 DE EE X-PGP-RSAkey: http://www.nectar.com/nectar-pgp262.txt From: Jacques Vidrine In-reply-to: <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> References: <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: Anybody know if there is any decoding capability in tcpdump? To: Robert Butler cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:47:56 -0500 Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - From /usr/ports/net/tcpshow/pkg/DESCR: ``tcpshow's output is simular to Sun Solaris's snoop(1M) command for network packet capture and inspection.'' Note however that it is not real time. It reads a tcpdump packet output file. Jacques Vidrine / n@nectar.com / nectar@FreeBSD.org On 21 October 1998 at 16:37, Robert Butler wrote: > that allow us to print the captured packages as decoded format like > using snoop in solaris? It means we can see something like vers:45, > hlen:**, checksum:**** .... > > Or can we combine any other utilities to achieve that? > > I know -vv provides much more detail information. However, it's still > not the whole package. > > Thanks in advance, > Robert > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNi6OyzeRhT8JRySpAQFssAP+I3xdIY2m0voN6MLZ/+JApOboiahc9IL0 tUQxipZg+h/wFoN/KmrkxsYMky27zQf8B0i486vwM+gOVCTyF9K6Du/OSW1ffd/C z3arLBwKXy8AFPrTe+HE/15bcP+R35s9+fls+/MibSJKtDWFBFlfUMVQD5TMGvpN ln9SfF2B3Xk= =KD8r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:01:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12227 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12222 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:01:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25372; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:01:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd025349; Wed Oct 21 19:01:08 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13283; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:01:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810220201.TAA13283@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Handling page faults in user space ? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:01:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810210744.IAA09732@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Oct 21, 98 08:44:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i was wondering how to handle page faults/segment violations in user > space. Looking at mmap, signal and friends it looks like it is almost > possible. > > E.g. take the following program segment: > > int *p = 0xdeadbeef ; > > sig_t > handle_sigsegv(int i) > { > fprintf(stderr, "got sigsegv\n"); > mmap(p, 0x1000, PROT_READ, MAP_ANON, -1, 0); > } > > main() > { > int a; > signal(SIGSEGV, handle_sigsegv); > > a = *p ; /* this results in a SIGSEGV being posted */ > fprintf(stderr, "ahhh....\n"); > } > > causes first a fault and then the faulting instruction is restarted and > produces the right output. What is missing is how to know, in the > signal handler, the fault virtual address and maybe IP associated to > the faulting instruction. > > Ideas anyone ? The Go Solo 2 CDROM says that siginfo_t SHALL contain, minimally, the following fields: typedef struct { int si_signo; /* signal number*/ int si_errno; /* if non-zero, there is an errno * associated with this signal, as * defined in */ int si_code; /* signal code*/ pid_t si_pid; /* sending process ID*/ uid_t si_uid; /* real user ID of sending process*/ void *si_addr; /* address of faulting instruction*/ int si_status; /* exit value or signal*/ long si_band; /* band event for SIGPOLL*/ union sigval si_value; /* signal value*/ } siginfo_t; For the relevent signals, the values si_code can take on are: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR /* address not mapped to object*/ SEGV_ACCERR /* invalid permissions for mapped object*/ SIGBUS BUS_ADRALN /* invalid address alignment*/ BUS_ADRERR /* non-existant physical address*/ BUS_OBJERR /* object specific hardware error*/ It also states that, in addition, the following signal-specific information WILL be available: SIGILL SIGFPE si_addr /* address of faulting instruction*/ SIGSEGV SIGBUS si_addr /* address of faulting memory reference*/ SIGCHLD si_pid /* child process ID*/ si_status /* exit value or signal*/ si_uid /* real user ID of the process that sent * the signal */ SIGPOLL si_band /* band event for POLL_IN, POLL_OUT, or * POLL_MSG */ I think you are looking for si_addr, and that you can't know the IP, since it overloads si_addr, but knowing the fault address is good enough to handle the fault. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:04:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA12531 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:04:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (phobos.illtel.denver.co.us [207.33.75.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA12523 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:04:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us) Received: from localhost (abelits@localhost) by phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA20641; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:03:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Belits To: Terry Lambert cc: jlemon@americantv.com, jooji@webnology.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810220141.SAA12492@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. > > > > I don't want to know, what do you smoke, but please, explain, what kind > > of disclosure of the GPL'ed source is prohibited by GPL? > > Disclosure of binaries without source code. 8-). *Lack* of disclosure of the source code with binaries disclosure is prohibited, not the disclosure itself. Just lack of attribution in the case of BSD license. -- Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:14:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA13414 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:14:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA13407 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA14317; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:14:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810220214.TAA14317@austin.polstra.com> To: Studded@gorean.org Subject: Re: CVS version updated In-Reply-To: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> References: <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:14:05 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <362E3E20.D84C354E@gorean.org>, Studded wrote: > There is a 1.10 release of CVS available, although it apparently has a > small bug related to CVSROOT with a trailing slash. We may want to > consider an upgrade at some point in the near future however because > according to cyclic there are known Y2K bugs in cvs versions < 1.9.27. > http://www.cyclic.com/cvs/dev-known.html for more info. > > From what I can see the cvs sources are already contrib'ified, so it > should be an easy upgrade, yes? Probably. But changes to CVS should be left to our CVS-Meister Peter Wemm, who generally does an excellent job of keeping on top of CVS developments. Your resident CVSup-Meister (me) also likes to check things out before committing to new versions of CVS. Sometimes changes are introduced that can lead to major CVSup fire drills if we're not prepared for them. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:27:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:27:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA14852 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:27:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA03715; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:27:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpd003686; Wed Oct 21 19:26:51 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA14347; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:26:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810220226.TAA14347@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD To: abelits@phobos.illtel.denver.co.us (Alex Belits) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:26:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: tlambert@primenet.com, jlemon@americantv.com, jooji@webnology.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Alex Belits" at Oct 21, 98 07:03:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > So you could argue that the GPL is just another form of an NDA. > > > > > > I don't want to know, what do you smoke, but please, explain, what kind > > > of disclosure of the GPL'ed source is prohibited by GPL? > > > > Disclosure of binaries without source code. 8-). > > *Lack* of disclosure of the source code with binaries disclosure is > prohibited, not the disclosure itself. That's what I said. > Just lack of attribution in the case of BSD license. Not that this belongs here, but I never claimed that the BSD license claim credit clause (which you will notice is not present in much of the new FreeBSD code because of the credit stacking issue) wasn't a restriction, only that forcing me to become an FTP repository or to ship 3 floppies instead of 1, is a restriction. If the theory behind the GPL really worked in practice, Microsoft Word would be under GPL, and the Sovereign Nation Of Texas would be asking for advice on how to convert from capitalism to socialism. Not that this belongs here. A: "Come the revolution, we will all drive big black cars; Come the revolution, we will all smoke big cigars; Come the revolution, we will all have a blonde on each arm." B: "What happens if I don't *want* to drive around in a big black car, smoking a big cigar, with a blonde on each arm?" A: "Come the revolution, you'll do as you're damn well told." Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:28:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA15013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:28:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from relay.lanka.net (relay.lanka.net [202.51.131.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA15004 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:28:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from selvaraj@sri.lanka.net) Received: from sri.lanka.net (sri.lanka.net [202.51.128.1]) by relay.lanka.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01202 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:28:26 +0600 (GMT) Received: from Default (an-port3.lanka.net [202.51.140.131]) by sri.lanka.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA05174 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:30:37 +0600 (GMT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:30:37 +0600 (GMT) Message-Id: <199810220230.IAA05174@sri.lanka.net> X-Sender: selvaraj@sri.lanka.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: selvaraj@sri.lanka.net (K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri Lanka) Subject: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I am using FreeBSD 2.2.2. Recently I have got Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34. It was installed on the FreeBSD 2.2.2 with LINUX emulation. %modstat {gives} Type ID Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name EXEC 0 4 f442c000 001c f4432010 1 linux_mod System library requirement is GNU C Library version 2.0.7 When I try to run the binaries such as oracle, svrmgrl etc it gives Error message : ELF binary format not known Abort trap Those binary files and object files start with "^?ELF..". As such, when I try to reling those object it gives Error message : Error code 1 Please make comment in this regard. Selvarajan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 19:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA17222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:48:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from proxy.grad.kiev.ua (grad-UTC-28k8.ukrtel.net [195.5.25.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA17190 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Received: from Shevchenko.Kiev.UA (cam [10.0.0.50]) by proxy.grad.kiev.ua (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13251; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:43:28 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA) Message-ID: <362E9B21.213543BE@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:40:33 +0300 From: Ruslan Shevchenko Reply-To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.5-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri Lanka" CC: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 References: <199810220230.IAA05174@sri.lanka.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri Lanka wrote: > > I am using FreeBSD 2.2.2. Recently I have got Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for > LINUX 2.0.34. It was installed on the FreeBSD 2.2.2 with LINUX emulation. > > %modstat {gives} > > Type ID Off Loadaddr Size Info Rev Module Name > > EXEC 0 4 f442c000 001c f4432010 1 linux_mod > > System library requirement is GNU C Library version 2.0.7 > > When I try to run the binaries such as oracle, svrmgrl etc it gives Error > message : ELF binary format not known > Abort trap > > Those binary files and object files start with "^?ELF..". As such, when I > try to reling those object it gives Error message : Error code 1 > man brantlelf > Please make comment in this regard. > RTFM > Selvarajan > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- @= //RSSH mailto:Ruslan@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA CORBA in Ukraine & ex-USSR: http://www.corbadev.kiev.ua To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 22:14:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28386 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:14:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28378 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:14:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA01763; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:14:18 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:14:17 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: adding syscall Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I recently added a new syscall to my kernel, and have been trying to compile a userland tool which uses it. However I'm receiving "unreferenced symbol from text segment" error messages each time i try to compile, each referring to the new syscall. What am I doing incorrectly? Thanks in advance, Nick -- Email: ncb@poboxes.com - http://www.poboxes.com/ncb Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 22:23:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA28708 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:23:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from po6.andrew.cmu.edu (PO6.ANDREW.CMU.EDU [128.2.10.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28703 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:23:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tcrimi+@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: (from postman@localhost) by po6.andrew.cmu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.2) id BAA22814 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: via switchmail; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:22:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unix14.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.60.Jun.27.1996.03.02.53.sun4.51.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4m.54 via MS.5.6.unix14.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4_51; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8q=g4Ba00YUq1Eb0g0@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:22:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Valentino Crimi To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: pci_map_mem() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm working on a device driver and have been running into a bit of vaugeness over the pci_map_mem interface. From what I've gathered: pci_map_mem(pci tag, reg, vaddr, paddr) where reg is the base address register and vaddr and paddr will be set to the address space allocated. paddr would be the address of the page boundary? I wrote some code with these assuptions in mind which boiled down to this: if(!pci_map_mem(tag, 0x10, &va, &pa)) return; regbase = va + REG_OFFSET; regbase[REG10] = 0x03; That last operation dumped me into ddb ;) Where am I going wrong? I'm under the assumption that a successful pci_map_mem maps all the memory the card requests (so I shouldn't fall off), and also makes that memory immediately accessible to me. TIA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 22:43:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA29561 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pchost.com (pchost.com [203.24.253.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA29556 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:42:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kyle@pchost.com) Received: from pchost.com (bob.pchost.com [203.24.253.107]) by pchost.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26035 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:51:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from kyle@pchost.com) Message-ID: <362EC58B.8137D73@pchost.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:41:32 +1000 From: kyle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.7-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: bad sectors References: <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have some bad sectors on my hard drive and need to find out where they are. Is anyone able to inform me to where I am able to get this information and how I can get it. kyle buttress To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Oct 21 23:25:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA02287 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:25:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (banshee.cs.uow.edu.au [130.130.188.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02267 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au) Received: (from ncb05@localhost) by banshee.cs.uow.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id QAA27339; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:24:20 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:24:19 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Charles Brawn X-Sender: ncb05@banshee.cs.uow.edu.au To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: adding syscall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ignore that last message, stupidity on my part. :) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote: > I recently added a new syscall to my kernel, and have been trying to > compile a userland tool which uses it. However I'm receiving > "unreferenced symbol from text segment" error messages each time i try > to compile, each referring to the new syscall. What am I doing > incorrectly? > > Thanks in advance, > Nick > > -- > Email: ncb@poboxes.com - http://www.poboxes.com/ncb > Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A > Nick -- Email: ncb@poboxes.com - http://www.poboxes.com/ncb Key fingerprint = DE 30 33 D3 16 91 C8 8D A7 F8 70 03 B7 77 1A 2A To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 01:25:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA09940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:25:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from florence.pavilion.net (florence.pavilion.net [194.242.128.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA09932 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:25:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joe@florence.pavilion.net) Received: (from joe@localhost) by florence.pavilion.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA22483; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:22:06 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from joe) Message-ID: <19981022092205.C21242@pavilion.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:22:05 +0100 From: Josef Karthauser To: rssh@grad.kiev.ua, "K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri Lanka" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 References: <199810220230.IAA05174@sri.lanka.net> <362E9B21.213543BE@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <362E9B21.213543BE@Shevchenko.Kiev.UA>; from Ruslan Shevchenko on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:40:33AM +0300 X-NCC-RegID: uk.pavilion Organisation: Pavilion Internet plc, 24 The Old Steine, Brighton, BN1 1EL, England Phone: +44-1273-607072 Fax: +44-1273-607073 Mobile: +44-403-596893 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:40:33AM +0300, Ruslan Shevchenko wrote: > K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri > Lanka wrote: > > > > When I try to run the binaries such as oracle, svrmgrl etc it gives Error > > message : ELF binary format not known > > Abort trap > > > > Those binary files and object files start with "^?ELF..". As such, when I > > try to reling those object it gives Error message : Error code 1 > > > > man brantlelf or: man brandelf (if that doesn't work ;) Joe -- Josef Karthauser FreeBSD: How many times have you booted today? Technical Manager Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org) Pavilion Internet plc. [joe@pavilion.net, joe@uk.freebsd.org, joe@tao.org.uk] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 01:27:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10066 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10061 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:27:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id KAA22213; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:26:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:26:51 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Mike Smith cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Where can I find information on multiple headed machines? And I mean the X concept of One CPU box and attached to it a number of sets One set consists of a mouse, keyboard and head (graphics screen or serial output device). Two different ways of doing this: - X - text consoles With X it should be possible, but I don't know how. Any pointers would be appreciated. In text mode however I am unaware of any possiblities, largely lacking probably because of the fact that there are no possiblities to connect more than one keyboard and screen anyway at the moment. Up to now. USB has the ability to accept more than one keyboard and more than one mouse. I would like to be able to boot a machine and have login prompts appear on multiple screens: A proper multi-user system. Nick USB for FreeBSD development. P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 01:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA10819 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:38:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA10798 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id SAA17904; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:37:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981022183703.A17878@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:37:03 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Nick Hibma , Mike Smith Cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:26:51AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:26:51AM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: >Where can I find information on multiple headed machines? And I mean >the X concept of > > One CPU box > >and attached to it > > a number of sets > >One set consists of a mouse, keyboard and head (graphics screen or >serial output device). Two different ways of doing this: > > - X > - text consoles Actually, the X concept of multi-head is multiple screens and a single set of input devices. >With X it should be possible, but I don't know how. Any pointers would Some commercial X servers support it in the standard X way (and XFree86 will in version 4.0). With suitable OS and X server support, multiple X servers could be run to provide what you're looking for, for X at least. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 01:47:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11430 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-151.airnet.net [207.242.81.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11425 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02202 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:45:05 GMT Message-ID: <362EAA40.B215D4A9@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:45:04 +0000 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <19981022183703.A17878@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Dawes wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 10:26:51AM +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > > >Where can I find information on multiple headed machines? And I mean > >the X concept of > > > > One CPU box > > > >and attached to it > > > > a number of sets > > > >One set consists of a mouse, keyboard and head (graphics screen or > >serial output device). Two different ways of doing this: Let's not forget the physical limitations of the host machine. I'm pretty sure that you'd want to use PCI video cards, and how many PCI slots do you have? -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 01:53:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA11650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:53:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11643 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:53:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22979; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:52:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810220852.KAA22979@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Nick Hibma at "Oct 22, 98 10:26:51 am" To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:52:04 +0200 (CEST) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Nick Hibma who wrote: > > USB has the ability to accept more than one keyboard and more than one > mouse. I would like to be able to boot a machine and have login prompts > appear on multiple screens: A proper multi-user system. Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & keyboard for each anyways. > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. Given the right HW I could help out... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 02:34:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14444 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:34:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14439 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA25263; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:33:53 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:33:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Kris Kirby cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362EAA40.B215D4A9@airnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Let's not forget the physical limitations of the host machine. I'm pretty sure > that you'd want to use PCI video cards, and how many PCI slots do you have? You are either part of the core team and on the cautious side of things or otherwise on the wrong list... :-) To counter your remark: Let's not forget about the possiblities that might emerge from this. x servers with lots of PCI slots, exactly for this purpose x graphics cards with multiple connectors for monitors on the back (they exist, I believe, otherwise it won't take long, now windows has multi head support) And yes it will be slow. But having an extra place to work at for only ECU 499.99 including monitor is something one or the other might go for. See VAX VMS in the old days. That worked, on a CPU the 'size' of a 486. Nick. P.S.: This is talking features, not base requirement. The base requirement is to be able to feed the USB keyboard input into the normal keyboard. You're right from that perspective. -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 02:35:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14496 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:35:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14490; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:35:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id LAA25293; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:35:09 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:35:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810220852.KAA22979@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily > afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & > keyboard for each anyways. Desktop space? > > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. > > Given the right HW I could help out... Well, that's the problem really, given the right hardware I would do it myself. But try to get USB hardware in Italy... Nick -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 02:46:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA15376 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:46:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA15369; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:46:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA23234; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:46:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810220946.LAA23234@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: from Nick Hibma at "Oct 22, 98 11:35:05 am" To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:46:11 +0200 (CEST) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Nick Hibma who wrote: > > Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily > > afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & > > keyboard for each anyways. > > Desktop space? Hmm, monitor and Keyboard takes up the most space, the CPU unit can be put under the table :) Besides, what the use of such systems, one user can easily use all the CPU in one machine, and running multiple X's etc seems a good way to use sufficiently of resources to make it a pain to use... > > > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > > > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. > > > > Given the right HW I could help out... > > Well, that's the problem really, given the right hardware I would do it > myself. But try to get USB hardware in Italy... Well, that is not a problem her in DK land, funding is :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 02:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA16362 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:59:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA16354; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA11764; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:03:13 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810220803.JAA11764@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:03:13 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Nick Hibma" at Oct 22, 98 11:34:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > > > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. > > > > Given the right HW I could help out... > > Well, that's the problem really, given the right hardware I would do it > myself. But try to get USB hardware in Italy... being in italy i can speak about that.. cameras and scanners are more and more available in stores on USB nowadays (actually it is becoming difficult to find non-USB scanners and especially cameras in some places). I haven't seen many keyboards/mice on USB though. Speaking of USB: i have read that bus throughput with a single node is reported at about 750KB/s, whereas with multiple nodes bus throughput falls down very rapidly (because of arbitration etc ?) to 250KB or so. So i would not want a HD on it! cheers luigi To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 03:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16668; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id MAA26499; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:04:51 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:04:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: Luigi Rizzo cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810220803.JAA11764@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Speaking of USB: i have read that bus throughput with a single node is > reported at about 750KB/s, whereas with multiple nodes bus throughput > falls down very rapidly (because of arbitration etc ?) to 250KB or so. > So i would not want a HD on it! At max of 1mb/s a second (I can't remember the exact theoretical maximum, but it should be more than 750Kb/s) you dont' want to have more than a floppy attached to that port. Except if you have a portable like my colleague. It's so slim it only has one PCMCIA slot. And that one is used for ethernet. A hub is small enough to take with you and a hard disk is easily connected. Nah, I think you are wrong in some cases. But the figures come probably from a winDOS installation. Call M$ $upport and they will tell you that you then will have to move the HD onto the root hub and you will be allright. But with nothing talking, even with a number of hubs in between the HD and the root hub you should be able to get maximum performance. Bus arbitration is done completely by the root hub, so you should be able to dedicate the whole link to one device. Even interrupt traffic is scheduled by the root hub and _not_ the device. Nick -- building: 27A address: STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy tel.: +39 332 78 9549 fax.: +39 332 78 9185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 03:07:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16845 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:07:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16836 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; for ""; id LAA15434; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:07:20 +0100 (BST) Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); for "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG"; poster "scott"; id LAA28683; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:06:58 +0100 Message-ID: <19981022110658.P9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:06:58 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810220946.LAA23234@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199810220946=2ELAA23234=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Thu=2C_Oct_22=2C_1998_at_11:46:11AM_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:46:11AM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Nick Hibma who wrote: > > > Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily > > > afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & > > > keyboard for each anyways. > > > > Desktop space? > > Hmm, monitor and Keyboard takes up the most space, the CPU unit can be put > under the table :) > > Besides, what the use of such systems, one user can easily use all the CPU > in one machine, and running multiple X's etc seems a good way to use > sufficiently of resources to make it a pain to use... Eh? Maybe people over here on -hackers are an exception, but the things that things that most computers spend most of their time doing (web surfing, email, word processing, editing code, etc) hardly tax a 486, let alone the monster machines you can get for small change these days. True, you *can* use up all the CPU, but usually only for a short time. Having one box serve the interactive needs of a small group of users rather than spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. Scott -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 03:36:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA18444 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:36:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sos.freebsd.dk (sos.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA18427 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 03:35:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sos@sos.freebsd.dk) Received: (from sos@localhost) by sos.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23454; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:35:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from sos) Message-Id: <199810221035.MAA23454@sos.freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19981022110658.P9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> from Scott Mitchell at "Oct 22, 98 11:06:58 am" To: scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Scott Mitchell) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:35:19 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Søren Schmidt Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In reply to Scott Mitchell who wrote: > > > > Besides, what the use of such systems, one user can easily use all the CPU > > in one machine, and running multiple X's etc seems a good way to use > > sufficiently of resources to make it a pain to use... > > Eh? Maybe people over here on -hackers are an exception, but the things > that things that most computers spend most of their time doing (web > surfing, email, word processing, editing code, etc) hardly tax a 486, let > alone the monster machines you can get for small change these days. True, > you *can* use up all the CPU, but usually only for a short time. Having > one box serve the interactive needs of a small group of users rather than > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? .. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 04:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20440 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:02:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20417 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:02:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA26932; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28422; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA10879; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810221101.EAA10879@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:01:07 -0700 In-Reply-To: Warner Losh "Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features?" (Oct 19, 12:31am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Warner Losh , Don Lewis Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 19, 12:31am, Warner Losh wrote: } Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? } In message <199810182115.OAA29673@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Don Lewis writes: } : In the meantime, I'd recommend running fsck until it stops reconnecting } : stuff under lost+found. Then run it again without the -p option (so that } : it ignores the clean flag), which will allow it to fix the reference } : counts. } } That's what I wound up doing, with some scrubbing of lost+found } inbetween runs, to get back to a fsck that was clean. I think what } was happening was that the link count was adjusted for files that were } dangling because fsck couldn't attach them to lost+found because the } directory was full. That might explain the link count on lost+found, but I don't think it explains why the empty directories that were attached under lost+found had a link count greater than 2. The only thing I can think of to explain the latter is that the other directories that were not reattached still had their .. links pointing to the directories that were reattached. I suspect that fsck should probably be more aggressive about clearing unreferenced empty directories, but that's somewhat complicated because you don't want the fix to cause .. links to point to unallocated inodes. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 04:20:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22216 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:20:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22210; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:20:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scott@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) Received: from brunos-sun.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.185]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.5/S-4.0) with SMTP; id MAA20942; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:19:42 +0100 (BST) Received: locally by brunos-sun (SMI-8.6/QMW-client-3.2b); poster "scott"; id MAA28807; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:19:20 +0100 Message-ID: <19981022121920.R9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:19:20 +0100 From: Scott Mitchell To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <19981022110658.P9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> <199810221035.MAA23454@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3C199810221035=2EMAA23454=40sos=2Efreebsd=2Edk=3E=3B_fro?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?m_S=F8ren_Schmidt_on_Thu=2C_Oct_22=2C_1998_at_12:35:19PM_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?+0200?= Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:35:19PM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: > In reply to Scott Mitchell who wrote: > > > > > > Besides, what the use of such systems, one user can easily use all the CPU > > > in one machine, and running multiple X's etc seems a good way to use > > > sufficiently of resources to make it a pain to use... > > > > Eh? Maybe people over here on -hackers are an exception, but the things > > that things that most computers spend most of their time doing (web > > surfing, email, word processing, editing code, etc) hardly tax a 486, let > > alone the monster machines you can get for small change these days. True, > > you *can* use up all the CPU, but usually only for a short time. Having > > one box serve the interactive needs of a small group of users rather than > > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. > > Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) > Yes indeed. We should just make everyone learn LaTeX & lynx instead :) -- =========================================================================== Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 04:42:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23555 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:42:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from arthur.axion.bt.co.uk (arthur.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.5.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23512 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk) Received: from rambo (actually rambo.futures.bt.co.uk) by arthur (local) with SMTP; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:41:21 +0100 Received: from mussel.futures.bt.co.uk (actually mussel) by rambo with SMTP (PP); Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:44:42 +0100 Received: by mussel.futures.bt.co.uk with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BDFDB8.AC40A750@mussel.futures.bt.co.uk>; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:37:04 +0100 Message-ID: From: Guilhem Ensuque To: "'freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org'" Subject: [BSD-hackers] ioctl options for networking ? Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:45:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all i am desperately looking for the SIOCSARP, SIOCGARP and SIOCDARP ioctl options but I can't find them in the file sockio.h. I am using 2.2.6 and the CD says it is based on Berkeley 4.4 BSD and in W R Stevens book on Unix network Programming (p.323) it says that these ioctl options are in 4.3 BSD. So my question is : where are they in FreeBSD 2.2.6 ?? A Linux bloke also told me that in Linux they now have changed the way to do system calls to the arp table (no more ioctl). It has to do with something called netlink (?) Has FreeBSD preceded Linux on that ? Thanks for any help Guilhem Ensuque Mobility Research Unit guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk B55-131B BT Laboratories Martlesham Heath tel : +44 1473 645 232 IPSWICH IP5 3RE (UK) fax : +44 1473 646 885 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 04:59:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA24605 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:59:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA24597 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:59:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Etienne.Debruin@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id NAA21176 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:48:38 +0200 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1b4) id kwa21174; Thu Oct 22 13:48:35 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA22966 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:57:11 +0200 Original: Received: (from debruin@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17108 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:00:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from debruin) From: Etienne de Bruin Message-Id: <199810221200.OAA17108@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: Q: bus mastering To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:00:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi, i paged through the mail list archives but could not find a specific technical discussion about bus mastering. i would like to implement bus mastering for a pci device driver. need more info... eT -- Etienne de Bruin, KryptoKom(R), Germany. eT@kryptokom.de +49 241 963 2635(w) "the promise of love is hard to ignore" - crowded house, private universe. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 06:21:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA00103 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:21:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.aussie.org (hallam.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.54.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA29995 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlnn4@oaks.com.au) Received: from bigbox (dialup-b1-29.raytrace.com [203.29.75.73]) by mail.aussie.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA07482 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:20:31 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199810221320.XAA07482@mail.aussie.org> From: "Hallam Oaks" To: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:19:28 +1000 Reply-To: "Hallam Oaks" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Multi-terabyte disk farm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG G'Day; I've a few things I'd like, If I may, to get opinions on. My current client (I'm a contractor) hired me to provide them with some assistance on a project that involves the digitising and non-real-time satellite transmission of television commercials. As part of this project, they want to store about 30,000 ads (they call them 'dubs') online for retrieval in a digital form. We estimate that we will need approximately 3-4 terabytes of storage to achieve this aim. Prior to my arrival two weeks ago, they had been planning to use a StorageTek Timberwolf library. This box has two DLT drives, a robot arm, and about 8 terabytes worth of tape slots. The requirement is for 24/7 availability, but speed is not an issue. Provided a dub can be retrieved onto a cache disk within an hour or so of it being requested from archive they'd be happy. Now, I know that this is a top-quality library (or so I have gathered from scanning the net) but when I heard how much the suppliers wanted for it I had to stop and think if there was a better way. I can't give exact figures but the box itself won't leave much change out of about US$100k, and that's with no software. Add the software on a Sun- based server with 100gb of cache and it goes to somewhere in the vicinity of US$375k (!). Needless to say my clients don't want to buy the software, but to write it internally. With current hard drive prices, I estimate we can put together a one terabyte disk farm for about US$60k (cost of media only), spread across several machines using hot swappable drive bays and dual SCSI buses per machine. We don't intend to use RAID unless there's strong advantages to it (I don't know a whole lot about it). We don't need striping or replication. One advantage of doing it via a distributed farm (I theorise) is that if one drive fries or one machine self-destructs, at least the rest of the system will still be working. A fried drive can be restored from one of the 25gb AIT backup tapes made of all the dubs. Secondly (and this is a major call I'm making), it won't work out cheaper for our estimated need of three terabytes unless the cost of HDD's keep on falling. We won't need full capacity until about two years has passed, meaning that we can start out with only a few hundred gig and scale it as we go, taking advantage of (hopefully) falling disk prices and increasing drive sizes. But, I'm stepping on one toe because one of the permanents (a hardware person) strongly favours using the TW. So I have to make darn sure I'm not blowing smoke out of my nether regions before I stick my neck out even further. My desire is to push for the farm because I believe it's better. (Going with the TW would actually be more profitable for me since one of the main reasons they hired me was to write the software to drive the flipping thing:). A farm ought to work out cheaper, be easier to work with (for the rest of the system software on a API level, rather than a hardware level), and could possibly be more reliable overall (being distributed). Additionally, we don't have to spend I-don't-know-how-long writing software to control it like we would with the library. OTOH the down sides are power, heat, extra administration costs, and probably a bunch of stuff I don't know yet (which is why I'm writing this ;). Needless to say I'm going to put my preferred solution as FreeBSD-based. Some of the criteria that I can't yet answer and would like feedback on are these - o is FreeBSD able to be made to recognise a new SCSI drive that wasn't present on boot ? i.e. a new drive is plugged into the hot bays. can it be recognised, formatted, and mounted by manual intervention ? o ditto if a drive fries. can it be taken out without the kernel getting too upset ? o is it feasable to automatically umount and spin down drives that haven't been accessed for a day or so ? typically, the older data (> 6 months) will be rarely, if ever, accessed before its two-year span expires and it's erased. o would the boot time of a system be dramatically prolonged by it having 500 or so gigabytes of SCSI drives hanging off its backside ? (I'm referring to a normal boot, with the drives having been properly unmounted. I don't even want to THINK about waiting on an fsck of 500 gigs of unclean disk ;). OTOH the size of the files is quite large, so it'd be feasable to use huge nodes. I've no particular objection to a reboot if need be to add/remove a drive, but if it took more than, say, 10 minutes, it'd be an issue I'd have to tackle with management. o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that drive family ? o does anyone have an opinion as to whether it's safe to assume that drive prices will continue to fall as they have done over the past two years ? I guess my main interest, despite the above questions, is really to hear if others think this is a realistic goal to be aiming for, and if others- who-have-gone-before-me have struck major problems doing the same (or a similar) thing. regards, -- Chris To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 06:37:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA01421 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:37:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from oddbjorn.bdc.no (oddbjorn.bdc.no [193.69.204.230]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01407 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:37:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from oddbjorn@oddbjorn.bdc.no) Received: (from oddbjorn@localhost) by oddbjorn.bdc.no (8.8.8/8.8.7) id PAA06302; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:35:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from oddbjorn) From: Oddbjorn Steffensen Message-Id: <199810221335.PAA06302@oddbjorn.bdc.no> Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-Reply-To: <199810221320.XAA07482@mail.aussie.org> from Hallam Oaks at "Oct 22, 98 11:19:28 pm" To: mlnn4@oaks.com.au Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:35:55 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I guess my main interest, despite the above questions, is really to hear > if others think this is a realistic goal to be aiming for, and if others- > who-have-gone-before-me have struck major problems doing the same (or a > similar) thing. You might want to check out the Tertiary Disk project at Berkeley : http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td/ which is in use by http://www.thinker.org/imagebase/index-2.html. > -- Chris -oddbjørn _________________________________________________________________________ http://oddbjorn.bdc.no/ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 06:47:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02894 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.aussie.org (hallam.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.54.166]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02888 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:47:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mlnn4@oaks.com.au) Received: from bigbox (dialup-b1-29.raytrace.com [203.29.75.73]) by mail.aussie.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA07521 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:46:46 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199810221346.XAA07521@mail.aussie.org> From: "Hallam Oaks" To: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:47:00 +1000 Reply-To: "Hallam Oaks" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows NT (4.0.1381;3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eek! My apologies - I posted this in -hackers. I meant to put it in -chat. Or is it better off here ? Sorry anyhow;( -- Chris On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:19:28 +1000, Hallam Oaks wrote: >G'Day; > >I've a few things I'd like, If I may, to get opinions on. > [SNIP] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 06:54:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA03576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:54:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA03567 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:54:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rivers@dignus.com) Received: from dignus.com (ponds.vnet.net [166.82.177.48]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.8/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA27740 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lakes.dignus.com (lakes [10.0.0.3]) by dignus.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04340 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:30:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from rivers@localhost) by lakes.dignus.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) id JAA05474 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:57:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas David Rivers Message-Id: <199810221357.JAA05474@lakes.dignus.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Another item to add to the FreeBSD vs. Linux pages... Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just F.Y.I. - anectodotal evidence to add to the weekly question of which is better, Linux vs. FreeBSD. I just spent a couple of days trying to get Linux booted on an old 486dx-33 machine I have, with a 3COM 3C503 (old 8-bit ethernet card). I was *quite* unsuccessful. It simply would not boot... no matter what I did. [The first image started loading and all I got was 6 dots and then "Boot failed".] This was with RedHat 5.1. I couldn't find anything about "Boot failed" on the RedHat web page, and since I didn't purchase the "boxed set" - I couldn't get technical support. However; I was able to reset the BIOS back to its defaults, put in the FreeBSD 3.0 boot floppy and do a complete install via the net (FTP). The only issue I had was guessing which interrupt the 3C503 was using; which took two guesses... Now; why was I bothering with Linux anyway? A program I frequently run had been updated, and required the RedHat 5.0 libraries which don't operate correctly on FreeBSD 2.2.x. But - this program runs fanatastically on FreeBSD 3.0 (with the libraries downloaded from RedHat.) I've learned my lesson, again, I'll not bother with Linux.... - Dave Rivers - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 07:55:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA08887 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA08882 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/SNNS-1.02) id JAA26061; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:54:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199810221454.JAA26061@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: multiple consoles in FreeBSD To: nick.himba@jrc.it Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:54:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The most obvious suggestion is to use terminals, just like in the old days. :-) To do it with X is different. If you really want to connect multiple keyboards/mice/monitors to one PC, you'll have a lot of fun ahead. The multiple monitors may be the easiest thing, since PCI allows more than one video card, and last I looked, the XFree86 server can be "set" to use a particular card. There may be some interaction with the system's primary console (allocation of a vty), but I suspect that it might not be too hard to run multiple Xservers... then again, maybe the X-syscons interaction is more complex, in which case you'd need to be able to have multiple instances of sc and I don't know if it was written to allow that. The mouse isn't a problem, hook up serial mice and problem solved. The X server is responsible for talking to the mouse anyways. The keyboard is the remaining problem and the real Fun Part(tm). You will essentially need to build a keyboard driver, and either write it into the Xserver to use a generic USB driver, or write a USB keyboard driver into the kernel and offer some sort of compatible interface to XFree86. This would work best, I think, with additional instances of sc, one bound to each keyboard, and if one did that, then things begin to look very much like one might expect a single-console system to look like. This sort of thing is actually much easier on a Sun, where there are far fewer complications because the console stuff is compartmentalized a bit better. (No offense to sos, sc is a beautiful bit of work, but Sun doesn't tie the keyboard and the display together until the very highest level. It is pretty easy to add a second keyboard/mouse to a Sun, particularly if you only want to use it in X). A much more traditional approach might be to build Xterminals and then use XDM. This will be slightly more pricey than buying multiple video cards and stuff to try to make one PC drive multiple kb/mon/mice, but more flexible in the long term. The Xterminal I do my day-to-day work on ia a 486/133 with 32MB RAM and a Diamond video card of some sort. It has a network card, mouse, floppy, and boots from floppy and NFS mounts and runs a minimal FreeBSD that runs X. (Code available). For the space conscious, who might not want a minitower PC, look at ASUS's "Booksize PC" - or at a laptop for that matter. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 08:25:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10843 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10764; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:24:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id LAA05133; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:19:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:19:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Berlin To: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810220852.KAA22979@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. > > Given the right HW I could help out... > Define right HW. I have USB modems, mice, and keyboards. I have 1 modem, 4 mice, and 3 keyboards. I'd be willing to give away 2-3 mice, and 1-2 keyboards. I'd be willing to give accounts on the system with the modem attached. Sorry, but it's a 300 dollar modem, and i only have one (It's a 3com modem). I can get more, but even if i got it at the MS company store (which i'd have to have a friend do, since i'm a contractor), the hardware still isn't all that cheap at cost. But it's cheaper than you'll find it elsewhere. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Søren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team > Even more code to hack -- will it ever end? > .. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 08:55:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13858 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:55:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA13846 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from harmony [10.0.0.6] by rover.village.org with esmtp (Exim 1.71 #1) id 0zWN4v-0001vM-00; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:55:09 -0600 Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.9.1/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA12071; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810221555.JAA12071@harmony.village.org> To: hungry hacker Subject: Re: mouse/keyboard simulation Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:40:10 GMT." <199810211540.PAA08326@neutron.neutron.org> References: <199810211540.PAA08326@neutron.neutron.org> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:55:35 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <199810211540.PAA08326@neutron.neutron.org> hungry hacker writes: : i only post to this list after trying to hack out a simple : shell command to "cut a line" in xterm. ie, how hard is it : to simulate three mouse clicks with (say) xsendevent (xse). : (answer, harder than it looks). : question: i am just about ready to kluge a gate on my mouse : to do it (arrghh). can anyone tell me where how to hack the : X mouse driver to do it? i just have mouse --> /dev/cuaa0 : what is the program that deals with the raw mouse? What is it that you are trying to accomplish, exactly? There are many programs that will load up the select buffer with text, leaving you to trigger the paste event by some other means. Alternatively, 'muble-foo | sh' will execute the output of the mumble-foo command as a shell script... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 08:56:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13999 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:56:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.ml.org (hsv1-196.airnet.net [207.242.81.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13993 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:56:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06652; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:54:05 GMT Message-ID: <362F0ECD.F14673FB@airnet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:54:05 +0000 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nick Hibma CC: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nick Hibma wrote: > Let's not forget about the possiblities that might emerge from this. > > x servers with lots of PCI slots, exactly for this purpose > x graphics cards with multiple connectors for monitors on the back > (they exist, I believe, otherwise it won't take long, now > windows has multi head support) If I'm not mistaken, I believe that we have a problem with PCI bridges. I'd love to buy a machine with eight PCI slots. I'm afraid I'd overtax the processor before I have all my toys hooked up. (1 ethernet + 7 video? Whee!!!) > And yes it will be slow. But having an extra place to work at for only > ECU 499.99 including monitor is something one or the other might go for. > See VAX VMS in the old days. That worked, on a CPU the 'size' of a 486. The comparison I like to use is ftp.cdrom.com. If a PPro/200 can shovel out 435GB a day, imagine what a faster machine could do. Get crazy: Quad PII/400. That ought to handle any number of video cards. :-) My ISP likes to run the above under NT and call it a news server. 512MB of ram. Complete waste of a machine. On a sidenote, they got what they deserved when my mailbox became corrupted. They had to rename all my mail files. All 160+ of them. Worldmail under NT. At least UN*X only has one mail file. Hey, I'd like to do a double header on my machine... But I don't have USB, and I would like to see a way to feed in keyboard and mouse data. Multiple keyboards and mice would definately be nifty. -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 09:29:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA17078 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:29:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA17072 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:29:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA06206; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810221628.JAA06206@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Nick Hibma Cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:28:12 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:26:51 +0200 (MET DST) Nick Hibma wrote: > With X it should be possible, but I don't know how. Any pointers would > be appreciated. In text mode however I am unaware of any possiblities, > largely lacking probably because of the fact that there are no > possiblities to connect more than one keyboard and screen anyway at the > moment. Up to now. NetBSD's wscons can handle multiple text displays, keyboards, mice, etc. The big problem is crappy PC hardware. If you plop more than one PCI VGA device in your system, You Lose, because they both attempt to map themselves in compatibility space so that the BIOS can talk to them. Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 09:40:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:40:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18795 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:40:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4038.ime.net [209.90.195.48]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id MAA03719; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981022123645.0097d1e0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:38:35 -0400 To: kyle , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: bad sectors In-Reply-To: <362EC58B.8137D73@pchost.com> References: <19981021233700.3420.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hmm.. normally you can find them by watching the dmesg output/messages output.. I had a drive full of them (I hate Western Digital 1.2gig's because of it), and by seeing where they were, I went and reinstalled FreeBSD, but resized the drive around it (luckily I only lost maybe 10mb). At the same time you should think to yourself "Perhaps this drive is going bad, and maybe I shouldn't rely on it for anything" :-) At 03:41 PM 10/22/98 +1000, kyle wrote: >Hi, > >I have some bad sectors on my hard drive and need to find out where they >are. >Is anyone able to inform me to where I am able to get this information >and how I can get it. > >kyle buttress > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 09:44:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19307 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19302 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:44:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4038.ime.net [209.90.195.48]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id MAA03726 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:44:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981022124020.00ad2100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:43:17 -0400 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: XL0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Got my dmesg output for the day.. (this is probably my 2nd day of using my XL card instead of a EP0'd 3c509), and i see this.. Anyone able to shed some light on it? It runs fine otherwise, not sure if this is killing performance when we have this happen or not. > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 > xl0: transmission error: 82 --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 09:48:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19827 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:48:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us [169.244.111.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19807 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:48:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4038.ime.net [209.90.195.48]) by Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us (8.9.1/8.8.8-Loki) with SMTP id MAA03733; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:47:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) X-Server-ID: Loki.orland.u91.k12.me.us, OCSNet - Orland Maine USA X-Coord-Name: Drew "Droobie" Baxter, OneNetwork Exchange X-Coord-Addr: Droobie@Openlink.orland.me.us X-Coord-Pager: USA: 207-471-2719, http://pagedroo.orland.me.us Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981022124559.0097ba40@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:46:30 -0400 To: Scott Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19981022110658.P9354@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> References: <199810220946.LAA23234@sos.freebsd.dk> <199810220946.LAA23234@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id JAA19817 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Only time I see anything above 0.05 is probably when I'm doing make world :-) At 11:06 AM 10/22/98 +0100, Scott Mitchell wrote: >On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 11:46:11AM +0200, Søren Schmidt wrote: >> In reply to Nick Hibma who wrote: >> > > Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily >> > > afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & >> > > keyboard for each anyways. >> > >> > Desktop space? >> >> Hmm, monitor and Keyboard takes up the most space, the CPU unit can be put >> under the table :) >> >> Besides, what the use of such systems, one user can easily use all the CPU >> in one machine, and running multiple X's etc seems a good way to use >> sufficiently of resources to make it a pain to use... > >Eh? Maybe people over here on -hackers are an exception, but the things >that things that most computers spend most of their time doing (web >surfing, email, word processing, editing code, etc) hardly tax a 486, let >alone the monster machines you can get for small change these days. True, >you *can* use up all the CPU, but usually only for a short time. Having >one box serve the interactive needs of a small group of users rather than >spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. > > Scott > >-- >=========================================================================== >Scott Mitchell | PGP Key ID |"If I can't have my coffee, I'm just > | 0x54B171B9 | like a dried up piece of roast goat" >QMW College, London, UK | 0xAA775B8B | -- J. S. Bach. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 10:46:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA28948 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:46:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28942; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29913; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810221745.KAA29913@george.lbl.gov> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems that ld in 3.0-RELEASE changed its behaving. In loading a dynamic library, it loads entire library regardless if objects are used or not. I do not know if this is a bug or intended goal, but it does not make sense to build libraries at this point. Would some one please look into this issue? Thanks, -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 10:48:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29380 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29370 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:48:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/SNNS-1.02) id MAA26363; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:47:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199810221747.MAA26363@aurora.sol.net> Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:47:51 -0500 (CDT) Cc: mlnn4@oaks.com.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > We estimate that we will need approximately 3-4 terabytes of storage to > achieve this aim. > Secondly (and this is a major call I'm making), it won't work out cheaper > for our estimated need of three terabytes unless the cost of HDD's keep on > falling. We won't need full capacity until about two years has passed, > meaning that we can start out with only a few hundred gig and scale it as > we go, taking advantage of (hopefully) falling disk prices and increasing > drive sizes. The latest I've heard is that you shouldn't expect much of a slowing until the Big Date... that is, the capacities will keep increasing and the price will keep falling until after 2000. After that point, it starts to get more speculative, due to the fact that you begin to reach some theoretical density barriers, although new technology is expected to help there. With 18GB drives going for less than $1000, and 47GB Elites for about $2500, there are lots of opportunities. This comes out to $56k per terabyte at today's prices. If I was going to do this, here's the general idea of what I would do: 1) Figure out what I really need to buy and support _today_. If the immediate need is only for a quarter of a terabyte of disk space, with another quarter terabyte every three months, then you can make some cost predictions that may show the disk-based system as being less expensive. 2) Build inexpensive, low-end fileservers that talk to a large number of drives (since speed isn't a critical issue). Look at using vinum and the raid5 support, which will mildly increase the number of disks required, but will improve your reliability. It's not clear to me whether or not we support more than 32 drives yet... but even a machine hosting only 30 18GB drives (two 15-drive fast/wide SCSI chains) is 540GB, and 30 47GB drives is 1410GB. If you do the raid5 thing, I would recommend clustering drives in a four- plus-one pattern that gives you three filesystems of 72 or 168GB each per SCSI chain. This effectively limits the amount of data you need to fsck, and the amount of potential loss in case of catastrophic failure. It does drive the price up a bit. You could build a 432GB RAID5-capable array for about $32,000, PC included, but you have to figure out how to house the drives. You may not want to start out using vinum, which is relatively new and untested. 3.0R and the CAM subsystem appear to offer a lot of things that would be handy to you, including the ability to probe new devices on a SCSI bus. My largest filesystems are only in the 108GB and 72GB ranges. They take no time to fsck for a clean boot, but do take a bit for crash recovery. Additional notes: the early Elite 47's had problems. Dunno about the current ones. See the UCB NOW project, they have a terabyte-filesystem project. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 11:10:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02239 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:10:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from silver.gn.iaf.nl (silver.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02222 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wilko@yedi.iaf.nl) Received: from uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl (osmium.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.12]) by silver.gn.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA13173; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:09:39 +0200 Received: by uni4nn.gn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA25200 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:45:09 +0200 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.8.8/8.6.12) id TAA09498; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199810221735.TAA09498@yedi.iaf.nl> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <362F0ECD.F14673FB@airnet.net> from Kris Kirby at "Oct 22, 98 10:54:05 am" To: kris@airnet.net (Kris Kirby) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem, The Netherlands X-Pgp-Info: PGP public key at 'finger wilko@freefall.freebsd.org' X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As Kris Kirby wrote... > Nick Hibma wrote: > > Let's not forget about the possiblities that might emerge from this. > > > > x servers with lots of PCI slots, exactly for this purpose > > x graphics cards with multiple connectors for monitors on the back > > (they exist, I believe, otherwise it won't take long, now > > windows has multi head support) > > If I'm not mistaken, I believe that we have a problem with PCI bridges. I'd love > to buy a machine with eight PCI slots. I'm afraid I'd overtax the processor > before I have all my toys hooked up. (1 ethernet + 7 video? Whee!!!) > > > And yes it will be slow. But having an extra place to work at for only > > ECU 499.99 including monitor is something one or the other might go for. > > See VAX VMS in the old days. That worked, on a CPU the 'size' of a 486. > > The comparison I like to use is ftp.cdrom.com. If a PPro/200 can shovel out > 435GB a day, imagine what a faster machine could do. Get crazy: Quad PII/400. Hmmmmm. Quad Xeon with FreeBSD? Just saw Jordan H. demonstrate a build of a GENERIC kernel in 45 secs ;-) Cool... Wilko _ ______________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Arnhem, The Netherlands WWW : http://www.tcja.nl ______________________________________________ Powered by FreeBSD __________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 11:13:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA02650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:13:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from awfulhak.org (awfulhak.force9.co.uk [195.166.136.63]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA02597 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from woof.lan.awfulhak.org (brian@woof.lan.awfulhak.org [172.16.0.7]) by awfulhak.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10683; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:13:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@Awfulhak.org) Received: from woof.lan.awfulhak.org (brian@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woof.lan.awfulhak.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12444; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:32:49 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from brian@woof.lan.awfulhak.org) Message-Id: <199810221232.NAA12444@woof.lan.awfulhak.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-users@freebsd-uk.eu.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ppp improvements for dynamic IPs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:32:48 +0100 From: Brian Somers Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ppp has just been updated with some code that should work around the ``first connection'' problem for people running in -auto -alias mode with dynamic IPs. Previously, the program that caused the dial up would never connect although programs started after the dialup is complete would. Now, everything should ``just work''. I'd be interested in some feedback on this. I've done a limited amount of testing and it seems to work ok.... Cheers. -- Brian , , Don't _EVER_ lose your sense of humour.... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 11:50:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08607 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from whistle.com (s205m131.whistle.com [207.76.205.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08602 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:50:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from archie@whistle.com) Received: (from smap@localhost) by whistle.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA07043; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubba.whistle.com(207.76.205.7) by whistle.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007038; Thu Oct 22 11:49:56 1998 Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.whistle.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id LAA03153; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199810221849.LAA03153@bubba.whistle.com> Subject: Re: [BSD-hackers] ioctl options for networking ? In-Reply-To: from Guilhem Ensuque at "Oct 22, 98 12:45:50 pm" To: guilhem.ensuque@bt-sys.bt.co.uk (Guilhem Ensuque) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Guilhem Ensuque writes: > i am desperately looking for the SIOCSARP, SIOCGARP and SIOCDARP ioctl > options but I can't find them in the file sockio.h. I don't think FreeBSD uses those anymore.. check what the source for /usr/sbin/arp does.. -Archie ___________________________________________________________________________ Archie Cobbs * Whistle Communications, Inc. * http://www.whistle.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 11:53:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA08805 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from callmedia.se (gw.callmedia.se [193.14.252.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08789 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:53:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@callmedia.se) From: stefan@callmedia.se Received: (from smap@localhost) by callmedia.se (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA22987; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:27:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199810221827.UAA22987@callmedia.se> X-Authentication-Warning: gw.callmedia.se: smap set sender to using -f Received: from unknown(192.168.16.25) by gw.callmedia.se via smap (V1.3) id sma022985; Thu Oct 22 20:27:24 1998 Received: by mal-cx.callmedia.se (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA03115; Thu, 22 Oct 98 20:52:45 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 20:52:45 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Time granularity Cc: stefan@callmedia.se Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello Hackers. First: I know this subject (OS)doesn't belong here! Sorry in advance if it causes you inconvenience, but I really need some competent discussion partners. (Sorry) Unfortunately we have some of these horrible SCO 3.2 server(something). (We can't at this moment port that software to FreeBSD. driver stuff) Is there anyone that have any clue on how to get bigger time granularity on SCO 3.2 than hundreds of a second(thousands with CPU time usage)? We need to do very accurate timing in a kind of competition. Is there any library for this kind of stuff out there? (With FreeBSD's timing functionality and virtual clocks there is no problem, I know,) Many thanks in advance / --- Stefan Lindgren family.lindgren@usa.net p: +46 709 220 770 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 11:58:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA09315 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:58:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09308 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:57:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id MAA17321; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:57:15 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810221857.MAA17321@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: bad sectors In-Reply-To: <362EC58B.8137D73@pchost.com> from kyle at "Oct 22, 98 03:41:32 pm" To: kyle@pchost.com (kyle) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG kyle wrote... > Hi, > > I have some bad sectors on my hard drive and need to find out where they > are. > Is anyone able to inform me to where I am able to get this information > and how I can get it. If you have SCSI disks and a CAM system, you can do the following: camcontrol defects -n da -u 1 -f phys -G To see the grown defect list for da1. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 12:27:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14013 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:27:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from TomQNX.tomqnx.com (cpu2745.adsl.bellglobal.com [207.236.55.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14001 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:27:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tom@tomqnx.com) Received: by TomQNX.tomqnx.com (Smail3.2 #1) id m0zWQOB-00086jC; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: From: tom@tomqnx.com (Tom Torrance at home) Subject: Corrupted source tree??? To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I have been having difficulty doing a make world for the past week. Everything works fine until it starts to work on the groff stuff, when it fails - unable to find the files under /usr/src/contrib/groff/include, where /usr/src is a symlink to /ccd/src. I even deleted my entire source tree and refreshed it from cvsup.freebsd.org. Any hints as to how I should proceed would be greatly appreciated. Here follows the relevant portion of the 'make world' listing. cd /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make depend && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make -DNOINFO -DNOMAN -DNOPROFILE all && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make -DNOINFO -DNOMAN -DNOPROFILE -B install cleandir obj rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/dfa.c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/grep.c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/getopt.c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/kwset.c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/obstack.c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/search.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/dfa.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/grep.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/getopt.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/kwset.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/obstack.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -c /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep/search.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -DGREP -DHAVE_STRING_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_GETPAGESIZE=1 -DHAVE_MEMCHR=1 -DHAVE_STRERROR=1 -DHAVE_VALLOC=1 -DHAVE_MMAP=1 -DHAVE_FTS=1 -I/usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/include -o grep dfa.o grep.o getopt.o kwset.o obstack.o search.o -lgnuregex install -c -s -o bin -g bin -m 555 grep /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/egrep -> /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/grep /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/fgrep -> /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/grep /usr/obj/ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep created for /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/grep cd /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make depend && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make -DNOINFO -DNOMAN -DNOPROFILE all && /usr/obj/ccd/src/tmp/usr/bin/make -DNOINFO -DNOMAN -DNOPROFILE -B install cleandir obj ===> libdriver rm -f .depend mkdep -f .depend -a /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/input.cc /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/printer.cc /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/input.cc:21: driver.h: No such file or directory /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/input.cc:22: device.h: No such file or directory /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/input.cc:23: cset.h: No such file or directory /ccd/src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/libdriver/../../../../contrib/groff/libdriver/printer.cc:21: driver.h: No such file or directory mkdep: compile failed *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. *** Error code 1 Stop. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 12:37:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA15852 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:37:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tarsier.domain.net (tarsier.domain.net [204.107.140.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA15847 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:36:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@tarsier.domain.net) Received: (from eric@localhost) by tarsier.domain.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA02535; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981022123629.27495@tarsier.domain.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:36:29 -0700 From: eric To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79e Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm seeing what may be a CAM problem with 3.0-release. I am using an Adaptec 2940UW: ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs And a st34371w disk: da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da0: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) It seems more or less happy until a lot of traffic is generated, at which point it hangs and logs errors (for that drive only) -- for example "du -s /mnt" will do it quite repeatably. When it hangs, it sounds as if the disk is repeatedly seeking with about a 1 second period. Here is what it logs: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Data-In phase. SEQADDR == 0x10f SCSIRATE == 0x88 (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Command phase. SEQADDR == 0x153 SCSIRATE == 0x88 (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Message-In phase. SEQADDR == 0x153 SCSIRATE == 0x88 [...] If i reboot FreeBSD-2.2.6, this does not happen at all. any ideas? eric To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 12:53:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA18748 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:53:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA18728 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:53:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id NAA17707; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:52:16 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810221952.NAA17707@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-Reply-To: <199810221320.XAA07482@mail.aussie.org> from Hallam Oaks at "Oct 22, 98 11:19:28 pm" To: mlnn4@oaks.com.au Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hallam Oaks wrote... > G'Day; > > I've a few things I'd like, If I may, to get opinions on. > > My current client (I'm a contractor) hired me to provide them with some > assistance on a project that involves the digitising and non-real-time > satellite transmission of television commercials. As part of this project, > they want to store about 30,000 ads (they call them 'dubs') online for > retrieval in a digital form. > > We estimate that we will need approximately 3-4 terabytes of storage to > achieve this aim. Sounds interesting. :) [ ... ] One thing you might want to take a look at is a Pluto VideoSpace box. Check out: http://www.plutotech.com The largest VideoSpace boxes can currently hold 4 hours of standard def video. It may or may not be what you're looking for, but it does run FreeBSD. :) (yes, I work for them...) > Needless to say I'm going to put my preferred solution as FreeBSD-based. > Some of the criteria that I can't yet answer and would like feedback on > are these - > > o is FreeBSD able to be made to recognise a new SCSI drive that wasn't > present on boot ? i.e. a new drive is plugged into the hot bays. can > it be recognised, formatted, and mounted by manual intervention ? > > o ditto if a drive fries. can it be taken out without the kernel getting > too upset ? These two are much easier to do under CAM. It's also much more robust under CAM. > o is it feasable to automatically umount and spin down drives that > haven't been accessed for a day or so ? typically, the older data > (> 6 months) will be rarely, if ever, accessed before its two-year > span expires and it's erased. Yes. There were some CAM bugs that prevented this from working, but they were fixed prior to 3.0 release. You can probably just spin the disk down, and when someone wants data from it, they can just access the data and the disk will be automatically spun up. > o would the boot time of a system be dramatically prolonged by it having > 500 or so gigabytes of SCSI drives hanging off its backside ? (I'm > referring to a normal boot, with the drives having been properly > unmounted. I don't even want to THINK about waiting on an fsck of 500 > gigs of unclean disk ;). OTOH the size of the files is quite large, so > it'd be feasable to use huge nodes. Well, if you're talking about a CAM system, it really depends on whether the drives are spun up or not. CAM will spin up 4 at a time (by default, it's tuneable) and the boot probably won't happen until they're all spun up. If the drives are already spinning, the boot will happen quite fast. All busses are probed in parallel on a CAM system, so instead of the boot time being (number of busses) * (bus settle delay) as it was with the old SCSI code, it's now just (bus settle delay). > I've no particular objection to a reboot if need be to add/remove a > drive, but if it took more than, say, 10 minutes, it'd be an issue I'd > have to tackle with management. > > o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM > units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions > about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that > drive family ? I don't know much about them, but I'd be more comfortable going with some of their 3.5" drives (barracuda or cheetah). IBM is another good drive vendor. Another thing is that (I think) they're phasing those drives out of production. I think that's the last in their line of 5.25" full height disks. > o does anyone have an opinion as to whether it's safe to assume that > drive prices will continue to fall as they have done over the past > two years ? I think it's a reasonably safe assumption. > I guess my main interest, despite the above questions, is really to hear > if others think this is a realistic goal to be aiming for, and if others- > who-have-gone-before-me have struck major problems doing the same (or a > similar) thing. Satoshi is probably the guy to ask. As someone else pointed out, he's one of the people behind the tertiary disk project at Berkeley. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 12:56:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA19385 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:56:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hmsa.com (hmsa.com [205.172.19.178]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA19377 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tyoung@hmsa.com) Received: from [10.1.73.41] by hmsa.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA14297; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:51:30 -1000 Message-Id: <362F8D9C.ACDA3BF0@hmsa.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:55:08 -1000 From: Terrance Young X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (WinNT; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Hallam Oaks Cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm References: <199810221320.XAA07482@mail.aussie.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi... Hallam Oaks wrote: > G'Day; > > I've a few things I'd like, If I may, to get opinions on. ok... my opinions and semi-thoughts :-) below... <...Snip.. Ouch that was my fingers!..> > With current hard drive prices, I estimate we can put together a one > terabyte disk farm for about US$60k (cost of media only), spread across > several machines using hot swappable drive bays and dual SCSI buses per > machine. We don't intend to use RAID unless there's strong advantages to > it (I don't know a whole lot about it). We don't need striping or > replication. I think a Raid would serve you better in up time and reliabilty. RAID is a bit slower but has good error correction and fault tolerance. > > One advantage of doing it via a distributed farm (I theorise) is that if > one drive fries or one machine self-destructs, at least the rest of the > system will still be working. A fried drive can be restored from one of > the 25gb AIT backup tapes made of all the dubs. Humm.. Depends on how you do it I suppose... but if not raid on the data drives then at least mirroring on the OS drives.. and keep the data drives separate... (where's my coffee...) <...Snip! humm I seem to be losing fingers...> > > Needless to say I'm going to put my preferred solution as FreeBSD-based. > Some of the criteria that I can't yet answer and would like feedback on > are these - My Preferred choice ;-) > > o is FreeBSD able to be made to recognise a new SCSI drive that wasn't > present on boot ? i.e. a new drive is plugged into the hot bays. can > it be recognised, formatted, and mounted by manual intervention ? Sure! no prob... if you had a Hot Swap chassis... > o ditto if a drive fries. can it be taken out without the kernel getting > too upset ? Yup! as long as its in a hot swap chassis and not the OS mirrored drive hehe.. then I think you might have slight problems but it will come back up on the one good drive (how bad I'm not sure, hasn't happened to me yet *knocks on wood*).. > o is it feasable to automatically umount and spin down drives that > haven't been accessed for a day or so ? typically, the older data > (> 6 months) will be rarely, if ever, accessed before its two-year > span expires and it's erased. Humm...yup, you can spin it down when not accessing it when you use it again it might give you a timeout error which I think is sort of normal at least until the drive spins back up... > o would the boot time of a system be dramatically prolonged by it having > 500 or so gigabytes of SCSI drives hanging off its backside ? (I'm > referring to a normal boot, with the drives having been properly > unmounted. I don't even want to THINK about waiting on an fsck of 500 > gigs of unclean disk ;). OTOH the size of the files is quite large, so > it'd be feasable to use huge nodes. Yuck, Wash it :-) don't want to touch unclean disks hehe... But as to booting up a bit longer due to the amout of drives.. shouldn't be too unbearable... > I've no particular objection to a reboot if need be to add/remove a > drive, but if it took more than, say, 10 minutes, it'd be an issue I'd > have to tackle with management. Hehe... How fast can you change Disks? I think it would be at least a bit longer to powerdown, change drive and power up with 500 gigs...(go Hot Swap! less headaches and you don't need Pit Crew speed hehe...) > o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM > units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions > about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that > drive family ? Personally I get wary of Very Large Drives still... (hope the room is real cool) I'm still not too sure of the reliability yet...we'll see...the largest we have are 14 gig drives seems to be holding up so far... but 47 gig humm... does anyone you know been using those for a while (at least as long as they been out)? <...Snip... whew! missed my fingers that time!...> > I guess my main interest, despite the above questions, is really to hear > if others think this is a realistic goal to be aiming for, and if others- > who-have-gone-before-me have struck major problems doing the same (or a > similar) thing. I think its feasable If you aren't too worried about your data if you aren't going the raid route but at least go with hot swappable saves some headache... Spinning down the drives I heard some various problems early on in '97 about that but not too much lately... Terrance Damn what a little research can do.. :-) My few opinions... and fingers... :-) not to be taken with water or used when operating a WinDOZE machine :-) (Hey why'd they give me that NT workstation for...must be to practice rebooting...) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA20145 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20131 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:00:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id NAA17781; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:58:59 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810221958.NAA17781@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w In-Reply-To: <19981022123629.27495@tarsier.domain.net> from eric at "Oct 22, 98 12:36:29 pm" To: eric@tarsier.domain.net (eric) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eric wrote... > I'm seeing what may be a CAM problem with 3.0-release. > > I am using an Adaptec 2940UW: > > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI > Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > > And a st34371w disk: > > da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 > da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da0: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) > > > It seems more or less happy until a lot of traffic is generated, at which point > it hangs and logs errors (for that drive only) -- for example "du -s /mnt" will > do it quite repeatably. When it hangs, it sounds as if the disk is repeatedly > seeking with about a 1 second period. Here is what it logs: > > (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Data-In phase. > SEQADDR == 0x10f > SCSIRATE == 0x88 > (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Command phase. > SEQADDR == 0x153 > SCSIRATE == 0x88 > (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): parity error during Message-In phase. > SEQADDR == 0x153 > SCSIRATE == 0x88 > [...] > > If i reboot FreeBSD-2.2.6, this does not happen at all. > > any ideas? This looks like a cabling or possibly a termination problem. The reason it happens under 3.0, but not under 2.2.6 is that 2.2.6 only allowed 4 transactions at a time to go to the disk. So the bus traffic is much lighter. Under CAM, we allow as many transactions as the disk will handle. In your case, that's probably 63. So, check your cabling and termination. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:19:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23536 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:19:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23501 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA01851; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:18:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <362F92CB.F0C5E15A@tdx.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:17:15 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" CC: eric , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w References: <199810221958.NAA17781@panzer.plutotech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > > I am using an Adaptec 2940UW: > > > > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 > > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI > > Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > > > > And a st34371w disk: > da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 > da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da0: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) I have three of those drives, mine ID a little differently though... da4 at ahc2 bus 0 target 8 lun 0 da4: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device da4: 20.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit) da4: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) Your firmware seems to be a little older than mine - but the drive also seems to be saying it will do 40.0MB/s transfers? - The one I have is Wide, but not Ultra wide... Does yours say in the spec it's UltraWide? (I guess they may have updated the drive and kept the same ID, i.e. ST34371W)... I also get problems if I leave Tagged Command Queuing enabled, there again I also seen to be getting problems with it completely disabled, but not as many (and nothing sadly relating to Parity)... Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:20:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA23658 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:20:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA23486; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:19:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu) Received: from danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (root@danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu [128.151.84.217]) by danberlin.resnet.rochester.edu (8.9.1a+3.1W/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id OAA15170; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:59:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:59:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Berlin To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Our CardBus support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG What is the status of cardbus support in -current. I notice pcic_p.c in the pci dir, and it appears to have defines for TI CardBus controllers, and one other type. Do the TI's actually work? I have a TI1250 in my laptop, and from looking at the linux PCMCIA CS stuff, they just treat it like an 113x, except for one small thing to determine what mode it is in. I tried a quick hack, and added the device ID into pcic_p.h, and the approriate stuff in pcic_p.c, and it no work (right now i've got it complaining about intr_connect failing for a few IRQ's). I'll try it with two other CardBus cards, and i just tried it with a 3C589, and it noticed none of them. So is this my stupidity, or is our cardbus support not up to snuff yet, and if this is the case, is anyone working on it? If not, i guess i'll give it a whirl. Any clue how much work it would take? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:42:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26913 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:42:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26900 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:42:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id OAA18094; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:41:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810222041.OAA18094@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w In-Reply-To: <362F92CB.F0C5E15A@tdx.co.uk> from Karl Pielorz at "Oct 22, 98 09:17:15 pm" To: kpielorz@tdx.co.uk (Karl Pielorz) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Cc: eric@tarsier.domain.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Karl Pielorz wrote... > > > "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > > > > I am using an Adaptec 2940UW: > > > > > > ahc0: rev 0x00 int a irq 12 on pci0.9.0 > > > ahc0: aic7880 Wide Channel A, SCSI > > > Id=7, 16/255 SCBs > > > > > > And a st34371w disk: > > da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 > > da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > > da0: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit), Tagged > Queueing Enabled > > da0: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) > > I have three of those drives, mine ID a little differently though... > > da4 at ahc2 bus 0 target 8 lun 0 > da4: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > da4: 20.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit) > da4: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) > > Your firmware seems to be a little older than mine - but the drive also > seems to be saying it will do 40.0MB/s transfers? - The one I have is Wide, > but not Ultra wide... Does yours say in the spec it's UltraWide? (I guess > they may have updated the drive and kept the same ID, i.e. ST34371W)... His firmware looks newer than yours. 0280 > 0202. > I also get problems if I leave Tagged Command Queuing enabled, there again I > also seen to be getting problems with it completely disabled, but not as > many (and nothing sadly relating to Parity)... I think his problem is different than the one you have. Yours looks like a firmware bug, his looks like a cabling problem. It is of course possible that he'll run into a firmware bug once he fixes his cabling problem. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:43:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA27041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:43:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27019; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00763; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:47:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222047.NAA00763@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:52:04 +0200." <199810220852.KAA22979@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:47:58 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id NAA27022 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In reply to Nick Hibma who wrote: > > > > USB has the ability to accept more than one keyboard and more than one > > mouse. I would like to be able to boot a machine and have login prompts > > appear on multiple screens: A proper multi-user system. > > Why on earth would one want that ?? With todays PC prices one can easily > afford multible machines, especially when you have to buy the monitor & > keyboard for each anyways. > > > P.S.: If you fancy writing a device driver for USB, we could use someone > > to do a mouse, keyboard, printer and HID driver. > > Given the right HW I could help out... Tell you what; on the first commit of the new ATA driver, FTL will send you a complete USB starter kit. Sound reasonable? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 13:58:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA29190 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:58:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from alcanet.com.au (border.alcanet.com.au [203.62.196.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29171 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:58:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter.jeremy@auss2.alcatel.com.au) Received: by border.alcanet.com.au id <40321>; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:57:20 +1000 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:57:50 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy Subject: Re: Reading CMOS date values To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Message-Id: <98Oct23.065720est.40321@border.alcanet.com.au> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:02:37 +0200 (CEST), Reinier Bezuidenhout wrote: >I'd like to read the CMOS values for the day, hour and minutes. Note that the CMOS clock will normally be kept in UTC, so the HMS that you read will not be local time. Also, the CMOS clock can drift WRT the system clock (especially if you use adjtime), so the time you read from the CMOS clock may be different to the kernel TOD clock. >I'd like to get the day of the week, hour and minutes without >having to call microtime and then convert the values. Assuming you want UTC, this is all quite simple - just some divisions and modulos. The difficulties come when you want local time and/or year/month/day or day of year. The following code fragment should work: extern volatile struct timeval time; int sec, minute, hour; int dow; /* 0[Sunday] .. 6[Saturday] */ { long now = time.tv_sec; sec = now % 60; now /= 60; min = now % 60; now /= 60; hour = now % 24; now /= 24; dow = (now + 4) % 7; /* 1970-JAN-01 is Thursday == 4 */ } Note that the above code is likely to be _faster_ than reading the RTC on most systems (because the RTC is sitting on the abyssmally slow ISA bus and needs 2 I/O instructions per field). >Has anyone done this before ?? Some time ago, I wrote a device driver that provided access to the CMOS clock and RAM. I can dig it out over the weekend if there's sufficient interest. Peter -- Peter Jeremy (VK2PJ) peter.jeremy@alcatel.com.au Alcatel Australia Limited 41 Mandible St Phone: +61 2 9690 5019 ALEXANDRIA NSW 2015 Fax: +61 2 9690 5247 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00552 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:04:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00504 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:03:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from faber@ISI.EDU) Received: from ISI.EDU (vex-e.isi.edu [128.9.160.240]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA19358; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810222103.OAA19358@tnt.isi.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Daniel Berlin Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Our CardBus support In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:59:31 EDT." X-Url: http://www.isi.edu/~faber Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:03:19 -0700 From: Ted Faber Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Daniel Berlin wrote: >What is the status of cardbus support in -current. >I notice pcic_p.c in the pci dir, and it appears to have defines for TI >CardBus controllers, and one other type. >Do the TI's actually work? The Cirrus Logic PD6832 CardBus Adapter works in legacy PCMCIA mode. If you're willing to test the TI code I write, I'm happy to try to write you some. I just plain don't have a box to test on. Although I may beg off until my 3.0 CDROM shows up in the mail and I successfully upgrade. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ted Faber faber@isi.edu USC/ISI Computer Scientist http://www.isi.edu/~faber (310) 822-1511 x190 PGP Key: http://www.isi.edu/~faber/pubkey.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNi+dlob4eisfQ5rpAQHkhwP/bGrIB755c0p8Bt6SqrRX+PPnpc0ol5Sl oovIspuDLasymUF6CPqM+CNrZFhz2H6Rx4T/12vAyNuWWOQROjv6XH0WQE295VbV rnMKNDlqTH1dQSP0ff6yDLWhqX95dwCT+I3y3Vg963e2nqBkVZTem4lM9BUlM+Rd Tn5eeoDm8gM= =pd8r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA00834 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:06:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00787 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02002; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:05:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <362F9DC4.C8CC35CB@tdx.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:04:04 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Kenneth D. Merry" CC: eric@tarsier.domain.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w References: <199810222041.OAA18094@panzer.plutotech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Kenneth D. Merry" wrote: > His firmware looks newer than yours. 0280 > 0202. Yes, that's what meant to say... ;-) (It's been one of those days)... > I think his problem is different than the one you have. Yours looks like a > firmware bug, his looks like a cabling problem. It is of course possible > that he'll run into a firmware bug once he fixes his cabling problem. Either way (i.e. if Eric's drive work or not work) I guess it helps me out... :-) (If you can let me know whether they work or not in the end Eric!) Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:36:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA04803 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA04787 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:36:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 9890 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Oct 1998 21:37:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19981022233738.J1126@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:37:38 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad sectors Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <362EC58B.8137D73@pchost.com> <199810221857.MAA17321@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <199810221857.MAA17321@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:57:15PM -0600 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:57:15PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > If you have SCSI disks and a CAM system, you can do the following: > camcontrol defects -n da -u 1 -f phys -G > To see the grown defect list for da1. hmmm. just jumping in ... paert# uname -a FreeBSD paert.tse-online.de 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Oct 20 09:17:27 CEST 1998 toor@paert.tse-online.de:/home/src/sys/compile/ABWS-SMP i386 paert# camcontrol defects -n da -u 1 -f phys -G error reading defect list: Input/output error from dmesg: da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled da1: 8715MB (17850000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1111C) any hints? is it my fault? the drive's fault? Regards, Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:45:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06050 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:45:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06023; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:45:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01146; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222149.OAA01146@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:45:31 PDT." <199810221745.KAA29913@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:49:07 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > It seems that ld in 3.0-RELEASE changed its behaving. Actually, it was completely replaced, so you could say it changed, yes. > In loading a dynamic library, it loads entire library regardless > if objects are used or not. I do not know if this is a bug or intended > goal, but it does not make sense to build libraries at this point. I'm sorry, but you're not making yourself very clear here. Could you explain a little more? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:48:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA06613 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:48:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lambic.physics.montana.edu (lambic.physics.montana.edu [153.90.192.128]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06588 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Received: from localhost (handy@localhost) by lambic.physics.montana.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10335; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:46:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Brian Handy To: Terrance Young cc: Hallam Oaks , "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-Reply-To: <362F8D9C.ACDA3BF0@hmsa.com> Message-ID: X-files: The truth is out there MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM >> units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions >> about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that >> drive family ? > >Personally I get wary of Very Large Drives still... (hope the room is >real cool) I'm still not too sure of the reliability yet...we'll >see...the largest we have are 14 gig drives seems to be holding up so >far... but 47 gig humm... does anyone you know been using those for a >while (at least as long as they been out)? I have friends in the image analysis business (read: solar physics) that use lots of drives pretty hard, and the 47GB drives haven't yet panned out very well, lots of failures.. In fact, I believe Seagate has discontinued that drive, along with the 23GB drive that preceeded it. I have some 18GB drive that are working, but we don't have a large enough set to say anything statistical about them. Good luck... Brian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 14:57:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA07912 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:57:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tarsier.domain.net (tarsier.domain.net [204.107.140.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA07905 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:57:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eric@tarsier.domain.net) Received: (from eric@localhost) by tarsier.domain.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA02818; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981022145640.55552@tarsier.domain.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:56:40 -0700 From: eric To: Karl Pielorz Cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w References: <199810221958.NAA17781@panzer.plutotech.com> <362F92CB.F0C5E15A@tdx.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.79e In-Reply-To: <362F92CB.F0C5E15A@tdx.co.uk>; from Karl Pielorz on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:17:15PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:17:15PM +0100, Karl Pielorz wrote: > I have three of those drives, mine ID a little differently though... > > da4 at ahc2 bus 0 target 8 lun 0 > da4: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > da4: 20.0MB/s transfers (10.0MHz, offset 8, 16bit) > da4: 4148MB (8496960 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 528C) > > Your firmware seems to be a little older than mine - but the drive also > seems to be saying it will do 40.0MB/s transfers? - The one I have is Wide, > but not Ultra wide... Does yours say in the spec it's UltraWide? (I guess > they may have updated the drive and kept the same ID, i.e. ST34371W)... The drive will do ultra-wide according to the seagate documentation (http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/st34371w.shtml) but you need a 2940uw to be willing to negotiate 40MB/s transfers, and even then you have to specifically turn on ultra negotiation on the adapter, because the default behavior is to _not_ try to negotiate it. I suppose it's possible that that's because it's not reliable at 40MB/s, but I can't imagine nobody else is using such a common scsi adapter with ultra disks. This drive is a lot slower with 40MB/s disabled - iozone writes clock at ~4800KB/sec without and ~8900KB/sec with. It's possible my cabling/termination is faulty, although there's nothing else on the bus except the host adapter and the st34371w drive. It may be that the drive's internal termination is broken, or that the cable is flaky, though. I will at least try replacing the cable and using an external terminator, to see if that helps. I'll let you know if I start seeing problems with tagged command queueing once i fix that. Incidentally, does option "FAILSAFE" still disable t.c.q. ? > > I also get problems if I leave Tagged Command Queuing enabled, there again I > also seen to be getting problems with it completely disabled, but not as > many (and nothing sadly relating to Parity)... > > Regards, > > Karl > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ e|a|e|d|c| Eric Volpe p|t|r|o|o| v| |o|t|m| Springfield VA | |l| | | USA | |s| | | http://tarsier.colo.erols.net/Images/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:06:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09569 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:06:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09564 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:06:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id QAA18785; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:06:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810222206.QAA18785@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w In-Reply-To: <19981022145640.55552@tarsier.domain.net> from eric at "Oct 22, 98 02:56:40 pm" To: eric@tarsier.domain.net (eric) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eric wrote... > > Incidentally, does option "FAILSAFE" still disable t.c.q. ? No. Someone else brought it up a few weeks ago, but I think it's a bad idea to do it. FAILSAFE is defined in GENERIC, and if we disable tagged queueing when it's defined, 90% of users will be running with tagged queueing turned off. (and therefore 90% of users will have sucky performance) Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:07:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09609 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09604; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:07:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA07047; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222206.PAA07047@george.lbl.gov> To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > In loading a dynamic library, it loads entire library regardless > > if objects are used or not. I do not know if this is a bug or intended > > goal, but it does not make sense to build libraries at this point. > > I'm sorry, but you're not making yourself very clear here. Could you > explain a little more? Let's say libtest.so containing three (3) files a.c b.c c.c. a.c: a() { printf("a"); } b.c: b() { b_printf("b"); } c.c: c() { c_printf("c"); } make them into regular library libtest.a and shared library libtest.so. creating test file test.c: main() { a(); } cc -o test test.c -ltest on all platforms, this cc will be successfully compiled and linked, but FreeBSD 3.0 complains : libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_b_printf' referenced from text segment libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_c_printf' referenced from text segment However, "cc -o test test.c -static -ltest" is happy when no shared library is used. So, it looks like just for linking shared library. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:09:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA09976 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:09:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from caladan.tdx.co.uk (caladan.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA09868 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:08:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kpielorz@tdx.co.uk) Received: from tdx.co.uk (lorca-tx.tdx.co.uk [195.188.177.242]) by caladan.tdx.co.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA02230; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:07:27 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <362FAC53.A2DE7D16@tdx.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:06:11 +0100 From: Karl Pielorz Organization: TDX - The Digital eXchange X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eric CC: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: possible CAM problem, ahc/st34371w References: <199810221958.NAA17781@panzer.plutotech.com> <362F92CB.F0C5E15A@tdx.co.uk> <19981022145640.55552@tarsier.domain.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eric wrote: > The drive will do ultra-wide according to the seagate documentation > (http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/st34371w.shtml) but you need a 2940uw I didn't know that... ;-) - I have a 2940UW in my -current machine with the drives connected, so I'll give it a go... > It's possible my cabling/termination is faulty, although there's nothing else > on the bus except the host adapter and the st34371w drive. I have the same scenario here, but I have 3 x ST34371's on 1 x AHA 2940 (with an adaptec cable)... > It may be that the > drive's internal termination is broken, or that the cable is flaky, though. I > will at least try replacing the cable and using an external terminator, to see > if that helps. I'll let you know if I start seeing problems with tagged command > queueing once i fix that. > > Incidentally, does option "FAILSAFE" still disable t.c.q. ? I don't think so - I had to edit /sys/cam/cam_xpt.c - you need to add the following to that file (inside the xpt_quirk_table[] block):- { /* Broken tagged queing drive * Reported by: Karl Pielorz */ { T_DIRECT, SIP_MEDIA_FIXED, "SEAGATE", "ST34371W*", "*" }, /*quirks*/0, /*mintags*/0, /*maxtags*/0 } The above will disable tagged-command queing for any ST3471W's on your bus once you recompile the kernel)... If you get stuck - mail me and I'll send you the file... After seeing Ken's comments - are problems may _not_ be related, but I'd like to see if we can come up with anything between us - as we both have the same drive, the same controller - and we both have problems... This is starting to get a bit off-topic - we can either move to say -hardware, or just mail each other until we have some more / firm details if you want... Regards, Karl To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:22:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA11838 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:22:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA11833 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05805; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:21:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10727; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17059; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:21:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810222221.PAA17059@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:21:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth "Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive?" (Oct 8, 11:06am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 8, 11:06am, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: } Subject: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? } They're a differential SCSI device, rather large in size and run to about } 15-20GB. We use them here for seismic data. On a related note, what } differential SCSI controllers have people had luck with? My impression is that seismic data is typically recorded with very large record sizes (like a megabyte?). I think the current limit in FreeBSD is 64K. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:37:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13653 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13643; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:36:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA01466; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:40:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222240.PAA01466@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: jdp@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:06:50 PDT." <199810222206.PAA07047@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:40:38 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I didn't notice you'd copied this to -bugs. It's probably not warranted there. > > > In loading a dynamic library, it loads entire library regardless > > > if objects are used or not. I do not know if this is a bug or intended > > > goal, but it does not make sense to build libraries at this point. > > > > I'm sorry, but you're not making yourself very clear here. Could you > > explain a little more? > > Let's say libtest.so containing three (3) files a.c b.c c.c. > a.c: > a() { printf("a"); } > > b.c: > b() { b_printf("b"); } > > c.c: > c() { c_printf("c"); } > > make them into regular library libtest.a and shared library libtest.so. > > creating test file test.c: > > main() > { > a(); > } > > cc -o test test.c -ltest > > on all platforms, this cc will be successfully compiled and linked, > but FreeBSD 3.0 complains : When you say "on all platforms", which one(s) have you tested? I ask simply because under 3.0 we are using the GNU Binutils, so this would appear to be either optional behaviour, or a bug that we might have introduced. > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_b_printf' referenced from text segment > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_c_printf' referenced from text segment > > However, "cc -o test test.c -static -ltest" is happy when no shared library > is used. > > So, it looks like just for linking shared library. This would be one for Mr Binutils. John? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14011 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14003 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06077; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11009; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA17114; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810222237.PAA17114@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: Kirk McKusick "Re: softupdates and sync" (Oct 19, 8:42pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Kirk McKusick , dag-erli@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: softupdates and sync Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 19, 8:42pm, Kirk McKusick wrote: } Subject: Re: softupdates and sync } The sync system call goes through all the mounted filesystems } calling VFS_SYNC. In the case of UFS, this gets us to ffs_sync } which walks the vnode list doing VOP_FSYNC with MNT_NOWAIT set. } VOP_FSYNC will walk the dirty list associated with the vnode doing } bawrite (or bdwrite/vfs_bio_awrite if B_CLUSTEROK is set). I } suspect that the problem has to do with the interaction with the } new VM's system desire to dissolve buffers, leaving the dirty page } identified only in the page cache. Thus it is not found by the } above sequence of events. It is not until the unmount occurs that } the VM system flushes out the dirty pages associated with the mount } point. I wonder if this is related to: On Oct 14, 5:06pm, Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= wrote: } Subject: SoftUpdates anomaly: what happens when you 'mount -u -o ro /usr'? } I woke up to find my nightly doc build had failed due to a full /usr } partition. It's a 256MB partition with 160MB of data on it, so there } had to be a catch somewhere. I ran 'fsck -n' which revealed 13,500 } unreferenced files. } } I got a little scared and fsck'ed all my other file systems. Only one } had errors: /mp3 (where I keep my MP3 archive). } } Both /usr and /mp3 were supposedly clean. I had a power outage a } couple of days ago and fsck -p at bootup revealed nothing, which isn't } surprising since they're usually mounted ro so they were marked as } clean. } } /mp3 *may* have been hit by the fsck bug since it's "old enough", but } /usr was newfs'ed after it had gone totally bananas (remember the } problems I had with my streamer timing out during 'mt fsf'? That was } when I restored /usr after newfs'ing it). At the time I thought it had } been hit by the fsck bug which had just been fixed. } } I thought a little more about it and found that /usr and /mp3 had one } thing in common: they're both usually mounted ro, but I occasionally } mount them rw for specific thing (make installworld, building the } docs, dumping a CD). To take installworld as an example, what I do is: } } # cd /usr/src } # mount -u -o rw /usr } # make installworld } # mount -u -o ro /usr } } (I have a script which does this of course) } } Now looking through the fsck output (I scripted it) it seems that the } unreferenced files were mostly binaries, and I bet if I looked closer } I'd find out the mtimes are consistent with days I've run make world. } What's more, I'm not missing any files; my bet is that the } unreferenced files are files which have been deleted (replaced) by } installworld. They're unreferenced because they were unlinked, but for } some reason they were never freed. I think somebody with more fs } experience than I have should take a look at what happens to a } softupdates fs when it is switched from rw to ro. It seems obvious to } me that pending writes should be flushed; it also appears that this } doesn't actually happen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:40:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA14227 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com [206.27.167.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14218 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA28171; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:36:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:36:50 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: conrads@neosoft.com Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. From: Conrad Sabatier To: Jamie Howard Subject: RE: Best upgrade path to 3.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 19-Oct-98 Jamie Howard wrote: > This is probably a newbie question, but I have never faced this: > > I have a 2.2.7-STABLE system and just CVSupped to 3.0. Now, what would be > the proper upgrade procedure? The few docs lying around suggest that this > will be very painful because of the ELF conversion. Is this so? What do > I do to get around it? Painful? Not at all, unless you're the impatient type. :-) I just did the same a few days ago with no problems. # cd /usr/src # make aout-to-elf-build # make aout-to-elf-install (this will also build a new generic kernel) After this, you'll just need to update your /etc stuff and you're in business. Good luck. -- Conrad Sabatier Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 15:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA16582 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:54:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from plaidsocks.com (c35486-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.1.70.247]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16565 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:54:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@csudsu.com) Received: from localhost (stefan@localhost) by plaidsocks.com (8.8.8/1.3.2) with SMTP id PAA15849; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:52:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stefan@csudsu.com) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:52:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Stefan Molnar X-Sender: stefan@c35486-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com To: Terrance Young cc: Hallam Oaks , "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-Reply-To: <362F8D9C.ACDA3BF0@hmsa.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Goto http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td/td.html to see what Berkeley did on something like this. They user FreeBSD 3.0 current http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/Td/arch.html On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Terrance Young wrote: > Hi... > > Hallam Oaks wrote: > > > G'Day; > > > > I've a few things I'd like, If I may, to get opinions on. > > ok... my opinions and semi-thoughts :-) below... > > <...Snip.. Ouch that was my fingers!..> > > > With current hard drive prices, I estimate we can put together a one > > terabyte disk farm for about US$60k (cost of media only), spread across > > several machines using hot swappable drive bays and dual SCSI buses per > > machine. We don't intend to use RAID unless there's strong advantages to > > it (I don't know a whole lot about it). We don't need striping or > > replication. > > I think a Raid would serve you better in up time and reliabilty. > RAID is a bit slower but has good error correction and fault tolerance. > > > > > One advantage of doing it via a distributed farm (I theorise) is that if > > one drive fries or one machine self-destructs, at least the rest of the > > system will still be working. A fried drive can be restored from one of > > the 25gb AIT backup tapes made of all the dubs. > > Humm.. Depends on how you do it I suppose... > but if not raid on the data drives then at least mirroring on the OS drives.. > and keep the data drives separate... (where's my coffee...) > > <...Snip! humm I seem to be losing fingers...> > > > > > Needless to say I'm going to put my preferred solution as FreeBSD-based. > > Some of the criteria that I can't yet answer and would like feedback on > > are these - > > My Preferred choice ;-) > > > > > o is FreeBSD able to be made to recognise a new SCSI drive that wasn't > > present on boot ? i.e. a new drive is plugged into the hot bays. can > > it be recognised, formatted, and mounted by manual intervention ? > > Sure! no prob... if you had a Hot Swap chassis... > > > o ditto if a drive fries. can it be taken out without the kernel getting > > too upset ? > > Yup! as long as its in a hot swap chassis and not the > OS mirrored drive hehe.. then I think you might have slight problems but it > will come back up on the one good drive (how bad I'm not sure, hasn't happened > to me yet *knocks on wood*).. > > > o is it feasable to automatically umount and spin down drives that > > haven't been accessed for a day or so ? typically, the older data > > (> 6 months) will be rarely, if ever, accessed before its two-year > > span expires and it's erased. > > Humm...yup, you can spin it down when not accessing it when you use it again > it might give you a timeout error which I think is sort of normal at least > until the drive spins back up... > > > o would the boot time of a system be dramatically prolonged by it having > > 500 or so gigabytes of SCSI drives hanging off its backside ? (I'm > > referring to a normal boot, with the drives having been properly > > unmounted. I don't even want to THINK about waiting on an fsck of 500 > > gigs of unclean disk ;). OTOH the size of the files is quite large, so > > it'd be feasable to use huge nodes. > > Yuck, Wash it :-) don't want to touch unclean disks hehe... > But as to booting up a bit longer due to the amout of drives.. > shouldn't be too unbearable... > > > I've no particular objection to a reboot if need be to add/remove a > > drive, but if it took more than, say, 10 minutes, it'd be an issue I'd > > have to tackle with management. > > Hehe... How fast can you change Disks? I think it would be at least a bit > longer to powerdown, change drive and power up with 500 gigs...(go Hot Swap! > less headaches and you don't need Pit Crew speed hehe...) > > > o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM > > units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions > > about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that > > drive family ? > > Personally I get wary of Very Large Drives still... (hope the room is real > cool) > I'm still not too sure of the reliability yet...we'll see...the largest we > have are 14 gig > drives seems to be holding up so far... but 47 gig humm... does anyone you > know been using those for a while (at least as long as they been out)? > > <...Snip... whew! missed my fingers that time!...> > > > I guess my main interest, despite the above questions, is really to hear > > if others think this is a realistic goal to be aiming for, and if others- > > who-have-gone-before-me have struck major problems doing the same (or a > > similar) thing. > > I think its feasable If you aren't too worried about your data if you aren't > going the raid route but at least go with hot swappable saves some headache... > Spinning down the drives I heard some various problems early on in '97 about > that but not too much lately... > > Terrance > > Damn what a little research can do.. :-) > My few opinions... and fingers... :-) not to be taken with water or used when > operating a WinDOZE machine :-) (Hey why'd they give me that NT workstation > for...must be to practice rebooting...) > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:01:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17263 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:01:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17257 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:01:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01620; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:04:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222304.QAA01620@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Hallam Oaks" cc: "freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:19:28 +1000." <199810221320.XAA07482@mail.aussie.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:04:59 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Prior to my arrival two weeks ago, they had been planning to use a > StorageTek Timberwolf library. This box has two DLT drives, a robot arm, > and about 8 terabytes worth of tape slots. > > The requirement is for 24/7 availability, but speed is not an issue. > Provided a dub can be retrieved onto a cache disk within an hour or so of > it being requested from archive they'd be happy. Latency is less of an issue than throughput; I presume the worst-case performance of this solution was taken into account? (load/unload for every dub, seek time, etc.) > With current hard drive prices, I estimate we can put together a one > terabyte disk farm for about US$60k (cost of media only), spread across > several machines using hot swappable drive bays and dual SCSI buses per > machine. We don't intend to use RAID unless there's strong advantages to > it (I don't know a whole lot about it). We don't need striping or > replication. I would be inclined to go with RAID-4 or -5, in order to deal with disk failures in a relatively sensible fashion. It sounds like throughput is actually not very significant, so you could get away with fairly low-end RAID controllers in a low-cost lower-performance configuration. eg. one wide SCSI bus with 15 CMD CRD-5440's gives you 45 SCSI busses and 675 disks. Using 18GB SCSI disks this takes you to 12TB raw capacity, probably a bit under 10GB usable. You may run into cabling density problems, and the single core SCSI bus does give you a single point of failure, but it should give you some feel for the density that's achievable. > One advantage of doing it via a distributed farm (I theorise) is that if > one drive fries or one machine self-destructs, at least the rest of the > system will still be working. A fried drive can be restored from one of > the 25gb AIT backup tapes made of all the dubs. This is actually where using RAID controllers and hot-swap disk arrays will save you enormously; you get notification of disk failures but all you have to do is pull the dead one and put a replacement in, like changing a lightbulb. > Secondly (and this is a major call I'm making), it won't work out cheaper > for our estimated need of three terabytes unless the cost of HDD's keep on > falling. We won't need full capacity until about two years has passed, > meaning that we can start out with only a few hundred gig and scale it as > we go, taking advantage of (hopefully) falling disk prices and increasing > drive sizes. Because bus space is relatively cheap, you can start with smaller drives which are closer to the optimal point on the price/performance curve. > My desire is to push for the farm because I believe it's better. (Going > with the TW would actually be more profitable for me since one of the main > reasons they hired me was to write the software to drive the flipping > thing:). The farm approach using RAID is more reliable. It would also scale much better, and because individual components are easily replaceable (and cheap) your cost of maintenance is likely to be lower. For the TW, you have to factor the maintenance contract and (depending on your downtime profile) having a complete hot spare plus a set of hot spare tapes. > Needless to say I'm going to put my preferred solution as FreeBSD-based. > Some of the criteria that I can't yet answer and would like feedback on > are these - > > o is FreeBSD able to be made to recognise a new SCSI drive that wasn't > present on boot ? i.e. a new drive is plugged into the hot bays. can > it be recognised, formatted, and mounted by manual intervention ? Yes; if you were using eg. the CMD controllers you could add new disks to build a new array, then bring it online without taking the system down. > o ditto if a drive fries. can it be taken out without the kernel getting > too upset ? If it held a mounted filesystem, no. This is a major argument for using a RAID solution either in software (eg. vinum) or hardware. > o is it feasable to automatically umount and spin down drives that > haven't been accessed for a day or so ? typically, the older data > (> 6 months) will be rarely, if ever, accessed before its two-year > span expires and it's erased. You can use the automounter to automatically mount/unmount filesystems as they're accessed. You'd want to talk to the RAID controller vendor about whether their controller will spin idle disks down (you may have to explicitly command the controller to spind them down). > o would the boot time of a system be dramatically prolonged by it having > 500 or so gigabytes of SCSI drives hanging off its backside ? (I'm > referring to a normal boot, with the drives having been properly > unmounted. I don't even want to THINK about waiting on an fsck of 500 > gigs of unclean disk ;). OTOH the size of the files is quite large, so > it'd be feasable to use huge nodes. You would typically mount the filesystems read-only, so they'd never get dirty, so this isn't really an issue. Using large nodes wouldn't be much of a space saving really. > I've no particular objection to a reboot if need be to add/remove a > drive, but if it took more than, say, 10 minutes, it'd be an issue I'd > have to tackle with management. > > o we're thinking of using Seagate Elite 47gb drives. These are 5400 RPM > units (speed isn't an issue to us). Does anyone have any opinions > about these (good/bad/indifferent) or of previous members of that > drive family ? Don't. If speed isn't an issue, go for 5400rpm drives; these are also cheaper. Right now, 5400rpm and around 4GB seems to be the price point. > o does anyone have an opinion as to whether it's safe to assume that > drive prices will continue to fall as they have done over the past > two years ? Has anyone ever predicted anything safely? 8) Good luck; let us know how you get on! -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:02:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA17436 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:02:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA17424; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:02:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA25470; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:31:48 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA00737; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:31:43 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981023083143.C28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:31:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nick Hibma , Luigi Rizzo Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: USB (was: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD) References: <199810220803.JAA11764@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:04:50PM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 12:04:50 +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: >> Speaking of USB: i have read that bus throughput with a single node is >> reported at about 750KB/s, whereas with multiple nodes bus throughput >> falls down very rapidly (because of arbitration etc ?) to 250KB or so. > >> So i would not want a HD on it! > > At max of 1mb/s a second (I can't remember the exact theoretical > maximum, but it should be more than 750Kb/s) you dont' want to have more > than a floppy attached to that port. I've just bought an Epson Stylus 740, which comes with both parallel and USB interfaces. One of the two CDs that come with it include some silly "documentation" (not a word anywhere of the control codes it uses), but it does describe some aspects of the USB interface. It states that it supports a bit rate of 12 Mb/s ("full speed device"). I think this is possibly acceptable for a printer; it's certainly a lot more than a parallel port can handle. It also states that it uses NRZI data encording [sic], and that the driver requires 10 MB of disk space. I wonder how big a kernel would be if they supplied it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:09:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA18601 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (gatekeeper.Alameda.net [207.90.181.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA18594 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ulf@Gatekeeper.Alameda.net) Received: by Gatekeeper.Alameda.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id QAA00732; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:08:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981022160836.B17576@Alameda.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:08:36 -0700 From: Ulf Zimmermann To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: FYI: Compaq ProLiant 1850R success story with 3.0-R Reply-To: ulf@Alameda.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Organization: Alameda Networks, Inc. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just install 3.0-R on a Compaq ProLiant PII-400 with 256MB. The onboard SymBios 876 gets detected as 875 and seems to work nicely. The Netilligent 10/100 cards works nicely with the tl0 driver from Bill Paul. I will try later the SMP, as soon I get a second PII-400 to test with. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-769-2936 Alameda Networks, Inc. | http://www.Alameda.net | Fax#: 510-521-5073 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:10:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19062 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:10:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19048; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:10:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08230; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222309.QAA08230@george.lbl.gov> To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The testing library is ccs which is out there for many years. It has been used for SGI, DEC, SunOS4, Solaris, Solaris x86, FreeBSD 1.x - 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x - 4.0, Linux 2.0.x - 2.1.x. This is the first time failed to link programs under FreeBSD 3.0, so I created simple files a.c b.c c.c for testing. I thought this may be related to -aout options; but after -static flag is suceeded, I believe the problem is directly related to "ld". It is not related to ar or tsort because a b c are very simple files and -static flag for ld will resolve the symbol issue. -Jin > When you say "on all platforms", which one(s) have you tested? I ask > simply because under 3.0 we are using the GNU Binutils, so this would > appear to be either optional behaviour, or a bug that we might have > introduced. > > > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_b_printf' referenced from text segment > > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_c_printf' referenced from text segment > > > > However, "cc -o test test.c -static -ltest" is happy when no shared library > > is used. > > > > So, it looks like just for linking shared library. > > This would be one for Mr Binutils. John? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:10:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19079 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:10:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19074 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:10:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id RAA19256; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:10:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810222310.RAA19256@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: bad sectors In-Reply-To: <19981022233738.J1126@paert.tse-online.de> from Andreas Braukmann at "Oct 22, 98 11:37:38 pm" To: braukmann@tse-online.de (Andreas Braukmann) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andreas Braukmann wrote... > Hi, > > On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 12:57:15PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > > > If you have SCSI disks and a CAM system, you can do the following: > > camcontrol defects -n da -u 1 -f phys -G > > To see the grown defect list for da1. > > hmmm. just jumping in ... > > paert# uname -a > FreeBSD paert.tse-online.de 3.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT #0: Tue Oct 20 09:17:27 CEST 1998 toor@paert.tse-online.de:/home/src/sys/compile/ABWS-SMP i386 > > paert# camcontrol defects -n da -u 1 -f phys -G > error reading defect list: Input/output error > > from dmesg: > da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > da1: 8715MB (17850000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1111C) > > any hints? is it my fault? the drive's fault? Try a different format (the other choices are 'bfi' and 'block'). Some drives don't support all of the different formats. If you specify -v on the command line, you'll get sense information that will tell you why the command is failing. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:19:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20409 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:19:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20401; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:19:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01764; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:22:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222322.QAA01764@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:09:56 PDT." <199810222309.QAA08230@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:22:46 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The testing library is ccs which is out there for many years. > It has been used for SGI, DEC, SunOS4, Solaris, Solaris x86, > FreeBSD 1.x - 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x - 4.0, Linux 2.0.x - 2.1.x. > > This is the first time failed to link programs under FreeBSD 3.0, > so I created simple files a.c b.c c.c for testing. > I thought this may be related to -aout options; but after -static > flag is suceeded, I believe the problem is directly related to "ld". > It is not related to ar or tsort because a b c are very simple files > and -static flag for ld will resolve the symbol issue. Er, hang on a moment. Are you linking with -aout? You didn't show this in your examples. If you use -aout, you're using the old linker, which is (AFAIK) exactly the same as it was in 2.2. > -Jin > > > When you say "on all platforms", which one(s) have you tested? I ask > > simply because under 3.0 we are using the GNU Binutils, so this would > > appear to be either optional behaviour, or a bug that we might have > > introduced. > > > > > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_b_printf' referenced from text segment > > > libtest.so: Undefined symbol '_c_printf' referenced from text segment > > > > > > However, "cc -o test test.c -static -ltest" is happy when no shared library > > > is used. > > > > > > So, it looks like just for linking shared library. > > > > This would be one for Mr Binutils. John? > -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA20786 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:21:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA20774 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:21:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21395; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:20:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810222320.QAA21395@austin.polstra.com> To: Mike Smith cc: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:22:46 PDT." <199810222322.QAA01764@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:20:21 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Er, hang on a moment. Are you linking with -aout? Yes, he is. You can tell by the leading underscores. > If you use -aout, you're using the old linker, which is (AFAIK) > exactly the same as it was in 2.2. That's right. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:24:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21469 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:24:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21457 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:24:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA25566; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:40 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA00794; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981023085339.H28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma Cc: Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810221628.JAA06206@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810221628.JAA06206@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>; from Jason Thorpe on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 09:28:12AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 9:28:12 -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:26:51 +0200 (MET DST) > Nick Hibma wrote: > >> With X it should be possible, but I don't know how. Any pointers would >> be appreciated. In text mode however I am unaware of any possiblities, >> largely lacking probably because of the fact that there are no >> possiblities to connect more than one keyboard and screen anyway at the >> moment. Up to now. > > NetBSD's wscons can handle multiple text displays, keyboards, mice, etc. > > The big problem is crappy PC hardware. If you plop more than one PCI VGA > device in your system, You Lose, because they both attempt to map themselves > in compatibility space so that the BIOS can talk to them. I don't understand if you're intending to say "in some cases". It's certainly not true generally. You can put as many PCI display boards into a machine as will fit, and with the appropriate software you can use them all at the same time. I'm currently using two heads with XI Graphics server, but will migrate to XFree86 as soon as the facility is available (4.0). > Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper > to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory > mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) Hmm. I think this is your proviso. You specifically mean VGA compatibility. Well, yes, if you want a graphics board to conform to a standard which only allows one board, then you can only use one board. But there's more than just a frame buffer if you disable this feature. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:30:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22302 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22296; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08606; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222330.QAA08606@george.lbl.gov> To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > The testing library is ccs which is out there for many years. > > It has been used for SGI, DEC, SunOS4, Solaris, Solaris x86, > > FreeBSD 1.x - 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x - 4.0, Linux 2.0.x - 2.1.x. > > > > This is the first time failed to link programs under FreeBSD 3.0, > > so I created simple files a.c b.c c.c for testing. > > I thought this may be related to -aout options; but after -static > > flag is suceeded, I believe the problem is directly related to "ld". > > It is not related to ar or tsort because a b c are very simple files > > and -static flag for ld will resolve the symbol issue. > > Er, hang on a moment. Are you linking with -aout? You didn't show this > in your examples. If you use -aout, you're using the old linker, which > is (AFAIK) exactly the same as it was in 2.2. No, I did NOT use "-aout". If I use -aout, I got this: ar cr libtest.a `lorder a.o b.o c.o | tsort`; /usr/libexec/elf/nm: a.o: File format not recognized /usr/libexec/elf/nm: b.o: File format not recognized /usr/libexec/elf/nm: c.o: File format not recognized mv libtest.a /usr/local/lib ranlib /usr/local/lib/libtest.a The errors are from lorder, but library was built, and cc worked. Also, I just found another problem for elf/ld that does not use ENV variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH. If -Lsomething is not specified, the elf/ld just look at /usr/lib, regardless what LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to. -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22459 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:32:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22454 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:32:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01865; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930." <19981023085339.H28824@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:05 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper > > to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory > > mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) > > Hmm. I think this is your proviso. You specifically mean VGA > compatibility. Well, yes, if you want a graphics board to conform to > a standard which only allows one board, then you can only use one > board. But there's more than just a frame buffer if you disable this > feature. Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same place as the first. Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to do this. Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:35:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22721 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22707 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA21521; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810222334.QAA21521@austin.polstra.com> To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:10 PDT." <199810222330.QAA08606@george.lbl.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:34:28 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No, I did NOT use "-aout". I don't care what options you used. If the linker complained about an undefined symbol "_b_printf" when its name in C was "b_printf", then you were working with a.out object files. Use "file *.o" and see for yourself. You might also try typing "objformat" to see what it says. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:35:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22788 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22779 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08678; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:34:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222334.QAA08678@george.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Er, hang on a moment. Are you linking with -aout? > > Yes, he is. You can tell by the leading underscores. I may copied wrong lines, and here they are: test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -ltest /usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot open -ltest: No such file or directory test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -L/usr/local/lib -ltest /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `b_printf' /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `c_printf' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:38:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23035 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA22993; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01927; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810222341.QAA01927@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:30:10 PDT." <199810222330.QAA08606@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:41:33 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > The testing library is ccs which is out there for many years. > > > It has been used for SGI, DEC, SunOS4, Solaris, Solaris x86, > > > FreeBSD 1.x - 2.x, BSD/OS 2.x - 4.0, Linux 2.0.x - 2.1.x. > > > > > > This is the first time failed to link programs under FreeBSD 3.0, > > > so I created simple files a.c b.c c.c for testing. > > > I thought this may be related to -aout options; but after -static > > > flag is suceeded, I believe the problem is directly related to "ld". > > > It is not related to ar or tsort because a b c are very simple files > > > and -static flag for ld will resolve the symbol issue. > > > > Er, hang on a moment. Are you linking with -aout? You didn't show this > > in your examples. If you use -aout, you're using the old linker, which > > is (AFAIK) exactly the same as it was in 2.2. > > No, I did NOT use "-aout". If I use -aout, I got this: > > ar cr libtest.a `lorder a.o b.o c.o | tsort`; > /usr/libexec/elf/nm: a.o: File format not recognized > /usr/libexec/elf/nm: b.o: File format not recognized > /usr/libexec/elf/nm: c.o: File format not recognized > mv libtest.a /usr/local/lib > ranlib /usr/local/lib/libtest.a > > The errors are from lorder, but library was built, and cc worked. Ok, you should set OBJFORMAT=aout in the environment to get the "right" behaviour. It would be useful to know if this works. > Also, I just found another problem for elf/ld that does not use ENV > variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH. If -Lsomething is not specified, the elf/ld > just look at /usr/lib, regardless what LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to. Unless I'm mistake, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a runtime, not linktime parameter. Again, we're using the standard binutils linker, so behaviour here should be "standard". -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:38:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23052 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23024 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08736; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222338.QAA08736@george.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > You might also try typing "objformat" to see what it says. test.lbl.gov: objformat /usr/local/lib/libtest.so elf test.lbl.gov: file *o a.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped a.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped b.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped b.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped c.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped c.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:40:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23189 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from knecht.Sendmail.ORG (knecht.sendmail.org [209.31.233.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23184 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:40:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mckusick@flamingo.McKusick.COM) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root@flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by knecht.Sendmail.ORG (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA28824; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19166; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810222254.PAA19166@flamingo.McKusick.COM> To: Don Lewis Subject: Re: softupdates and sync cc: dag-erli@ifi.uio.no, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:38 PDT." <199810222237.PAA17114@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:54:18 -0700 From: Kirk McKusick Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From: Don Lewis Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:37:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: Kirk McKusick "Re: softupdates and sync" (Oct 19, 8:42pm) To: Kirk McKusick , dag-erli@ifi.uio.no Subject: Re: softupdates and sync Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG I wonder if this is related to: On Oct 14, 5:06pm, Dag-Erling C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= wrote: } Subject: SoftUpdates anomaly: what happens when you 'mount -u -o ro /usr'? ... Down-grading to read-only goes through the same process as unmounting. In particular it calls softdep_flushfiles which sync's the filesystem and flushes all the related background jobs from the work queue. If the deleted files had been on the work queue, they would have been flushed. That implies to me that they had not gotten to the work queue. Something very fishy is going on here, because this behavior does not show up in any of the other soft updates ports. My guess is that if you remove a bunch of files, then downgrade the filesystem, and finally run fsck -f (or whatever your option is to force it to run in the face of the clean flag being set), that you will have lost files. You will likely get the same effect if you do an unmount rather than a downgrade. Kirk McKusick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:41:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23249 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lestat.nas.nasa.gov (lestat.nas.nasa.gov [129.99.50.29]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23242 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from thorpej@lestat.nas.nasa.gov) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lestat.nas.nasa.gov (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA09540; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199810222339.QAA09540@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> X-Authentication-Warning: lestat.nas.nasa.gov: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Greg Lehey Cc: Nick Hibma , Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD Reply-To: Jason Thorpe From: Jason Thorpe Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:39:39 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930 Greg Lehey wrote: > I don't understand if you're intending to say "in some cases". It's > certainly not true generally. You can put as many PCI display boards > into a machine as will fit, and with the appropriate software you can > use them all at the same time. I'm currently using two heads with XI > Graphics server, but will migrate to XFree86 as soon as the facility > is available (4.0). In my experience, as soon as the second one goes in, they both attempt to put themselves in ISA VGA compatibility space, and the system refuses to boot. I've tried this w/ N combinations of mainboards and PCI VGA devices. Jason R. Thorpe thorpej@nas.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center Home: +1 408 866 1912 NAS: M/S 258-5 Work: +1 650 604 0935 Moffett Field, CA 94035 Pager: +1 650 940 5942 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 16:51:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA24361 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:51:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA24349; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:51:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA08906; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810222351.QAA08906@george.lbl.gov> To: mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, you should set OBJFORMAT=aout in the environment to get the "right" > behaviour. It would be useful to know if this works. Yup, this may be a solution. Not set but setenv works. test.lbl.gov: set OBJFORMAT=aout test.lbl.gov: make test.lbl.gov: file *o a.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped a.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped b.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped b.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped c.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped c.so: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped test.lbl.gov: !cc cc -o test test.c -ltest /usr/libexec/elf/ld: cannot open -ltest: No such file or directory test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -L/usr/local/lib -ltest /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `b_printf' /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `c_printf' test.lbl.gov: setenv OBJFORMAT aout test.lbl.gov: make ... test.lbl.gov: !fil file *o a.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped a.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped b.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped b.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped c.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped c.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -ltest test.lbl.gov: > > Also, I just found another problem for elf/ld that does not use ENV > > variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH. If -Lsomething is not specified, the elf/ld > > just look at /usr/lib, regardless what LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to. > > Unless I'm mistake, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a runtime, not linktime > parameter. Again, we're using the standard binutils linker, so > behaviour here should be "standard". It is used for both but generally for linktime that is why ldd can report the paths for any user. -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25985 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:06:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25970 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA25754; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:35:13 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA00959; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:35:12 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981023093512.Q28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:35:12 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Mike Smith Cc: Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <19981023085339.H28824@freebie.lemis.com> <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:35:05PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 16:35:05 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >>> Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper >>> to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory >>> mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) >> >> Hmm. I think this is your proviso. You specifically mean VGA >> compatibility. Well, yes, if you want a graphics board to conform to >> a standard which only allows one board, then you can only use one >> board. But there's more than just a frame buffer if you disable this >> feature. > > Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because > the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same > place as the first. Right, but there are ways to disable it. > Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively > trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than > the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to > do this. > > Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI > spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. Hmmm. How would you go about doing it? It would have to be in the BIOS setup, and I can't see anything there that allows it. I suppose you could start up with one video BIOS disabled, and then enable it programmatically during the boot. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:07:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26072 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:07:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26066 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:07:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA25761; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:36:31 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA00967; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:36:30 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981023093630.R28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:36:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Nick Hibma , Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810222339.QAA09540@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810222339.QAA09540@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>; from Jason Thorpe on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:39:39PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 16:39:39 -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930 > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> I don't understand if you're intending to say "in some cases". It's >> certainly not true generally. You can put as many PCI display boards >> into a machine as will fit, and with the appropriate software you can >> use them all at the same time. I'm currently using two heads with XI >> Graphics server, but will migrate to XFree86 as soon as the facility >> is available (4.0). > > In my experience, as soon as the second one goes in, they both attempt > to put themselves in ISA VGA compatibility space, and the system refuses > to boot. > > I've tried this w/ N combinations of mainboards and PCI VGA devices. I've been running multi-headed for 5 years now, and I've always been able to find boards which allow you to disable the BIOS. Granted, they won't run in VGA mode, but who wants 640x480x4? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA26161 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:08:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26156 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:08:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA21806; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:07:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810230007.RAA21806@austin.polstra.com> To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:51:14 PDT." <199810222351.QAA08906@george.lbl.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:07:23 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Also, I just found another problem for elf/ld that does not > > > use ENV variable LD_LIBRARY_PATH. If -Lsomething is not > > > specified, the elf/ld just look at /usr/lib, regardless what > > > LD_LIBRARY_PATH set to. > > > > Unless I'm mistake, LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a runtime, not linktime > > parameter. Again, we're using the standard binutils linker, so > > behaviour here should be "standard". > > It is used for both but generally for linktime that is why ldd can > report the paths for any user. Whether it is used at link time varies from system to system. Under SunOS, it was used at link time. But under Linux, for example, it apparently is not. I say that because they use the same ELF tools we do, and the code simply isn't there to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH at link time. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:18:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27230 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:18:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27225 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:18:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09297; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:18:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810230018.RAA09297@george.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG By setting OBJFORMAT makes most things happy except X11 sad: ... -lm -lX11 /usr/libexec/aout/ld: /usr/lib/libX11.a(): bad magic objformat /usr/lib/libX11.a aout file /usr/lib/libX11.a /usr/lib/libX11.a: symbolic link to ../X11/lib/libX11.a file /usr/X11/lib/libX11.a /usr/X11/lib/libX11.a: current ar archive To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:34:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29012 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29007 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA09461; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810230034.RAA09461@george.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Whether it is used at link time varies from system to system. Under > SunOS, it was used at link time. But under Linux, for example, it > apparently is not. I say that because they use the same ELF tools we > do, and the code simply isn't there to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH at link > time. Can we improve it? LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a UN*X environment variable which is used for all UNIX platforms, but may not for Linux. I think it is not a hard job. Ignore the platforms. Shall we always make things work better and better, but not following some restriction? we want the evolution. Just my two cents. -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 17:41:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA29867 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:41:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from poboxer.pobox.com (port3.prairietech.net [208.141.230.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA29852 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:41:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alk@poboxer.pobox.com) Received: (from alk@localhost) by poboxer.pobox.com (8.9.1/8.7.3) id TAA21244; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:40:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Tony Kimball MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:40:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Face: O9M"E%K;(f-Go/XDxL+pCxI5*gr[=FN@Y`cl1.Tn Reply-To: anthony.kimball@east.sun.com To: nick.hibma@jrc.it Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #284 References: <199810220934.CAA14452@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13871.53235.791265.644032@avalon.east> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : > : > USB has the ability to accept more than one keyboard and more than one : > mouse. I would like to be able to boot a machine and have login prompts : > appear on multiple screens: A proper multi-user system. On the subject of multiple mice: I'd like to be able to grab objects with two mice and rotate them in three dimensions. I can do this today with FBSD, but X doesn't support two mice. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 18:25:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04041 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:25:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04036 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02423; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:27:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810230127.SAA02423@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Greg Lehey cc: Mike Smith , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:35:12 +0930." <19981023093512.Q28824@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:27:29 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because > > the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same > > place as the first. > > Right, but there are ways to disable it. Yes, although they're not in our hands. > > Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively > > trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than > > the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to > > do this. > > > > Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI > > spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. > > Hmmm. How would you go about doing it? It would have to be in the > BIOS setup, and I can't see anything there that allows it. I suppose > you could start up with one video BIOS disabled, and then enable it > programmatically during the boot. There are several components which need to play "nice" for it to work. The system BIOS has to do the "right thing" when it's setting the PCI interfaces on the cards up; it needs to deal with the case where it's got more than one device that says it's a VGA adapter, and only map one of them in. If it's stupid it may crash or map them both (which would probably hang the bus). Then the BIOS on the card that doesn't have the compatibility mappings has to realise the fact. If it doesn't, it will try to talk to the registers as though they were for it, which would be bad. It might be less bad if all the cards were identical. Since Jason claims to have tested this and failed, while I know that you have at least one well-behaved card, it seems to be a bit of a mixed bag. I wonder if the current crop of ATI cards still work? I've got a pair of Rage 3DII's here I could try it with. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 18:30:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04479 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04467 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:30:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA02455; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:31:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810230131.SAA02455@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:08 PDT." <199810230034.RAA09461@george.lbl.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:31:29 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Whether it is used at link time varies from system to system. Under > > SunOS, it was used at link time. But under Linux, for example, it > > apparently is not. I say that because they use the same ELF tools we > > do, and the code simply isn't there to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH at link > > time. > > Can we improve it? LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a UN*X environment variable > which is used for all UNIX platforms, but may not for Linux. > I think it is not a hard job. The environment is almost certainly the wrong place to set it; you might want to consider a path-like syntax extension for the -L argument as an alternative. Arguments belong as arguments. Don't abuse the environment for what it's not designed for. There's also a conflict in that you may wish to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to influence the dynamic linker when running the link, but not want this to spill over into the linked executable. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 18:35:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA04956 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:35:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com [157.147.224.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04941 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from shocking@ariadne.prth.tensor.pgs.com) Received: from ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (ariadne [157.147.227.36]) by bandicoot.prth.tensor.pgs.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA29237; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:34:27 +0800 (WST) Received: from ariadne by ariadne.tensor.pgs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA18917; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:34:27 +0800 Message-Id: <199810230134.JAA18917@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Don Lewis cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:21:55 MST." <199810222221.PAA17059@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:34:27 +0800 From: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Oct 8, 11:06am, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > } Subject: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? > } They're a differential SCSI device, rather large in size and run to about > } 15-20GB. We use them here for seismic data. On a related note, what > } differential SCSI controllers have people had luck with? > > My impression is that seismic data is typically recorded with very large > record sizes (like a megabyte?). I think the current limit in FreeBSD is > 64K. It varies, depending on the trace size & blocking factor. Some SEGD tapes I was messing around with last week had a typical block size of 128400 bytes. I think the old 128k/64k blocksize limit was a result of the broken DMA chipset on PCs, which PCI stuff doesn't (I think) suffer from. There was some discussion a while back about changing this limitation. Stephen -- The views expressed above are not those of PGS Tensor. "We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true." Robert Wilensky, University of California To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 18:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA05890 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:44:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA05881 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:44:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08596; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:43:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA14400; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19473; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:43:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810230143.SAA19473@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:43:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth "Re: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive?" (Oct 23, 9:34am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth , Don Lewis Subject: Re: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 23, 9:34am, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: } Subject: Re: Anyone tried an IBM 3590 tape drive? } I } think the old 128k/64k blocksize limit was a result of the broken DMA chipset } on PCs, which PCI stuff doesn't (I think) suffer from. There was some } discussion a while back about changing this limitation. Which is where I remember the limit from. I've also encountered old controllers that only had a 16 bit register to set the record length, I think mostly old Xylogics multibus controllers plugged into VME adapters in Sun systems. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 18:54:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA06830 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:54:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA06782 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:sD+6mEjumbdnSJxyaIsSq6NOm6pk9890@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05584; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:52:40 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id KAA18749; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:53:52 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199810230153.KAA18749@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Mike Smith cc: Greg Lehey , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list , yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:35:05 MST." <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:53:52 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >> > Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper >> > to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory >> > mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) >> >> Hmm. I think this is your proviso. You specifically mean VGA >> compatibility. Well, yes, if you want a graphics board to conform to >> a standard which only allows one board, then you can only use one >> board. But there's more than just a frame buffer if you disable this >> feature. > >Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because >the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same >place as the first. Unless there's something really odd going on, it's >relatively trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other >than the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system >to do this. I think that's basically what the multi-headed X servers are doing. Therefore, that can be done in the kernel as well, theoretically. But, I think we will be facing another, nasty problem. Because the second PCI video card has not been mapped to the I/O and memory space until someone explicitly does so, the video hardware has not been initialized. For the first (primary) PCI video card, this won't be the problem, because the motherboard BIOS will map the video BIOS ROM of the first video card to the CPU memory space (at 0xc0000) and calls the ROM entry point and the video BIOS will do the rest. (This is done during POST, long before the FreeBSD kernel is loaded, of cource :-) If we are to use the second (or third) video card, we do this sort of initialization by ourselves and I guess we cannot expect to use the video BIOS on this video card; the BIOS expects the card and the BIOS itself is mapped to the usual, standard VGA I/O and memory space! Unless we know exactly which video chip set and card we are dealing with, initialization will be most difficult. Even if we figure out how we do this, we also have to know how to manipulate the card after initialization. If we are content with using only stadnard VGA video modes with this card, we may be OK. But, if we want to go beyond that, again we need to know quite a lot about the chip set and card. One exception will be the case that the VESA BIOS video extention on the first video card is able to handle the second card as well. The VESA specification mentions multiple video card support. But, this isn't a required feature and there doesn't appear to be detailed specification about this. I don't know if this is ever implemented by video card vendors. I also think this will apparently be possible only for the video cards from the same vendor. X servers will be relatively in good position to do this sort of thing. It has chip-specific knowledge and code anyway. (But I still suspect it's not always straightforward and easy. Some video cards may require slightly different way of initialization than others, even if they all use the same chipset.) Anyway, along with the VESA BIOS support, the `videoio' module was introduced to 3.0-CURRENT. It is intended to act as absract interface between syscons and video hardware. It is not yet perfect, but it will be just possible to write a driver module which will hook to videoio and provide support for the second, and third, fourth..., video cards. (The VESA BIOS support in 3.0 is implemented just like that.) As I pointed out above, such modules will be chip-set/card specific and you need to know quite much about video cards you want to support in order to write the driver modules. Kazu >Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI >spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 19:09:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA08198 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA08190 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:09:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.74.10]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12271 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:08:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (housley@cat.frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net [192.168.69.48]) by frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20478 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:08:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from housley@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net) Message-ID: <362FE51F.20E83194@frenchknot.ne.mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:08:31 -0400 From: "James E. Housley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Help. I unlabeled my disk..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can someone please help by pointing my in the right direction to help myself. I deleted the disklabel on my drive. I was able to add the root partition back in. I have written down the sizes I thought the drives were in Meg. I can't get the starting point of the user partition right. Is it possible to do a read of the disk in the range I believe it starts on looking for the SuperBlock? I really would like to the some of the data back I lost. The funny thing is I lost it getting ready to backup up the data. I know mount checks and see that there is not a valid super-block. How does it do it? Can I exploit it to search for the super block? All help will be greatly appreciated. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 19:45:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA10808 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:45:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA10801 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:45:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA26347; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:15:04 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA01708; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:15:03 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981023121503.A28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:15:03 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jason Thorpe Cc: Nick Hibma , Mike Smith , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810222339.QAA09540@lestat.nas.nasa.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: <199810222339.QAA09540@lestat.nas.nasa.gov>; from Jason Thorpe on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:39:39PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 22 October 1998 at 16:39:39 -0700, Jason Thorpe wrote: > On Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:53:39 +0930 > Greg Lehey wrote: > >> I don't understand if you're intending to say "in some cases". It's >> certainly not true generally. You can put as many PCI display boards >> into a machine as will fit, and with the appropriate software you can >> use them all at the same time. I'm currently using two heads with XI >> Graphics server, but will migrate to XFree86 as soon as the facility >> is available (4.0). > > In my experience, as soon as the second one goes in, they both attempt > to put themselves in ISA VGA compatibility space, and the system refuses > to boot. > > I've tried this w/ N combinations of mainboards and PCI VGA devices. >From my dmesg: vga0: rev 0x01 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 vga1: rev 0x09 on pci0.11.0 I didn't say every combination works, but I never had much difficulty with the boards. I even had a third board in at one stage, but the X server didn't recognize it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 20:09:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA12689 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:09:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12684 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id NAA20772; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:08:00 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981023130800.C20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:08:00 +1000 From: David Dawes To: anthony.kimball@east.sun.com, nick.hibma@jrc.it Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #284 References: <199810220934.CAA14452@hub.freebsd.org> <13871.53235.791265.644032@avalon.east> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13871.53235.791265.644032@avalon.east>; from Tony Kimball on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 07:40:45PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 07:40:45PM -0500, Tony Kimball wrote: >: > >: > USB has the ability to accept more than one keyboard and more than one >: > mouse. I would like to be able to boot a machine and have login prompts >: > appear on multiple screens: A proper multi-user system. > >On the subject of multiple mice: > >I'd like to be able to grab objects with two mice and rotate them in >three dimensions. I can do this today with FBSD, but X doesn't support >two mice. The XInput extension allows more than one pointing device, but the application needs to be XInput-aware to make use of it. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 20:32:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA14650 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:32:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14625 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id NAA20857; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:30:06 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981023133006.D20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:30:06 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey Cc: Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <19981023085339.H28824@freebie.lemis.com> <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810222335.QAA01865@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:35:05PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 04:35:05PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> > Some display controllers (notably, 3D accellerators) have a jumper >> > to disable VGA mode completely, but then you only get a memory >> > mapped frame buffer (if you're lucky :-) >> >> Hmm. I think this is your proviso. You specifically mean VGA >> compatibility. Well, yes, if you want a graphics board to conform to >> a standard which only allows one board, then you can only use one >> board. But there's more than just a frame buffer if you disable this >> feature. > >Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because >the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same >place as the first. Unless there's something really odd going on, it's >relatively trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other >than the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system >to do this. > >Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI >spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. The PCI spec doesn't provide a device-independent way of remapping the VGA compatibility resources. They are not relocatable in the sense of normal PCI resources defined through the base address registers. In my experience, most PCI BIOSs disable memory and I/O access for secondary VGA-compatible cards by clearing the appropriate bits in the PCI command register. Multi-head friendly cards provide a (device-specific) way of disabling and/or relocating the VGA-compatible resources. When disabled (like the case of the older Millennium cards that have a switch for this), the PCI class setting may indicate Display/other rather than Display/VGA. As Kazu mentioned in his reply, another important issue is initialising secondary video cards. Even setting up a standard video mode will in general require more detailed knowledge of the hardware than just the standard VGA regisers. We (XFree86) are currently grappling with these issues for our multi-head support in 4.0. One thing we're hoping to do is multiplex access to fixed resources like the VGA-compatiblity registers when needed and when they can be disabled but not relocated. If on some OSs the video BIOS could be called by the X server, it may help with initialisation issues. It might be even better of the OS took care of this at boot time. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 21:48:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA19726 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA19717 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id DAA13896; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:51:51 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199810230251.DAA13896@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #284 To: dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (David Dawes) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:51:50 +0100 (MET) Cc: anthony.kimball@east.sun.com, nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19981023130800.C20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> from "David Dawes" at Oct 23, 98 01:07:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >On the subject of multiple mice: > > > >I'd like to be able to grab objects with two mice and rotate them in > >three dimensions. I can do this today with FBSD, but X doesn't support > >two mice. > > The XInput extension allows more than one pointing device, but the > application needs to be XInput-aware to make use of it. if i get it right, with the above you can _switch_ between multiple devices with xselectpointer, but not have more than one active -- something instead that you can achieve with moused, which has other limitations. i have a mouse and a tablet (not supported by the moused protocol because it works in absolute mode) and i'd really like to have both active at the same time, so if that is possible, instructions would be appreciated. cheers luigi -----------------------------+-------------------------------------- Luigi Rizzo | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it | Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 | via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ _____________________________|______________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 22:29:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA23454 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:29:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA23448 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:29:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 11722 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Oct 1998 05:30:56 -0000 Message-ID: <19981023073056.E365@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:30:56 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad sectors Mail-Followup-To: "Kenneth D. Merry" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <19981022233738.J1126@paert.tse-online.de> <199810222310.RAA19256@panzer.plutotech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <199810222310.RAA19256@panzer.plutotech.com>; from Kenneth D. Merry on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:10:02PM -0600 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Ken, On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:10:02PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > Andreas Braukmann wrote... > > from dmesg: > > da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > > da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > > da1: 8715MB (17850000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1111C) > > > > any hints? is it my fault? the drive's fault? > > Try a different format (the other choices are 'bfi' and 'block'). Some > drives don't support all of the different formats. Hmmm. The results: paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f block -P error reading defect list: Input/output error CAM status is 0 paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f phys -P error reading defect list: Input/output error CAM status is 0 paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f bfi -P error reading defect list: Input/output error CAM status is 0 IMHO strange. I get the same for '-G'. > the command line, you'll get sense information that will tell you why the > command is failing. hhm. The i/o ist failing, but camcontrol doesn't print any sense information. Two questions arise: a) Are the IBM drives supposed to deliver the requested error information? b) I might build a kernel with some CAM-debug options. Would this be helpful. Thanks, Andreas -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 22:50:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA25377 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:50:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA25371 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10111; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:49:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18247; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA19888; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:49:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810230549.WAA19888@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:49:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: Don Lewis "Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features?" (Oct 22, 4:01am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Don Lewis , Warner Losh Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 22, 4:01am, Don Lewis wrote: } Subject: Re: softupdates and/or fsck bugs or features? } } I think what } } was happening was that the link count was adjusted for files that were } } dangling because fsck couldn't attach them to lost+found because the } } directory was full. } } That might explain the link count on lost+found, And indeed it does. In pass3() there is the following code: (void)linkup(orphan, inp->i_dotdot); inp->i_parent = inp->i_dotdot = lfdir; lncntp[lfdir]--; So even if linkup() fails because lost+found is full, lncntp[lfdir]-- still happens. During the phase where the link counts are adjusted, they are decreased by lncntp[inumber], which will be a large negative number in your case, causing the link count in lost+found to be set to a large number. My patch in bin/8055 doesn't have this problem, but now I think it might have other problems if lost+found overflows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Oct 22 23:24:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA28450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:24:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28437 for ; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:24:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id QAA21342; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:22:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981023162253.L20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:22:53 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Luigi Rizzo Cc: anthony.kimball@east.sun.com, nick.hibma@jrc.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #284 References: <19981023130800.C20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <199810230251.DAA13896@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810230251.DAA13896@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>; from Luigi Rizzo on Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:51:50AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 03:51:50AM +0100, Luigi Rizzo wrote: >> >On the subject of multiple mice: >> > >> >I'd like to be able to grab objects with two mice and rotate them in >> >three dimensions. I can do this today with FBSD, but X doesn't support >> >two mice. >> >> The XInput extension allows more than one pointing device, but the >> application needs to be XInput-aware to make use of it. > >if i get it right, with the above you can _switch_ between multiple >devices with xselectpointer, but not have more than one active -- >something instead that you can achieve with moused, which has other >limitations. i have a mouse and a tablet (not supported by the moused >protocol because it works in absolute mode) and i'd really like to have >both active at the same time, so if that is possible, instructions >would be appreciated. xsetpointer selects which input device controls the core pointer. That is, the single pointer that is part of the core X11 protocol. I think that the "AlwaysCore" keyword can be used in an XInput device section to enable sharing of the core pointer between multiple devices. That should probably do what you want. Check the XF86Config(5) man page for a description. If you have any problems let me know and I'll pass them on to our XInput expert. The original poster's question was more about using multiple pointers (rather than multiple devices controlling a single pointer), and that requires XInput-aware applications. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 00:31:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA02752 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:31:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA02735; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:31:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from scesie04.sie.siemens.at (root@firix-hme0 [10.1.140.1]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id JAA00267; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:30:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from scegud01.gud.siemens.at (scegud01.gud.siemens.at [195.3.240.30]) by scesie04.sie.siemens.at () with ESMTP id JAA07851; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:30:29 +0200 (METDST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by scegud01.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA17370; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:30:28 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199810221745.KAA29913@george.lbl.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: (FTG staff) , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 22-Oct-98 FTG staff wrote: > > It seems that ld in 3.0-RELEASE changed its behaving. > In loading a dynamic library, it loads entire library regardless > if objects are used or not. I do not know if this is a bug or intended > goal, but it does not make sense to build libraries at this point. This ld.so behavior is consistent with ld.so behavior on any other U*x system that I know and which supports the shared libraries. dlopen/dlsym do indeed map all the entry points to the library. But please note that the library itself is only mapped into the address space, and the mapping remains the same for all processes which use the same library. Thus, the space is not wasted. Furthermore, only the code pages actually referenced will be pulled into core. > > Would some one please look into this issue? If I understand you correctly, there is no issue to look at. AFAIK, this is an ELF requirement. /Marino > > Thanks, > > -Jin > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message ---------------------------------- Marino Ladavac Date: 23-Oct-98 Time: 09:25:49 ---------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 00:33:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA03015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:33:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mrelay.jrc.it (mrelay.jrc.it [139.191.1.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03010 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nick.hibma@jrc.it) Received: from elect8 (elect8.jrc.it [139.191.71.152]) by mrelay.jrc.it (LMC5692) with SMTP id JAA18637 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:32:31 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:32:27 +0200 (MET DST) From: Nick Hibma X-Sender: n_hibma@elect8 Reply-To: Nick Hibma To: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810230127.SAA02423@dingo.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Guys, Would it be possible to remove non appropriate individuals from the reply-to lines? I do read the hackers list. And this morning I was swamped with duplicates. Greg, if you could give me/the list (probably more than me alone who might have a spare monitor somewhere to play with) a hint on which cards you have been able to do this with, I could appreciate a hint. The same brand is needed for all the cards or does that not matter? Nick On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because > > > the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same > > > place as the first. > > > > Right, but there are ways to disable it. > > Yes, although they're not in our hands. > > > > Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively > > > trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than > > > the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to > > > do this. > > > > > > Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI > > > spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. > > > > Hmmm. How would you go about doing it? It would have to be in the > > BIOS setup, and I can't see anything there that allows it. I suppose > > you could start up with one video BIOS disabled, and then enable it > > programmatically during the boot. > > There are several components which need to play "nice" for it to work. > > The system BIOS has to do the "right thing" when it's setting the > PCI interfaces on the cards up; it needs to deal with the case where > it's got more than one device that says it's a VGA adapter, and only > map one of them in. If it's stupid it may crash or map them both > (which would probably hang the bus). > > Then the BIOS on the card that doesn't have the compatibility mappings > has to realise the fact. If it doesn't, it will try to talk to the > registers as though they were for it, which would be bad. It might be > less bad if all the cards were identical. > > Since Jason claims to have tested this and failed, while I know that you > have at least one well-behaved card, it seems to be a bit of a mixed > bag. I wonder if the current crop of ATI cards still work? I've got a > pair of Rage 3DII's here I could try it with. > > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > -- STA-ISIS, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 01:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA07373 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zwei.siemens.at (zwei.siemens.at [193.81.246.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA07367 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:31:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at) Received: from scesie04.sie.siemens.at (root@firix-hme0 [10.1.140.1]) by zwei.siemens.at with ESMTP id KAA03945; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:29:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from scegud01.gud.siemens.at (scegud01.gud.siemens.at [195.3.240.30]) by scesie04.sie.siemens.at () with ESMTP id KAA15357; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:29:20 +0200 (METDST) Received: from pc8811.gud.siemens.at (pc8811.gud.siemens.at [195.3.22.159]) by scegud01.gud.siemens.at (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA20908; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:29:17 +0200 (METDST) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199810230034.RAA09461@george.lbl.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:29:44 +0200 (CEST) Organization: Siemens Austria AG From: Marino Ladavac To: (FTG staff) Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: jdp@polstra.com, mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 23-Oct-98 FTG staff wrote: >> Whether it is used at link time varies from system to system. Under >> SunOS, it was used at link time. But under Linux, for example, it >> apparently is not. I say that because they use the same ELF tools we >> do, and the code simply isn't there to use LD_LIBRARY_PATH at link >> time. > > Can we improve it? LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a UN*X environment variable > which is used for all UNIX platforms, but may not for Linux. > I think it is not a hard job. s/all UNIX platforms/all UNIX platforms I have been using and that is not that many/ HP-UX uses SHLIB_PATH as an exclusively run-time variable. Setting run paths on HPUX means jumping through hoops (it can be done; it is messy). SINIX did overload the meaning of LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but it doesn't seem to do that any longer. It always did support LD_RUN_PATH. LD_LIBRARY_PATH is a run-time variable. If you want to set library paths during linking use the LD_RUN_PATH instead. This has changed even on SysVR4 because the LD_LIBRARY_PATH overload was too confusing. /Marino To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 01:49:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA08651 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (Thingol.KryptoKom.DE [194.245.91.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA08642 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:49:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Etienne.Debruin@KryptoKom.DE) Received: (from mail@localhost) by Thingol.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.7/8.8.4) id KAA28301 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:38:30 +0200 Received: from cirdan.kryptokom.de by via smtpp (Version 1.1.1b4) id kwa28299; Fri Oct 23 10:38:25 1998 Received: by Cirdan.KryptoKom.DE (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27801 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:47:04 +0200 Original: Received: (from debruin@localhost) by borg.kryptokom.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA19469 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:51:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from debruin) From: Etienne de Bruin Message-Id: <199810230851.KAA19469@borg.kryptokom.de> Subject: BMaster Examples To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:51:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG i need code examples of bus mastering being implemented in pci device drivers. eT -- Etienne de Bruin, KryptoKom(R), Germany. eT@kryptokom.de +49 241 963 2635(w) "i wish i was the ground, for 50 million hands upraised and open towards the sky" - pearl jam, wish list. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 02:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12546 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12541 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:52:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA11688; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:52:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA21918; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id CAA20536; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:51:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810230951.CAA20536@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:51:58 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Jukka A. Ukkonen" "question about getsid()" (Oct 21, 4:19pm) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: "Jukka A. Ukkonen" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question about getsid() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 21, 4:19pm, "Jukka A. Ukkonen" wrote: } Subject: question about getsid() } When looking at the 3.0 getsid() code in kern_prot.c I became } a little hesitant about whether the following code will always } work... } } int } getsid(p, uap) } struct proc *p; } struct getsid_args *uap; } { } if (uap->pid == 0) } goto found; } } if ((p == pfind(uap->pid)) == 0) } return ESRCH; } found: } p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pgrp->pg_session->s_leader->p_pid; } return 0; } } } } What will happen if the process leader has already died? } Will the original session leader's process struct still be } around available for reference or will the code fail? It looks to me like the code will follow a stale pointer off into space. I suspect the result will be a bogus return value rather than a panic. } My own implementation of the same thing added a new field } `s_sid' to the session struct, because I suspected problems } doing it the way the current 3.0 code does. } This new field is in my version initialized during setsid() } using the PID of the session leader, but the code does not } assume the process struct for the session leader being } available later, because `s_sid' content will be returned } by getsid(). That sounds reasonable. fork1() in kern_fork.c should also be fixed so that it avoids reusing the process id of the former session leader until after the session is gone. This is similar to how it already avoids reusing a process group id. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 02:53:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA12680 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from quark.ChrisBowman.com (crbowman.erols.com [209.122.47.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12675 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:52:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Received: from fermion (fermion [10.0.1.2]) by quark.ChrisBowman.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA10474; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:02:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from crb@ChrisBowman.com) Message-Id: <199810231102.GAA10474@quark.ChrisBowman.com> X-Sender: crb@quark X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:51:34 -0400 To: Mike Smith From: "Christopher R. Bowman" Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD Cc: Greg Lehey , Mike Smith , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list In-Reply-To: <199810230127.SAA02423@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 06:27 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> > Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because >> > the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same >> > place as the first. >> >> Right, but there are ways to disable it. > >Yes, although they're not in our hands. > >> > Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively >> > trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than >> > the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to >> > do this. >> > >> > Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI >> > spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. >> >> Hmmm. How would you go about doing it? It would have to be in the >> BIOS setup, and I can't see anything there that allows it. I suppose >> you could start up with one video BIOS disabled, and then enable it >> programmatically during the boot. > >There are several components which need to play "nice" for it to work. > >The system BIOS has to do the "right thing" when it's setting the >PCI interfaces on the cards up; it needs to deal with the case where >it's got more than one device that says it's a VGA adapter, and only >map one of them in. If it's stupid it may crash or map them both >(which would probably hang the bus). > >Then the BIOS on the card that doesn't have the compatibility mappings >has to realise the fact. If it doesn't, it will try to talk to the >registers as though they were for it, which would be bad. It might be >less bad if all the cards were identical. > >Since Jason claims to have tested this and failed, while I know that you >have at least one well-behaved card, it seems to be a bit of a mixed >bag. I wonder if the current crop of ATI cards still work? I've got a >pair of Rage 3DII's here I could try it with. > > >-- >\\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith >\\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au >\\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org >\\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com Mike: I've got a Toshiba Equium 6200M (Intel Pr440fx based) with the ATI Rage 3D II+ based card that it came with, and a Fire 1000 GL Pro (Permedia 2 based) card. The machine works fine under NT (Not using both, just both in the machine) and under FreeBSD which also is not using the second card. As long as the cards are in the right slots the ATI card is used as the boot display which is ok since I don't have a send monitor yet. I assume that the Permedia 2 card will work fine but I have not as yet been able to test it. I have a set of Permedia 2 data books, and I want to write a driver to talk to it but I can't seem to get it to probe correctly. My pci driver probe gets called for the on board USB connector but never gets called for any other pci devices, so I haven't been able to fiddle with it. -------- Christopher R. Bowman crb@ChrisBowman.com http://www.ChrisBowman.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 04:33:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA20222 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20217 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:33:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from CHICOPHILE@aol.com) From: CHICOPHILE@aol.com Received: from CHICOPHILE@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id HGJZa04682 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:32:13 EDT To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: freebsd-hackers-digest V4 #282 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG UNSUBSCRIBE To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 07:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01213 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wrath.cs.utah.edu (wrath.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA01208 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from vanmaren@fast.cs.utah.edu) Received: from fast.cs.utah.edu (fast.cs.utah.edu [155.99.212.1]) by wrath.cs.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA14692; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fast.cs.utah.edu (8.6.10/utah-2.15-leaf) id IAA16725; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:05:14 -0600 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:05:14 -0600 From: vanmaren@fast.cs.utah.edu (Kevin Van Maren) Message-Id: <199810231405.IAA16725@fast.cs.utah.edu> To: Etienne.Debruin@KryptoKom.DE, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Q: bus mastering Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > hi, i paged through the mail list archives but could not find a specific > technical discussion about bus mastering. i would like to implement bus > mastering for a pci device driver. need more info... > > eT This is highly device-dependant. Each bus-master-capable PCI device has its own DMA controller, and they are all programmed in a device-specific manner. It is not at all like ISA, where there is a centralized DMA controller that is used for DMA transfers. As a good start, you can grep for "vtophys" in src/sys/pci/*.c, but a better bet would be to get the programming info for the specific device you are interested in. (Many of the ethernet devices, especially, support scatter-gather DMA). Good luck. Kevin Van Maren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 07:53:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA06139 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:53:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA06134; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA04643; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810231452.HAA04643@george.lbl.gov> To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, lada@pc8811.gud.siemens.at Subject: RE: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > This ld.so behavior is consistent with ld.so behavior on any other U*x system > that I know and which supports the shared libraries. Any other Un*x systems that support the shared libraries will not have such behavior, including FreeBSD itself. This is elf/ld issue. > dlopen/dlsym do indeed map all the entry points to the library. But please note > that the library itself is only mapped into the address space, and the mapping > remains the same for all processes which use the same library. Thus, the space > is not wasted. Furthermore, only the code pages actually referenced will be > pulled into core. > > > > > Would some one please look into this issue? > > If I understand you correctly, there is no issue to look at. AFAIK, this is > an ELF requirement. > > /Marino Again, this is elf/ld issue. As Mike Smith, thanks Mike, pointed out, by setting OBJFORMAT to aout, the compiling and linking systems will use aout/* instead elf/*, and problem goes away. This is a temp solution. As we know, the 3.0 kernel also uses aout format. In long run, if FreeBSD will move to use elf format in system wide range, the elf/ld behavor has to be corrected. -Jin P.S. By the way, there is another problem was found in 3.0 RELEASE, the aout/ld complains that the libX11.a has bag magic, even the file and objformat all confirmed the libX11.a is in aout format. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 08:13:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08629 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:13:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08624 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:13:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from peter@taronga.com) Received: (qmail 15564 invoked from network); 23 Oct 1998 15:12:46 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (root@206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 1998 15:12:46 -0000 Received: (from peter@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA04855; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:12:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:12:24 -0500 From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Message-Id: <199810231512.KAA04855@bonkers.taronga.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Producing non-GPLed tools for FreeBSD Newsgroups: taronga.freebsd.hackers In-Reply-To: References: <19981020162923.17640@right.PCS> Organization: none Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , > I find it disturbing that people don't see freedom unless they can trade >it for something else. If you can't sell your freedom, do you really own it? (don't answer that. People fight wars over it, with live ammo and no holodeck safety protocols.) The point is, um, that honest people can disagree on this point, OK? You shouldn't find that disturbing. And, um, this whole thread is horribly off-topic and in the wrong place. OK? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 08:38:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA10876 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:38:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pau-amma.whistle.com (s205m64.whistle.com [207.76.205.64]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10870 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:38:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw@whistle.com) Received: (from dhw@localhost) by pau-amma.whistle.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA17063 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dhw) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: David Wolfskill Message-Id: <199810231537.IAA17063@pau-amma.whistle.com> Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810230034.RAA09461@george.lbl.gov> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:34:08 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Jin Guojun@alpo (FTG staff)" >Ignore the platforms. Shall we always make things work better and better, >but not following some restriction? we want the evolution. At some risk of over-reacting, I suggest that "ignor[ing] the [other] platforms" is an excellent way to accrue POLA violations, especially from those of us who work in heterogeneous environments or are accustomed to other versions of UNIX. Fortunately, I believe that there is a sense of this already; I merely wished to ensure that there was no perception of "assent via silence" in this case. david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator dhw@whistle.com voice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 09:16:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15576 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15571 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:16:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27345; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810231616.JAA27345@austin.polstra.com> To: jin@george.lbl.gov Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-Reply-To: <199810231452.HAA04643@george.lbl.gov> References: <199810231452.HAA04643@george.lbl.gov> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:16:13 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article <199810231452.HAA04643@george.lbl.gov>, Jin Guojun (FTG staff) wrote: > P.S. By the way, there is another problem was found in 3.0 RELEASE, > the aout/ld complains that the libX11.a has bag magic, even > the file and objformat all confirmed the libX11.a is in aout format. No. You are not using objformat correctly, as I noticed from the output you sent me in private mail. It is not correct to type "objformat filename" to get the format of the file. Your libX11.a is almost certainly in ELF format. As to the output of "file", there is very little difference between a.out and ELF *.a files. The difference is in the *.o files that they contain. And the "file" command doesn't look at those. You are not going to like hearing this, but: you need to slow down, take a deep breath, stop frantically trying things, and study some manual pages. The problems you've described have all been due to your confusion about which tools (a.out or ELF) you're using, and how those tools work. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 09:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA16331 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles341.castles.com [208.214.167.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16321 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:24:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (LOCALHOST [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03120; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:27:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810231627.JAA03120@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Etienne de Bruin cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) Subject: Re: BMaster Examples In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:51:12 +0200." <199810230851.KAA19469@borg.kryptokom.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:27:32 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > i need code examples of bus mastering being implemented in pci device > drivers. As has already been explained to you, bus mastering for PCI devices is almost entirely specific to the device in question. You will have to consult the documentation for this device, and then look at almost any of the PCI drivers, as most of them use the device's busmaster support. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 09:43:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA18134 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:43:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from wopr.inetu.net (wopr.inetu.net [207.18.13.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA18129 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ziggy@wopr.inetu.net) Received: from localhost (ziggy@localhost) by wopr.inetu.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA00479 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:42:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan Ziegler To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: mounting multiple /proc's Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Is it possible, safe, and atleast mildly efficient to mount /proc, say, 25 times? I have tried mounting it twice on 2.2.5, and every program that uses /proc became out-of-synch. However, I cannot confirm that the cause was the multiple /proc mountings because I was also playing around with other possibly-damaging things. I will try this again in the next few days when I have a spare machine. Suggestions, comments, caveats? -Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 09:54:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA19251 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:54:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA19245 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:54:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA02207; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:53:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199810231653.JAA02207@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Etienne de Bruin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (Hackers FreeBSD) Subject: Re: BMaster Examples In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:27:32 PDT." <199810231627.JAA03120@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:53:44 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG PCI bus mastering is different than ISA DMA in which there is a standard way of doing dma transfer, for PCI devices bus transfer is device specific. I realize that device specific is vague so let me give you a short example from the Bt848 driver: /* sync vre IRQ bit */ *dma_prog++ = OP_SYNC | 1 << 24 | 1 << 15 | BKTR_VRE; *dma_prog++ = 0; /* NULL WORD */ *dma_prog++ = OP_JUMP ; *dma_prog++ = (u_long ) vtophys(bktr->dma_prog) ; The bt848 reads a dma program from the host memory and then it executes a series of micro instructions. There is a register bit which one sets to start or stop reading the host program and another register to load the starting address of the RISC program. Needless to say that just about every PCI device does dma differently. Cheers, Amancio > > i need code examples of bus mastering being implemented in pci device > > drivers. > > As has already been explained to you, bus mastering for PCI devices is > almost entirely specific to the device in question. You will have to > consult the documentation for this device, and then look at almost any > of the PCI drivers, as most of them use the device's busmaster support. > > -- > \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith > \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au > \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org > \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 10:11:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA20974 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from george.lbl.gov (george.lbl.gov [131.243.2.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA20969 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@george.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by george.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA07769; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:11:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810231711.KAA07769@george.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > No. You are not using objformat correctly, as I noticed from the > output you sent me in private mail. It is not correct to type > "objformat filename" to get the format of the file. Your libX11.a is > almost certainly in ELF format. > > You are not going to like hearing this, but: you need to slow down, > take a deep breath, stop frantically trying things, and study some > manual pages. The problems you've described have all been due to your > confusion about which tools (a.out or ELF) you're using, and how those > tools work. There is no manual page for objformat. BUt by looking the code, I see objformat just looking for environmrent or /etc/objformat to tell what format should be used by compiler and linker. It was confused when you told me to use objformat. By looking into /usr/lib, I see the default libraries are in elf format. The aout format libraries are in /usr/lib/aout which has missing X11/lib. So, a couple of questions for this ld issue: Will aout/{cc, ld} system co-exists with elf system in the future release? Will elf/ld be modified to behave like other regular ld (or aout/ld) not trying to resolve the unused symbols? Thanks, -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 11:30:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28067 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:30:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28059 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:30:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00518; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:34:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810231834.LAA00518@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Christopher R. Bowman" cc: FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:51:34 EDT." <199810231102.GAA10474@quark.ChrisBowman.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:34:27 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Since Jason claims to have tested this and failed, while I know that you > >have at least one well-behaved card, it seems to be a bit of a mixed > >bag. I wonder if the current crop of ATI cards still work? I've got a > >pair of Rage 3DII's here I could try it with. ... > I've got a Toshiba Equium 6200M (Intel Pr440fx based) with the ATI Rage 3D II+ > based card that it came with, and a Fire 1000 GL Pro (Permedia 2 based) card. > The machine works fine under NT (Not using both, just both in the machine) and > under FreeBSD which also is not using the second card. As long as the cards > are in the right slots the ATI card is used as the boot display which is ok > since I don't have a send monitor yet. Ok, so it looks like at least the Rage and Permedia BIOSsen aren't completely pathalogical. Thanks for the datapoint. > I assume that the Permedia 2 card will work fine but I have not as yet been > able to test it. I have a set of Permedia 2 data books, and I want to write a > driver to talk to it but I can't seem to get it to probe correctly. My pci > driver probe gets called for the on board USB connector but never gets called > for any other pci devices, so I haven't been able to fiddle with it. That may be because other drivers are soaking up the probe; does the Permedia card show up in a verbose probe at all? If so, does anyone claim it? -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 11:41:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28940 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:41:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28749 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:40:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00564; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:40:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810231840.LAA00564@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Dawes cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:30:06 +1000." <19981023133006.D20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:40:55 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > The PCI spec doesn't provide a device-independent way of remapping the > VGA compatibility resources. They are not relocatable in the sense of > normal PCI resources defined through the base address registers. In my > experience, most PCI BIOSs disable memory and I/O access for secondary > VGA-compatible cards by clearing the appropriate bits in the PCI command > register. Hmm, Ok, I'm obvoiusly out of whack here. This would imply that there's not an alternate set of mappings that can be enabled to access the same register sets in any "standard" fashion? > We (XFree86) are currently grappling with these issues for our multi-head > support in 4.0. One thing we're hoping to do is multiplex access to > fixed resources like the VGA-compatiblity registers when needed and when > they can be disabled but not relocated. If on some OSs the video BIOS > could be called by the X server, it may help with initialisation issues. > It might be even better of the OS took care of this at boot time. Hmm. I'm working around this area at the moment, although Kazu is definitely the authority on the matter. I presume you're referring to something like: - Disable primary VGA compatibility mappings - Disable primary VGA BIOS mapping - Foreach non-primary video adapter - Enable VGA compatibility mappings - Enable VGA BIOS mapping - Make BIOS initialisation call(s) - Disable VGA compatibility mappings - Disable VGA BIOS mapping - Ensable primary VGA compatibility mappings - Ensable primary VGA BIOS mapping as well as providing some mechanism for nominating which card of the set should be mapped at any given time? Any ideas as to whether card BIOSses would respond well to having their initialisation code called in v86 mode rather than real mode? I think this sort of approach could be quite viable. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 13:12:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05804 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:12:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from symbion.srrc.usda.gov ([199.78.118.118]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05750 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:11:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from glenn@nola.srrc.usda.gov) Received: from nola.srrc.usda.gov (localhost.srrc.usda.gov [127.0.0.1]) by symbion.srrc.usda.gov (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA00764 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:11:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from glenn@nola.srrc.usda.gov) Message-Id: <199810232011.PAA00764@symbion.srrc.usda.gov> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Glenn Johnson Subject: reconciling different defines in header files between Linux and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:11:03 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greetings, I am trying to compile code on FreeBSD 3.0 that was written with Linux in mind. The following code snippet is where it is failing: void galloc_ (nwords, wordsize, iclear, refarray, offset) f77_int *nwords, *wordsize, *iclear; offset_type *offset; f77_wp *refarray; { f77_wp *gmalloc(); size_t nbytes; offset_type n; #ifdef DO_SHM int shmflags = 0; void *brkadr, *sbrk(); key_t shmkey; The error that I get is: bsd/mdutil.c: In function `galloc_': bsd/mdutil.c:2630: conflicting types for `sbrk' /usr/include/unistd.h:168: previous declaration of `sbrk' bsd/mdutil.c:2630: warning: extern declaration of `sbrk' doesn't match global one sbrk is defined in in FreeBSD as: char *sbrk __P((int)); sbrk is defined in in Linux as: extern __ptr_t __sbrk __P ((ptrdiff_t __delta)); extern __ptr_t sbrk __P ((ptrdiff_t __delta)); What is the right way to reconcile my code? Do I need to redefine sbrk in the source file as extern or do I make the call explicitly char? Thanks in advance. -- Glenn Johnson Technician USDA, ARS, SRRC New Orleans, LA To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 13:16:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06197 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:16:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06192 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:16:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29025; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:15:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810232015.NAA29025@austin.polstra.com> To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:11:13 PDT." <199810231711.KAA07769@george.lbl.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:15:59 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > There is no manual page for objformat. Oooops ... sorry! Wanna write one for us? :-) > BUt by looking the code, I see objformat just looking for > environmrent or /etc/objformat to tell what format should be used by > compiler and linker. Yes, it can use either the OBJFORMAT environment variable or a command line argument like "-aout" or "-elf". > It was confused when you told me to use objformat. It should complain if it is invoked under the name "objformat" and given any arguments. It's a bug that it doesn't. So I can see why you were confused by it. I will fix that bug. > By looking into /usr/lib, I see the default libraries are in elf > format. The aout format libraries are in /usr/lib/aout which has > missing X11/lib. Yes. Generally, people have either ELF X11 libraries or a.out X11 libraries, but not both. > Will aout/{cc, ld} system co-exists with elf system in the future > release? In general, we are phasing out a.out and moving strictly to ELF. We don't want to be a "choose your object format" system. We will continue to provide the a.out tools, but they won't be recommended for new development. Also, to use them you'll have to take extra steps, such as specifying OBJFORMAT=aout in the environment or adding "-aout" to the command line. Don't rely on using a.out to solve build problems, because a.out is the past and ELF is the future. > Will elf/ld be modified to behave like other regular ld (or aout/ld) > not trying to resolve the unused symbols? No, because it's a _bug_ that the a.out linker doesn't complain about those undefined symbols. Shared libraries are fundamentally different from archive libraries. With an archive library, the linker only loads those members (.o files) that are actually used. But a shared library is monolithic. You either load all of it or you load none of it. That means you aren't allowed to have undefined symbols at link time, even from portions of the shared library that you're not actually using. Again, reporting such errors is the norm for linkers on systems that have shared libraries. Our old a.out linker is simply buggy. I should add that we've gotten a lot of complaints about that particular bug. So no, I'm not going to add the same bug to our ELF linker. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 13:19:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06414 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06409 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:19:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01049; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810232022.NAA01049@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Glenn Johnson cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: reconciling different defines in header files between Linux and FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:11:03 CDT." <199810232011.PAA00764@symbion.srrc.usda.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:22:54 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Greetings, > > I am trying to compile code on FreeBSD 3.0 that was written with Linux in > mind. > The following code snippet is where it is failing: ... > void *brkadr, *sbrk(); ... > What is the right way to reconcile my code? Do I need to redefine sbrk in the source file as extern or do I make the call explicitly char? The code above contains a bogus prototype for sbrk; remove it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 13:52:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08983 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:52:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08977; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:52:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA09667; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:52:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd009567; Fri Oct 23 13:51:55 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01614; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:51:54 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810232051.NAA01614@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:51:53 +0000 (GMT) Cc: nick.hibma@jrc.it, sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810220803.JAA11764@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Oct 22, 98 09:03:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > Given the right HW I could help out... > > > > Well, that's the problem really, given the right hardware I would do it > > myself. But try to get USB hardware in Italy... > > being in italy i can speak about that.. cameras and scanners are > more and more available in stores on USB nowadays (actually it is becoming > difficult to find non-USB scanners and especially cameras in some > places). I haven't seen many keyboards/mice on USB though. They don't sell iMac hardware in Italy? The iMac keyboard and mouse are USB. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09739 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:01:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09727 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:01:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA18447; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:00:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd018425; Fri Oct 23 14:00:35 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA02144; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:00:34 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810232100.OAA02144@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Time granularity To: stefan@callmedia.se Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:00:34 +0000 (GMT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810221827.UAA22987@callmedia.se> from "stefan@callmedia.se" at Oct 22, 98 08:52:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Unfortunately we have some of these horrible SCO 3.2 server(something). > (We can't at this moment port that software to FreeBSD. driver stuff) > Is there anyone that have any clue on how to get bigger time > granularity on SCO 3.2 than hundreds of a second(thousands with CPU > time usage)? We need to do very accurate timing in a kind of competition. > Is there any library for this kind of stuff out there? > > (With FreeBSD's timing functionality and virtual clocks there is no > problem, I know,) If this is a Pentium, you can read the instruction cycle counter; see the FreeBSD "timecounter" code in the /sys/i386 directory for more details. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:01:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09745 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:01:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from portnoy.lbl.gov (portnoy.lbl.gov [131.243.2.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09737 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:01:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jin@portnoy.lbl.gov) Received: (from jin@localhost) by portnoy.lbl.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08835; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) Message-Id: <199810232100.OAA08835@portnoy.lbl.gov> To: jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Will elf/ld be modified to behave like other regular ld (or aout/ld) > > not trying to resolve the unused symbols? > > No, because it's a _bug_ that the a.out linker doesn't complain about > those undefined symbols. Shared libraries are fundamentally different > from archive libraries. With an archive library, the linker only > loads those members (.o files) that are actually used. But a shared > library is monolithic. You either load all of it or you load none > of it. That means you aren't allowed to have undefined symbols at > link time, even from portions of the shared library that you're not > actually using. Again, reporting such errors is the norm for linkers > on systems that have shared libraries. Our old a.out linker is simply > buggy. I should add that we've gotten a lot of complaints about that > particular bug. So no, I'm not going to add the same bug to our ELF > linker. I would like to restate this issue. As we discussed yesterday, you mentioned this tool/util is same as Linue uses. I am carefully tested this issue on a following Linux system: Linux 2000.lbl.gov 2.0.31 #1 Sun Nov 9 21:45:23 EST 1997 i686 unknown The ld works exactly as other platforms, like Solaris (ELF), SunOS4 (not ELF), FreeBSD 2.x (aout), without such a problem. If you argue this is aout bug, I think the idea is wrong. All ELF system as I know, such as Solaris, Linux, work are same as non-ELF system, except FreeBSD 3.0. Therefore, it is FreeBSD 3.0 elf problem. Unless you believe every body else is wrong. I suggest that you may investigate this issue on different ELF systems to see if you are willing to revise what in you mind, not adding a bug but fix a bug in this ELF linker. Thanks, -Jin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:09:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA10363 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10358 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29430; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:09:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810232109.OAA29430@austin.polstra.com> To: Jin Guojun (FTG staff) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:00:37 PDT." <199810232100.OAA08835@portnoy.lbl.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:09:21 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I would like to restate this issue. As we discussed yesterday, you > mentioned this tool/util is same as Linue uses. Almost the same. We use the standard binutils-2.9.1 utilities, while Linux uses their release-of-the-day. The most recent one is what they call binutils 2.9.1.0.15. Generally they don't make feature changes in their dot-dot releases, and generally their changes are folded into subsequent official releases from the GNU project. > I am carefully tested this issue on a following Linux system: > > Linux 2000.lbl.gov 2.0.31 #1 Sun Nov 9 21:45:23 EST 1997 i686 unknown > > The ld works exactly as other platforms, like Solaris (ELF), SunOS4 (not ELF), > FreeBSD 2.x (aout), without such a problem. If you argue this is aout bug, > I think the idea is wrong. All ELF system as I know, such as Solaris, Linux, > work are same as non-ELF system, except FreeBSD 3.0. Therefore, it is > FreeBSD 3.0 elf problem. Unless you believe every body else is wrong. > > I suggest that you may investigate this issue on different ELF systems to see > if you are willing to revise what in you mind, not adding a bug but fix a bug > in this ELF linker. Fair enough. Could you please send me a simple but complete test case, so that I can investigate it? John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:26:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cimlogic.com.au (cimlog.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.51.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12357 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:26:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jb@cimlogic.com.au) Received: (from jb@localhost) by cimlogic.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA11763; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:30:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jb) From: John Birrell Message-Id: <199810232130.HAA11763@cimlogic.com.au> Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-Reply-To: <199810232100.OAA08835@portnoy.lbl.gov> from Jin Guojun at "Oct 23, 98 02:00:37 pm" To: jin@portnoy.lbl.gov (Jin Guojun) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:30:04 +1000 (EST) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL40 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Jin Guojun wrote: > The ld works exactly as other platforms, like Solaris (ELF), SunOS4 (not ELF), > FreeBSD 2.x (aout), without such a problem. If you argue this is aout bug, > I think the idea is wrong. All ELF system as I know, such as Solaris, Linux, > work are same as non-ELF system, except FreeBSD 3.0. Therefore, it is > FreeBSD 3.0 elf problem. Unless you believe every body else is wrong. I notice different behaviour between FreeBSD 3.0-ELF and Digital Unix. The binutils ld reports unresolved and possibly unreferenced symbols at link time. I think this is the "bug" you are complaining about. On Digital Unix, the linker doesn't report the unreferenced, unresolved symbols, but the run-time linker _does_. I find that annoying. If there is a way of configuring binutils (without hacking the sources) to get behaviour that is "consistent" with other systems, we can consider that. IMHO, hacking the binutils sources so that ld behaves differently from what the binutils programmers intended will just leave us in the same position we ended up with the old tools - out in the cold. -- John Birrell - jb@cimlogic.com.au; jb@freebsd.org http://www.cimlogic.com.au/ CIMlogic Pty Ltd, GPO Box 117A, Melbourne Vic 3001, Australia +61 418 353 137 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12541 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:28:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12534 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:28:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA29604; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:27:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp) Message-Id: <199810232127.OAA29604@austin.polstra.com> To: John Birrell cc: jin@portnoy.lbl.gov (Jin Guojun), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:30:04 +1000." <199810232130.HAA11763@cimlogic.com.au> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:27:54 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > IMHO, hacking the binutils sources so that ld behaves differently > from what the binutils programmers intended will just leave us in > the same position we ended up with the old tools - out in the cold. Exactly. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." -- H. L. Mencken To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:47:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14591 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:47:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14566; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:47:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA01940; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:46:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd001911; Fri Oct 23 14:46:54 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA06412; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:46:50 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810232146.OAA06412@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? To: jin@george.lbl.gov (Jin Guojun) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:46:50 +0000 (GMT) Cc: mike@smith.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810222351.QAA08906@george.lbl.gov> from "Jin Guojun" at Oct 22, 98 04:51:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -L/usr/local/lib -ltest > /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `b_printf' > /usr/local/lib/libtest.so: undefined reference to `c_printf' This behaviour is undesirable, yet it is desirable. This is because of the "NULL" argument to dlopen() to access the symbol space of the program code sections. Consider a program that implements a scripting language that allows access to locally defined symbols for the purposes of allowing calls to be proxied to native code implementations of script components. You couls see this in a JAVA environment that provided a JIT or JNI capability. You could also see this in an incremental compilation environment, such as LISP, FORTH, some BASIC interpreters, and UCSD pcode. In general, the exposure of unused symbols should have to be enabled by a link flag similar to that necessary for local symbol exposure. This behaviour appears to be the default because of ELF, and your argument is that the default is "wrong". Next case: > test.lbl.gov: setenv OBJFORMAT aout > test.lbl.gov: make > ... > test.lbl.gov: !fil > file *o > a.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped > a.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped > b.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped > b.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped > c.o: FreeBSD/i386 object not stripped > c.so: FreeBSD/i386 PIC object not stripped > test.lbl.gov: cc -o test test.c -ltest > test.lbl.gov: This behaviour is desirable, yet it is undesirable. Consider the case of a program depending on a library dependent library, ie: prog: main() { lib_func(); } first_order_lib: lib_func() { other_lib_func(); } second_order_lib: other_lib_func() { ... } In the a.out linkage case, due to a symbol stacking bug that is not easily resolved (I estimate about 40 hours of work would be required), the a.out linker acts as if the image linking process were engaging in dlopen(3) RTLD_LAZY style symbol resolution, not RTLD_NOW symbol resolution. As a result, it's possible to build prog, link it against the first_order_lib library, and then fail at runtime due to the lack of second_order_lib. This particular problem poses a great obstable to using FreeBSD as a product developement environment, since even if you test, you are unlikely to achieve full code coverage, and all it takes is a single unexercised code path to core your program. This is arguably a problem with the programmer who wrote the code not doing a correct functional abstraction of their interfaces, but it's not fatal to be an idiot (like it should be). However, regardless of how the promiscuous use of one library by another is "hidden" from the linker, the act of hiding the unresolved *explicitly referenced* dependency at compile time is *wrong*. So in the case described above, the ELF linker is "right", and the a.out linker is "wrong": precisely the opposite of the condition you are complaining about. Note: if first_order_lib and second_order_lib are static instead of dynamic, the missing hidden dependency is correctly reported as an error. Or is it? There is a third case, where the dlopen'ed object's behaviour is *intended* to be variant based on invocation: serial_terminal_emulator_prog: main() { dlopen( "vt100.so"); } get_port_char() { ... /* read a character from the serial port*/ } network_terminal_emulator_prog: main() { dlopen( "vt100.so"); } get_port_char() { ... /* read a character from the remote host*/ } vt100.so: process_input_from_port() { int ch; #ifdef BOGUS_GLUE int (*get_port_char)(); dlopen( NULL); get_port_char = dlsym( "get_port_char"); #else /* !BOGUS_GLUE*/ extern int get_port_char(); #endif /* !BOGUS_GLUE*/ ch = get_port_char(); ... } In this case, the binding to symbols required by the shared object is supposed to occur later, such that it imports the symbols from the image that it is linked against. One could argue that both the ELF and the a.out linkeres were broken from the perspective that you should be able to directly reference the get_port_char() function, not by proxy symbol via dlopen+dlsym, and that the symbol should be resolved from the program's symbol space as necessary. Now we "weenie out" and put the async I/O and network I/O code into shared lirbaries and/or seperately opene'd by a generic emulator object: generic_terminal_emulator_prog: main() { dlopen( "network_io.so"); dlopen( "vt100.so"); } And so on. The argument for this case is that the second dlopen() call should fail if the symbols it needs are not available (you would use RTLD_NOW in order to force this behaviour). Which leaves us looking at how to hid unreferenced shared library symbols in ELF shared liraries not specifically linked to expose all symbols, or, because it's likely that libc.so symbols should *all* be exposed, by default, how to explicitly hide the symbols in your example. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:54:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15382 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:54:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from armahn.secure.net (armahn.secure.net [192.41.1.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15375 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:54:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djs@armahn.secure.net) Received: from armahn.secure.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by armahn.secure.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11252 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:53:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199810232153.PAA11252@armahn.secure.net> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:53:39 -0600 From: David Sharp Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG subscribe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:54:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15516 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:54:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.dyn.ml.org (pm3-32.ppp.wenet.net [206.15.85.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15493 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) Received: from localhost (garbanzo@localhost) by zippy.dyn.ml.org (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA01484; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:56:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from garbanzo@hooked.net) X-Authentication-Warning: zippy.dyn.ml.org: garbanzo owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:56:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Zepeda X-Sender: garbanzo@zippy.dyn.ml.org To: John Polstra cc: Jin Guojun , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? In-Reply-To: <199810232015.NAA29025@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, John Polstra wrote: > Yes. Generally, people have either ELF X11 libraries or a.out X11 > libraries, but not both. Until Netscape releases an ELF version of Navigator, and until there's an ELF version of Motif, I'm sure that most people [who use Netscape] will have [a use for] both. > Don't rely on using a.out to solve build problems, because a.out is > the past and ELF is the future. Really, I thought WinNT was the future ;-) > Again, reporting such errors is the norm for linkers on systems that > have shared libraries. Our old a.out linker is simply buggy. I > should add that we've gotten a lot of complaints about that particular > bug. So no, I'm not going to add the same bug to our ELF linker. On that note one thing I've noticed is that the ELF ld refuses to recognize shared libs unless they end in .so. What would the chances be of having it check for libfoo.so.x where x is the greatest value (assuming libfoo.so doesn't exist)? This is rather annoying, as the a.out ld doesn't do this, and the Linux ld apparently doesn't do this, and that covers quite a lot of software one might want to compile. mico is a prime example. - alex | "Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern | | technology. Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat." | | Powered by FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 14:59:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15869 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:59:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15864 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:58:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr07.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA23961; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:58:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr07.primenet.com(206.165.6.207) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd023922; Fri Oct 23 14:58:22 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr07.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07507; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:58:21 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810232158.OAA07507@usr07.primenet.com> Subject: Re: ld for loading dynamic library changed in 3.0-RELEASE? To: jin@portnoy.lbl.gov (Jin Guojun) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:58:20 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jdp@polstra.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810232100.OAA08835@portnoy.lbl.gov> from "Jin Guojun" at Oct 23, 98 02:00:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Shared libraries are fundamentally different > > from archive libraries. With an archive library, the linker only > > loads those members (.o files) that are actually used. But a shared > > library is monolithic. You either load all of it or you load none > > of it. That means you aren't allowed to have undefined symbols at > > link time, even from portions of the shared library that you're not > > actually using. Actually, it's generally switchable as to whether or not you force the export of the unreferenced symbol space, or not, as a link-time option. I think the 2.9.1(?) ld has this feature... > The ld works exactly as other platforms, like Solaris (ELF), SunOS4 (not ELF), > FreeBSD 2.x (aout), without such a problem. If you argue this is aout bug, > I think the idea is wrong. All ELF system as I know, such as Solaris, Linux, > work are same as non-ELF system, except FreeBSD 3.0. Therefore, it is > FreeBSD 3.0 elf problem. Unless you believe every body else is wrong. Everyone else is wrong, but so is FreeBSD. See my other posting on expectation of use of shared object technology, and the implications of "broken". For one type of application, a.out is right and ELF is wrong. For another, ELF is right and a.out is wrong. For a third, both ELF and a.out are wrong. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 16:13:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA21266 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:13:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21257 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:13:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id IAA01469; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:43:12 +0930 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id IAA08160; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:43:11 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19981024084310.O28824@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:43:10 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810230127.SAA02423@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Nick Hibma on Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 09:32:27AM +0200 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 23 October 1998 at 9:32:27 +0200, Nick Hibma wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Mike Smith wrote: > >>>> Jason's gripe was that you con't have more than one video card because >>>> the second wants its VGA-compatibility registers mapped in the same >>>> place as the first. >>> >>> Right, but there are ways to disable it. >> >> Yes, although they're not in our hands. >> >>>> Unless there's something really odd going on, it's relatively >>>> trivial to simply map the I/O ranges for display cards other than >>>> the first somewhere else; you just need the smarts in your system to >>>> do this. >>>> >>>> Video chipsets not supporting this would be in violation of the PCI >>>> spec. I wouldn't expect this to be too common. >>> >>> Hmmm. How would you go about doing it? It would have to be in the >>> BIOS setup, and I can't see anything there that allows it. I suppose >>> you could start up with one video BIOS disabled, and then enable it >>> programmatically during the boot. >> >> There are several components which need to play "nice" for it to work. >> >> The system BIOS has to do the "right thing" when it's setting the >> PCI interfaces on the cards up; it needs to deal with the case where >> it's got more than one device that says it's a VGA adapter, and only >> map one of them in. If it's stupid it may crash or map them both >> (which would probably hang the bus). >> >> Then the BIOS on the card that doesn't have the compatibility mappings >> has to realise the fact. If it doesn't, it will try to talk to the >> registers as though they were for it, which would be bad. It might be >> less bad if all the cards were identical. >> >> Since Jason claims to have tested this and failed, while I know that you >> have at least one well-behaved card, it seems to be a bit of a mixed >> bag. I wonder if the current crop of ATI cards still work? I've got a >> pair of Rage 3DII's here I could try it with. > > Greg, if you could give me/the list (probably more than me alone who > might have a spare monitor somewhere to play with) a hint on which cards > you have been able to do this with, I could appreciate a hint. The same > brand is needed for all the cards or does that not matter? The boards don't have to be the same; here's the dmesg output I posted yesterday: vga0: rev 0x01 int a irq 10 on pci0.10.0 vga1: rev 0x09 on pci0.11.0 My "list" is way out of date, up to several years. I basically went by what the XI Graphics server could support, and that kept changing with the release (one of the reasons I won't upgrade to a newer version; I'll keep my current version 1.3 (!) until XFree86 4.0 is available, and then I'll switch to that. But XI Graphics do specify which boards their multi-head server supports; check out http://www.xig.com/board/mx/bdindex.html. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 16:35:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA23016 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:35:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from hda.hda.com (hda-bicnet.bicnet.net [208.220.66.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA23007 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:35:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dufault@hda.hda.com) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.hda.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12216; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:26:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199810232326.TAA12216@hda.hda.com> Subject: Re: Multi-terabyte disk farm In-Reply-To: <199810222304.QAA01620@dingo.cdrom.com> from Mike Smith at "Oct 22, 98 04:04:59 pm" To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Cc: mlnn4@oaks.com.au, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > > Prior to my arrival two weeks ago, they had been planning to use a > > StorageTek Timberwolf library. This box has two DLT drives, a robot arm, > > and about 8 terabytes worth of tape slots. (...) > I would be inclined to go with RAID-4 or -5... Be careful. If they are considering this now, knowing the price, the chances are that they will need whatever this scales to in a few years. That is, the needs will grow and not remain constant, and your counting on the cost per disk to come down may wind up solving today's problem tomorrow. You could approach this as a FreeBSD front end to the Timberwolf and a learning experience. A handy dandy big disk cache and network interface might be an easier and low risk project and let you know the ins and outs of the application. Peter -- Peter Dufault (dufault@hda.com) Realtime development, Machine control, HD Associates, Inc. Safety critical systems, Agency approval To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 17:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA27776 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:38:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pudv01.ric.pmu.com (207-172-62-155.s155.tnt2.rcm.erols.com [207.172.62.155]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27601 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from SimsS@IBM.Net) Received: from Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us ([148.128.70.186]) by pudv01.ric.pmu.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA02135; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:37:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from SimsS@IBM.Net) Reply-To: From: "Steve Sims" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Best upgrade path to 3.0 Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:37:07 -0400 Message-ID: <001d01bdfee6$6e790500$ba468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Excuse my ignorance; I've been off-list for a while. What's the CVSup tag for 3.0 release? ...sjs... | -----Original Message----- | From: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG | [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Conrad Sabatier | Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 6:37 PM | To: Jamie Howard | Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG | Subject: RE: Best upgrade path to 3.0 | | | | On 19-Oct-98 Jamie Howard wrote: | > This is probably a newbie question, but I have never faced this: | > | > I have a 2.2.7-STABLE system and just CVSupped to 3.0. | Now, what would be | > the proper upgrade procedure? The few docs lying around | suggest that this | > will be very painful because of the ELF conversion. Is | this so? What do | > I do to get around it? | | Painful? Not at all, unless you're the impatient type. :-) | | I just did the same a few days ago with no problems. | | # cd /usr/src | # make aout-to-elf-build | # make aout-to-elf-install (this will also build a new generic kernel) | | After this, you'll just need to update your /etc stuff and | you're in business. | | Good luck. | | -- | Conrad Sabatier | | Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring. | | | | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org | with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 19:10:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA04101 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:10:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.196.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA04094 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:10:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (IDENT:FGpkn+5rlRrW1CW2ER+PrjU9KRdFntE+@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by outmail.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08449; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:09:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp [160.12.42.1]) by zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp (8.7.6+2.6Wbeta7/3.4W/zodiac-May96) with ESMTP id LAA19488; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:10:29 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199810240210.LAA19488@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp> To: Mike Smith cc: David Dawes , FreeBSD hackers mailing list , yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:40:55 MST." <199810231840.LAA00564@dingo.cdrom.com> References: <199810231840.LAA00564@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:10:27 +0900 From: Kazutaka YOKOTA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > - Disable primary VGA compatibility mappings > - Disable primary VGA BIOS mapping > - Foreach non-primary video adapter > - Enable VGA compatibility mappings > - Enable VGA BIOS mapping > - Make BIOS initialisation call(s) > - Disable VGA compatibility mappings > - Disable VGA BIOS mapping > - Ensable primary VGA compatibility mappings > - Ensable primary VGA BIOS mapping > >as well as providing some mechanism for nominating which card of the >set should be mapped at any given time? > >Any ideas as to whether card BIOSses would respond well to having their >initialisation code called in v86 mode rather than real mode? I think >this sort of approach could be quite viable. It's definitely worth trying! Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 20:19:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08450 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:19:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.109]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08442 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:19:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dawes@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.2) id NAA26849; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:18:24 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <19981024131824.D21689@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:18:24 +1000 From: David Dawes To: Mike Smith Cc: Greg Lehey , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <19981023133006.D20302@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> <199810231840.LAA00564@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810231840.LAA00564@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:40:55AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 11:40:55AM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: >> The PCI spec doesn't provide a device-independent way of remapping the >> VGA compatibility resources. They are not relocatable in the sense of >> normal PCI resources defined through the base address registers. In my >> experience, most PCI BIOSs disable memory and I/O access for secondary >> VGA-compatible cards by clearing the appropriate bits in the PCI command >> register. > >Hmm, Ok, I'm obvoiusly out of whack here. This would imply that there's >not an alternate set of mappings that can be enabled to access the same >register sets in any "standard" fashion? Right. >> We (XFree86) are currently grappling with these issues for our multi-head >> support in 4.0. One thing we're hoping to do is multiplex access to >> fixed resources like the VGA-compatiblity registers when needed and when >> they can be disabled but not relocated. If on some OSs the video BIOS >> could be called by the X server, it may help with initialisation issues. >> It might be even better of the OS took care of this at boot time. > >Hmm. I'm working around this area at the moment, although Kazu is >definitely the authority on the matter. I presume you're referring to >something like: > > - Disable primary VGA compatibility mappings > - Disable primary VGA BIOS mapping > - Foreach non-primary video adapter > - Enable VGA compatibility mappings > - Enable VGA BIOS mapping > - Make BIOS initialisation call(s) > - Disable VGA compatibility mappings > - Disable VGA BIOS mapping > - Ensable primary VGA compatibility mappings > - Ensable primary VGA BIOS mapping > >as well as providing some mechanism for nominating which card of the >set should be mapped at any given time? Yes, that's the basic idea. I don't know if you need to remap the BIOS itself. In the cases I've seen the BIOS address for secondary cards is mapped at a high address in the standard PCI way and maybe it can be run from where it is?. It usually defaults to "decode disabled" so you would need to enable PCI MEM and BIOS decode. >Any ideas as to whether card BIOSses would respond well to having their >initialisation code called in v86 mode rather than real mode? I think >this sort of approach could be quite viable. I don't know. It is definitely worth a try. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 22:05:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15773 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:05:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com [207.113.159.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15768 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:05:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (root@sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.191]) by gatekeeper.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA22989; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:04:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gdonl@tsc.tdk.com) Received: from salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com [192.168.241.194]) by sunrise.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10913; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gdonl@localhost) by salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA22700; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Lewis Message-Id: <199810240504.WAA22700@salsa.gv.tsc.tdk.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:04:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: Don Lewis "Re: question about getsid()" (Oct 23, 2:51am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(3) 7/19/95) To: Don Lewis , "Jukka A. Ukkonen" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: question about getsid() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 23, 2:51am, Don Lewis wrote: } Subject: Re: question about getsid() } On Oct 21, 4:19pm, "Jukka A. Ukkonen" wrote: } } Subject: question about getsid() } } } When looking at the 3.0 getsid() code in kern_prot.c I became } } a little hesitant about whether the following code will always } } work... } } } } int } } getsid(p, uap) } } struct proc *p; } } struct getsid_args *uap; } } { } } if (uap->pid == 0) } } goto found; } } } } if ((p == pfind(uap->pid)) == 0) } } return ESRCH; } } found: } } p->p_retval[0] = p->p_pgrp->pg_session->s_leader->p_pid; } } return 0; } } } } } } } What will happen if the process leader has already died? } } Will the original session leader's process struct still be } } around available for reference or will the code fail? } } It looks to me like the code will follow a stale pointer off into } space. I suspect the result will be a bogus return value rather } than a panic. I looked at this some more and it appears I was mistaken. When the session leader exits, exit1() in kern_exit.c does sp->s_leader = NULL; This means that getsid() will dereference the NULL pointer and panic the system. getsid() needs to verify s_leader is not NULL before dereferencing it, but what should getsid() return if there is no session leader? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 23:10:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA19709 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:10:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA19704 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:10:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA17713; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:09:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:09:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Jacques Vidrine cc: Robert Butler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know if there is any decoding capability in tcpdump? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > ``tcpshow's output is simular to Sun Solaris's snoop(1M) command for > network packet capture and inspection.'' > > Note however that it is not real time. It reads a tcpdump packet > output file. While mostly corect, you can use tcpdump and tcpshow in concert over a pipe to effect realtime display. While it is somewhat more cumbersome than snoop, I kind of like having 2 simple (sic) commands rather than 1 large one. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 23:16:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20043 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:16:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20037 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA17747; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:15:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: Nick Hibma cc: Kris Kirby , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Nick Hibma wrote: > x graphics cards with multiple connectors for monitors on the back > (they exist, I believe, otherwise it won't take long, now > windows has multi head support) I've actually got 2 4 port VGA cards in my junkpile. 1 is S3/Virge based and the other is ET4000 based. Each 'port' has 2 meg of memory. I'm a bit short on FreeBSD machines with graphics heads so I've not tested them yet. Relating to this subject the old HP9000/300s could do this trick (2 seats for a single machine). Some of the kit SGI sold for the old Onyx boxes could do this as well. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 23:19:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20246 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:19:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20239; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:19:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17774; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= cc: Scott Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <199810221035.MAA23454@sos.freebsd.dk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. > > Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) But who the heck runs apps on their X display box? Talk about context switch out the ass... -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 23:29:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA20623 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:29:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from paert.tse-online.de (paert.tse-online.de [194.97.69.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20618 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:29:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ab@paert.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 19281 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Oct 1998 06:31:40 -0000 Message-ID: <19981024083139.H365@paert.tse-online.de> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:31:39 +0200 From: Andreas Braukmann To: "Kenneth D. Merry" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: bad sectors Mail-Followup-To: "Kenneth D. Merry" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <19981022233738.J1126@paert.tse-online.de> <199810222310.RAA19256@panzer.plutotech.com> <19981023073056.E365@paert.tse-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93i In-Reply-To: <19981023073056.E365@paert.tse-online.de>; from Andreas Braukmann on Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 07:30:56AM +0200 Organization: TSE TeleService GmbH Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi again, ... I have to admit, that I've simply forgotten to peek into /var/log/messages (the console is 600m away from me). And there are the error messages: Oct 23 07:32:04 paert /kernel: (pass1:ncr0:0:1:0): extraneous data discarded. Oct 23 07:32:05 paert /kernel: (pass1:ncr0:0:1:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @0xf0e88200. -ab On Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 07:30:56AM +0200, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:10:02PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > Andreas Braukmann wrote... > > > from dmesg: > > > da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > > > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > > > da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > > > da1: 8715MB (17850000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1111C) > > > > > > any hints? is it my fault? the drive's fault? > > > > Try a different format (the other choices are 'bfi' and 'block'). Some > > drives don't support all of the different formats. > Hmmm. The results: > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f block -P > error reading defect list: Input/output error > CAM status is 0 > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f phys -P > error reading defect list: Input/output error > CAM status is 0 > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f bfi -P > error reading defect list: Input/output error > CAM status is 0 > > IMHO strange. I get the same for '-G'. > > > the command line, you'll get sense information that will tell you why the > > command is failing. > hhm. The i/o ist failing, but camcontrol doesn't print any sense information. > > Two questions arise: > a) Are the IBM drives supposed to deliver the requested error > information? > > b) I might build a kernel with some CAM-debug options. Would this > be helpful. -- /// TSE TeleService GmbH | Gsf: Arne Reuter | /// Hovestrasse 14 | Andreas Braukmann | We do it with /// D-48351 Everswinkel | HRB: 1430, AG WAF | FreeBSD/SMP /// ------------------------------------------------------------------- /// PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key /// Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Oct 23 23:45:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21175 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:45:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from lor.watermarkgroup.com (lor.watermarkgroup.com [207.202.73.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21170 for ; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:45:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from luoqi@watermarkgroup.com) Received: (from luoqi@localhost) by lor.watermarkgroup.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA00573; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:44:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from luoqi) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:44:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Luoqi Chen Message-Id: <199810240644.CAA00573@lor.watermarkgroup.com> To: Don.Lewis@tsc.tdk.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jau@jau.tmt.tele.fi Subject: Re: question about getsid() Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I looked at this some more and it appears I was mistaken. When the > session leader exits, exit1() in kern_exit.c does > sp->s_leader = NULL; > This means that getsid() will dereference the NULL pointer and panic > the system. > > getsid() needs to verify s_leader is not NULL before dereferencing it, > but what should getsid() return if there is no session leader? > If the session leader is gone, the session losts the ability to acquire a controlling terminal, which is the sole purpose of its existence. This session should be disbanded, and member process groups join session 0. -lq To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 02:09:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA27162 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:09:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles320.castles.com [208.214.167.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA27154; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:08:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA00363; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:12:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810240912.CAA00363@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= , Scott Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:18:11 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:12:56 -0700 From: Mike Smith Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA27155 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. > > > > Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) > > But who the heck runs apps on their X display box? Talk about context > switch out the ass... That's what SMP is for. 8) -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 02:38:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA28316 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:38:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [209.133.7.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA28311 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:38:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA21104; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:37:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hasty@rah.star-gate.com) Message-Id: <199810240937.CAA21104@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:18:11 EDT." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:37:38 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id CAA28312 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: > > > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. > > > > Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) > > But who the heck runs apps on their X display box? Talk about context > switch out the ass... I do all the time for instance make world and watch tv too 8) Cheers, Amancio To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 06:22:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA11500 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:22:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (webbsd1.turnaround.com.au [203.39.138.49]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA11486 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:22:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Received: from TurnAround.com.au (ras4.turnaround.com.au [192.168.1.115]) by WEBBSD1.turnaround.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15572; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:24:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from J_Shevland@TurnAround.com.au) Message-ID: <3631D2DE.94BFC754@TurnAround.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:15:10 +1100 From: Joe Shevland Organization: Turnaround Solutions Pty. Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" CC: Jacques Vidrine , Robert Butler , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Anybody know if there is any decoding capability in tcpdump? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > > ``tcpshow's output is simular to Sun Solaris's snoop(1M) command for > > network packet capture and inspection.'' > > > > Note however that it is not real time. It reads a tcpdump packet > > output file. > > While mostly corect, you can use tcpdump and tcpshow in concert over a > pipe to effect realtime display. While it is somewhat more cumbersome > than snoop, I kind of like having 2 simple (sic) commands rather than 1 > large one. > > -- > | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | > | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message Tad trivial, but thanks to whoever made a reference to the port Ethereal the other day. I downloaded the latest version, compiled and installed smoothly with about 2 commands, and seems an excellent little tool for packet capture if you've got the Gimp Toolkit and X installed. I especially liked the TCP stream follow option for looking at TCP dumps. -- Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 07:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA14557 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:19:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com [206.27.167.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA14552 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:19:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from conrads@as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com) Received: (from conrads@localhost) by as5200-01-254.no.neosoft.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA25597; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 09:15:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from conrads) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <001d01bdfee6$6e790500$ba468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 09:15:54 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: conrads@neosoft.com Organization: NeoSoft, Inc. From: Conrad Sabatier To: Steve Sims Subject: RE: Best upgrade path to 3.0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 24-Oct-98 Steve Sims wrote: > Excuse my ignorance; I've been off-list for a while. > > What's the CVSup tag for 3.0 release? Unless you have some specific reason(s) for wanting the RELEASE version, why not just use tag=. and get all the post-release updates/fixes as well? I saw the tag for 3.0-RELEASE in a recent message (RELENG_3_0_0, I think), but I'm not sure if I remember it right. :-) -- Conrad Sabatier Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards. -- Aldous Huxley To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 11:19:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28548 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:19:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28542; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:19:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from Celeris (56k-port4029.ime.net [209.90.195.39]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23589; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:19:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981024111510.00a65100@genesis.ispace.com> Message-Id: <4.1.0.67.19981024111510.00a65100@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1.0.67 (Beta) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:16:34 -0400 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" , =?X-UNKNOWN?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD Cc: Scott Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: <199810221035.MAA23454@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id LAA28543 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It matters entirly on if I'm at the blasted thing :).. Kinda a tedious process to plug a monitor and a keyboard and mouse into it for the sole purpose of webwhacking.. The easier portal for most WinStink (Windoze, Winblows, etc) networks is to get a copy of Netmanage's Unixlink 97. While I may not like Windows, it's a pretty decent piece of software for the bridge between platforms.. At 02:18 AM 10/24/98 -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: >On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: >> > spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. >> >> Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) > >But who the heck runs apps on their X display box? Talk about context >switch out the ass... > >-- >| Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | >| winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | >| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange 207-942-0275 http://www.droo.orland.me.us My Latest Kernel: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT (ONEEX) #14: Mon Oct 19 22:36:58 EDT 1998 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 11:48:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00367 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:48:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.4.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00361 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:48:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from k.stevenson@louisville.edu) Received: from homer.louisville.edu (ktstev01@homer.it-datacntr.louisville.edu [136.165.1.20]) by unix1.it-datacntr.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19750; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:47:55 -0400 Received: (from ktstev01@localhost) by homer.louisville.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25437; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19981024144753.A24415@homer.louisville.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:47:53 -0400 From: Keith Stevenson To: Brian Somers Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ppp improvements for dynamic IPs References: <199810221232.NAA12444@woof.lan.awfulhak.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810221232.NAA12444@woof.lan.awfulhak.org>; from Brian Somers on Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 01:32:48PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I just installed the new code and everything seems to work as advertised. The "first-connection" problem is gone and no new bugs appear to have been introduced. I tested connecting both with my FreeBSD console and from the Windows boxen on the private network behind it. Thanks for the fix! Any idea when/if it will be committed to Stable? Regards, --Keith Stevenson-- -- Keith Stevenson System Programmer - Data Center Services - University of Louisville k.stevenson@louisville.edu PGP key fingerprint = 4B 29 A8 95 A8 82 EA A2 29 CE 68 DE FC EE B6 A0 On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 01:32:48PM +0100, Brian Somers wrote: > Ppp has just been updated with some code that should work around the > ``first connection'' problem for people running in -auto -alias mode > with dynamic IPs. > > Previously, the program that caused the dial up would never connect > although programs started after the dialup is complete would. Now, > everything should ``just work''. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 11:53:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA00717 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:53:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles209.castles.com [208.214.165.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00712 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA05458; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:56:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810241856.LAA05458@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: David Dawes cc: Mike Smith , Greg Lehey , Jason Thorpe , Nick Hibma , FreeBSD hackers mailing list Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:18:24 +1000." <19981024131824.D21689@rf900.physics.usyd.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 11:56:49 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > >Hmm. I'm working around this area at the moment, although Kazu is > >definitely the authority on the matter. I presume you're referring to > >something like: > > > > - Disable primary VGA compatibility mappings > > - Disable primary VGA BIOS mapping > > - Foreach non-primary video adapter > > - Enable VGA compatibility mappings > > - Enable VGA BIOS mapping > > - Make BIOS initialisation call(s) > > - Disable VGA compatibility mappings > > - Disable VGA BIOS mapping > > - Ensable primary VGA compatibility mappings > > - Ensable primary VGA BIOS mapping > > > >as well as providing some mechanism for nominating which card of the > >set should be mapped at any given time? > > Yes, that's the basic idea. I don't know if you need to remap the > BIOS itself. In the cases I've seen the BIOS address for secondary > cards is mapped at a high address in the standard PCI way and maybe it > can be run from where it is?. It usually defaults to "decode disabled" > so you would need to enable PCI MEM and BIOS decode. Given the difficulty of writing PIC code on the i386, and given that the BIOS code will normally never be tested in any other situation, I'd have to suspect that there's a pretty good chance that it won't run anywhere else. It'd be possible to map it from wherever-else back to the default location within the vm86 context, but that's probably more work than necessary > >Any ideas as to whether card BIOSses would respond well to having their > >initialisation code called in v86 mode rather than real mode? I think > >this sort of approach could be quite viable. > > I don't know. It is definitely worth a try. Ok; Kazu sounded keen, so I expect we'll hear something from that direction when he's got some ideas on how to achieve it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 12:08:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01980 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:08:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles209.castles.com [208.214.165.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01938 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:08:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA05590; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:11:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810241911.MAA05590@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: selvaraj@sri.lanka.net (K.S.Selvarajan, Vavuniya Campus, Univesity of Jaffna, Vavuniya, Sri Lanka) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:30:37 +0600." <199810220230.IAA05174@sri.lanka.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:11:18 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Please do not send emulation-related questions to the -hackers list. > I am using FreeBSD 2.2.2. Recently I have got Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for > LINUX 2.0.34. It was installed on the FreeBSD 2.2.2 with LINUX emulation. Oracle will not run on FreeBSD at this stage. It is likely that it will not be supported on the 2.2.x family at all. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 13:09:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05567 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from beatrice.rutgers.edu (beatrice.rutgers.edu [165.230.209.143]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05562 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu) Received: (from easmith@localhost) by beatrice.rutgers.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA02216; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:08:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Allen Smith" Message-Id: <9810241608.ZM2214@beatrice.rutgers.edu> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:08:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: Jacques Vidrine "xntpd and securelevel" (Oct 9, 6:23pm) References: <361DEC25.30065DCC@Triplan.COM> <361E3DE4.39F057F4@gorean.org> <199810091757.KAA10402@rip.psg.com> <361E4FE8.2EF1B5DA@gorean.org> <199810091845.LAA11689@rip.psg.com> <361E5F28.1DE06387@gorean.org> <199810091911.MAA12445@rip.psg.com> <199810091959.MAA13804@rip.psg.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: Jacques Vidrine , Randy Bush Subject: Re: xntpd and securelevel Cc: Studded , Marc Gutschner , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Oct 9, 6:23pm, Jacques Vidrine (possibly) wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > [[Moving thread to hackers@freebsd.org, and changing subject]] > > Oh, duh... ntpdate (and I guess xntpd, too) use settimeofday... > settimeofday calls settime... extract from settime: > > /* > * If the system is secure, we do not allow the time to be > * set to an earlier value (it may be slowed using adjtime, > * but not set back). This feature prevent interlopers from > * setting arbitrary time stamps on files. > */ > if (delta.tv_sec < 0 && securelevel > 1) { > splx(s); > return (EPERM); > } > > So if you need to go back in time, you can't be at securelevel > 1. > Seems like a good thing to me. However, xntpd still should be able > to make small adjustments. > > Any xntpd experts here that can comment on when xntpd uses settimeofday > versus adjtime? Perhaps it has to do with the size of adjustment that > must be made? I don't know about xntpd, but ntpd by default uses the equivalent of settime (via ntp_adjtime) when the setting is .128 seconds or more. -Allen -- Allen Smith easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 14:14:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08482 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:14:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from panzer.plutotech.com (panzer.plutotech.com [206.168.67.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08477 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:14:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ken@panzer.plutotech.com) Received: (from ken@localhost) by panzer.plutotech.com (8.9.1/8.8.5) id PAA02688; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:13:47 -0600 (MDT) From: "Kenneth D. Merry" Message-Id: <199810242113.PAA02688@panzer.plutotech.com> Subject: Re: bad sectors In-Reply-To: <19981024083139.H365@paert.tse-online.de> from Andreas Braukmann at "Oct 24, 98 08:31:39 am" To: braukmann@tse-online.de (Andreas Braukmann) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28s (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andreas Braukmann wrote... > Hi again, > > ... I have to admit, that I've simply forgotten to peek into > /var/log/messages (the console is 600m away from me). > And there are the error messages: > > Oct 23 07:32:04 paert /kernel: (pass1:ncr0:0:1:0): extraneous data discarded. > Oct 23 07:32:05 paert /kernel: (pass1:ncr0:0:1:0): COMMAND FAILED (9 0) @0xf0e88200. Well, that explains some things, I guess. :) It at least explains why the command is coming back with no SCSI sense information. It shouldn't be coming back with a CAM status of 0, though, since that means the request is still in progress. (it obviously isn't) I don't know how to decipher NCR error messages, though, so I can't tell you why the command is failing. :( > On Fri, Oct 23, 1998 at 07:30:56AM +0200, Andreas Braukmann wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 05:10:02PM -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote: > > > Andreas Braukmann wrote... > > > > from dmesg: > > > > da1 at ncr0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0 > > > > da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI2 device > > > > da1: 40.0MB/s transfers (20.0MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled > > > > da1: 8715MB (17850000 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1111C) > > > > > > > > any hints? is it my fault? the drive's fault? > > > > > > Try a different format (the other choices are 'bfi' and 'block'). Some > > > drives don't support all of the different formats. > > Hmmm. The results: > > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f block -P > > error reading defect list: Input/output error > > CAM status is 0 > > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f phys -P > > error reading defect list: Input/output error > > CAM status is 0 > > paert# camcontrol defects -v -n da -u 1 -f bfi -P > > error reading defect list: Input/output error > > CAM status is 0 > > > > IMHO strange. I get the same for '-G'. > > > > > the command line, you'll get sense information that will tell you why the > > > command is failing. > > hhm. The i/o ist failing, but camcontrol doesn't print any sense information. > > > > Two questions arise: > > a) Are the IBM drives supposed to deliver the requested error > > information? Yes, they are. I've got IBM drives that will happily report their bad block information. > > b) I might build a kernel with some CAM-debug options. Would this > > be helpful. I doubt it, really. The reason is that there are two types of debugging information you can get from the kernel: - function-level tracing - CDB printouts The latter is the only one that is really useful. In this case, we know what command is getting sent to the disk, because it's created in camcontrol and passed down through the passthrough driver. It looks like the NCR driver is spitting the command out for some reason. I don't know what that reason is, however. Sorry. Stefan Esser would probably be able to tell you what the NCR error messages mean. Ken -- Kenneth Merry ken@plutotech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 14:19:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA08718 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:19:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com ([207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA08710 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29825; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA22743; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981024141838.B22027@thought.org> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:18:38 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: conrads@neosoft.com, Steve Sims Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best upgrade path to 3.0 References: <001d01bdfee6$6e790500$ba468094@Elvis.RatsNest.VaBeach.Va.Us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Conrad Sabatier on Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:15:54AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:15:54AM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > On 24-Oct-98 Steve Sims wrote: > > Excuse my ignorance; I've been off-list for a while. > > > > What's the CVSup tag for 3.0 release? > Quick related question: is there a similar tag for the 2.2.8 release? I'm just beginning to familiarize myself with cvsup and will probably wind up buying the 4-CD set. .... gary -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 14:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA09064 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (castles209.castles.com [208.214.165.209]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA09059 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:25:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03190; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199810242128.OAA03190@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Gary Kline cc: conrads@neosoft.com, Steve Sims , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best upgrade path to 3.0 In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:18:38 PDT." <19981024141838.B22027@thought.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:28:19 -0700 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:15:54AM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > > > On 24-Oct-98 Steve Sims wrote: > > > Excuse my ignorance; I've been off-list for a while. > > > > > > What's the CVSup tag for 3.0 release? > > > > Quick related question: is there a similar tag for the 2.2.8 > release? I'm just beginning to familiarize myself with cvsup > and will probably wind up buying the 4-CD set. All release tags have the form RELENG_x_x_x_RELEASE, where the x's are the three version digits. There is no tag for 2.2.8 as it hasn't happened yet. You can follow the tree up to (and past) 2.2.8 using the RELENG_2_2 branch tag. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 16:36:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15765 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:36:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15760 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:36:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA22805; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:36:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpd022796; Sat Oct 24 16:36:06 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00403; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:36:05 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810242336.QAA00403@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 To: mike@smith.net.au (Mike Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:36:05 +0000 (GMT) Cc: selvaraj@sri.lanka.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199810241911.MAA05590@dingo.cdrom.com> from "Mike Smith" at Oct 24, 98 12:11:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Please do not send emulation-related questions to the -hackers list. > > > I am using FreeBSD 2.2.2. Recently I have got Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for > > LINUX 2.0.34. It was installed on the FreeBSD 2.2.2 with LINUX emulation. > > Oracle will not run on FreeBSD at this stage. It is likely that it > will not be supported on the 2.2.x family at all. Unless you get the version of Oracle that Oracle sells on their FreeBSD-running NC server, in which case it runs great on 2.2.6 and above. This would incidently make it a FreeBSD issue instead of a Linux emulation issue, killing two birds with one stone. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 16:39:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA16015 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:39:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp02.primenet.com (smtp02.primenet.com [206.165.6.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16010 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:39:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert@usr01.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp02.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA26858; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:38:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr01.primenet.com(206.165.6.201) via SMTP by smtp02.primenet.com, id smtpd026843; Sat Oct 24 16:38:31 1998 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr01.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00468; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:38:30 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199810242338.QAA00468@usr01.primenet.com> Subject: Re: xntpd and securelevel To: easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu (Allen Smith) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:38:29 +0000 (GMT) Cc: n@nectar.com, randy@psg.com, Studded@gorean.org, Marc.Gutschner@triplan.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <9810241608.ZM2214@beatrice.rutgers.edu> from "Allen Smith" at Oct 24, 98 04:08:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > So if you need to go back in time, you can't be at securelevel > 1. Or you can just run the new clock code, and your processes will randomly go back in time, and die, if you have a 486DX/4 or Cyrix processor. 8-|. Maybe I should try putting the machine where this happens into "secure" mode to see if it still happens... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 17:15:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18636 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:15:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gershwin.tera.com (gershwin.tera.com [207.224.230.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18631 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:15:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kline@tao.thought.org) Received: from tao.thought.org (tao.tera.com [207.108.223.55]) by gershwin.tera.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01275; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kline@localhost) by tao.thought.org (8.8.8/8.7.3) id RAA23795; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19981024171500.D22027@thought.org> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:15:00 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Mike Smith Cc: conrads@neosoft.com, Steve Sims , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Best upgrade path to 3.0 References: <19981024141838.B22027@thought.org> <199810242128.OAA03190@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199810242128.OAA03190@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 02:28:19PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 02:28:19PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 09:15:54AM -0500, Conrad Sabatier wrote: > > > > > > On 24-Oct-98 Steve Sims wrote: > > > > Excuse my ignorance; I've been off-list for a while. > > > > > > > > What's the CVSup tag for 3.0 release? > > > > > > > Quick related question: is there a similar tag for the 2.2.8 > > release? I'm just beginning to familiarize myself with cvsup > > and will probably wind up buying the 4-CD set. > > All release tags have the form RELENG_x_x_x_RELEASE, where the x's are > the three version digits. There is no tag for 2.2.8 as it hasn't > happened yet. You can follow the tree up to (and past) 2.2.8 using the > RELENG_2_2 branch tag. > > Okay, thanks, Mike. I'm still at 2.2.6 and should upgrade either this box or my other... Guess there's no teacher like experience.... gary > -- Gary D. Kline kline@tao.thought.org Public service uNix To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 17:16:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA18738 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:16:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from picnic.mat.net (picnic.mat.net [206.246.122.117]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA18733 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:16:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chuckr@mat.net) Received: from localhost (chuckr@localhost) by picnic.mat.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA08037; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 20:13:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey To: Terry Lambert cc: Mike Smith , selvaraj@sri.lanka.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for LINUX 2.0.34 In-Reply-To: <199810242336.QAA00403@usr01.primenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Please do not send emulation-related questions to the -hackers list. > > > > > I am using FreeBSD 2.2.2. Recently I have got Oracle8 Release 8.0.5 for > > > LINUX 2.0.34. It was installed on the FreeBSD 2.2.2 with LINUX emulation. > > > > Oracle will not run on FreeBSD at this stage. It is likely that it > > will not be supported on the 2.2.x family at all. > > Unless you get the version of Oracle that Oracle sells on their > FreeBSD-running NC server, in which case it runs great on 2.2.6 > and above. > > This would incidently make it a FreeBSD issue instead of a Linux > emulation issue, killing two birds with one stone. 8-). Last time I heard from John Dyson on this list about that, the FreeBSD version wasn't a publicly available thing. Love to have it, I'm doing a Oracle class project now, and it sure would be lovely to have (drool!) ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chuckr@glue.umd.edu | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run Journey2 and picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (NetBSD). ----------------------------+----------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 19:00:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA25551 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 19:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25541; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 19:00:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA04485; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:29:29 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id MAA16706; Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:29:28 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <19981025122928.B16609@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:29:28 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Matthew N. Dodd" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F8ren_Schmidt?= Cc: Scott Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: multi-user: multiple consoles in FreeBSD References: <199810221035.MAA23454@sos.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Matthew N. Dodd on Sat, Oct 24, 1998 at 02:18:11AM -0400 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 24 October 1998 at 2:18:11 -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Søren Schmidt wrote: >>> spending 90% of its time idling seems like a fine idea. >> >> Yeah, as long as you dont run anything like netscape & staroffice then ;-) > > But who the heck runs apps on their X display box? I do. > Talk about context switch out the ass... Have you tried it? I don't have any problems. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Oct 24 21:39:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA05717 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from polysynaptic.iq.org (frame-gw.iq.org [203.4.184.233] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05705 for ; Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:39:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from proff@polysynaptic.iq.org) Received: (qmail 8237 invoked by uid 110); 25 Oct 1998 04:39:02 -0000 Date: 25 Oct 1998 04:39:02 -0000 Message-ID: <19981025043902.8236.qmail@polysynaptic.iq.org> From: Julian Assange To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Travel plans. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm about to escape from the perils of a summer in ``the planet's most livable city'' (Melbourne, Australia) and go treking about the worlderful world of snow, ice, slush, and imploding communism. I'll be hop-scotching though the US, Western/Eastern europe, Russia, Mongolia and China (in that order). If anyone feels like getting together for beer, vodka, Siberian bear steak, or just a good yarn, please let me know. What follows is a (very) approximate itinerary. Home-grown accommodation, a warm hearth, pulsating ethernet, interesting company (or a pointer to it) is capable of shifting dates and leagues. I am backpacking through eastern Europe and Siberia, so no hovel, couch or spare room is too small (even in the SF bay area), and would be highly thought of :) 28 Oct 98 San Francisco 05 Nov 98 London 06 Nov 98 Frankfurt/Berlin 09 Nov 98 Poland / Slovenia / eastern-europe-on-a-shoe-string 15 Nov 98 Helsinki 16 Nov 98 St. Petersburg 20 Nov 98 Moscow (trans-siberian express) -> 25 Nov 98 Irtutsk 29 Nov 98 Ulan Bator 03 Dec 98 Beijing Cheers, Julian. -- Julian Assange |If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks proff@iq.org |and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message