From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 13:33: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B99837B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:33:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f68KWuY01417; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:32:56 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:16:37 +0200 To: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Things you learn in school Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 5:56 PM -0400 7/7/01, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > * Linux is the choice for implementing webservices because it runs on > any type of hardware. Yeah, right. How many different types of hardware does Linux run on? And how many different types of hardware does NetBSD run on? Anyone who makes a claim like this for Linux obviously hasn't done their homework, and shouldn't be teaching people who might not be expected to know these kinds of things.... -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 15:33:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699E737B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id C46336ACC1; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:03:30 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:03:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Brad Knowles Cc: "Pedro F. Giffuni" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from brad.knowles@skynet.be on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 10:16:37PM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 8 July 2001 at 22:16:37 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 5:56 PM -0400 7/7/01, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > >> * Linux is the choice for implementing webservices because it runs on >> any type of hardware. > > Yeah, right. How many different types of hardware does Linux > run on? And how many different types of hardware does NetBSD run > on? Anyone who makes a claim like this for Linux obviously hasn't > done their homework, and shouldn't be teaching people who might not > be expected to know these kinds of things.... OK, let's take a look. RS/6000? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't really. Ultra SPARC with PCI bus? Linux does. Last time I looked, NetBSD didn't. S/390? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. SMP machines? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. Especially from an IBM point of view, this points very much to Linux as being the more portable system. I don't think anybody cares very much whether Linux runs on a Sun 3. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 15:54:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2A537B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:54:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from Atlanta.threespace.com ([24.21.224.204]) by femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010708225447.SLAC59.femail22.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Atlanta.threespace.com> for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:54:47 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708185257.017ad6c0@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:54:38 -0400 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: Re: "Opposing" the "competition" (was: FreeBSD spokesman (was: Sowhat happens to FreeBSD now?)) In-Reply-To: <20010708155251.D80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3B45185B.82718445@rebel.net.au> <3B45185B.82718445@rebel.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:22 AM 7/8/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: >That's not the point, though. Some things are better in BSD, other >things are better in Linux. For most people, they're pretty much the >same. It's just us techheads who fight about minor differences. Well, I'm glad that at least *one* of you guys has finally realized this last point. :-) --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 16:42:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AAF237B401; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1091"@[136.142.21.68]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K5P7MP7P54005PQT@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:42:41 EST Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 19:44:46 -0700 From: Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) To: Greg Lehey Cc: Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.org Message-id: <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey wrote: > ... > > OK, let's take a look. RS/6000? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't really. > Ultra SPARC with PCI bus? Linux does. Last time I looked, NetBSD > didn't. S/390? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. SMP machines? Linux > does, NetBSD doesn't. > > Especially from an IBM point of view, this points very much to Linux > as being the more portable system. I don't think anybody cares very > much whether Linux runs on a Sun 3. > Admitedly, NetBSD and Linux offer interesting features for platforms that are already dying, but I don't think it's a real option for new equipment. The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an IBM PPC to run Linux on it? I mean serious users trying to use it for business purposes. FWIW I have a DEC 3000/300 in my office; although I could run NetBSD on it some day (and someone said it's faster), the first choice is Tru64 (which is still there). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 16:55:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0794F37B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id EF6116ACBC; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:25:24 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:25:24 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Pedro F Giffuni Cc: Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709092524.J80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu>; from pfg1+@pitt.edu on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 07:44:46PM -0700 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sunday, 8 July 2001 at 19:44:46 -0700, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: > Greg Lehey wrote: > ... >> >> OK, let's take a look. RS/6000? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't really. >> Ultra SPARC with PCI bus? Linux does. Last time I looked, NetBSD >> didn't. S/390? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. SMP machines? Linux >> does, NetBSD doesn't. >> >> Especially from an IBM point of view, this points very much to Linux >> as being the more portable system. I don't think anybody cares very >> much whether Linux runs on a Sun 3. >> > > Admitedly, NetBSD and Linux offer interesting features for platforms > that are already dying, but I don't think it's a real option for new > equipment. > > The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an > IBM PPC to run Linux on it? I can't give you any feedback on SPARC, but people do, indeed, buy RS/6000s to run Linux on them. The larger RS/6000s have a VM feature which allows you to run different operating systems on different processors, so AIX and Linux can coexist on the same system at the same time. I'm currently investigating getting NetBSD or FreeBSD running on these machines. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 16:56: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5126137B401; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA54364; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:55:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Pedro F Giffuni Cc: Greg Lehey , Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Jul 2001 01:55:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> Message-ID: Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Pedro F Giffuni writes: > The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an IBM > PPC to run Linux on it? I mean serious users trying to use it for > business purposes. Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 16:57:31 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from heorot.1nova.com (heorot.1nova.com [63.105.24.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1104A37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:57:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hamellr@1nova.com) Received: by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C8CB018DB; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by heorot.1nova.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00B118DA; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hamell To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an IBM > > PPC to run Linux on it? I mean serious users trying to use it for > > business purposes. > > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. I'm saving up to buy an Ultra Sparc right now... NetBSD or Linux will be installed first thing. :) Rick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 16:57:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEA637B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:57:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 723836ACC1; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:27:43 +0930 (CST) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:27:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Pedro F Giffuni , Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709092743.K80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:55:55AM +0200 Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Monday, 9 July 2001 at 1:55:55 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Pedro F Giffuni writes: >> The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an IBM >> PPC to run Linux on it? I mean serious users trying to use it for >> business purposes. > > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. I don't think any free operating system comes close to Solaris or AIX when it comes to SMP scalability. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 17: 7:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2922037B403; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:07:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA54537; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:07:40 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Greg Lehey Cc: Pedro F Giffuni , Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> <20010709092743.K80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Jul 2001 02:07:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20010709092743.K80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Greg Lehey writes: > On Monday, 9 July 2001 at 1:55:55 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. > I don't think any free operating system comes close to Solaris or AIX > when it comes to SMP scalability. Possibly not, but the cheap UltraSPARC aren't SMP ones. I believe you specifically mentioned PCI-equipped UltraSPARCs, and unless I missed something those are mostly workstations and low-end servers, such as those little 1U watchumacallits Sun is hawking for less than $1000. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 18:31:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 40E6437B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:31:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 66737 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 01:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.199) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 01:31:24 -0000 Message-ID: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:30:51 +1200 From: Craig Harding Reply-To: bollocks@bollocks.net.nz Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smoking crack! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've been having numerous problems over the last 2 days getting a new 20GB IDE drive (Quantum, 7200RPM) working in an older (Win98, P2 233) machine here. It's our video edit machine that I needed desperately to do work on, so I didn't want to noodle endlessly replacing motherboards and other components unnecessarily. The existing system drive died Fri night/Sat morning, I was able to get the replacement drive on Saturday. If you're familiar with Win9x, you'll be aware that Windows likes to reboot after almost every configuration change / package installation. Which I'm doing a lot of, installing all the special drivers and applications on this new drive. But about half the time it'd do a proper Windows shutdown & restart only to do a scandisk on boot, indicating the disk wasn't been left clean prior to reboot. About a quarter of the time it'd report a corrupt registry and all the system config changes I'd made in the last hour (eg turning off the f***ing active desktop BS) would be lost. I got annoyed, and suspicious. It looked like some kind of problem with write caching, as if the disk contents weren't being updated properly prior to the reboot. I wondered if there was a problem with the drive, I checked motherboard compatibility issues, I installed updates and patches, all to no avail. I searched the MS knowledge base and found zip. Time passed. My frustration levels (with a deadline ticking away for a video rough edit to be completed) increased. And then I chanced upon the Win98 critical updates (yes, I know I should have looked there earlier). And I found this: http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WUCritical/q273017/Default.asp Here is an excerpt: > Windows IDE Hard Drive Cache Package > > The Windows IDE Hard Drive Cache Package provides a workaround to > a recently identified issue with computers that have the combination > of Integrated Drive Electronics (IDE) hard disk drives with large > caches and newer/faster processors. Computers with this combination > may risk losing data if the hard disk shuts down before it can > preserve the data in its cache. The update references the following KB article, which I didn't find while searching (using such esoteric search terms as "write cache"). http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q273/0/17.asp So I found a solution. But check out Microsoft's detailed explanation of the problem: > Older processors typically execute the shutdown code slowly enough > that the hard disk's cache flushed the written data to the physical > media before the machine lost power. As processors have increased > in speed, the shutdown time has decreased to the point that data > may still be in the hardware cache when a computer is turned off, > and that data may be lost. In other words, Windows doesn't actually do anything to ensure that a HD write cache is written to disk before restarting, it just hopes that the shutdown procedure is slow enough (and the cache small enough) that the drive will have time to flush its cache before Windows pulls the plug. And you'll really like this bit: > This is not a problem that is specific to Windows, or any given > operating system, for that matter. Nor is it specific to any one > brand of processor or hardware -- it is an industry-wide issue > that affects a variety of vendors Not to mention their solution: > This update introduces a slight delay in the shutdown process. > The delay of two seconds allows the hard drive's onboard cache > to write any data to the hard drive. Gee, so they wait 2 seconds, and then reboot. That's clever. "sync sync sync" anyone? Is FreeBSD's IDE driver a little more intelligent? -- C. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 Outpost Digital Media Ltd http://www.outpost.co.nz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 18:33:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A115237B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:33:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from moeller@dophnic.yi.org) Received: from homer.localdomain (pool-63.52.198.149.dlls.grid.net [63.52.198.149]) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA07725 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from derekm by homer.localdomain with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian)) id 15JPqG-0000E8-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:28:04 -0500 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:28:04 -0500 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010708202804.A835@dophnic.yi.org> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i In-Reply-To: <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com>; from grog@FreeBSD.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:03:30AM +0930 From: Derek Moeller Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 08:03:30AM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Sunday, 8 July 2001 at 22:16:37 +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: > > At 5:56 PM -0400 7/7/01, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > >> * Linux is the choice for implementing webservices because it runs on > >> any type of hardware. > > > > Yeah, right. How many different types of hardware does Linux > > run on? And how many different types of hardware does NetBSD run > > on? Anyone who makes a claim like this for Linux obviously hasn't > > done their homework, and shouldn't be teaching people who might not > > be expected to know these kinds of things.... > > OK, let's take a look. RS/6000? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't really. > Ultra SPARC with PCI bus? Linux does. Last time I looked, NetBSD > didn't. S/390? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. SMP machines? Linux > does, NetBSD doesn't. > > Especially from an IBM point of view, this points very much to Linux > as being the more portable system. I don't think anybody cares very > much whether Linux runs on a Sun 3. As far as I can tell, portability doesn't have very much commercial attraction. The original professor stated that the reason why Linux is the choice for implementing web services is the fact that it runs on any type of hardware. That's obviously wrong, but the reason[1] it's wrong is because portability is largely irrelevant in that context, not because some other platform is more or less portable than Linux. While FreeBSD has comparatively little platform portability, it's still quite effective as far as network and disk performance go (areas which significantly affect web service viability). Besides, if one observes the choice for implementing web services based on popularity, the prize goes to one of the least portable platforms in the group, made by some Redmond company. Since it is not specified otherwise, the term 'The choice' should be simplified to the number of people or organizations choosing that software. The web service platform of choice doesn't have a whole lot to do with technical traits; it has a whole lot to do with product promotion fed by large bank rolls (a symbiotic relationship). [1] This is observing the most prominent error in the statement, ignoring incorrect phrases such as "any type of hardware." -- Derek Moeller To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 19:14:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7ECE37B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:14:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA55046; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:13:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: bollocks@bollocks.net.nz Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smoking crack! References: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Jul 2001 04:13:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Craig Harding writes: > Gee, so they wait 2 seconds, and then reboot. That's clever. "sync sync > sync" anyone? Is FreeBSD's IDE driver a little more intelligent? IDE drives suck. Get over it. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 20:27:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6035537B401; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:27:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11814; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:27:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212555.046ddde0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:27:10 -0600 To: Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 04:33 PM 7/8/2001, Greg Lehey wrote: >OK, let's take a look. RS/6000? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't really. >Ultra SPARC with PCI bus? Linux does. Last time I looked, NetBSD >didn't. S/390? Linux does, NetBSD doesn't. SMP machines? Linux >does, NetBSD doesn't. Wow, Greg... you certainly are an excellent spokesperson for Linux. :-S --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 20:37:52 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A468937B403; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11899; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212832.046de430@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:37:19 -0600 To: Pedro F Giffuni , Greg Lehey From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:44 PM 7/8/2001, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: >Admitedly, NetBSD and Linux offer interesting features for platforms >that are already dying, but I don't think it's a real option for new >equipment. NetBSD shows great promise for Itanium and Sledgehammer. See http://www.wasabisystems.com/news/pr20010622.html Also, NetBSD is apparently incorporating Jon Lemmon's excellent work on the Kqueue APIs (which Linux does not implement). See http://www.openmagazine.net/guestcolumn/01/01/24/239215.shtml This API is the most innovative solution to multiple event handling since the Amiga Exec.... --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 20:46:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8BF37B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:46:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11966; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708214340.046dd8e0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 21:45:58 -0600 To: bollocks@bollocks.net.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smoking crack! In-Reply-To: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:30 PM 7/8/2001, Craig Harding wrote: >In other words, Windows doesn't actually do anything to ensure that a HD >write cache is written to disk before restarting, To be fair, no one can except by turning off lazy writes. This is what Softupdates does in FreeBSD, and it does incur a performance hit (though it's worth it, IMHO). --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 21:52:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDD737B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:52:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1159"@[136.142.21.254]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K5PIGAVELW0037OR@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:52:06 EST Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:54:11 -0700 From: Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smoking crack! To: bollocks@bollocks.net.nz Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3B496323.B9F8996F@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Craig Harding wrote: > .. > > This update introduces a slight delay in the shutdown process. > > The delay of two seconds allows the hard drive's onboard cache > > to write any data to the hard drive. > > Gee, so they wait 2 seconds, and then reboot. That's clever. "sync sync > sync" anyone? Is FreeBSD's IDE driver a little more intelligent? > We don't detach the drivers when shutting down do we?? Independently of the fact that IDE drives suck, someone should check out if we turn off the cache (when this is possible) as part of the shutdown procedure. In FreeBSD this problem is not so serious though, since rebooting is not a ritual as in Windows :). Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 22: 3:39 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost-1.inspire.net.nz [203.79.88.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C063337B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:03:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 69124 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 05:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.199) by outpost-4.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 05:03:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3B493AFE.24377793@outpost.co.nz> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:02:55 +1200 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smokingcrack! References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708214340.046dd8e0@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:30 PM 7/8/2001, Craig Harding wrote: > > >In other words, Windows doesn't actually do anything to ensure that a HD > >write cache is written to disk before restarting, > > To be fair, no one can except by turning off lazy writes. This is what > Softupdates does in FreeBSD, and it does incur a performance hit > (though it's worth it, IMHO). The tech docs I downloaded from Maxtor's website for this drive (a Quantum Fireball Plus AS 20GB) list a "flush cache" command which would presumably do the trick on a shutdown. Is this not a standard ATA command? > FLUSH CACHE > COMMAND CODE – E7h > DESCRIPTION – The FLUSH CACHE command allows the HOST to request the > device to flush (empty) the write cache. When the host issues this > command, the drives sets BSY and proceeds to write all the cached data > to the media. -- C. -- Craig Harding crh@outpost.co.nz ICQ# 26701833 Outpost Digital Media Ltd http://www.outpost.co.nz To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 22:31: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 351C537B401 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1250"@[136.142.21.254]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K5PJSGVJSE0039UJ@mb1i0.ns.pitt.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 01:30:56 EST Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 01:33:02 -0700 From: Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3B496C3E.F0C25D31@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212832.046de430@localhost> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And they beat us by implementing Scheduler Activations first and they also incorporated John Dyson's (actually FreeBSD's) pipes code. We are all advancing, there's no doubt, but I still see good reasons for choosing the commercial OS on these platforms. I recall someone is Slashdot complained abut the lack of distributions for the SPARC. I have no way to masure this but it's really difficult to find commercial Linux distributions for non PCs although the PPC is starting to gain interest. Pedro. Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:44 PM 7/8/2001, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: > > >Admitedly, NetBSD and Linux offer interesting features for platforms > >that are already dying, but I don't think it's a real option for new > >equipment. > > NetBSD shows great promise for Itanium and Sledgehammer. See > > http://www.wasabisystems.com/news/pr20010622.html > > Also, NetBSD is apparently incorporating Jon Lemmon's > excellent work on the Kqueue APIs (which Linux does not > implement). See > > http://www.openmagazine.net/guestcolumn/01/01/24/239215.shtml > > This API is the most innovative solution to multiple event handling > since the Amiga Exec.... > > --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 23: 0:21 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from phaidor.thuvia.org (thuvia.demon.co.uk [193.237.34.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146E437B405; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:00:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mark@thuvia.demon.co.uk) Received: from dotar-sojat.thuvia.org (dotar-sojat.thuvia.org [10.0.0.4]) by phaidor.thuvia.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6961cE21969; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:01:39 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark@dotar-sojat.thuvia.org) Received: (from mark@localhost) by dotar-sojat.thuvia.org (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f6960ft42331; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:00:41 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from mark) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:00:41 +0100 (BST) From: Mark Valentine Message-Id: <200107090600.f6960ft42331@dotar-sojat.thuvia.org> In-Reply-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav's message of Jul 9, 12:01am X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 beta(5) 10/07/98) To: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav), Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: Greg Lehey , Brad Knowles , chat@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > From: des@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) > Date: Mon 9 Jul, 2001 > Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) > Pedro F Giffuni writes: > > The problem is: how many people actually buy a new Ultra SPARC or an IBM > > PPC to run Linux on it? I mean serious users trying to use it for > > business purposes. > > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. Solaris is far from perfect, but it's better for my digestion than Linux... When I have to hack around something on Solaris, I can generally see why things are the way they are; with Linux, I just cuss and do my best. (Though everything else non-BSD still available seems to be worse; Linux is #3 on my list of preferences. #1 & #2 vary depending on need [Purify is damn useful at times]. I just hope I never have to resort to #3...) If only Sun would release a worthy mid-range followup to the SPARCstation 5 or Ultra 1... Cheers, Mark. -- Mark Valentine, Thuvia Labs "Tigers will do ANYTHING for a tuna fish sandwich." Mark Valentine uses "We're kind of stupid that way." *munch* *munch* and endorses FreeBSD -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 23:26:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mother.ludd.luth.se (mother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 296D637B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:26:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pantzer@ludd.luth.se) Received: from brother.ludd.luth.se (brother.ludd.luth.se [130.240.16.78]) by mother.ludd.luth.se (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15092; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:26:46 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200107090626.IAA15092@mother.ludd.luth.se> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: Message from Dag-Erling Smorgrav of "09 Jul 2001 02:07:39 +0200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 08:26:10 +0200 From: Mattias Pantzare Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Greg Lehey writes: > > On Monday, 9 July 2001 at 1:55:55 +0200, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > > > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > > > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. > > I don't think any free operating system comes close to Solaris or AIX > > when it comes to SMP scalability. > > Possibly not, but the cheap UltraSPARC aren't SMP ones. I believe you > specifically mentioned PCI-equipped UltraSPARCs, and unless I missed > something those are mostly workstations and low-end servers, such as > those little 1U watchumacallits Sun is hawking for less than $1000. :-) All current Suns have PCI, the only Suns that have sbus is the old midrange servers, and you can get PCI on those. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 23:52:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28B237B407 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13225; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005051.046ee1f0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:52:00 -0600 To: Pedro F Giffuni From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B496C3E.F0C25D31@pitt.edu> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212832.046de430@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 02:33 AM 7/9/2001, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: >I recall someone is Slashdot complained abut the lack of distributions >for the SPARC. They should talk to Theo. He was NetBSD's port maintainer for SPARC before OpenBSD split off, and probably still offers pretty good SPARC support for OpenBSD. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 23:53:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.newgold.net (mail.newgold.net [209.42.222.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D9A437B405 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:53:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmallett@xMach.org) Received: (qmail 24719 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2001 06:53:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 06:53:41 -0000 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:53:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Joseph Mallett X-X-Sender: To: Brett Glass Cc: Pedro F Giffuni , Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005051.046ee1f0@localhost> Message-ID: <20010709065325.J22389-100000@Aphex.NewGold.NET> Organization: xMach Core Team [ http://www.xMach.org/ ] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > They should talk to Theo. He was NetBSD's port maintainer for SPARC > before OpenBSD split off, and probably still offers pretty good > SPARC support for OpenBSD. > OpenBSD's SPARC32 support is unrivaled, afaik. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jul 8 23:53:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F5E37B403 for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:53:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13244; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005230.00b89100@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 00:53:26 -0600 To: Craig Harding From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smokingcrack! Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B493AFE.24377793@outpost.co.nz> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708214340.046dd8e0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:02 PM 7/8/2001, Craig Harding wrote: >The tech docs I downloaded from Maxtor's website for this drive (a >Quantum Fireball Plus AS 20GB) list a "flush cache" command which would >presumably do the trick on a shutdown. Is this not a standard ATA >command? It's not universal. And according to Kirk McKusick, some drives "lie" and don't actually flush everything. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 0:44:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747CC37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rdm@cfcl.com) Received: from cfcl.com (cpe-24-221-169-54.ca.sprintbbd.net [24.221.169.54]) by idiom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA94846 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.205] (cerberus [192.168.168.205]) by cfcl.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f697keB17383 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:46:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rdm@cfcl.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212555.046ddde0@localhost> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212555.046ddde0@localhost> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:33:28 -0700 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Rich Morin Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 9:27 PM -0600 7/8/01, Brett Glass wrote: >Wow, Greg... you certainly are an excellent spokesperson for Linux. :-S > >--Brett Rather refreshing, really. With so many spokespeople that seem to feel that they need to shade things in favor of their cause, it's a bit weird (but entirely appropriate) for a FreeBSD spokesperson to call 'em as he sees 'em (doesn't hurt long-term credibility, either :-). -r -- email: rdm@cfcl.com; phone: +1 650-873-7841 http://www.cfcl.com/rdm - home page, resume, etc. http://www.cfcl.com/Meta/md_fb.html - The FreeBSD Browser http://www.ptf.com/tdc - Prime Time Freeware's Darwin Collection To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 4: 2: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E3E537B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:01:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b048.otenet.gr [195.167.121.176]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69B1sC09688; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:01:54 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f69B1rw22071; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:01:53 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:01:52 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Derek Moeller Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709140152.A21588@hades.hell.gr> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20010708202804.A835@dophnic.yi.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010708202804.A835@dophnic.yi.org>; from moeller@dophnic.yi.org on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 08:28:04PM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Derek Moeller Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Date: Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 08:28:04PM -0500 > Besides, if one observes the choice for implementing web services > based on popularity, the prize goes to one of the least portable > platforms in the group, made by some Redmond company. Well, this is not entirely true. Netcraft has almost convinced me that a certain Web Server with an Indian tribe's name[1] has a greater installed base than that Redmond thing[2]. -giorgos [1] Yes, I'm talking about Apache here. [2] Internet Information Server, or whatever it is called this week. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 4: 7:58 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FB337B407; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:07:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b048.otenet.gr [195.167.121.176]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69B7mC18627; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:48 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f69B7la22188; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:47 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:46 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Pedro F Giffuni , Greg Lehey , Brad Knowles , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709140746.A22125@hades.hell.gr> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <3B491A9E.D5392F7C@pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from des@ofug.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:55:55AM +0200 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Date: Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:55:55AM +0200 > Why not? UltraSPARCs come pretty cheap these days, and even Linux is > better than *ack* *phtui* Solaris. Well, I'm not technically savy to actually argue over this with real data, but I have this feeling that Solaris has better SMP support and threading that what Linux currently has. The idea of running an Open Source OS because, well, it's open and I like the way it works for me though, would probabyl be enough to have me running either Linux or NetBSD on a SPARC instead of Solaris. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 4:14: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08EEF37B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:14:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b048.otenet.gr [195.167.121.176]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69BDpC27261; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:13:51 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f69BDo922262; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:13:50 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:13:49 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Brett Glass Cc: Pedro F Giffuni , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Message-ID: <20010709141349.B22125@hades.hell.gr> References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212832.046de430@localhost> <3B496C3E.F0C25D31@pitt.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005051.046ee1f0@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005051.046ee1f0@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:52:00AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Date: Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:52:00AM -0600 > At 02:33 AM 7/9/2001, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: > > >I recall someone is Slashdot complained abut the lack of distributions > >for the SPARC. > > They should talk to Theo. He was NetBSD's port maintainer for SPARC > before OpenBSD split off, and probably still offers pretty good > SPARC support for OpenBSD. Interesting thing to know that Theo was the NetBSD's port maintainer for SPARC. The "hardware platforms" link at www.openbsd.org shows that OpenBSD has support for: sparc: Sun's Sun4, Sun4c, and Sun4m models. sun3: Sun's 68020 based Sun3 models. Very very nice :) It is true then that whatever your platform, and application, there *is* a BSD for you. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 4:19: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr (mailsrv.otenet.gr [195.170.0.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895C337B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:18:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (patr530-b048.otenet.gr [195.167.121.176]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69BIoC05199; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:18:51 +0300 (EEST) Received: (from charon@localhost) by hades.hell.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) id f69BImn22307; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:18:48 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:18:48 +0300 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Brett Glass Cc: Craig Harding , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smokingcrack! Message-ID: <20010709141848.C22125@hades.hell.gr> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010708214340.046dd8e0@localhost> <3B493AFE.24377793@outpost.co.nz> <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005230.00b89100@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005230.00b89100@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:53:26AM -0600 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3A 75 52 EB F1 58 56 0D - C5 B8 21 B6 1B 5E 4A C2 X-URL: http://students.ceid.upatras.gr/~keramida/index.html Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smokingcrack! Date: Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:53:26AM -0600 > At 11:02 PM 7/8/2001, Craig Harding wrote: > > >The tech docs I downloaded from Maxtor's website for this drive (a > >Quantum Fireball Plus AS 20GB) list a "flush cache" command which would > >presumably do the trick on a shutdown. Is this not a standard ATA > >command? > > It's not universal. And according to Kirk McKusick, some drives "lie" > and don't actually flush everything. Oops! Clickety click... /me editing /boot/loader.conf to turn hw.ata.wc back to zero. -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 4:37:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB92537B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 04:37:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA57200; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:37:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Mattias Pantzare Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) References: <200107090626.IAA15092@mother.ludd.luth.se> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 09 Jul 2001 13:37:14 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200107090626.IAA15092@mother.ludd.luth.se> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mattias Pantzare writes: > :-) All current Suns have PCI, the only Suns that have sbus is the old > midrange servers, and you can get PCI on those. I didn't know Sun had given in to the dark side. This is saddening... DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 5: 8: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rebel.net.au (rebel.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95C837B403 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 05:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lloy0076@rebel.net.au) Received: from rebel.net.au (dialup-4.rebel.net.au [203.20.69.74]) by rebel.net.au (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA05190; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:37:46 +0930 Message-ID: <3B499F6E.CB9B6845@rebel.net.au> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:41:26 +0930 From: David Lloyd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pedro F Giffuni Cc: bollocks@bollocks.net.nz, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: MS has quality programmers and OS design? Stop smoking crack! References: <3B49094B.C8506331@outpost.co.nz> <3B496323.B9F8996F@pitt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hand on a moment! Microsoft have identified the problem and a possible (though probably sillly) solution. My FreeBSD machine also happens to house my other test hard drives, hence it reboots about 3 times a day at least (1), so it would interest me to know: has anyone seen this problem under FreeBSD? DSL (1) My main server is an XFS-Based Athon 650 running a RedHat Linux distribution... -- "The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and to be loved in return." - David Bowie (Nature Boy from Moulin Rouge) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 8:11:35 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4F837B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 08:11:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1092"@[136.142.20.19]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K5Q43956UM005UNJ@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:11:31 EST Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:13:36 -0700 From: Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) To: Giorgos Keramidas Cc: Brett Glass , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Message-id: <3B49F450.86012716@pitt.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <3B478570.67B193CB@pitt.edu> <20010709080330.G80862@wantadilla.lemis.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010708212832.046de430@localhost> <3B496C3E.F0C25D31@pitt.edu> <4.3.2.7.2.20010709005051.046ee1f0@localhost> <20010709141349.B22125@hades.hell.gr> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org You can buy a SUN IPC for $20 or less in the Computer goodwill here. These machines are very slow to reasonably run Solaris, so the best option is NetBSD or OpenBSD. For bigger machines though, threads and SMP are an important consideration. Furthermore UVM still hasn't shown the real life performance FreeBSD's VM gives under heavy loads. AFAIK, this has not been benchmarked in years though. Pedro. Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > > From: Brett Glass > Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) > Date: Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 12:52:00AM -0600 > > > At 02:33 AM 7/9/2001, Pedro F Giffuni wrote: > > > > >I recall someone is Slashdot complained abut the lack of distributions > > >for the SPARC. > > > > They should talk to Theo. He was NetBSD's port maintainer for SPARC > > before OpenBSD split off, and probably still offers pretty good > > SPARC support for OpenBSD. > > Interesting thing to know that Theo was the NetBSD's port maintainer > for SPARC. > > The "hardware platforms" link at www.openbsd.org shows that OpenBSD > has support for: > > sparc: Sun's Sun4, Sun4c, and Sun4m models. > sun3: Sun's 68020 based Sun3 models. > > Very very nice :) > > It is true then that whatever your platform, and application, there > *is* a BSD for you. > > -giorgos To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 9: 3: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp1.sentex.ca (smtp1.sentex.ca [199.212.134.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48CD337B403; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:02:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from simoeon.sentex.net (simeon.sentex.ca [209.112.4.47]) by smtp1.sentex.ca (8.11.2/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f69G2jm79041; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 12:02:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709115521.038c3e10@marble.sentex.ca> X-Sender: mdtpop@marble.sentex.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 11:56:23 -0400 To: Robert Watson From: Mike Tancsa Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is WAY cool!!! Congratulations to all involved. ---Mike At 11:47 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: >NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative > > > Monday, July 09, > 2001 > > > NAI Labs Partners With DARPA to Secure Open Source Operating > System > > > $1.2 Million Contract to Enhance Operating System Security > Services > > > NAI Labs, the advanced research group within PGP Security, a division > of > Network Associates, Inc., announced a $1.2 million contract awarded by > the > U.S. Navy's Space and Warfare Systems Command to develop > security > extensions to the Open Source FreeBSD operating system. This work, > which > is funded under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency > (DARPA), > will be done in partnership with members of the FreeBSD > developer > community, assuring tight system integration and rapid > technology > transfer. The project will be lead by NAI Labs Research Scientist > Robert > Watson, and NAI Labs Chief Scientist Lee Badger. The work will be done > in > part by sub-contractors from the FreeBSD development community, > including > Kirk McKusick, Poul-Henning Kamp, Jonathan Lemon, and Eivind Eklund. > The > $1.2 million will be paid over the life of an 18-month > contract. > > > Today's evolving military and business processes increasingly rely on > Open > Source systems to power network infrastructure, network services, file > and > database servers, and workstation environments. Unfortunately, > these > systems have traditionally lacked advanced security features, such > as > Mandatory Access Control, required for secure environments. > Likewise, > other advanced security techniques developed by the security > research > community have often failed to transition to off-the-shelf > systems. > > > The Community-Based Open Source Security (CBOSS) initiative will > address > these challenges through close collaboration with the FreeBSD > developer > community. FreeBSD is an advanced, high-performance operating > system > widely used by Internet Service Providers (ISPs), and as the basis > for > embedded network products including routers and firewalls, due to > its > scalability, ease of management, and cost effective operation. The > system > has also formed the basis for substantial parts of Apple's Mac OS X > next > generation operating system, as well as products from a variety of > other > operating system vendors. NAI Labs, in cooperation with a number of > key > FreeBSD developers, will enhance the FreeBSD operating system to > offer > several new security services, as well as improved assurance, > providing a > direct technology transfer path for security research. This will > include > the development or porting of specific security technologies, > including > NAI Labs' LOMAC, development of highly integrated file system and > device > extensibility services to support security features, network > stack > hardening, kernel security model extensibility allowing tightly > integrated > mandatory access control, and application security work. Several of > these > components are based on or contribute to work performed as part of > the > TrustedBSD Project, a project which seeks to introduce trusted > operating > system functionality into the FreeBSD operating > system. > > > The Composable High Assurance Trusted Systems (CHATS) program at > DARPA > will focus on the development of the tools and technology that enable > the > core systems and network services to protect themselves from > the > introduction and execution of malicious code and other attack > techniques > and methods. These tools and technologies aim to provide the > high > assurance trusted operating systems the security services needed > to > achieve comprehensive secure highly distributed mission > critical > information systems for the DoD. This program seeks to enhance > the > existing approach to development and acquisition of high assurance > trusted > operating systems technology by advancing the security > functionality, > security services, and the state of assurance in current > open-source > operating systems and developing a long-term architectural framework > for > future trusted operating > systems. > > For more information on NAI Labs, please see: > > http://www.nailabs.com/ > > For more information on the CBOSS initiative, please see: > > http://opensource.nailabs.com/news/20010709-cboss.html > > http://opensource.nailabs.com/initiatives/cboss/ > > > >This is the moderated mailing list freebsd-announce. >The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, >important events and project milestones. >See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-announce" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 9:40:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from klapaucius.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27FE737B407; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gsutter@zer0.org) Received: by klapaucius.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 115EF239EF4; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:40:17 -0700 From: Gregory Sutter To: Robert Watson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Message-ID: <20010709094016.L2984@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="M9kwpIYUMbI/2cCx" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@FreeBSD.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 11:47:05AM -0400 Organization: daemonnews X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --M9kwpIYUMbI/2cCx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2001-07-09 11:47 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: >=20 > NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative (as seen on -announce) Daemon News has a discussion forum for this event; you can find it at . Thanks, Robert, for your (past _and_ future) efforts toward making this happen! Greg=20 --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll http://www.daemonnews.org/ be warm for the rest of his life.=20 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --M9kwpIYUMbI/2cCx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: '' iD8DBQE7Sd5wIBUx1YRd/t0RAutzAJ0WbOtVSwLE0YrMVvknN00yKuPpmgCfXUHZ kmHQnqVArLZWnlGqv3bzbN4= =ndGM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --M9kwpIYUMbI/2cCx-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 14:55: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp-ham-2.netsurf.de (smtp-ham-2.netsurf.de [194.195.64.98]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF11937B406 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Olaf.Hoyer@netsurf.de) Received: from mail-ham-2.netsurf.de ([192.168.10.66]) by smtp-ham-2.netsurf.de (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GG87X700.DHX for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:03:07 +0200 Received: from blackangel.netsurf.de ([195.179.168.228]) by mail-ham-2.netsurf.de (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GG877S00.F0M for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:47:52 +0200 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709224906.02510490@mail.netsurf.de> X-Sender: Olaf.Hoyer@mail.netsurf.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:51:39 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Fortune candidate from german Linuxtag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! When wondering within the booth personnel after the show, we (after some of the good german beer) came to the point that I explained to some other people on an after-show party: BSD-even when we crawl, we are not down! Regards Olaf Hoyer To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 18:17:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C1F37B405 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:17:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f6A1Hra12978; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:17:53 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Kenneth Mays Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Comparisons and views (was Re: Benchmarks from SysAdmin mag) Message-ID: <20010709201753.K10713@futuresouth.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from kmays2000@hotmail.com on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 05:07:14PM -0400 X-OS: FreeBSD Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [ Moved to -chat ] On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 05:07:14PM -0400, a little birdie told me that Kenneth Mays remarked > Well, Well, Well, > > http://www.futuresouth.com/~fullermd/freebsd/bsdvlin.html Cripes! I didn't even know that was still sitting there! FYI, the latest mtime on any of those files is Mar 20, 1998. They weren't quite 'cutting edge' when I first put them up, to say nothing of now. Putting them up at all was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to having the thread come up every few weeks, so I could just spit a URL at somebody and hopefully they'd shut up (more often, they'd continue where the previous flamefest left off, providing me more material for next time). In summary, 99.5% of the stuff in those files is of absolutely nothing but historical interest. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Unix Systems Administrator | fullermd@futuresouth.com Specializing in FreeBSD | http://www.over-yonder.net/ "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 18:28:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web11301.mail.yahoo.com (web11301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.204]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 186D237B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 18:28:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ddavid_3@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010710012844.13465.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.138.192.117] by web11301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:28:44 EDT Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: David David Reply-To: ddavid_3@yahoo.com Subject: New FreeBSD Advocate To: chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just came across this, so i figured i might as well pass this on considering all the talk lately for an Advocate. http://www.attrition.org/gallery/other/bsdgirl.jpg NOTE: Sorry ladies, i was unable to find a suitable male counterpart. Cheers David _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 19:20: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0C137B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:20:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23797; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709201922.04724250@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:19:58 -0600 To: ddavid_3@yahoo.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Advocate In-Reply-To: <20010710012844.13465.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:28 PM 7/9/2001, David David wrote: >Just came across this, so i figured i might as well pass this on >considering all the talk lately for an Advocate. > >http://www.attrition.org/gallery/other/bsdgirl.jpg Are you sure that what she's, er, advocating is FreeBSD? ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jul 9 23:18:13 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web11305.mail.yahoo.com (web11305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.208]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C97E837B401 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:18:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ddavid_3@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20010710061811.35278.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.138.192.11] by web11305.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:18:11 EDT Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: David David Reply-To: ddavid_3@yahoo.com Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Advocate To: Brett Glass Cc: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709201922.04724250@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --- Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:28 PM 7/9/2001, David David wrote: > > > >Just came across this, so i figured i might as well pass this on > >considering all the talk lately for an Advocate. > > > >http://www.attrition.org/gallery/other/bsdgirl.jpg > > Are you sure that what she's, er, advocating is FreeBSD? ;-) > > --Brett Well, i suppose if you viewed it on a "parts" basis, that would most likely cross one's mind, Myself, I like to view such "things" as a "whole" which truely allow's the beauty to shine through... As they say "sysinst.. I mean warts and all" :) Cheers David _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 5:28:54 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from post.webmailer.de (natpost.webmailer.de [192.67.198.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C93F37B409; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:28:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Inferno@nightfire.de) Received: from blackangel.nightfire.de (p073.n01.ham.access.is-europe.net [195.179.168.73]) by post.webmailer.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00122; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:28:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de> X-Sender: Inferno%nightfire.de@post.strato.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:26:43 +0200 To: Wes Peters From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > > > > ... or maybe we should remind ourselves that the only thing > > official about FreeBSD is the code. Let the CD vendors figure > > out ways to attract customers from each other, lets worry more > > about ways to attract 'customers' from other operating systems. > >Bill and Jordan are right on this one, guys. We (as in FreeBSD) can put >up the ISOs and every Tom, Dick and Harry with a CD burner can distribute >FreeBSD, and differentiate themselves on packaging, sales channel, and >customer service. Who knows, we might even get a few local shops to pre- >install FreeBSD on a machine or two, with their own FreeBSD discs thrown >in. It could happen. I'll talk to SuperDale and see if "Totally Awesome >Computers" will do this, they run their web site on FreeBSD. Hi folks! Well, I'm just returning from german Linuxtag, one of the biggest events concernung free software. (http://www.linuxtag.org) We ran also a booth there, providing information ( I also held some speech there, covering the history of BSD) and some contacts. We agreed to do something in Europe: - providing informational structure for BSD - providing a channel where people that want to do booths at exhibitions etc may contact and get some help, pre-financing (perhaps) and merchandise articles to help financing the whole thing. Basically, those people who showed up at our booth asked: Well, ok, it seems that this is a good OS, but where/whom can I contact in case of trouble? Who provides _commercial_ support? I'd love to buy a T-Shirt or a pin, can you sell me one? I already use BSD, but are there any books about it? ((No, not the handbook. People love to pay for additional literature helping make the bookshelf look cool.) So there certainly is money involved, and if we could organize it in a way, that money flows back to the project respectively into activities that help promoting BSD, that should be fine. This also includes the possibility (which needs to be checked for legal/trade commision issued yet) to provide any user with the possibility to order some CDs, T-Shirts whatsoever. BTW: BSD stands herein for: Free/Net/OpenBSD, BSD/OS, MacOS X, as far the BSD portion is concerned. Any input? Maybe we should take this over to -chat. Olaf To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 7:21:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D8437B405; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:21:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6ADrr048842; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:53:53 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from nik) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:53:53 +0100 From: Nik Clayton To: Olaf Hoyer Cc: Wes Peters , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Mall now BSDCentral Message-ID: <20010710145353.I16152@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: <53494.994625611@critter> <20010708194534.X47870@elvis.mu.org> <3B493922.3AC700@softweyr.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010710141558.01d3a790@post.strato.de>; from Inferno@nightfire.de on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:26:43PM +0200 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:26:43PM +0200, Olaf Hoyer wrote: > We agreed to do something in Europe: >=20 > - providing informational structure for BSD > - providing a channel where people that want to do booths at exhibitions = etc > may contact and get some help, pre-financing (perhaps) and merchandise ar= ticles > to help financing the whole thing. Can I point you at the BSD EU Group mailing list, eug@bsd.eu.org, where much the same discussions are happening at the moment. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjtLCO8ACgkQk6gHZCw343VJUwCghIjNK1hsZIh1WFaP52pT1LeA SZUAmwTL1me+rlj47SYuYtsUQTYLvIgN =Fs/W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --X0cz4bGbQuRbxrVl-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 7:48:41 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69CC37B409 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:48:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6AEaJr03678 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:36:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:36:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Yahoo carries ZDnet article on NAI Labs/FreeBSD security work Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/zd/20010709/tc/u_s_military_backs_open-source_security_1.html Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 10: 2:49 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1E637B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:02:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15K0uM-000E39-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:02:46 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6AH2k954363 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:02:46 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:02:45 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: analog to COM? Message-ID: <20010710180245.A54339@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does BSD (or Unix in general) have anything comparable to COM, with components, immutable interfaces, and the like? Jonathon -- Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 10: 7:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956B937B405 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:07:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (root@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.148]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28541; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:07:24 +0200 Received: (from alex@localhost) by fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6AH7iZ66464; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:07:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:07:44 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: analog to COM? Message-ID: <20010710190744.E65998@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> References: <20010710180245.A54339@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010710180245.A54339@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 06:02:45PM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): > Does BSD (or Unix in general) have anything comparable to COM, with > components, immutable interfaces, and the like? www.corba.org, maybe? It existed long before Microsoft had to cook their own soup[1] again. Alex [1] I first accidentally wrote "soap". I think that would have described it even more accurately :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 10:31:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D4C37B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #7) id 15K1ME-000HUR-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:31:34 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6AHVXt54715; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:31:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:31:33 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Alexander Langer Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: analog to COM? Message-ID: <20010710183133.A54494@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010710180245.A54339@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010710190744.E65998@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20010710190744.E65998@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de>; from alex@big.endian.de on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 07:07:44PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 07:07:44PM +0200, Alexander Langer wrote: | Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): | | > Does BSD (or Unix in general) have anything comparable to COM, with | > components, immutable interfaces, and the like? | | www.corba.org, maybe? Hmm. Isn't corba slow? I thought maybe there was a vtable oriented dynamic linking method for components. | It existed long before Microsoft had to cook their own soup[1] again. | | Alex | | [1] I first accidentally wrote "soap". I think that would have | described it even more accurately :-) So are they eating their own dogfood, cooking their own soup, or making their own soap? ;-) Jonathon -- Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 10:35: 3 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (kawoserv.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE [134.130.180.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A71037B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:35:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from alex@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de) Received: from fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (root@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de [134.130.181.148]) by kawoserv.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30006; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:34:59 +0200 Received: (from alex@localhost) by fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f6AHZJP66669; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:35:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from alex) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:35:19 +0200 From: Alexander Langer To: j mckitrick Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: analog to COM? Message-ID: <20010710193519.F65998@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> References: <20010710180245.A54339@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <20010710190744.E65998@fump.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de> <20010710183133.A54494@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010710183133.A54494@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>; from jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 06:31:33PM +0100 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 44 28 CA 4C 46 5B D3 A8 A8 E3 BA F3 4E 60 7D 7F X-PGP-at: finger alex@big.endian.de X-Verwirrung: Dieser Header dient der allgemeinen Verwirrung. Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thus spake j mckitrick (jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org): > So are they eating their own dogfood, cooking their own soup, or making > their own soap? ;-) Err, Yes! (They make their own soap by trying to cook their own coup and sell it as dogfood) Alex To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 16:19:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9542337B401; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:19:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rootman@xmission.com) Received: from [166.70.7.191] (helo=blackmirror.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15K6mW-0005rn-00; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:19:04 -0600 From: rootman To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Fwd: UNIX TIP: DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:14:07 -0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01071017182700.00321@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know if this could be a potential problem with FreeBSD? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: UNIX TIP: DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 14:10:42 -0700 From: Unix Guru Universe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= UNIX GURU UNIVERSE & UNIX911.com UNIX HOT TIP Unix Tip 1652 - July 10, 2001 http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?tip.today =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH We are checking with SUN and other vendors to confirm the following tip that was sent in. We wanted to pass it on so those that may be affected could plan for the change: ----- The unix time() value becomes 10 digits for the first time on Sun Sep 9 01:46:40 2001 For the first time in modern computer history, the timestamp will be something besides 9 digits. That could break things. ----- If anyone knows more please contact tips@ugu.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Subscribe: http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?tip.subscribe To Unsubscribe: http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?tip.unsubscribe To Submit A Tip: http://www.ugu.com/sui/ugu/show?tip.today ========================================================================== DISCLAIMER: All UNIX HOT TIPS ARE OWNED BY THE UNIX GURU UNIVERSE AND ARE NOT TO BE SOLD, PRINTED OR USED WITHOUT THE WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE UNIX GURU UNIVERSE. ALL TIPS ARE "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK". UGU ADVISES THAT ALL TIPS BE TESTED IN A NON-PRODUCTION DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT FIRST. Unix Guru Universe - www.ugu.com - tips@ugu.com - Copyright 1994-1998 ========================================================================== ------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 16:39:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from odin.acuson.com (odin.acuson.com [157.226.230.71]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F4A37B401 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:39:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from djohnson@acuson.com) Received: from acuson.com ([157.226.46.72]) by odin.acuson.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.54) with ESMTP id AAA3405; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:45:53 -0700 Message-ID: <3B4B922B.6E9E3FB9@acuson.com> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:39:23 -0700 From: David Johnson Organization: Acuson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rootman Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fwd: UNIX TIP: DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH References: <01071017182700.00321@blackmirror.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org rootman wrote: > The unix time() value becomes > 10 digits for the first time on > Sun Sep 9 01:46:40 2001 > > For the first time in modern > computer history, the timestamp > will be something besides 9 digits. > That could break things. This would affect FreeBSD as well, but I don't think it's a big deal. Every Unix program I have seen uses and stores the time in a time_t or long int variable. It would be a big problem if some program decided to store it in a 10 char string or something similar. There may be some applications that are run on top of FreeBSD that might have a problem, but I doubt FreeBSD itself will have a problem. My opinion only. If you want to be sure, test it out before that date arrives. David p.s. Sometime in 2038 we might have a big problem though... To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 17:10: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from germanium.xtalwind.net (germanium.xtalwind.net [205.160.242.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BED237B403 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:09:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.xtalwind.net [127.0.0.1]) by germanium.xtalwind.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f6B09p159092; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:09:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jack@germanium.xtalwind.net) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:09:51 -0400 (EDT) From: jack To: rootman Cc: Subject: Re: Fwd: UNIX TIP: DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH In-Reply-To: <01071017182700.00321@blackmirror.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20010710195745.H58318-100000@germanium.xtalwind.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Today rootman wrote: > The unix time() value becomes > 10 digits for the first time on > Sun Sep 9 01:46:40 2001 > > For the first time in modern > computer history, the timestamp > will be something besides 9 digits. > That could break things. I have programs (in C, perl, and PHP) that have been converting credit card expiration dates later than Aug 2001 back and forth between ascii strings and time_t values for the past few years; and storing the time_t value in a PostgreSQL database. cwc=# select max(cc_exp_date) from contact_info; max ------------ 1117598400 (1 row) cwc=# \q pearl# date -r 1117598400 Wed Jun 1 00:00:00 EDT 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jack O'Neill Systems Administrator / Systems Analyst jack@germanium.xtalwind.net Crystal Wind Communications, Inc. Finger jack@germanium.xtalwind.net for my PGP key. PGP Key fingerprint = F6 C4 E6 D4 2F 15 A7 67 FD 09 E9 3C 5F CC EB CD enriched, vcard, HTML messages > /dev/null -------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer is to computing what a McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to fine cuisine. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jul 10 21:45:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtppop3pub.verizon.net (smtppop3pub.gte.net [206.46.170.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0845137B405; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:45:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Received: from gte.net (evrtwa1-ar4-4-34-145-186.evrtwa1.dsl.gtei.net [4.34.145.186]) by smtppop3pub.verizon.net with ESMTP ; id XAA37751316 Tue, 10 Jul 2001 23:45:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from res03db2@localhost) by gte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24272; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from res03db2@gte.net) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:46:13 -0700 From: Robert Clark To: Gregory Sutter Cc: Robert Watson , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Message-ID: <20010710214613.C24198@darkstar.gte.net> References: <20010709094016.L2984@klapaucius.zer0.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i In-Reply-To: <20010709094016.L2984@klapaucius.zer0.org>; from gsutter@daemonnews.org on Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:40:17AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It would be nice if one of the *BSD periodicals would cronicle the (public) goings on at the lab. Hearing what progress was being made would be good for morale. (Not that morale is bad now.) [RC] On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 09:40:17AM -0700, Gregory Sutter wrote: > On 2001-07-09 11:47 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > > > NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative > > (as seen on -announce) > > Daemon News has a discussion forum for this event; you can find > it at . > > Thanks, Robert, for your (past _and_ future) efforts toward making > this happen! > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm > mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll > http://www.daemonnews.org/ be warm for the rest of his life. > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 0:56:30 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.twowaytv.co.uk (exchange.twowaytv.co.uk [194.6.2.173]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A80737B406 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:56:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ADyas@twowaytv.com) Received: by exchange.twowaytv.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:52:51 +0100 Message-ID: <911D8F660DF6D411B61F00500462BA01BE5B80@exchange.twowaytv.co.uk> From: Alex Dyas To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: analog to COM? Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:52:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jonathon, There are cross-overs too, COM/DCOM on UNIX : http://www.google.com/search?q=dcom+unix I suspect commercial solutions (Software AG etc) cover the commercial UNIXen only, but there's some Linux material there. alex... > -----Original Message----- > From: j mckitrick [mailto:jcm@FreeBSD-uk.eu.org] > Sent: 10 July 2001 18:03 > To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: analog to COM? > > > > Does BSD (or Unix in general) have anything comparable to COM, with > components, immutable interfaces, and the like? > > Jonathon > -- > Microsoft complaining about the source license used by > Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 8:19:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6344B37B403 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:19:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6BFHer57595; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:17:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:17:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Mike Tancsa Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010709115521.038c3e10@marble.sentex.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Thanks--we worked pretty hard over the past nine to twelve months to make this happen, and hopefully we'll get a lot out of it (as well as encouraging future investment in FreeBSD by DoD and other possible sponsors). Oh, and we're hiring, so if you know anyone interested in doing open source (and more specifically, FreeBSD) operating system security work, have them drop me a resume at rwatson@tislabs.com. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Mike Tancsa wrote: > > This is WAY cool!!! Congratulations to all involved. > > ---Mike > > At 11:47 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > >NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative > > > > > > Monday, July 09, > > 2001 > > > > > > NAI Labs Partners With DARPA to Secure Open Source Operating > > System > > > > > > $1.2 Million Contract to Enhance Operating System Security > > Services > > > > > > NAI Labs, the advanced research group within PGP Security, a division > > of > > Network Associates, Inc., announced a $1.2 million contract awarded by > > the > > U.S. Navy's Space and Warfare Systems Command to develop > > security > > extensions to the Open Source FreeBSD operating system. This work, > > which > > is funded under the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency > > (DARPA), > > will be done in partnership with members of the FreeBSD > > developer > > community, assuring tight system integration and rapid > > technology > > transfer. The project will be lead by NAI Labs Research Scientist > > Robert > > Watson, and NAI Labs Chief Scientist Lee Badger. The work will be done > > in > > part by sub-contractors from the FreeBSD development community, > > including > > Kirk McKusick, Poul-Henning Kamp, Jonathan Lemon, and Eivind Eklund. > > The > > $1.2 million will be paid over the life of an 18-month > > contract. > > > > > > Today's evolving military and business processes increasingly rely on > > Open > > Source systems to power network infrastructure, network services, file > > and > > database servers, and workstation environments. Unfortunately, > > these > > systems have traditionally lacked advanced security features, such > > as > > Mandatory Access Control, required for secure environments. > > Likewise, > > other advanced security techniques developed by the security > > research > > community have often failed to transition to off-the-shelf > > systems. > > > > > > The Community-Based Open Source Security (CBOSS) initiative will > > address > > these challenges through close collaboration with the FreeBSD > > developer > > community. FreeBSD is an advanced, high-performance operating > > system > > widely used by Internet Service Providers (ISPs), and as the basis > > for > > embedded network products including routers and firewalls, due to > > its > > scalability, ease of management, and cost effective operation. The > > system > > has also formed the basis for substantial parts of Apple's Mac OS X > > next > > generation operating system, as well as products from a variety of > > other > > operating system vendors. NAI Labs, in cooperation with a number of > > key > > FreeBSD developers, will enhance the FreeBSD operating system to > > offer > > several new security services, as well as improved assurance, > > providing a > > direct technology transfer path for security research. This will > > include > > the development or porting of specific security technologies, > > including > > NAI Labs' LOMAC, development of highly integrated file system and > > device > > extensibility services to support security features, network > > stack > > hardening, kernel security model extensibility allowing tightly > > integrated > > mandatory access control, and application security work. Several of > > these > > components are based on or contribute to work performed as part of > > the > > TrustedBSD Project, a project which seeks to introduce trusted > > operating > > system functionality into the FreeBSD operating > > system. > > > > > > The Composable High Assurance Trusted Systems (CHATS) program at > > DARPA > > will focus on the development of the tools and technology that enable > > the > > core systems and network services to protect themselves from > > the > > introduction and execution of malicious code and other attack > > techniques > > and methods. These tools and technologies aim to provide the > > high > > assurance trusted operating systems the security services needed > > to > > achieve comprehensive secure highly distributed mission > > critical > > information systems for the DoD. This program seeks to enhance > > the > > existing approach to development and acquisition of high assurance > > trusted > > operating systems technology by advancing the security > > functionality, > > security services, and the state of assurance in current > > open-source > > operating systems and developing a long-term architectural framework > > for > > future trusted operating > > systems. > > > > For more information on NAI Labs, please see: > > > > http://www.nailabs.com/ > > > > For more information on the CBOSS initiative, please see: > > > > http://opensource.nailabs.com/news/20010709-cboss.html > > > > http://opensource.nailabs.com/initiatives/cboss/ > > > > > > > >This is the moderated mailing list freebsd-announce. > >The list contains announcements of new FreeBSD capabilities, > >important events and project milestones. > >See also the FreeBSD Web pages at http://www.freebsd.org > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-announce" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 16:22: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [204.156.12.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29BC137B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:22:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (robert@fledge.pr.watson.org [192.0.2.3]) by fledge.watson.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f6BNLWr08887; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:21:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from robert@fledge.watson.org) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:21:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Watson X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Robert Clark Cc: Gregory Sutter , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative In-Reply-To: <20010710214613.C24198@darkstar.gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Robert Clark wrote: > It would be nice if one of the *BSD periodicals would cronicle the > (public) goings on at the lab. > > Hearing what progress was being made would be good for morale. > > (Not that morale is bad now.) Robert, NAI Labs would be happy to talk with members of the *BSD media about the activities going on in the Labs, either specifically to do with FreeBSD, or general work. We can even arrange tours at our Glenwood, MD office, if people would like :-). Also, we plan to present regularly at various conferences relating to open source, unix, and security, including the USENIX Technical Conference, USENIX Security Symposium, and BSD Conference. And we'll update our Open Source site (http://opensource.nailabs.com/) as appropriate. In fact, some updates on the LOMAC port to FreeBSD went up today, I think, and we announced the change in licensing on LOMAC to a BSD license. For general information on NAI Labs, peruse our web site at http://www.nailabs.com/. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project robert@fledge.watson.org NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 16:30:18 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-132.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4587F37B401; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:30:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0BA1866D72; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:30:14 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: Robert Watson Cc: Robert Clark , Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative Message-ID: <20010711163014.A90831@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20010710214613.C24198@darkstar.gte.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from rwatson@FreeBSD.ORG on Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:21:32PM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 07:21:32PM -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > In fact, some updates on the LOMAC port to FreeBSD went up today, I > think, and we announced the change in licensing on LOMAC to a BSD > license. Rock! Kris --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TOGFWry0BWjoQKURAp3eAKDVJS/0c/aAK36rIvrQBIw81R4yaQCeI08K 6gn4/4zxwM7ngMi7bX7C/P8= =Y6yF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --fUYQa+Pmc3FrFX/N-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 16:34: 2 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (adsl-63-207-60-132.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [63.207.60.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB3637B405; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:33:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8464C66D72; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:33:55 -0700 From: Kris Kennaway To: rootman Cc: freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Fwd: UNIX TIP: DATE CHANGE SEPT 9TH Message-ID: <20010711163354.B90831@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <01071017182700.00321@blackmirror.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="V0207lvV8h4k8FAm" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <01071017182700.00321@blackmirror.xmission.com>; from rootman@xmission.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:14:07PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --V0207lvV8h4k8FAm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:14:07PM -0600, rootman wrote: >=20 > Does anyone know if this could be a potential problem with FreeBSD? I doubt if there are many apps which store time_t's as an ASCII representation and might therefore overflow. There are even less likely to be any instances in the FreeBSD code itself. The major potential problem might be in weakly-typed languages which treat ascii strings and numerical values equivalently, encouraging programmers to mix up types and possibly make assumptions about array sizing. I don't know off-hand of any languages where this is likely to be true Kris --V0207lvV8h4k8FAm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7TOJhWry0BWjoQKURAmKRAJ9kNxAHjzih32S6FgpQXodFUDXmxACg+uNY o91dkZH3XqEXC74uQmhe0jo= =iAmN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --V0207lvV8h4k8FAm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jul 11 22:21:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from saturn.cs.uml.edu (saturn.cs.uml.edu [129.63.8.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0787337B401 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 22:21:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from acahalan@saturn.cs.uml.edu) Received: (from acahalan@localhost) by saturn.cs.uml.edu (8.11.0/8.11.2) id f6C5L2P64207; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200107120521.f6C5L2P64207@saturn.cs.uml.edu> From: "Albert D. Cahalan" To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Giorgos Keramidas writes: > The "hardware platforms" link at www.openbsd.org shows that OpenBSD > has support for: > > sparc: Sun's Sun4, Sun4c, and Sun4m models. > sun3: Sun's 68020 based Sun3 models. > > Very very nice :) > > It is true then that whatever your platform, and application, there > *is* a BSD for you. The CRIS architecture ETRAX 100LX: http://developer.axis.com/hardware/etrax100lx/ IBM's S/390 and zSeries http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/ IBM's iSeries (formerly known as the AS/400) http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/ http://lists.linuxppc.org/listarcs/linuxppc-iseries/200106/msg00003.html All of the above hardware is currently available. Where is the BSD? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 0:22:10 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ACC737B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:22:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26551; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:21:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712012130.00e63dd0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 01:21:54 -0600 To: "Albert D. Cahalan" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr In-Reply-To: <200107120521.f6C5L2P64207@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:21 PM 7/11/2001, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: >The CRIS architecture ETRAX 100LX: >http://developer.axis.com/hardware/etrax100lx/ > >IBM's S/390 and zSeries >http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/ > >IBM's iSeries (formerly known as the AS/400) >http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/ >http://lists.linuxppc.org/listarcs/linuxppc-iseries/200106/msg00003.html > >All of the above hardware is currently available. >Where is the BSD? AIX. ;-) --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 0:46:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3CC037B401; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 00:46:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA72177; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:46:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from des@ofug.org) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kris Kennaway Cc: Robert Watson , Robert Clark , Gregory Sutter , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: NAI Labs Announces DARPA-Funded FreeBSD Security Initiative References: <20010710214613.C24198@darkstar.gte.net> <20010711163014.A90831@xor.obsecurity.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 12 Jul 2001 09:46:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20010711163014.A90831@xor.obsecurity.org> Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kris Kennaway writes: > Rock! Paper! DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 8:10:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B8D37B405 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24721; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:10:49 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:10:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: "Albert D. Cahalan" Cc: , Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: <200107120521.f6C5L2P64207@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Albert D. Cahalan wrote: > > It is true then that whatever your platform, and application, there > > *is* a BSD for you. > > The CRIS architecture ETRAX 100LX: > http://developer.axis.com/hardware/etrax100lx/ Getting FreeBSD, or any other BSD for that matter, running on this chip would be really neat. It looks like they have all of the technical stuff needed (instruction set documentation and a compiler, among other stuff) available freely on their website should someone want to tackle it. The ETRAX 100LX has an MMU whereas the previous ETRAX 100 did not, IIRC, which would be key to running anything with a unified VM system like FreeBSD, if I understand correctly. Having a 100MIPS CPU with USB, dual SCSI, quad ATA, 2-sync/4-async serial, and 2 parallel interfaces on a single small low-power chip is... uhm... amazing, to me. :-) We're using some of the products from Axis (print servers, storage servers, cd-rom servers, document servers, network cameras, etc.) which all use its predecessor the ETRAX 100 running Linux, and I've been very impressed with their performance and features. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64 (Itanium), PowerPC, and ARM architectures under development - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 8:33:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0179A37B403 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:33:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01175; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:33:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712093239.045c7930@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:33:26 -0600 To: Chris Dillon , "Albert D. Cahalan" From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: , In-Reply-To: References: <200107120521.f6C5L2P64207@saturn.cs.uml.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 09:10 AM 7/12/2001, Chris Dillon wrote: >> The CRIS architecture ETRAX 100LX: >> http://developer.axis.com/hardware/etrax100lx/ > >Getting FreeBSD, or any other BSD for that matter, running on this >chip would be really neat. NetBSD would be the fastest port if there's a compiler. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 9:25:27 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B725637B409 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:25:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25545; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:25:18 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:25:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Brett Glass Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , , Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712093239.045c7930@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > At 09:10 AM 7/12/2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > > >> The CRIS architecture ETRAX 100LX: > >> http://developer.axis.com/hardware/etrax100lx/ > > > >Getting FreeBSD, or any other BSD for that matter, running on this > >chip would be really neat. > > NetBSD would be the fastest port if there's a compiler. There is, its GNU CC. I'm not sure if ETRAX support is already part of a recent gcc distribution or not, but it is available on the Axis website. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64 (Itanium), PowerPC, and ARM architectures under development - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 9:28:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31BC37B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:28:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02055; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712102705.00be1c40@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:28:03 -0600 To: Chris Dillon From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , , In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712093239.045c7930@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:25 AM 7/12/2001, Chris Dillon wrote: >There is, its GNU CC. Darn -- the GNU Cancer Compiiler. Seems like it's extinguishing every other option. But at least it would make a port possible. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jul 12 10:25: 5 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CD537B401 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:25:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26095; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:24:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 12:24:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Brett Glass Cc: "Albert D. Cahalan" , , Subject: Re: OS portability (was: Things you learn in school) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010712102705.00be1c40@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Brett Glass wrote: > At 10:25 AM 7/12/2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > > >There is, its GNU CC. > > Darn -- the GNU Cancer Compiiler. Seems like it's extinguishing > every other option. But at least it would make a port possible. Yeah, it makes sense that they're using GCC, since they ported Linux to the ETRAX. They obviously didn't care about the license at that point or they would have chosen a BSD system to port. I have to wonder though, wether the GPL isn't hurting them. They've created an excellent embedded processor that someone will have to either write their own OS for or port a more IP-friendly OS if they have any IP they need to protect but would end up falling under the GPL with Linux (kernel modifications and so forth). It doesn't make any sense, but then again, a whole lot of things don't. If someone interested in doing a BSD port points the license issue out to Axis, and they actually see the light, they might fund the port since it would attract developers who couldn't base something on Linux for licensing reasons and don't have the resources or desire to create or port another OS. Someone just has to ask them. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet - Available for IA32 (Intel x86) and Alpha architectures - IA64 (Itanium), PowerPC, and ARM architectures under development - http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 10:15:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E9E37B401 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15L6XX-000Cfb-00 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:15:43 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6DHFgU16996 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:15:42 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:15:42 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? Message-ID: <20010713181542.F16488@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I was one of those punks that held on to my Amiga till it was obvious that the best technology *wasn't* going to win. But I absolutely loved assembly language programming on that machine. Huge registers with simple names, flat addressing, rich instruction set, lots of indirect addressing modes, not to mention the API was fun to work with as well. What do you think of the 68000 series? Was it a good CPU from the standpoint of a programmer? Jonathon -- Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 12:13: 0 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8592637B405 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:12:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from Atlanta.threespace.com ([24.21.224.204]) by femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP id <20010713191257.BDHR552.femail21.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Atlanta.threespace.com> for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:12:57 -0700 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713150923.017dec30@threespace.com> X-Sender: tech@threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:12:21 -0400 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: Re: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? In-Reply-To: <20010713181542.F16488@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Man, I didn't know that I was the only one still using Commodore's Finest until long after the widespread acceptance of Microsoft Windows. We should have had a support group or something. :-) I never got down and dirty with assembly language, but the C programming was pretty cool. The API was clean, and not too hard to understand with a little pouring over the AmigaDOS Reference Manuals. That still remains the only platform for which I've successfully written a device driver. Now you've got me all nostalgic. I'm gonna have to go find a good emulator and some software... --Chip Morton At 01:15 PM 7/13/2001, you wrote: >I was one of those punks that held on to my Amiga till it was obvious that >the best technology *wasn't* going to win. > >But I absolutely loved assembly language programming on that machine. Huge >registers with simple names, flat addressing, rich instruction set, lots of >indirect addressing modes, not to mention the API was fun to work with as >well. > >What do you think of the 68000 series? Was it a good CPU from the >standpoint of a programmer? > >Jonathon >-- >Microsoft complaining about the source license used by >Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 12:44:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B45037B401 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from si@chemicalterrorism.com) Received: from freebsd.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.207] helo=chemicalterrorism.com) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15L8qz-000DFR-0U; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:44:04 +0100 Received: from pain (pain.chemicalterrorism.com [192.168.0.3]) by chemicalterrorism.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 67909F44C; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:43:00 +0100 (BST) From: "Si" To: "Technical Information" Cc: "FreeBSD Chat" Subject: RE: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:43:00 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713150923.017dec30@threespace.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org /usr/ports/emulators/uae :) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Technical > Information > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 8:12 PM > To: FreeBSD Chat > Subject: Re: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? > > > Man, I didn't know that I was the only one still using Commodore's Finest > until long after the widespread acceptance of Microsoft Windows. > We should > have had a support group or something. :-) > > I never got down and dirty with assembly language, but the C programming > was pretty cool. The API was clean, and not too hard to > understand with a > little pouring over the AmigaDOS Reference Manuals. That still > remains the > only platform for which I've successfully written a device driver. > > Now you've got me all nostalgic. I'm gonna have to go find a > good emulator > and some software... > > --Chip Morton [snip] Si. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 12:44:33 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0F137B405 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:44:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28100; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713134226.055ef570@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:43:06 -0600 To: j mckitrick , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? In-Reply-To: <20010713181542.F16488@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:15 AM 7/13/2001, j mckitrick wrote: >What do you think of the 68000 series? Was it a good CPU from the >standpoint of a programmer? Very. The instruction set was simple, symmetrical, and easy to understand. That's why the PPC can emulate it so well. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 13:32:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9747B37B401 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:32:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97] ident=root) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #6) id 15L9bc-000Icc-00; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:32:08 +0100 Received: (from jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) id f6DKW8118647; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:32:08 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jcm) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:32:07 +0100 From: j mckitrick To: Brett Glass Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: opinions on the M68000 series cpus? Message-ID: <20010713213207.A18629@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> References: <20010713181542.F16488@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20010713134226.055ef570@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713134226.055ef570@localhost>; from brett@lariat.org on Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:43:06PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jul 13, 2001 at 01:43:06PM -0600, Brett Glass wrote: | At 11:15 AM 7/13/2001, j mckitrick wrote: | | >What do you think of the 68000 series? Was it a good CPU from the | >standpoint of a programmer? | | Very. The instruction set was simple, symmetrical, and easy to | understand. I *loved* a0-a7 address registers, d0-d7 data registers... Jonathon -- Microsoft complaining about the source license used by Linux is like the event horizon calling the kettle black. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jul 13 15: 4:37 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4DA37B401 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:04:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29722 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010713160212.046b9cd0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:04:27 -0600 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Brett Glass Subject: Fortune candidate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Some people open all the windows: Wise wives welcome spring by moving the UNIX." --British advertisement for "UNIX" brand bookshelves To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 14 10:10:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from picard.skynet.be (picard.skynet.be [195.238.3.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D940737B405 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:10:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f6EHAeY22257 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:10:41 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:10:32 +0200 To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List From: Brad Knowles Subject: Unix Line Memory... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, This is the best stuff I've ever used! See . Yes, this is a real picture, of the real product. ;-) -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 14 10:18:19 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9C237B40C for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:18:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11305; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:18:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010714111645.0468fa30@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:18:05 -0600 To: Brad Knowles , FreeBSD Chat Mailing List From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Unix Line Memory... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 11:10 AM 7/14/2001, Brad Knowles wrote: >Folks, > > This is the best stuff I've ever used! See . > > > Yes, this is a real picture, of the real product. ;-) Here's some info on other products that use the name "UNIX". http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/otherunix.html --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 14 15:33: 1 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8512D37B401 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 15:32:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [194.78.241.123] ([194.78.241.123]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with ESMTP id f6EMWuO24192 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 00:32:56 +0200 (MET DST) (envelope-from ) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 00:32:48 +0200 To: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List From: Brad Knowles Subject: Neat aerospace desktop background images? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, I found some good stuff on mandolux.com, and I've managed to find a few more images on the Boeing and Lockheed-Martin web pages that I've turned into some more desktop images, but I'm wondering if anyone here knows of any other sources -- I'm specifically looking for things like the XB-70, the F-22 Raptor, X-32, X-35, YF-22, A-12, SR-71, and other recent (and classic) high-tech/high-speed military and/or experimental aircraft, as well as cool civilian aircraft such as the Concorde, Airbus A-3XX, Boeing "Boxwing" concepts, Boeing HSCT, etc.... I've talked to Mando, and he says that he gets most of his images from stock photo agencies, but they typically want like $129 for a single hi-res image, or $200-300 for a CD of about 100 images, and I have neither the money nor the inclination to spend that kind of money on a stupid desktop background image. So, does anyone here have any other ideas? -- Brad Knowles, /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ /* */ /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jul 14 17:16:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu (mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu [136.142.186.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2319337B401 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 17:16:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pfg1+@pitt.edu) Received: from pitt.edu ("port 1059"@[136.142.21.139]) by pitt.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #41462) with ESMTP id <01K5XMK9XXIQ006N9Z@mb2i0.ns.pitt.edu> for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:16:10 EST Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:18:20 -0700 From: Pedro F Giffuni Subject: Re: Neat aerospace desktop background images? To: Brad Knowles Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List Message-id: <3B510B7C.F7A77923@pitt.edu> Organization: University of Pittsburgh MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,es-CO References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I used some NASA (www.nasa.gov) pics for my FreeBSD Splash screen. they have a site with very nice pics and they are free. I forgot the exact URL though. Pedro. Brad Knowles wrote: > > Folks, > > I found some good stuff on mandolux.com, and I've managed to find > a few more images on the Boeing and Lockheed-Martin web pages that > I've turned into some more desktop images, but I'm wondering if > anyone here knows of any other sources -- I'm specifically looking > for things like the XB-70, the F-22 Raptor, X-32, X-35, YF-22, A-12, > SR-71, and other recent (and classic) high-tech/high-speed military > and/or experimental aircraft, as well as cool civilian aircraft such > as the Concorde, Airbus A-3XX, Boeing "Boxwing" concepts, Boeing > HSCT, etc.... > > I've talked to Mando, and he says that he gets most of his images > from stock photo agencies, but they typically want like $129 for a > single hi-res image, or $200-300 for a CD of about 100 images, and I > have neither the money nor the inclination to spend that kind of > money on a stupid desktop background image. > > So, does anyone here have any other ideas? > > -- > Brad Knowles, > > /* efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum */ > /* Represented as 1045 digit prime number by Phil Carmody */ > /* Prime as DNS cname chain by Roy Arends and Walter Belgers */ > /* */ > /* Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob */ > /* where title-key = "153 2 8 105 225" or other similar 5-byte key */ > > dig decss.friet.org|perl -ne'if(/^x/){s/[x.]//g;print pack(H124,$_)}' > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message