From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 15 8:39: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645BA37B43E for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3FFPfM09851; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:25:41 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:25:40 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Gunther Schadow Cc: Chris Dillon , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <3AD91B9A.581D977D@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:55:06 +0000 > From: Gunther Schadow > > Could you tell me what's wrong with the National Semiconductor DP83815 > ethernet chips? I guess for a low cost board, I am happy not to have > been given realteks. The Flytech NetPC NC-2 that I use as an interim I just quickly scanned the left column, and saw the "sis0"... NS probably does things a bit better. So far, anything made by SiS that I've used has been a bit quirky. And don't even say that "R" word. :-) My point was that I like Tulips... I'd expect 2x Tulip to cost a little more than 3x SiS (NS now that I actually read dmesg output). If it works and gets the job done, I'm happy. Have you had a chance to test forwarding rate, in both Mbps and fps? Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. EverQuick Internet / EternalCommerce Division Phone: (316) 794-8922 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 15 18:38:34 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h003.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.67]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2253237B424 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:38:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from neal@nelsonnet.org) Received: (cpmta 6337 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 18:38:25 -0700 Date: 15 Apr 2001 18:38:25 -0700 Message-ID: <20010416013825.6336.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> X-Sent: 16 Apr 2001 01:38:25 GMT Received: from [203.23.27.1] by mail.nelsonnet.org with HTTP; 15 Apr 2001 18:38:25 PDT Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org From: neal@nelsonnet.org X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.7.1.9 Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I too am interested in at least one of these boards to try out as it's pretty much what I've been looking for for my firewall project. My current board seems to have gone belly up so it may be a good time to get a new one and I can't afford an Advantech. How much would shipping to Australia add to the cost? On Sat, 14 April 2001, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > Hi, > > Well, who's counting it then? How do I sign myself up for a couple? > > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Skip Hansen wrote: > > > My old 486dx2-66 PicoBSD firewall works just fine, but I'll take one > > to get rid of the fans and heat ! 60 days after the cash goes out > > works for me as well. > > > > Skip > > > > The only problem with this is that it isn't available unless we > > > > all place one big order to get it manufactured. Soeren knows how > > > > to do this he just doesn't have the venture capital to do it. > > > > The board can be ready for all of us if we find a way to finance > > > > it collectively. > > > > > > > > Anyone interested? Let me and the list know. We need just a > > > > few hundred boards ordered, I believe. But Soeren can tell you > > > > more about what exactly would be needed. > > > > > > I talked quite a bit with him. He seems quite knowledgable, and I don't > > > doubt his board will work. I will commit to at least ten units to start, > > > as long as we can structure this that the delivery happens no later than > > > 60 days after the cash goes out. > > > > > > -- > > > Don Wilde Don@Silver-Lynx.com > > > Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects > > > 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 > > > 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > > > > > Andrzej > > // ---------------------------------------------------------------- > // Andrzej Bialecki , Chief System Architect > // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) > // ---------------------------------------------------------------- > // FreeBSD developer (http://www.freebsd.org) > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sun Apr 15 19:39:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from rgmail.regenstrief.org (rgmail.regenstrief.org [134.68.31.197]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D44737B423 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:39:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gunther@aurora.regenstrief.org) Received: from aurora.regenstrief.org (aurora.rg.iupui.edu [134.68.31.122]) by rgmail.regenstrief.org (8.11.0/8.8.7) with ESMTP id f3G2R5A18136; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:27:06 -0500 Message-ID: <3ADA5831.A4DE0E1B@aurora.regenstrief.org> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:25:53 +0000 From: Gunther Schadow Organization: Regenstrief Institute for Health Care X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "E.B. Dreger" Cc: Chris Dillon , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Eddy, you wrote > My point was that I like Tulips... I'd expect 2x Tulip to cost a little > more than 3x SiS (NS now that I actually read dmesg output). If it works > and gets the job done, I'm happy. Well, but I *need* 3 ethernet ports, so, I prefer having three that just work over 2 tulips that also work :-) > Have you had a chance to test forwarding rate, in both Mbps and fps? You mean just packet forwarding and a little routing without any encryption? I can do that, although I might need four or more computers to actually create traffic w/o being themselves overloaded. I'll try to set something up. What is the rate that I should expect? Is there a standardized benchmark that I should use? (I have my own UDP streaming test tool that I use to measure bandwidths.) thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 9:30:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D92C537B423 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:30:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f3GGU2u09734; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:30:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:30:02 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Len Conrad Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010416093002.B6076@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3AD91B9A.581D977D@aurora.regenstrief.org> <5.0.0.25.0.20010415060946.057f0e80@mail.Go2France.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010415060946.057f0e80@mail.Go2France.com>; from LConrad@Go2France.com on Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 06:12:35AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 06:12:35AM +0200, Len Conrad wrote: >=20 > >hub :-(. I understand that the 486 class CPU is sort of a bottleneck > >for encryption work though, but Soren wanted to build a Hi/Fn based > >hardware crypto board too. Will be some fiddling with drivers though ... >=20 > Since FreeBSD has no hardware crypto support (vs OpenBSD) and none is=20 > on the announced horizon afaik, I conclude that "fiddling with=20 > drivers" is understating the difficulty of adding hardware crypto support. Mark Murray is currently working on integrating the OpenBSD kernel crypto support required to suport hardware crypto. If only someone built a cardbus crypto accelerator for my laptop. ;-) -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE62x4JXY6L6fI4GtQRAlPmAKCtajh7z+Qqw8zafwM0VgZa7qvkPACbBCfO A/tvmKOeIZhGnGYVvG3I4a8= =BfTk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --uQr8t48UFsdbeI+V-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 11: 7:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB6C37B43C for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:07:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01904; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:07:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:07:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Soren Kristensen Cc: Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <3AD8BADA.9F521991@soekris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Soren Kristensen wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I'm the hardware designer, so let me comments on your comments :-) > > Chris Dillon wrote: > > > > [...snip...] > > > sis0: port 0xe000-0xe0ff mem 0xa0000000-0xa0000ff > > > > Ewww... Is this a good enough Ethernet chipset? I've not had good > > luck with any of SiS's stuff. They seem to make, for lack of a nicer > > word, crap. > > > > This is not a SIS chip, but a National Semiconductor chip. They > have made ethernet chips for the last 20 years. I don't trust SIS > either, but I belive that the DP83815 is natsemi quality. I also > don't know why it's so close to the SIS chip, but natsemi probably > bought the MAC core design from SIS.... The design of the core itself is what I'm wondering about. Anybody can manufacture a quality chip these days, but it takes talent to design one. > The only limit on the DP83815 is the requirement for 32 bit > alligned RX buffers. Otherwise it has all the good features and is > cheap, $7 in 1K quantity. Not bad. But what is the cost of some of the better chips such as the DEC/Intel 21143 or even an Intel 8255x at that quantity? -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 11:13:53 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeby.mesanet.com (pm3-3-28.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19DA37B443 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pcw@mesanet.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freeby.mesanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25122; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:13:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Chris Dillon Cc: Soren Kristensen , Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Chris Dillon wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Soren Kristensen wrote: > > > Hi Chris, > > > > I'm the hardware designer, so let me comments on your comments :-) > > > > Chris Dillon wrote: > > > > > > [...snip...] > > > > sis0: port 0xe000-0xe0ff mem 0xa0000000-0xa0000ff > > > > > > Ewww... Is this a good enough Ethernet chipset? I've not had good > > > luck with any of SiS's stuff. They seem to make, for lack of a nicer > > > word, crap. > > > > > > > This is not a SIS chip, but a National Semiconductor chip. They > > have made ethernet chips for the last 20 years. I don't trust SIS > > either, but I belive that the DP83815 is natsemi quality. I also > > don't know why it's so close to the SIS chip, but natsemi probably > > bought the MAC core design from SIS.... > > The design of the core itself is what I'm wondering about. Anybody > can manufacture a quality chip these days, but it takes talent to > design one. > > > The only limit on the DP83815 is the requirement for 32 bit > > alligned RX buffers. Otherwise it has all the good features and is > > cheap, $7 in 1K quantity. > > Not bad. But what is the cost of some of the better chips such as the > DEC/Intel 21143 or even an Intel 8255x at that quantity? About 3-4 times the 83815... (when you add the PHY to the 21143 or use the overpriced Intel chip...) Besides I dont think I would do a new design with a 21143, who knows when Intel will drop it... PCW > > > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net > FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. > For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. > http://www.freebsd.org > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 11:22:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F85A37B43F for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02669; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:22:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:22:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: "Peter C. Wallace" Cc: Soren Kristensen , Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > Not bad. But what is the cost of some of the better chips such as the > > DEC/Intel 21143 or even an Intel 8255x at that quantity? > > About 3-4 times the 83815... (when you add the PHY to the 21143 or > use the overpriced Intel chip...) Well.... the 83815 looks like the only choice, then. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 11:36:47 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0016E37B43E for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:36:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA77181; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:36:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3ADB3BAD.8ACB54D9@soekris.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:36:29 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Chris, > > The only limit on the DP83815 is the requirement for 32 bit > > alligned RX buffers. Otherwise it has all the good features and is > > cheap, $7 in 1K quantity. > > Not bad. But what is the cost of some of the better chips such as the > DEC/Intel 21143 or even an Intel 8255x at that quantity? > First, I consider the DP83815 a great chip until proven otherwise :-) The 21143 is not really an option anymore after Intel bought DEC's chip business. It's an old chip without the newest feature, and it need an external phy. And I wouldn't be surprised if it suddenly got discontinued, like most of the other DEC chips.... Intel has the 82559ER as a low cost chip for embedded applications. It's a nice chip and cost $12 in the same 1K volume, but I'm not too happy about it's tiny 1mm pitch BGA package. But I really don't want to use Intel part if I can avoid it, we all know about their opinion about relasing information for open source projects, and they don't really care about small outfits like me.... I've very bad experience with them in the past. Regards, Soren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Mon Apr 16 11:38: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from a.mx.everquick.net (a.mx.everquick.net [216.89.137.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1FAA37B43C for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net) Received: from localhost (eddy@localhost) by a.mx.everquick.net (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3GIba825532; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:37:36 GMT X-EverQuick-No-Abuse: Report any e-mail abuse to Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:37:36 +0000 (GMT) From: "E.B. Dreger" To: Chris Dillon Cc: "Peter C. Wallace" , Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:22:39 -0500 (CDT) > From: Chris Dillon > > > > Not bad. But what is the cost of some of the better chips such as > > > the DEC/Intel 21143 or even an Intel 8255x at that quantity? > > > > About 3-4 times the 83815... (when you add the PHY to the 21143 or > > use the overpriced Intel chip...) > > Well.... the 83815 looks like the only choice, then. :-) Killing the 21143 would, IMHO, be stupid... we'd probably better plan on it happening. ;-) If the 83815 ends up being a good chip, and Intel does kill the Tulip, then it would be nice to know of alternatives to 3Com. If the NS chip works, I'm all for it... like Chris, I got a bit scared at the "sis" listing in dmesg. Doubts out of the way, I'm very eager to see what Soren makes, and hope that people can get together enough volume. :-) Eddy --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. EverQuick Internet / EternalCommerce Division Phone: (316) 794-8922 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 0: 8:29 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8349137B424 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:08:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA78397 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:08:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3ADBEBC1.6301E179@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:07:45 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: <3AD76BAA.25636489@aurora.regenstrief.org> <200104140611.IAA21508@marabu.marabu.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Everybody, Just a update.... First, thanks for all your interest in the net4501 board. I do have some limited funds avaliable, and have decided to go ahead and start the first production series this week. I will post again when I know when I can deliver and what the prices will be. And due to the economic downturn, parts avaliability have improved the last couple of months :-) so expect 5-7 weeks from now. But I would still be happy for prepaid orders, as that would enable me to make more boards at a lower cost. To encourage that, I will offer a discount for prepaid orders. The configuration for the first series is planned to be 133 Mhz CPU, 3 ethernet ports, 32 Mbyte SDRAM and 2 serial ports, and complete with a small metal case. Let me know if there's interest in other configurations. To see what's possible, take a look at the website: http://www.soekris.com/net4501.htm Also, please give me a hint if I'm off topic or generating too much noise on the list.... Regards, Soren Kristensen Soekris Engineering 19185 Taylor Avenue Morgan Hill, CA 95037-2714 Phone (408)782-2307, Fax (408)782-2317 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 12:49:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1626F37B635 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:49:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f3HJnQO04828; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:49:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:49:26 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Soren Kristensen Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010417124925.A2590@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3AD76BAA.25636489@aurora.regenstrief.org> <200104140611.IAA21508@marabu.marabu.ch> <3ADBEBC1.6301E179@soekris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3ADBEBC1.6301E179@soekris.com>; from soren@soekris.com on Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 12:07:45AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 12:07:45AM -0700, Soren Kristensen wrote: > The configuration for the first series is planned to be 133 Mhz > CPU, 3 ethernet ports, 32 Mbyte SDRAM and 2 serial ports, and > complete with a small metal case. Let me know if there's interest > in other configurations. To see what's possible, take a look at > the website: http://www.soekris.com/net4501.htm Will the metal case include machanical support for a PCI card or will it be the size of the board? I've got uses for each. Overall this system looks awesome. Thanks, Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE63J5FXY6L6fI4GtQRAs/qAJ9I3QUe+qKIb+pX6Uj8grTo7bZDxgCfVgDq z3iqsaFgleNhgmCPMyH6FOI= =lZD8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WIyZ46R2i8wDzkSu-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 14:43:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7716137B43F for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:43:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28659; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:43:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:43:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Soren Kristensen Cc: Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <3ADBEBC1.6301E179@soekris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Soren Kristensen wrote: > I do have some limited funds avaliable, and have decided to go > ahead and start the first production series this week. I will post > again when I know when I can deliver and what the prices will be. > And due to the economic downturn, parts avaliability have improved > the last couple of months :-) so expect 5-7 weeks from now. > > But I would still be happy for prepaid orders, as that would > enable me to make more boards at a lower cost. To encourage that, > I will offer a discount for prepaid orders. Where do I send the check? If you take credit cards, I can do that too. :-) > The configuration for the first series is planned to be 133 Mhz > CPU, 3 ethernet ports, 32 Mbyte SDRAM and 2 serial ports, and > complete with a small metal case. Let me know if there's interest > in other configurations. To see what's possible, take a look at > the website: http://www.soekris.com/net4501.htm I'd take one or two just like you've mentioned (133MHz, 32MB, 3*Ethernet, metal case). I assume that this does not come with a CompactFlash card. A trip down to the local electronics store is all that is required to get a CF card these days. IIRC, there are two types of CF cards... ones that are actually CF, and ones that have an ATA-Compatible interface. Which kind do we actually need, or will either type work? Does the board you will be making have both the MiniPCI and the regular PCI slot on them like the board on the website? I'm not sure what MiniPCI is supposed to look like, but the card edge connector hanging off the left side of the board in the picture on your website looks like it would be the regular 3.3V PCI slot, right? Is the area just below the CompactFlash slot (which looks somewhat like a pad for a PCMCIA slot) actually where the MiniPCI slot would go? If so, is MiniPCI similar to or even compatible with CardBus? Or is that for an actual PCMCIA/CardBus slot? :-) Also, how hard would it be to put 64MB on it? You might need to put 32MB on all of the units to keep manufacturing costs down, but if it isn't a big deal to put 64MB on some of them for people who need/want that much memory, I'll spring for that. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 14:55:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D01E437B424 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:55:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3HLoSI38855; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104172150.f3HLoSI38855@harmony.village.org> To: Chris Dillon Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:43:43 CDT." References: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:49:13 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message Chris Dillon writes: : types of CF cards... ones that are actually CF, and ones that have an : ATA-Compatible interface. Which kind do we actually need, or will : either type work? No. there is only one type of CF memory card. They all have the ATA compatibility interface. There are CF cards for ethernet and modems and such, but that shouldn't matter for tis. : Does the board you will be making have both the MiniPCI and the : regular PCI slot on them like the board on the website? I'm not sure : what MiniPCI is supposed to look like, but the card edge connector : hanging off the left side of the board in the picture on your website : looks like it would be the regular 3.3V PCI slot, right? Is the area : just below the CompactFlash slot (which looks somewhat like a pad for : a PCMCIA slot) actually where the MiniPCI slot would go? If so, is : MiniPCI similar to or even compatible with CardBus? Or is that for an : actual PCMCIA/CardBus slot? :-) minipci is PCI bus in a different form factor than the traditional edge connector that we see in PCs. Cardbus is also a different form factor, but there are other differences for it. You could put a cardbus bridge card on the mini-pci adapter. I'm hoping to do something like that to get a good bouncer box for pccard/cardbus work. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 15:26:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269EC37B422 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:26:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA80340; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:26:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:26:31 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Chris, Chris Dillon wrote: > > Where do I send the check? If you take credit cards, I can do that > too. :-) Prices and ordering information comming soon.... > > I'd take one or two just like you've mentioned (133MHz, 32MB, > 3*Ethernet, metal case). I assume that this does not come with a > CompactFlash card. A trip down to the local electronics store is all > that is required to get a CF card these days. IIRC, there are two > types of CF cards... ones that are actually CF, and ones that have an > ATA-Compatible interface. Which kind do we actually need, or will > either type work? That right, they will come without the CompactFlash card. As Warner said, there is only one kind of CF cards, but they can operate in 3 modes, all required per the spec: PC Card memory mode, PC Card I/O mode and True IDE mode. I'm running them in true IDE mode. The CompactFlash spec is at http://www.compactflash.org/ > > Does the board you will be making have both the MiniPCI and the > regular PCI slot on them like the board on the website? I'm not sure > what MiniPCI is supposed to look like, but the card edge connector > hanging off the left side of the board in the picture on your website > looks like it would be the regular 3.3V PCI slot, right? Is the area > just below the CompactFlash slot (which looks somewhat like a pad for > a PCMCIA slot) actually where the MiniPCI slot would go? If so, is > MiniPCI similar to or even compatible with CardBus? Or is that for an > actual PCMCIA/CardBus slot? :-) The board will have both the Std 3.3V PCI and the MiniPCI type III slot. The Area just below the CF socket is the MiniPCI type III socket, which is a 124 pins DIMM connector. (almost the same as laptop memory DIMM's) > Also, how hard would it be to put 64MB on it? You might need to put > 32MB on all of the units to keep manufacturing costs down, but if it > isn't a big deal to put 64MB on some of them for people who need/want > that much memory, I'll spring for that. I'm planning to offer both 32 Mbyte and 64 Mbyte version, as there seem to be interest for that. The 64 Mbyte will probably cost around $25 more, as 256 Mbit chips is still relative more expensive. Regards, Soren Kristensen Soekris Engineering 19185 Taylor Avenue Morgan Hill, CA 95037-2714 Phone (408)782-2307, Fax (408)782-2317 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 15:37:46 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B75637B422 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:37:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3HMbXI39392; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104172237.f3HMbXI39392@harmony.village.org> To: Soren Kristensen Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: Chris Dillon , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:26:31 PDT." <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> References: <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:36:18 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Soren Kristensen writes: : As Warner said, there is only one kind of CF cards, but they can : operate in 3 modes, all required per the spec: PC Card memory : mode, PC Card I/O mode and True IDE mode. I'm running them in true : IDE mode. The CompactFlash spec is at http://www.compactflash.org/ I've personally used 7 different brands of CF card in true IDE mode w/o hassles using a home grown adapter. SanDisk, Simple, Peripheral Enhacement Corp, Viking, TDK and Hitachi. I've yet to find any that won't work in True IDE. I did get one bad batch of Simple parts, however. They just up and died after a few days of use. All of them in that batch wound up going bad within two weeks. The other 100 odd CF parts that we'd use had no such problems. FreeBSD uses PCCARD I/O mode when you plug them into a pccard slot. Most of the parts support memory mapping as well, but memory mode only seems to support mapping two pages in at a time. I keep hearing rumors that there's a away to directly map up to 64M of these cards, but can find no datasheets that give enlightenment. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 15:47: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37C237B43C for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:47:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29496; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:46:57 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:46:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Warner Losh Cc: Soren Kristensen , Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <200104172150.f3HLoSI38855@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > In message Chris Dillon writes: > : types of CF cards... ones that are actually CF, and ones that have an > : ATA-Compatible interface. Which kind do we actually need, or will > : either type work? > > No. there is only one type of CF memory card. They all have the > ATA compatibility interface. There are CF cards for ethernet and > modems and such, but that shouldn't matter for tis. Aaah. I was confused when I saw a magazine selling different CF cards of the same brand with supposedly the only difference being the interface type. > : Does the board you will be making have both the MiniPCI and the > : regular PCI slot on them like the board on the website? I'm not sure > : what MiniPCI is supposed to look like, but the card edge connector > : hanging off the left side of the board in the picture on your website > : looks like it would be the regular 3.3V PCI slot, right? Is the area > : just below the CompactFlash slot (which looks somewhat like a pad for > : a PCMCIA slot) actually where the MiniPCI slot would go? If so, is > : MiniPCI similar to or even compatible with CardBus? Or is that for an > : actual PCMCIA/CardBus slot? :-) > > minipci is PCI bus in a different form factor than the traditional > edge connector that we see in PCs. Cardbus is also a different > form factor, but there are other differences for it. I figured MiniPCI was just a smaller PCI form factor, but I wasn't sure if they went so far as to use the physical PCMCIA-type slot or not. I was wondering since the description to the left of the picture of the board on the web site mentions that both a "right-angle" PCI slot and a MiniPCI slot were available on the board. I can only make out what looks like a regular PCI slot and then of course the CompactFlash slot. The only other place on the board for any other kind of slot is just below the CF slot, and it looks to me like it would be used for a PCMCIA slot, just judging by the silkscreen markings on the board and the layout of the solder pads. -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 15:55:50 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A354337B422 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29586; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:55:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:55:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Soren Kristensen Cc: Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Soren Kristensen wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Does the board you will be making have both the MiniPCI and the > > regular PCI slot on them like the board on the website? I'm not sure > > what MiniPCI is supposed to look like, but the card edge connector > > hanging off the left side of the board in the picture on your website > > looks like it would be the regular 3.3V PCI slot, right? Is the area > > just below the CompactFlash slot (which looks somewhat like a pad for > > a PCMCIA slot) actually where the MiniPCI slot would go? If so, is > > MiniPCI similar to or even compatible with CardBus? Or is that for an > > actual PCMCIA/CardBus slot? :-) > > The board will have both the Std 3.3V PCI and the MiniPCI type III > slot. The Area just below the CF socket is the MiniPCI type III > socket, which is a 124 pins DIMM connector. (almost the same as > laptop memory DIMM's) Cool! Are there many manufacturers who are making peripherals in the MiniPCI form factor yet? One interest might be a MiniPCI 802.11b card. > > Also, how hard would it be to put 64MB on it? You might need to put > > 32MB on all of the units to keep manufacturing costs down, but if it > > isn't a big deal to put 64MB on some of them for people who need/want > > that much memory, I'll spring for that. > > I'm planning to offer both 32 Mbyte and 64 Mbyte version, as there > seem to be interest for that. The 64 Mbyte will probably cost > around $25 more, as 256 Mbit chips is still relative more > expensive. I had figured about $30 more. $25 is even better. :-) -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16: 0: 7 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E34D37B43C for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f3HMxps09477; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:59:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:59:51 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Chris Dillon Cc: Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: ; from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us on Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:55:43PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:55:43PM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > Cool! Are there many manufacturers who are making peripherals in the > MiniPCI form factor yet? One interest might be a MiniPCI 802.11b > card. http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=3Dm57&page=3D2511&envelope=3D93 -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE63MrmXY6L6fI4GtQRAr6SAJ492bP0iz+w2eHnyQ9wKWheZnWjlQCeJz9J 0ItpHlnTDv6sG84gFQ1WYdI= =4VWu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EVF5PPMfhYS0aIcm-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:12:15 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A99E37B50E for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:12:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3HN8gI39697; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org> To: Brooks Davis Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: Chris Dillon , Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:59:51 PDT." <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:07:27 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Brooks Davis writes: : http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=m57&page=2511&envelope=93 Price? The web page in question didn't have anything. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:14:40 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from odin.ac.hmc.edu (Odin.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.75]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A0F37B449 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:14:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brdavis@odin.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by odin.ac.hmc.edu (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f3HNEPw13276; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:14:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:14:25 -0700 From: Brooks Davis To: Warner Losh Cc: Chris Dillon , Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010417161425.A12937@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> References: <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org>; from imp@harmony.village.org on Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:07:27PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:07:27PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Brooks Davis writes: > : http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=3Dm57&page=3D2511&envelope= =3D93 >=20 > Price? The web page in question didn't have anything. No clue. I just pointed it out because I'd see it a while back. I think they aren't very intrested in selling to people since the current market for MiniPCI is laptops and these won't work without an integrated antenna. -- Brooks --=20 Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE63M5QXY6L6fI4GtQRAjSzAJ9P9ZDiMV5pjMz2PTBW+J1Sntn5PACfcwnK KHAiILCDC4bxqKP8Zy+7qFQ= =IE9c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --sm4nu43k4a2Rpi4c-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:15:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1510E37B63F for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:15:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (cdillon@mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29819; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:15:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:15:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Dillon To: Brooks Davis Cc: Soren Kristensen , Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Brooks Davis wrote: > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:55:43PM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > > Cool! Are there many manufacturers who are making peripherals in the > > MiniPCI form factor yet? One interest might be a MiniPCI 802.11b > > card. > > http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=m57&page=2511&envelope=93 I see we have support for this in the form of the wi(4) driver. They mention that this is an OEM-only board, though, so I would probably have a hard time getting my hands on it. Any chance you could offer the 128-bit version as an additional option, Soren? :-) Where to find a correct antenna for the thing would be the next problem... Ideally, I'd stick some kind of connector on the case (BNC?) and attach a small rubber-ducky antenna to that. The connector would also allow a much larger remote external antenna on it, of course. Any ideas/URLs? -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:17: 4 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1589B37B422 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:17:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3HNGmI39804; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:16:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104172316.f3HNGmI39804@harmony.village.org> Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: Brooks Davis , Chris Dillon , Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:07:27 MDT." <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org> References: <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org> <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:15:33 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200104172308.f3HN8gI39697@harmony.village.org> Warner Losh writes: : In message <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Brooks Davis writes: : : http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=m57&page=2511&envelope=93 : : Price? The web page in question didn't have anything. Oh, I see it is only available to OEMs :-( Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:20:11 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from workhorse.iMach.com (workhorse.iMach.com [206.127.77.89]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B684137B443 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:20:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from forrestc@imach.com) Received: from localhost (forrestc@localhost) by workhorse.iMach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15462; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:02:19 -0600 (MDT) From: "Forrest W. Christian" To: Brooks Davis Cc: Warner Losh , Chris Dillon , Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <20010417161425.A12937@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm planning on oem'ing this (with soren's board) for my wireless router project. Will pass onto the list what I find out.. On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Brooks Davis wrote: > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:14:25 -0700 > From: Brooks Davis > To: Warner Losh > Cc: Chris Dillon , > Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: The ultimate board! > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:07:27PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > In message <20010417155950.A8939@Odin.AC.HMC.Edu> Brooks Davis writes: > > : http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=m57&page=2511&envelope=93 > > > > Price? The web page in question didn't have anything. > > No clue. I just pointed it out because I'd see it a while back. I > think they aren't very intrested in selling to people since the current > market for MiniPCI is laptops and these won't work without an integrated > antenna. > > -- Brooks > > -- > Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. > PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 > - Forrest W. Christian (forrestc@imach.com) AC7DE ---------------------------------------------------------------------- iMach, Ltd., P.O. Box 5749, Helena, MT 59604 http://www.imach.com Solutions for your high-tech problems. (406)-442-6648 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Tue Apr 17 16:23:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BE437B43F for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:23:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA80509; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:23:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3ADCD087.F6434A6F@soekris.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:23:51 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Dillon Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Wireless.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Chris, I have actually been looking on that board for a while, and are working on getting one for testing. I'm assuming that I would qualify as an OEM, although a small one.... That would also mean that I will locate antennas and make a version of my case to support them. I don't expect the board to be especially expensive. Soren Chris Dillon wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 05:55:43PM -0500, Chris Dillon wrote: > > > Cool! Are there many manufacturers who are making peripherals in the > > > MiniPCI form factor yet? One interest might be a MiniPCI 802.11b > > > card. > > > > http://www.wavelan.com/template.html?section=m57&page=2511&envelope=93 > > I see we have support for this in the form of the wi(4) driver. They > mention that this is an OEM-only board, though, so I would probably > have a hard time getting my hands on it. Any chance you could offer > the 128-bit version as an additional option, Soren? :-) > > Where to find a correct antenna for the thing would be the next > problem... Ideally, I'd stick some kind of connector on the case > (BNC?) and attach a small rubber-ducky antenna to that. The connector > would also allow a much larger remote external antenna on it, of > course. Any ideas/URLs? > > -- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net > FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. > For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development. > http://www.freebsd.org > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 18 4:17:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from home.cg.nu (home.cg.nu [213.196.2.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDD137B42C for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 04:17:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from henk@home.cg.nu) Received: from kpnlep (hdi7024.kpn.com [145.7.237.24]) by home.cg.nu (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C646158E73 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:17:51 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: From: "Henk Wevers" To: Subject: Live cdrom image? Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:17:50 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3ADCD087.F6434A6F@soekris.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Is it possible to make an live image on to a cdrom? Like a complete bootable FreeBSD os on the cd. PicoBSD on a bootable cdrom? And if there is, where can i find a howto?, or some similair howto? Henk Wevers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 18 10: 1:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.25.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EADF37B422 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:01:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from groove10@uclink4.berkeley.edu) Received: from freak-a-zoid.uclink4.berkeley.edu (adsl-63-203-73-35.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [63.203.73.35]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3IH14b29900 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20010418100001.00a81de0@uclink4.berkeley.edu> X-Sender: groove10@uclink4.berkeley.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:03:22 -0700 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG From: Mike Schmittdiel Subject: PPPoE support Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Just poking my nose into this project because it looks like it fits my needs perfectly. I know FreeBSD has PPPoE support (through what cleint I don't know), but I couldn't find anywhere detailing this info about Pico-BSD. If this feature is not in the "standard" Pico-BSD kernel, is it possible to add this feature? Any info on the subject would be appreciated. -Mike Schmittdiel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 18 10:46:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.6.9.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0ADC37B423 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:46:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@soco.agilent.com) Received: from msgrel1.and.agilent.com (msgrel1.and.agilent.com [130.30.33.104]) by msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342AEE5E; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (mina.soco.agilent.com [141.121.54.157]) by msgrel1.and.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9876CB2; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (darrylo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mina.soco.agilent.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3 SMKit7.1.1_Agilent) with ESMTP id KAA09606; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> To: Soren Kristensen Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:26:31 PDT." <3ADCC317.AAE544DD@soekris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.6) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:46:09 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Soren Kristensen wrote: > That right, they will come without the CompactFlash card. > > As Warner said, there is only one kind of CF cards, but they can > operate in 3 modes, all required per the spec: PC Card memory > mode, PC Card I/O mode and True IDE mode. I'm running them in true > IDE mode. The CompactFlash spec is at http://www.compactflash.org/ Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a DHCP server that handles mac addresses). -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@soco.agilent.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Wed Apr 18 10:57:32 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (dnai-216-15-61-44.cust.dnai.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186E937B43C for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:57:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA82437; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:57:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3ADDD57F.61AA6EC8@soekris.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:57:19 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darryl Okahata Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Darryl, > Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm > interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used > (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a > DHCP server that handles mac addresses). > Yes, the CompactFlash socket is a type II, and the Microdrive should therefore work. I haven't tested it yet, but I will make it to work if there is any problems.... Regards, Soren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 9:31: 6 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C099737B423 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:31:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3JGTc804728; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104191629.f3JGTc804728@harmony.village.org> To: Darryl Okahata Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: Soren Kristensen , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:46:09 PDT." <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> References: <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:29:38 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: : Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm : interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used : (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a : DHCP server that handles mac addresses). Yes, but 64M CF parts are cheaper and more reliable. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 9:44:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.6.9.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68EB37B42C for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:44:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@soco.agilent.com) Received: from msgrel1.and.agilent.com (msgrel1.and.agilent.com [130.30.33.104]) by msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F40F158D; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (mina.soco.agilent.com [141.121.54.157]) by msgrel1.and.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B9EEA; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (darrylo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mina.soco.agilent.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3 SMKit7.1.1_Agilent) with ESMTP id JAA12824; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200104191644.JAA12824@mina.soco.agilent.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:29:38 MDT." <200104191629.f3JGTc804728@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.6) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:44:44 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > : Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm > : interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used > : (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a > : DHCP server that handles mac addresses). > > Yes, but 64M CF parts are cheaper and more reliable. True, but the idea that a CF-based router *WILL* fail is, well, distasteful. [ The DHCP server keeps the leases on disk. In an home environment, it should be possible to use a CF card, as clients don't come and go all that often, but I don't know enough about FFS to be sure. ] [ Heh. Commercial entities would call this, "planned obsolescence". ;-) ] -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@soco.agilent.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 9:51:25 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from cotdazr.org (cotdazr.org [209.239.229.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 54AE637B42C for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from efb@cotdazr.org) Received: (qmail 15485 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Apr 2001 16:51:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:51:16 -0700 From: Everett F Batey To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010419095116.B15279@cotdazr.org> Reply-To: efb-all@vhwy.com References: <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> <200104191629.f3JGTc804728@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: <200104191629.f3JGTc804728@harmony.village.org>; from Warner Losh on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:29:38AM -0600 X-Operating-System: gcpacix.cotdazr.org FreeBSD X-Tele: +1 805 985.3146 / 805 340.6471 Pg 888 522-VHWY X-URL: http://www.cotdazr.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner, For me, better question yet: What would it cost to combine enough disk, user account builder, webserver, DNS, proxyserver, add FreeBSD, OpenBSD or Linux to a footprint like a small Cisco 1600 or slightly racksize larger Cisco 2500/2600 with ipfilter, ipNAT, VPN and bring it to market for ALL the DSL and CABLE and Wireless users. Bet it could be effectively marketed for less than half the cost of a Cisco 1600 stripped and little more than the Cadillac of the computer store DSL/Cable hub-routers. Thoughts ? On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 10:29:38AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <200104181746.KAA09606@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: > : Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm > : interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used > : (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a > : DHCP server that handles mac addresses). > > Yes, but 64M CF parts are cheaper and more reliable. > > Warner > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message -- + http://www.vhwy.com efb@vhwy.com WA6CRE@arrl.net http://www.cotdazr.org + + PocketNet Mail to efbatey@mobile.att.net / Cell/VoiceMail 805 340-6471 + + Unix BSD, Sun, HP SCO Linux Security Cisco Routing DataFellows QMail DNS + To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 9:59: 9 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B01B37B423 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3JGwo804947; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104191658.f3JGwo804947@harmony.village.org> To: Darryl Okahata Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:44:44 PDT." <200104191644.JAA12824@mina.soco.agilent.com> References: <200104191644.JAA12824@mina.soco.agilent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:58:50 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200104191644.JAA12824@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: : Warner Losh wrote: : : > : Does the IBM microdrive work (it's got a CF interface)? I'm : > : interested, but I'd be more interested if the microdrive could be used : > : (like everyone else, I'd really like to make a "low-power" router with a : > : DHCP server that handles mac addresses). : > : > Yes, but 64M CF parts are cheaper and more reliable. : : True, but the idea that a CF-based router *WILL* fail is, well, : distasteful. : : [ The DHCP server keeps the leases on disk. In an home environment, it : should be possible to use a CF card, as clients don't come and go all : that often, but I don't know enough about FFS to be sure. ] : : [ Heh. Commercial entities would call this, "planned obsolescence". ;-) ] CF parts have 10e5 to 10e6 writes per block typically. You would have to do a lot of writes to the CF to wear it out. And we've found that in hostile environments, the CF have been much more reliable than the IDE hard disks they replaced. Even if it was an issue, you could keep the leases on /tmp (make it MFS) and then run a script once an hour to write it to the CF. Ditto at shutdown. I once calculated that at 1 write per hour, the CF parts that I was evaluating would last on the order of 1000s years (based only on the wear of the flash parts). Based on 10e5 writes per block, 8k blocks and 5M of available space, 1 write per second is about 723 days, assuming even wear on each of the available blocks (unless I've messed up my calculations). That puts it at two years. one write per minute would be 120 years and one write per hour would be 7200 years. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 10: 1:55 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [213.162.131.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF60A37B424 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: from mx.webgiro.com (unknown [192.168.10.2]) by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0131003FF; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:14:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 73BF37817; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:01:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 718B710E1E; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:01:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:01:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: efb-all@vhwy.com Cc: Warner Losh , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <20010419095116.B15279@cotdazr.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Everett F Batey wrote: > Warner, > > For me, better question yet: What would it cost to combine enough > disk, user account builder, webserver, DNS, proxyserver, add FreeBSD, > OpenBSD or Linux to a footprint like a small Cisco 1600 or slightly > racksize larger Cisco 2500/2600 with ipfilter, ipNAT, VPN and bring > it to market for ALL the DSL and CABLE and Wireless users. Bet it > could be effectively marketed for less than half the cost of a > Cisco 1600 stripped and little more than the Cadillac of the computer > store DSL/Cable hub-routers. > > Thoughts ? Congratulations! You just reinvented the InterJet. :-) Andrzej // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // Andrzej Bialecki , Chief System Architect // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // FreeBSD developer (http://www.freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 11: 9:12 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from nwlynx.network-lynx.net (nwlynx.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C234237B423 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:09:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Received: from Silver-Lynx.com (doze-1.network-lynx.net [63.122.185.106]) by nwlynx.network-lynx.net (8.11.1/8.9.3/Who.Cares) with ESMTP id f3JI93817931; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:09:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Don@Silver-Lynx.com) Message-ID: <3ADF29AA.E6327C33@Silver-Lynx.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:08:42 -0600 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Congratulations! You just reinvented the InterJet. > Given that IBM has made the IJ such an ongoingly expensive proposition, I think that the market niche is once again a viable one. Ask Terry Lambert to configure it for you, he could probably do it in his sleep. -- Don Wilde Don@Silver-Lynx.com Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 15:26:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.6.9.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FDC37B422 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:26:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@soco.agilent.com) Received: from msgrel1.and.agilent.com (msgrel1.and.agilent.com [130.30.33.104]) by msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CBF4C20; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:26:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (mina.soco.agilent.com [141.121.54.157]) by msgrel1.and.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF6647; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (darrylo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mina.soco.agilent.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3 SMKit7.1.1_Agilent) with ESMTP id PAA21832; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:58:50 MDT." <200104191658.f3JGwo804947@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.6) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:26:32 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > Based on 10e5 writes per block, 8k blocks and 5M of available space, 1 > write per second is about 723 days, assuming even wear on each of the > available blocks (unless I've messed up my calculations). That puts > it at two years. one write per minute would be 120 years and one > write per hour would be 7200 years. ... but, you can't assume even wear. Don't directory entries, etc., get written in the same place, over and over? What about superblocks? Still, even if you assume 2 writes a minute (once every 30 seconds???) to the same block, over and over, it's still over two years (1e5 writes -- I'm assuming that you mean "100000" for "10e5", and not "1000000"). [ Of course, if one were to write a new/special filesystem that ensured even wear, that would work well for CF .... ] -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@soco.agilent.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 16: 9:20 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE46837B422 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:09:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3JN9F807969; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104192309.f3JN9F807969@harmony.village.org> To: Darryl Okahata Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:26:32 PDT." <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> References: <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:09:15 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: : > Based on 10e5 writes per block, 8k blocks and 5M of available space, 1 : > write per second is about 723 days, assuming even wear on each of the : > available blocks (unless I've messed up my calculations). That puts : > it at two years. one write per minute would be 120 years and one : > write per hour would be 7200 years. : : ... but, you can't assume even wear. Don't directory entries, : etc., get written in the same place, over and over? What about : superblocks? The hardware does remapping behind the scenes so that wear is averaged over the set of blocks that change. On a 16M part, there would be about 5M free/changing in the average system, so teh calcuations would hold for that. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 16:10:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from harmony.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A232D37B424 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:10:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Received: from harmony.village.org (localhost.village.org [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3JNAa807989; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:10:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@harmony.village.org) Message-Id: <200104192310.f3JNAa807989@harmony.village.org> To: Darryl Okahata Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:26:32 PDT." <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> References: <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:10:36 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: : ... but, you can't assume even wear. Don't directory entries, : etc., get written in the same place, over and over? What about : superblocks? You can assume even wear becahse wear averaging is in the CF hardware. There's a pool of extra blocks that are used to average the wear. At least that's what the CF propiganda says from SandDisk. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 16:42:51 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from freeby.mesanet.com (pm3-3-37.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 288A237B424 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:42:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from pcw@mesanet.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freeby.mesanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02587 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Peter C. Wallace" To: Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <200104192310.f3JNAa807989@harmony.village.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Warner Losh wrote: > In message <200104192226.PAA21832@mina.soco.agilent.com> Darryl Okahata writes: > : ... but, you can't assume even wear. Don't directory entries, > : etc., get written in the same place, over and over? What about > : superblocks? > > You can assume even wear becahse wear averaging is in the CF hardware. > There's a pool of extra blocks that are used to average the wear. At > least that's what the CF propiganda says from SandDisk. Thats what the data sheet for the CF controller chips (Toshiba) that we use says also. The extra blocks are not for wear leveling, thats taken care of by having enough free space. The free blocks are for remapping newly developed bad blocks: so called "grown" defects. The Toshiba controller chip implements wear leveling, bad block forwarding and ECC. So basically if you leave enough free space on the drive for your frequently written files to "rotate" through. You can have _very_ long life. The internal flash format the Toshiba uses is published (its the same as the SmartMedia format) > > Warner > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message > Peter Wallace To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 19:10:45 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from borg.inreach.com (borg.inreach.com [209.142.2.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AB3BF37B423 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:10:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from norami@unlimited.net) Received: (qmail 15285 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 02:10:32 -0000 Received: from 209-142-4-28.stk.inreach.net (HELO unlimited.net) (209.142.4.28) by mail.unlimited.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 02:10:32 -0000 Message-ID: <3ADF9B75.81E8C93@unlimited.net> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:14:13 -0700 From: John Oram X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Don Wilde Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: <3ADF29AA.E6327C33@Silver-Lynx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Don: Since Everett got stopped in his tracks by Andrzej Bialecki comment on reinventing an IBM owned toy. I'll ask the next question: How does one find Mr. Terry Lambert whom you mentioned? John Oram Don Wilde wrote: > > > Congratulations! You just reinvented the InterJet. > > > Given that IBM has made the IJ such an ongoingly expensive proposition, > I think that the market niche is once again a viable one. Ask Terry > Lambert to configure it for you, he could probably do it in his sleep. > -- > Don Wilde Don@Silver-Lynx.com > Silver Lynx Embedded Microsystems Architects > 2218 Southern Bl. Ste. 12 Rio Rancho, NM 87124 > 505-891-4175 FAX 891-4185 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Thu Apr 19 20:13:23 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (msgbas1x.cos.agilent.com [192.6.9.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC72A37B423 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:13:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from darrylo@soco.agilent.com) Received: from msgrel1.and.agilent.com (msgrel1.and.agilent.com [130.30.33.104]) by msgbas1.cos.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1341428; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (mina.soco.agilent.com [141.121.54.157]) by msgrel1.and.agilent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2B12D; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mina.soco.agilent.com (darrylo@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mina.soco.agilent.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3 SMKit7.1.1_Agilent) with ESMTP id UAA24738; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200104200313.UAA24738@mina.soco.agilent.com> To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Reply-To: Darryl Okahata In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:09:15 MDT." <200104192309.f3JN9F807969@harmony.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.6) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:13:01 -0700 From: Darryl Okahata Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Warner Losh wrote: > : ... but, you can't assume even wear. Don't directory entries, > : etc., get written in the same place, over and over? What about > : superblocks? > > The hardware does remapping behind the scenes so that wear is > averaged over the set of blocks that change. On a 16M part, there > would be about 5M free/changing in the average system, so teh > calcuations would hold for that. Oh, cool. I didn't know that. -- Darryl Okahata darrylo@soco.agilent.com DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 20 11:52:28 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from exchange.corp.cre8.com (ns.cre8.com [205.198.91.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B351037B423 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:52:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sullrich@CRE8.COM) Received: by exchange.corp.cre8.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2VRXBC77>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:52:20 -0400 Message-ID: <19C6D5F6098A9942995B6A76BAA5931EEC463E@exchange.corp.cre8.com> From: Scott Ullrich To: "'freebsd-small@freebsd.org'" Subject: subscribe Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:52:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 20 12:37:57 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from cotdazr.org (cotdazr.org [209.239.229.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D75A37B42C for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:37:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from efb@cotdazr.org) Received: (qmail 21564 invoked by uid 1001); 20 Apr 2001 19:37:52 -0000 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:37:52 -0700 From: Everett F Batey To: Andrzej Bialecki Cc: efb-all@vhwy.com, Warner Losh , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! Message-ID: <20010420123751.B21373@cotdazr.org> Reply-To: efb@vhwy.com References: <20010419095116.B15279@cotdazr.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.5i In-Reply-To: ; from Andrzej Bialecki on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:01:44PM +0200 X-Operating-System: gcpacix.cotdazr.org FreeBSD X-Tele: +1 805 985.3146 / 805 340.6471 Pg 888 522-VHWY X-URL: http://www.cotdazr.org Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrzej, Thank you for all that credit .. I disagree I DID NOT INVENT nor did I REINVENT the WHATCHAMACALLIT .. I ASKED A QUESTION .. It was as straightforward as I could ask that question ? If some one did it and sold some, I might buy one. Did you invent, sell or buy one ? Did / does it work ? Who would I want to contact, email, telephone, cell block, etc ? if one exists ? OTHERWISE, Still standing is the question what do those of you who are around here a long time view of the feasibility and cost to bring that Whatchamacallit to market today ??? Oh, InterJet, hell I cant even fly (-: :-) /Ev/ On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:01:44PM +0200, Andrzej Bialecki wrote: > > For me, better question yet: What would it cost to combine enough > > disk, user account builder, webserver, DNS, proxyserver, add FreeBSD, > > OpenBSD or Linux to a footprint like a small Cisco 1600 or slightly > > racksize larger Cisco 2500/2600 with ipfilter, ipNAT, VPN and bring > > it to market for ALL the DSL and CABLE and Wireless users. Bet it > > could be effectively marketed for less than half the cost of a > > Cisco 1600 stripped and little more than the Cadillac of the computer > > store DSL/Cable hub-routers. > > > > Thoughts ? > > Congratulations! You just reinvented the InterJet. > -- + http://www.vhwy.com efb@vhwy.com WA6CRE@arrl.net http://www.cotdazr.org + + PocketNet Mail to efbatey@mobile.att.net / Cell/VoiceMail 805 340-6471 + + Unix BSD, Sun, HP SCO Linux Security Cisco Routing DataFellows QMail DNS + To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Fri Apr 20 14:47:59 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from mimer.webgiro.com (mimer.webgiro.com [213.162.131.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DB437B423 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:47:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from abial@webgiro.com) Received: from mx.webgiro.com (unknown [192.168.10.2]) by mimer.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9EC71003FF; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:00:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 95C4D7817; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:47:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.webgiro.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B97010E1E; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:47:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:47:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Andrzej Bialecki To: efb@vhwy.com Cc: efb-all@vhwy.com, Warner Losh , freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! In-Reply-To: <20010420123751.B21373@cotdazr.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Everett F Batey wrote: > Andrzej, > > Thank you for all that credit .. I disagree I DID NOT INVENT nor > did I REINVENT the WHATCHAMACALLIT .. I ASKED A QUESTION .. Easy, easy, pal... No reason to get so worked up. Noticed the smiley? > > It was as straightforward as I could ask that question ? If some > one did it and sold some, I might buy one. > > Did you invent, sell or buy one ? Did / does it work ? > > Who would I want to contact, email, telephone, cell block, etc ? > if one exists ? > > OTHERWISE, Still standing is the question what do those of you > who are around here a long time view of the feasibility and cost Just an aside: I've been probably the first one on this list. Go and check the cvs logs in src/release/picobsd. :-) > to bring that Whatchamacallit to market today ??? > > Oh, InterJet, hell I cant even fly (-: :-) What I was referring to was a concrete product - InterJet - of a company called Whistle, who was (unfortunately) aquired by IBM. They produced and sold considerable numbers of exactly such device. Quite a number of core FreeBSD developers worked for them, among them Terry, Julian, Archie, and a couple of others... Unfortunately, after the aquisition the product vanished from the market and (as far as I know) is available only as a part of an overpriced service offering from IBM. So, maybe this is the right time for the next InterJet... Andrzej // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // Andrzej Bialecki , Chief System Architect // WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com) // ---------------------------------------------------------------- // FreeBSD developer (http://www.freebsd.org) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 21 11:47:42 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from edna.bus.net (edna.bus.net [207.41.24.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C151137B424 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:47:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Received: from bus.net (7.ct5.dyn.connix.net [209.66.146.70]) by edna.bus.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22580 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:47:41 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mso@bus.net) Message-ID: <3AE1D577.593CC939@bus.net> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 14:46:15 -0400 From: "Michael S. O'Donnell" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: The ultimate board! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > one write per minute would be 120 years and one write per > hour would be 7200 years. regardless of cycling, mtbf of today's submicron design limits us to 10 years. that pretty much goes for every part on the board. if you have an application which calls for more than that, you'll need to keep component temperature at or below 25 degrees C (although a write cyle limit is a write cycle limit). we all have enjoyed a lot of use from old 386, 486, HC, and 8051 hardware that lasted seemingly forever but, in my heart of hearts, i beleive those days have gone. > So, maybe this is the right time for the next InterJet... > bring that Whatchamacallit to market today compile a hardware (xx storage, 486 running at whatever, yy ether ports expandable to zz, compatability with supermegafragalistic opto magic, yellowish greentooth radio magic, T1, dsl, et cetera) and functionality wishlist (i'm unfamiliar with these designs). i'm pretty short on time but, i'd be glad to look into trying to put something together. we could get started on something common like a pc104 platform and attack it piecemeal to find bottlenecks and cost centers. once we've hammered it out i'll design a custom board and FPGAs. i'm paying around $50 per board for one-offs (plus components) and prices will drop precipitously once we get into volumes of 100s. i'm desperate for a challenge (i'm designing battery chargers right now and it is getting mighty sleepy) and am willing to carry a fair amount of the development cost. my abilities will limit my contribution to the software end to around nil. Michael O'Donnell mso at bus dot net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 21 12:17:44 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from server.soekris.com (soekris.com [216.15.61.44]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 209B137B422 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:17:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Received: from soekris.com ([192.168.1.4]) by server.soekris.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA91904 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:17:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from soren@soekris.com) Message-ID: <3AE1DCD3.2CF8DDEC@soekris.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:17:39 -0700 From: Soren Kristensen Organization: Soekris Engineering X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ultimate board! References: <3AE1D577.593CC939@bus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Everybody, Me again.... Also, please note that my website is up again. Everett F Batey wrote: > > For me, better question yet: What would it cost to combine enough > disk, user account builder, webserver, DNS, proxyserver, add FreeBSD, > OpenBSD or Linux to a footprint like a small Cisco 1600 or slightly > racksize larger Cisco 2500/2600 with ipfilter, ipNAT, VPN and bring > it to market for ALL the DSL and CABLE and Wireless users. Bet it > could be effectively marketed for less than half the cost of a > Cisco 1600 stripped and little more than the Cadillac of the computer > store DSL/Cable hub-routers. > That is the integrated gateway thing, just like the Whistle Interjet.... But that was never really sold as a box only, and was way too expensive anyway. Just to let you know, I'm already planning the next board, which would meet the above requirements.... It will be something like: 200-266 Mhz. National Semiconductor Geode SC3200 32-128 Mbyte SDRAM, soldered on board + expansion SO-DIMM 2-4 Mbit BIOS/BOOT Flash CompactFLASH Type I/II socket UDMA33 IDE Interface, 40 pins & 44 pins. 2-4 10/100 mbit Ethernet ports, RJ-45 2 Serial ports, DB9 MiniPCI type III socket. (t.ex for optional hardware encryption) PCI Slot, right angle 3.3V only. (t.ex for optional WAN board) Parallel Port, 26 pins header Low Power & Fanless Board size 5" x 7" Small Case with room for 2.5" drive Case for 1U 19" rackmount, with room for 2 x 3.5" drives Software: comBIOS for full headless operation over serial port PXE boot rom for diskless booting Designed for Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD Specification are subject to change, and don't expect production until 3 months from now. Regards, Soren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-small Sat Apr 21 13:35: 8 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-small@freebsd.org Received: from home.cg.nu (home.cg.nu [213.196.2.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D9937B422 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:35:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from henk@home.cg.nu) Received: from kpnlep (cg.nu [62.163.140.117]) by home.cg.nu (Postfix) with SMTP id 47665159188 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 22:34:53 +0200 (CEST) Reply-To: From: "Henk Wevers" To: "freebsd-small@FreeBSD. ORG" Subject: PicoBSD who is maintaining this? Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 22:34:53 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-small@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, PicoBSD is not working correct, there are problems with the scripts. Is PicoBSD mantained? Henk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-small" in the body of the message