From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 07:19:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC4D16A4A0 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:19:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xiabcixe@nordam.com) Received: from nordam.com (220-129-77-219.dynamic.hinet.net [220.129.77.219]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D084D43D5C for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:17:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from xiabcixe@nordam.com) Message-ID: <02001c70072$3cec81a0$6213e9e0@wconsentm> From: "U N" To: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:18:46 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: This will feel good ga X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: U N List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:19:07 -0000 INSIDE INFO ALERT This advisory is based on exclusive insiders/agents information. (AVLN.OB) Avalon Energy Corporation has an undivided 85% working interest in the Shotgun Draw Prospect in the prolific natural gas producing Uinta Basin , located in the US Rockies, Utah . The lease comprises 13,189 acres with a potential 4 TCF recoverable gas and is overpressured by a 0.55 . 0.85 gradient. ON MONDAY NOV 6th: at 11 cents its a STEAL - Volume: 389,001 - Volume: + 50% - Price: +5.77% The key to any tade is buying low and selling high, WELL the energy market has bottomed out and time to get in is now. We specialise in calling market bottom and when it comes to energy THIS IS THE BOTTOM, SO GET IN FOLKS LIGHTNING FAST RESULTS LIGHTNING FAST RESULTS "This arrest really does help with some of the closure, the healing that we in the Forest Service community, and in the families, need," said Jeanne Wade Evans, the San Bernardino National Forest supervisor. Small planes could previously fly below 1,100 feet along the river without filing flight plans or checking in with air traffic control. The FAA said the rule change -- a temporary one -- was made for safety reasons. "The truth is the Democrats can't answer that question," Bush said. "Harsh criticism is not a plan for victory. Second guessing is not a strategy. Oyler "adamantly denies involvement in this fire and in any of these fires," attorney Mark McDonald said outside court. "He's very distraught and scared ... The finger is pointing at him." From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 12:15:09 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81AA416A407 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:15:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [83.120.8.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEEDC43F08 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:09:17 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (uzyroz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id kARCA4Uq029324; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:10:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.13.4/8.13.1/Submit) id kARCA4HN029323; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:10:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:10:04 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200611271210.kARCA4HN029323@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, mchauber@gmx.net In-Reply-To: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-advocacy User-Agent: tin/1.8.2-20060425 ("Shillay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/4.11-STABLE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:10:10 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, mchauber@gmx.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 12:15:09 -0000 Mike Hauber wrote: > [...] > PS...  One more question...  Being that Linux emulation is available > as a port for the BSDs, I would assume (but haven't taken the time > to research) that GPLd code is used.  If there comes to be issues > with Linux, what would that mean for BSDs compatibility in regards > to emulation? FreeBSD's "Linuxulator" consists of two parts: The kernel ABI which implements the Linux syscalls (usually loaded as a kernel module), and the userland part (Linux libs, some binaries etc.) that's located in/compat/linux. [*] The former has been implemented by FreeBSD programmers and therefore is under BSD license, not GPL. The latter comes from a stock Fedora Core 4 distribution, most of which is under GPL license. Personally I don't believe that the SCO issue will lead to any problems with generic Linux code. But _if_ there will be such problems, then it might affect the userland part in /compat/linux. It will _not_ affect the Linux ABI in the kernel. In the worst case you won't be able to run dynamically linked Linux programs anymore that depend on Linux libraries for which you don't have a license. You will still be able to run statically linked Linux binaries (provided you have the licenses to run them if required, of course). Best regards Oliver PS: [*] There's also linprocfs, which is a synthetic file system implementing PROCFS for Linux compatibility. It's usually mounted on /compat/linux/proc if required (not all Linux programs require it). As far as I know, it is also a re-implementation and thus under BSD license, so there's no problem. -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing Dienstleistungen mit Schwerpunkt FreeBSD: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead." -- RFC 1925 From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 20:05:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFE016A412 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:05:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from thin.berklix.org (thin.berklix.org [194.246.123.68]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28BB4549D for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:51:41 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from js.berklix.net (p549A7936.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.121.54]) (authenticated bits=128) by thin.berklix.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id kARIqdLn005030; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (fire.jhs.private [192.168.91.41]) by js.berklix.net (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARIqWAs011348; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:33 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@flat.berklix.net) Received: from fire.jhs.private (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.jhs.private (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id kARIqWWx040044; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@fire.jhs.private) Received: (from jhs@localhost) by fire.jhs.private (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id kARIqWCt040043; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:52:32 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200611271852.kARIqWCt040043@fire.jhs.private> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Julian Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen Fcc: sent User-agent: EXMH http://beedub.com/exmh/ on FreeBSD http://freebsd.org X-URL: http://berklix.com/~jhs/cv/ X-Fallback: jhs@mail.brierdr.com, jhs@freebsd.org, jhs@berklix.net Subject: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to Microsoft? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:05:26 -0000 Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ? I've been asked to give a presentation (in English) to a bunch of engineers in Munich end of Jan 2007. On the basis "A good engineer is a lazy engineer", I'm asking before I write my own. I am _Not_ inviting a long thread, to rehash old well worn opinions of PD src/ etc. It'd bore me silly to read, let alone respond ;-) & be very inefficient & achieve nothing useful to me. I have decades of experience as an engineer & with Unix/BSD & have a BSD group here to back me up with ideas & criticism verbally & localy, faster, more efficient than typing etc :-) What I don't have, but seek is a set of beamer slides I could leverage from to save me time. (BTW I could equally leverage from German or perhaps French slides if existant). I could also leverage from a linux based slide set prob faster than starting from scratch, or at least for inspiration. Anyone know of a similar presention pre-exisiting, Re. Unix that I could leverage from (& give credit to) ? Of course if I have to write my own, I'll make mine public on web for others to leverage from). I'll probably use a beamer with /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint unless advised better ? (I dont fancy open office bloat to show .pps, & dont particularly want to learn how to prepare .pps slides, (though I'll probably show a few .pss) from a different topic to show that power point presentations are also showable under BSD. I've bcc'd this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ where Ernst has volunteered to help me, & others welcome too, but prob. best focus short discussion searching for URLs for now via list freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Then later, nearer date doubtless some local mail to BIM's list. URLs to presentations welcome. Thanks Julian -- Julian Stacey. BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen http://berklix.com Mail Ascii, not HTML. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. http://berklix.org/free-software From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 27 22:09:44 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EF416A415 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from green.dls.net (green.dls.net [209.242.20.70]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3392F43DB2 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:47:14 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from emailrob.com (216-145-235-151.rev.dls.net [216.145.235.151]) by green.dls.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F206F411B91 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:47:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <456B5D28.4060807@emailrob.com> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:48:24 +0000 From: rob_spellberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_advocacy References: <200611271852.kARIqWCt040043@fire.jhs.private> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to Microsoft? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:09:45 -0000 this is exactly the kind of thing that i could use in a training concept that i am launching in early 2007. one of my foci is on startups/entrepreneurs and their limited funds, e. g., licensing fees, open_source in general, make_versus_buy in general, "the unix way", the joy of diy, reliability, trust, inexpensive networking, more inexpensive machines [ servers and content ], fewer expensive machines [ graphics and presentation ]. my target audience for this focus is new members of local chambers of commerce. now, i can do most of this myself for those areas with which i am familiar, but there are other areas [ some of which i --would-- actually remember ], with which i have little contact, where i wouldn't do such a good job. for example, i am just --not-- a multimedia kind of guy [ on computers, anyway; i --love-- film - go figure ]. i particularly like the idea of incorporating some one or more things produced by someone else, to whom i then give prominent credit, because it tangibly demonstrates the existence of our global community. perhaps there is something i can contribute? [ hmmm ... [ pause for rumination ]. isn't this the kind of thing that ought to be on the website for downloading? ] i am subscribed to -advocacy. rob Julian Stacey wrote: > Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ? > > [ snip ] From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 06:30:20 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7187816A4C2 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:30:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.234]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3E143CC3 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:24:33 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s18so1758506wxc for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:24:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=bCUQ81AbxuXPVWWuEfVrxtzrxnfVJZUpw/cL4U685ON15ZxxzIq5UF+g9k1uiAY16CeBDkm7wlr56S3Dz+5r6wXda/Z05fUKAJk6hSiE6/qAKj7Cm3zAddbatS2mXp2VXbuxsF8N1FBRwncrv58rn6mOUrZeOvNnv6E78fzEUDk= Received: by 10.90.86.10 with SMTP id j10mr370359agb.1164673509995; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:25:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 16:25:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611271625p5cecce60m391b2a288bf4a54b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:25:09 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: "Julian Stacey" In-Reply-To: <200611271852.kARIqWCt040043@fire.jhs.private> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611271852.kARIqWCt040043@fire.jhs.private> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4ba4a4cc191fe54e Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to Microsoft? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 06:30:20 -0000 Hello Julian, I can take a look of something which i used in past but is mostly alternatives on workstation level for public administration (cos I'm solving such issues in European Commisssion) the use of open standards such as ODF and PDF/A which is the *MOST* discussed issue within the European Union. Workstation use of Linux and Server running BSD, explanation of why apache foundation was and is so sucessfull and so on.. Hopefully I have it with me, if not You must wait until I come back home to Slovakia and check my workstation at home. Jan ps: anyway, it's better to prepare something yourself and you can use mine as inspiration (or copy/paste even:) On 11/27/06, Julian Stacey wrote: > Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ? > > I've been asked to give a presentation (in English) to a bunch of > engineers in Munich end of Jan 2007. On the basis "A good engineer > is a lazy engineer", I'm asking before I write my own. > > I am _Not_ inviting a long thread, to rehash old well worn opinions > of PD src/ etc. It'd bore me silly to read, let alone respond ;-) > & be very inefficient & achieve nothing useful to me. I have decades > of experience as an engineer & with Unix/BSD & have a BSD group > here to back me up with ideas & criticism verbally & localy, faster, > more efficient than typing etc :-) > > What I don't have, but seek is a set of beamer slides I could > leverage from to save me time. (BTW I could equally leverage from > German or perhaps French slides if existant). I could also leverage > from a linux based slide set prob faster than starting from scratch, > or at least for inspiration. > > Anyone know of a similar presention pre-exisiting, Re. Unix that I > could leverage from (& give credit to) ? Of course if I have to > write my own, I'll make mine public on web for others to leverage > from). > > I'll probably use a beamer with /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint unless > advised better ? (I dont fancy open office bloat to show > .pps, & dont particularly want to learn how to prepare .pps slides, > (though I'll probably show a few .pss) from a different topic to show that > power point presentations are also showable under BSD. > > I've bcc'd this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ where > Ernst has volunteered to help me, & others welcome too, but prob. > best focus short discussion searching for URLs for now via list > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Then later, nearer date doubtless > some local mail to BIM's list. > > URLs to presentations welcome. Thanks > > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey. BSD Unix C Net Consultancy, Munich/Muenchen http://berklix.com > Mail Ascii, not HTML. Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz. > http://berklix.org/free-software > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ----------------------------------- | Jan Husar | Chairman | | http://www.skosi.org -------------------------- | freedomeurope.blogspot.com | GnuPG 1024D/DDB1C1AE | http://www.opensource.org From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 10:50:41 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441D816A416 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:50:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3971743CA6 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:50:38 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spam.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B32020A9; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:35 +0100 (CET) X-Spam-Tests: AWL X-Spam-Learn: disabled X-Spam-Score: 0.2/3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on tim.des.no Received: from dwp.des.no (des.no [80.203.243.180]) by tim.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEEA20A6; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 45DEEB85E; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:35 +0100 (CET) From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) To: mchauber@gmx.net References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:50:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> (Mike Hauber's message of "Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:42:37 -0500") Message-ID: <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:50:41 -0000 Mike Hauber writes: > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, Linux in > general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs contributions to Linux, > Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with MS and how this really affects > SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that and I literally don't know what to > believe at this point). Why should we care? The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994 settlement with USL. As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 12:09:13 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C84716A416 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.224]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340DB43CB7 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:08:19 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so384253wra for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:08:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=CwFWEBIANy7It8Rbs3hVLG7IfvOdYbJ1gQ3eYcPIZzp+Lr7VphhpP8lZAz6BVnix5SNsW1n972GotqticFDslOEOcpP1zL8/KBbe5Xh7VVAKrVeKE6xwH7YDPsgGMC2S6dPfiba63KRbAqoH6AGsRSWpKowi+0ISQKLMwQjqEhY= Received: by 10.90.88.13 with SMTP id l13mr579613agb.1164715689250; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:08:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:08:09 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: "=?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?=" In-Reply-To: <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 666f1c68a5f9a030 Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" , mchauber@gmx.net Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:09:13 -0000 T24gMTEvMjgvMDYsIERhZy1FcmxpbmcgU23DuHJncmF2IDxkZXNAZGVzLm5vPiB3cm90ZToKPiBN aWtlIEhhdWJlciA8bWNoYXViZXJAZ214Lm5ldD4gd3JpdGVzOgo+ID4gSSB3YXMganVzdCB3b25k ZXJpbmcgd2hhdCB0aGUgZ2VuZXJhbCBjb25zZW5zdXMgd2FzIG9uIHRoZSBHUEwsIExpbnV4IGlu Cj4gPiBnZW5lcmFsLCBTQ09zIGxhd3N1aXQsIFN1bidzIG9wZW4gc291cmNpbmcsIElCTXMgY29u dHJpYnV0aW9ucyB0byBMaW51eCwKPiA+IE5vdmVsbCdzIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbnMsIE5vdmVsbCdz IGRlYWwgd2l0aCBNUyBhbmQgaG93IHRoaXMgcmVhbGx5IGFmZmVjdHMKPiA+IFN1U2UgKHRoZXJl J3MgYSBsb3Qgb2YgaHlwZSBvbiB0aGF0IGFuZCBJIGxpdGVyYWxseSBkb24ndCBrbm93IHdoYXQg dG8KPiA+IGJlbGlldmUgYXQgdGhpcyBwb2ludCkuCj4KPiBXaHkgc2hvdWxkIHdlIGNhcmU/Cj4K PiBUaGUgU0NPIGxhd3N1aXRzIGFyZSBkb3VibHkgaXJyZWxldmFudDogZmlyc3RseSBiZWNhdXNl IFNDTyBpcyBub3QKPiBnb2luZyB0byB3aW4sIHNlY29uZGx5IGJlY2F1c2UgQlNEIGlzIGltbXVu ZSBieSB2aXJ0dWUgb2YgdGhlIDE5OTQKPiBzZXR0bGVtZW50IHdpdGggVVNMLgo+Cj4gQXMgZm9y IHRoZSBOb3ZlbGwtTVMgZGVhbCwgSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgaG93IGl0IGFmZmVjdHMgQlNEIGF0IGFs bC4KCllvdSBhcmUgcmlnaHQsIHRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIGRpcmVjdCBhZmZlY3Qgb24gQlNEIGhvd2V2 ZXIgc29mdHdhcmUKcGF0ZW50cyBpcyBpbiBpc3N1ZSBubyBtYXR0ZXIgaWYgaXQncyBHUEwgb3Ig QlNEIG1vc3RseSBpbiBVbml0ZWQKU3RhdGVzLCBpbiBFVSB3ZSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgZmlnaHRpbmcg dGhlIHBhdGVudCBwcm9ibGVtYXRpY3MuCgpUb2RheSBpcyB2b3RpbmcgaW4gSVRSRSAoSW5mb3Jt YXRpb24sIFRlY2hub2xvZ3ksIFJlc2VhcmNoIGFuZCBFbmVyZ3kpCmNvbW1pdHRlZSB3aXRoaW4g RXVyb3BlYW4gUGFybGlhbWVudCBhYm91dCBJUFJFRCAoSW50ZWxlY3R1YWwgUHJvcGVydHkKUmln aHRzIEVuZm9yY21lbnQgRGlyZWN0aXZlKSB3aGljaCBiYXNpY2x5IG1lYW5zLCBjcmltaW5hbGl6 YXRpb24gb2YKYWJ1c2luZyBvZiBwYXRlbnRzLCB0cmFkZW1hcmtzIGFuZCBjb3B5cmlnaHQgKGUu Zy4gc2VudGVjZSB0byBqYWlsLApmcmVlemUgb2YgYWNjb3VudHMgYW5kIHNvIG9uKQoKCi0tIAog LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KfCAgICAgIEphbiBIdXNhcgp8ICAg ICAgQ2hhaXJtYW4KfAp8ICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5za29zaS5vcmcKIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tCnwgZnJlZWRvbWV1cm9wZS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20KfCBHbnVQRyAxMDI0RC9EREIx QzFBRQp8IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cub3BlbnNvdXJjZS5vcmcK From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 19:14:07 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F26416A417 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FE0143CA7 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:14:01 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 28 Nov 2006 19:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO [192.168.1.100]) [204.116.241.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp001) with SMTP; 28 Nov 2006 20:13:59 +0100 X-Authenticated: #15034054 From: Mike Hauber To: jan.husar@skosi.org, "FreeBSD, Advocacy" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:15:16 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> X-Copyright-Notice: 2006 Michael C. Hauber X-Copyright-Info: This transmission, including any data found herein is copyrighted material and may not be copied, forwarded, or repeated by any means without written consent from the copyright owner. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mchauber@gmx.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:14:07 -0000 On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed: > On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > > Mike Hauber writes: > > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, Linux > > > in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs contributions to > > > Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with MS and how this > > > really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that and I literally > > > don't know what to believe at this point). > > > > Why should we care? > > > > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not > > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994 > > settlement with USL. I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is immun= e=20 by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being fraudulent), but tha= t=20 didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves. It's not Darl and company= =20 specifically that I'm worried about. It's other companies that can come=20 along and pull the same stunts. How long would it take before prospective= =20 customers get weary of the idea of open source as a whole if litigation=20 claims (fraudulent as they may be) continue? > > > > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all. > > You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software > patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United > States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics. > > Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy) > committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property > Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of > abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail, > freeze of accounts and so on) This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually succee= ded=20 with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs come along, I= =20 don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see patent issues becoming= a=20 real problem not just for the GPL side of things but the BSDs as well (my=20 stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because patents lately have been=20 blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the purpose of fraudulent=20 lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for patents in order to bring=20 litigation or to protect themselves from litigation via counter-suits, I=20 doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or BSDd code would be= =20 excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a preferred target just= =20 because it's open source, and we are by far the biggest threat that=20 proprietary companies have. I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's startin= g=20 out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much at all from t= he=20 BSD side of the aisle. What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their=20 contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would li= ke=20 to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then MSs very= =20 weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM working with th= e=20 BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that, and would be=20 interested to know more if they are). Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS, whet= her=20 it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned about whether o= r=20 not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in general. Appreciate your inputs. Thanks, Mike From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 20:23:00 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BA916A501 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:22:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.232]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9412343D68 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:21:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s18so1944789wxc for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:21:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=YfBbvASbs6VqaX7EiyPceOw7+o0jNSfsDNtZ41/a+mycftBpDIrTU+/ca8j+HJTTWd56uDMwLAxyeAIG4b/ePIWnLyd6mAqNEapJGyB58scvcAjQP7caizqrJEKWLlELjgUZbNuimZumadkvqGusrS8wSc58eu3PXFenq2Z3Y2A= Received: by 10.90.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr1413314aga.1164745268728; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:21:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:21:08 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: mchauber@gmx.net In-Reply-To: <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> X-Google-Sender-Auth: b1a01ac761406b0a Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:23:00 -0000 T24gMTEvMjgvMDYsIE1pa2UgSGF1YmVyIDxtY2hhdWJlckBnbXgubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPiBPbiBU dWVzZGF5IDI4IE5vdmVtYmVyIDIwMDYgMDc6MDgsIEphbiBIdXNhciBwcm9jbGFpbWVkOgo+ID4g T24gMTEvMjgvMDYsIERhZy1FcmxpbmcgU23DuHJncmF2IDxkZXNAZGVzLm5vPiB3cm90ZToKPiA+ ID4gTWlrZSBIYXViZXIgPG1jaGF1YmVyQGdteC5uZXQ+IHdyaXRlczoKPiA+ID4gPiBJIHdhcyBq dXN0IHdvbmRlcmluZyB3aGF0IHRoZSBnZW5lcmFsIGNvbnNlbnN1cyB3YXMgb24gdGhlIEdQTCwg TGludXgKPiA+ID4gPiBpbiBnZW5lcmFsLCBTQ09zIGxhd3N1aXQsIFN1bidzIG9wZW4gc291cmNp bmcsIElCTXMgY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucyB0bwo+ID4gPiA+IExpbnV4LCBOb3ZlbGwncyBjb250cmli dXRpb25zLCBOb3ZlbGwncyBkZWFsIHdpdGggTVMgYW5kIGhvdyB0aGlzCj4gPiA+ID4gcmVhbGx5 IGFmZmVjdHMgU3VTZSAodGhlcmUncyBhIGxvdCBvZiBoeXBlIG9uIHRoYXQgYW5kIEkgbGl0ZXJh bGx5Cj4gPiA+ID4gZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB3aGF0IHRvIGJlbGlldmUgYXQgdGhpcyBwb2ludCkuCj4g PiA+Cj4gPiA+IFdoeSBzaG91bGQgd2UgY2FyZT8KPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gVGhlIFNDTyBsYXdzdWl0 cyBhcmUgZG91Ymx5IGlycmVsZXZhbnQ6IGZpcnN0bHkgYmVjYXVzZSBTQ08gaXMgbm90Cj4gPiA+ IGdvaW5nIHRvIHdpbiwgc2Vjb25kbHkgYmVjYXVzZSBCU0QgaXMgaW1tdW5lIGJ5IHZpcnR1ZSBv ZiB0aGUgMTk5NAo+ID4gPiBzZXR0bGVtZW50IHdpdGggVVNMLgo+Cj4gSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0 aGUgVVNMIHNldHRsZW1lbnQgbWF0dGVycyB0byBTQ08uICBBZnRlciBhbGwsIExpbnV4IGlzIGlt bXVuZQo+IGJ5IHZpcnR1ZSBvZiB0aGUgR1BMIChpbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byBTQ09zIGNsYWltcyBi ZWluZyBmcmF1ZHVsZW50KSwgYnV0IHRoYXQKPiBkaWRuJ3Qgc3RvcCBTQ08gZnJvbSBtYWtpbmcg Zm9vbHMgb2YgdGhlbXNlbHZlcy4gIEl0J3Mgbm90IERhcmwgYW5kIGNvbXBhbnkKPiBzcGVjaWZp Y2FsbHkgdGhhdCBJJ20gd29ycmllZCBhYm91dC4gIEl0J3Mgb3RoZXIgY29tcGFuaWVzIHRoYXQg Y2FuIGNvbWUKPiBhbG9uZyBhbmQgcHVsbCB0aGUgc2FtZSBzdHVudHMuICBIb3cgbG9uZyB3b3Vs ZCBpdCB0YWtlIGJlZm9yZSBwcm9zcGVjdGl2ZQo+IGN1c3RvbWVycyBnZXQgd2Vhcnkgb2YgdGhl IGlkZWEgb2Ygb3BlbiBzb3VyY2UgYXMgYSB3aG9sZSBpZiBsaXRpZ2F0aW9uCj4gY2xhaW1zIChm cmF1ZHVsZW50IGFzIHRoZXkgbWF5IGJlKSBjb250aW51ZT8KCldlbGwsIEdQTCB2MiBpc24ndCB0 aGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgYXMgaXQgd2FzIGJlZm9yZSwgd2hlbiB5b3UgY291bnRzCnNvZnR3YXJlIHBh dGVudHMuClRoYXQncyB3aHkgdGhlcmUgaXMgdGhpcyAiZXh0cmVtaWMiIHByb3Bvc2FsIGZvciBn cGwgdmVyc2lvbjMsIG9yCmJldHRlciBzYXkgc29tZSBwZW9wbGUgZm91bmQgaXQgZXh0cmVtaWMu IElmIHlvdSBsb29rIGF0IFVTIHRoZXJlIGlzCmxvdCBvZiBleHRyZW1pYyBzdHVmZiBnb2luZyBh cm91bmQsIGUuZy4KbmV3IGNvbXBhbmllcyAocGF0ZW50IHRyb2xscykgd2hpY2ggaGF2ZSBvbmx5 IHJlYXNvbiB0byBleGlzdCB0bwpjcmVhdGUgcGF0ZW50cyBhbmQgc3VlIGV2ZXJ5Ym9keS4KCj4K PiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gQXMgZm9yIHRoZSBOb3ZlbGwtTVMgZGVhbCwgSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgaG93IGl0 IGFmZmVjdHMgQlNEIGF0IGFsbC4KPiA+Cj4gPiBZb3UgYXJlIHJpZ2h0LCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBk aXJlY3QgYWZmZWN0IG9uIEJTRCBob3dldmVyIHNvZnR3YXJlCj4gPiBwYXRlbnRzIGlzIGluIGlz c3VlIG5vIG1hdHRlciBpZiBpdCdzIEdQTCBvciBCU0QgbW9zdGx5IGluIFVuaXRlZAo+ID4gU3Rh dGVzLCBpbiBFVSB3ZSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgZmlnaHRpbmcgdGhlIHBhdGVudCBwcm9ibGVtYXRpY3Mu Cj4gPgo+ID4gVG9kYXkgaXMgdm90aW5nIGluIElUUkUgKEluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBUZWNobm9sb2d5 LCBSZXNlYXJjaCBhbmQgRW5lcmd5KQo+ID4gY29tbWl0dGVlIHdpdGhpbiBFdXJvcGVhbiBQYXJs aWFtZW50IGFib3V0IElQUkVEIChJbnRlbGVjdHVhbCBQcm9wZXJ0eQo+ID4gUmlnaHRzIEVuZm9y Y21lbnQgRGlyZWN0aXZlKSB3aGljaCBiYXNpY2x5IG1lYW5zLCBjcmltaW5hbGl6YXRpb24gb2YK PiA+IGFidXNpbmcgb2YgcGF0ZW50cywgdHJhZGVtYXJrcyBhbmQgY29weXJpZ2h0IChlLmcuIHNl bnRlY2UgdG8gamFpbCwKPiA+IGZyZWV6ZSBvZiBhY2NvdW50cyBhbmQgc28gb24pCj4KPiBUaGlz IHdhcyBwcmV0dHkgbXVjaCBteSBjb25jZXJuIGFzIGZhciBhcyBPU1MgZ29lcy4gIElmIFNDTyBh Y3R1YWxseSBzdWNjZWVkZWQKPiB3aXRoIHRoZWlyIGNsYWltcyAod2hpY2ggSSBrbm93IHRoZXkg d29uJ3QpLCBvciBpZiBvdGhlciBTQ09zIGNvbWUgYWxvbmcsIEkKPiBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGUg b25seSB0YXJnZXQgd291bGQgYmUgdGhlIEdQTC4gIEkgc2VlIHBhdGVudCBpc3N1ZXMgYmVjb21p bmcgYQo+IHJlYWwgcHJvYmxlbSBub3QganVzdCBmb3IgdGhlIEdQTCBzaWRlIG9mIHRoaW5ncyBi dXQgdGhlIEJTRHMgYXMgd2VsbCAobXkKPiBzdGFuY2UsIG9mIGNvdXJzZSwgaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBz aG91bGRuJ3QgYmVjYXVzZSBwYXRlbnRzIGxhdGVseSBoYXZlIGJlZW4KPiBibGluZGx5IGF3YXJk ZWQgYW5kIHNlZW1pbmdseSByZXF1ZXN0ZWQgZm9yIHRoZSBwdXJwb3NlIG9mIGZyYXVkdWxlbnQK PiBsYXdzdWl0cykuICBJZiBjb21wYW5pZXMgYXJlIHNjcmFtYmxpbmcgZm9yIHBhdGVudHMgaW4g b3JkZXIgdG8gYnJpbmcKPiBsaXRpZ2F0aW9uIG9yIHRvIHByb3RlY3QgdGhlbXNlbHZlcyBmcm9t IGxpdGlnYXRpb24gdmlhIGNvdW50ZXItc3VpdHMsIEkKPiBkb3VidCB0aGF0IHdoZW4gdGhlIGZp bmdlcnMgc3RhcnQgcG9pbnRpbmcsIHRoZSBHUExkIG9yIEJTRGQgY29kZSB3b3VsZCBiZQo+IGV4 Y2x1ZGVkLi4uICBJbiBmYWN0LCBJIHRlbmQgdG8gdGhpbmsgdGhleSB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIHByZWZl cnJlZCB0YXJnZXQganVzdAo+IGJlY2F1c2UgaXQncyBvcGVuIHNvdXJjZSwgYW5kIHdlIGFyZSBi eSBmYXIgdGhlIGJpZ2dlc3QgdGhyZWF0IHRoYXQKPiBwcm9wcmlldGFyeSBjb21wYW5pZXMgaGF2 ZS4KPgoKUGF0ZW50cyBpcyBwcm9ibGVtIGZvciBwcm9waWV0YXJ5LCBub24tcHJvcGlldGFyeSwg ZnJlZXdhcmUgb3IKb3BlbnNvdXJjZSBlLmcuIGFsbCB0aGUgc29mdHdhcmUgb3V0IHRoZXJlLgoK PiBJIHNlZSB0aGlzIGJhc2ljYWxseSBhcyBhIHRocmVhdCB0byBldmVyeW9uZSwgbm90IGp1c3Qg dGhlIGZldyBpdCdzIHN0YXJ0aW5nCj4gb3V0IHdpdGguICBUaGF0J3Mgd2h5IEkgYXNrZWQsIGFu ZCBJIGhhZG4ndCByZWFsbHkgaGVhcmQgbXVjaCBhdCBhbGwgZnJvbSB0aGUKPiBCU0Qgc2lkZSBv ZiB0aGUgYWlzbGUuCj4KClllcywgdGhlIEJTRCBjb21tdW5pdHkgaXMga2luZGEgcXVpZXQgYWxz byBpbiBFdXJvcGUsIEkgZm91bmQgdGhhdApyZWFsbHkgbmVnYXRpdmUuCgo+IFdoYXQgaWYgU3Vu IHB1bGxzIGEgU0NPIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgSmF2YT8gIElmIElCTSBwdWxscyBhIFNDTyB3aXRoIHRo ZWlyCj4gY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucz8gIElmIE5vdmVsbCBwdWxscyBhIFNDTyB3aXRoIHRoZWlyIGNv bnRyaWJ1dGlvbnM/ICBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UKPiB0byB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZWlyIGludGVudGlv bnMgYXJlIGhvbmVzdCwgYnV0IGFmdGVyIFNDTywgYW5kIHRoZW4gTVNzIHZlcnkKPiB3ZWlyZCBk ZWFsIHdpdGggTm92ZWxsLCB3aG8ga25vd3M/ICAoYW5kIGJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIGlzIElCTSB3b3Jr aW5nIHdpdGggdGhlCj4gQlNEIGNvbW11bml0eSBhcyB3ZWxsPyAgSSBoYWRuJ3QgcmVhZCBhbnl0 aGluZyBvbiB0aGF0LCBhbmQgd291bGQgYmUKPiBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIHRvIGtub3cgbW9yZSBpZiB0 aGV5IGFyZSkuCj4KClRoaXMgaXMganVzdCBhIHNwZWN1bGF0aW9uIGFuZCByZWFsbHkgbGFtZSBv bmUgOy8KCj4gQWx0aG91Z2ggbXkgcHJlZmVyZW5jZSBpcyB0aGUgQlNEIGxpY2Vuc2UsIEknbSB2 ZXJ5IG11Y2ggYSBmYW4gb2YgT1NTLCB3aGV0aGVyCj4gaXQgYmUgbGljZW5zZWQgdW5kZXIgdGhl IEJTRCBvciBHUEwsIGFuZCBJJ20ganVzdCBjb25jZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQgd2hldGhlciBvcgo+IG5v dCB0aGlzIGNvdWxkIGVzY2FsYXRlIGludG8gYSB0cmVuZCBhZ2FpbnN0IE9TIGNvZGUgaW4gZ2Vu ZXJhbC4KPgo+IEFwcHJlY2lhdGUgeW91ciBpbnB1dHMuICBUaGFua3MsCj4KPiBNaWtlCj4KCkN1 cnJlbnQgc2l0dWF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBwYXRlbnRzIGluIEVVIG9yIGJldHRlciBzYXkgaW4gRXVy b3BlLgoKMjAwNSAtIEV1cm9wZWFuIFBhcmxpYW1lbnQgcmVqZWN0ZWQgY29tcHV0ZXIgaW1wZW1l bnRlZCBpbnZldGl0aW9ucwpkaXJlY3RpdmUgKHdoaWNoIG1lYW5zIGZvciA0IHllYXJzIHRoZSBz YW1lIG9yIHNpbWlsbGlhciBkaXJlY3RpdmUKY2FuJ3QgY29tZSB0byB2b3RlKQoyMDA2IC0gRXVy b3BlYW4gUGFybGlhbWVudCBhZG9wdGVkIGEgbmV3IGRpcmVjdGl2ZSBFUExBIChFdXJvcGVhbgpQ YXRlbnQgTGl0aWdhdGlvbiBBZ3JlZW1lbnQpLCB3aGljaCBiYXNpY2x5IG1lYW5zIEVQTyAoRXVy b3BlYW4gUGF0ZW50Ck9mZmljZSwgd2hpY2ggaXMgb3V0aXNkZSB0aGUgZGVtb2NyYXRpYyBjb250 cm9sIG9mIEVVKSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIKb3duIGNvdXJ0cyBhbmQganVkZ2VzIGZvciB0aGUg cGF0ZW50IHByb2JsZW1hdGljcyBhbmQgbm9ib2R5IGNhbid0CnRlbGwgdGhlbSB3aGF0IHRvIGRv LCBldmVuIGlmIHRoZSBFUCAoRXVyb3BlYW4gUGFybGlhbWVudCkgcmVqZWN0ZWQKQ0lJIChDb21w dXRlciBJbXBsZW1lbnRlZCBJbnZldGl0aW9ucykKMjAwNiAtIElQUkVEMiwgY3JpbWluYWxpemF0 aW9uIG9mIHBhdGVudCwgdHJhZGVtYXJrIGFuZCBjb3B5cmlnaHQgYWJ1c2UKMjAwNyAtIENvbW11 bml0eSBQYXRlbnQsIGJhY2tkb29yIGZvciBzb2Z0d2FyZSBwYXRlbnRzIGFuZCBvdGhlciBuYXN0 eQpzdHVmZiAoc3VjaCBhcyBkbmEsIG5hbm8sIGRydWcsIHJlc2VhcmNoIHBhdGVudHMgYW5kIHNv IG9uKQoKCkFzIHlvdSBjYW4gc2VlIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBsb3Qgb2YgcHJvYmxlbXMgYXJvdW5kIGFk b3B0aW5nIHBhdGVudAoicHJvdGVjdGlvbiIsIHJpZ2h0IG5vdyB0aGUgc2l0dWF0aW9uIGlzIGJh ZCwgYnV0IGNhbiBiZSB3b3JzZS4gRVBPIGlzCmdyYW50aW5nIHNvZnR3YXJlIHBhdGVudHMgZXZl biBpZiB0aGV5IGFyZW4ndCAgYXBsaWNhYmxlIGluIEV1cm9wZSwKYWZ0ZXIgRVBMQSB3aWxsIGNv bWUgdG8gaXQncyBmdW5jdGlvbiBvciBDb21tdW5pdHkgUGF0ZW50IGJhc2VkIG9uCkxvbmRvbi9N dW5pY2ggcGF0ZW50IGFncmVlbWVudCB3ZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgcmVhbGx5IHNpbWlsbGlhciBzaXR1 YXRpb24KbGlrZSB0aGUgVW5pdGVkIFN0YXRlcyBoYXZlIG5vdy4KCkhvd3MgdGhlIHBhdGVudCBw cm9ibGVtYXRpY3MgYW5kIGxhdyBpcyBpbiBVbml0ZWQgc3RhdGVzIEkgaGF2ZSBqdXN0CmNvbmNs dXNpb24gYW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGZyb20gbmV3cyBwYXBlci4gSXMgdGhlcmUgc29tZW9uZSBk ZWFsaW5nCndpdGggaXQgaW4gVVM/CgpKYW4KCgotLSAKIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCnwgICAgICBKYW4gSHVzYXIKfCAgICAgIENoYWlybWFuCnwKfCAgIGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuc2tvc2kub3JnCiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQp8IGZyZWVkb21ldXJv cGUuYmxvZ3Nwb3QuY29tCnwgR251UEcgMTAyNEQvRERCMUMxQUUKfCBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm9wZW5z b3VyY2Uub3JnCg== From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 21:04:22 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6FE16A4A0 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:04:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.229]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEB143E4B for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:00:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so514572wra for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:01:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=dGBt4ttIFUv8uYeMmwiAPiosK7hIvNKEnW0RFVTcFN0+P7yZllPBP2Kgh3Vu3EYS2+skhsDpertSHlp7GeIvkoCVQ/8XQL1uFlTie/tINURzwyVbao2pO8UTCvZZE5VNLbTKvahgi3fsbN9ZapU/npnF1QkU+llzy7GfOBFmmR8= Received: by 10.90.30.10 with SMTP id d10mr1383300agd.1164747661485; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:01:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:01:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611281301j2dde4dfeg6a9f79bc75d7930d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:01:01 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: mchauber@gmx.net In-Reply-To: <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: f5e8bf8253be10aa Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:04:23 -0000 I just found interesting reading about IPR in Europe from paid managingIP magazine in google cache, it will disappear in few days... http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:QlEzYhnQW0cJ:www.managingip.com/%3FPage%3D10%26PUBID%3D34%26ISS%3D22798%26SID%3D659853%26TYPE%3D3 Jan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 22:03:28 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0A816A403 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:03:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACA943CBC for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:03:05 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so528548wra for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:03:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=NJ/xfPf64BTeeLMWLmfDPlCI3jGDudYsSlxRbLLvdTR98bgzynNBM+rkqgvLJNdJRoKDacPWYAPQ/0/u8jnqNyPTooPg6eu8iRQZlSpG9w3YlgvsSQ71shPh8BhJr35CJbefXzRbvune5t5q/Nsc7919nN+Z36oOLCxiQzmPijo= Received: by 10.90.117.15 with SMTP id p15mr1506349agc.1164751389613; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:03:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611281403hb140b46u35d977d4c230d2ee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:03:09 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: mchauber@gmx.net In-Reply-To: <541b7a870611281301j2dde4dfeg6a9f79bc75d7930d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <86vekzj151.fsf@dwp.des.no> <541b7a870611280408m6d9d4c48oe8ee77c540716326@mail.gmail.com> <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> <541b7a870611281301j2dde4dfeg6a9f79bc75d7930d@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8ec512f181f0476a Cc: "FreeBSD, Advocacy" Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:03:28 -0000 Press release of ITRE voting on IPRED2 directive from today. http://freedomeurope.blogspot.com/2006/11/patents-out-business-conflicts-still.html Jan From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Nov 28 22:12:12 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE04C16A4A7 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:12:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 85D7643CA9 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:11:44 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mchauber@gmx.net) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 28 Nov 2006 22:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO [192.168.1.100]) [204.116.241.218] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 28 Nov 2006 23:11:46 +0100 X-Authenticated: #15034054 From: Mike Hauber To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, jan.husar@skosi.org Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:13:10 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <200611250942.38410.mchauber@gmx.net> <200611281415.17352.mchauber@gmx.net> <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <541b7a870611281221h3da42c90ld5d7198138cc9973@mail.gmail.com> X-Copyright-Notice: 2006 Michael C. Hauber X-Copyright-Info: This transmission, including any data found herein is copyrighted material and may not be copied, forwarded, or repeated by any means without written consent from the copyright owner. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611281713.11849.mchauber@gmx.net> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: mchauber@gmx.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:12:12 -0000 On Tuesday 28 November 2006 15:21, Jan Husar proclaimed: > On 11/28/06, Mike Hauber wrote: > > On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed: > > > On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav wrote: > > > > Mike Hauber writes: > > > > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, > > > > > Linux in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs > > > > > contributions to Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with > > > > > MS and how this really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that > > > > > and I literally don't know what to believe at this point). > > > > > > > > Why should we care? > > > > > > > > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not > > > > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994 > > > > settlement with USL. > > > > I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is > > immune by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being > > fraudulent), but that didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves.= =20 > > It's not Darl and company specifically that I'm worried about. It's > > other companies that can come along and pull the same stunts. How long > > would it take before prospective customers get weary of the idea of open > > source as a whole if litigation claims (fraudulent as they may be) > > continue? > > Well, GPL v2 isn't the security as it was before, when you counts > software patents. > That's why there is this "extremic" proposal for gpl version3, or > better say some people found it extremic. If you look at US there is > lot of extremic stuff going around, e.g. > new companies (patent trolls) which have only reason to exist to > create patents and sue everybody. > > > > > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all. > > > > > > You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software > > > patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United > > > States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics. > > > > > > Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy) > > > committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property > > > Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of > > > abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail, > > > freeze of accounts and so on) > > > > This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually > > succeeded with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs > > come along, I don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see pate= nt > > issues becoming a real problem not just for the GPL side of things but > > the BSDs as well (my stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because > > patents lately have been blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the > > purpose of fraudulent lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for paten= ts > > in order to bring litigation or to protect themselves from litigation v= ia > > counter-suits, I doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or > > BSDd code would be excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a > > preferred target just because it's open source, and we are by far the > > biggest threat that proprietary companies have. > > Patents is problem for propietary, non-propietary, freeware or > opensource e.g. all the software out there. > > > I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's > > starting out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much = at > > all from the BSD side of the aisle. > > Yes, the BSD community is kinda quiet also in Europe, I found that > really negative. > > > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their > > contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would > > like to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then > > MSs very weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM > > working with the BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that, > > and would be interested to know more if they are). > > This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/ > > > Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS, > > whether it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned abo= ut > > whether or not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in > > general. > > > > Appreciate your inputs. Thanks, > > > > Mike > > Current situation of the patents in EU or better say in Europe. > > 2005 - European Parliament rejected computer impemented invetitions > directive (which means for 4 years the same or similliar directive > can't come to vote) > 2006 - European Parliament adopted a new directive EPLA (European > Patent Litigation Agreement), which basicly means EPO (European Patent > Office, which is outisde the democratic control of EU) will have their > own courts and judges for the patent problematics and nobody can't > tell them what to do, even if the EP (European Parliament) rejected > CII (Computer Implemented Invetitions) > 2006 - IPRED2, criminalization of patent, trademark and copyright abuse > 2007 - Community Patent, backdoor for software patents and other nasty > stuff (such as dna, nano, drug, research patents and so on) > > > As you can see there are lot of problems around adopting patent > "protection", right now the situation is bad, but can be worse. EPO is > granting software patents even if they aren't aplicable in Europe, > after EPLA will come to it's function or Community Patent based on > London/Munich patent agreement we will have really similliar situation > like the United States have now. > > Hows the patent problematics and law is in United states I have just > conclusion and information from news paper. Is there someone dealing > with it in US? > > Jan Whoa. You seem to be far more legally inclined than I, so I'm not even goi= ng=20 to pretend to know anything specific as far as what actions are being taken= =20 by .gov here in the States. However, I do know that there are patents=20 popping up that the OSS communites are growing more and more concerned abou= t. =20 One example: (link may wrap): http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=3DPTO1&Sect2=3DHITOFF&d=3D= PALL&p=3D1&u=3D%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=3D1&f=3DG&l=3D50&s1=3D7,14= 0,028.PN.&OS=3DPN/7,140,028&RS=3DPN/7,140,028 I provide the link, but I couldn't tell you much about the language of the= =20 patent itself, except to reiterate whats already been said. This is a pate= nt=20 for compiling code to run on different operating systems... If that really= =20 is the case, then I don't think that it's just the GCC at risk. There should be laws about claiming things like this. There is nothing uni= que=20 about it, and most developers kits have something at least too similar for = MS=20 to say, "This is our idea, and we would like to protect it." If it's uniqu= e=20 to them, then fine. But if it's something that has been used by most=20 developers out there, it available to the public to use at will, it's metho= ds=20 are commonly known, then the patent in no way, shape, or form should be=20 issued. In fact, I believe that companies who do this should have to pay=20 fines for even attempting it. Mike From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 29 00:10:26 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE11116A407 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:10:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim1timau@yahoo.com) Received: from web50302.mail.yahoo.com (web50302.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.56]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B42043C9F for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:10:20 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tim1timau@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 78724 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Nov 2006 00:10:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=sp4D5gIFkcUv1VMdj5A8ywnyBPkMMTtqpc5ucz+DK/TWTB+M/UxpL7m73PAeVlKkC+xcUZ1VKIwp75MDfN5NleCh/i1uA9B2JpfWzcnXCeajYbVXNEjBkO6IU7Dxem8D5ZZRmKUkCmph/U9UhJsLEGrLN9QmQPapKv8l9y9DdjQ=; X-YMail-OSG: YsqU7Q4VM1kykOMT1XKKpswNrjYIIuy1O_JmWDtychDGEIx4e5dmvcAL8N5pLgvMwH8.Z9LsKRQUGeI6ntOpqMI0crraETiP9a6OrA3SGTs_mg14zQD5aQFBgRlQ25_LGVt8wVAC4_bY1cBwPmyG7hpuGXo8k8DE9Q-- Received: from [210.0.100.149] by web50302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:10:25 PST Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 16:10:25 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Clewlow To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, jan.husar@skosi.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <197873.77889.qm@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> Cc: Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:10:27 -0000 --- Mike Hauber wrote: > From: Mike Hauber > To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, > jan.husar@skosi.org > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:13:10 -0500 > CC: > Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... > > On Tuesday 28 November 2006 15:21, Jan Husar proclaimed: > > On 11/28/06, Mike Hauber wrote: > > > On Tuesday 28 November 2006 07:08, Jan Husar proclaimed: > > > > On 11/28/06, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: > > > > > Mike Hauber writes: > > > > > > I was just wondering what the general consensus was on the GPL, > > > > > > Linux in general, SCOs lawsuit, Sun's open sourcing, IBMs > > > > > > contributions to Linux, Novell's contributions, Novell's deal with > > > > > > MS and how this really affects SuSe (there's a lot of hype on that > > > > > > and I literally don't know what to believe at this point). > > > > > > > > > > Why should we care? > > > > > > > > > > The SCO lawsuits are doubly irrelevant: firstly because SCO is not > > > > > going to win, secondly because BSD is immune by virtue of the 1994 > > > > > settlement with USL. > > > > > > I don't think the USL settlement matters to SCO. After all, Linux is > > > immune by virtue of the GPL (in addition to SCOs claims being > > > fraudulent), but that didn't stop SCO from making fools of themselves. > > > It's not Darl and company specifically that I'm worried about. It's > > > other companies that can come along and pull the same stunts. How long > > > would it take before prospective customers get weary of the idea of open > > > source as a whole if litigation claims (fraudulent as they may be) > > > continue? > > > > Well, GPL v2 isn't the security as it was before, when you counts > > software patents. > > That's why there is this "extremic" proposal for gpl version3, or > > better say some people found it extremic. If you look at US there is > > lot of extremic stuff going around, e.g. > > new companies (patent trolls) which have only reason to exist to > > create patents and sue everybody. > > > > > > > As for the Novell-MS deal, I don't see how it affects BSD at all. > > > > > > > > You are right, there is no direct affect on BSD however software > > > > patents is in issue no matter if it's GPL or BSD mostly in United > > > > States, in EU we are still fighting the patent problematics. > > > > > > > > Today is voting in ITRE (Information, Technology, Research and Energy) > > > > committee within European Parliament about IPRED (Intelectual Property > > > > Rights Enforcment Directive) which basicly means, criminalization of > > > > abusing of patents, trademarks and copyright (e.g. sentece to jail, > > > > freeze of accounts and so on) > > > > > > This was pretty much my concern as far as OSS goes. If SCO actually > > > succeeded with their claims (which I know they won't), or if other SCOs > > > come along, I don't think the only target would be the GPL. I see patent > > > issues becoming a real problem not just for the GPL side of things but > > > the BSDs as well (my stance, of course, is that it shouldn't because > > > patents lately have been blindly awarded and seemingly requested for the > > > purpose of fraudulent lawsuits). If companies are scrambling for patents > > > in order to bring litigation or to protect themselves from litigation via > > > counter-suits, I doubt that when the fingers start pointing, the GPLd or > > > BSDd code would be excluded... In fact, I tend to think they would be a > > > preferred target just because it's open source, and we are by far the > > > biggest threat that proprietary companies have. > > > > Patents is problem for propietary, non-propietary, freeware or > > opensource e.g. all the software out there. > > > > > I see this basically as a threat to everyone, not just the few it's > > > starting out with. That's why I asked, and I hadn't really heard much at > > > all from the BSD side of the aisle. > > > > Yes, the BSD community is kinda quiet also in Europe, I found that > > really negative. > > > > > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with their > > > contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their contributions? I would > > > like to think that their intentions are honest, but after SCO, and then > > > MSs very weird deal with Novell, who knows? (and by the way, is IBM > > > working with the BSD community as well? I hadn't read anything on that, > > > and would be interested to know more if they are). > > > > This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/ > > > > > Although my preference is the BSD license, I'm very much a fan of OSS, > > > whether it be licensed under the BSD or GPL, and I'm just concerned about > > > whether or not this could escalate into a trend against OS code in > > > general. > > > > > > Appreciate your inputs. Thanks, > > > > > > Mike > > > > Current situation of the patents in EU or better say in Europe. > > > > 2005 - European Parliament rejected computer impemented invetitions > > directive (which means for 4 years the same or similliar directive > > can't come to vote) > > 2006 - European Parliament adopted a new directive EPLA (European > > Patent Litigation Agreement), which basicly means EPO (European Patent > > Office, which is outisde the democratic control of EU) will have their > > own courts and judges for the patent problematics and nobody can't > > tell them what to do, even if the EP (European Parliament) rejected > > CII (Computer Implemented Invetitions) > > 2006 - IPRED2, criminalization of patent, trademark and copyright abuse > > 2007 - Community Patent, backdoor for software patents and other nasty > > stuff (such as dna, nano, drug, research patents and so on) > > > > > > As you can see there are lot of problems around adopting patent > > "protection", right now the situation is bad, but can be worse. EPO is > > granting software patents even if they aren't aplicable in Europe, > > after EPLA will come to it's function or Community Patent based on > > London/Munich patent agreement we will have really similliar situation > > like the United States have now. > > > > Hows the patent problematics and law is in United states I have just > > conclusion and information from news paper. Is there someone dealing > > with it in US? > > > > Jan > > Whoa. You seem to be far more legally inclined than I, so I'm not even going > > to pretend to know anything specific as far as what actions are being taken > by .gov here in the States. However, I do know that there are patents > popping up that the OSS communites are growing more and more concerned about. > > One example: (link may wrap): > > http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,140,028.PN.&OS=PN/7,140,028&RS=PN/7,140,028 > > I provide the link, but I couldn't tell you much about the language of the > patent itself, except to reiterate whats already been said. This is a patent > > for compiling code to run on different operating systems... If that really > is the case, then I don't think that it's just the GCC at risk. > > There should be laws about claiming things like this. There is nothing > unique > about it, and most developers kits have something at least too similar for MS > > to say, "This is our idea, and we would like to protect it." If it's unique > to them, then fine. But if it's something that has been used by most > developers out there, it available to the public to use at will, it's methods > > are commonly known, then the patent in no way, shape, or form should be > issued. In fact, I believe that companies who do this should have to pay > fines for even attempting it. > > Mike Microsoft appear to be claiming that the idea of using one type of computer to build an operating system for a different type of computer is their idea. Unfortunately (for Microsoft) this practice has been known in the "public domain" for decades. This claim would be laughable if it wasnt serious - instead it is just pathetic. Tim. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 29 01:21:59 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA3D16A412 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.231]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A332D43CA5 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:21:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from rejden@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i28so557206wra for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:21:57 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=GPloCnq9fuLstvyDskRQpwQDMFD/y3csgAG+dgRWHbDT3UPV1xfVERaOg00lDhSnWQZdby0tR3fPv3vv5VfDpZlOVbA8kfi0oQdlFwOpWlMvAR6yludtrFqKGfpTWFMSs5gCJLrO7mqBcCneuk4ItbVS+PosSRRUNfIvY0V8Aic= Received: by 10.90.118.12 with SMTP id q12mr1720853agc.1164763317459; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.88.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:21:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <541b7a870611281721o13fdb271q2797e419c75d9b0b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:21:57 +0100 From: "Jan Husar" Sender: rejden@gmail.com To: "Tim Clewlow" In-Reply-To: <197873.77889.qm@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <197873.77889.qm@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2dd750d6fa876dba Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: jan.husar@skosi.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:21:59 -0000 WW91IGhpdGVkIHRoZSB0YXJnZXQsIGJ1dCBhcyB5b3UgcHJvbGx5IGtub3cgYWxzbyBkb3VibGUt Y2xpY2sgaXMgcGF0ZW50YWJsZS4uLi4KCjsoCgpKYW4KCk9uIDExLzI5LzA2LCBUaW0gQ2xld2xv dyA8dGltMXRpbWF1QHlhaG9vLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4KPiAtLS0gTWlrZSBIYXViZXIgPG1jaGF1 YmVyQGdteC5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gPiBGcm9tOiBNaWtlIEhhdWJlciA8bWNoYXViZXJAZ214 Lm5ldD4KPiA+IFRvOiBmcmVlYnNkLWFkdm9jYWN5QGZyZWVic2Qub3JnLAo+ID4gIGphbi5odXNh ckBza29zaS5vcmcKPiA+IERhdGU6IFR1ZSwgMjggTm92IDIwMDYgMTc6MTM6MTAgLTA1MDAKPiA+ IENDOgo+ID4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IEJTRCBmb2xrcyBwb3NpdGlvbiBvbiBHUEwsIE5vdmVsbCwg SUJNLCBTQ08sIGFuZCBNUy4uLgo+ID4KPiA+IE9uIFR1ZXNkYXkgMjggTm92ZW1iZXIgMjAwNiAx NToyMSwgSmFuIEh1c2FyIHByb2NsYWltZWQ6Cj4gPiA+IE9uIDExLzI4LzA2LCBNaWtlIEhhdWJl ciA8bWNoYXViZXJAZ214Lm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiA+ID4gT24gVHVlc2RheSAyOCBOb3ZlbWJl ciAyMDA2IDA3OjA4LCBKYW4gSHVzYXIgcHJvY2xhaW1lZDoKPiA+ID4gPiA+IE9uIDExLzI4LzA2 LCBEYWctRXJsaW5nIFNtw7hyZ3JhdiA8ZGVzQGRlcy5ubz4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+IE1p a2UgSGF1YmVyIDxtY2hhdWJlckBnbXgubmV0PiB3cml0ZXM6Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gSSB3YXMg anVzdCB3b25kZXJpbmcgd2hhdCB0aGUgZ2VuZXJhbCBjb25zZW5zdXMgd2FzIG9uIHRoZSBHUEws Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gTGludXggaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCwgU0NPcyBsYXdzdWl0LCBTdW4ncyBvcGVu IHNvdXJjaW5nLCBJQk1zCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucyB0byBMaW51eCwgTm92 ZWxsJ3MgY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucywgTm92ZWxsJ3MgZGVhbCB3aXRoCj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gTVMg YW5kIGhvdyB0aGlzIHJlYWxseSBhZmZlY3RzIFN1U2UgKHRoZXJlJ3MgYSBsb3Qgb2YgaHlwZSBv biB0aGF0Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gYW5kIEkgbGl0ZXJhbGx5IGRvbid0IGtub3cgd2hhdCB0byBi ZWxpZXZlIGF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQpLgo+ID4gPiA+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBXaHkgc2hvdWxk IHdlIGNhcmU/Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+ID4gPiA+IFRoZSBTQ08gbGF3c3VpdHMgYXJlIGRv dWJseSBpcnJlbGV2YW50OiBmaXJzdGx5IGJlY2F1c2UgU0NPIGlzIG5vdAo+ID4gPiA+ID4gPiBn b2luZyB0byB3aW4sIHNlY29uZGx5IGJlY2F1c2UgQlNEIGlzIGltbXVuZSBieSB2aXJ0dWUgb2Yg dGhlIDE5OTQKPiA+ID4gPiA+ID4gc2V0dGxlbWVudCB3aXRoIFVTTC4KPiA+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiA+ IEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlIFVTTCBzZXR0bGVtZW50IG1hdHRlcnMgdG8gU0NPLiAgQWZ0ZXIg YWxsLCBMaW51eCBpcwo+ID4gPiA+IGltbXVuZSBieSB2aXJ0dWUgb2YgdGhlIEdQTCAoaW4gYWRk aXRpb24gdG8gU0NPcyBjbGFpbXMgYmVpbmcKPiA+ID4gPiBmcmF1ZHVsZW50KSwgYnV0IHRoYXQg ZGlkbid0IHN0b3AgU0NPIGZyb20gbWFraW5nIGZvb2xzIG9mIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMuCj4gPiA+ID4g SXQncyBub3QgRGFybCBhbmQgY29tcGFueSBzcGVjaWZpY2FsbHkgdGhhdCBJJ20gd29ycmllZCBh Ym91dC4gIEl0J3MKPiA+ID4gPiBvdGhlciBjb21wYW5pZXMgdGhhdCBjYW4gY29tZSBhbG9uZyBh bmQgcHVsbCB0aGUgc2FtZSBzdHVudHMuICBIb3cgbG9uZwo+ID4gPiA+IHdvdWxkIGl0IHRha2Ug YmVmb3JlIHByb3NwZWN0aXZlIGN1c3RvbWVycyBnZXQgd2Vhcnkgb2YgdGhlIGlkZWEgb2Ygb3Bl bgo+ID4gPiA+IHNvdXJjZSBhcyBhIHdob2xlIGlmIGxpdGlnYXRpb24gY2xhaW1zIChmcmF1ZHVs ZW50IGFzIHRoZXkgbWF5IGJlKQo+ID4gPiA+IGNvbnRpbnVlPwo+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiBXZWxsLCBH UEwgdjIgaXNuJ3QgdGhlIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFzIGl0IHdhcyBiZWZvcmUsIHdoZW4geW91IGNvdW50 cwo+ID4gPiBzb2Z0d2FyZSBwYXRlbnRzLgo+ID4gPiBUaGF0J3Mgd2h5IHRoZXJlIGlzIHRoaXMg ImV4dHJlbWljIiBwcm9wb3NhbCBmb3IgZ3BsIHZlcnNpb24zLCBvcgo+ID4gPiBiZXR0ZXIgc2F5 IHNvbWUgcGVvcGxlIGZvdW5kIGl0IGV4dHJlbWljLiBJZiB5b3UgbG9vayBhdCBVUyB0aGVyZSBp cwo+ID4gPiBsb3Qgb2YgZXh0cmVtaWMgc3R1ZmYgZ29pbmcgYXJvdW5kLCBlLmcuCj4gPiA+IG5l dyBjb21wYW5pZXMgKHBhdGVudCB0cm9sbHMpIHdoaWNoIGhhdmUgb25seSByZWFzb24gdG8gZXhp c3QgdG8KPiA+ID4gY3JlYXRlIHBhdGVudHMgYW5kIHN1ZSBldmVyeWJvZHkuCj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+ ID4gPiA+IEFzIGZvciB0aGUgTm92ZWxsLU1TIGRlYWwsIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGhvdyBpdCBhZmZl Y3RzIEJTRCBhdCBhbGwuCj4gPiA+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiA+ID4gWW91IGFyZSByaWdodCwgdGhlcmUg aXMgbm8gZGlyZWN0IGFmZmVjdCBvbiBCU0QgaG93ZXZlciBzb2Z0d2FyZQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gcGF0 ZW50cyBpcyBpbiBpc3N1ZSBubyBtYXR0ZXIgaWYgaXQncyBHUEwgb3IgQlNEIG1vc3RseSBpbiBV bml0ZWQKPiA+ID4gPiA+IFN0YXRlcywgaW4gRVUgd2UgYXJlIHN0aWxsIGZpZ2h0aW5nIHRoZSBw YXRlbnQgcHJvYmxlbWF0aWNzLgo+ID4gPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gPiA+IFRvZGF5IGlzIHZvdGluZyBp biBJVFJFIChJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgVGVjaG5vbG9neSwgUmVzZWFyY2ggYW5kIEVuZXJneSkKPiA+ ID4gPiA+IGNvbW1pdHRlZSB3aXRoaW4gRXVyb3BlYW4gUGFybGlhbWVudCBhYm91dCBJUFJFRCAo SW50ZWxlY3R1YWwgUHJvcGVydHkKPiA+ID4gPiA+IFJpZ2h0cyBFbmZvcmNtZW50IERpcmVjdGl2 ZSkgd2hpY2ggYmFzaWNseSBtZWFucywgY3JpbWluYWxpemF0aW9uIG9mCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBhYnVz aW5nIG9mIHBhdGVudHMsIHRyYWRlbWFya3MgYW5kIGNvcHlyaWdodCAoZS5nLiBzZW50ZWNlIHRv IGphaWwsCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBmcmVlemUgb2YgYWNjb3VudHMgYW5kIHNvIG9uKQo+ID4gPiA+Cj4g PiA+ID4gVGhpcyB3YXMgcHJldHR5IG11Y2ggbXkgY29uY2VybiBhcyBmYXIgYXMgT1NTIGdvZXMu ICBJZiBTQ08gYWN0dWFsbHkKPiA+ID4gPiBzdWNjZWVkZWQgd2l0aCB0aGVpciBjbGFpbXMgKHdo aWNoIEkga25vdyB0aGV5IHdvbid0KSwgb3IgaWYgb3RoZXIgU0NPcwo+ID4gPiA+IGNvbWUgYWxv bmcsIEkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlIG9ubHkgdGFyZ2V0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHRoZSBHUEwuICBJIHNl ZSBwYXRlbnQKPiA+ID4gPiBpc3N1ZXMgYmVjb21pbmcgYSByZWFsIHByb2JsZW0gbm90IGp1c3Qg Zm9yIHRoZSBHUEwgc2lkZSBvZiB0aGluZ3MgYnV0Cj4gPiA+ID4gdGhlIEJTRHMgYXMgd2VsbCAo bXkgc3RhbmNlLCBvZiBjb3Vyc2UsIGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgc2hvdWxkbid0IGJlY2F1c2UKPiA+ID4g PiBwYXRlbnRzIGxhdGVseSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gYmxpbmRseSBhd2FyZGVkIGFuZCBzZWVtaW5nbHkg cmVxdWVzdGVkIGZvciB0aGUKPiA+ID4gPiBwdXJwb3NlIG9mIGZyYXVkdWxlbnQgbGF3c3VpdHMp LiAgSWYgY29tcGFuaWVzIGFyZSBzY3JhbWJsaW5nIGZvciBwYXRlbnRzCj4gPiA+ID4gaW4gb3Jk ZXIgdG8gYnJpbmcgbGl0aWdhdGlvbiBvciB0byBwcm90ZWN0IHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMgZnJvbSBsaXRp Z2F0aW9uIHZpYQo+ID4gPiA+IGNvdW50ZXItc3VpdHMsIEkgZG91YnQgdGhhdCB3aGVuIHRoZSBm aW5nZXJzIHN0YXJ0IHBvaW50aW5nLCB0aGUgR1BMZCBvcgo+ID4gPiA+IEJTRGQgY29kZSB3b3Vs ZCBiZSBleGNsdWRlZC4uLiAgSW4gZmFjdCwgSSB0ZW5kIHRvIHRoaW5rIHRoZXkgd291bGQgYmUg YQo+ID4gPiA+IHByZWZlcnJlZCB0YXJnZXQganVzdCBiZWNhdXNlIGl0J3Mgb3BlbiBzb3VyY2Us IGFuZCB3ZSBhcmUgYnkgZmFyIHRoZQo+ID4gPiA+IGJpZ2dlc3QgdGhyZWF0IHRoYXQgcHJvcHJp ZXRhcnkgY29tcGFuaWVzIGhhdmUuCj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+IFBhdGVudHMgaXMgcHJvYmxlbSBmb3Ig cHJvcGlldGFyeSwgbm9uLXByb3BpZXRhcnksIGZyZWV3YXJlIG9yCj4gPiA+IG9wZW5zb3VyY2Ug ZS5nLiBhbGwgdGhlIHNvZnR3YXJlIG91dCB0aGVyZS4KPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gPiBJIHNlZSB0aGlz IGJhc2ljYWxseSBhcyBhIHRocmVhdCB0byBldmVyeW9uZSwgbm90IGp1c3QgdGhlIGZldyBpdCdz Cj4gPiA+ID4gc3RhcnRpbmcgb3V0IHdpdGguICBUaGF0J3Mgd2h5IEkgYXNrZWQsIGFuZCBJIGhh ZG4ndCByZWFsbHkgaGVhcmQgbXVjaCBhdAo+ID4gPiA+IGFsbCBmcm9tIHRoZSBCU0Qgc2lkZSBv ZiB0aGUgYWlzbGUuCj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+IFllcywgdGhlIEJTRCBjb21tdW5pdHkgaXMga2luZGEg cXVpZXQgYWxzbyBpbiBFdXJvcGUsIEkgZm91bmQgdGhhdAo+ID4gPiByZWFsbHkgbmVnYXRpdmUu Cj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+ID4gV2hhdCBpZiBTdW4gcHVsbHMgYSBTQ08gd2l0aCB0aGVpciBKYXZhPyAg SWYgSUJNIHB1bGxzIGEgU0NPIHdpdGggdGhlaXIKPiA+ID4gPiBjb250cmlidXRpb25zPyAgSWYg Tm92ZWxsIHB1bGxzIGEgU0NPIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucz8gIEkgd291bGQKPiA+ ID4gPiBsaWtlIHRvIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlaXIgaW50ZW50aW9ucyBhcmUgaG9uZXN0LCBidXQg YWZ0ZXIgU0NPLCBhbmQgdGhlbgo+ID4gPiA+IE1TcyB2ZXJ5IHdlaXJkIGRlYWwgd2l0aCBOb3Zl bGwsIHdobyBrbm93cz8gIChhbmQgYnkgdGhlIHdheSwgaXMgSUJNCj4gPiA+ID4gd29ya2luZyB3 aXRoIHRoZSBCU0QgY29tbXVuaXR5IGFzIHdlbGw/ICBJIGhhZG4ndCByZWFkIGFueXRoaW5nIG9u IHRoYXQsCj4gPiA+ID4gYW5kIHdvdWxkIGJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgdG8ga25vdyBtb3JlIGlmIHRo ZXkgYXJlKS4KPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gVGhpcyBpcyBqdXN0IGEgc3BlY3VsYXRpb24gYW5kIHJlYWxs eSBsYW1lIG9uZSA7Lwo+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiA+IEFsdGhvdWdoIG15IHByZWZlcmVuY2UgaXMgdGhl IEJTRCBsaWNlbnNlLCBJJ20gdmVyeSBtdWNoIGEgZmFuIG9mIE9TUywKPiA+ID4gPiB3aGV0aGVy IGl0IGJlIGxpY2Vuc2VkIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBCU0Qgb3IgR1BMLCBhbmQgSSdtIGp1c3QgY29uY2Vy bmVkIGFib3V0Cj4gPiA+ID4gd2hldGhlciBvciBub3QgdGhpcyBjb3VsZCBlc2NhbGF0ZSBpbnRv IGEgdHJlbmQgYWdhaW5zdCBPUyBjb2RlIGluCj4gPiA+ID4gZ2VuZXJhbC4KPiA+ID4gPgo+ID4g PiA+IEFwcHJlY2lhdGUgeW91ciBpbnB1dHMuICBUaGFua3MsCj4gPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gPiBNaWtl Cj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+IEN1cnJlbnQgc2l0dWF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBwYXRlbnRzIGluIEVVIG9yIGJl dHRlciBzYXkgaW4gRXVyb3BlLgo+ID4gPgo+ID4gPiAyMDA1IC0gRXVyb3BlYW4gUGFybGlhbWVu dCByZWplY3RlZCBjb21wdXRlciBpbXBlbWVudGVkIGludmV0aXRpb25zCj4gPiA+IGRpcmVjdGl2 ZSAod2hpY2ggbWVhbnMgZm9yIDQgeWVhcnMgdGhlIHNhbWUgb3Igc2ltaWxsaWFyIGRpcmVjdGl2 ZQo+ID4gPiBjYW4ndCBjb21lIHRvIHZvdGUpCj4gPiA+IDIwMDYgLSBFdXJvcGVhbiBQYXJsaWFt ZW50IGFkb3B0ZWQgYSBuZXcgZGlyZWN0aXZlIEVQTEEgKEV1cm9wZWFuCj4gPiA+IFBhdGVudCBM aXRpZ2F0aW9uIEFncmVlbWVudCksIHdoaWNoIGJhc2ljbHkgbWVhbnMgRVBPIChFdXJvcGVhbiBQ YXRlbnQKPiA+ID4gT2ZmaWNlLCB3aGljaCBpcyBvdXRpc2RlIHRoZSBkZW1vY3JhdGljIGNvbnRy b2wgb2YgRVUpIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSB0aGVpcgo+ID4gPiBvd24gY291cnRzIGFuZCBqdWRnZXMgZm9y IHRoZSBwYXRlbnQgcHJvYmxlbWF0aWNzIGFuZCBub2JvZHkgY2FuJ3QKPiA+ID4gdGVsbCB0aGVt IHdoYXQgdG8gZG8sIGV2ZW4gaWYgdGhlIEVQIChFdXJvcGVhbiBQYXJsaWFtZW50KSByZWplY3Rl ZAo+ID4gPiBDSUkgKENvbXB1dGVyIEltcGxlbWVudGVkIEludmV0aXRpb25zKQo+ID4gPiAyMDA2 IC0gSVBSRUQyLCBjcmltaW5hbGl6YXRpb24gb2YgcGF0ZW50LCB0cmFkZW1hcmsgYW5kIGNvcHly aWdodCBhYnVzZQo+ID4gPiAyMDA3IC0gQ29tbXVuaXR5IFBhdGVudCwgYmFja2Rvb3IgZm9yIHNv ZnR3YXJlIHBhdGVudHMgYW5kIG90aGVyIG5hc3R5Cj4gPiA+IHN0dWZmIChzdWNoIGFzIGRuYSwg bmFubywgZHJ1ZywgcmVzZWFyY2ggcGF0ZW50cyBhbmQgc28gb24pCj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+ IEFzIHlvdSBjYW4gc2VlIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBsb3Qgb2YgcHJvYmxlbXMgYXJvdW5kIGFkb3B0aW5n IHBhdGVudAo+ID4gPiAicHJvdGVjdGlvbiIsIHJpZ2h0IG5vdyB0aGUgc2l0dWF0aW9uIGlzIGJh ZCwgYnV0IGNhbiBiZSB3b3JzZS4gRVBPIGlzCj4gPiA+IGdyYW50aW5nIHNvZnR3YXJlIHBhdGVu dHMgZXZlbiBpZiB0aGV5IGFyZW4ndCAgYXBsaWNhYmxlIGluIEV1cm9wZSwKPiA+ID4gYWZ0ZXIg RVBMQSB3aWxsIGNvbWUgdG8gaXQncyBmdW5jdGlvbiBvciBDb21tdW5pdHkgUGF0ZW50IGJhc2Vk IG9uCj4gPiA+IExvbmRvbi9NdW5pY2ggcGF0ZW50IGFncmVlbWVudCB3ZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgcmVh bGx5IHNpbWlsbGlhciBzaXR1YXRpb24KPiA+ID4gbGlrZSB0aGUgVW5pdGVkIFN0YXRlcyBoYXZl IG5vdy4KPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gSG93cyB0aGUgcGF0ZW50IHByb2JsZW1hdGljcyBhbmQgbGF3IGlz IGluIFVuaXRlZCBzdGF0ZXMgSSBoYXZlIGp1c3QKPiA+ID4gY29uY2x1c2lvbiBhbmQgaW5mb3Jt YXRpb24gZnJvbSBuZXdzIHBhcGVyLiBJcyB0aGVyZSBzb21lb25lIGRlYWxpbmcKPiA+ID4gd2l0 aCBpdCBpbiBVUz8KPiA+ID4KPiA+ID4gSmFuCj4gPgo+ID4gV2hvYS4gIFlvdSBzZWVtIHRvIGJl IGZhciBtb3JlIGxlZ2FsbHkgaW5jbGluZWQgdGhhbiBJLCBzbyBJJ20gbm90IGV2ZW4gZ29pbmcK PiA+Cj4gPiB0byBwcmV0ZW5kIHRvIGtub3cgYW55dGhpbmcgc3BlY2lmaWMgYXMgZmFyIGFzIHdo YXQgYWN0aW9ucyBhcmUgYmVpbmcgdGFrZW4KPiA+IGJ5IC5nb3YgaGVyZSBpbiB0aGUgU3RhdGVz LiAgSG93ZXZlciwgSSBkbyBrbm93IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHBhdGVudHMKPiA+IHBvcHBpbmcg dXAgdGhhdCB0aGUgT1NTIGNvbW11bml0ZXMgYXJlIGdyb3dpbmcgbW9yZSBhbmQgbW9yZSBjb25j ZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQuCj4gPgo+ID4gT25lIGV4YW1wbGU6IChsaW5rIG1heSB3cmFwKToKPiA+Cj4g Pgo+IGh0dHA6Ly9wYXRmdDEudXNwdG8uZ292L25ldGFjZ2kvbnBoLVBhcnNlcj9TZWN0MT1QVE8x JlNlY3QyPUhJVE9GRiZkPVBBTEwmcD0xJnU9JTJGbmV0YWh0bWwlMkZQVE8lMkZzcmNobnVtLmh0 bSZyPTEmZj1HJmw9NTAmczE9NywxNDAsMDI4LlBOLiZPUz1QTi83LDE0MCwwMjgmUlM9UE4vNywx NDAsMDI4Cj4gPgo+ID4gSSBwcm92aWRlIHRoZSBsaW5rLCBidXQgSSBjb3VsZG4ndCB0ZWxsIHlv dSBtdWNoIGFib3V0IHRoZSBsYW5ndWFnZSBvZiB0aGUKPiA+IHBhdGVudCBpdHNlbGYsIGV4Y2Vw dCB0byByZWl0ZXJhdGUgd2hhdHMgYWxyZWFkeSBiZWVuIHNhaWQuICBUaGlzIGlzIGEgcGF0ZW50 Cj4gPgo+ID4gZm9yIGNvbXBpbGluZyBjb2RlIHRvIHJ1biBvbiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgb3BlcmF0aW5n IHN5c3RlbXMuLi4gIElmIHRoYXQgcmVhbGx5Cj4gPiBpcyB0aGUgY2FzZSwgdGhlbiBJIGRvbid0 IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXQncyBqdXN0IHRoZSBHQ0MgYXQgcmlzay4KPiA+Cj4gPiBUaGVyZSBzaG91 bGQgYmUgbGF3cyBhYm91dCBjbGFpbWluZyB0aGluZ3MgbGlrZSB0aGlzLiAgVGhlcmUgaXMgbm90 aGluZwo+ID4gdW5pcXVlCj4gPiBhYm91dCBpdCwgYW5kIG1vc3QgZGV2ZWxvcGVycyBraXRzIGhh dmUgc29tZXRoaW5nIGF0IGxlYXN0IHRvbyBzaW1pbGFyIGZvciBNUwo+ID4KPiA+IHRvIHNheSwg IlRoaXMgaXMgb3VyIGlkZWEsIGFuZCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHByb3RlY3QgaXQuIiAgSWYg aXQncyB1bmlxdWUKPiA+IHRvIHRoZW0sIHRoZW4gZmluZS4gIEJ1dCBpZiBpdCdzIHNvbWV0aGlu ZyB0aGF0IGhhcyBiZWVuIHVzZWQgYnkgbW9zdAo+ID4gZGV2ZWxvcGVycyBvdXQgdGhlcmUsIGl0 IGF2YWlsYWJsZSB0byB0aGUgcHVibGljIHRvIHVzZSBhdCB3aWxsLCBpdCdzIG1ldGhvZHMKPiA+ Cj4gPiBhcmUgY29tbW9ubHkga25vd24sIHRoZW4gdGhlIHBhdGVudCBpbiBubyB3YXksIHNoYXBl LCBvciBmb3JtIHNob3VsZCBiZQo+ID4gaXNzdWVkLiAgSW4gZmFjdCwgSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQg Y29tcGFuaWVzIHdobyBkbyB0aGlzIHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIHRvIHBheQo+ID4gZmluZXMgZm9yIGV2 ZW4gYXR0ZW1wdGluZyBpdC4KPiA+Cj4gPiBNaWtlCj4KPiBNaWNyb3NvZnQgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJl IGNsYWltaW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlIGlkZWEgb2YgdXNpbmcgb25lIHR5cGUgb2YgY29tcHV0ZXIgdG8K PiBidWlsZCBhbiBvcGVyYXRpbmcgc3lzdGVtIGZvciBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCB0eXBlIG9mIGNvbXB1 dGVyIGlzIHRoZWlyIGlkZWEuCj4gVW5mb3J0dW5hdGVseSAoZm9yIE1pY3Jvc29mdCkgdGhpcyBw cmFjdGljZSBoYXMgYmVlbiBrbm93biBpbiB0aGUgInB1YmxpYwo+IGRvbWFpbiIgZm9yIGRlY2Fk ZXMuIFRoaXMgY2xhaW0gd291bGQgYmUgbGF1Z2hhYmxlIGlmIGl0IHdhc250IHNlcmlvdXMgLQo+ IGluc3RlYWQgaXQgaXMganVzdCBwYXRoZXRpYy4KPgo+IFRpbS4KPgo+Cj4KPiBfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBEbyB5b3UgWWFob28hPwo+IEV2ZXJ5b25lIGlzIHJhdmluZyBh Ym91dCB0aGUgYWxsLW5ldyBZYWhvbyEgTWFpbCBiZXRhLgo+IGh0dHA6Ly9uZXcubWFpbC55YWhv by5jb20KPgoKCi0tIAogLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0KfCAgICAg IEphbiBIdXNhcgp8ICAgICAgQ2hhaXJtYW4KfAp8ICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5za29zaS5vcmcKIC0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tCnwgZnJlZWRvbWV1cm9wZS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20KfCBH bnVQRyAxMDI0RC9EREIxQzFBRQp8IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cub3BlbnNvdXJjZS5vcmcK From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 29 07:24:49 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1768916A494 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:24:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wizlayer@gmail.com) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.231]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B467943CF2 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:23:11 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from wizlayer@gmail.com) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s18so2070567wxc for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:23:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:from:reply-to:to:subject:date:user-agent:cc:references:in-reply-to:x-copyright-notice:x-copyright-info:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:message-id; b=WXVyx6N2Ia5jiAQ9o000Ov/WE+MSVZUnDW9MpSwktpO+xm5rCwf/9Xd6WUscOurVoQZOKBUU7ET9AAWBdNA6kf8BOJu5Cy45OJAkPn7xMNAqtP9H/fbibsuXrff2bdSUmLTy5lAr3r8PvRtFBtJz9b9jVSpHfjFbJlx4onSVtJo= Received: by 10.70.74.6 with SMTP id w6mr3097849wxa.1164774129602; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.100? ( [204.116.241.218]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id i15sm26637359wxd.2006.11.28.20.22.08; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:22:09 -0800 (PST) From: WizLayer To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, jan.husar@skosi.org Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:23:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <197873.77889.qm@web50302.mail.yahoo.com> <541b7a870611281721o13fdb271q2797e419c75d9b0b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <541b7a870611281721o13fdb271q2797e419c75d9b0b@mail.gmail.com> X-Copyright-Notice: 2006 Michael C. Hauber X-Copyright-Info: This transmission, including any data found herein is copyrighted material and may not be copied, forwarded, or repeated by any means without written consent from the copyright owner. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200611282323.35814.wizlayer@gmail.com> Cc: Subject: Re: BSD folks position on GPL, Novell, IBM, SCO, and MS... X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: wizlayer@gmail.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:24:49 -0000 On Tuesday 28 November 2006 20:21, Jan Husar proclaimed: >> On 11/29/06, Tim Clewlow wrote: > > > > From: Mike Hauber > > > > > > > > What if Sun pulls a SCO with their Java? If IBM pulls a SCO with > > > > their contributions? If Novell pulls a SCO with their > > > > contributions? I would like to think that their intentions are > > > > honest, but after SCO, and then MSs very weird deal with Novell, > > > > who knows? (and by the way, is IBM working with the BSD community > > > > as well? I hadn't read anything on that, and would be interested > > > > to know more if they are). > > > > > >This is just a speculation and really lame one ;/ > > > BTW... It was not my intention to say IBM and Sun are going to turn around and do MsBrides. My point was just how much can we trust companies that contribute, when there _are_ MsBrides out there? Shouldn't there be some type of written agreement stating that they agree not to pull any SCOs? I'll keep my reservations for Novell, though. That was just too weird for my taste (and apparently so for most GPLees). > > Microsoft appear to be claiming that the idea of using one type of > > computer to build an operating system for a different type of computer is > > their idea. Unfortunately (for Microsoft) this practice has been known in > > the "public domain" for decades. This claim would be laughable if it > > wasnt serious - instead it is just pathetic. > > > > Tim. > > > You hited the target, but as you prolly know also double-click is > patentable.... > > ;( > > Jan > Something came up on CNET about the patent process being reviewed by the Supreme Court. Now I don't look so legally dumb... Yeah right. :) Link may wrap: http://news.com.com/Supreme%2BCourt%2Bweighs%2Bobviousness%2Bof%2Bpatents/2100-1014_3-6138969.html?tag=nefd.lede I don't know how old this is (the source doesn't include a date, either), but at least it's being looked at: http://www.point-of-law.com/report.asp?id=467&page=1 Us poor folk can't defend ourselves if our defense is going to cost us $2 million and up per claim... And what even makes it worse is that now, there's OSS insurance companies. Gee... Just in case the open source communities turn out to be a bunch of thieves, I better get me some insurance. That's sickening. People can't even be transparently honest these days without getting mud/fud thrown at them, and there are lions, tigers, and bears out there who are actually willing to take advantage of the FUD by ripping off their piggy banks while they're not looking? :) I'm really not trying to rant, here. I'm just trying to figure out a way to be productive about it. Is this something that we should be shrugging off or is this something we need to be openly fighting against? If it's something that we should be fighting, then how to go about it? Or is this something we just have to wait out and suffer the publicity blows until the FUDster's lights fade, and hope we won't owe our inheritances to a bunch of lawyers in the process? I found out from Groklaw that NYU is doing a study review of patents and supposedly MS has agreed to be reviewed along with IBM and a few others. There weren't any links provided, but that should be interesting. Mike From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 1 13:37:43 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F3D16A492; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:37:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from hub.org (hub.org [200.46.204.220]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8A843CAA; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:37:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from scrappy@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (unknown [200.46.204.187]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230F6118BF92; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:37:37 -0400 (AST) Received: from hub.org ([200.46.204.220]) by localhost (mx1.hub.org [200.46.204.187]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60966-04; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:37:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from ganymede.hub.org (blk-137-79-174.eastlink.ca [24.137.79.174]) by hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14F6118B5D5; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:37:33 -0400 (AST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganymede.hub.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B715455EA; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:37:42 -0400 (AST) Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 09:37:40 -0400 From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <790836B32B92A144741590DC@ganymede.hub.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.6 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Subject: BSDstats v5.0 Released (totally backwards compatible) X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:37:43 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've just extended the bsdstats script to allow for *optional* reporting of installed ports ... the only change for this is that its using 'nc' for reporting of ports, since it would break GETs length limits ... It reports in category, port and version of the port ... Antony coded up 'proxy related' settings as well, so that nc *should* work through a proxy ... he's planning on testing the code more on his servers in the morning, but this is tested in a non-proxy setup ... The code doesn't change any of the other tests, so nothing gets 'broken' is you stick with the older v4.x clients ... its only if you wish to add to the ports report is the upgrade required ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFcDAl4QvfyHIvDvMRAhjcAKC1yXuoFJabLaIlDI2KfZtrghzd0ACdGDhy R00bx1HcaQKhgcN9Uer2E4c= =DOue -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----