From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 15:43:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C7241065672 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:43:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dandantheitman@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33698FC1F for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dandantheitman@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id c8so963022wra.27 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:43:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=t/yJGfdhrhmIOwaRLYq7auFTYWOHYYV5DsHodgoN7OA=; b=VjZxBmz4cpzVFhTWII35CT2MprQ4JlaA207q0VYtVWwe9Rr2bpHpo8zMY9vuGQlK0W 4oH8LG26oJWpShpfr3aKry6+VWteE8VOZP1lktKaGXLEBJE6UqDqjPC5dIWzim3qCSAT 9ucc96AVQDb+NmR8BBiP1jbC1M9DWzQDzVgUI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=tXdlI5tYPSzBYK4zVPGlw5Z/enwDcgd4qfsnJNTU4nXgGRKxtFVWQzSDTZq0LBjfa1 7iMHdrYNww6gdelgUSdPyq9XBHyW3fLPMfrkPToBM8Lc9q4qFATXOQrvy9e8xZZ3lcHa k1ayF00iisLXo+VQcHLhnAXuCnGRkD8hhgqv8= Received: by 10.90.104.8 with SMTP id b8mr8326846agc.101.1214147966252; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.99.2 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9ee13d4f0806220819s28681841gb22023290898a643@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:19:26 -0400 From: dandantheitman To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: FreeBSD on Apple G4 PowerPC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 15:43:40 -0000 Morning All, I have been an avid apple mac user for a couple of years and have decided to give FreeBSD a whirl on my PowerBook G4. So went ahead and downloaded the latest FreeBSD7 release for PPC and have attempted to install it. However FreeBSD 7 does not detect my hard drive when I try to partition and slice it. I have looked in the FreeBSD handbook, but it doesn't tell me alot. Any ideas guys ? thanks Dan -- _____________________________________________________________ " They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 02:27:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A519106564A for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:27:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mv@thebeastie.org) Received: from p4.roq.com (ns1.ecoms.com [207.44.130.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7EC8FC18 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:27:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mv@thebeastie.org) Received: from p4.roq.com (localhost.roq.com [127.0.0.1]) by p4.roq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A554C4F9 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:59:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.jumbuck.com (p82.jumbuck.com [206.112.99.82]) by p4.roq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EEAD4C377 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:59:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.jumbuck.com (mail.jumbuck.com [206.112.99.82]) by mail.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B534F1ACBCDE; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:58:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from beaste5.jumbuck.com (ppp198-18.static.internode.on.net [59.167.198.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072971ACBCD4; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:58:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from beaste5.jumbuck.com (beast5 [192.168.46.105]) by beaste5.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2433209D2CA; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:58:55 +1000 (EST) Received: from [192.168.46.121] (unknown [192.168.46.121]) by beaste5.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED50209D2C9; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:58:55 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <485F035D.9080403@thebeastie.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:58:53 +1000 From: Michael Vince User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Unga References: <285746.27928.qm@web57009.mail.re3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <285746.27928.qm@web57009.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supercomputing with FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:27:52 -0000 Yes I remember when Nvidia posted that post so they could better support their hardware on FreeBSD, but at least a few FreeBSD developers slammed the Nvidia poster for reasons that appeared to me to be quite unreasonable. While I have not tracked what came out of all that I assumed very little. It reminds me of when OpenBSD got a huge financial contribution to do a few projects for DARPA that would of helped the OpenBSD OS in a bunch of security and related features, but the leader of OpenBSD was arguably 'immature' about where the money was coming from and thus lost the financial contribution, due to some comments he made publicly. These things happen on open projects like these, in theory you will always have people who hate larger bodies of power and I guess its OK for them to voice their opinions, but there should be some good upper leader ship to take advantage of these opportunities, ideally. Mike Unga wrote: > Hi all supercomputing interested guys and gals > > You may have seen this: > 1. University of Antwerp makes 4000EUR NVIDIA > supercomputer > (http://www.dvhardware.net/article27538.html) > > 2. FASTRA GPU SuperPC > (http://fastra.ua.ac.be/en/index.html) > > > I would like to first quote following from > http://fastra.ua.ac.be/en/specs.html : > > "Software overview > ------------------ > > We selected Windows XP-64 as the operating system for > FASTRA. There were three reasons for choosing this > platform: first, we needed a 64-bit operating system, > in order to utilize 8GB of RAM. Second, we expected > fewer driver issues on Windows compared to Linux. > Third, within the Windows product line, Windows Vista > is not yet supported by the NVIDIA GPU Computing > platform, leaving Windows XP as the only choice. For > development, we use Microsoft Visual Studio 2008. The > core functionality for our CPU code is written in C++ > (Visual C++), while MATLAB is often used as a > front-end for rapid prototyping. All GPU code is > developed using the NVIDIA CUDA framework > (http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html), a > C-like programming language that allows for efficient > programming of the NVIDIA GPUs." > > This opportunity make it available to FreeBSD users > has many great benefits. We can use FreeBSD, AMD64 and > Nvidia combination at an affordable price for great > many computational intensive tasks such as compilation > (FreeBSD has a parallel make), rendering, encoding, > etc. Of course such supercomputational-ready software > should be available first. But the question is, is the > FreeBSD infrastructurally ready for that? > > FreeBSD runs on amd64. But we have following issues: > 1. Nvidia doesn't release a driver for amd64. > > 2. The NVIDIA CUDA framework > (http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html), is not > available for FreeBSD, but it is available for Linux > and Mac OSX. So porting CUDA to FreeBSD may not be a > big issue. > > To resolve the above two issues: > 1. FreeBSD should proactively address following > issues: > - > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2006-June/016995.html > - http://wiki.freebsd.org/NvidiaFeatureRequests > > I don't understand why the the FreeBSD project does > not organize a Google SoC style project to address the > above issues, invite few developers to join the > project, either use FreeBSD donated funds or seeks > fresh funds for the project (AMD and Nvidia will sure > donate if requested as they are direct beneficiaries). > The project could be at least to be targeted to commit > for upcoming FreeBSD 8.0. I would like to understand > why organize such a project is very difficult and what > are the issues regarding that. > > 2. Once above point 1. is fixed, I'm sure the Nvidia > will port the CUDA framework to FreeBSD and release a > driver for amd64. If not FreeBSD project/foundation > can request from Nvidia. > > Kind regards > Unga > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 12:08:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3943D1065674 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:08:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip.s.schulz@googlemail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.245]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55268FC12 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:08:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from philip.s.schulz@googlemail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so616810ana.13 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:08:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=KDah9H4AUWULEuJsb7zEm8mx2RzZbYLg/jfgs/xBQ9E=; b=GjNgXAyWrukJJYjmoZOYQ6fMhgl3OcvQAgCBBEMlSvQFUaF0f51xikXox+aomudyAK yKdjerPtZZA9dB8OlhI14+zdFKna+lq/QBOFOqg6vCPtrGr0usrBm3a4K2SYk1YNDhVL AxVtQ1aoThywc4ZiB0UqyTX0cBeGmoZ2jgBJg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=SmVm2BJi12iR6LxWOBrkuJbZv6VArbWJD3jt1PIE1pNhYXbIWjHXnt1l9i3Ar0d2s8 voFLdhzfuNbPoBZxwbzi5wHKsPEaRt0nf/jhFAuEJy9azV4j+VVKJtmq9o4egXqVLXdH 3uS1aa0ZVlx53OZyCkd3Dd++pnnt3WE2mXGmg= Received: by 10.100.226.6 with SMTP id y6mr12975472ang.88.1214221367228; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.121.14 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1c66db910806230442t547f1d61se0d3686764a318ed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:42:47 +0200 From: "Philip Schulz" To: dandantheitman In-Reply-To: <9ee13d4f0806220819s28681841gb22023290898a643@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <9ee13d4f0806220819s28681841gb22023290898a643@mail.gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on Apple G4 PowerPC X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:08:03 -0000 Hi, 2008/6/22 dandantheitman : > Morning All, > > I have been an avid apple mac user for a couple of years and have > decided to give FreeBSD a whirl on my PowerBook G4. So went ahead and > downloaded the latest FreeBSD7 release for PPC and have attempted to > install it. > > However FreeBSD 7 does not detect my hard drive when I try to > partition and slice it. I have looked in the FreeBSD handbook, but it > doesn't tell me alot. > I think what you're seeing is described in PR power/93203. There are instructions on how to install FreeBSD on PowerPC out there, but I can't find them right now. For PowerPC-specific questions ppc@freebsd.org is a good place to ask. HTH, Philip From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 12:40:52 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0A59106564A for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:40:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D908FC14 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:40:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C9622086; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:40:50 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Michael Vince References: <285746.27928.qm@web57009.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <485F035D.9080403@thebeastie.org> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:40:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: <485F035D.9080403@thebeastie.org> (Michael Vince's message of "Mon\, 23 Jun 2008 11\:58\:53 +1000") Message-ID: <86od5smii6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Unga , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supercomputing with FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:40:52 -0000 Michael Vince writes: > Yes I remember when Nvidia posted that post so they could better > support their hardware on FreeBSD, but at least a few FreeBSD > developers slammed the Nvidia poster for reasons that appeared to me > to be quite unreasonable. The only people who slammed it were those who had no clue what it was all about. Several of the features nVidia requested are being worked on by those who do. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 04:25:49 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 280C71065670 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:25:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: from web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com (web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com [66.196.97.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF0A88FC1C for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unga888@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52301 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Jun 2008 04:25:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=KuJWVL9aQBufBCA9H22PeK3DQHHZuuTxD3Ine/95bgVxS8hVmpFL5NDKvCTbF38/9PufJcM+yZsUNsxXLE5QLWdDny/9swe7uaNugJj0TBdzLx+mVF8reg6+mq90jnRSROQbeeSDI7RPtVLjP0jx6WnazrjaG1a+9uuYm9OSofw=; Received: from [165.21.155.112] by web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:25:47 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.199 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:25:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Unga To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86od5smii6.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <657952.52146.qm@web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supercomputing with FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: unga888@yahoo.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:25:49 -0000 --- On Mon, 6/23/08, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > From: Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav > Subject: Re: Supercomputing with FreeBSD? > To: "Michael Vince" > Cc: "Unga" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 8:40 PM > Michael Vince writes: > > Yes I remember when Nvidia posted that post so they > could better > > support their hardware on FreeBSD, but at least a few > FreeBSD > > developers slammed the Nvidia poster for reasons that > appeared to me > > to be quite unreasonable. >=20 > The only people who slammed it were those who had no clue > what it was > all about. Several of the features nVidia requested are > being worked on > by those who do. >=20 Its finally very good to note people who know how to do it are being workin= g on it. At a time Linux is either fading or struggling on desktop, and at a time Li= nux developers have to beg for OEMs for open source drivers that they never= get, it is the undeniable responsibility of the FreeBSD developers who kno= w how to clear those issues to clear it and make the infrastructure ready f= or OEMs to develop drivers for FreeBSD.=20 Success of the FreeBSD based desktop depends on the availability of drivers= direct from OEMs, ie, from those who have the specs for it. Its up to the = OEMs to decide whether to open source the drivers or not. Its only the BSDs= can offer this freedom of choice to OEMs, not definitely Linux, which lega= lly demands them to open source only. Another importance of this is, gaming developers are increasingly voice for= 64-bit operating systems. Top end game developers find maximum 4GB RAM is = a thing of the past, they need very much more. Things that nVidia requested are not only for nVidia, I can remember either= Open Sound System developers or Jack developers also mentioned they are al= so handicapped with non-availability of such features.=20 Good luck for those guys who work on the requirements highlighted by nVidia= and get them soon out with FreeBSD 7.X and/or FreeBSD 8.0. Best Regards Unga =0A=0A=0A From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 08:58:31 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40FD0106564A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:58:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDBE8FC27 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:58:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B70692083; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:58:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: unga888@yahoo.com References: <657952.52146.qm@web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:58:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <657952.52146.qm@web57008.mail.re3.yahoo.com> (Unga's message of "Wed\, 25 Jun 2008 21\:25\:47 -0700 \(PDT\)") Message-ID: <86prq41sjv.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/23.0.60 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Supercomputing with FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:58:31 -0000 Unga writes: > At a time Linux is either fading or struggling on desktop, and at a > time Linux developers have to beg for OEMs for open source drivers > that they never get, [...] Linux is neither failing nor struggling on the desktop, nor do the major distributions have any trouble running vendor-provided binary drivers. > Success of the FreeBSD based desktop depends on the availability of > drivers direct from OEMs, ie, from those who have the specs for it. > Its up to the OEMs to decide whether to open source the drivers or > not. Its only the BSDs can offer this freedom of choice to OEMs, not > definitely Linux, which legally demands them to open source only. Linux does not "legally demand" open source drivers. In fact, since Linux's kernel API and ABI are far more stable than FreeBSD's, it is much easier to maintain binary drivers for Linux than it is for FreeBSD. > Another importance of this is, gaming developers are increasingly > voice for 64-bit operating systems. Top end game developers find > maximum 4GB RAM is a thing of the past, they need very much more. Name one example... Some game publishers have released 64-bit versions of selected games, but nobody would even dream of releasing a 64-bit-only game. It would be suicide. Even though > 90% of computers sold today are 64-bit capable, most of them ship with a 32-bit operating system. Considering the expense of shipping and supporting two versions of the same game, I doubt 64-bit games will really take off until a sizeable portion of mid-range computers ship with a 64-bit operating system. I suspect this won't happen for at least another two years. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 10:54:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D48B1065677 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1215340796.0278cc@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (rwxrwxrwx.net [82.93.23.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219378FC24 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1215340796.0278cc@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C082E6D491 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:40:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.rwxrwxrwx.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MxBeyCk4VW-J for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:39:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3AC286D48F; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:39:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by glitch.rwxrwxrwx.net (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:39:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:39:55 +0200 To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Martin Tournoij Mail-Followup-To: chat@freebsd.org X-Primary-Address: carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net Cc: Subject: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Martin Tournoij List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:54:29 -0000 Sign it here: http://www.petitiononline.com/0034655a/petition.html The number of Adobe Flash sites are growing, and an increasing amount of sites will simply cease to function when Flash is disabled or unavailable. I would like to call to all web developers to (re)consider their use of Flash, while it does have place on the web, it is often used in the wrong way, on the wrong place, in a badly implemented manner. Why I dislike flash: o It often adds little or nothing to a website, most things can often be achieved with either CSS or Javascript (or a combination) which suffer from much less problems. o Flash is not usable, for example it often breaks the back button, "find in page" does not work, setting font size does not work, and many more. o Browser settings such as font size, enabling/disabled sound in web pages etc. do not apply to flash, leaving the page's designer, not the user, in control of the browser. o Flash is not accessible, screen readers, braille displays etc. often have serious difficulty accessing flash pages. o Progressive enhancement is difficult to achieve with flash, unlike for example CSS or Javascript, flash is binary data which interacts poorly with HTML. o Flash is not supported on all operating systems, and only on a very limited set of architectures. o Flash is slow, if you do not have a new $1000 PC but a somewhat older "office PC" flash can be a serious performance hit. o There are a number of security issues with flash, and Adobe has never seemed to quick/concerned to fix them. o Animation is annoying, I want to access information, not watch a "cool" animation. Sincerely, The Undersigned -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: I would have made a good pope. -- Richard Nixon From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 11:28:50 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124301065675 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:28:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars.engels@0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.ipv6.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EBE8FC1E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:28:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars.engels@0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.67.217]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5184359FB for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:28:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 193.109.238.110 ([193.109.238.110]) by 0x20.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:28:47 +0200 Message-ID: <20080626132847.abf4caa680k0wwgg@0x20.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:28:47 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> In-Reply-To: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_5w791ays8x0k"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.3) Subject: Re: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:28:50 -0000 This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_5w791ays8x0k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting Martin Tournoij : > Sign it here: > > http://www.petitiononline.com/0034655a/petition.html > > The number of Adobe Flash sites are growing, and an increasing > amount of sites will simply cease to function when Flash is disabled > or unavailable. > > I would like to call to all web developers to (re)consider their use > of Flash, while it does have place on the web, it is often used in the > wrong way, on the wrong place, in a badly implemented manner. > > Why I dislike flash: > > o It often adds little or nothing to a website, most things can often > be achieved with either CSS or Javascript (or a combination) which > suffer from much less problems. > > o Flash is not usable, for example it often breaks the back button, > "find in page" does not work, setting font size does not work, and > many more. > > o Browser settings such as font size, enabling/disabled sound in web > pages etc. do not apply to flash, leaving the page's designer, not the > user, in control of the browser. > > o Flash is not accessible, screen readers, braille displays etc. often > have serious difficulty accessing flash pages. > > o Progressive enhancement is difficult to achieve with flash, unlike > for example CSS or Javascript, flash is binary data which interacts > poorly with HTML. > > o Flash is not supported on all operating systems, and only on a very > limited set of architectures. > > o Flash is slow, if you do not have a new $1000 PC but a somewhat > older "office PC" flash can be a serious performance hit. > > o There are a number of security issues with flash, and Adobe has > never seemed to quick/concerned to fix them. > > o Animation is annoying, I want to access information, not watch a > "cool" animation. > > Sincerely, > The Undersigned > While I totally agree to the above statements, tell me the sense of an =20 online petition. Do you know a single petition that changed _anything_? The petition is adressed "Web Designers". How should they get aware of =20 the petition? You cannot change the internet with that. Every big commercial site =20 has flash. It's colorful, it's loud, it attracts the people to their =20 products. So you won't convince the webmaster of these sites to change. Flash sucks but we can't avoid it. :-( --=_5w791ays8x0k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale PGP-Unterschrift Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEABECAAYFAkhjfW8ACgkQKc512sD3afhIgACeJJvhAboBBeTRXRhYGZsWo3su ligAoJI+Os/N8BGAipErhBhKtaGzbVo1 =BfCY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_5w791ays8x0k-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 12:14:29 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA551065674 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:14:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1215345703.abdd4a@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (rwxrwxrwx.net [82.93.23.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 802F58FC13 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:14:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1215345703.abdd4a@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D6E6D491 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:01:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.rwxrwxrwx.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvcNe2ZWo2HN for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6618C6D48F; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:01:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by glitch.rwxrwxrwx.net (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:01:43 +0200 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:01:41 +0200 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080626120141.GA28507@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> <20080626132847.abf4caa680k0wwgg@0x20.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080626132847.abf4caa680k0wwgg@0x20.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Martin Tournoij Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Primary-Address: carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net Subject: Re: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Martin Tournoij List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:14:30 -0000 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 01:28:47PM +0200, Lars Engels wrote: > Quoting Martin Tournoij : > >> Sign it here: >> >> http://www.petitiononline.com/0034655a/petition.html >> [..snip..] >> > > While I totally agree to the above statements, tell me the sense of an > online petition. Do you know a single petition that changed _anything_? > The petition is adressed "Web Designers". How should they get aware of the > petition? Of course it won't cause a paradigm shift, but it can be used to show that many people/users are not at all impressed but annoyed with "sleak" flash sites, which might just be enough to convince a few people/sites. Even if only manages to convince a few people .. Is it not worth your 20 seconds? > You cannot change the internet with that. Every big commercial site has > flash. It's colorful, it's loud, it attracts the people to their products. > So you won't convince the webmaster of these sites to change. Actually, that's not true, big commercial sites are usable because more usability == more profit, and since flash != usable, flash == less profit. Big sites like Amazon, Ebay, Google, Yahoo, etc. are all relatively simple websites, it's true that quite a few websites from big companies who's core business is not internet use flash, but this not in those companies best interest either because usability == profit etc. I'm not sure why so many sites from big companies use flash, maybe it's some bigshot suit who thinks he knows best or something... -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: The mosquito exists to keep the mighty humble. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 12:48:27 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA471065687 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:48:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from smtp.utwente.nl (unknown [IPv6:2001:610:1908:1000:204:23ff:feb5:7e66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956888FC1B for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:48:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from [130.89.180.123] (vpn180123.student.utwente.nl [130.89.180.123]) by smtp.utwente.nl (8.12.10/SuSE Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id m5QCmCSm032406 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:48:13 +0200 Message-ID: <48639014.6070203@student.utwente.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:48:20 +0000 From: "Alphons \"Fonz\" van Werven" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> <20080626132847.abf4caa680k0wwgg@0x20.net> <20080626120141.GA28507@rwxrwxrwx.net> In-Reply-To: <20080626120141.GA28507@rwxrwxrwx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-UTwente-MailScanner-Information: Scanned by MailScanner. Contact servicedesk@icts.utwente.nl for more information. X-UTwente-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-UTwente-MailScanner-From: a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl X-Spam-Status: No Subject: Re: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:48:27 -0000 Martin Tournoij wrote: > I'm not sure why so many sites from big companies use flash, maybe > it's some bigshot suit who thinks he knows best or something... That probably has a lot to do with it. I think it's often not so much the actual webdesigners but rather their customers (i.e. the companies hiring them) who request Flash because it looks good, not having a clue about its disadvantages. Alphons P.S. There was a long thread about this subject on -questions not so long ago, which can probably be found in the archives. -- If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, get out of the vehicle. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 19:34:01 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FC71065685 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A308FC12 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:34:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAAaFY0iC1Apk/2dsb2JhbAC0GA Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 26 Jun 2008 12:05:28 -0700 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.3HF378) with ESMTP id 2008062612052707-601 ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:05:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Martin Tournoij In-Reply-To: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> Message-ID: References: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 06/26/2008 12:05:27, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.3HF378 | February 28, 2008) at 06/26/2008 12:05:28, Serialize complete at 06/26/2008 12:05:28 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:34:02 -0000 [coment(s) below] On Thu, 26 Jun 2008, Martin Tournoij wrote: > Sign it here: > > http://www.petitiononline.com/0034655a/petition.html > > The number of Adobe Flash sites are growing, and an increasing > amount of sites will simply cease to function when Flash is disabled > or unavailable. > > I would like to call to all web developers to (re)consider their use > of Flash, while it does have place on the web, it is often used in the > wrong way, on the wrong place, in a badly implemented manner. > > Why I dislike flash: > > o It often adds little or nothing to a website, most things can often > be achieved with either CSS or Javascript (or a combination) which > suffer from much less problems. > > o Flash is not usable, for example it often breaks the back button, > "find in page" does not work, setting font size does not work, and > many more. > > o Browser settings such as font size, enabling/disabled sound in web > pages etc. do not apply to flash, leaving the page's designer, not the > user, in control of the browser. > > o Flash is not accessible, screen readers, braille displays etc. often > have serious difficulty accessing flash pages. > > o Progressive enhancement is difficult to achieve with flash, unlike > for example CSS or Javascript, flash is binary data which interacts > poorly with HTML. > > o Flash is not supported on all operating systems, and only on a very > limited set of architectures. > Maybe I am missing something, but isn't the petition about getting the FreeBSD desktop to be able to view flash sites (I hope so). If I am mistaken, I apologize for my OT spam. I have a bunch of those emails sitting in my box and I am just now bursting to make a comment here. I _really_ hope that some bounty gets paid or something that implies that I will be able to do cvsup or patch or whatever commands to be able to view flash websites. > o Flash is slow, if you do not have a new $1000 PC but a somewhat > older "office PC" flash can be a serious performance hit. > > o There are a number of security issues with flash, and Adobe has > never seemed to quick/concerned to fix them. > Oh dear. This could be the intractable part of the problem for the time being. However, I fail to see how Adobe could continue with this policy, as surely, nobody wants to be cracked (don't say "hacked" hacking is the sound made by highly technical people when their fingers flurry accross their respective keyboards). > o Animation is annoying, I want to access information, not watch a > "cool" animation. > > Sincerely, > The Undersigned > > -- > Martin Tournoij > carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net > http://www.daemonforums.org > > QOTD: > I would have made a good pope. > -- Richard Nixon > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 15:11:41 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063151065676 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from mx1.highperformance.net (s6.stradamotorsports.com [64.81.163.124]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30798FC1B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from w16.stradamotorsports.com (w16.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.16]) by mx1.highperformance.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m5REfpcQ043603 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Message-ID: <4864FC35.8030308@highperformance.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:41:57 -0700 From: "Jason C. Wells" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4pre (X11/20080205) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20080626103955.GA28128@rwxrwxrwx.net> <20080626132847.abf4caa680k0wwgg@0x20.net> <20080626120141.GA28507@rwxrwxrwx.net> In-Reply-To: <20080626120141.GA28507@rwxrwxrwx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=2.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_40 autolearn=failed version=3.1.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.6 (2006-10-03) on s4.stradamotorsports.com Subject: Re: Stop Adobe Flash Petition X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:41 -0000 Martin Tournoij wrote: > Even if only manages to convince a few people .. Is it not worth your > 20 seconds? No. Later, Jason (5 seconds worth there, dangit, i have to be more productive) From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 23:24:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503161065674 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from c-0500.emailmediator.com (c-0500.emailmediator.com [64.85.162.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D158FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:24:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from pool-96-226-66-69.dllstx.fios.verizon.net ([96.226.66.69] helo=reedmedia.net) by c-0500.emailmediator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KCMnK-0002ER-DB for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:51:54 -0400 Received: from reed@reedmedia.net by reedmedia.net with local (mailout 0.17) id 14993-1214607116; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:51:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:51:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: bsd.slashdot.org? favorite BSD news site? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:24:36 -0000 Can anyone here help with posting to bsd.slashdot.org? It seems like it rarely published what is submitted. My own experience and others have told me that they have submitted BSD news that is never published there. Also what is your favorite reliable BSD news site? I know of a BSD book review that needs a home. (I haven't seen the article yet.)