From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 9 06:23:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2282106564A for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 06:23:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xdong.yi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B47C8FC12 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 06:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so11042269bwz.13 for ; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 22:23:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=lc82gJl9n2UUVZOtBf3U2ii/HjHPYtLwFvkF2XqJ83w=; b=Z9DDafKg/wqA4Hv1c06/WMsB6n/ZvxTPo3VUJLn7e0h4pQRNK4ab2dSO4OEAqVPf3D dK60c8oaM2w8M78bA6TDxOJ7CT2wQkZ/gcpIU9zfmBP1Q2idMtAMC///P9MWRHvsxbr3 qr+ryiaID0iP2pnsM5AQXpkO0NjbdqvaKnf2U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=O38ee+wL11D4SUjphDTH/i4bI1AJRm6dNPRepg7Rg+LyEqXEHZZQnsfcGAPUDQX0VO mzBhnwuN5sjGwGQFPmsC2UewIDaK8gEvOnpKR84VtgT0+bLi85DREs5g8nZn1XSpxOfx AQjl3rTUHMHNbU4gXjvrFAv337i/2VCB9n9Jw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.56.194 with SMTP id z2mr10737730bkg.81.1294552903786; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 22:01:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.153.20 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:01:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 14:01:43 +0800 Message-ID: From: Xiaodong Yi To: Juergen Lock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:23:48 -0000 Hi, I confirm that I no longer have time for Luvalley. However, I will be extreemly happy if anybody is willing to take over from me. Especially, I quite agree to customize Luvalley for FreeBSD, through it supports all kinds of Dom0 OSes. Howerver, I hope that the LIGHT architecture of Luvalley could be kept. Maybe it is useful to patch dom0 FreeBSD kernel (especially for interrupt handling), but it should not be very complex. Part of the code comes from KVM, and I suggest to keep flying with KVM to make sure that guest VMs work well. Luvalley does boot and run on bare hardware. But it does not taint dom0 FreeBSD. Although the `non-root' mode dom0 FreeBSD kernel has direct access to BIOS and hardware, Luvalley tries hard to coordinate with it. For example, Luvalley traps the BIOS calls from the FreeBSD kernel to report the modified E820 table. Another example is that Luvalley uses NMI as the IPI interrupt to avoid conflict with BSD kernel. And I also believe that simple patches could work if some corners of FreeBSD kernel are tainted. Regards, and looking forward to the following news ... Xiaodong 2011/1/8 Juergen Lock : > On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 02:02:57PM -0600, Brandon Gooch wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Juergen Lock wr= ote: >> > On Mon, Jan 03, 2011 at 08:00:01PM -0600, Adam Vande More wrote: >> >> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Xiaodong Yi wro= te: >> >> >> >> > I am very glad that Juergen introduced Luvalley to the FreeBSD >> >> > society. We hope you like the idea of it. And we will be much more >> >> > pleased for the feedbacks. Luvally now is only experimental and may= be >> >> > not stable or low performance. But I will continue working to impro= ve >> >> > it. >> >> > >> >> >> >> Just wondering if there's been any progress here? =A0Is it still unde= r >> >> development on FreeBSD? >> > >> > I probably should have posted here when Xiaodong Yi told me a while >> > ago that he no longer has time for Luvalley. =A0(That mail was some >> > time after I asked him about his last sourceforge release which I >> > couldn't get to run on my hw.) >> > >> > =A0So I guess you can say this project is now looking for new >> > `volunteers'... >> > >> > =A0:/ >> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Juergen >> >> Could Luvalley become BSD licensed? > > I think parts of its code are based on the Linux kvm kernel bits > so I guess those authors would have to agree too besides the > Luvalley author... =A0(The linux kernel is only gplv2 tho not gplv3 > and it seems Linus wants it to stay that way.) > > =A0Oh and also IANAL but since the Luvalley `kernel' (hypervisor) > runs on bare metal and boots any dom0 kernel/os (i.e. Linux or > FreeBSD) pretty much the same way how a pc bios boots them I > somehow doubt it would `taint' the FreeBSD kernel. =A0(And the dom0 > kernel also doesn't need any patches, you only then run the Luvalley > version of qemu-kvm in the dom0's userland.) > > =A0HTH, > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Juergen > From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 9 06:34:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7830106566C for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 06:34:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesbrandongooch@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6149D8FC0A for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 06:33:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so18410020wwf.31 for ; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 22:33:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tNiNPPHWFlIpLpLWJhEyr4UEntGL4XA9FTGnWxt4fio=; b=TI4UHgJeJ/IftwGn9Tuyj8RhYF736CUy/CesOdBxgV/3csUm6qdwJ6FgpddAa/WNhH oOD/3Wt2YJf72bab7bMAguU8GxNcVRcwAVDVbbuhBI7rc6LiJlELt6Je90WMeBPWlynp GGYTPyHA0PFgBOXje/ipO/8xyEvTjQxNNuOww= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SaY6uPufy4mqGQa57nYWqatnVUdX+JdJmsOvrk3DkkZ7bJeNQ1gGIo1R7Y3HhAkxEj 5DCFctoapILLifdSDO7OeFDD3otBEcvOfZbKwqhBbcZ3e4pmNIwVOxxp3uvLep0txnnq Hje0hXJpHXgjNbzkZg1XqcjjdjoSAhMBaZRo8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.18.194 with SMTP id l44mr804028wel.87.1294554839118; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 22:33:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.36.71 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Jan 2011 22:33:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 00:33:59 -0600 Message-ID: From: Brandon Gooch To: Xiaodong Yi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:34:01 -0000 On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Xiaodong Yi wrote: > Hi, > > I confirm that I no longer have time for Luvalley. However, I will be > extreemly happy if anybody is willing to take over from me. > Especially, I quite agree to customize Luvalley for FreeBSD, through > it supports all kinds of Dom0 OSes. Howerver, I hope that the LIGHT > architecture of Luvalley could be kept. Maybe it is useful to patch > dom0 FreeBSD kernel (especially for interrupt handling), but it should > not be very complex. Part of the code comes from KVM, and I suggest to > keep flying with KVM to make sure that guest VMs work well. I believe that if serious effort were to be put forward by the FreeBSD developers to further develop the code, the result would need to be GPL and Linux free (or VERY close to it). This is an area of contention within the FreeBSD developer and user community, so it would need to be addressed. As the developer of Luvalley, do you have the ability to re-license the code using a BSD license? Are there too many technical issues with the code to do this? Juergen mentioned that bits of the code are based on (or pulled directly from?) Linux KVM. That probably wouldn't fly here... > Luvalley does boot and run on bare hardware. =A0But it does not taint > dom0 FreeBSD. Although the `non-root' mode dom0 FreeBSD kernel has > direct access to BIOS and hardware, Luvalley tries hard to coordinate > with it. For example, Luvalley traps the BIOS calls from the FreeBSD > kernel to report the modified E820 table. Another example is that > Luvalley uses NMI as the IPI interrupt to avoid conflict with BSD > kernel. And I also believe that simple patches could work if some > corners of FreeBSD kernel are tainted. > > Regards, and looking forward to the following news ... > > Xiaodong As am I... Thanks for chiming in Xiaodong! -Brandon From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 9 11:02:31 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7EED106564A for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:02:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D448FC14 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:02:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 5CE2D1E000DF; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:02:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p09B0MEU011006; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p09B0MmG011005; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:00:22 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:00:22 +0100 To: Brandon Gooch Message-ID: <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Xiaodong Yi , Juergen Lock Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:02:32 -0000 On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 12:33:59AM -0600, Brandon Gooch wrote: > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Xiaodong Yi wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I confirm that I no longer have time for Luvalley. However, I will be > > extreemly happy if anybody is willing to take over from me. > > Especially, I quite agree to customize Luvalley for FreeBSD, through > > it supports all kinds of Dom0 OSes. Howerver, I hope that the LIGHT > > architecture of Luvalley could be kept. Maybe it is useful to patch > > dom0 FreeBSD kernel (especially for interrupt handling), but it should > > not be very complex. Part of the code comes from KVM, and I suggest to > > keep flying with KVM to make sure that guest VMs work well. > > I believe that if serious effort were to be put forward by the FreeBSD > developers to further develop the code, the result would need to be > GPL and Linux free (or VERY close to it). This is an area of > contention within the FreeBSD developer and user community, so it > would need to be addressed. As the developer of Luvalley, do you have > the ability to re-license the code using a BSD license? > > Are there too many technical issues with the code to do this? Juergen > mentioned that bits of the code are based on (or pulled directly > from?) Linux KVM. That probably wouldn't fly here... > > > Luvalley does boot and run on bare hardware.  But it does not taint > > dom0 FreeBSD. Although the `non-root' mode dom0 FreeBSD kernel has > > direct access to BIOS and hardware, Luvalley tries hard to coordinate > > with it. For example, Luvalley traps the BIOS calls from the FreeBSD > > kernel to report the modified E820 table. Another example is that > > Luvalley uses NMI as the IPI interrupt to avoid conflict with BSD > > kernel. And I also believe that simple patches could work if some > > corners of FreeBSD kernel are tainted. > > > > Regards, and looking forward to the following news ... > > > > Xiaodong > > As am I... > > Thanks for chiming in Xiaodong! Actually with `tainting' the FreeBSD kernel I meant causing it to be affected by the gpl and its requirements. So if someone were to ship e.g. an appliance that uses Luvalley and a modified FreeBSD kernel he would only have to provide sourcecode of Luvalley and the userland Luvalley version of qemu-kvm, not of his FreeBSD kernel modifications, or of other (non-gpl) userland apps for that matter. But again, IANAL. :) Cheers, Juergen (also hoping Luvalley will have a future...) From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jan 9 13:57:57 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4DC106564A for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:57:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xdong.yi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42958FC17 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 13:57:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz12 with SMTP id 12so11154512bwz.13 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 05:57:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4u/pSMy7tgmbS0z1in8YQXW43rUFXFpRjzHVM1xUxRs=; b=MIzLjeMED8JAJGLkUn8fDg5N34ZUs0zwwHa6iYqcAL55A+PYYZloXkA1y8u1sutxX9 ui81vm7osVennYY8N/1A26O8EY/73Kj24H9p8YeLwxf5caAzCFSpNXnZJxh39oUZPrt7 U0DLqf3YHrXStGtCS6HU70IIJ7D13r13KTyi4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=A9ETj+ljWk1Z0aQR/e3A7tPFz6SEfRjTFk7hJCvGbA4qR8B36vvC0RIrnG/ZPQ4eaJ SRsPJgeXzJ/ZGw40queN5FTysnJCjI/s0vfF0AoFwY0jRo8ZlBQxRhg+gfkI0gkWrU/Y ZMbqTrA4JEUHYrMriaj2tynzjkxbhmGoF8vRI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.114.81 with SMTP id d17mr14009229bkq.135.1294581472593; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 05:57:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.153.20 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 05:57:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:57:52 +0800 Message-ID: From: Xiaodong Yi To: Juergen Lock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:57:57 -0000 Yes, license is a big problem. And I'm sorry to let you and Brandon know that Luvalley is currently using KVM's code. And I think it's hard and unnecessary to write the virtualization code from scratch. Do you think so? Best regards, Xiaodong 2011/1/9 Juergen Lock : > On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 12:33:59AM -0600, Brandon Gooch wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Xiaodong Yi wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I confirm that I no longer have time for Luvalley. However, I will be >> > extreemly happy if anybody is willing to take over from me. >> > Especially, I quite agree to customize Luvalley for FreeBSD, through >> > it supports all kinds of Dom0 OSes. Howerver, I hope that the LIGHT >> > architecture of Luvalley could be kept. Maybe it is useful to patch >> > dom0 FreeBSD kernel (especially for interrupt handling), but it should >> > not be very complex. Part of the code comes from KVM, and I suggest to >> > keep flying with KVM to make sure that guest VMs work well. >> >> I believe that if serious effort were to be put forward by the FreeBSD >> developers to further develop the code, the result would need to be >> GPL and Linux free (or VERY close to it). This is an area of >> contention within the FreeBSD developer and user community, so it >> would need to be addressed. As the developer of Luvalley, do you have >> the ability to re-license the code using a BSD license? >> >> Are there too many technical issues with the code to do this? Juergen >> mentioned that bits of the code are based on (or pulled directly >> from?) Linux KVM. That probably wouldn't fly here... >> >> > Luvalley does boot and run on bare hardware. =A0But it does not taint >> > dom0 FreeBSD. Although the `non-root' mode dom0 FreeBSD kernel has >> > direct access to BIOS and hardware, Luvalley tries hard to coordinate >> > with it. For example, Luvalley traps the BIOS calls from the FreeBSD >> > kernel to report the modified E820 table. Another example is that >> > Luvalley uses NMI as the IPI interrupt to avoid conflict with BSD >> > kernel. And I also believe that simple patches could work if some >> > corners of FreeBSD kernel are tainted. >> > >> > Regards, and looking forward to the following news ... >> > >> > Xiaodong >> >> As am I... >> >> Thanks for chiming in Xiaodong! > > Actually with `tainting' the FreeBSD kernel I meant causing it to be > affected by the gpl and its requirements. =A0So if someone were to ship > e.g. an appliance that uses Luvalley and a modified FreeBSD kernel he > would only have to provide sourcecode of Luvalley and the userland > Luvalley version of qemu-kvm, not of his FreeBSD kernel modifications, > or of other (non-gpl) userland apps for that matter. > > =A0But again, IANAL. :) > > =A0Cheers, > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Juergen (also hoping Luvalley will have a future...) > From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 01:07:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B894106566B for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:07:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232F48FC08 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:07:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0A0gTtb088792 for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 16:42:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Message-ID: <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 16:42:28 -0800 From: Ted Mittelstaedt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:07:58 -0000 I think the Luvalley architecture is fascinating but one of the larger problems that has always been faced by the Open Source Community has been lack of device driver support for all of the many peripherals and motherboards and bits of hardware out there. This is the problem with "bare metal" hypervisors, we see exactly the same problem with commercial use of the ESXi "bare metal" hypervisor - limited device driver support - and the worst, being disk driver support. ESXi, being based on Linux, has no good support for SATA-raid (ie: poor mans pseudo RAID 0 ) FreeBSD by contrast, has excellent support, far better than Linux. The practical reality of it is I can go out and buy a brand new, super-fast computer and run FreeBSD 8 on it then VirtualBox on that, then my guest OS's under VirtualBox - and get the same performance as a bare-metal hypervisor like ESXi or Luvalley on older hardware. And, with the FreeBSD/VirtualBox way, I get access to a far wider array of hardware including disk RAID hardware. Thus, I have to say that I feel the bare-metal hypervisor approach is a dead-end. Yes, I realize ESX has made a lot of money with this approach but the newest hardware coming on the scene is incredibly fast. Even if you put pseudo raid support into luvalley, your never going to get the kind of hardware support that you can get from an operating system that is used for far many more things than just virtualization. Ted On 1/9/2011 5:57 AM, Xiaodong Yi wrote: > Yes, license is a big problem. And I'm sorry to let you and Brandon > know that Luvalley is currently using KVM's code. And I think it's > hard and unnecessary to write the virtualization code from scratch. Do > you think so? > > Best regards, > > Xiaodong > > 2011/1/9 Juergen Lock: >> On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 12:33:59AM -0600, Brandon Gooch wrote: >>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Xiaodong Yi wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I confirm that I no longer have time for Luvalley. However, I will be >>>> extreemly happy if anybody is willing to take over from me. >>>> Especially, I quite agree to customize Luvalley for FreeBSD, through >>>> it supports all kinds of Dom0 OSes. Howerver, I hope that the LIGHT >>>> architecture of Luvalley could be kept. Maybe it is useful to patch >>>> dom0 FreeBSD kernel (especially for interrupt handling), but it should >>>> not be very complex. Part of the code comes from KVM, and I suggest to >>>> keep flying with KVM to make sure that guest VMs work well. >>> >>> I believe that if serious effort were to be put forward by the FreeBSD >>> developers to further develop the code, the result would need to be >>> GPL and Linux free (or VERY close to it). This is an area of >>> contention within the FreeBSD developer and user community, so it >>> would need to be addressed. As the developer of Luvalley, do you have >>> the ability to re-license the code using a BSD license? >>> >>> Are there too many technical issues with the code to do this? Juergen >>> mentioned that bits of the code are based on (or pulled directly >>> from?) Linux KVM. That probably wouldn't fly here... >>> >>>> Luvalley does boot and run on bare hardware. But it does not taint >>>> dom0 FreeBSD. Although the `non-root' mode dom0 FreeBSD kernel has >>>> direct access to BIOS and hardware, Luvalley tries hard to coordinate >>>> with it. For example, Luvalley traps the BIOS calls from the FreeBSD >>>> kernel to report the modified E820 table. Another example is that >>>> Luvalley uses NMI as the IPI interrupt to avoid conflict with BSD >>>> kernel. And I also believe that simple patches could work if some >>>> corners of FreeBSD kernel are tainted. >>>> >>>> Regards, and looking forward to the following news ... >>>> >>>> Xiaodong >>> >>> As am I... >>> >>> Thanks for chiming in Xiaodong! >> >> Actually with `tainting' the FreeBSD kernel I meant causing it to be >> affected by the gpl and its requirements. So if someone were to ship >> e.g. an appliance that uses Luvalley and a modified FreeBSD kernel he >> would only have to provide sourcecode of Luvalley and the userland >> Luvalley version of qemu-kvm, not of his FreeBSD kernel modifications, >> or of other (non-gpl) userland apps for that matter. >> >> But again, IANAL. :) >> >> Cheers, >> Juergen (also hoping Luvalley will have a future...) >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-emulation > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-emulation-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 02:51:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912411065670 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:51:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADC28FC08 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16so18465524fxm.13 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:51:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=BOySdvP6DBSTZK3TvSbifflZRw6j44WryhWGewe94ps=; b=czR20TkhpZBTmRlF9YSFZeryI/53jnq22Zgej+6Jo1Xg8Ow0iYZlh+gNgXiNhJoR6b KRTD0Y9SqW4PFyKZtpgAKJQ3781URWq8E3XV2ReYyFW53qJmFQj4ZjczLDWbF5fyQkZe F8M6FJlkuVMqkSkhW6GZ3hPQVH44FChVYjzXM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=haAT7zUVC4yc6G0/8OX/XHV5DLoMF984e1RqvYq9L4Sh/MOHchTVmM+OQrCFZ0LT6c OJtflX4lgm/baHKi4AYJqQqxhIbnqrJRDUzwmy/V7OykEVhHmzDzs4IH+xSIfeWeMvAN GU5L3TCx0ze1lG3YluenJkNDzNKUb9/m9LuFE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.97.78 with SMTP id k14mr2293210fan.89.1294627904026; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.114.4 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:51:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:51:43 -0600 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Ted Mittelstaedt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:51:45 -0000 On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > The practical reality of it is I can go out and buy a brand new, super-fast > computer and run FreeBSD 8 on it then VirtualBox on that, > then my guest OS's under VirtualBox - and get the same performance > as a bare-metal hypervisor like ESXi or Luvalley on older hardware. > And, with the FreeBSD/VirtualBox way, I get access to a far wider array > of hardware including disk RAID hardware. > Now days, there is very little, if any difference in guest speed(cpu based operations) in either type 1 or 2 hypervisors. Both types basically let the code run directly on the cpu, except they aren't allowed to touch ring 0. I was having a great of difficulty a few months ago with virtualization debian host I had set up. One of the Windows guests saw some high peak in network traffic which caused various issues which the virtio drivers didn't resolve. With it being a file server among other things, the flakiness had to be resolved. The physical box was a recent Dell Xeon with pair of broadcom and intel nics and the orginal hypervisor I used was KVM. The one in Debian's repository at the time was somewhat old, but that's what the client originally requested. Since this setup didn't work, I moved it over to the current proprietary version of Virtualbox which did better, but not satifactory because issues were still present. Finally, I moved it to Xen 4 because I knew it had pci-pass-through support and those broadcoms were sitting there doing nothing. The pci-pass-through of the broadcoms to the Windows guest works great. I haven't had another problem with the box. So the point of my story is that I think a modern KVM is just as fast and featureful as Xen since they both have pci-pass-through and you should expect the same(roughly) performance on your guests withever recent hypervisor you choose. Virtualbox is fast too, maybe even a bit faster than KVM but until it gets pci-pass-through it won't be as feature complete as the others. I think the luvalley approach is quite innovative and interesting, but honestly the main reason for my inquiry into it is that IMO it's only a matter of time till Oracle decides they need to make money from Vbox, and I don't want to see FreeBSD lose this technology which has been such a boon for me and many others. kqemu is only good for so much ;) -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 05:11:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05B81065675 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:11:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA3F28FC1E for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:11:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0A5BYdY090002; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:11:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Message-ID: <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:11:32 -0800 From: Ted Mittelstaedt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Vande More References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:11:36 -0000 On 1/9/2011 6:51 PM, Adam Vande More wrote: > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt > wrote: > > The practical reality of it is I can go out and buy a brand new, > super-fast computer and run FreeBSD 8 on it then VirtualBox on that, > then my guest OS's under VirtualBox - and get the same performance > as a bare-metal hypervisor like ESXi or Luvalley on older hardware. > And, with the FreeBSD/VirtualBox way, I get access to a far wider array > of hardware including disk RAID hardware. > > > Now days, there is very little, if any difference in guest speed(cpu > based operations) in either type 1 or 2 hypervisors. Both types > basically let the code run directly on the cpu, except they aren't > allowed to touch ring 0. I was having a great of difficulty a few > months ago with virtualization debian host I had set up. One of the > Windows guests saw some high peak in network traffic which caused > various issues which the virtio drivers didn't resolve. With it being a > file server among other things, the flakiness had to be resolved. The > physical box was a recent Dell Xeon with pair of broadcom and intel nics > and the orginal hypervisor I used was KVM. The one in Debian's > repository at the time was somewhat old, but that's what the client > originally requested. Since this setup didn't work, I moved it over to > the current proprietary version of Virtualbox which did better, but not > satifactory because issues were still present. Finally, I moved it to > Xen 4 because I knew it had pci-pass-through support and those broadcoms > were sitting there doing nothing. The pci-pass-through of the broadcoms > to the Windows guest works great. I haven't had another problem with > the box. > > So the point of my story is that I think a modern KVM is just as fast > and featureful as Xen since they both have pci-pass-through and you > should expect the same(roughly) performance on your guests withever > recent hypervisor you choose. Virtualbox is fast too, maybe even a bit > faster than KVM but until it gets pci-pass-through it won't be as > feature complete as the others. > > I think the luvalley approach is quite innovative and interesting, but > honestly the main reason for my inquiry into it is that IMO it's only a > matter of time till Oracle decides they need to make money from Vbox, > and I don't want to see FreeBSD lose this technology which has been such > a boon for me and many others. kqemu is only good for so much ;) > Unless Microsoft makes Hyper-V a cost item, this won't happen. The situation is like the Firefox/Internet Explorer Chinese finger trap. And VirtualBox is under the same dual GPL/proprietary licensing setup that Mysql and that Qt uses so even if Oracle stopped development on the OSE edition, some other group would pick it up. Ted From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 05:27:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8317C106564A for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:27:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B46E8FC08 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:27:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16so18530473fxm.13 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:27:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=pz+G3GDhn5XyobkU/B0e+49AfN/zJmemohrMEPXk8dI=; b=Y7RJC1822WjUAsRVXq6yRzRhyQrlUZaOUnfHEZ10oySQgXBEH/uxQQT55iSmXTpbRh Ym80e5/KPtOOcwK1KHN8jvmY73OCi5xa3T1MAOFCGIDRD+Z4CgvaGRvtFYPRgfJ72HUh 7413+4TPc6LR5V6+V09mzk36PfY5ZiKKkJ/D4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=GiwN8Zh8Xvy21c0VBCfXz02tGIAEO3XKZQ2ad8dtIx43/4p1YaQOlYqQXVm4nH2Hg6 QMwLR9AjBW1/zAnbPIKxrLj/vwMtaHi/PBgnQs2VrSdYz+wx+LVKpRZyXmuf31e8OyBH /Wi+wjNz2pKsfIFBCiKCD/yWi7mynP5IdEj/k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.116.1 with SMTP id k1mr368960faq.51.1294637224973; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.114.4 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:27:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:27:04 -0600 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Ted Mittelstaedt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 05:27:06 -0000 On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Unless Microsoft makes Hyper-V a cost item, this won't happen. The > situation is like the Firefox/Internet Explorer Chinese finger trap. > Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but hyper-V is already a cost item. If you want to run more than 1 guest on Server 2008 r2, pay up. Actually their cost model is quite a bit more complex than that, and under certain conditions unlimited VM's can be run without purchasing more hyper-v guest licenses, but it can be a frickin maze trying to figure it out. I considered that hypervisor when doing the install since it was primarily the Windows guests that needed the performance, but I quit once I ran into all the ways they make you pay. > And VirtualBox is under the same dual GPL/proprietary licensing setup > that Mysql and that Qt uses so even if Oracle stopped development on the > OSE edition, some other group would pick it up. > Well that would remain to be seen. I doubt it's much of a sure thing because the linux community as a whole seems pretty infatuated with KVM(and for good reason, it a nice hypervisor), and if even if there was a fork it wouldn't have near the resources it does now. One of Virtualbox's great features right now is it's superior documentation(Xen I'm looking at you) and it's rapid development. A fork wouldn't replace that, at least for some time. -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 06:11:53 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93736106566B for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:11:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from decke@bluelife.at) Received: from groupware.itac.at (groupware.itac.at [91.205.172.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2183F8FC18 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:11:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [46.74.88.234] (46.74.88.234) by groupware.itac.at (Axigen) with (CAMELLIA256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPSA id 1EE5FF; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:12:25 +0100 From: Bernhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=F6hlich?= To: Adam Vande More , Ted Mittelstaedt X-Mailer: Modest 3.2 References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-ID: <1294639887.4466.1.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:11:28 +0100 Message-Id: <1294639888.4466.2.camel@Nokia-N900-42-11> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AxigenSpam-Level: 1 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0204.4D2AA327.0137,ss=1,fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bernhard =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fr=F6hlich?= List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:11:53 -0000 ----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung ----- > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt > wrote: > So the point of my story is that I think a modern KVM is just as fast and > featureful as Xen since they both have pci-pass-through and you should > expect the same(roughly) performance on your guests withever recent > hypervisor you choose.  Virtualbox is fast too, maybe even a bit faster > than KVM but until it gets pci-pass-through it won't be as feature > complete as the others. The VirtualBox developers currently work on pci passthru support. Main pieces of code have just been committed after their 4.0 branch has been created. So we will hopefully see that with 4.1.0 but don't know yet if that will also work on FreeBSD. -- Bernhard Fröhlich http://www.bluelife.at/ From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 07:17:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC8B106566C for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:17:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B278FC16 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:17:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0A7H53J090391; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:17:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Message-ID: <4D2AB270.2070109@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 23:17:04 -0800 From: Ted Mittelstaedt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Vande More References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:17:07 -0000 On 1/9/2011 9:27 PM, Adam Vande More wrote: > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt > wrote: > > Unless Microsoft makes Hyper-V a cost item, this won't happen. The > situation is like the Firefox/Internet Explorer Chinese finger trap. > > > Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but hyper-V is already a cost > item. If you want to run more than 1 guest on Server 2008 r2, pay up. That's only if you run the hyper-v that is included in server 2008 R2 I'm talking about the other version of hyper-v, the free one, that includes Server 2008 that you can download here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=48359dd2-1c3d-4506-ae0a-232d0314ccf6&displaylang=en the so-called 'bare metal' hyper-v > Actually their cost model is quite a bit more complex than that, and > under certain conditions unlimited VM's can be run without purchasing > more hyper-v guest licenses, but it can be a frickin maze trying to > figure it out. No. Only if your trying to take advantage of the cost discounts of running microsoft guests under the hyper-v in the server 2008 R2 is it a maze - and you can run the microsoft calculator to figure that out: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-calculators.aspx basically what it boils down to is the free version of hyper-v that you can download and that includes server 2008, disallows you from running services on the hypervisor OS itself, and requires you to license each guest individually. if you have a lot of windows guests then of course it pays to pay the couple grand for the full server 2008 R2 and use the hyper-v in that, because if you go that way, you get a cost break if all your running is a bunch of windows guests. That's what the maze is. But if you use the free hyper-v then the cost model is exactly the same as if you use virtualbox on FreeBSD or xen or ESX - there is no price break for buying a bunch of windows os licenses to run under those hypervisors. There is some other stuff missing from the free hyper-v, but it's not really important. The free hyper-v includes the go-fast synthetic devices that hook into the newer Windows 7 and server 2008 guests and that is the important thing. And who cares if you can't use your hypervisor as a fileserver or some nonsense - you can't do that with ESXi either. There's a comparison of them here: http://www.virtualizationpractice.com/blog/?p=3782 I considered that hypervisor when doing the install > since it was primarily the Windows guests that needed the performance, > but I quit once I ran into all the ways they make you pay. > Someone just gave you bad data, Adam. > And VirtualBox is under the same dual GPL/proprietary licensing setup > that Mysql and that Qt uses so even if Oracle stopped development on the > OSE edition, some other group would pick it up. > > > Well that would remain to be seen. I doubt it's much of a sure thing > because the linux community as a whole seems pretty infatuated with > KVM(and for good reason, it a nice hypervisor), and if even if there was > a fork it wouldn't have near the resources it does now. It is a sure thing. Seriously. The emulated machine virtualization isn't really commercially that interesting. Seriously! Oracle makes plenty of money selling support and commercial versions of VirtualBox that have the extra go-fast storage code in them such as the one included with Oracle VDI. One of > Virtualbox's great features right now is it's superior documentation(Xen > I'm looking at you) and it's rapid development. Most of the development going on with VirtualBox seems to be loading the commercial version down with more management crap. I've posted before on the emulated sio0 problem and there's little interest in fixing that. VirtualBox's main claim to fame is under FreeBSD it is stable. I've had both Windows XP and FreeBSD guests running for months with no crash. That makes it greatly suitable for production work. But the FreeBSD kernel XEN domU work is I think the most interesting, although it's not yet production quality. Ted A fork wouldn't replace > that, at least for some time. > > -- > Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 08:15:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96FE0106564A for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:15:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8AF8FC18 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:15:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16so18605373fxm.13 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:15:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=b5hllJyK1Ejrdj8YZG+80jakEbv7sEKbx+h1wAoMJm0=; b=hNltLET/UXQQP8FHs7jIRxRR2rlafcLaa5L0H5lwFLvvlxojMJ7ZJvlllw1Jm6zMf1 8DzXmhJqqAq7+Wc6JUyZuvXibm6fCoA+fzsQKFWL3TUsF3U537qMOIVDxPST9QBhOqGd g3O0LEcgCVzDymEfobiBS6xAIKSvAh+H4hjoY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=L0fIRdyW4T/NlEV9g2q4YJULTn+PfDffeld05CmVM8qcTzMQbwMxCSRohFsR/c6B3A V+2KPqTsJMp3J8+LuWk0VjB3m97DC05qKvn5i3TFdDf7EWKG83aJdg0I+Ys67dGOsBJT +FL++hbWroKJHHGI3ufQJFMoi+D1c4O2wtyFY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.85.204 with SMTP id p12mr3864763fal.146.1294647331983; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.114.4 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 00:15:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D2AB270.2070109@mittelstaedt.us> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2AB270.2070109@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 02:15:31 -0600 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Ted Mittelstaedt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:15:33 -0000 On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > Someone just gave you bad data, Adam. No that is incorrect. I got my data from MS when I tried to check it out. Our confusion I think is because we are talking about different products. I wasn't aware of the stand-alone free version of hyper-v server, thanks for the pointer. The Server 2008 Standard Edition version of Windows comes with a license to run a single VM. If you can follow the maze and find offical documentation of this, you've got farther than me, but here's a third party link indicating the situation. http://www.netometer.com/video/tutorials/microsoft-hyper-v-server-2008/ > It is a sure thing. Seriously. The emulated machine virtualization > isn't really commercially that interesting. Seriously! Oracle > makes plenty of money selling support and commercial versions of > VirtualBox that have the extra go-fast storage code in them such > as the one included with Oracle VDI. Are you talking about the guest additions or whatever Oracle calls them now? That doesn't necessarily speed up the VM, it just allows things like clock synchronization, SMB shares, VRPD, page fusion, and USB passthrough. As far as I know, while they are released under PUEL license you can't even buy them so it's hard to see how Oracle is raking in the money there. I see there is a blurb on their site about contacting Oracle for enterprise rollouts. I think as soon as they figure out how they can bill they will. At one point, Virtualbox was going to setup a "cloud" service that you could roll out images too and I think that's now defuct so another lost revenue stream. That actually would have been really nice, I would have used that one. > VirtualBox's main claim to fame is under FreeBSD it is stable. I've had > both Windows XP and FreeBSD guests running for months with no crash. That > makes it greatly suitable for production work. > Agreed, it's been rock solid for me even under periods of heavy use. -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 09:31:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88312106564A for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:31:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476C68FC16 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:31:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) by mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0A9V1rT090817; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:31:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@mittelstaedt.us) Message-ID: <4D2AD1D4.4080003@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 01:31:00 -0800 From: Ted Mittelstaedt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Adam Vande More References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2AB270.2070109@mittelstaedt.us> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:31:03 -0000 On 1/10/2011 12:15 AM, Adam Vande More wrote: > On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt > wrote: > > Someone just gave you bad data, Adam. > > > No that is incorrect. I got my data from MS when I tried to check it > out. The second you say "got my data from MS" you know it's bad data. ;-) Our confusion I think is because we are talking about different > products. I wasn't aware of the stand-alone free version of hyper-v > server, thanks for the pointer. The Server 2008 Standard Edition > version of Windows comes with a license to run a single VM. > Check out the link I put in the last post. Hyper-v on the standalone product is the same thing as hyper-v included with Server 2008 R2, it is just bundled and positioned differently. Yes you are correct about the included license to run a single VM with 2008 R2 Server but that is because the only people who buy 2008 Server R2 so they can run Hyper-V are people who are running 20-50 guest instances of Windows 7 or something like that. And they do this because it's cheaper to license multiple windows guest OS's under 2008 R2 Hyper-V than to buy 50 individual licenses and run them under the standalone hyper-v product. (or under virtualbox or xen or esx, etc.) > If you can follow the maze and find offical documentation of this, > you've got farther than me, but here's a third party link indicating the > situation. > > http://www.netometer.com/video/tutorials/microsoft-hyper-v-server-2008/ > That just covers installing the free downloadable hyper-v it only does a bit of handwaving in the first paragraph about the licensing. And the fact it's a video ought to immediately scream "incompetent" If the author really wanted to show the situation he would install the actual server 2008 R2, turn on the hyper-v in it, and then install the free hyper-v on another system and demonstrate both of them side to side. But of course he doesn't because he's just a guy with a webcam and some spare time and doesn't have $2500 to fork over to buy the real server 2008 product. By the way you really run a risk mentioning "product" and "microsoft" in the same paragraph. Microsoft figured out with software what General Motors figured out with the A-body, you can make a single vehicle and badge it differently, then tell people you got a "dozen different products, you got chevrolet, buick, olds, etc." when in reality it's the same car, different nameplates. Microsoft does this, they take a single product and bundle it a dozen different ways, then claim they have different products. For example, Small Business Server is just regular Server + exchange and a fancy gui. Free Hyper-V is just hyper-v with server 2008 included, and Server 2008 is just server 2008 with hyper-v included. Same product, different gui and prices to fool the public. > It is a sure thing. Seriously. The emulated machine virtualization > isn't really commercially that interesting. Seriously! Oracle > makes plenty of money selling support and commercial versions of > VirtualBox that have the extra go-fast storage code in them such > as the one included with Oracle VDI. > > > Are you talking about the guest additions or whatever Oracle calls them > now? No That doesn't necessarily speed up the VM, it just allows things > like clock synchronization, SMB shares, VRPD, page fusion, and USB > passthrough. As far as I know, while they are released under PUEL > license you can't even buy them so it's hard to see how Oracle is raking > in the money there. I see there is a blurb on their site about > contacting Oracle for enterprise rollouts. I think as soon as they > figure out how they can bill they will. I am talking about Oracle-VDI which is a commercial product oracle sells it is kind of a front end to hypervisors, and it includes virtualbox with basically a bunch of software that allows guests to bypass the emulation when accessing the storage system (SANs probably) Yes, they bill for this. Oracle is interested in large enterprise customers like big corps and government. So is Microsoft. The software that those two sell to those organizations is an entirely different universe. This is not to say that you cannot organize a server farm on FreeBSD to run the likes of FaceBook or Hotmail, you can. And in fact FreeBSD once was used for Hotmail. However, to do this you have to know what you are doing. And Oracle and Microsoft don't want to sell to customers who know what they are doing. They want to sell to customers who don't know diddly shit about IT infrastructure and aren't interested in learning, because they are already too busy running whatever thing it is that generates money for them. They want customers that say 'here is what I need, if you can do it then slap a bill down in front of me and I'll write you a check and in 3 months it better work the way I said I want it to work or my lawyers are gonna eat you for breakfast' You see, you didn't even go about it with Microsoft the correct way, at least, not from their point of view. What you should have done when you were checking out Hyper-v is call them and have them refer you to the nearest Microsoft Certified Partner in your city who you could have called and then $150 later in consulting fees you would have the same information that I just gave you here for free. ;-) > At one point, Virtualbox was > going to setup a "cloud" service that you could roll out images too and > I think that's now defuct so another lost revenue stream. That actually > would have been really nice, I would have used that one. > Well, you see hyper-v killed that. The reason why is that only the "retail" Windows images have active WPA in them and will call for activation if they boot up. if your hypervisor is VirtualBox why then that's exactly what you want - because that's the only way you can license Windows under VirtualBox, is on a per-guest basis. But under Hyper-V licensing you want all those images to have the site license product key embedded in them so they can be licensed under the special hyper-v guest OS license on Server 2008 Hyper-v that makes them cheaper. You can't upload and distribute those types of images because of the serial number already being in them. So it's no wonder that such a service never got anywhere. But for the other operating systems there's plenty of people who distribute virtual images. Even illegal ones. For example there's an image of MacOS X floating around that has been modded to boot up MacOS under virtualization. It's just the thing to piss-off your neighborhood Macaphobe when you flip the lid open on your $500 HP laptop and show him the same screen and OS he gets when he fires up his $2500 powerbook. ;-) Ted > VirtualBox's main claim to fame is under FreeBSD it is stable. I've had > both Windows XP and FreeBSD guests running for months with no crash. > That makes it greatly suitable for production work. > > > Agreed, it's been rock solid for me even under periods of heavy use. > > -- > Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 11:07:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D2A10656BB for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE958FC1D for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0AB70nQ001737 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:00 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p0AB70ZW001735 for freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:00 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:00 GMT Message-Id: <201101101107.p0AB70ZW001735@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:07:01 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/153243 emulation [ibcs2] Seg fault whne running COFF binary using iBCS2 o ports/151714 emulation print/acroread9 not usable due to lack of support in t a kern/150186 emulation [parallels] [panic] Parallels Desktop: CDROM disconnec o kern/149168 emulation [linux] [patch] Linux sendmsg / recvmsg / etc fixes fo o ports/148097 emulation [patch] suggested addition to linux_base-* packages to o ports/148096 emulation emulators/linux_base-* can not be built from ports on o kern/147793 emulation [vmware] [panic] cdrom handling, panic, possible race o kern/146237 emulation [linux] Linux binaries not reading directories mounted o kern/145024 emulation [linux] [panic] kernel crash by linux.ko module with n f kern/144763 emulation [linux] [panic] Kernel panic when start linux binaries o ports/142837 emulation [patch] emulators/linux_base-* packages fails to insta o kern/140156 emulation [linux] cdparanoia fails to read drive data f kern/138944 emulation [parallels] [regression] Parallels no longer works in o kern/138880 emulation [linux] munmap segfaults after linux_mmap2 stresstest f ports/137332 emulation add caution messages to some adobe products s ports/136321 emulation x11-toolkits/linux-pango: please update linux based po o ports/135337 emulation [PATCH] emulators/linux_base-f10: incorrect bash usage s kern/133144 emulation [linux] linuxulator 2.6 crashes with nvidias libGL.so. o kern/129169 emulation [linux] [patch] Linux Emulation ENOTCONN error using n o kern/126232 emulation [linux] Linux ioctl TCGETS (0x5401) always fails f kern/99068 emulation [linux] [patch] Linux emulator crashed by java, when c o kern/86619 emulation [linux] linux emulator interacts oddly with cp a kern/72920 emulation [linux]: path "prefixing" is not done on unix domain s o kern/41543 emulation [patch] [request] easier wine/w23 support o kern/39201 emulation [linux] [patch] ptrace(2) and rfork(RFLINUXTHPN) confu o kern/36952 emulation [patch] [linux] ldd(1) command of linux does not work o kern/21463 emulation [linux] Linux compatability mode should not allow setu o kern/11165 emulation [ibcs2] IBCS2 doesn't work correctly with PID_MAX 9999 28 problems total. From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:26:54 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADB9F1065672 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:26:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06198FC13 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:26:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16so19143875fxm.13 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:26:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0NYtIO0+Z13PwpzV7B1OqUBAJc4zA3nKmVHm2IQSFrw=; b=plcXgOS9vwk+3luPtDAGq3/4qRq26Jpfc5h71mKFi91YkwBz6HbEd6iwVR0xNBUJod FO9QiGA4N+w4T0hsBj4VGBNLh/sCXPfpEarv0nzAyAAA89QJXeTqid+ADChdX3uPESjX 3FP0Z8xi5+0Xb10ABrq3GL80oUFkTwclfKQU0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=jbxKUqBaLMNzC66yfE3Y7vBvzvaWsoW1enMJ1v3rmwS8tlYkInSl/OBcHGzBTSDxGu cgf419joz/eQXpnf9YUG11wa9BzEBMJtEHoHd1u2o3PjqpL3vJR582lgBpKQBLKZHKud cWwVtEZyPsFrOJOOWVWNZwsC8Q+Zccst67BpQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.85.204 with SMTP id p12mr4456239fal.146.1294684010802; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.114.4 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4D2AD1D4.4080003@mittelstaedt.us> References: <20100418191752.GA72730@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2A9504.7070109@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2AB270.2070109@mittelstaedt.us> <4D2AD1D4.4080003@mittelstaedt.us> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 12:26:49 -0600 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Ted Mittelstaedt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:26:54 -0000 On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:31 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > On 1/10/2011 12:15 AM, Adam Vande More wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt > > wrote: >> >> Someone just gave you bad data, Adam. >> >> >> No that is incorrect. I got my data from MS when I tried to check it >> out. >> > > The second you say "got my data from MS" you know it's bad data. ;-) > > > Our confusion I think is because we are talking about different > >> products. I wasn't aware of the stand-alone free version of hyper-v >> server, thanks for the pointer. The Server 2008 Standard Edition >> version of Windows comes with a license to run a single VM. >> >> > Check out the link I put in the last post. Hyper-v on the standalone > product is the same thing as hyper-v included with Server 2008 R2, it > is just bundled and positioned differently. Yes you are correct about > the included license to run a single VM with 2008 R2 Server but that > is because the only people who buy 2008 Server R2 so they can run > Hyper-V are people who are running 20-50 guest instances of Windows 7 > or something like that. And they do this because it's cheaper to > license multiple windows guest OS's under 2008 R2 Hyper-V than to > buy 50 individual licenses and run them under the standalone hyper-v > product. (or under virtualbox or xen or esx, etc.) > > > If you can follow the maze and find offical documentation of this, >> you've got farther than me, but here's a third party link indicating the >> situation. >> >> http://www.netometer.com/video/tutorials/microsoft-hyper-v-server-2008/ >> >> > That just covers installing the free downloadable hyper-v it only does > a bit of handwaving in the first paragraph about the licensing. And the > fact it's a video ought to immediately scream "incompetent" > > If the author really wanted to show the situation he would install > the actual server 2008 R2, turn on the hyper-v in it, and then > install the free hyper-v on another system and demonstrate both of them > side to side. But of course he doesn't because he's just a guy with a > webcam and some spare time and doesn't have $2500 to fork over > to buy the real server 2008 product. > > By the way you really run a risk mentioning "product" and "microsoft" > in the same paragraph. Microsoft figured out with software what General > Motors figured out with the A-body, you can make a single vehicle and > badge it differently, then tell people you got a "dozen different products, > you got chevrolet, buick, olds, etc." when in reality it's > the same car, different nameplates. Microsoft does this, they take > a single product and bundle it a dozen different ways, then claim > they have different products. > > For example, Small Business Server is just regular Server + exchange > and a fancy gui. Free Hyper-V is just hyper-v with server 2008 > included, and Server 2008 is just server 2008 with hyper-v included. > Same product, different gui and prices to fool the public. > > > It is a sure thing. Seriously. The emulated machine virtualization >> isn't really commercially that interesting. Seriously! Oracle >> makes plenty of money selling support and commercial versions of >> VirtualBox that have the extra go-fast storage code in them such >> as the one included with Oracle VDI. >> >> >> Are you talking about the guest additions or whatever Oracle calls them >> now? >> > > No > > > That doesn't necessarily speed up the VM, it just allows things > >> like clock synchronization, SMB shares, VRPD, page fusion, and USB >> passthrough. As far as I know, while they are released under PUEL >> license you can't even buy them so it's hard to see how Oracle is raking >> in the money there. I see there is a blurb on their site about >> contacting Oracle for enterprise rollouts. I think as soon as they >> figure out how they can bill they will. >> > > I am talking about Oracle-VDI which is a commercial product oracle sells > it is kind of a front end to hypervisors, and it includes virtualbox > with basically a bunch of software that allows guests to bypass the > emulation when accessing the storage system (SANs probably) Yes, they > bill for this. > > Oracle is interested in large enterprise customers like big corps and > government. So is Microsoft. The software that those two sell to > those organizations is an entirely different universe. > > This is not to say that you cannot organize a server farm on FreeBSD > to run the likes of FaceBook or Hotmail, you can. And in fact FreeBSD > once was used for Hotmail. However, to do this you have to know what > you are doing. And Oracle and Microsoft don't want to sell to customers > who know what they are doing. They want to sell to customers who don't > know diddly shit about IT infrastructure and aren't interested in learning, > because they are already too busy running whatever thing it is > that generates money for them. They want customers that say 'here is > what I need, if you can do it then slap a bill down in front of me > and I'll write you a check and in 3 months it better work the way > I said I want it to work or my lawyers are gonna eat you for breakfast' > > You see, you didn't even go about it with Microsoft the correct way, > at least, not from their point of view. What you should have done > when you were checking out Hyper-v is call them and have them > refer you to the nearest Microsoft Certified Partner in your city > who you could have called and then $150 later in consulting fees > you would have the same information that I just gave you here for > free. ;-) > > > At one point, Virtualbox was >> going to setup a "cloud" service that you could roll out images too and >> I think that's now defuct so another lost revenue stream. That actually >> would have been really nice, I would have used that one. >> >> > Well, you see hyper-v killed that. The reason why is that only the > "retail" Windows images have active WPA in them and will call for > activation if they boot up. if your hypervisor is VirtualBox why > then that's exactly what you want - because that's the only way > you can license Windows under VirtualBox, is on a per-guest > basis. > > But under Hyper-V licensing you want all those images to have the > site license product key embedded in them so they can be licensed > under the special hyper-v guest OS license on Server 2008 Hyper-v > that makes them cheaper. You can't upload and distribute those types of > images because of the serial number already being in them. So it's no > wonder that such a service never got anywhere. > > But for the other operating systems there's plenty of people > who distribute virtual images. Even illegal ones. For example > there's an image of MacOS X floating around that has been modded > to boot up MacOS under virtualization. It's just the thing to > piss-off your neighborhood Macaphobe when you flip the lid open > on your $500 HP laptop and show him the same screen and OS he > gets when he fires up his $2500 powerbook. ;-) > > Ted > > > > VirtualBox's main claim to fame is under FreeBSD it is stable. I've >> had >> both Windows XP and FreeBSD guests running for months with no crash. >> That makes it greatly suitable for production work. >> >> >> Agreed, it's been rock solid for me even under periods of heavy use. >> >> -- >> Adam Vande More >> > > -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 10 18:27:59 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB401065673 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F348FC08 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:27:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 219611E002A8; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:27:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0AIJTQW061099; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:19:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p0AIJSOR061098; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:19:28 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 19:19:28 +0100 To: Ted Mittelstaedt Message-ID: <20110110181928.GA60704@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20110107194516.GA28544@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110107213643.GA32645@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110109110022.GA10789@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D2A55F4.6010704@mittelstaedt.us> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Testing Luvalley with FreeBSD as dom0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:27:59 -0000 On Sun, Jan 09, 2011 at 04:42:28PM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > > I think the Luvalley architecture is fascinating but one of the larger > problems that has always been faced by the Open Source Community has > been lack of device driver support for all of the many peripherals and > motherboards and bits of hardware out there. > > This is the problem with "bare metal" hypervisors, we see exactly the > same problem with commercial use of the ESXi "bare metal" hypervisor - > limited device driver support - and the worst, being disk driver > support. ESXi, being based on Linux, has no > good support for SATA-raid (ie: poor mans pseudo RAID 0 ) FreeBSD > by contrast, has excellent support, far better than Linux. > > The practical reality of it is I can go out and buy a brand new, > super-fast computer and run FreeBSD 8 on it then VirtualBox on that, > then my guest OS's under VirtualBox - and get the same performance > as a bare-metal hypervisor like ESXi or Luvalley on older hardware. > And, with the FreeBSD/VirtualBox way, I get access to a far wider array > of hardware including disk RAID hardware. > > Thus, I have to say that I feel the bare-metal hypervisor approach > is a dead-end. Yes, I realize ESX has made a lot of money with this > approach but the newest hardware coming on the scene is incredibly > fast. Even if you put pseudo raid support into luvalley, your never > going to get the kind of hardware support that you can get from > an operating system that is used for far many more things than > just virtualization. Actually I don't think Luvalley even has disk drivers, it relies on (usually) grub for booting (which in turn relies on bios support for the boot disk(s)), and once the dom0 kernel is booted (i.e. Linux or FreeBSD), that one talks to the controller(s) directly. So only the domU (guest) kernels talk to virtualized hardware, and that hardware is emulated by the Luvalley version of qemu-kvm (which uses the dom0 kernel's drivers to talk to the actual hardware.) Oh, I know of one `driver' in Luvalley tho, the one for the serial port that's used for debug output... Cheers, Juergen From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 08:57:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8159F106566B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:57:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe06.c2i.net [212.247.154.162]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127E88FC12 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:57:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uKwGHVgX/XpzFB6WQV71hE8vVR+wz8PlNBntNPh/OpQ= c=1 sm=1 a=4vW0rCAk17MA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=CL8lFSKtTFcA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:17 a=UAxoutJAh8-kMWsHnrEA:9 a=hseoWgufk9lwcqrPBXHe--iwBWgA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:117 Received: from [188.126.198.129] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe06.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.19) with ESMTPA id 72140784; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:43 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: "J.R. Oldroyd" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:46 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> In-Reply-To: <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> X-Face: +~\`s("[*|O,="7?X@L.elg*F"OA\I/3%^p8g?ab%RN'(; _IjlA: hGE..Ew, XAQ*o#\/M~SC=S1-f9{EzRfT'|Hhll5Q]ha5Bt-s|oTlKMusi:1e[wJl}kd}GR Z0adGx-x_0zGbZj'e(Y[(UNle~)8CQWXW@:DX+9)_YlB[tIccCPN$7/L' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:57:48 -0000 Hi, I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. --HPS Index: cuse4bsd_kmod.c =================================================================== --- cuse4bsd_kmod.c (revision 1700) +++ cuse4bsd_kmod.c (working copy) @@ -1689,3 +1689,49 @@ return (0); } + + +#include +#if defined (__amd64__) +#include +#include +#else +#include +#include +#endif + +#include +MODULE_DEPEND(cuse4bsd, linux, 1, 1, 1); + +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN 0x6f00 +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX 0x6fff + + +static linux_ioctl_function_t cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl; +static struct linux_ioctl_handler cuse4bsd_linux_handler = + {cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX}; + +SYSINIT (cuse4bsd_linux_register, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, + linux_ioctl_register_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); +SYSUNINIT(cuse4bsd_linux_unregister, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, + linux_ioctl_unregister_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); + +static int +cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct linux_ioctl_args *args) +{ + unsigned long cmd; + + /* swap the read/write bits, due to differences in bsd & linux ioctls*/ + cmd = (unsigned long)args->cmd; + if (cmd & (0x40 << 24)) { + cmd &= 0xffffff; + cmd |= (0x80 << 24); + } else if (cmd & (0x80 << 24)) { + cmd &= 0xffffff; + cmd |= (0x40 << 24); + } + args->cmd = (l_uint)cmd; + + /* Pass the ioctl off to our standard handler, now that its valid */ + return(ioctl(td, (struct ioctl_args *)args)); +} From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 12:12:32 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2A61065695 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244608FC25 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:12:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p57B3B1C7.dip.t-dialin.net [87.179.177.199]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 120A7844012; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:12:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (unknown [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C688E28B0; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:12:18 +0100 (CET) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p0BCBriX095767; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:11:53 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:11:53 +0100 Message-ID: <20110111131153.48321lqz8kxrsetc@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:11:53 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Hans Petter Selasky References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.4) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 120A7844012.A807B X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=2.474, required 6, autolearn=disabled, J_CHICKENPOX_43 0.60, J_CHICKENPOX_52 0.60, RDNS_NONE 1.27) X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamScore: ss X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1295352748.28226@Dl+Jyo7m2AleW6J2evAyVA X-EBL-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:12:32 -0000 Quoting Hans Petter Selasky (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:46 +0100): > Hi, > > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be From Andrew Gallatin (gallatin@)? > included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB > applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. Yes, but I would prefer the person who submitted it could test it before it is committed. Semi-OT: Are you sure the MODULE_DEPEND is not necessary for your module and should be included? Bye, Alexander. > --HPS > > Index: cuse4bsd_kmod.c > =================================================================== > --- cuse4bsd_kmod.c (revision 1700) > +++ cuse4bsd_kmod.c (working copy) > @@ -1689,3 +1689,49 @@ > > return (0); > } > + > + > +#include > +#if defined (__amd64__) > +#include > +#include > +#else > +#include > +#include > +#endif > + > +#include > +MODULE_DEPEND(cuse4bsd, linux, 1, 1, 1); > + > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN 0x6f00 > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX 0x6fff > + > + > +static linux_ioctl_function_t cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl; > +static struct linux_ioctl_handler cuse4bsd_linux_handler = > + {cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX}; > + > +SYSINIT (cuse4bsd_linux_register, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > + linux_ioctl_register_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > +SYSUNINIT(cuse4bsd_linux_unregister, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > + linux_ioctl_unregister_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > + > +static int > +cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct linux_ioctl_args *args) > +{ > + unsigned long cmd; > + > + /* swap the read/write bits, due to differences in bsd & linux ioctls*/ > + cmd = (unsigned long)args->cmd; > + if (cmd & (0x40 << 24)) { > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > + cmd |= (0x80 << 24); > + } else if (cmd & (0x80 << 24)) { > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > + cmd |= (0x40 << 24); > + } > + args->cmd = (l_uint)cmd; > + > + /* Pass the ioctl off to our standard handler, now that its valid */ > + return(ioctl(td, (struct ioctl_args *)args)); > +} > > -- Seems this guy showed up at a party, and all of his friends jumped for Joy. But she sidestepped, and they missed. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 12:19:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A6A1065670; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:19:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe07.c2i.net [212.247.154.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A378FC08; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:19:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=47jFoQlQiPaXYvJJRPLdRbboc2AFRw6czTf8DabKp4c= c=1 sm=1 a=4vW0rCAk17MA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CL8lFSKtTFcA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:17 a=8kQB0OdkAAAA:8 a=amRkz5gaQd-j6O2Y_mkA:9 a=P-Y9WNw2l90DsZERKSQIGpoiiA4A:4 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=9aOQ2cSd83gA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:117 Received: from [188.126.198.129] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe07.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.19) with ESMTPA id 72654993; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:19:24 +0100 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: Alexander Leidinger Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:19:28 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111131153.48321lqz8kxrsetc@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: <20110111131153.48321lqz8kxrsetc@webmail.leidinger.net> X-Face: +~\`s("[*|O,="7?X@L.elg*F"OA\I/3%^p8g?ab%RN'(; _IjlA: hGE..Ew, XAQ*o#\/M~SC=S1-f9{EzRfT'|Hhll5Q]ha5Bt-s|oTlKMusi:1e[wJl}kd}GR Z0adGx-x_0zGbZj'e(Y[(UNle~)8CQWXW@:DX+9)_YlB[tIccCPN$7/L' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201101111319.28219.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:19:28 -0000 On Tuesday 11 January 2011 13:11:53 Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting Hans Petter Selasky (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 > > 09:47:46 +0100): > > Hi, > > > > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be > > From Andrew Gallatin (gallatin@)? Yes, that is correct. > > > included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB > > applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. > > Yes, but I would prefer the person who submitted it could test it > before it is committed. > > Semi-OT: Are you sure the MODULE_DEPEND is not necessary for your > module and should be included? The patch is tested according to Andrew Gallatin, but as far as I understand it does not belong in cuse4bsd_kmod.c. It belongs in "sys/compat/linux/linux_ioctl.c". --HPS From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 12:37:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D9CD106566C; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:37:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20348FC14; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:37:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p57B3B1C7.dip.t-dialin.net [87.179.177.199]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30767844012; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:37:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (unknown [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212F428B3; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:37:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p0BCasYG001393; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:36:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:36:54 +0100 Message-ID: <20110111133654.183753dk3w69k9og@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:36:54 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Hans Petter Selasky References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111131153.48321lqz8kxrsetc@webmail.leidinger.net> <201101111319.28219.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201101111319.28219.hselasky@c2i.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.4) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 30767844012.A6B5A X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=1.874, required 6, autolearn=disabled, J_CHICKENPOX_43 0.60, RDNS_NONE 1.27) X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamScore: s X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1295354233.83304@Sl4HVMO5fS9FNzxtpiP36Q X-EBL-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:37:17 -0000 Quoting Hans Petter Selasky (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 13:19:28 +0100): > On Tuesday 11 January 2011 13:11:53 Alexander Leidinger wrote: >> Quoting Hans Petter Selasky (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 >> >> 09:47:46 +0100): >> > Hi, >> > >> > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be >> >> From Andrew Gallatin (gallatin@)? > > Yes, that is correct. I'll contact him, and I think he can commit this himself. Bye, Alexander. -- You auto buy now. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 14:59:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250B3106564A; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:59:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD1B98FC22; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:59:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pool-141-154-232-8.bos.east.verizon.net ([141.154.232.8] helo=homobox.opal.com) by mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PcfB0-0003MF-95; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:26:22 +0000 Received: from opal.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by homobox.opal.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0BEQFUN063166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:26:15 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from shibato.opal.com ([2001:5c0:1100:f103:221:63ff:fe5a:c9a7] helo=shibato.opal.com) with IPv6:587 by opal.com; 11 Jan 2011 09:26:15 -0500 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 141.154.232.8 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX18B28qZ/R6JW2r8Y8v6GAs+ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:26:09 -0500 From: "J.R. Oldroyd" To: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> In-Reply-To: <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.6 (GTK+ 2.20.1; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/YhisAVz+wRfmBxJsPoke_AO"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:59:20 -0000 --Sig_/YhisAVz+wRfmBxJsPoke_AO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:46 +0100, Hans Petter Selasky = wrote: > > Hi, >=20 > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be=20 > included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB=20 > applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. >=20 > --HPS >=20 > Index: cuse4bsd_kmod.c > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > --- cuse4bsd_kmod.c (revision 1700) > +++ cuse4bsd_kmod.c (working copy) > @@ -1689,3 +1689,49 @@ > =20 > return (0); > } > + > + > +#include > +#if defined (__amd64__) > +#include > +#include > +#else > +#include > +#include > +#endif > + > +#include > +MODULE_DEPEND(cuse4bsd, linux, 1, 1, 1); > + > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN 0x6f00 > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX 0x6fff > + > + > +static linux_ioctl_function_t cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl; > +static struct linux_ioctl_handler cuse4bsd_linux_handler =3D=20 > + {cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX}; > + > +SYSINIT (cuse4bsd_linux_register, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE,=20 > + linux_ioctl_register_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > +SYSUNINIT(cuse4bsd_linux_unregister, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE,=20 > + linux_ioctl_unregister_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > + > +static int > +cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct linux_ioctl_args *args) > +{ > + unsigned long cmd; > + > + /* swap the read/write bits, due to differences in bsd & linux ioctls*/ > + cmd =3D (unsigned long)args->cmd; > + if (cmd & (0x40 << 24)) { > + cmd &=3D 0xffffff; > + cmd |=3D (0x80 << 24); > + } else if (cmd & (0x80 << 24)) { > + cmd &=3D 0xffffff; > + cmd |=3D (0x40 << 24); > + } > + args->cmd =3D (l_uint)cmd; > + =20 > + /* Pass the ioctl off to our standard handler, now that its valid */ > + return(ioctl(td, (struct ioctl_args *)args)); > +} This patch merely flips the cmd bits. I'm not familiar with the Linux DVB ioctls... is it really the case that none of the data structures have 32/64-bit architecture dependent field sizes? Great if that's the case, but if not, we need to do data structure conversions here too, as we did for V4L. -jr --Sig_/YhisAVz+wRfmBxJsPoke_AO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk0saIIACgkQls33urr0k4nb5gCgo3c7uYK0K6p9dOTMPGq89skW SI4AoKZQg86SORlN9iskjoYl8oG09LHG =p6F8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/YhisAVz+wRfmBxJsPoke_AO-- From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 15:41:37 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A971065670; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 478DC8FC16; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p57B3B1C7.dip.t-dialin.net [87.179.177.199]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F4207844012; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:41:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (unknown [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2678228C9; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:41:30 +0100 (CET) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p0BFfEKt084419; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:41:14 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:41:14 +0100 Message-ID: <20110111164114.19105rvus8aj7jk8@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:41:14 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: "J.R. Oldroyd" References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> In-Reply-To: <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.4) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: F4207844012.A8BCF X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=1.274, required 6, autolearn=disabled, RDNS_NONE 1.27) X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamScore: s X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1295365294.41814@vm86KFd6CdRGpUlcxi9q8Q X-EBL-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:41:37 -0000 Quoting "J.R. Oldroyd" (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:26:09 -0500): > This patch merely flips the cmd bits. As Andrew is doing this on amd64 (and casting to a l_XXX type), it could be that he is flipping the data into the visible range and then cutting it down to 32 bit. > I'm not familiar with the Linux DVB ioctls... is it really the case > that none of the data structures have 32/64-bit architecture dependent > field sizes? Great if that's the case, but if not, we need to do > data structure conversions here too, as we did for V4L. I am already in the process of discussing this with Andrew. I do not think the details are important so far for emulation@, but if someone wants to participate in the discussion... Bye, Alexander. Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 15:42:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4AA7106566B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:42:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gallatin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF4C8FC1B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:42:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywp6 with SMTP id 6so8585629ywp.13 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:42:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GmIz+DK+IUG2zjk/SsKFK0688461cBFd7AdvW74ekY8=; b=exCoQgjBU8KIZDDqN7oU+oWjejG+zehTdWGc5sFYOtTDGm2uf6po7bwX/MxJluVdus VLHufeHnXTTx8VM6UxPZ9yrYt7YVyVGyvybAuSp2p8e9yZJE5dVzmpRz3g3IkEImg9bg 5l/LseoaugLrHxsXHBiKwl267oJNmH0ULmFbI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=s+/kfeogGqygIlTB4fzO/KRsPvUz9aRZxc5B7/yHUGvRNKo/g7S2F8yEIzHIMxhhvX r0wwLcH3Oz178g3AmtD5Vt5ux3usJGGIEyy4w6f2VSdJXsRSDoBA5LmmaIYCkRCVLJv1 lZPJbv75QTDIF2EePlyG5v13GWjv9LPtWks2I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.144.11 with SMTP id r11mr3583002and.24.1294759077329; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.248.15 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 07:17:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:17:57 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gallatin To: "J.R. Oldroyd" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:42:23 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:26 AM, J.R. Oldroyd wrote: > This patch merely flips the cmd bits. > > I'm not familiar with the Linux DVB ioctls... is it really the case > that none of the data structures have 32/64-bit architecture dependent > field sizes? =A0Great if that's the case, but if not, we need to do > data structure conversions here too, as we did for V4L. I looked for a compat_ioctl for DVB, but came up with nothing. From a 2.6.37 kernel: $ pwd /usr/src/kernels/linux-2.6.37/drivers/media $ find . -name '*.c' | xargs grep compat_ioctl ./video/v4l2-dev.c: .compat_ioctl =3D v4l2_compat_ioctl32, ./video/v4l2-compat-ioctl32.c: printk(KERN_INFO "compat_ioctl32: unexpected VIDIOC_FMT type %d\n", ./video/v4l2-compat-ioctl32.c: printk(KERN_INFO "compat_ioctl32: unexpected VIDIOC_FMT type %d\n", ./video/v4l2-compat-ioctl32.c:long v4l2_compat_ioctl32(struct file *file, unsigned int cmd, unsigned long arg) ./video/v4l2-compat-ioctl32.c: printk(KERN_WARNING "compat_ioctl32= : " ./video/v4l2-compat-ioctl32.c:EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(v4l2_compat_ioctl32); ./IR/ir-lirc-codec.c: .compat_ioctl =3D ir_lirc_ioctl, ./IR/lirc_dev.c: .compat_ioctl =3D lirc_dev_fop_ioctl, Also, the DVB ioctls I've looked at seem to be explictly sized (no "long" used, u32 or u64 everywhere). I tested the patch last night on amd64. I was able to successfully run ia32 linux azap, dvbtraffic and test_dvr utils to tune a channel, find the active PIDs, and record the stream to a file. Drew From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 18:41:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54C21065670; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:41:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C357B8FC0C; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 6172D1E00CCE; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:41:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0BIdb4u039413; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p0BIdbix039412; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 To: "\"J.R. Oldroyd\"" Message-ID: <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:41:25 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 09:26:09AM -0500, "J.R. Oldroyd" wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:46 +0100, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be > > included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB > > applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. > > > > --HPS > > > > Index: cuse4bsd_kmod.c > > =================================================================== > > --- cuse4bsd_kmod.c (revision 1700) > > +++ cuse4bsd_kmod.c (working copy) > > @@ -1689,3 +1689,49 @@ > > > > return (0); > > } > > + > > + > > +#include > > +#if defined (__amd64__) > > +#include > > +#include > > +#else > > +#include > > +#include > > +#endif > > + > > +#include > > +MODULE_DEPEND(cuse4bsd, linux, 1, 1, 1); > > + > > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN 0x6f00 > > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX 0x6fff > > + > > + > > +static linux_ioctl_function_t cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl; > > +static struct linux_ioctl_handler cuse4bsd_linux_handler = > > + {cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX}; > > + > > +SYSINIT (cuse4bsd_linux_register, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > > + linux_ioctl_register_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > > +SYSUNINIT(cuse4bsd_linux_unregister, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > > + linux_ioctl_unregister_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > > + > > +static int > > +cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct linux_ioctl_args *args) > > +{ > > + unsigned long cmd; > > + > > + /* swap the read/write bits, due to differences in bsd & linux ioctls*/ > > + cmd = (unsigned long)args->cmd; > > + if (cmd & (0x40 << 24)) { > > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > > + cmd |= (0x80 << 24); > > + } else if (cmd & (0x80 << 24)) { > > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > > + cmd |= (0x40 << 24); > > + } > > + args->cmd = (l_uint)cmd; > > + > > + /* Pass the ioctl off to our standard handler, now that its valid */ > > + return(ioctl(td, (struct ioctl_args *)args)); > > +} > > This patch merely flips the cmd bits. > > I'm not familiar with the Linux DVB ioctls... is it really the case > that none of the data structures have 32/64-bit architecture dependent > field sizes? Great if that's the case, but if not, we need to do > data structure conversions here too, as we did for V4L. Yes we do, but after looking at the headers a bit it looks like it'll only be needed for FE_SET_PROPERTY, FE_GET_PROPERTY (unless I was being blind again; the latter also needs to be fixed from _IOR to _IOW before passing it on as we also had to do in our version of /usr/local/include/linux/dvb/frontend.h - see this thread for details: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2010-April/010958.html ), and conversions would be needed for some other structs that I _think_ are only used with full-feature tuner cards with internal mpeg2 decoders which I'm pretty sure don't exist as usb versions anyway so in that case we probably can get away by just ignoring them for now. (Tho I'd say we should treat them as errors insted of passing them thru wrong, I'm talking about ones in osd.h and video.h.) And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also explain why the naive patch appeared to work: whatever app(s) were used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) HTH, Juergen From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 19:01:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8221065694 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31998FC2D for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:01:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 6172D1E00CCE; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:41:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0BIdb4u039413; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p0BIdbix039412; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:37 +0100 To: "\"J.R. Oldroyd\"" Message-ID: <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Matthias Apitz , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:01:03 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 09:26:09AM -0500, "J.R. Oldroyd" wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:47:46 +0100, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I've received the following patch for my cuse4bsd module. Could this be > > included in the kernel's linux.ko ? This patch allows for linux DVB > > applications running under FreeBSD linux emulation. > > > > --HPS > > > > Index: cuse4bsd_kmod.c > > =================================================================== > > --- cuse4bsd_kmod.c (revision 1700) > > +++ cuse4bsd_kmod.c (working copy) > > @@ -1689,3 +1689,49 @@ > > > > return (0); > > } > > + > > + > > +#include > > +#if defined (__amd64__) > > +#include > > +#include > > +#else > > +#include > > +#include > > +#endif > > + > > +#include > > +MODULE_DEPEND(cuse4bsd, linux, 1, 1, 1); > > + > > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN 0x6f00 > > +#define DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX 0x6fff > > + > > + > > +static linux_ioctl_function_t cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl; > > +static struct linux_ioctl_handler cuse4bsd_linux_handler = > > + {cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MIN, DVB_LINUX_IOCTL_MAX}; > > + > > +SYSINIT (cuse4bsd_linux_register, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > > + linux_ioctl_register_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > > +SYSUNINIT(cuse4bsd_linux_unregister, SI_SUB_KLD, SI_ORDER_MIDDLE, > > + linux_ioctl_unregister_handler, &cuse4bsd_linux_handler); > > + > > +static int > > +cuse4bsd_linux_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct linux_ioctl_args *args) > > +{ > > + unsigned long cmd; > > + > > + /* swap the read/write bits, due to differences in bsd & linux ioctls*/ > > + cmd = (unsigned long)args->cmd; > > + if (cmd & (0x40 << 24)) { > > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > > + cmd |= (0x80 << 24); > > + } else if (cmd & (0x80 << 24)) { > > + cmd &= 0xffffff; > > + cmd |= (0x40 << 24); > > + } > > + args->cmd = (l_uint)cmd; > > + > > + /* Pass the ioctl off to our standard handler, now that its valid */ > > + return(ioctl(td, (struct ioctl_args *)args)); > > +} > > This patch merely flips the cmd bits. > > I'm not familiar with the Linux DVB ioctls... is it really the case > that none of the data structures have 32/64-bit architecture dependent > field sizes? Great if that's the case, but if not, we need to do > data structure conversions here too, as we did for V4L. Yes we do, but after looking at the headers a bit it looks like it'll only be needed for FE_SET_PROPERTY, FE_GET_PROPERTY (unless I was being blind again; the latter also needs to be fixed from _IOR to _IOW before passing it on as we also had to do in our version of /usr/local/include/linux/dvb/frontend.h - see this thread for details: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2010-April/010958.html ), and conversions would be needed for some other structs that I _think_ are only used with full-feature tuner cards with internal mpeg2 decoders which I'm pretty sure don't exist as usb versions anyway so in that case we probably can get away by just ignoring them for now. (Tho I'd say we should treat them as errors insted of passing them thru wrong, I'm talking about ones in osd.h and video.h.) And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also explain why the naive patch appeared to work: whatever app(s) were used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) HTH, Juergen From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 20:18:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463F21065672; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gallatin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49FE8FC23; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:18:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gxk8 with SMTP id 8so8642283gxk.13 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:18:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VoYVBI5a0wfj+8FeeI6v4IrtNoRNZFshMPAN0L3OR2s=; b=sHIUNmh19P2HnoIGH/gibNy4q+VTFHkL4cejYYJLf8TG9CyoCw7YBJVnDoksw4oK96 zBRibKwnJwFGfTa04k+u7UVAScHhTmmnTEzQGadhfVHobGXYVPNt6NuZiLwrTqRx34Mx 8lLTQW98rLwmpftSUKNo4Ou3TJvdTRcIbz9Xw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Au8EGjoLE0GLGXkIZd9oX32P7otdUTjQ2lBAgStNTHQcRe9M1gonyBK189GWLlKm43 M5UF0PJa3aPH/P/ZyGc74GCfd2v/ReSk26tI6pvD/Hshz1VrOY+v9lG+7Id4xHDGmSNB bjvxQC912qVLNycrvWIpx2YqhFDcpkHFPzsFo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.140.10 with SMTP id n10mr35344and.126.1294777079941; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.248.15 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gallatin To: Juergen Lock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:18:01 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wrot= e: > =A0And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > explain why the naive patch appeared to work: =A0whatever app(s) were > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. Drew From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 20:40:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0576B106566B for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:40:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gallatin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0C1B8FC0A for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:40:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywp6 with SMTP id 6so8699575ywp.13 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:40:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VoYVBI5a0wfj+8FeeI6v4IrtNoRNZFshMPAN0L3OR2s=; b=sHIUNmh19P2HnoIGH/gibNy4q+VTFHkL4cejYYJLf8TG9CyoCw7YBJVnDoksw4oK96 zBRibKwnJwFGfTa04k+u7UVAScHhTmmnTEzQGadhfVHobGXYVPNt6NuZiLwrTqRx34Mx 8lLTQW98rLwmpftSUKNo4Ou3TJvdTRcIbz9Xw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Au8EGjoLE0GLGXkIZd9oX32P7otdUTjQ2lBAgStNTHQcRe9M1gonyBK189GWLlKm43 M5UF0PJa3aPH/P/ZyGc74GCfd2v/ReSk26tI6pvD/Hshz1VrOY+v9lG+7Id4xHDGmSNB bjvxQC912qVLNycrvWIpx2YqhFDcpkHFPzsFo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.140.10 with SMTP id n10mr35344and.126.1294777079941; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.248.15 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gallatin To: Juergen Lock Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:40:21 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wrot= e: > =A0And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > explain why the naive patch appeared to work: =A0whatever app(s) were > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. Drew From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 21:09:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84DC106567A; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:09:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.71]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F698FC12; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:09:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pool-141-154-232-8.bos.east.verizon.net ([141.154.232.8] helo=homobox.opal.com) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PclSu-000LFs-JO; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:09:17 +0000 Received: from opal.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by homobox.opal.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0BL9B4x066116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:09:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from shibato.opal.com ([2001:5c0:1100:f103:221:63ff:fe5a:c9a7] helo=shibato.opal.com) with IPv6:587 by opal.com; 11 Jan 2011 16:09:11 -0500 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 141.154.232.8 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX19qrDuCUZ3unZQdnEj8wEjf Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:09:07 -0500 From: "J.R. Oldroyd" To: Andrew Gallatin Message-ID: <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.6 (GTK+ 2.20.1; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:09:18 -0000 --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500, Andrew Gallatin wr= ote: > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wr= ote: >=20 > > =C2=A0And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > > explain why the naive patch appeared to work: =C2=A0whatever app(s) were > > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) >=20 > Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. >=20 > Drew At issue is not if the simple patch works for a few apps. At issue is whether or not FreeBSD should code defensively to protect against possible problems in the future. When I did the V4L shim, my initial test app (Skype) also worked without much of the structure conversion code. I was asked to write additional structure conversion code anyway, because it is the correct way to handle such data when the field sizes are not defined. The good news is that the conversion code is not complex. One copy in function and one copy out function that hande those data types whose length may vary is needed for each such structure. The bad news is, as I understand it, that DVB is tied closely to V4L2, so it may be necessary to implement a complete set of conversion code for all V4L2 functions, too. Is this the case? I'm not sure. On the other hand, if it is working acceptably now, we could just add the simpler patch and punt any conversion code until/if something is found to not work properly, later. -jr --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (FreeBSD) iEUEARECAAYFAk0sxvMACgkQls33urr0k4lJgQCXTELX/LtEOyoEn15raj0Oc9dw 5gCfSfykYJ0u0MSNq3H0XFxAKTkqxqI= =lEEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz-- From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 21:37:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AB11065698 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:37:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.71]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570C18FC2F for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:37:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pool-141-154-232-8.bos.east.verizon.net ([141.154.232.8] helo=homobox.opal.com) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PclSu-000LFs-JO; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:09:17 +0000 Received: from opal.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (authenticated bits=0) by homobox.opal.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0BL9B4x066116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:09:11 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from fbsd@opal.com) Received: from shibato.opal.com ([2001:5c0:1100:f103:221:63ff:fe5a:c9a7] helo=shibato.opal.com) with IPv6:587 by opal.com; 11 Jan 2011 16:09:11 -0500 X-Mail-Handler: MailHop Outbound by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 141.154.232.8 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/mailhop/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX19qrDuCUZ3unZQdnEj8wEjf Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 16:09:07 -0500 From: "J.R. Oldroyd" To: Andrew Gallatin Message-ID: <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.6 (GTK+ 2.20.1; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:37:33 -0000 --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500, Andrew Gallatin wr= ote: > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wr= ote: >=20 > > =C2=A0And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > > explain why the naive patch appeared to work: =C2=A0whatever app(s) were > > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) >=20 > Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. >=20 > Drew At issue is not if the simple patch works for a few apps. At issue is whether or not FreeBSD should code defensively to protect against possible problems in the future. When I did the V4L shim, my initial test app (Skype) also worked without much of the structure conversion code. I was asked to write additional structure conversion code anyway, because it is the correct way to handle such data when the field sizes are not defined. The good news is that the conversion code is not complex. One copy in function and one copy out function that hande those data types whose length may vary is needed for each such structure. The bad news is, as I understand it, that DVB is tied closely to V4L2, so it may be necessary to implement a complete set of conversion code for all V4L2 functions, too. Is this the case? I'm not sure. On the other hand, if it is working acceptably now, we could just add the simpler patch and punt any conversion code until/if something is found to not work properly, later. -jr --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (FreeBSD) iEUEARECAAYFAk0sxvMACgkQls33urr0k4lJgQCXTELX/LtEOyoEn15raj0Oc9dw 5gCfSfykYJ0u0MSNq3H0XFxAKTkqxqI= =lEEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/W4R7V1QbhiR=lnfRH/uvidz-- From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 22:23:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6581065670; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:23:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A598FC15; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:22:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 767761E00075; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:22:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0BMKtc6045623; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p0BMKtdV045622; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 To: "J.R. Oldroyd" Message-ID: <20110111222055.GA44727@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock , Andrew Gallatin , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:23:00 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 04:09:07PM -0500, J.R. Oldroyd wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wrote: > > > > >  And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > > > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > > > explain why the naive patch appeared to work:  whatever app(s) were > > > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > > > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) > > > > Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. > > Yeah those don't use the `new' api I'd say. > > Drew > > At issue is not if the simple patch works for a few apps. At issue > is whether or not FreeBSD should code defensively to protect against > possible problems in the future. > > When I did the V4L shim, my initial test app (Skype) also worked without > much of the structure conversion code. I was asked to write additional > structure conversion code anyway, because it is the correct way to > handle such data when the field sizes are not defined. > > The good news is that the conversion code is not complex. One copy > in function and one copy out function that hande those data types whose > length may vary is needed for each such structure. > Yeah and in this case (FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY) it is only two structures, tho one of them is an array. (struct dtv_properties and struct dtv_property, and the pointer in struct dtv_property is called reserved2 i.e. its unused.) > The bad news is, as I understand it, that DVB is tied closely to V4L2, > so it may be necessary to implement a complete set of conversion code > for all V4L2 functions, too. Is this the case? I'm not sure. > Isnt v4l2 still about /dev/video*? The dvb api is only about /dev/dvb/adapter*/* and pretty independent... Afaik. > On the other hand, if it is working acceptably now, we could just add > the simpler patch and punt any conversion code until/if something is > found to not work properly, later. At least things that want to be able to use dvb-s2 need the `new' dvb api and thus will have problems. (I know and have here at least the kde4 version of kaffeine, w_scan, szap_s2, and vdr, tho of course I use them natively.) Oh and mythtv I'm pretty sure knows dvb-s2 too. But anyway if you want to merge this version as it is now you want it at least to return errors for the ioctls it doesn't translate, or only do that on amd64. (Or maybe I'll look at this over the weekend myself but I can't promise anything... :) Cheers, Juergen From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 11 22:23:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C6581065670; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:23:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nox@jelal.kn-bremen.de) Received: from smtp.kn-bremen.de (gelbbaer.kn-bremen.de [78.46.108.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A598FC15; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:22:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kn-bremen.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 767761E00075; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:22:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from triton8.kn-bremen.de (noident@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0BMKtc6045623; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox@triton8.kn-bremen.de) Received: (from nox@localhost) by triton8.kn-bremen.de (8.14.4/8.14.3/Submit) id p0BMKtdV045622; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from nox) From: Juergen Lock Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100 To: "J.R. Oldroyd" Message-ID: <20110111222055.GA44727@triton8.kn-bremen.de> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock , Andrew Gallatin , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org, Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:23:00 -0000 On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 04:09:07PM -0500, J.R. Oldroyd wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 15:17:59 -0500, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Juergen Lock wrote: > > > > >  And FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY I think are part of the `new' dvb api that > > > was introduced when adding support for dvb-s2, which would also > > > explain why the naive patch appeared to work:  whatever app(s) were > > > used to test it probably were just still using the `old' dvb api. > > > (Well, or the tests were only done on i386. :) > > > > Test was done with just azap, dvbtraffic, and test_dvr on amd64.. > > Yeah those don't use the `new' api I'd say. > > Drew > > At issue is not if the simple patch works for a few apps. At issue > is whether or not FreeBSD should code defensively to protect against > possible problems in the future. > > When I did the V4L shim, my initial test app (Skype) also worked without > much of the structure conversion code. I was asked to write additional > structure conversion code anyway, because it is the correct way to > handle such data when the field sizes are not defined. > > The good news is that the conversion code is not complex. One copy > in function and one copy out function that hande those data types whose > length may vary is needed for each such structure. > Yeah and in this case (FE_[GS]ET_PROPERTY) it is only two structures, tho one of them is an array. (struct dtv_properties and struct dtv_property, and the pointer in struct dtv_property is called reserved2 i.e. its unused.) > The bad news is, as I understand it, that DVB is tied closely to V4L2, > so it may be necessary to implement a complete set of conversion code > for all V4L2 functions, too. Is this the case? I'm not sure. > Isnt v4l2 still about /dev/video*? The dvb api is only about /dev/dvb/adapter*/* and pretty independent... Afaik. > On the other hand, if it is working acceptably now, we could just add > the simpler patch and punt any conversion code until/if something is > found to not work properly, later. At least things that want to be able to use dvb-s2 need the `new' dvb api and thus will have problems. (I know and have here at least the kde4 version of kaffeine, w_scan, szap_s2, and vdr, tho of course I use them natively.) Oh and mythtv I'm pretty sure knows dvb-s2 too. But anyway if you want to merge this version as it is now you want it at least to return errors for the ioctls it doesn't translate, or only do that on amd64. (Or maybe I'll look at this over the weekend myself but I can't promise anything... :) Cheers, Juergen From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 10:09:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B442106566B; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:09:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 385538FC17; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:09:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p57B3B3B3.dip.t-dialin.net [87.179.179.179]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B7005844012; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:09:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (unknown [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77A62970; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:09:11 +0100 (CET) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p0CA8elx086681; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 Message-ID: <20110112110840.157527pfroeph9xc@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 11:08:40 +0100 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Juergen Lock References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> <20110111222055.GA44727@triton8.kn-bremen.de> In-Reply-To: <20110111222055.GA44727@triton8.kn-bremen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.4) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: B7005844012.A6656 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=1.274, required 6, autolearn=disabled, RDNS_NONE 1.27) X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamScore: s X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1295431757.15079@u/4XfiFb5x2/HaavlGS5ew X-EBL-Spam-Status: No Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Andrew Gallatin Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:09:21 -0000 Quoting Juergen Lock (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 23:20:55 +0100): > But anyway if you want to merge this version as it is now you want > it at least to return errors for the ioctls it doesn't translate, > or only do that on amd64. > > (Or maybe I'll look at this over the weekend myself but I can't > promise anything... :) So if it is just two ioctl's to cover: Andrew, do your applications still work when those ioctl's return ENOSYS or an error (whatever is more sensible in this case)? If yes, I would not complain if those ioctl's would return ENOSYS (and do some sensible rate limited logging explaining the issue) in the linux32 on amd64 case but work on i386 (in case nobody has the time to make them work correctly in linux32 on amd64). One question still remains, why is the bitswap required? Is it really that linux uses a different order than FreeBSD and all the other code does it somehow implicitely (and I didn't notice it), or is there something else going on? IMO this is an important question to answer before a commit. Bye, Alexander. -- A diplomat is a man who can convince his wife she'd look stout in a fur coat. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 12 13:36:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E881065674; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:36:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gallatin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E418FC12; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:36:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywp6 with SMTP id 6so213752ywp.13 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 05:36:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9pkRt2d9hMOk4WeOnhDJlL85jHK2cwuxHAFgBQCBMTs=; b=BEa3KkjNq6ifOMLMccwrZ0Fz2brHVTa8cDzpdDSKs9X2DatM7/PPc8117DUslMWhzJ 5DVMbNgmKYM7wRSzzMgS1GXgRXepV2NTyisVNwIgG3oCUH/NPmBWfq4pxyUmA/qWycg3 WFdJ5iSBJ56+QjHnQ4pNcADR9DcNv1FAmmeS4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=J/MpbHFC+z6+/ptTNvfzzgB2fZdWDg9iF2L2n10drYNjKQ7JY3/N39GDgEeNhF/9Fk 4EoVRtnzEdIN2tOd8H8/6dZ2IebQsDdyU8ePgqjFRNhf1BXQ4Gwob/TN8QvTTBsWr8Pb jGmEfJUZmmkoouDjLMpE/4M9c1npyI87c4P30= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.173.18 with SMTP id v18mr616760ane.58.1294839362013; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 05:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.248.15 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2011 05:36:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20110112110840.157527pfroeph9xc@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <20091204223126.00005392@unknown> <201001081650.14189.hselasky@c2i.net> <20100108114130.1cfe88c5@shibato.opal.com> <201101110947.46399.hselasky@c2i.net> <20110111092609.7bf82016@shibato.opal.com> <20110111183937.GA36761@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110111160907.454c74d7@shibato.opal.com> <20110111222055.GA44727@triton8.kn-bremen.de> <20110112110840.157527pfroeph9xc@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:36:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gallatin To: Alexander Leidinger Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, emulation@freebsd.org, Juergen Lock Subject: Re: FYI: v4l-linuxulator support in FreeBSD-current now X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 13:36:03 -0000 On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 5:08 AM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > Quoting Juergen Lock (from Tue, 11 Jan 2011 > 23:20:55 +0100): > >> =A0But anyway if you want to merge this version as it is now you want >> it at least to return errors for the ioctls it doesn't translate, >> or only do that on amd64. >> >> =A0(Or maybe I'll look at this over the weekend myself but I can't >> promise anything... :) > > So if it is just two ioctl's to cover: Andrew, do your applications still > work =A0when those ioctl's return ENOSYS or an error (whatever is more > sensible in this case)? If yes, I would not complain if those ioctl's wou= ld > return ENOSYS (and do some sensible rate limited logging explaining the > issue) in the linux32 on amd64 case but work on i386 (in case nobody has = the > time to make them work correctly in linux32 on amd64). You guys are too fast for me. I haven't had time to actually install the intended application (SageTV) and its pre-reqs yet. > One question still remains, why is the bitswap required? Is it really tha= t > linux uses a different order than FreeBSD and all the other code does it > somehow implicitely (and I didn't notice it), or is there something else > going on? IMO this is an important question to answer before a commit. This confused me too, so I wrote a toy program & compiled it on linux (program appended). The output it gives is on linux is: IOC_DIRSHIFT=3D30, IOW=3D40040000 IOR=3D80040000 Looking at the FreeBSD ioctl defines in sys/ioccom.h #define IOC_OUT 0x40000000 /* copy out parameters */ #define IOC_IN 0x80000000 /* copy in parameters */ #define _IOR(g,n,t) _IOC(IOC_OUT, (g), (n), sizeof(t)) #define _IOW(g,n,t) _IOC(IOC_IN, (g), (n), sizeof(t)) So it does seem that IOR / IOW are reversed in FreeBSD & Linux. Not sure why this has never been an issue before. Drew #include #include main() { printf("IOC_DIRSHIFT=3D%d, IOW=3D%lx IOR=3D%lx\n", _IOC_DIRSHIFT, _IOW(0, 0, int), _IOR(0, 0, int)); } From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 14 01:42:24 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009D01065672 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:42:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodshop2300@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BABA48FC1E for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:42:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyb26 with SMTP id 26so2176885iyb.13 for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:42:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=IsoQKsR/8hPVVLbRCbiGdkPGKXKlUsJRY5naV5o0Byo=; b=n/F88EYdnnH6OFVf3qVadOMx+LLzF8EGIpWkiu+iT0ukql0+1ETT+ooqdtABspA4NJ 5AUbsXHZutLf/0KjywLpkD6qne4DLDycrj2L0BtyHRFket+is4xJ2LiU9UecEfunc+Mf XJestqxNqJg9IcaT636DWvR+hhwzd8xMISGyI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version:x-mailer; b=gKJVjnPK+qJEUAp/3O9acQL/mc7aKRbSpjSyjTgYXW198ahAwSZ7Q67kwmUYdZ11on GCaMl7OC0+LGyVAdVi4PSpU+DweUjqAmK1OQRXlw7B4Y2qhhrEOtEAIEhcrsHskOn/Xw Z3Q/Biur7pXq5jNcIkk8Jy9H64oP77UsGbUCY= Received: by 10.42.164.71 with SMTP id f7mr157632icy.168.1294967843127; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.200.0.248] (cpe-173-89-38-154.wi.res.rr.com [173.89.38.154]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u5sm412356ics.18.2011.01.13.17.17.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:17:22 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Anagnos Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:17:22 -0600 Message-Id: <4FB8F3A5-D455-4F55-AC14-24ADC7A38DA2@gmail.com> To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Subject: Debugging virtualbox "bus error: 10" ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 01:42:24 -0000 I have VirtualBox OSE 3.2.12 and FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE. This situation is rather unique. The system setup uses "likewise" to provide Windows Domain auth/login, = that is working fine. My problem is then when i log in using a domain account and try to start = VirtualBox (via command line: $VirtualBox). All the output i get is=20 "Bus error: 10" and for a small small fraction of a second the beginning of a GUI = window.. If i log into the box with a local account (non domain), everything = works just fine. Both accounts are in the vboxusers group and the group rights are = working correctly. In my efforts to figure out why things don't work i've tried starting = VirtualBox in gdb, only to find that the VirtualBox executable uses the = set uid flag to get an euid of 0. gdb strips that flag for security reasons, thus all i get is an euid = error out of virtualbox, joy.. Doing a su to root and trying that way makes it fail to find X11 = display. But since this is probably something permissions wise, i'd hazard = running a root would fix it anyway, not something that would help.. next up i tried tress, that didn't care about the set uid flag so i got = some info out of it. sadly there was nothing in there that looked erroneous that wasn't = present in a tress from the working account.. Since VirtualBox i was giving a "Bus error: 10" i looked though the man = pages and found the default action for "Bus error" is to make a core = dump. Looking through the entire harddrive i've failed to find any *.core = files.. Looking back at the tress, i can see the VirtualBox is exiting with = status 0, i guess that is why i don't get a core dump. Trying other things i found that everything that does not use a GUI = looks to be working.. I can start a VM using Headless, and vboxmanage works so long as i don't = try to "startvm". Since it is a buss error, and at least according to syslog that message = came from the kernel. All i can think of left to try is to enable KTRACE in my kernel and hope = that will point me somewhere.. But i'm thinking it won't, since the GUI is not even starting all the = way. I'd hazard a guess that VirtualBox does not even begin to make use of = vboxdrv until you actually start a VM, which works in headless.. From owner-freebsd-emulation@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 14 18:46:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E6610656CD for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:46:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rnejdl@ringofsaturn.com) Received: from tethys.ringofsaturn.com (tethys.ringofsaturn.com [71.252.219.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB7E8FC08 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:46:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ASSP.nospam (tethys [71.252.219.43]) (authenticated bits=0) by tethys.ringofsaturn.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p0EIXioS023915 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:33:45 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rnejdl@ringofsaturn.com) Received: from mail.ringofsaturn.com ([71.252.219.43] helo=mail.ringofsaturn.com) with IPv4:25 by ASSP.nospam; 14 Jan 2011 12:33:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 12:33:44 -0600 From: Rusty Nejdl To: Mail-Reply-To: In-Reply-To: <4FB8F3A5-D455-4F55-AC14-24ADC7A38DA2@gmail.com> References: <4FB8F3A5-D455-4F55-AC14-24ADC7A38DA2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <12c45790b6d0030a53555fcc3c56cde8@ringofsaturn.com> X-Sender: rnejdl@ringofsaturn.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.6-svn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Debugging virtualbox "bus error: 10" ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: rnejdl@ringofsaturn.com List-Id: Development of Emulators of other operating systems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:46:11 -0000 On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:17:22 -0600, Alex Anagnos wrote: > I have VirtualBox OSE 3.2.12 and FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE. > > This situation is rather unique. > The system setup uses "likewise" to provide Windows Domain auth/login, that is working fine. > > My problem is then when i log in using a domain account and try to start VirtualBox (via command line: $VirtualBox). > All the output i get is > "Bus error: 10" > and for a small small fraction of a second the beginning of a GUI window.. > > If i log into the box with a local account (non domain), everything works just fine. > > Both accounts are in the vboxusers group and the group rights are working correctly. > > In my efforts to figure out why things don't work i've tried starting VirtualBox in gdb, only to find that the VirtualBox executable uses the set uid flag to get an euid of 0. > gdb strips that flag for security reasons, thus all i get is an euid error out of virtualbox, joy.. > > Doing a su to root and trying that way makes it fail to find X11 display. > But since this is probably something permissions wise, i'd hazard running a root would fix it anyway, not something that would help.. > > next up i tried tress, that didn't care about the set uid flag so i got some info out of it. > sadly there was nothing in there that looked erroneous that wasn't present in a tress from the working account.. > > Since VirtualBox i was giving a "Bus error: 10" i looked though the man pages and found the default action for "Bus error" is to make a core dump. > Looking through the entire harddrive i've failed to find any *.core files.. > Looking back at the tress, i can see the VirtualBox is exiting with status 0, i guess that is why i don't get a core dump. > > Trying other things i found that everything that does not use a GUI looks to be working.. > I can start a VM using Headless, and vboxmanage works so long as i don't try to "startvm". > > Since it is a buss error, and at least according to syslog that message came from the kernel. > All i can think of left to try is to enable KTRACE in my kernel and hope that will point me somewhere.. > But i'm thinking it won't, since the GUI is not even starting all the way. > I'd hazard a guess that VirtualBox does not even begin to make use of vboxdrv until you actually start a VM, which works in headless.. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org [1] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-emulation [2] > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-emulation-unsubscribe@freebsd.org [3]" The only thing I could come up with was permissions since many of the VBox binaries are SUID. However, I cannot find any difference externally for the headless binary and the others. Other thoughts have to do with permissions to the X process that you are granted when you log on to the domain. Rusty Nejdl Links: ------ [1] mailto:freebsd-emulation@freebsd.org [2] http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-emulation [3] mailto:freebsd-emulation-unsubscribe@freebsd.org