From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 02:45:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA20779 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA20769 Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id LAA25076; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:30:20 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02710; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:29:58 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:29:58 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Daniel Baker cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SB16 & Current In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > Are you running 2.2-CURRENT from after Feb 1? I supped yesterday ( Feb 3rd) from the German sup server. BTW, I use /dev/audio. .au files sound ugly via dsp device. But I think you use another audio file type, do you ?! Perhaps try the ones from the game xboing... Then we tell about the same things. -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 08:05:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12530 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp [133.6.57.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA12525 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (8.7.3+2.6Wbeta5/3.3W9) with ESMTP id BAA00550 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 01:05:44 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199602041605.BAA00550@marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: kmem_malloc called at splimp X-Mailer: Mew beta version 0.96 on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 01:05:41 +0900 From: KATO Takenori Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The function kmem_malloc() is called at splimp when mbuffer is initialized. Is it safe? 1. The function mbinit() calls m_clalloc() at splimp. 2. The function m_clalloc() calls kmem_malloc() without changing software interruption mask. 3. Therefore, kmem_malloc() is called at splimp. 4. The comment of kmem_malloc says that `this still only works in a uni-processor environment and when called at splhigh().' ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Because splimp of FreeBSD doesn't block disk I/O, above operation may clobber vm map IF disk I/O interruption occurs. (I have not checked whether it occurs or not, yet.) ---- KATO Takenori Dept. Earth Planet. Sci., Nagoya Univ., Nagoya 464-01 Voice: +81-52-789-2529 Fax: +81-52-789-3033 From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 08:28:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA13704 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:28:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (root@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13665 Sun, 4 Feb 1996 08:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) id KAA00249; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:27:37 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 10:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com To: Andreas Klemm cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SB16 & Current In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > > Are you running 2.2-CURRENT from after Feb 1? > > I supped yesterday ( Feb 3rd) from the German sup server. > > BTW, I use /dev/audio. .au files sound ugly via dsp > device. But I think you use another audio file type, > do you ?! Okay, I copied your file, and recompiled, it now seems to work, strange, I don't immediatly see the differnce in them. > > Perhaps try the ones from the game xboing... Then we tell > about the same things. > BTW, do you know any way to play .wav files? > -- > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > \/ > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz > apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< > -- Daniel Baker - Daniel@Cuckoo.COM "Huhuhu, thank you, drive through please" From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 11:23:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA25558 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA25545 Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id UAA12352; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:00:19 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10617; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:50:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:50:11 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Daniel Baker cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SB16 & Current In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > > > Are you running 2.2-CURRENT from after Feb 1? > > > > I supped yesterday ( Feb 3rd) from the German sup server. > > > > BTW, I use /dev/audio. .au files sound ugly via dsp > > device. But I think you use another audio file type, > > do you ?! > > Okay, I copied your file, and recompiled, it now seems to work, > strange, I don't immediatly see the differnce in them. Fine ;-) The result counts ;-)) > BTW, do you know any way to play .wav files? Hmm, dunno. Did you already browse through the ports collection ? Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 11:38:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26948 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26943 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00753; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:38:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199602041938.LAA00753@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: KATO Takenori cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kmem_malloc called at splimp In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 01:05:41 +0900." <199602041605.BAA00550@marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 11:38:21 -0800 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The function kmem_malloc() is called at splimp when mbuffer is >initialized. Is it safe? > >1. The function mbinit() calls m_clalloc() at splimp. >2. The function m_clalloc() calls kmem_malloc() without changing > software interruption mask. >3. Therefore, kmem_malloc() is called at splimp. > >4. The comment of kmem_malloc says that `this still only works in a > uni-processor environment and when called at splhigh().' > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Because splimp of FreeBSD doesn't block disk I/O, above operation may >clobber vm map IF disk I/O interruption occurs. (I have not checked >whether it occurs or not, yet.) Our kernel malloc currently only supports interrupt-time allocations for network buffers (splimp). We've considered changing this to be safe to use in all cases, but we haven't done this yet. For this reason, only network drivers are allowed to use malloc at interrupt time. If you know of a specific case where a malloc is occuring during a non-network interrupt, please let us know! -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 12:22:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02170 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:22:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (root@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com [206.109.5.227]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02144 Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:22:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dbaker@localhost) by cocoa.ops.neosoft.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) id OAA00259; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:19:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:19:45 -0600 (CST) From: Daniel Baker X-Sender: dbaker@cocoa.ops.neosoft.com To: Andreas Klemm cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: SB16 & Current In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Daniel Baker wrote: > > > > Are you running 2.2-CURRENT from after Feb 1? > > > > > > I supped yesterday ( Feb 3rd) from the German sup server. > > > > > > BTW, I use /dev/audio. .au files sound ugly via dsp > > > device. But I think you use another audio file type, > > > do you ?! > > > > Okay, I copied your file, and recompiled, it now seems to work, > > strange, I don't immediatly see the differnce in them. > > Fine ;-) The result counts ;-)) > > > BTW, do you know any way to play .wav files? > > Hmm, dunno. Did you already browse through the ports collection ? Yah, I'm not sure if there is a sox feature or something.... > > Andreas /// > > -- > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > \/ > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz > apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< > -- Daniel Baker - Daniel@Cuckoo.COM "Huhuhu, thank you, drive through please" From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 13:35:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA08439 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 13:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08424 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 13:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([193.88.44.194]) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA02889; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 22:21:24 +0100 Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA03647; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:35:56 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Paul Traina cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compiling the kernel with -O2 In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 14:31:53 PST." <199602022231.OAA01708@precipice.shockwave.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 00:35:55 +0100 Message-ID: <3645.823304155@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > has anyone determined if this is safe? Have had no problems I could cure by omitting -O2. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 14:57:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13036 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13026 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 14:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tjDM5-0009S2C; Sun, 4 Feb 96 23:56 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 23:56 MET X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.3 References: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: SB16 & Current X-Original-Newsgroups: deadline.lists.freebsd-current In-Reply-To: To: Daniel Baker Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Daniel Baker writes: >BTW, do you know any way to play .wav files? I use the rplay sound server on my -current machine, which seems to work very fine and seems to have some advantages over nas for my favour. Rplay recognizes most audio formats (.wav/.au/.aiff/etc..) offers a library for use in application programs as well as some nice tools which are being distributed along with rplay. The current version (3.2.0.b5) is available from ftp.sdsu.edu in /pub/rplay and should compile without problems on FreeBSD. On the other hand there is the nas (network audio system) package available in the ports collection which is also able of playing .wav files over networks etc. But my favoured candidate stays rplay. The last thing I know of are some small tools simply called "play" and "record" which play/record sounds in wav file format directly from/to /dev/dsp. But I'm sorry I do not have the sources for these tools anymore, just the binaries. Regards, mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 16:21:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17042 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from originat.demon.co.uk (originat.demon.co.uk [158.152.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17034 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from paul@localhost) by originat.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA07999 for FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:11:45 GMT From: Paul Richards Message-Id: <199602031411.OAA07999@originat.demon.co.uk> Subject: missing subdirs To: FreeBSD-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD current mailing list) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:11:45 +0000 (GMT) Reply-to: paul@netcraft.co.uk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I'm trying to compile -current and first of all it failed because of a missing bootpdgw dir and after removing that from the Makefile it's now failing on a missing rpc.rquotad dir. What's up? I'm at ctm delta 1629. -- Paul Richards, Netcraft Ltd. Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 16:25:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA17239 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17234 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:25:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA08862 for current@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 17:23:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602050023.RAA08862@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: SUP, config, and opt_sysvipc.h To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 17:23:13 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk OK, I have switched over to a different SUP server, like Jordan has been going on about. I updated my CVS, like several other people went on about (I find it curious that the old CVS aborted on a CVS update with an out of date but modified local file, and the new CVS reports conflicts correctly (which is what I expected the old CVS to do). I built the new "config". I did "config GENERIC". I did "make depend" in compile/GENERIC: cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DI686_CPU -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DATAPI -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY="15" -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c ../../i386/i386/genassym.c:40: opt_sysvipc.h: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 I can't see from the source files where opt_sysvipc.h is supposed to be created. If it is created optionally as a result of changes to "config" without corresponding changes to "GENERIC", then "GENERIC" should be fixed. I think it's silly that you would not be able to build a kernel without SYSVIPC in this case: ../../i386/i386/genassym.c always (unconditionally) includes opt_sysvipc.h. What do I have to do to fix this? I thought the config was it... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 20:21:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA29090 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:21:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29085 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:21:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by fw.ast.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tjIRg-000858C; Sun, 4 Feb 96 22:22 CST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 22:22 CST To: current@freebsd.org From: root@fw.ast.com (The Amazing Big Guy) Sent: Sun Feb 4 1996, 22:22:27 CST Subject: -current build problems Cc: kent@fw.ast.com Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It has been a while since I have tried to build -current, but I have made several attempts over the past week (supping each day in case I only had part of a multi-file change) and still the make fails in the same places: ("make world" also dies here) >===> csu/i386 >===> libc >cc -O -DLIBC_RCS -DSYSLIBC_RCS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/c/current/src/lib/libc/locale -DYP -c /c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c -o mcount.o >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c: In function `_mcount': >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:71: parse error before `frompc' >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:71: declaration for parameter `fptrint_t' but no such parameter >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:76: parse error before `frompci' >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:100: `frompci' undeclared (first use this function) >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:100: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once >/c/current/src/lib/libc/gmon/mcount.c:100: for each function it appears in.) >*** Error code 1 Sup created mcount.c has a mod date of 30-Dec-95, so it hasn't changed lately. I have also tried to just build the kernel but that also fails, even if I do a config GENERIC. The config gets a strange warning: ># config GENERIC >Removing old directory ../../compile/GENERIC: Done. >Unknown % construct in generic makefile: %SFILES >Kernel build directory is ../../compile/GENERIC %SFILES is present in the Makefile.i386 file. Despite the above error/warning, I attempted the build anyway: ># cd ../../compile/GENERIC ># make depend >cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DGENERIC -DI686_CPU -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DATAPI -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS -DSCSI_DELAY="15" -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -DTIMEZONE=0 -DDST=0 -DMAXUSERS=10 -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c >../../i386/i386/genassym.c:40: opt_sysvipc.h: No such file or directory >*** Error code 1 >Stop. Any ideas? "find" cannot locate "opt_sysvipc.h" anywhere in the -current tree. All of the above work is being done on a 2.1R system and no part of the -current tree is installed anywhere. It used to be that once the -current tree was downloaded, you could do a "make world" plus a kernel config;make depend; make and have a complete system. Is this not the procedure anymore? Thanks in advance. Kent kent@fw.ast.com From owner-freebsd-current Sun Feb 4 23:49:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA09590 for current-outgoing; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09580 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id IAA14612 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 08:47:55 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id IAA15540 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 08:47:55 +0100 Received: (uucp@localhost) by fasterix.frmug.fr.net (8.6.11/fasterix-941011) with UUCP id FAA05161 for current@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 05:30:30 +0100 Received: (from regnauld@localhost) by tetard.frmug.fr.net (8.7.3/8.7.3/tetard-uucp-2.7) id DAA00592 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 03:17:51 +0100 (MET) From: Philippe Regnauld Message-Id: <199602070217.DAA00592@tetard.frmug.fr.net> Subject: Re: SB16 & Current To: current@freebsd.org (current) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 03:17:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 4, 96 11:56:00 pm X-rene: Tu dois pas les avoir perdues, normalement. X-wing-fighter: et puis X-men, X-open, X-ta-mere... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas S. Wetzel écrit / writes: > The last thing I know of are some small tools simply called "play" and > "record" which play/record sounds in wav file format directly from/to > /dev/dsp. But I'm sorry I do not have the sources for these tools anymore, > just the binaries. There are (were?) two programs included in the Voxware package, which where SPLAY and VPLAY (with links to SREC and SPLAY) -- one supercedes the other -- all I know is they play/record in any format (WAV, VOC, AU, IFF) with several command line options (bits, stereo, length, etc...). -- Phil -- - [ regnauld@tetard.frmug.fr.net / +48.8N+2.3E / +33 1 4507 9391 / Sol 3 ] - - [ regnauld@freenix.fr / FreeBSD 2.x / ] - "Le schtroumpf est à l'homme ce que le bleu est au billard" - F.Berjon From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 01:32:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA14264 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 01:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA13987 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 01:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA23194 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:28:58 +0800 Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-current@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: 5 Feb 96 09:25:46 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199602031411.OAA07999@originat.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: missing subdirs Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk paul@originat.demon.co.uk (Paul Richards) writes: >I'm trying to compile -current and first of all it failed because of >a missing bootpdgw dir and after removing that from the Makefile it's >now failing on a missing rpc.rquotad dir. >What's up? >I'm at ctm delta 1629. Sounds like you're getting cvs-cur and when you're doing your cvs update, you've forgotten the "-d -P" arguments. ie: cvs -q update -d -P If you forget -P, removed directories wont go away, and if you forget -d, then new directories wont appear. -Peter >-- > Paul Richards, Netcraft Ltd. > Internet: paul@netcraft.co.uk, http://www.netcraft.co.uk > Phone: 0370 462071 (Mobile), +44 1225 447500 (work) From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 09:21:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10953 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10947 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14813(5)>; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:20:25 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07390; Mon, 5 Feb 96 12:20:09 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00240; Mon, 5 Feb 96 12:20:09 EST Message-Id: <9602051720.AA00240@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Chien-Ta Lee Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 19:26:34 PST." <199602030326.LAA23878@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:20:08 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hi : > > I noticed an gcc option from recently pentium-gcc discussions, > that's "-fomit-frame-pointer". (I remembered linux often use it) > I man gcc and it said that the option will make debug impossible. > I always making my world with "-O2 -m486", is it ok to use this > option to make world ? How about make kernel ?! > About make kernel, will "-O2" or "-O2 -m486" make kernel run faster ? > > Thanks. > -- > > For grunts, I tried -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer when building the kernel... It become bigger (;-) [maybe loops got unrolled...] I think it would be interested to run lmbench or something on different kernels... -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 12:44:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA22341 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22336 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 12:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA15814; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:41:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602052041.NAA15814@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: -current build problems To: root@fw.ast.com (The Amazing Big Guy) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:41:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org, kent@fw.ast.com In-Reply-To: from "The Amazing Big Guy" at Feb 4, 96 10:22:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >cc -c -O -W -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit > -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Winline > -nostdinc -I. -I../.. -I../../sys -I../../../include -DGENERIC -DI686_CPU > -DI586_CPU -DI486_CPU -DI386_CPU -DATAPI -DUCONSOLE -DBOUNCE_BUFFERS > -DSCSI_DELAY="15" -DCOMPAT_43 -DPROCFS -DCD9660 -DMSDOSFS -DNFS -DFFS > -DINET -DMATH_EMULATE -DKERNEL -DTIMEZONE=0 -DDST=0 -DMAXUSERS=10 > -UKERNEL ../../i386/i386/genassym.c > >../../i386/i386/genassym.c:40: opt_sysvipc.h: No such file or directory > >*** Error code 1 > >Stop. > > Any ideas? "find" cannot locate "opt_sysvipc.h" anywhere in the -current > tree. I just had this same problem, after telling someone to update their config after they had the same problem. My problem was that I still had an old config. It seems my usr.sbin sup pointer was incorrect since I changed to the new SUP server and so my sources had not been updated. So: update your config, build it, install it, config a new kernel, and then be happy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 14:42:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02214 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:42:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02209 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA04949 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:42:17 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA20240 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:42:16 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA11357 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:34:48 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602052234.XAA11357@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Wired memory To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Current Users' list) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:34:46 +0100 (MET) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1630 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk When I run top, it seems that much more memory is in the Wired column... Is that expected or is there a problem somewhere ? load averages: 0.81, 0.75, 0.51 23:31:38 59 processes: 3 running, 54 sleeping, 1 stopped Cpu states: 96.6% user, 0.0% nice, 2.7% system, 0.8% interrupt, 0.0% idle Mem: 19M Active, 184K Inact, 7608K Wired, 3648K Cache, 3775K Buf, 80K Free ^^^^^ Swap: 82M Total, 23M Used, 59M Free, 28% Inuse 486DX4/100, 32 MB, 80 MB swap, kernel with SB2 sound driver, ipfw and DDB. I seem to remember that even with DDB, the wired section was never more than 4.5 MB / 5 MB... PS: John, the new pipe code seems and feels wonderful. Thanks. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Sun Feb 4 03:11:17 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 14:43:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02280 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.192.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02274 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05040 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:14 -0800 Received: from pdx202 by ichips.intel.com (8.7.1/jIII); Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602052243.OAA22546@ichips.intel.com> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Anyone using AMD with -current? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 14:43:03 -0800 From: Wayne Scott Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I updated to current today for the first time and I am unable to get AMD automounter to work correctly. (I was using it fine with -stable) Do anyone here use AMD with -current? Behavior I am seeing: Machine looks healthy Can ping myself, gateway, and fileserver Can nfs mount drive from fileserver on /mnt and use it. When I cd to automount dir of same drive that process freezes. From another process I can see that the drive was mounted by AMD. Ideas? -Wayne From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 14:43:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02345 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02339 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15985(3)>; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:43:16 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10619; Mon, 5 Feb 96 17:43:01 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01191; Mon, 5 Feb 96 17:42:59 EST Message-Id: <9602052242.AA01191@gnu.mc.xerox.com> Cc: Chien-Ta Lee , freebsd-current@freebsd.org To: To: Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 09:20:08 PST." <9602051720.AA00240@gnu.mc.xerox.com> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:42:58 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <9602051720.AA00240@gnu.mc.xerox.com>, you write: >> >> Hi : >> >> I noticed an gcc option from recently pentium-gcc discussions, >> that's "-fomit-frame-pointer". (I remembered linux often use it) >> I man gcc and it said that the option will make debug impossible. >> I always making my world with "-O2 -m486", is it ok to use this >> option to make world ? How about make kernel ?! >> About make kernel, will "-O2" or "-O2 -m486" make kernel run faster ? >> >> Thanks. >> -- >> >> I didn't read the message fully before I replied... -fomit-frame-pointer is something I've only seen in Linux. With -fomit-frame-pointer, you can't debug code...core dumps are meaningless...Please don't do it!! The only place where it may be useful is in the kernel. marty From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 14:48:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA02693 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02675 Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA28166 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:48:46 +0100 Message-Id: <199602052248.AA28166@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:48:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Lost some mail ... Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all! Just in case you sent some NCR or PCI driver related message within the last 24 hours: We had major reliability problems with our central file server, and it managed to crash (again) while I was just updating my mail inbox. This made me loose soem 30 messages I intended to reply to later ... So in case you don't hear from me within for more than a day after sending mail of some kind, please resend your message, since it most probably was lost. Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 15:14:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04339 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04333 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA03776; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:14:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199602052314.PAA03776@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Ollivier Robert cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Current Users' list) Subject: Re: Wired memory In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:34:46 +0100." <199602052234.XAA11357@keltia.freenix.fr> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 15:14:36 -0800 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >When I run top, it seems that much more memory is in the Wired column... Is >that expected or is there a problem somewhere ? It's expected. The memory that is associated with filesystem buffers now shows up as "wired" - it was previously accounted for in the "active" memory. FS caching that is not associated with buffers is still "cache" memory, however. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 15:18:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA04633 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04623 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA03804; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:17:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199602052317.PAA03804@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Marty Leisner" cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 14:42:58 PST." <9602052242.AA01191@gnu.mc.xerox.com> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 15:17:21 -0800 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> option to make world ? How about make kernel ?! >>> About make kernel, will "-O2" or "-O2 -m486" make kernel run faster ? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> -- >>> >>> > >I didn't read the message fully before I replied... > >-fomit-frame-pointer is something I've only seen in Linux. > >With -fomit-frame-pointer, you can't debug code...core dumps are >meaningless...Please don't do it!! > >The only place where it may be useful is in the kernel. We strip the symbol table from system utilities before installing them (making debugging impossible), so why do you think -fomit-frame-pointer will make things any worse in this respect? -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 18:39:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA19219 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19207 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA15216; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:31:23 +1100 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:31:23 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602060231.NAA15216@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: davidg@Root.COM, leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>I didn't read the message fully before I replied... >> >>-fomit-frame-pointer is something I've only seen in Linux. >> >>With -fomit-frame-pointer, you can't debug code...core dumps are >>meaningless...Please don't do it!! >> >>The only place where it may be useful is in the kernel. No, the debugging considerations are the same for the kernel, and the improvement from -fomit-frame-pointer is less than for average programs because the kernel does a lot of copying and waiting for cache misses, and has lots of assembler routines that don't use the frame pointer anyway. > We strip the symbol table from system utilities before installing them >(making debugging impossible), so why do you think -fomit-frame-pointer will >make things any worse in this respect? The utilities are easy to reconstruct (perhaps even with full debugging symbols) by recompiling the sources (provided the sources and the compiler, etc., haven't been changed since the binaries were installed). Same for the kernel. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 20:42:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27461 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27443 Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tjfC8-000858C; Mon, 5 Feb 96 22:39 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tjf8T-000COKC; Mon, 5 Feb 96 22:36 WET Message-Id: Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 22:36 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Mon Feb 5 1996, 22:36:09 CST Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [0]Jordan wrote: [0]PLEASE DON'T USE SUP.FREEBSD.ORG TO UPDATE YOURSELF! [1]John Polstra replied: [1]When I try an experiment, and that experiment attempts to delete [1]220 MB of my files, I lose my thirst for adventure very quickly. [1]Nevertheless, if you or somebody else can give me some clue about [1]how to switch to a different sup server without losing all my [1]perfectly good files, I'll try again. [3]Richard Wackerbarth says: [3]As I have pointed out, the cvs tree that I am getting from sup2 also seems [3]to have problems. As a result, my distribution in the name of -stable, [3]reflects the same condition. [3] [3]We MUST get these problems fixed or we all will be forced to "look to the [3]source" for correct data. I must also report similar problems: Sup from sup2 either hangs for hours on end for no apparent reason (no Busy message) and when it does wake up, it starts deleting entire -current trees like mad. Sup from sup3 delivers a corrupted tree where make world fails within ten to forty minutes (sometimes it doesn't get finished cleaning stuff before something goes wrong!) and the kernel will not compile because files are missing, zero-length or truncated. Sup from Sup3 also repeatedly reports that the KerberosIV collection was "invalid" and aborts the sup. I was unwilling to see what sup4 would do to my system. Following these unpleasant experiences, I accessed the "forbidden" sup.freebsd.org and now have a -current kernel that actually links and a make world that has run far longer than in recent memory. (If it makes it beyond building libc it will be a record.) An associate at work has run into the same sort of problems and he was using sup3. Part of his problems were caused by running an outdated config, but with that fixed the kernel would still refuse to compile or link for strange reasons. Make world also failed for him, but in different places than where it dies for me. As the folks in Tuna Texas would say: "It's broke." "Yep, it's broke allright." "No question. More broke than the Piggly Wiggly after that there tornado." I know the updates for recently changed files are present on sup3 as I verified some based on recent -cvs mail, although I don't know if their contents are valid. I also know that files that should be static with relatively old dates seem to be botched so that compiles fail. I have no idea what is wrong with sup2 unless the entire tree is missing or something isn't looking in the right place. I wasn't willing to see if sup2 would delete everything locally before I stopped the carnage. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 20:53:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27754 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:53:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27749 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:52:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA21065; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:46:46 +1100 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:46:46 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602060446.PAA21065@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, davidg@root.com, leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> We strip the symbol table from system utilities before installing them >>(making debugging impossible), so why do you think -fomit-frame-pointer will >>make things any worse in this respect? I wrote: >The utilities are easy to reconstruct (perhaps even with full debugging >symbols) by recompiling the sources (provided the sources and the compiler, >etc., haven't been changed since the binaries were installed). >Same for the kernel. Except for the ^@^%%^&@ vers.o file and similar things that are altered by rebuilding. I think there is only a problem with vers.o if one of the strings becomes longer or shorter. Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 21:50:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00220 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00214 Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10847; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:44:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602060544.VAA10847@precipice.shockwave.com> To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 22:36:00 +0700." Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 21:44:11 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree [0]Jordan wrote: [0]PLEASE DON'T USE SUP.FREEBSD.ORG TO UPDATE YOURSELF! [1]John Polstra replied: [1]When I try an experiment, and that experiment attempts to delete [1]220 MB of my files, I lose my thirst for adventure very quickly. [1]Nevertheless, if you or somebody else can give me some clue about [1]how to switch to a different sup server without losing all my [1]perfectly good files, I'll try again. [3]Richard Wackerbarth says: [3]As I have pointed out, the cvs tree that I am getting from sup2 also seems [3]to have problems. As a result, my distribution in the name of -stable, [3]reflects the same condition. [3] [3]We MUST get these problems fixed or we all will be forced to "look to the [3]source" for correct data. I must also report similar problems: Sup from sup2 either hangs for hours on end for no apparent reason (no Busy message) and when it does wake up, it starts deleting entire -current trees like mad. I use sup2 almost daily and have never had any problems like this since it got into operation. I _use_ this sup server constantly to upgrade my -current sources at home and have done so for the past 2 months. What speed link are you suping over? The kerberosIV collection *IS* invalid. Remove it from your supfile. From owner-freebsd-current Mon Feb 5 23:01:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03811 for current-outgoing; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03806 Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA01709; Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:01:18 -0800 To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 22:36:00 +0700." Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:01:17 -0800 Message-ID: <1707.823590077@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I must also report similar problems: > [details of sup2..supn dysfunction elided] Well, I'm glad you're reporting them, that's all I can really say. Truly! I think that central resources should be flagged ASAP when broken and people should take Extra Special Care in making sure they run right, just as we jump up and down and run around in paniced circles whenever freefall starts having problems. We might not fix things right away, but we certainly manage to look busy! :-) Any suggestions on promoting and facilitating this level of reliability? Would an `admin' mailing list for all FreeBSD.ORG related resources help, or would it merely turn into a source of unwanted messages for admins who already get too much mail? It certainly doesn't seem like such reports should be sent to hackers, anyway. There's too much traffic there. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 00:28:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08495 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08488 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA00439; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:27:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602060827.AAA00439@precipice.shockwave.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV), hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:01:17 PST." <1707.823590077@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 00:27:00 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Let's set up conventions like: freebsd-sup-admin@ freebsd-www-admin@ freebsd-ftp-admin@ and document them in addition to a "mirror-admin@freebsd.org" mailing list. The point being, I don't care if sup3 is broken, but I *do* care violently if sup2 is broken. I also want to get important notifications from you about changes at freefall (which I rarely if ever get now). If something's wrong with sup2, www2, et al, I want to know about it asap. Paul From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree > I must also report similar problems: > [details of sup2..supn dysfunction elided] Well, I'm glad you're reporting them, that's all I can really say. Truly! I think that central resources should be flagged ASAP when broken and people should take Extra Special Care in making sure they run right, just as we jump up and down and run around in paniced circles whenever freefall starts having problems. We might not fix things right away, but we certainly manage to look busy! :-) Any suggestions on promoting and facilitating this level of reliability? Would an `admin' mailing list for all FreeBSD.ORG related resources help, or would it merely turn into a source of unwanted messages for admins who already get too much mail? It certainly doesn't seem like such reports should be sent to hackers, anyway. There's too much traffic there. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 01:10:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA10499 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 01:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10491 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 01:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <26250-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:09:58 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id TAA23235; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:16:02 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id TAA13954; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:09:02 +1000 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:09:02 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199602060909.TAA13954@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: "Marc G. Fournier" cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: compiles hanging X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > I'm getting a weird problem lately, where when I try to compile >something *large*, like the full kernel sources from scratch, after a >period of time, the compile just hangs there. For instance, its currently >at '../../kern/kern_acct.c'. > > If I ctl-c out of the compile and restart it, it continues from >where I stopped it and finishes the kernel. I have this problem with kernels built from sources dated 1996-01-31 and 1996-02-05. A kernel dated 1996-01-08 is ok, but that's kinda old. The system seems quite ok, and responsive, but the compiler or make is spinning wheels madly racking up lots of CPU but getting absolutely nowhere. I tried connecting to a spinning cc with gdb and trying to single step with 'stepi' but it didn't complete, for whatever that is worth. The machine is a 386SX16 with 4MB ram 10MB swap + 3.5MB vnconfig swap using NFS heavily. Memory is short and paging is rampant. I'm planning to compile in KTRACE and DDB to try to track this sucker. Stephen. PS. For the first time ever I have noticed these nonzero entries from vmstat -s: 2 vnode pager pageouts 2 vnode pager pages paged out PPS. It seems infectious, as cron and syslogd seem to be spinning madly now. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 03:46:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA17157 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 03:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw [140.113.122.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA17149 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (8.7.3/8.6.12) id TAA00241 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org.; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:46:48 +0800 (CST) From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199602061146.TAA00241@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> Subject: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:46:48 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi : I think the new pipe is broekn, my Jan31 kernel with sys_pipe.c Rev 1.4 works fine on making world, but Feb6 kernel with sys_pipe.c Rev 1.8 hangs. It just stops at the final line without core, without panic, without causing system load (load = 0.00), just sleep there .... The good news is, my Jan31 kernel is faster, compiling kernel from 10 mins to 7 mins (I am always using -pipe). Great !! And Thanks !! :-) ===> libedit sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -h /home/current/src/lib/libedit/vi.c > vi.h sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -h /home/current/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c > emacs.h sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -h /home/current/src/lib/libedit/common.c > common.h sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -fh vi.h emacs.h common.h > fcns.h sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -bh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /home/current/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /home/current/src/lib/libedit/common.c > help.h sh /home/current/src/lib/libedit/makelist -bc /home/current/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /home/current/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /home/current/src/lib/libedit/common.c > help.c (Zzzzz.....sleep here......nothing happen anymore) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 04:41:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA18974 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA18969 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA02964; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:08:15 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602061238.XAA02964@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: jdli@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (Chien-Ta Lee) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:08:14 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602061146.TAA00241@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> from "Chien-Ta Lee" at Feb 6, 96 07:46:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Chien-Ta Lee stands accused of saying: > > > Hi : > > I think the new pipe is broekn, my Jan31 kernel with sys_pipe.c > Rev 1.4 works fine on making world, but Feb6 kernel with sys_pipe.c > Rev 1.8 hangs. > > It just stops at the final line without core, without panic, without > causing system load (load = 0.00), just sleep there .... In situations like this, you should try to include 'ps alxww' output for the relevant processes so that people can identify what the process is sleeping on. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 04:51:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19305 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA19300 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 04:51:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA02984 for current@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:18:55 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602061248.XAA02984@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Initial 2.2-SNAP experiences... To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:18:54 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, who slipped the Pentium emulator into this SNAP? Seriously, I'm not sure whether sysinstall mounted the disk async or what, but the install really bucketted along (this is on a 386DX33 via FTP). I'm hoping this will get me around the 3-day -current build-tail build-fail cycle and back onto something useful. Ta Jordan, and everyone else who pushed and shoved things around to make it happen. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 05:02:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA19896 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 05:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA19891 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 05:02:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA09503; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:02:12 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:02:12 -0600 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> I must also report similar problems: >> [details of sup2..supn dysfunction elided] >Any suggestions on promoting and facilitating this level of >reliability? Would an `admin' mailing list for all FreeBSD.ORG >related resources help, or would it merely turn into a source of >unwanted messages for admins who already get too much mail? It >certainly doesn't seem like such reports should be sent to hackers, >anyway. There's too much traffic there. I concur. If we can direct the issues of distribution and coordination to a subset, it would help cut down on the traffic for those who have nothing to do with it. OTOH, there is some value in having the existance of a problem more generally known. All in all, I vote for a specialized list. If we set it up, then everyone needs to help in directing each discussion thread to the appropriate focused group. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 06:30:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA07476 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA07463 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA10842; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:28:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:28:29 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602061428.AA10842@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Wayne Scott Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Anyone using AMD with -current? In-Reply-To: <199602052243.OAA22546@ichips.intel.com> References: <199602052243.OAA22546@ichips.intel.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Do anyone here use AMD with -current? Yes. > When I cd to automount dir of same drive that process > freezes. Need more information. wollman@khavrinen(2)$ ls /net/halloran-eldar/homes/wollman INBOX News@ cjr.kit misc/ src/ INBOX~ ana-copyright documents/ plots/ tex-goop/ Mail/ bin/ lib/ pub/ Seems to work just fine for me (server is OSF/1^H^H^H^H^HDigital UNIX). -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 06:44:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA10340 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:44:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA10316 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 06:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tjnZp-000858C; Tue, 6 Feb 96 07:36 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tjnRf-000CniC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 07:28 WET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 07:28 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Feb 6 1996, 07:28:30 CST Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [5]From: Paul Traina [5]What speed link are you suping over? A T1. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 07:32:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA17389 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17365 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tjpOX-0009sfC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 16:33 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: -current: silo overflows ? To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:33:24 +0100 (MET) Organization: A world stranger than you have ever imagined. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Recently I again saw some silo overflow's on my SLIP port. For a long time there haven't been such messages anymore, but now they're back again to come for me :-) I'm using -current as of Feb 04: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT #0: Sun Feb 4 17:10:06 MET 1996 root@deadline.snafu.de:/usr/src/sys/compile/DEADLINE CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 07:48:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA19287 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw [140.113.122.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA19270 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (8.7.3/8.6.12) id XAA00545 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:48:59 +0800 (CST) From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199602061548.XAA00545@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:48:59 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Chien-Ta Lee stands accused of saying: >> >> >> Hi : >> >> I think the new pipe is broekn, my Jan31 kernel with sys_pipe.c >> Rev 1.4 works fine on making world, but Feb6 kernel with sys_pipe.c >> Rev 1.8 hangs. >> >> It just stops at the final line without core, without panic, without >> causing system load (load = 0.00), just sleep there .... > >In situations like this, you should try to include 'ps alxww' output >for the relevant processes so that people can identify what the >process is sleeping on. > Here you are ... UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND 0 524 168 0 10 0 388 792 wait I+ p0 0:00.15 make depend all 0 525 524 0 10 0 480 320 wait I+ p0 0:00.01 /bin/sh -ec sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist -bc /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c > help.c 0 526 525 0 10 0 484 324 wait I+ p0 0:00.02 sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 528 526 0 -6 0 196 96 pipdwc I+ p0 0:00.01 cat /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 529 526 0 -6 0 344 896 piperd I+ p0 0:00.08 awk \n^IBEGIN {\n^I printf("/* Automatically generated file, do not edit */\\n");\n^I printf("#include \\"sys.h\\"\\n#include \\"el.h\\"\\n");\n^I printf("private struct el_bindings_t el_func_help[] = {\\n");\n^I low = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz_";\n^I high = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_";\n^I for (i = 1; i <= length(low); i++)\n^I^Itr[substr(low, i, 1)] = substr(high, i, 1);\n^I}\n^I/\\(\\):/ {\n^I pr = substr($2, 1, 2);\n^I if (pr == "vi" || pr == "em" || pr == "ed") {\n^I^Iname = substr($2, 1, length($2) - 3);\n^I^Iuname = "";\n^I^Ifname = "";\n^I^Ifor (i = 1; i <= length(name); i++) {\n^I^I s = substr(name, i, 1);\n^I^I uname = uname tr[s];\n^I^I if (s == "_")\n^I^I^Is = "-";\n^I^I fname = fname s;\n^I^I}\n^I^I \n^I^Iprintf(" { %-30.30s %-30.30s\\n","\\"" fname "\\",", uname ",");\n^I^Iok = 1; \n^I }\n^I}\n^I/^ \\*/ {\n^I if (ok) {\n^I^Iprintf(" \\"");\! n^I^Ifor (i = 2; i < NF; i++)\n^I^I printf("%s ", $i);\n^I^Iprintf("%s\\" },\\n", $i);\n^I^Iok = 0;\n^I }\n^I}\n^IEND {\n^I printf(" { NULL, 0, NULL }\\n");\n^I printf("};\\n");\n^I printf("\\nprotected el_bindings_t* help__get()");\n^I printf("{ return el_func_help; }\\n");\n^I} From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 08:48:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA23284 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23263 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:48:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602061648.IAA23263@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV), hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 23:01:17 PST." <1707.823590077@time.cdrom.com> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 08:48:23 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Any suggestions on promoting and facilitating this level of >reliability? Would an `admin' mailing list for all FreeBSD.ORG >related resources help, or would it merely turn into a source of >unwanted messages for admins who already get too much mail? It >certainly doesn't seem like such reports should be sent to hackers, >anyway. There's too much traffic there. > > Jordan I think that a method of reliably replicating the collections between servers is in order. I'm not positive that all our servers are using the same lists and even if they are, there's no guarantee that a change to the collections on Freefall will propogate. I'll set something up later this week that will make the whole process automatic for the "child" sup sites. The supserver kit will become four files: supfile, supfile.conf, customize.sh, README. -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 09:24:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24767 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:24:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA24761 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199602061724.JAA24761@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: jdli@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (Chien-Ta Lee) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:24:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602061548.XAA00545@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> from "Chien-Ta Lee" at Feb 6, 96 11:48:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > >Chien-Ta Lee stands accused of saying: > >> > >> > >> Hi : > >> > >> I think the new pipe is broekn, my Jan31 kernel with sys_pipe.c > >> Rev 1.4 works fine on making world, but Feb6 kernel with sys_pipe.c > >> Rev 1.8 hangs. > >> > >> It just stops at the final line without core, without panic, without > >> causing system load (load = 0.00), just sleep there .... > > > >In situations like this, you should try to include 'ps alxww' output > >for the relevant processes so that people can identify what the > >process is sleeping on. > > > > Here you are ... Got the info, and it WILL be useful now for solving the problem!!!! THANKS!!! John Dyson dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 12:03:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06543 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:03:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06532 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA14626; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:03:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199602062003.MAA14626@austin.polstra.com> To: pst@shockwave.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 12:03:25 -0800 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Paul Traina wrote: > If something's wrong with sup2, www2, et al, I want to know about it asap. *Great!* One thing I should have mentioned in my original tirade, but forgot: I sup the CVS tree (src and ports), not the -current tree or anything else. I'm just mentioning it now because it could be germane to the problem of my files getting deleted, if, for example, that tree doesn't exist on sup2. Although there are clearly some problems on the auxiliary sup servers, I really view a lot of this as bugs in the sup software itself. It should be _much_ more reluctant to delete existing files on the client machine. It should be _absolutely_ sure it knows what it's doing before that happens. Anyway, Paul, if you'd like me to help you try some experiments, I'd be willing to back up my sup tree and go for it. -- John PS - Since you were asking about link speeds, mine's a 56K frame relay. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 12:13:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07380 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07342 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA23689 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:13:10 +0100 Message-Id: <199602062013.AA23689@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:13:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Marc G. Fournier" "FIXED: NCR problem until -stable" (Feb 3, 21:49) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: FIXED: NCR problem until -stable Cc: current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 3, 21:49, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: } Subject: FIXED: NCR problem until -stable Sorry, I'm late to join in ... (We had lots of hardware problems yesterday, and I finally had taken a free weekend on last Saturday and Sunday :) } Hi... } } After figuring out that scbus wasn't a known symbol, and } looking through the ncr.c code, I recompiled the kernel using gcc } 2.6.3 instead of 2.7.2, and the system is operational again. } } That's for the lesson in DDB, since without that, I would never } have figured this out on my own. } } One stupid question though...in ncr.c, the "offending" code } was where statements like: } } #if (__FreeBSD__ >= 2) } struct scsibus_data *scbus; } #endif } } happened. Where its checking to see if __FreeBSD__ >= 2...now, } I realize that if my 2.7.2 was proper, this wouldn't happen, but since } this is 2.1-STABLE, is there a reason why those statements aren't just } changed to } } #if (__FreeBSD__) } struct scsibus_data *scbus; } #endif The NCR driver is supposed to still work under 1.1.5.1 (with a little backporting effort), and changing the condition would make this harder ... But I think I'll change it as you suggest, anyway, if there are no complaints ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 12:22:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08049 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08025 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA03106; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:21:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602062021.NAA03106@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:21:33 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Well, I now have a working spu2/CVS synchronization mechanism, so I guess it's time to try again... Here is yet another revision of my FS patches, this time as full source files against a -current checked out source tree from a daily SUP update. These changes *WILL* go in cleanly. I believe they are ready to go into the main source tree following normal review. I believe the path buffer processing changes (the majority of the code changes result from this) to be especially important in light of the recent interest in support for VFAT. VFAT, as you may or may not know, has two name spaces: and 8.3 namespace in the DOS code page, and a 255 Unicode name space for VFAT "long names". In light of the desire to support VFAT, NTFS, and HPFS file systems, it will be necessary to further modiy the path processing algorithms to operate on a component basis, and (potentially) to support multiple down-components (Unicode vs. non-Unicode vs. "short name", etc.). I already have some of these changes (I have a UFS with a modified directory structure, the ability to do case-insensitve lookup via flag, and the ability to store both Unicode and shortname data), but since they are somewhat more controversial they are not included in this patch set. The README uploaded with the patch set follows the signature. If anyone has a problem using these patches, please contact me directly. I am especially interested in NFS client/server effects, since I've only been able to try the server code locally (the NFS patches have not change significantly in two months, at which time I *did* do extensive bidirectional testing -- I don't believe that this will be a significan problem). If you can beat on a system with several "make world"'s and then use "vmstat -m" to verify there are no memory leaks in the path buffers: namei 0 0K 4K 8892K 172739 0 0 1K ^ ^ then I would appreciate it. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. ============================================================================= This is the README for the file ftp://freefall.freebsd.org/FS_PATCHES.tar.gz, my latest FS patches as replacement files against -current as of 4am sup2 SUP on 06 Feb 96. There are 22 modified files in FS_PATCHES.tar.gz: i386/ibcs2/imgact_coff.c isofs/cd9660/cd9660_vnops.c kern/kern_exec.c kern/uipc_usrreq.c kern/vfs_init.c kern/vfs_lookup.c kern/vfs_syscalls.c kern/vfs_vnops.c kern/vnode_if.sh miscfs/devfs/devfs_vnops.c miscfs/procfs/procfs_vnops.c miscfs/union/union_subr.c msdosfs/msdosfs_vnops.c nfs/nfs.h nfs/nfs_node.c nfs/nfs_nqlease.c nfs/nfs_serv.c nfs/nfs_subs.c nfs/nfs_vnops.c nfs/nfsm_subs.h sys/namei.h ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c The patches: o Abstract the path processing. The underlying FS is no longer responsible for freeing cn_pnbuf buffers. o Fix some minor nits in NFS o Get rid of the goto's in vfs_syscalls.c. o Reorder a number of functions to cause them to be single entry/exit. o Add an EXCLUDE flag to CN_FLAGS to force CREATE ops to fail with EEXIST. This allows the removal of a lot of bogus and duplicate error handling code in the namei( CREATE, ...) case. o Move the definition vfs_opv_numops to node_if.c. This is a necessary change to allow the creation of kernels with zero default file systems. The previous code required that at least one file system exist to correctly do initialization. This change is also necessary to allow the addition of ops to the vector tables for new file systems with the recreation of vnode_if.c instead of recompilation of a number of kernel pieces in addition to that (like vfs_init.c, which no longer requires recompilation when the number of ops changes). This undoes some of the bogosity introduced when the Heidemann framework was pounded into BSD 4.4 with a blunt instrument. Since these are full modified files, installing them, followed by a CVS update, followed by a CVS checkin should be sufficient to put them in the current source tree. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 12:52:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA10529 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA10524 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15363(6)>; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:51:50 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20029; Tue, 6 Feb 96 15:51:35 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03467; Tue, 6 Feb 96 15:51:33 EST Message-Id: <9602062051.AA03467@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Bruce Evans Cc: davidg@root.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw Subject: Re: make world with -fomit-frame-pointer In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Feb 1996 18:31:23 PST." <199602060231.NAA15216@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 12:51:25 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > No, the debugging considerations are the same for the kernel, and the > improvement from -fomit-frame-pointer is less than for average programs > because the kernel does a lot of copying and waiting for cache misses, > and has lots of assembler routines that don't use the frame pointer > anyway. > > > We strip the symbol table from system utilities before installing them > >(making debugging impossible), so why do you think -fomit-frame-pointer will > >make things any worse in this respect? > > The utilities are easy to reconstruct (perhaps even with full debugging > symbols) by recompiling the sources (provided the sources and the compiler, > etc., haven't been changed since the binaries were installed). > I talked about size of stripped/debug/non-stripped in Sys Admin last month... Basically there's a 10x penalty for -g, and a 10% penalty not to strip. At a mimimum, libraries should not be made with -fomit-frame-pointer. It would be desirable not to -fomit-frame-pointer in general on utilties, letting people know they can save about 10% by stripping... If you strip, core dumps are useless...(at least without stripping you have a hint of the problem). I don't think regenerating the binaries is a viable option...its often too difficult where a core dump can yield useful information....for any relatively sophisticated user. -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 13:45:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15432 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15423 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tjvD7-000A39C; Tue, 6 Feb 96 22:46 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:46:01 +0100 (MET) Organization: A world stranger than you have ever imagined. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- This is my third mail.... What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? Not that I have anything to say against debugging messages, but this one steadily messes up my sysconsole so that I eventually do miss some _REALLY_ important messages. This ain't funny. Regards, mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 13:59:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA16705 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16680 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:59:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01076; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:59:25 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602062159.NAA01076@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 13:59:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602062021.NAA03106@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 96 01:21:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Well, I now have a working spu2/CVS synchronization mechanism, so I > guess it's time to try again... > I guess i'll try look at it again too :) > > > > o Move the definition vfs_opv_numops to node_if.c. This is a > necessary change to allow the creation of kernels with zero > default file systems. The previous code required that at > least one file system exist to correctly do initialization. hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > > > Since these are full modified files, installing them, followed by a > CVS update, followed by a CVS checkin should be sufficient to put > them in the current source tree. This is not a good idea terry you should do a "cvs diff -c" or similar on the source tree to get diffs the trouble with full files is it's TOO EASY to spam someone else's patches when you over-write the file. With Patches, you get a .rej file in this case so you can merge the two changes.. I think it might be an idea to supply your changes in that form.. julian From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 14:59:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20904 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:59:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from crlabs.com (CRLABS.COM [146.99.201.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20899 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cwiener@localhost) by crlabs.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA09491 for freebsd-current@freefall.cdrom.com; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Wiener Message-Id: <199602062259.RAA09491@crlabs.com> Subject: Re: Tired of isa_dmadone_nobounce messages To: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In datatec.freebsd.current you write: >From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) >Hi! >--- >This is my third mail.... >What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is >it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? Just hack on /sys/i386/isa/isa.c and comment out these messages. Until the sound driver gets integrated into current, this is the easiest way for those of us who are unable to fix the real problem. Rebuild a new kernel with the updated isa.c, and you should be able to see something on your console other than these messages. Chris -- Christopher Wiener N2CR CR Labs, Morris Plains, NJ DOMAIN: cwiener@CRLABS.COM "Live music is better ... bumper stickers should be issued." - Neil Young From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 15:13:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22090 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22069 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA03559; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:10:54 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602062310.QAA03559@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:10:54 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602062159.NAA01076@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 6, 96 01:59:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > o Move the definition vfs_opv_numops to node_if.c. This is a > > necessary change to allow the creation of kernels with zero > > default file systems. The previous code required that at > > least one file system exist to correctly do initialization. > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) "Allow", not "require". DEVFS might be hooked in above the Heidemann framework. 8-). > > Since these are full modified files, installing them, followed by a > > CVS update, followed by a CVS checkin should be sufficient to put > > them in the current source tree. > > This is not a good idea terry > you should do a "cvs diff -c" or similar > on the source tree to get diffs > > the trouble with full files is it's TOO EASY to spam > someone else's patches when you over-write the file. > > With Patches, you get a .rej file in this case so you can merge the two > changes.. > > I think it might be an idea to supply your changes in that form.. Well, the idea is to do a fresh checkout and spam the checked out files and then "cvs update" in case I did spam some changes. I can provide the changes as diffs if you need them that way; I'll warn you that you'll be in exactly the same boat applying them as the original diff sets I sent (that's why I went to the trouble of sup + cvs + ...). In particular, the vfs_syscalls.c changes will be hard to cope with as diffs. Will the local spam + "cvs diff" not work for you? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 15:21:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22808 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22786 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA01295; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:21:39 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602062321.PAA01295@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 15:21:38 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602062310.QAA03559@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 96 04:10:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > the trouble with full files is it's TOO EASY to spam > > someone else's patches when you over-write the file. > > > > With Patches, you get a .rej file in this case so you can merge the two > > changes.. > > > > I think it might be an idea to supply your changes in that form.. that won't work, because if there are changes in the files that you checkout that were not in the versions you used to generate your new files, then those changes are effectively lost. > > Well, the idea is to do a fresh checkout and spam the checked out > files and then "cvs update" in case I did spam some changes. > Ah yes but: now that you have a sup+cvs setup, you can keep your diff sets up-to date relatively easily, and if you send them as diffs then there is a good chance that even if there is a time-lag induced collision, it will be caught and fixed, also many files get changes that are automatically resolved.. as long as you don't check in your changes in your cvs tree, it's much more resistant to spamming, to do it this way.. > I can provide the changes as diffs if you need them that way; I'll warn > you that you'll be in exactly the same boat applying them as the original > diff sets I sent (that's why I went to the trouble of sup + cvs + ...). err why? > > Will the local spam + "cvs diff" not work for you? > From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 16:29:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28226 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:29:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28206 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 16:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA03938; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:26:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:26:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602062321.PAA01295@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 6, 96 03:21:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Ah yes but: > now that you have a sup+cvs setup, you can keep your diff sets up-to date > relatively easily, and if you send them as diffs > then there is a good chance that even if there is a time-lag induced > collision, it will be caught and fixed, > also many files get changes that are automatically resolved.. I have uploaded a FS_PATCHED.diff.gz to incoming on freefall. This was generated with "cvs diff -c" in /sys. The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch", unless you write an awk/perl script to reformat the "cvs diff" file information (this seems to be more work than checking out a spamable tree). > as long as you don't check in your changes in your cvs tree, it's much > more resistant to spamming, to do it this way.. I don't check in my changes to my CVS tree. > > I can provide the changes as diffs if you need them that way; I'll warn > > you that you'll be in exactly the same boat applying them as the original > > diff sets I sent (that's why I went to the trouble of sup + cvs + ...). > > err why? See above. "cvs diff -c" does not result in a file that can be used as input to "patch" without some post-processing. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 17:16:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01578 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01573 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:16:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA06052; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:42:43 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602070112.LAA06052@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:42:43 +1030 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 6, 96 10:46:01 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: > > This is my third mail.... You've been answered at least four times. > What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is > it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? I'd recommend grepping the kernel sources and _finding_out_for_yourself_. FYI, it means that you have a driver somewhere that's not indicating that it's finished with channel 6. What do you have on DRQ6? > Regards, mickey -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 17:45:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02750 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:45:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02738 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:45:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tjyvr-0009QDC; Wed, 7 Feb 96 02:44 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 02:44:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602070112.LAA06052@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 7, 96 11:42:43 am Organization: A world stranger than you have ever imagined. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Michael Smith writes: ] Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: ] > ] > This is my third mail.... ] ] You've been answered at least four times. Sorry, I didn't see at least one. ] > What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is ] > it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? ] ] I'd recommend grepping the kernel sources and _finding_out_for_yourself_. I already did that, but since a change in i386/isa/isa.c does not last for long if you do a daily sup to see what's going on it isn't nice at all to see that you have to do the same thing again and again ... without anyone stating what's up with these. ] FYI, it means that you have a driver somewhere that's not indicating that ] it's finished with channel 6. What do you have on DRQ6? My Soundblaster16 lives on drq 6: sb0 at 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 on isa sb0: sbxvi0 at 0x0 drq 6 on isa sbxvo0: sbmidi0 at 0x330 on isa opl0 at 0x388 on isa opl0: I use the following kernel config: options SBC_IRQ=10 # The soundblaster is on IRQ 10 options "SB16_DMA=6" # Soundblaster 16bit DMA channel 6 controller snd0 device sb0 at isa? port 0x220 irq 10 drq 1 vector sbintr device sbxvi0 at isa? drq 6 device sbmidi0 at isa? port 0x330 device opl0 at isa? port 0x388 Regards, mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 17:55:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03026 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03018 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:55:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA06480; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:22:49 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602070152.MAA06480@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:22:48 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 7, 96 02:44:27 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: > ] I'd recommend grepping the kernel sources and _finding_out_for_yourself_. > > I already did that, but since a change in i386/isa/isa.c does not last > for long if you do a daily sup to see what's going on it isn't nice at all > to see that you have to do the same thing again and again ... without anyone > stating what's up with these. If you have the source, you find the cause of the problem, not remove the error message. > ] FYI, it means that you have a driver somewhere that's not indicating that > ] it's finished with channel 6. What do you have on DRQ6? > > My Soundblaster16 lives on drq 6: Then something in the sound driver is failing to indicate that it's finished a DMA operation, or something similar. Check the complaining function, and the DMA related stuff in the SB driver, fix it and submit the patches! This is what running -current is all about. > Regards, mickey -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 17:59:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03158 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03137 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01737; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:07 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602070159.RAA01737@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 17:59:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 96 05:26:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch", unless > you write an awk/perl script to reformat the "cvs diff" file information > (this seems to be more work than checking out a spamable tree). > it always works for me... Patch is very good about knowing which bits of the patch file are CVS guff, and tends to ignore that.. I've done 150 file patches with a simple "cvs diff -c sys" > See above. "cvs diff -c" does not result in a file that can be used as > input to "patch" without some post-processing. I bet you'd be surprised.. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 18:04:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03618 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03595 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:04:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA04270; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:02:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602070202.TAA04270@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:02:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602070159.RAA01737@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 6, 96 05:59:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > See above. "cvs diff -c" does not result in a file that can be used as > > input to "patch" without some post-processing. > > I bet you'd be surprised.. Well, I'd be *happily* suprised, then... Have you applied the patches yet? I have lots more, but those need to go in first. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 18:42:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06610 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:42:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06592 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tjz8g-00087AC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 19:57 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tjz3q-000CCzC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 19:52 WET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 19:52 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Feb 6 1996, 19:52:42 CST Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [9]From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" [9]Any suggestions on promoting and facilitating this level of [9]reliability? Would an `admin' mailing list for all FreeBSD.ORG [9]related resources help, or would it merely turn into a source of [9]unwanted messages for admins who already get too much mail? It [9]certainly doesn't seem like such reports should be sent to hackers, [9]anyway. There's too much traffic there. Since your assumption that problems getting into sup.freebsd.org is one cause of sup2-n being "strange", why not do the following: 1. Limit sup.freebsd.org to some reduced number of connections (5?). AND 2. Have a second sup daemon running on an undisclosed port number on sup.freebsd.org that only the mirrors sites are told about. Limit that second daemon to the remainder of ten sessions so that the load on sup.freebsd.org won't be any worse than it is now. AND 3. Give the systems on the "approved" mirror list the magic port number. They will have plenty of incentive to switch to the limited access port. (Change the port number once in a while if you feel the load creeping back up.) This should give the mirrors their own personal door to get data from, leaves sup.freebsd.org accessible to the truely desperate (or untrusting) and this should be amazingly easy to set up and see instant benefit. Then after it has been in place for a few weeks, we can see if the other sup sites become less strange. If they don't, there are different problems to be addressed. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 18:43:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06661 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06646 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:43:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tjzJs-00087BC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 20:09 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tjzAx-000CCzC; Tue, 6 Feb 96 20:00 WET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 20:00 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Feb 6 1996, 20:00:03 CST Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [11]"Justin T. Gibbs" [11]I think that a method of reliably replicating the collections between [11]servers is in order. I'm not positive that all our servers are using the [11]same lists and even if they are, there's no guarantee that a change to the [11]collections on Freefall will propogate. I'll set something up later this [11]week that will make the whole process automatic for the "child" sup sites. [11]The supserver kit will become four files: supfile, supfile.conf, [11]customize.sh, README. As I understand sup, it doesn't look for changes the instant you pull stuff down, but does a scan at regular intervals. If that is true, read on. I remember a tool that would cut a snapshot of a directory structure and a file of checksums that could be used to make sure the tree is intact. (It may have been an alias for a "find | sum" combination, I don't recall.) Why not have some other app generate a sanity file just prior to sup synchronizing itself? The file would contain the "correct" tree structure, along with checksums of the files. Then the file would be available to both the mirrors (and mortals), would get sup'ed down as any other file, and could be used for detecting incomplete, corrupted, absent and extra files in their local trees by running a similar scan locally. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 18:55:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07538 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA07525 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA07049; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:22:39 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602070252.NAA07049@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:22:38 +1030 (CST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 7, 96 03:44:52 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: > > I just had a look at isa/sound/sb_dsp.c as well as isa/sound/dmabuf.c and it > seems as if they were actually using isa_dmastart(): > */ > #if defined(__FreeBSD__) > > isa_dmastart (B_RAW | ((dma_mode == DMA_MODE_READ) ? B_READ : B_WRITE), > (caddr_t)dmap->raw_buf_phys[0], > dmap->bytes_in_use, > chan); > #else /* else __FreeBSD__ */ Looks OK. I would be guessing then that DMAbuf_reset_dma is being called without a matching DMA operation. > (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 19:39:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA16529 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16522 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by nervosa.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA02017; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:39:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:39:12 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: FreeBSD-current Subject: Please don't shoot me for asking this stupid question. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk But what is the difference between sup and cvs? Is cvs used only to retain revision information? Or can it be used as a way to update the sources as sup does? Also, has anyone seen sup start totally retrieving a tree you already have. I ran it today off of sup.freebsd.org, and it started to redownload the entire gnu-current tree, the /usr/sup directory is intact, my standard-supfile is fine, and the last.current is dated februrary 3rd, why would it do this? Any help appreciated. Chris Layne, coredump@nervosa.com. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 19:42:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA16815 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:42:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16810 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by nervosa.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA02028; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:42:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:42:06 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: FreeBSD-current Subject: Please don't shoot me for asking this stupid question. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk But what is the difference between sup and cvs? Is cvs used only to retain revision information? Or can it be used as a way to update the sources as sup does? Also, has anyone seen sup start totally retrieving a tree you already have. I ran it today off of sup.freebsd.org, and it started to redownload the entire gnu-current tree, the /usr/sup directory is intact, my standard-supfile is fine, and the last.current is dated februrary 3rd, why would it do this? Any help appreciated. Chris Layne, coredump@nervosa.com. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 20:40:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21272 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from nervosa.com (nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21253 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by nervosa.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA03815; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:36:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:36:50 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: Frank Durda IV cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I agree, a method of checksums (filesize, crc, etc.) should be used in order to find the latest copy. I thought sup already did this? Or does it only check dates? Chris Layne, coredump@nervosa.com. > As I understand sup, it doesn't look for changes the instant you pull > stuff down, but does a scan at regular intervals. If that is true, > read on. > > I remember a tool that would cut a snapshot of a directory structure and > a file of checksums that could be used to make sure the tree is intact. > (It may have been an alias for a "find | sum" combination, I don't recall.) > > Why not have some other app generate a sanity file just prior to sup > synchronizing itself? The file would contain the "correct" tree > structure, along with checksums of the files. Then the file would be > available to both the mirrors (and mortals), would get sup'ed down as > any other file, and could be used for detecting incomplete, corrupted, > absent and extra files in their local trees by running a similar > scan locally. > > > Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" > ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 20:45:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21575 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21545 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA25414; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:45:04 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199602070445.UAA25414@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:45:04 -0800 (PST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 96 05:26:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Ah yes but: > > now that you have a sup+cvs setup, you can keep your diff sets up-to date > > relatively easily, and if you send them as diffs > > then there is a good chance that even if there is a time-lag induced > > collision, it will be caught and fixed, > > also many files get changes that are automatically resolved.. > > I have uploaded a FS_PATCHED.diff.gz to incoming on freefall. > > This was generated with "cvs diff -c" in /sys. > > The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch", unless > you write an awk/perl script to reformat the "cvs diff" file information > (this seems to be more work than checking out a spamable tree). The output of cvs diff -c should be very usable by patch, that is what the Index lines are added for. There use to be problems in that patch would pick the wrong path to the file, this has been fixed in a recent version of patch that gives the Index line higher precedence than the other pathnames. > > > I can provide the changes as diffs if you need them that way; I'll warn > > > you that you'll be in exactly the same boat applying them as the original > > > diff sets I sent (that's why I went to the trouble of sup + cvs + ...). > > > > err why? > > See above. "cvs diff -c" does not result in a file that can be used as > input to "patch" without some post-processing. If this is true again then either cvs or patch needs some work. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 20:56:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA22245 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22240 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA00454; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:55:15 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602070455.UAA00454@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 20:55:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: root@deadline.snafu.de, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602070252.NAA07049@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 7, 96 01:22:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: > > > > I just had a look at isa/sound/sb_dsp.c as well as isa/sound/dmabuf.c and it > > seems as if they were actually using isa_dmastart(): > > */ > > #if defined(__FreeBSD__) > > > > isa_dmastart (B_RAW | ((dma_mode == DMA_MODE_READ) ? B_READ : B_WRITE), > > (caddr_t)dmap->raw_buf_phys[0], > > dmap->bytes_in_use, > > chan); > > #else /* else __FreeBSD__ */ > > Looks OK. I would be guessing then that DMAbuf_reset_dma is being called > without a matching DMA operation. I think the problem is more likely that it isn't FINISHING it up correctly. rather than not starting it.. there are from my vague memory 3 parts setup DMA release I think that if you do a setup and release wasn't ever called, it works but complains.. mind you I haven't really looked at it since 386bsd so don't trust what I say.... > > > (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de > > -- > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ > ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ > ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ > ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ > From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 21:04:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22741 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:04:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from main (tty20.com2.houston.net [198.65.148.85]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22736 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 21:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gclarkii@localhost) by main (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA01650 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:05:32 -0600 From: Gary Clark II Message-Id: <199602070505.XAA01650@main> Subject: Change to RELNOTES/INSTALL NOTES To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:04:15 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: gclarkii@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I did not want to go sticking my fingers into someone else's pie so I'll post this here. I've just done a 2.1(yes it old, but hold on...) about a week ago and ran into a BAD problem. My ISP uses BSDI machines as terminal servers and when I connected my ppp would go nuts. The problem with with the pred1(?) compression OR lqr(?). Either of both of these need to be turned off to properly load the system over ppp. We need to make a note that if this shows up (It comes up in the log as bad magic I belive), we to turn these off. Could who ever maintains the release notes/install notes make this change or let me know and I will do so. Gary Gary Clark II (N5VMF) gclarkii@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 22:10:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA27390 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27383 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:10:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <23264-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:09:35 +1000 Received: from orion.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id QAA29142 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:03:05 +1000 Received: by orion.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-0.3) id PAA22140; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:56:51 +1000 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:56:51 +1000 From: Stephen McKay Message-Id: <199602070556.PAA22140@orion.devetir.qld.gov.au> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: syssgm@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: Re: compiles hanging X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Stephen McKay wrote: >"Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > >> [Stuck compile description elided] > >I have this problem with kernels built from sources dated 1996-01-31 >and 1996-02-05. A kernel dated 1996-01-08 is ok, but that's kinda old. >The machine is a 386SX16 with 4MB ram 10MB swap + 3.5MB vnconfig swap using >NFS heavily. Memory is short and paging is rampant. Replying to myself here (proving that everyone else is asleep or there's some huge party in the USA that I've not been invited to): I've noticed that, in the output from vmstat -s, both 'traps' and 'total VM faults taken' are increasing at the rate of about 2150 per second. If this was for real, this would imply about 8MB/s is being faulted in. I don't think my little 386SX could do anything of the sort. Thus, my theory is that it is faulting and the fault handler is not producing the goods, whether it is the wrong page, or the right page but not in the page tables, or some such. Whichever it might be, it seems unlikely that I will be able to find the answer, seeing as the VM system is so simple and straight-forward. :-) Over to you John and David! Stephen. From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 22:59:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA02511 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02495 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 22:59:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602070659.WAA02495@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 20:00:00 +0700." Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 22:59:33 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >[11]"Justin T. Gibbs" >[11]I think that a method of reliably replicating the collections between >[11]servers is in order. I'm not positive that all our servers are using the >[11]same lists and even if they are, there's no guarantee that a change to the >[11]collections on Freefall will propogate. I'll set something up later this >[11]week that will make the whole process automatic for the "child" sup sites. >[11]The supserver kit will become four files: supfile, supfile.conf, >[11]customize.sh, README. > >As I understand sup, it doesn't look for changes the instant you pull >stuff down, but does a scan at regular intervals. If that is true, >read on. You have the option for caching inode information for the collection to improve scalability. In the case of serving these types of collections, there won't be a cached scan file, and the scan will happen at the time a client connects. >Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" >or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!! >" > ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" >or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Tue Feb 6 23:17:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA04111 for current-outgoing; Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04088 Tue, 6 Feb 1996 23:17:48 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602070717.XAA04088@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 19:52:00 +0700." Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 23:17:48 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >2. Have a second sup daemon running on an undisclosed port number > on sup.freebsd.org that only the mirrors sites are told about. > Limit that second daemon to the remainder of ten sessions so that > the load on sup.freebsd.org won't be any worse than it is now. >AND >3. Give the systems on the "approved" mirror list the magic port number. > They will have plenty of incentive to switch to the limited access > port. (Change the port number once in a while if you feel the load > creeping back up.) SUP has access lists for just this purpose. You can designate friends, enemies and wildcards for generic access. Friends have there own access limit that is different than anyone else. The mirror sites are already friends of sup.FreeBSD.org. >Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" >or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!! >" > ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" >or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 00:14:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA09084 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:14:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09077 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:13:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id TAA21647; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:12:46 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199602070812.TAA21647@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:12:45 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Feb 6, 96 07:52:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Frank Durda IV writes: > Since your assumption that problems getting into sup.freebsd.org is one > cause of sup2-n being "strange", .. This is probably a symptom of the disease itself .. the more heavily loaded freefall becomes, the less likely it is that mirrors will be able to get in and out quickly with coherent source trees. Then, as people realise the inconsistencies, they come back again (and again) to get the bits they think are wrong .. the problem just exponentiates. > why not do the following: [ .. lots of constructive suggestions .. ] It depends on where the load is .. if it's CPU and network related rather than disk, is it not possible to (NQ?)NFS-mount the relevant pieces of freefall's file structure and offer it to the mirrors via a separate interface and IP number or is the load of running an NFS server worse than the original disease ? michael From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 00:23:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA09719 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:23:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09620 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16573 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:21:39 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00650 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:21:39 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA04729 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:14:13 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602070814.JAA04729@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Tired of isa_dmadone_nobounce messages To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:14:13 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602062259.RAA09491@crlabs.com> from "Chris Wiener" at Feb 6, 96 05:59:05 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Chris Wiener wrote: > >What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, ... > Just hack on /sys/i386/isa/isa.c and comment out these messages. Until arrrrg. (The messages are there to bother people _fixing_ things, not hiding the problems again.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 00:26:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA09889 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09701 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 00:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA16568; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:21:36 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00649; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:21:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA04702; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:12:06 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602070812.JAA04702@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:12:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 6, 96 10:46:01 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Andreas S. Wetzel wrote: > This is my third mail.... But the first answer has been given in -current even before your first mail there popped up. :) Thoroughful follow -current... > What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is > it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? I suspect you've got a broken sounddriver on a device that uses DMA channel 6, have you? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 01:04:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA11735 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 01:04:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA11730 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 01:04:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA17580 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 01:02:36 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA18139; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:52:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00847; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:52:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA05247; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:42:54 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602070842.JAA05247@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:42:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, root@deadline.snafu.de Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602070455.UAA00454@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 6, 96 08:55:14 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Looks OK. I would be guessing then that DMAbuf_reset_dma is being called > > without a matching DMA operation. > > I think the problem is more likely that it isn't FINISHING it up correctly. I thought it was finishing it more than once? (Quick guess, based on the message only.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 01:06:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA11817 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 01:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA11539 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 01:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA18147; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:52:08 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA00851; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:52:07 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA05131; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:35:31 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602070835.JAA05131@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-current users) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:35:30 +0100 (MET) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602070202.TAA04270@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 6, 96 07:02:20 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > Have you applied the patches yet? I have lots more, but those need to > go in first. 8-). Please, restrict this discussion to one of the lists. There's no need to bother the recipients of two lists, in particular, since the joint set of the members of both lists is rather large. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 02:16:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA16960 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 02:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16945 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 02:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tk6vt-0009W0C; Wed, 7 Feb 96 11:17 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:17:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602070812.JAA04702@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 7, 96 09:12:06 am Organization: A world stranger than you have ever imagined. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- J Wunsch writes: ] As Andreas S. Wetzel wrote: ] ] > This is my third mail.... ] ] But the first answer has been given in -current even before your first ] mail there popped up. :) Thoroughful follow -current... Sorry if I didn't see that... ] > What's this "isa_dmadone_nobounce: channel 6 not busy" message, and what is ] > it good for? And if it's not good for anything why is it still there? ] ] I suspect you've got a broken sounddriver on a device that uses DMA ] channel 6, have you? On channel 6 there is my Soundblaster16, but this also happens on the 8 bit DMA channel of the Soundblaster. I looked over it yesterday and this seems to happen everytime when the first data is being written to the audio device after it has been opened and initialized. But until now I have no idea why this could happen. The sounddrivers look as if they were correctly using isa_dmastart and isa_dmadone_nobounce. Regards, Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 04:51:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25800 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 04:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw [140.113.122.84]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA25793 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 04:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw (8.7.3/8.6.12) id UAA00303 for freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:52:25 +0800 (CST) From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199602071252.UAA00303@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:52:25 +0800 (CST) Reply-To: jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Try the new sys_pipe.c now... > Bad luck, it is still out of work .... sys_pipe.c Rev 1.9 "cd /usr/src/lib/libedit; make clean depend all" still hangs.... UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND 0 230 161 64 10 0 388 796 wait I+ v1 0:00.15 make clean depend all 0 269 230 64 10 0 480 320 wait I+ v1 0:00.01 /bin/sh -ec sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist -bc /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c > help.c 0 270 269 64 10 0 484 324 wait I+ v1 0:00.01 sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 272 270 64 -6 0 196 96 pipdwc I+ v1 0:00.01 cat /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 273 270 67 -6 0 344 896 piperd I+ v1 0:00.08 awk \n^IBEGIN {\n^I printf("/* Automatically generated file, do not edit */\\n");\n^I printf("#include \\"sys.h\\"\\n#include \\"el.h\\"\\n");\n^I printf("private struct el_bindings_t el_func_help[] = {\\n");\n^I low = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz_";\n^I high = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_";\n^I for (i = 1; i <= length(low); i++)\n^I^Itr[substr(low, i, 1)] = substr(high, i, 1);\n^I}\n^I/\\(\\):/ {\n^I pr = substr($2, 1, 2);\n^I if (pr == "vi" || pr == "em" || pr == "ed") {\n^I^Iname = substr($2, 1, length($2) - 3);\n^I^Iuname = "";\n^I^Ifname = "";\n^I^Ifor (i = 1; i <= length(name); i++) {\n^I^I s = substr(name, i, 1);\n^I^I uname = uname tr[s];\n^I^I if (s == "_")\n^I^I^Is = "-";\n^I^I fname = fname s;\n^I^I}\n^I^I \n^I^Iprintf(" { %-30.30s %-30.30s\\n","\\"" fname "\\",", uname ",");\n^I^Iok = 1; \n^I }\n^I}\n^I/^ \\*/ {\n^I if (ok) {\n^I^Iprintf(" \\"");\! n^I^Ifor (i = 2; i < NF; i++)\n^I^I printf("%s ", $i);\n^I^Iprintf("%s\\" },\\n", $i);\n^I^Iok = 0;\n^I }\n^I}\n^IEND {\n^I printf(" { NULL, 0, NULL }\\n");\n^I printf("};\\n");\n^I printf("\\nprotected el_bindings_t* help__get()");\n^I printf("{ return el_func_help; }\\n");\n^I} From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 05:44:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA29188 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 05:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA29166 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 05:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gundula.cs.tu-berlin.de (wosch@gundula.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.46]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA18436; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:35:37 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider Received: (wosch@localhost) by gundula.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA15752; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:35:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:35:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199602071335.OAA15752@gundula.cs.tu-berlin.de> To: Bruce Evans Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: chown in bsd.doc.mk and bsd.info.mk In-Reply-To: <199601310201.NAA06888@godzilla.zeta.org.au> References: <199601310201.NAA06888@godzilla.zeta.org.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Conversion: prohibited Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: >Actually, the chown shouldn't be there at all. The directory should >be created by mtree, not by `mkdir -p' in the Makefile. > >bsd.prog.mk has a silly `chown games.bin' of a symlink. chown(8) is >now a no-op. Here is the patch. Please test if make realinstall works (it should). Wolfram --- 1.1 1996/02/06 15:18:51 +++ bsd.doc.mk 1996/02/06 16:28:02 @@ -88,21 +88,13 @@ clean: rm -f ${DOC}.${PRINTER} ${DOC}.ps ${DOC}.ascii \ - ${DOC}.ps.gz ${DOC}.ascii.gz [eE]rrs mklog ${CLEANFILES} + ${DOC}.ps.gz ${DOC}.ascii.gz Errs errs mklog ${CLEANFILES} cleandir: clean cd ${.CURDIR}; rm -rf obj FILES?= ${SRCS} realinstall: - @if [ ! -d "${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME}" ]; then \ - /bin/rm -f ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME} ; \ - mkdir -p ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME} ; \ - chown root.wheel ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME} ; \ - chmod 755 ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME} ; \ - else \ - true ; \ - fi ${INSTALL} ${COPY} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${DFILE} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}/${VOLUME} --- 1.1 1996/02/06 15:18:51 +++ bsd.info.mk 1996/02/06 15:40:25 @@ -66,20 +66,12 @@ .endif clean: - rm -f ${INFO:S/$/.info*/g} [eE]rrs mklog ${CLEANFILES} + rm -f ${INFO:S/$/.info*/g} Errs errs mklog ${CLEANFILES} cleandir: clean cd ${.CURDIR}; rm -rf obj install: - @if [ ! -d "${DESTDIR}${BINDIR}" ]; then \ - /bin/rm -f ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} ; \ - mkdir -p ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} ; \ - chown root.wheel ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} ; \ - chmod 755 ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} ; \ - else \ - true ; \ - fi ${INSTALL} ${COPY} -o ${BINOWN} -g ${BINGRP} -m ${BINMODE} \ ${IFILES} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} --- 1.1 1996/02/06 15:18:51 +++ bsd.kmod.mk 1996/02/06 15:24:01 @@ -74,13 +74,13 @@ .if !target(clean) clean: _PROGSUBDIR - rm -f a.out [Ee]rrs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} + rm -f a.out Errs errs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} .endif .if !target(cleandir) cleandir: _PROGSUBDIR - rm -f a.out [Ee]rrs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} - rm -f ${.CURDIR}/tags .depend + rm -f a.out [Ee]rrs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} \ + ${.CURDIR}/tags .depend cd ${.CURDIR}; rm -rf obj; .endif --- 1.1 1996/02/06 15:18:51 +++ bsd.prog.mk 1996/02/06 15:41:45 @@ -138,13 +138,13 @@ .if !target(clean) clean: _PROGSUBDIR - rm -f a.out [Ee]rrs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} + rm -f a.out Errs errs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} .endif .if !target(cleandir) cleandir: _PROGSUBDIR - rm -f a.out [Ee]rrs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} - rm -f ${.CURDIR}/tags .depend + rm -f a.out Errs errs mklog ${PROG} ${OBJS} ${CLEANFILES} \ + ${.CURDIR}/tags .depend cd ${.CURDIR}; rm -rf obj; .endif @@ -162,8 +162,7 @@ ${INSTALLFLAGS} ${PROG} ${DESTDIR}${BINDIR} .endif .if defined(HIDEGAME) - (cd ${DESTDIR}/usr/games; rm -f ${PROG}; ln -s dm ${PROG}; \ - chown games.bin ${PROG}) + (cd ${DESTDIR}/usr/games; rm -f ${PROG}; ln -s dm ${PROG}) .endif .if defined(LINKS) && !empty(LINKS) @set ${LINKS}; \ --- 1.1 1996/02/06 15:18:51 +++ bsd.sgml.mk 1996/02/06 15:23:26 @@ -50,7 +50,7 @@ .endif clean: ${FORMATS:S/^/clean-/g} - rm -f [eE]rrs mklog + rm -f Errs errs mklog cleandir: clean cd ${.CURDIR}; rm -rf obj From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 06:10:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00820 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from miller.cs.uwm.edu (miller.cs.uwm.edu [129.89.9.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00809 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from james@localhost) by miller.cs.uwm.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05624; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:10:09 -0600 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:10:09 -0600 From: Jim Lowe Message-Id: <199602071410.IAA05624@miller.cs.uwm.edu> To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, root@deadline.snafu.de Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The problem is that someone changed the isa.c dma_start code and the sound code a week or so ago and didn't complete the required changes. They added the code to set dma_dusy[], but didn't add the code to clear dma_busy[] in dmabuf.c. Thus, the messages. I hope this person will eventually fix what he broke or back out his changes -- since it is effecting a lot of people who use this code. -Jim From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 07:08:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04827 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04807 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:08:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA19245; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:08:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:08:00 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602071508.AA19245@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < Why not have some other app generate a sanity file just prior to sup > synchronizing itself? This is trivial to do with mtree(8). `mtree -c -k type,size,md5digest' will generate a file such as the following: # user: wollman # machine: khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu # tree: /homes/www/fccdb/tv # date: Wed Feb 7 10:07:00 1996 # . /set type=file . type=dir size=512 dadb.dat size=2185146 md5digest=308569da7ad8edeaf6c091c220e79dcc dadiction.txt \ size=20260 md5digest=86157fa1ba227d1b354eca408d5ee062 dadiction.txt.bak \ size=22952 md5digest=49146ae1f7dc7c0f2fbc6d4d0269c2a5 dadiction.txt~ \ size=20708 md5digest=594ed1815da95bf7c5b5388b633fe53d tvdadb.dat size=2354271 md5digest=a988653e01e540d6064038f978b7c7a0 tvdadiction.txt \ size=22952 md5digest=49146ae1f7dc7c0f2fbc6d4d0269c2a5 tvdadiction.txt~ \ size=22952 md5digest=49146ae1f7dc7c0f2fbc6d4d0269c2a5 tvdb.dat size=5134864 md5digest=cac9bbf8490171606a6f1ad343e07752 tvdiction.txt \ size=25955 md5digest=3ca56d717d0b84aa0f36a390601ab1a7 tvdiction.txt.bak \ size=25955 md5digest=3ca56d717d0b84aa0f36a390601ab1a7 tvdiction.txt~ \ size=25955 md5digest=3ca56d717d0b84aa0f36a390601ab1a7 .. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 08:50:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA11612 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from neworder.cc.uky.edu (neworder.cc.uky.edu [128.163.18.198]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11607 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from soward@localhost) by neworder.cc.uky.edu (8.7/Soward0.1) id LAA25381 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:51:12 -0500 (GMT-0500) Message-Id: <199602071651.LAA25381@neworder.cc.uky.edu> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: <199602071410.IAA05624@miller.cs.uwm.edu> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.0) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: John Soward Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 11:51:10 -0500 To: current@freebsd.org Subject: 7880 driver in SNAP Reply-To: soward@service1.uky.edu References: <199602071410.IAA05624@miller.cs.uwm.edu> Organization: University of Kentucky Technical Services X-URL: "http://neworder.cc.uky.edu/" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I just loaded the 2.2-960130-SNAP on a new HP XU 6/150 Pentium Pro. Of course, it didn't like the HP ethernet card, but it also coughed up some error with the 7880 -- still worked though...iozone performance is only about 3Meg/sec which is worse than a 2940+Hawk+P100... Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0 r ev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:2 Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: checksum error Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: SEEPROM read failed, using leftover BIOS v alues Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) --- John Soward JpS Systems Programmer 'The Midnight sun will burn you up.' University of Kentucky (NeXT and MIME mail OK) -R. Smith :::I'm not speaking for UK. I may not even be speaking for myself::: From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 09:51:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14827 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:51:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14814 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA26201; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:51:03 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199602071751.JAA26201@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: 7880 driver in SNAP To: soward@service1.uky.edu Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602071651.LAA25381@neworder.cc.uky.edu> from "John Soward" at Feb 7, 96 11:51:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I just loaded the 2.2-960130-SNAP on a new HP XU 6/150 Pentium Pro. Of > course, it didn't like the HP ethernet card, but it also coughed up some error > with the 7880 -- still worked though...iozone performance is only about > 3Meg/sec which is worse than a 2940+Hawk+P100... THe Quantum fireball drive in this machine is a 4500RPM 12mS drive that can only do about 3MB/s no matter what you hook it to. The Seagate Hawk drives are 5400RPM 9mS drives that can do 5 to 6MB/sec. Your not comparing Apples with Apples!!! Now don't be surprized when you stick the hawk in the PPro 150 and it only goes to 4.5MB/s. The Orion chipset used in all P6 machines has some rather serious problems :-( > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0 r > ev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:2 > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: checksum error > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: SEEPROM read failed, using leftover BIOS v > alues > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 > fixed SCSI 2 > Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1042MB (2134305 512 > byte sectors) > > --- > John Soward JpS > Systems Programmer 'The Midnight sun will burn you up.' > University of Kentucky (NeXT and MIME mail OK) -R. Smith > :::I'm not speaking for UK. I may not even be speaking for myself::: > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 09:55:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA15083 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from iworks.InterWorks.org (iworks.interworks.org [128.255.18.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15070 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by iworks.InterWorks.org (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA19076; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:53:16 -0600 Message-Id: <9602071753.AA19076@iworks.InterWorks.org> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:53:16 -0600 From: "Daniel M. Eischen" To: current@FreeBSD.org, soward@service1.uky.edu Subject: Re: 7880 driver in SNAP Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I just loaded the 2.2-960130-SNAP on a new HP XU 6/150 Pentium Pro. Of >course, it didn't like the HP ethernet card, but it also coughed up some error >with the 7880 -- still worked though...iozone performance is only about >3Meg/sec which is worse than a 2940+Hawk+P100... > >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0 r >ev 0 int a irq 9 on pci0:2 >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: checksum error >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: SEEPROM read failed, using leftover BIOS v >alues >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: ahc0: aic7880 Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 16 SCBs >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: (ahc0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 >fixed SCSI 2 >Feb 6 14:09:17 test63 /kernel: sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1042MB (2134305 512 > byte sectors) The "error" message is merely informational. The on-board aic7xxx chips do not have a serial EEPROM; they have non-volatile RAM in which the BIOS settings are stored. The driver knows how to read a serial EEPROM but not NVRAM (and fails the checksum test in reading the serial EEPROM) so it just uses BIOS settings leftover in scratch RAM on the card. Dan Eischen deischen@iworks.InterWorks.org From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 09:58:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA15283 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15275 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:58:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602071758.JAA15275@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: soward@service1.uky.edu cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7880 driver in SNAP In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 1996 11:51:10 EST." <199602071651.LAA25381@neworder.cc.uky.edu> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 09:58:34 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I just loaded the 2.2-960130-SNAP on a new HP XU 6/150 Pentium Pro. Of >course, it didn't like the HP ethernet card, but it also coughed up some error > >with the 7880 -- still worked though...iozone performance is only about >3Meg/sec which is worse than a 2940+Hawk+P100... I guess I should change the error message so people don't think its as much of a problem. Most motherboard controllers do not have a Serial EEPROM, so you have to rely on the work that the BIOS did. It should work fine. As to speed, a faster processor won't fix a slow disk. >--- >John Soward JpS >Systems Programmer 'The Midnight sun will burn you up.' >University of Kentucky (NeXT and MIME mail OK) -R. Smith >:::I'm not speaking for UK. I may not even be speaking for myself::: -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 11:55:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22735 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22730 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:55:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15772(14)>; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:51:06 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:18:19 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 16:26:27 PST." <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 11:18:06 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Feb7.111819pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com>you write: >The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch" You missed the "Index:" lines that cvs diff generates; they tell patch which file to patch. (The FS_PATCHES.diff.gz that exists on freefall right now is not a context diff, btw) Bill From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 12:20:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24460 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24452 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06210 for current@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:19:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602072019.NAA06210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: CVS ISSUES To: current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:19:10 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Julian Elisher has noted some issues and I have tracked their source to an (apparent) bug in CVS. 1) SUP the main CVS tree 2) Checkout a source tree 3) Modify a file 4) The same file is modified by another person in the real source tree 5) SUP update the local source tree copy.x 6) CVS merge 7) Changes in step #4 are apparently backed out in the merge This isn't a problem if you always check in your modifications to the main line tree, only if you are running a SUP update automatically instead of manually. Why wasn't the diff against the version at the time of checkout used to generate the patches applied to the current version (*NOT* the version at the time of checkout, but a later version), and that diff applied against the later (current via SUP) version? I think that CVS is not paying as much attention to the checked out tree as it should, specifically in light of "proiscuous" changes to the CVS tree vs. SUP. Opinions? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 12:30:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24894 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24889 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06226; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:27:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602072027.NAA06226@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Please don't shoot me for asking this stupid question. (fwd) To: coredump@nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:27:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 6, 96 07:42:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > But what is the difference between sup and cvs? Is cvs used only to > retain revision information? Or can it be used as a way to update the > sources as sup does? Also, has anyone seen sup start totally retrieving a > tree you already have. I ran it today off of sup.freebsd.org, and it > started to redownload the entire gnu-current tree, the /usr/sup directory > is intact, my standard-supfile is fine, and the last.current is dated > februrary 3rd, why would it do this? Any help appreciated. man cvs man sup CVS is a version control system. It can also act as a client/server for a remote repository. SUP is a distribution/mirroring mechanism. Typical usage: 1) use SUP to mirror a copy of the CVS source tree at intervals (usually under "cron"). 2) use CVS to check out, diff, and path (update/merge) your source changes to the sources before submitting your changes. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 12:32:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24989 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24967 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA06238; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:29:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602072029.NAA06238@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:29:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb7.111819pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Feb 7, 96 11:18:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com>you write: > >The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch" > > You missed the "Index:" lines that cvs diff generates; they tell patch which > file to patch. (The FS_PATCHES.diff.gz that exists on freefall right now is > not a context diff, btw) I know. That was the source of my consternation. I specified a comamnd line of "cvs diff -c" and that is what came out. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 13:37:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28899 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (root@ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28887 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:37:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24116 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:36:53 GMT Message-Id: <199602072136.VAA24116@veda.is> Subject: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:36:49 +0000 (GMT) From: "Adam David" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The problem that I had been experiencing with some TCP/IP connections not working (typically manifesting as input being received but output not being sent) can be worked around by setting the MTU to 552 on the relevant network interface. This problem started in -current sometime around November/December AFAIK, I have not taken serious time to track down the cause. Perhaps this is also what has been affecting freefall recently? -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 13:55:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00499 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:55:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00494 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00382; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:55:29 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602072155.NAA00382@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: CVS ISSUES To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 13:55:29 -0800 (PST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602072019.NAA06210@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 7, 96 01:19:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Julian Elisher has noted some issues and I have tracked their source > to an (apparent) bug in CVS. > > > 1) SUP the main CVS tree > 2) Checkout a source tree > 3) Modify a file > 4) The same file is modified by another person in the > real source tree > 5) SUP update the local source tree copy.x > 6) CVS merge > 7) Changes in step #4 are apparently backed out in the merge > > > This isn't a problem if you always check in your modifications to > the main line tree, only if you are running a SUP update automatically > instead of manually. > > Why wasn't the diff against the version at the time of checkout > used to generate the patches applied to the current version (*NOT* > the version at the time of checkout, but a later version), and > that diff applied against the later (current via SUP) version? > > I think that CVS is not paying as much attention to the checked out > tree as it should, specifically in light of "proiscuous" changes to > the CVS tree vs. SUP. > > Opinions? Terry I think that what must have happend to you is a artifact (no not an artisoft) of possibly having to install everything piece-meal. probably it was a boundary condition of getting started.. what you suggest above is how I do ALL my development. it hasn't gone wrong ONCE. Hopefully now that you are up and going everything will work fine.. how about checking the following : wait for a commit message on the kernel. go to your sys checked out tree, make some change to the file that the commit was about. sup the new CVS tree. (check the new change arrives) do a cvs diff check what is in the diff do a cvs update check the file got the new changes do a cvs diff check the contents again. remove the file cvs update it again to refetch the unmodified (by you) version > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 15:06:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA05475 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05470 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA06706; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:04:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602072304.QAA06706@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: CVS ISSUES To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:04:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602072155.NAA00382@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 7, 96 01:55:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Terry I think that what must have happend to you is a artifact > (no not an artisoft) of possibly having to install > everything piece-meal. > probably it was a boundary condition of getting started.. > what you suggest above is how I do ALL my development. > it hasn't gone wrong ONCE. Hopefully now that you are up and going > everything will work fine.. > > how about checking the following : > > wait for a commit message on the kernel. > go to your sys checked out tree, > make some change to the file that the commit was about. > sup the new CVS tree. (check the new change arrives) > do a cvs diff > check what is in the diff > do a cvs update > check the file got the new changes > do a cvs diff > check the contents again. > remove the file > cvs update it again to refetch the unmodified (by you) version I will try this diagnostic and let you know. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 16:01:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA09864 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09859 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA06604; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:01:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:01:05 -0800 From: John Polstra Message-Id: <199602080001.QAA06604@austin.polstra.com> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION Newsgroups: polstra.freebsd.current In-Reply-To: <199602070445.UAA25414@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199602070445.UAA25414@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Rod writes: > There use to be problems in that patch > would pick the wrong path to the file, this has been fixed in a recent > version of patch that gives the Index line higher precedence than the > other pathnames. That was a big surprise to me, because the manual page says (said) the exact opposite. I have just now fixed the manual page and committed it. -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 21:36:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA17542 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from deep-thought.demos.su (root@deep-thought.demos.su [194.87.1.76]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA17396 Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by deep-thought.demos.su id IAA25539; (8.7.3/D) Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:35:46 +0300 (MSK) To: current@freebsd.org, dyson@freebsd.org Message-ID: Organization: DEMOS Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:35:45 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.40 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Hang with sys_pipe 1.9 Lines: 67 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Here is ps output, see pipe* lines: UID PID PPID CPU PRI NI VSZ RSS WCHAN STAT TT TIME COMMAND 0 0 0 0 -18 0 0 0 sched DLs ?? 0:00.09 (swapper) 0 1 0 0 10 0 408 12 wait Is ?? 0:00.15 /sbin/init -- 0 2 0 1 -18 0 0 12 psleep DL ?? 0:07.67 (pagedaemon) 0 3 0 0 28 0 0 12 psleep DL ?? 0:05.82 (vmdaemon) 0 4 0 0 28 0 0 12 update DL ?? 0:18.26 (update) 0 34 1 59 18 0 224 12 pause Is ?? 0:00.02 adjkerntz -i 0 79 1 0 2 0 188 164 select Is ?? 0:00.72 syslogd 0 82 1 0 2 0 616 324 select Ss ?? 0:04.80 named -b /etc/namedb/named.boot 0 90 1 255 2 -12 448 184 select S ${entry}.i386"; edir=${entry}.i386; cd /usr/src/lib/${edir}; else echo "===> $entry"; edir=${entry}; cd /usr/src/lib/${edir}; fi; make depend DIRPRFX=$edir/); done 0 25457 24836 172 10 0 372 792 wait I v1 0:00.49 make depend DIRPRFX 0 25489 25457 172 10 0 480 216 wait I v1 0:00.02 /bin/sh -ec sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist -bc /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c > help.c 0 25490 25489 172 10 0 484 220 wait I v1 0:00.06 sh /usr/src/lib/libedit/makelist /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 25492 25490 174 -6 0 240 120 pipdwc I v1 0:00.02 cat /usr/src/lib/libedit/vi.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/emacs.c /usr/src/lib/libedit/common.c 0 25493 25490 202 -6 0 344 884 piperd I v1 0:00.36 awk \n^IBEGIN {\n^I printf("/* Automatically generated file, do not edit */\\n");\n^I printf("#include \\"sys.h\\"\\n#include \\"el.h\\"\\n");\n^I printf("private struct el_bindings_t el_func_help[] = {\\n");\n^I low = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz_";\n^I high = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ_";\n^I for (i = 1; i <= length(low); i++)\n^I^Itr[substr(low, i, 1)] = substr(high, i, 1);\n^I}\n^I/\\(\\):/ {\n^I pr = substr($2, 1, 2);\n^I if (pr == "vi" || pr == "em" || pr == "ed") {\n^I^Iname = substr($2, 1, length($2) - 3);\n^I^Iuname = "";\n^I^Ifname = "";\n^I^Ifor (i = 1; i <= length(name); i++) {\n^I^I s = substr(name, i, 1);\n^I^I uname = uname tr[s];\n^I^I if (s == "_")\n^I^I^Is = "-";\n^I^I fname = fname s;\n^I^I}\n^I^I \n^I^Iprintf(" { %-30.30s %-30.30s\\n","\\"" fname "\\",", uname ",");\n^I^Iok = 1; \n^I }\n^I}\n^I/^ \\*/ {\n^I if (ok) {\n^I^Iprintf(" \\"");\! n^I^Ifor (i = 2; i < NF; i++)\n 112 189 1 3 18 0 720 608 pause Is v2 0:04.89 -tcsh (tcsh) 0 1007 189 0 28 0 672 24 - T v2 0:02.65 -su (tcsh) 0 20906 189 32 36 0 668 352 - T v2 0:02.59 -su (tcsh) 0 20910 20906 10 30 0 240 104 - T v2 0:00.26 less sup.out 112 23408 189 0 2 0 276 364 select S+ v2 0:02.11 telnet -a arch.kiae.su 112 20897 1 9 18 0 712 516 pause Is v3 0:02.93 -tcsh (tcsh) 0 21079 20897 3 18 0 680 840 pause S v3 0:03.94 -su (tcsh) 0 21735 21079 0 10 0 364 400 wait I v3 0:00.48 make makesum 0 21736 21735 0 10 0 364 400 wait I v3 0:00.47 make real-fetch 0 21747 21736 0 10 0 364 400 wait I v3 0:00.50 make do-fetch 0 21752 21747 0 10 0 480 156 wait I v3 0:00.03 /bin/sh -ec (cd /usr/ports/distfiles; for file in lynx2-4-fm.zip; do if [ ! -f $file -a ! -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then /bin/echo ">> $file doesn't seem to exist on this system."; for site in ftp://ftp.hhs.dk//fote_mirror/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/; do /bin/echo ">> Attempting to fetch from ${site}."; (/usr/bin/ncftp -c ${site}${file} > lynx2-4-fm.zip || true); if [ -f $file -o -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then continue 2; fi done; /bin/echo ">> Couldn't fetch it - please try to retreive this"; /bin/echo ">> port manually into /usr/ports/distfiles and try again."; exit 1; fi done) 0 21753 21752 0 10 0 480 120 wait I v3 0:00.06 /bin/sh -ec (cd /usr/ports/distfiles; for file in lynx2-4-fm.zip; do if [ ! -f $file -a ! -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then /bin/echo ">> $file doesn't seem to exist on this system."; for site in ftp://ftp.hhs.dk//fote_mirror/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/; do /bin/echo ">> Attempting to fetch from ${site}."; (/usr/bin/ncftp -c ${site}${file} > lynx2-4-fm.zip || true); if [ -f $file -o -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then continue 2; fi done; /bin/echo ">> Couldn't fetch it - please try to retreive this"; /bin/echo ">> port manually into /usr/ports/distfiles and try again."; exit 1; fi done) 0 21762 21753 0 10 0 480 92 wait I v3 0:00.01 /bin/sh -ec (cd /usr/ports/distfiles; for file in lynx2-4-fm.zip; do if [ ! -f $file -a ! -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then /bin/echo ">> $file doesn't seem to exist on this system."; for site in ftp://ftp.hhs.dk//fote_mirror/ ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/distfiles/; do /bin/echo ">> Attempting to fetch from ${site}."; (/usr/bin/ncftp -c ${site}${file} > lynx2-4-fm.zip || true); if [ -f $file -o -f `/usr/bin/basename $file` ]; then continue 2; fi done; /bin/echo ">> Couldn't fetch it - please try to retreive this"; /bin/echo ">> port manually into /usr/ports/distfiles and try again."; exit 1; fi done) 0 21763 21762 0 2 0 340 348 sbwait I v3 0:01.81 /usr/bin/ncftp -c ftp://ftp.hhs.dk//fote_mirror/lynx2-4-fm.zip 0 25515 21079 12 31 0 476 308 - R+ v3 0:00.03 ps -laxww 112 191 1 126 3 0 712 1032 ttyin Is+ v4 0:02.91 -tcsh (tcsh) 0 192 1 5 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ v5 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyv5 0 193 1 5 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ v6 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyv6 0 194 1 3 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ v7 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyv7 0 195 1 6 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ v8 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyv8 0 196 1 6 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ v9 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyv9 0 197 1 7 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ va 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc ttyva 0 104 1 3 2 0 188 236 sbwait I ??- 0:00.55 kerberos 0 187 1 3 3 0 156 24 ttyin Is+ ?? 0:00.06 /usr/libexec/getty Pc console -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Wed Feb 7 23:00:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA29205 for current-outgoing; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:00:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA29137 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA25597 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:59:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199602080659.XAA25597@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 23:59:43 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, Installing 2.2-960130-SNAP via medium NFS fails during "Commit" phase. I tried installing 6 or 7 times, each dying in one of 2 places. Failure type 1: VTY0: Information Dialog Loading root image from: ilsa:/usr2/FreeBDS/2.2-960130-SNAP VTY1: . stand [lines deleted] stand/df stand/cat stand/ls VTY3: Warning: This shell is chroot()'d to /mnt # Failure type 2: dies during install of bin files. Naturally, this happened often while trying to get the system running, but could not get past failure #1, above, once I was prepared to document the failure! My memory was: VTY0: Extracting bin into / 1 % VTY1: bin/chmod bin/cp bin/cat VTY3: [ nothing interesting, but "ls bin" showed csh as also being there ] --- I repeated this failure at least 3 times. An ls of dist hung, although mount showed the NFS file system as mounted. there didn't appear to be a 'ps' available at this point. I was able to install by doing an ftp install of the bin files, finishing the install, and then re-running the extract option of stand/sysinstall to get everything else via NFS. I tried all the usual things first: different boot floppy, different hard disk, even installed 2.1.0-RELEASE via NFS without problem. my dmesg: FreeBSD 2.2-960130-SNAP #0: Wed Jan 31 08:54:36 1996 jkh@time.cdrom.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/GENERIC CPU: i486 DX2 (486-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x435 Stepping=5 Features=0x3 real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) avail memory = 14667776 (14324K bytes) eisa0: Probing for devices on the EISA bus ahc0: at 0x1c00-0x1cff irq 11 on isa ahc0: aic7770 >= Rev E, Single Channel, SCSI Id=7, 4 SCBs ahc0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ahc0:0:0): "MICROP 2217-15MQ1001901 HQ30" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ahc0:0:0): Direct-Access 1685MB (3450902 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:1:0): "MICROP 2217-15MZ1001905 HQ30" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd1(ahc0:1:0): Direct-Access 1685MB (3450902 512 byte sectors) (ahc0:3:0): "PLEXTOR CD-ROM PX-6XCS 1.00" type 5 removable SCSI 2 cd0(ahc0:3:0): CD-ROM cd present [152345 x 2048 byte records] Probing for devices on the ISA bus: sc0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard sc0: VGA color <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x0> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 8192 on isa ed0: address 00:00:c0:ac:7e:14, type WD8003E (8 bit) ed1 not probed due to maddr conflict with ed0 at 0xd8000 sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A sio2 not found at 0x3e8 sio3 not found at 0x2e8 lpt0 at 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on isa lpt0: Interrupt-driven port lp0: TCP/IP capable interface lpt1 not found at 0xffffffff lpt2 not found at 0xffffffff fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in fd1: 1.2MB 5.25in wdc0 not found at 0x1f0 wdc1 not found at 0x170 bt0 not found at 0x330 uha0 not found at 0x330 aha0 not found at 0x330 aic0 not found at 0x340 nca0 not found at 0x1f88 nca1 not found at 0x350 sea0 not found wt0 not found at 0x300 mcd0 not found at 0x300 mcd1 not found at 0x340 matcdc0 not found at 0x230 scd0 not found at 0x230 ie0 not found at 0x360 ep0 not found at 0x300 ix0 not found at 0x300 le0 not found at 0x300 lnc0 not probed due to I/O address conflict with ed0 at 0x280 lnc1 not found at 0x300 ze0 not probed due to maddr conflict with ed0 at 0xd8000 zp0 not probed due to maddr conflict with ed0 at 0xd8000 npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface changing root device to sd0a -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 00:36:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA10427 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 00:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl [130.89.10.247]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA10422 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 00:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from myrtilos.cs.utwente.nl by utrhcs.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelayMX-SVR4_1.2/RBINF) id JAA29661; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:34:02 +0100 Received: from curie.cs.utwente.nl by myrtilos.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/csrelay-Sol1.4/RB) id JAA14102; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:33:50 +0100 Received: from localhost by curie.cs.utwente.nl (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA06936; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:33:51 +0100 To: "Adam David" cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 1996 21:36:49 GMT." <199602072136.VAA24116@veda.is> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 09:33:50 +0100 Message-ID: <6935.823768430@curie.cs.utwente.nl> From: Andras Olah Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 07 Feb 1996 21:36:49 GMT, "Adam David" wrote: > The problem that I had been experiencing with some TCP/IP connections not > working (typically manifesting as input being received but output not being > sent) can be worked around by setting the MTU to 552 on the relevant network > interface. This problem started in -current sometime around November/December > AFAIK, I have not taken serious time to track down the cause. Is it possible that some device on the path gets confused by MTU discovery? Just a wild guess... Andras On Tue, 05 Dec 1995 09:47:13 PST, "Garrett A. Wollman" wrote: > wollman 95/12/05 09:47:09 > > Modified: sys/netinet in_rmx.c ip_icmp.c ip_output.c ip_var.h > tcp_output.c tcp_subr.c tcp_var.h > Log: > Path MTU Discovery is now standard. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 02:42:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14904 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from vogon.muc.de (root@vogon.muc.de [193.174.4.4]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA14895 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.174.4.22] ([193.174.4.22]) by vogon.muc.de with SMTP id <93412-3>; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:41:06 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:43:30 +0100 To: terry@lambert.org From: lutz@muc.de (Lutz Albers) Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION Cc: freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In article <199602072029.NAA06238@phaeton.artisoft.com>, Terry Lambert writes: - -> In message <199602070026.RAA03938@phaeton.artisoft.com>you write: -> >The output doesn't look particularly useful as input to "patch" -> -> You missed the "Index:" lines that cvs diff generates; they tell patch which -> file to patch. (The FS_PATCHES.diff.gz that exists on freefall right now is -> not a context diff, btw) - -I know. That was the source of my consternation. I specified a -comamnd line of "cvs diff -c" and that is what came out. Hello, is there are reason not to use 'cvs rdiff' ? This should create patch output, at least according to the cvs man page. ciao lutz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lutz Albers | What's good ? Luederitzstr. 14, 81929-Muenchen, Germany | Life's good - email:lutz@muc.de ph: +49-89-93940364 | But not fair at all http://www.muc.de/~lutz fax:+49-89-93940365 | (Lou Reed) Do not take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 02:57:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA15275 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (root@ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA15270 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 02:57:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26615; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:56:25 GMT Message-Id: <199602081056.KAA26615@veda.is> Subject: Re: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround To: olah@cs.utwente.nl (Andras Olah) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:56:24 +0000 (GMT) From: "Adam David" Cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6935.823768430@curie.cs.utwente.nl> from "Andras Olah" at Feb 8, 96 09:33:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The problem that I had been experiencing with some TCP/IP connections not > > working (typically manifesting as input being received but output not being > > sent) can be worked around by setting the MTU to 552 on the relevant network > > interface. This problem started in -current sometime around Nov/Dec AFAIK > > Is it possible that some device on the path gets confused by MTU > discovery? Just a wild guess... Looks probable. The very next hop in our local network is a pcroute-derived router. If there are implementations out there that choke on MTU Discovery, is there a better failure mode than hanging the (output) connection? An MTU of 552 at either end of the connection was enough to prevent the hang, but this is only a workaround not a fix, since any network node might get confused if it doesn't handle MTU discovery. > On Tue, 05 Dec 1995 09:47:13 PST, "Garrett A. Wollman" wrote: > > wollman 95/12/05 09:47:09 > > > > Modified: sys/netinet in_rmx.c ip_icmp.c ip_output.c ip_var.h > > tcp_output.c tcp_subr.c tcp_var.h > > Log: > > Path MTU Discovery is now standard. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 04:30:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19167 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 04:30:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA19161 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 04:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tkVVW-0009Z1C; Thu, 8 Feb 96 13:31 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 13:31 MET X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.3 References: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages X-Original-Newsgroups: deadline.lists.freebsd-current In-Reply-To: To: Jim Lowe Cc: current@freebsd.org Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- In article , Jim Lowe writes: >The problem is that someone changed the isa.c dma_start code >and the sound code a week or so ago and didn't complete the >required changes. They added the code to set dma_dusy[], but didn't >add the code to clear dma_busy[] in dmabuf.c. Thus, the messages. Yesterday I had another look at isa.c and I think isa_dmastart as well as isa_dmadone and isa_dmadone_nobounce look ok. The problem definately seems to be in the sounddriver, although I couldn't find anything obscure in there. Perhaps somebody with more experience of the sound- drivers could have a look at this again. BTW: The problem is not that the busy flag gets set and not reset but rather that some part of the sounddriver attempts to clear the flag twice in which case the flag isn't set in the second attempt. Thus the message: "channel xx not busy" This could happen if isa_dmadone_nobounce was called twice for example. Regards, Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 04:49:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA19775 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 04:49:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp [133.6.57.68]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA19770 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 04:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp (8.7.3+2.6Wbeta5/3.3W9) with ESMTP id VAA02565 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 21:48:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199602081248.VAA02565@marble.eps.nagoya-u.ac.jp> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: missing imp.h X-Mailer: Mew beta version 0.96 on Emacs 19.28.1, Mule 2.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 21:48:53 +0900 From: KATO Takenori Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The entries for optoinal imp in the file /sys/conf/files has been commented out, but /sys/netinet/in_proto.c includes imp.h. in_proto.c line 194: #include "imp.h" #if NIMP > 0 extern struct domain impdomain; int rimp_output(), hostslowtimo(); struct protosw impsw[] = { { SOCK_RAW, &impdomain, 0, PR_ATOMIC|PR_ADDR, 0, rimp_output, 0, 0, rip_usrreq, 0, 0, hostslowtimo, 0, }, }; struct domain impdomain = { AF_IMPLINK, "imp", 0, 0, 0, impsw, &impsw[sizeof (impsw)/sizeof(impsw[0])] }; DOMAIN_SET(imp); #endif ---- KATO Takenori Dept. Earth Planet. Sci., Nagoya Univ., Nagoya 464-01 Voice: +81-52-789-2529 Fax: +81-52-789-3033 From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 07:40:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA25862 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (root@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru [193.232.88.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA25855 Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (sandy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA13784; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:40:04 +0300 Message-ID: <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 15:39:56 +0000 From: Sandy Kovshov Organization: RoSprint Moscow X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: CCITT support in current Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello All. I've found, what last current does not support CCITT already. Can I ask why ? I have installed X400 GW on FreeBSD and plan to install other tech. sites on FreeBSD, but I must use other system due of abcense of CCITT protocols. -- --- Sandy E-mail: Internet: sandy@dream.demos.su sandy@www.RoSprint.ru X.400: (C:USSR,A:SOVMAIL,O:SNUSSR,UN:A.KOVSHOV) X.400: (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,O:SPRINTINTL,UN:A.KOVSHOV) From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 07:52:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26331 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26324 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA27914; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:51:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:51:25 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602081551.AA27914@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Adam David" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround In-Reply-To: <199602072136.VAA24116@veda.is> References: <199602072136.VAA24116@veda.is> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > The problem that I had been experiencing with some TCP/IP connections not > working (typically manifesting as input being received but output not being > sent) can be worked around by setting the MTU to 552 on the relevant network > interface. This problem started in -current sometime around November/December > AFAIK, I have not taken serious time to track down the cause. Hmmm. Can you provide the output of the following: # route get address.of.remote.host # tcpdump -p icmp or ip host address.of.remote.host I'd like the first command before and after the attempted connection, and the second command during it. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 08:06:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA26875 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA26866 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA28022; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:05:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:05:11 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602081605.AA28022@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Sandy Kovshov Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: CCITT support in current In-Reply-To: <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> References: <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > I've found, what last current does not support CCITT already. Can > I ask why ? I have installed X400 GW on FreeBSD and plan to install > other tech. sites on FreeBSD, but I must use other system due of > abcense of CCITT protocols. If you wish to support that code, we'd be happy to let you have it. We don't have any active contributors who actually use X.25 &c, so we are not prepared to support it. If you're willing to provide official support for it---and that means fixing it to kill all the remaining compile warnings and updating it to keep up with changes in the networking framework---then we might consider shipping the code again. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 08:46:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA29810 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (root@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru [193.232.88.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29802 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (sandy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA14700; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:46:01 +0300 Message-ID: <311A28C3.2781E494@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 16:45:55 +0000 From: Sandy Kovshov Organization: RoSprint Moscow X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Garrett A. Wollman" CC: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current References: <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> <9602081605.AA28022@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Garrett A. Wollman wrote: > If you wish to support that code, we'd be happy to let you have it. > We don't have any active contributors who actually use X.25 &c, so we > are not prepared to support it. If you're willing to provide official > support for it---and that means fixing it to kill all the remaining > compile warnings and updating it to keep up with changes in the > networking framework---then we might consider shipping the code again. > > -GAWollman I'm not a X25 hacker, but I'll try to support this part of code. I have no choise ;)) because I use it and plan to use FBSD for our technical servers. Please let me know, what I must to do. -- --- Sandy E-mail: Internet: sandy@dream.demos.su sandy@www.RoSprint.ru X.400: (C:USSR,A:SOVMAIL,O:SNUSSR,UN:A.KOVSHOV) X.400: (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,O:SPRINTINTL,UN:A.KOVSHOV) From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 09:05:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01513 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:05:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01489 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA28314; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:03:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:03:57 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602081703.AA28314@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Sandy Kovshov Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current In-Reply-To: <311A28C3.2781E494@lapkin.rosprint.ru> References: <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> <9602081605.AA28022@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <311A28C3.2781E494@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > I'm not a X25 hacker, but I'll try to support this part of code. > I have no choise ;)) because I use it and plan to use FBSD for > our technical servers. Please let me know, what I must to do. For the moment, what I suggest you do is simply grab the netccitt code from an older -current or from 2.1 (I don't think there are any significant changes), and ship it to your customers separately. We have no plans to remove the support code in other parts of the tree. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 09:20:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02292 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02235 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10458; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:22:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:22:30 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602081722.KAA10458@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: CVS ISSUES In-Reply-To: <199602072019.NAA06210@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199602072019.NAA06210@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Julian Elisher has noted some issues and I have tracked their source > to an (apparent) bug in CVS. > > > 1) SUP the main CVS tree > 2) Checkout a source tree > 3) Modify a file > 4) The same file is modified by another person in the > real source tree > 5) SUP update the local source tree copy.x > 6) CVS merge > 7) Changes in step #4 are apparently backed out in the merge I've *never* had the problem on my box, and I'm using heavily hacked sources on my box. Everytime I make changes, I do *exactly* the same things above, and my changes are always kept current, although at times I must go in and fix conflicts when my changes are either made to the tree or someone else makes changes to similar areas. > This isn't a problem if you always check in your modifications to > the main line tree, only if you are running a SUP update automatically > instead of manually. I'm not chekcing in my modifications to the tree, and I run SUP. automatically, (although that is irrelevant) > Why wasn't the diff against the version at the time of checkout > used to generate the patches applied to the current version (*NOT* > the version at the time of checkout, but a later version), and > that diff applied against the later (current via SUP) version? Hmm, I *think* I understand what you are trying to say in that incredibly run on sentence. If you meant to say. Why doesn't CVS keep the changes you've made current to the newly modified files, then I don't understand your problems. > I think that CVS is not paying as much attention to the checked out > tree as it should, specifically in light of "proiscuous" changes to > the CVS tree vs. SUP. > > Opinions? I hate to say this, but I think something is either wrong with the way you use CVS, or that you're hacked version of CVS is broken, since every version of CVS I've used in FreeBSD has always worked (and continues to work) in the way you are describing it's broken. Nate From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 10:07:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA05852 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05838 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA08296; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:59:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602081759.KAA08296@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: lutz@muc.de (Lutz Albers) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:59:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Lutz Albers" at Feb 8, 96 11:43:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > -I know. That was the source of my consternation. I specified a > -comamnd line of "cvs diff -c" and that is what came out. > > Hello, > > is there are reason not to use 'cvs rdiff' ? This should create patch > output, at least according to the cvs man page. cvs [rdiff aborted]: must specify at least one revision/date! Apparently, patch can take "cvs diff" output as input. Go figure. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 10:10:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA06359 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06348 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA08333; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:07:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602081807.LAA08333@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: CVS ISSUES To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:07:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602081722.KAA10458@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 8, 96 10:22:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Hmm, I *think* I understand what you are trying to say in that > incredibly run on sentence. > > If you meant to say. > > Why doesn't CVS keep the changes you've made current to the newly > modified files, then I don't understand your problems. That's sort of it... though it wants a more complicated setup to make sure it's the same problem. And I didn't understand it either. That's why I posted. 8-). > > I think that CVS is not paying as much attention to the checked out > > tree as it should, specifically in light of "proiscuous" changes to > > the CVS tree vs. SUP. > > > > Opinions? > > I hate to say this, but I think something is either wrong with the way > you use CVS, or that you're hacked version of CVS is broken, since every > version of CVS I've used in FreeBSD has always worked (and continues to > work) in the way you are describing it's broken. "Hacked" hardly describes taking a -current source version an modifying: | /* Define if you want CVS to be able to be a remote repository client. */ | #define CLIENT_SUPPORT 1 | | /* Define if you want CVS to be able to serve repositories to remote | clients. */ | #define SERVER_SUPPORT 1 To: | /* Define if you want CVS to be able to be a remote repository client. */ | /* #define CLIENT_SUPPORT 1*/ | | /* Define if you want CVS to be able to serve repositories to remote | clients. */ | /* #define SERVER_SUPPORT 1*/ Configuration changes are supposed to be made in conig.h, nes pas? Julian has suggested "pilot error". I will be able to test this after more conflicting changes are entered (ie: after David does the Lite2 integration -- my patches are being held pending that event anyway). I let everyone know what happens then (as I already stated to this list). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 13:01:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26863 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26858 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01686; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:01:23 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602082101.NAA01686@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: CCITT support in current To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett A. Wollman) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:01:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: sandy@lapkin.rosprint.ru, freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9602081605.AA28022@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett A. Wollman" at Feb 8, 96 11:05:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > < said: > > > I've found, what last current does not support CCITT already. Can > > I ask why ? I have installed X400 GW on FreeBSD and plan to install > > other tech. sites on FreeBSD, but I must use other system due of > > abcense of CCITT protocols. > > If you wish to support that code, we'd be happy to let you have it. > We don't have any active contributors who actually use X.25 &c, so we > are not prepared to support it. If you're willing to provide official > support for it---and that means fixing it to kill all the remaining > compile warnings and updating it to keep up with changes in the > networking framework---then we might consider shipping the code again. The files are still in the CVS tree so they can be re-inserted into the tree. certainly I think this was a REALLY BAD UNANIMOUS DSECISION! This ranks right up there with the things that caused the NetBSD split. I was never asked about it and I would certainly have argued against it.. > > -GAWollman > > -- > Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... > wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. > Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people > MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant > From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 15:22:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA06798 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06789 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA04181; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:21:07 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA19847; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:21:04 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id AAA12395; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:18:01 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602082318.AAA12395@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:18:00 +0100 (MET) Cc: current@freefall.freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602080659.XAA25597@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Feb 7, 96 11:59:43 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Steve Passe wrote: [Install errors for NFS] > [lines deleted] > > stand/df > stand/cat > stand/ls > Extracting bin into / > 1 % > ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 8192 on isa > ed0: address 00:00:c0:ac:7e:14, type WD8003E (8 bit) Select ``NFS slow'' in the options menu. Your 8-bit ethernet card is being swamped with 8-KB NFS packets. (My 3C503 did show this, too, even though the server does also use a 3C503 only.) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 16:00:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA10518 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from veda.is (root@ubiq.veda.is [193.4.230.60]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA10502 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 16:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA03653; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:00:08 GMT Message-Id: <199602090000.AAA03653@veda.is> Subject: Re: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround To: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett A. Wollman) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:00:05 +0000 (GMT) From: "Adam David" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9602082045.AA28752@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> from "Garrett A. Wollman" at Feb 8, 96 03:45:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Garrett has been helping me to understand this problem by discussing it with me in private email. It is time again to post to a wider audience. Garrett> It is caused by a broken gateway anywhere in the path where Garrett> fragmentation would normally be required (i.e., where the MTU Garrett> decreases from one link to the next). That's why you didn't have any Garrett> problems after decreasing the MTU. Okay, that makes good sense. Now, there is a high likelihood of there still being vast numbers of such broken gateways out there... as in the case of slower progress in some regions... and continue to be used within some networks, and on some inter-organisational links at a distance from the main trunkways of the net. For instance, our link to the rest of the world looks like this: *.veda.is branch (ethernet=10Mb/s:mtu=1500) --broken_router-- (V.32bis=19.2kb/s:SLIP=57.6kb/s:mtu=552) --broken_router-- *.is branch (ethernet=10Mb/s:mtu=1500) It looks like we could raise our SLIP MTU to 1500 and lose some latency on the link, or invest in a faster link (and if there are connectivity problems elsewhere, let them be dealt with in their local jurisdiction and their own sweet time)... bearing in mind that FreeBSD might be the only leading system with which such end-to-end connectivity troubles are encountered. Alternatively, it might be sensible to advise the use of -lock -mtu 1500 on outgoing routes, as a commented example in /etc/sysconfig (valid for most machines connected by slow-ethernet and PPP), in order to allow for the widespread existence of broken gateways out there. Or as a third option, might it be possible or even desirable to implement a fallback mechanism whereby if Path MTU Discovery fails due to a non-compliant gateway, another method is used in order to better assure the delivery of outgoing packets? (The previous method worked across links that create a blockage now that the current method is used without a fallback). What do people think about these suggestions? -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 18:38:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21115 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21108 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA20122; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:05:03 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602090235.NAA20122@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:05:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas S. Wetzel" at Feb 8, 96 01:31:00 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: > > Yesterday I had another look at isa.c and I think isa_dmastart as well > as isa_dmadone and isa_dmadone_nobounce look ok. The problem definately These do indeed appear to be fine. > seems to be in the sounddriver, although I couldn't find anything > obscure in there. Perhaps somebody with more experience of the sound- I think the problem is that they're calling isa_dmadone in their _reset_ function, and they call the reset function before starting. > Regards, Mickey -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-current Thu Feb 8 18:39:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA21178 for current-outgoing; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:39:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from deadline.snafu.de (root@deadline.snafu.de [194.64.158.28]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21173 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by deadline.snafu.de id m0tkikS-0009ZkC; Fri, 9 Feb 96 03:39 MET (/\oo/\ Smail3.1.29.1 #29.1) Message-Id: From: root@deadline.snafu.de (Andreas S. Wetzel) Subject: Re: Tired of "isa_dmadone_nobounce" messages To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 03:39:44 +0100 (MET) Cc: james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602090235.NAA20122@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 9, 96 01:05:02 pm Organization: A world stranger than you have ever imagined. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi! --- Michael Smith writes: ] Andreas S. Wetzel stands accused of saying: ] > ] > Yesterday I had another look at isa.c and I think isa_dmastart as well ] > as isa_dmadone and isa_dmadone_nobounce look ok. The problem definately ] ] These do indeed appear to be fine. Agree. ] > seems to be in the sounddriver, although I couldn't find anything ] > obscure in there. Perhaps somebody with more experience of the sound- ] ] I think the problem is that they're calling isa_dmadone in their ] _reset_ function, and they call the reset function before starting. This could possibly be the answer, since I get this message only on the first block of audio data that gets send to the audio device after opening it and setting up the sample rate etc... Regards, Mickey -- (__) (@@) Andreas S. Wetzel E-mail: mickey@deadline.snafu.de /-------\/ Utrechter Strasse 41 Web: http://deadline.snafu.de/ / | || 13347 Berlin Voice: <+4930> 456 81 68 * ||----|| Germany Fax/Data: <+4930> 455 19 57 ~~ ~~ From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 00:05:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA06338 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA06322 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:04:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tknpA-0003y3C; Fri, 9 Feb 96 00:04 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA00958; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:51:06 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Julian Elischer cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett A. Wollman), sandy@lapkin.rosprint.ru, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Feb 1996 13:01:23 PST." <199602082101.NAA01686@ref.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 07:51:05 +0100 Message-ID: <956.823848665@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The files are still in the CVS tree so they can be re-inserted into the tree. > certainly I think this was a REALLY BAD UNANIMOUS DSECISION! > This ranks right up there with the things that caused the NetBSD split. > > I was never asked about it > and I would certainly have argued against it.. Julian, I know what your interest in this is, and I understand it. On the other hand, I can't see what difference it makes to you if the files are in the attic. We maintain them to the exact same level now as we did before the decision: Not at all. If some group of people will 'fess up to this, and promise to maintain it seriously, then I'm sure we will take it back into the source. Until then: it's dead. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 02:57:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA16415 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 02:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from colin.muc.de (colin.muc.de [193.174.4.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA16408 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 02:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.174.4.22] ([193.174.4.22]) by colin.muc.de with SMTP id <86025-2>; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:55:15 +0100 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:57:40 +0100 To: Terry Lambert From: lutz@muc.de (Lutz Albers) Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-current@freefall.FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert wrote on 8.2.1996 Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION - cvs [rdiff aborted]: must specify at least one revision/date! - - Apparently, patch can take "cvs diff" output as input. Go figure. 8-). Welcome to the mysterious wonderworld of the cvs and the neverending quest to find out which commands work on the repository, the working directory or both (or none :-) ;-) rdiff compares two revisions in the repository (defaulting to the HEAD for one revision). So you need to specify at least one revison (and have your changes commited). ciao lutz --------------------------------------------------------------------- Lutz Albers | What's good ? Luederitzstr. 14, 81929-Muenchen, Germany | Life's good - email:lutz@muc.de ph: +49-89-93940364 | But not fair at all http://www.muc.de/~lutz fax:+49-89-93940365 | (Lou Reed) Do not take life too seriously, you will never get out of it alive. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 04:33:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA21635 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA21628 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id EAA00847; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:32:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:32:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602091232.EAA00847@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, dyson@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199602071252.UAA00303@Adonis.Dorm10.NCTU.edu.tw> (message from Chien-Ta Lee on Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:52:25 +0800 (CST)) Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * Bad luck, it is still out of work .... sys_pipe.c Rev 1.9 * "cd /usr/src/lib/libedit; make clean depend all" still hangs.... Just FYI, I don't see the problem anymore (at least in this directory) with revision 1.10. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 04:56:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25763 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25740 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA19831; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:55:24 -0800 To: Michael Smith cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Initial 2.2-SNAP experiences... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 23:18:54 +1030." <199602061248.XAA02984@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 04:55:24 -0800 Message-ID: <19828.823870524@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Seriously, I'm not sure whether sysinstall mounted the disk async or > what, but the install really bucketted along (this is on a 386DX33 via FTP). Poul-Henning frobbed it to mount the disks async. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 04:57:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25896 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25891 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA19842; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 04:56:37 -0800 To: John Polstra cc: pst@shockwave.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sup%d is broken - I agree In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 12:03:25 PST." <199602062003.MAA14626@austin.polstra.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 04:56:37 -0800 Message-ID: <19840.823870597@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > One thing I should have mentioned in my original tirade, but forgot: I > sup the CVS tree (src and ports), not the -current tree or anything You don't need to sup -current if you sup CVS; you already have it! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 05:04:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA27013 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:04:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw [140.113.235.252]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA27006 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:04:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jdli@localhost) by linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA05446 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:00:43 +0800 From: Chien-Ta Lee Message-Id: <199602091300.VAA05446@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:00:41 +0800 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > * Bad luck, it is still out of work .... sys_pipe.c Rev 1.9 > * "cd /usr/src/lib/libedit; make clean depend all" still hangs.... > > Just FYI, I don't see the problem anymore (at least in this directory) > with revision 1.10. > My problem went away with Rev 1.10, too. I will make a world later to test the stability of the kernel. Thanks John !! :) -- §õ «Ø ¹F (Adonis) ¥æ¤j¸ê¤u Mail: jdli@csie.nctu.edu.tw From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 05:12:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA28325 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA28310 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA19890; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:11:49 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Feb 1996 13:59:24 PST." <199602062159.NAA01076@ref.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:11:49 -0800 Message-ID: <19888.823871509@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) Erm.. I know you're probably joking, but since you bring it up. I don't think that we should even ever consider making devfs mandatory (optional is fine, I don't mind optional) until a persistance mechanism that's fully transparent to the user is implemented. I had UNIX old-timers walk up and tear *my* ears off over this after Julian's talk at USENIX - they were not at all pleased by his answer that he considered persistance "a user problem" :-) However, their impassioned diatribes did give me a chance to consider the matter of persistence more fully myself, I have to say that I find myself more or less in full agreement with them. It has to work the way it works now, e.g. you should be able to just walk into /dev (and that could be one of many incarnations of `dev', remember) and futz with permissions or "delete" device entries you don't want to be present for security reasons, and that information should stay there across mounts. David, Justin, Sean and I stood around for awhile thinking of some ways this might be done in a log file somewhere, and I'm sure the problem isn't insurmountable. To NOT do this and force our users to have to specifically edit chmod, mknods or rm commands into /etc/rc in order to preserve their changes to /dev across reboots, well, the phrase "a serious public reaming" comes to mind when I contemplate the outcome. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 05:20:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA29972 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA29965 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA19924; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:19:41 -0800 To: Steve Passe cc: current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 07 Feb 1996 23:59:43 MST." <199602080659.XAA25597@clem.systemsix.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <19922.823871981@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Installing 2.2-960130-SNAP via medium NFS fails during "Commit" phase. > I tried installing 6 or 7 times, each dying in one of 2 places. Hmmm. I've done several successful NFS installs with this SNAP between my two test machines, so I can only conclude it's some weird local configuration issue! Not to say that it's not a bug in -current, but I don't think it's anywhere in the installation (for once.. :-). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 05:23:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA00654 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA00645 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA19938; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:22:16 -0800 To: Sandy Kovshov cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Feb 1996 15:39:56 GMT." <311A194C.167EB0E7@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:22:16 -0800 Message-ID: <19936.823872136@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I've found, what last current does not support CCITT already. Can > I ask why ? I have installed X400 GW on FreeBSD and plan to install > other tech. sites on FreeBSD, but I must use other system due of > abcense of CCITT protocols. Because nobody was supporting it! I'll make you an offer, however. I'll happily send you a 2.1 or 2.0.5 (or however far back you'd like to go, really!) CD containing the CCITT stuff and you can hack it back into your copy of -current and make it compile / function as it's supposed to. Then, assuming that you're willing to become Mr. CCITT Protocols Person, it can be merged into -current but this time as SUPPORTED CODE, that is supported by you (all code has to be supported by *somebody*, after all, and none of us use the CCITT stuff!). Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 05:33:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA02243 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA02238 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA19981; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:32:00 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett A. Wollman), sandy@lapkin.rosprint.ru, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 08 Feb 1996 13:01:23 PST." <199602082101.NAA01686@ref.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:32:00 -0800 Message-ID: <19979.823872720@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I was never asked about it > and I would certainly have argued against it.. Perhaps the methodology could have been improved, I agree, but I can tell you that even if you'd argued passionately against it, you'd have been voted down by a substantial margin and the end result would have been exactly the same. This code has been festering for a long time and something drastic needed to be done. And hey, it's already brought one user out of the woodwork, and that's a 100% improvement over the state of affairs we've had for the previous 2 years! Sometimes you can beg piteously and for hours for someone to adopt a stray puppy you have in a box, and no matter how cute and furry it is, people will walk by like you don't exist. Pull out a .45 and hold it to the puppy's head, threatening to pull the trigger if somebody doesn't adopt it, and you'll find that somebody adopts it real quick. That's was pretty much the situation with the ccitt stuff. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 06:15:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA11457 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA11443 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tktbG-0003wMC; Fri, 9 Feb 96 06:14 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00307; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:14:52 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Michael Smith , current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Initial 2.2-SNAP experiences... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 04:55:24 PST." <19828.823870524@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:14:52 +0100 Message-ID: <305.823875292@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Seriously, I'm not sure whether sysinstall mounted the disk async or > > what, but the install really bucketted along (this is on a 386DX33 via FTP) . > > Poul-Henning frobbed it to mount the disks async. :-) > Uhm, this must be the "2.2-TURBO" snapshot, yes ? :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 06:18:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA12082 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12072 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tktev-0003wJC; Fri, 9 Feb 96 06:18 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00321; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:18:43 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Elischer , terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:11:49 PST." <19888.823871509@time.cdrom.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:18:42 +0100 Message-ID: <319.823875522@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > > file somewhere, and I'm sure the problem isn't insurmountable. To NOT > do this and force our users to have to specifically edit chmod, mknods > or rm commands into /etc/rc in order to preserve their changes to /dev > across reboots, well, the phrase "a serious public reaming" comes to > mind when I contemplate the outcome. > I beg to differ the other way here. I belive that persistence in any other form of a written policy is wrong and a security flaw. I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no form is more unix-like and suitable than chmod 644 tty* chown root.dev disk/* ... Remember, just because we always did it this way doesn't mean that it is smart. Ken Thompson called /dev "A pretty gross hack" at the EUUG conference in London more than five years ago... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 06:47:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA13529 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13521 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA20408; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 06:47:08 -0800 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: Julian Elischer , terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:18:42 +0100." <319.823875522@critter.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 06:47:08 -0800 Message-ID: <20406.823877228@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no > form is more unix-like and suitable than > > chmod 644 tty* > chown root.dev disk/* Actually, when we stood around discussing this, we agreed that the "journaling" mechanism would have to deal with the addition of wildcard rules like this. I understand the need to define permissions for entire classes of devices, not just single ones. It's also not a question of smart or not smart, it's a question of upholding the Principle of Least Astonishment and also not opening the can of worms any farther than it has to be opened. By preserving the old semantics, all your various shell scripts and system admin hacks survive and you don't have the "multiple incarnation of /dev (say for chroots) initialization problem" to worry about, either. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 07:11:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14719 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (root@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru [193.232.88.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14713 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (sandy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01017; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:11:03 +0300 Message-ID: <311B637D.15FB7483@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 15:08:45 +0000 From: Sandy Kovshov Organization: RoSprint Moscow X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current References: <19936.823872136@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > Because nobody was supporting it! > > I'll make you an offer, however. I'll happily send you a 2.1 or 2.0.5 > (or however far back you'd like to go, really!) CD containing the > CCITT stuff and you can hack it back into your copy of -current and > make it compile / function as it's supposed to. Then, assuming that > you're willing to become Mr. CCITT Protocols Person, it can be merged > into -current but this time as SUPPORTED CODE, that is supported by > you (all code has to be supported by *somebody*, after all, and none > of us use the CCITT stuff!). > > Jordan As I pointed in previous letter, I'll use this code in any case because some of our X400 sites runs on FreeBSD. I was surprised when found what CCITT code was deleted from source tree and nobody use it already. If you think what this code is undiserable in -current - "let it be". If you wants, I can send you patches or complette source of netccitt when I clean up it. -- --- Sandy E-mail: Internet: sandy@dream.demos.su sandy@www.RoSprint.ru X.400: (C:USSR,A:SOVMAIL,O:SNUSSR,UN:A.KOVSHOV) X.400: (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,O:SPRINTINTL,UN:A.KOVSHOV) From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 07:12:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA14801 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (root@Lapkin.RoSprint.ru [193.232.88.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA14763 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (sandy@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Lapkin.RoSprint.ru (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA01011; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:11:01 +0300 Message-ID: <311B601D.794BDF32@lapkin.rosprint.ru> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:54:21 +0000 From: Sandy Kovshov Organization: RoSprint Moscow X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" CC: Julian Elischer , "Garrett A. Wollman" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: CCITT support in current References: <19979.823872720@time.cdrom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > And hey, it's already brought one user out of the woodwork, and that's > a 100% improvement over the state of affairs we've had for the > previous 2 years! Sometimes you can beg piteously and for hours for > someone to adopt a stray puppy you have in a box, and no matter how > cute and furry it is, people will walk by like you don't exist. Pull > out a .45 and hold it to the puppy's head, threatening to pull the > trigger if somebody doesn't adopt it, and you'll find that somebody > adopts it real quick. That's was pretty much the situation with the > ccitt stuff. > > Jordan Hehe :) Thank you Jordan. This situation with CCITT code was the same as you described above. Of course I plan to use this code despite of it presence or absence in source tree. I think I'm not the one who use this code and somebody else will beg you to add it to source tree. And situation will be the same as you described above. -- --- Sandy E-mail: Internet: sandy@dream.demos.su sandy@www.RoSprint.ru X.400: (C:USSR,A:SOVMAIL,O:SNUSSR,UN:A.KOVSHOV) X.400: (C:USA,A:TELEMAIL,O:SPRINTINTL,UN:A.KOVSHOV) From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 07:31:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA16331 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:31:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA16312 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA03657; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:31:18 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:31:18 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602091531.AA03657@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: "Adam David" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TCP/IP interoperability problem, workaround In-Reply-To: <199602090000.AAA03653@veda.is> References: <9602082045.AA28752@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> <199602090000.AAA03653@veda.is> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > Okay, that makes good sense. Now, there is a high likelihood of there > still being vast numbers of such broken gateways out there... Actually, these have become quite rare in most parts of the world. (Nowadays you would buy a dedicated router or run FreeBSD where five years ago you might still use PCROUTE or the MIT C Gateway.) Particularly since Windows 95 does MTU discovery and has no way to turn it off... > Or as a third option, might it be possible or even desirable to implement a > fallback mechanism whereby if Path MTU Discovery fails due to a non-compliant > gateway There is no way to distinguish this case from `the other host is not responding'. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 08:17:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19700 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19695 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA10469; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:13:02 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602091613.JAA10469@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:13:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19888.823871509@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 05:11:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > > Erm.. I know you're probably joking, but since you bring it up. I > don't think that we should even ever consider making devfs mandatory > (optional is fine, I don't mind optional) until a persistance > mechanism that's fully transparent to the user is implemented. > > I had UNIX old-timers walk up and tear *my* ears off over this after > Julian's talk at USENIX - they were not at all pleased by his answer > that he considered persistance "a user problem" :-) However, their > impassioned diatribes did give me a chance to consider the matter of > persistence more fully myself, I have to say that I find myself more > or less in full agreement with them. > > It has to work the way it works now, e.g. you should be able to just > walk into /dev (and that could be one of many incarnations of `dev', > remember) and futz with permissions or "delete" device entries you > don't want to be present for security reasons, and that information > should stay there across mounts. David, Justin, Sean and I stood > around for awhile thinking of some ways this might be done in a log > file somewhere, and I'm sure the problem isn't insurmountable. To NOT > do this and force our users to have to specifically edit chmod, mknods > or rm commands into /etc/rc in order to preserve their changes to /dev > across reboots, well, the phrase "a serious public reaming" comes to > mind when I contemplate the outcome. Entry deletion does not make sense. Not if you keep the ability to mknod on other devices (like NFS devices). The ability to make devices for which there are not drivers does not make sense either. The ability to add hard links, and the ability to add symlinks, etc., is another matter. Not to get into a discussion of what should be allowed to persist and what shouldn't, or where in the shutdown/reboot process this information should be saved and where in the boot process it should be restored... But it's clear to me, and it should be clear to everyone else, that specfs must die. For netbooting, a mounted /dev that is not an export of the device space for a kernel boot instance is plain broken. FreeBSD already uses too many manjor/minor bits for hosting on SunOS, and it's only going to get worse as feature-add falls in. There is also the administrative problems of external developers. I'm a big example of that, since I tend to have changes coming in full-blown and therefore impacting a larger number of files. But this is also applicable to "Joe Schmoe" who wants a major device number for his driver because major device numbers are lexical indices in a fixed table that have to be synchronized with the MAKEDEV "utility" (and I use that term loosely). The more you can decouple external developers needs and auto-satisfaction of those needs from placing demands on the core team (a finite resource), the better off you will be. The process is not the product; it is *supposed* to be there to advance the product. Any time it gets in the way is an error. It's possible to, like the "boot -c" configuration saves, fix the problem of persistance with *automatic* rc file munging. The ability to do this automatically is probably one of the biggest arguments for an rc?.d (SYSV) or "rc.shutdown" (more BSD-like) extension to the system controls. I think that *not* requiring the implementation of the persistance facility (think netbooting, again) prior to deployment of a mandatory devfs is a *major* incentive to cause the feature to be added by the people who feel they need it. The lag on the developement of the ability to save "boot -c" data after "boot -c" was implemented was not an inherently bad thing. A mandatory devfs is a *MAJOR* win when it comes to porting to other platforms. I know that this is not the popular architectural overview in the FreeBSD camp, but don't condemn the idea because of its NetBSD origins. A good idea is a good idea, regardless of origin. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 08:25:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20542 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20528 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA10495; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:20:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602091620.JAA10495@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:20:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20406.823877228@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 06:47:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's also not a question of smart or not smart, it's a question of > upholding the Principle of Least Astonishment and also not opening the > can of worms any farther than it has to be opened. By preserving the > old semantics, all your various shell scripts and system admin hacks > survive and you don't have the "multiple incarnation of /dev (say for > chroots) initialization problem" to worry about, either. By this argument, we should restrict ourselves to strict SVR3 compatability; after all, there are more SCO boxes than any other UNIX or UNIX-clone system in existance. There is no better way to allow users to leverage existing software than to clone SCO's platform. Needless to say, I think "FreeSCO" would be a mistake... luckily such a mistake would be inherently self-limiting. Yes, this is a "reductio ad absurdum" argument. As is the argument that legacy software is a good reason to make a principle design decision, as you seem to claim above. Such legacy software can rely on an ABI environment, as SCO legacy software currently relies on such an environment. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 08:28:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA20725 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20647 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:28:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA29748 (5.65.kiae-2 for current@freebsd.org); Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:25:17 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Fri, 9 Feb 96 19:25:16 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA02239 for current@freebsd.org; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:12:27 +0300 (MSK) To: current@freebsd.org Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:12:27 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.42 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Lines: 8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hows about running E-bones there? It allows rcp/rlogin/telnet without security risk. I know about SSH, but Kerberos looks as more standard way to do it. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 09:54:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA26176 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26171 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA23449; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:52:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199602091752.KAA23449@rover.village.org> To: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:12:27 +0300 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:52:46 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Hows about running E-bones there? : It allows rcp/rlogin/telnet without security risk. : I know about SSH, but Kerberos looks as more standard way to do it. And more stable :-) We're running the Cygnus Kerberos, so I can't comment on ebones. Looks like the same stuff... Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 10:33:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA01019 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA00985 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id TAA10799 ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:32:56 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id TAA06149 ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:32:54 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id TAA28694; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:22:39 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602091822.TAA28694@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:22:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <319.823875522@critter.tfs.com> from Poul-Henning Kamp at "Feb 9, 96 03:18:42 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1630 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL5 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Poul-Henning Kamp said: > I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no > form is more unix-like and suitable than > > chmod 644 tty* > chown root.dev disk/* We could use something analog to the mtree description files for /devs entries... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Sun Feb 4 03:11:17 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 11:00:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02819 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02748 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:59:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04176; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:52:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199602091852.LAA04176@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:19:41 PST." <19922.823871981@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 11:52:55 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordon, >> Installing 2.2-960130-SNAP via medium NFS fails during "Commit" phase. >> I tried installing 6 or 7 times, each dying in one of 2 places. > >Hmmm. I've done several successful NFS installs with this SNAP >between my two test machines, so I can only conclude it's some weird >local configuration issue! Not to say that it's not a bug in >-current, but I don't think it's anywhere in the installation (for >once.. :-). I agree. Someone suggested that I try setting "NFS slow" option, that I am overrunning the 8bit 8003 card. I will try that sometime today and let you know what happens. Suggest any other experiments now, b4 I populate the disk and cannot redo installs... About the installation, I am using 2 identical disks (hope to use CCD) and was pleased to see it deal with 2 disks. However I couldn't get it to use sd1s1a (ie, a root partition) on the second drive. It wanted to start with prtition e, NOT a. If I let it pick the sizes it did the good thing: abefg. But assigning each size always started with e! I just saw something disturbing last nite. I found that I can "rsh {any of several 2.1.0-R machines}" from the new 2.2-SNAP but if I "rsh {2.2-SNAP} from one of the 2.1-R machines it always hangs. For example: 2.1-REL % rsh 2.2-SNAP ls will do the 'ls', showing me everything in the 2.2-SNAP directory, but will then be hung, even '^c' won't die, have to kiil from another term. I can reproduce this 100% of the time, always the one direction only. This is with hardware that has run previous versions of FreeBSD for years. Any tests I can run for you??? A question, ld.so doesn't like my shared 2.1 executables. Can I build a compat21 package, or must all dynamic execs be rebuilt? Finally, I have been getting truncated "current-digest" mailings, anyone else seen this? -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 11:00:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02936 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from main.statsci.com (main.statsci.com [198.145.127.110]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02812 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:00:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from block.statsci.com by main.statsci.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0tky2z-000r3zC; Fri, 9 Feb 96 10:59 PST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by block.statsci.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA20315; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:59:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199602091859.KAA20315@block.statsci.com> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Julian Elischer , terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 05:11:49 -0800." <19888.823871509@time.cdrom.com> Reply-to: scott@statsci.com Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:59:50 -0800 From: Scott Blachowicz Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > It has to work the way it works now, e.g. you should be able to just > walk into /dev (and that could be one of many incarnations of `dev', > remember) and futz with permissions or "delete" device entries you > don't want to be present for security reasons, and that information > should stay there across mounts. FYI...I think Solaris 2.x does this with some sort of special flag at the boot prompt. Maybe there could be a '-r' switch (I THINK that's what they use) to force regeneration of the device file entries? Scott Blachowicz Ph: 206/283-8802x240 Mathsoft (Data Analysis Products Div) 1700 Westlake Ave N #500 scott@statsci.com Seattle, WA USA 98109 Scott.Blachowicz@seaslug.org From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 12:13:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06893 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06888 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA11001; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:07:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602092007.NAA11001@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:07:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602091822.TAA28694@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 9, 96 07:22:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It seems that Poul-Henning Kamp said: > > I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no > > form is more unix-like and suitable than > > > > chmod 644 tty* > > chown root.dev disk/* > > We could use something analog to the mtree description files for /devs > entries... And you could "save" the current settings to the database in an "rc.shutdown" or some similar method. Or by making a daemon that makes a "get event" call to the devfs and returns on each chmod, etc. and makes the change immediately, in case you don't shut down cleanly. The point is, that this is a solvable problem, and you don't need to delay devfs deployment until after it is solved just because someone might want to someday need the soloution for some bogus legacy app. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 12:18:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07097 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:18:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07090 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA05534; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:16:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:16:57 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602092016.AA05534@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Ollivier Robert Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: devfs In-Reply-To: <199602091822.TAA28694@keltia.freenix.fr> References: <319.823875522@critter.tfs.com> <199602091822.TAA28694@keltia.freenix.fr> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk < said: > We could use something analog to the mtree description files for /devs > entries... Or we could just use mtree itself. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 12:20:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07177 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07172 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA00264; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:20:09 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602092020.MAA00264@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:20:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19888.823871509@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 05:11:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > I'm joking until I figure a way around the persistance problem personally I'll be using a kernel that will disable the use of devices on all kinds of filesystems other than devfs. Actually I think persistance is not a real problem, it's a PR excersize We're getting creamed by NT which doesn't have permissions persistance. I think a utility that allows the admin to tune the permissions of devices will make the screams go away. basically a little menu system similar to what you use in the install system. as output it produces a littel file called devs.rc that is run at boot. > Erm.. I know you're probably joking, but since you bring it up. I > don't think that we should even ever consider making devfs mandatory > (optional is fine, I don't mind optional) until a persistance > mechanism that's fully transparent to the user is implemented. > > I had UNIX old-timers walk up and tear *my* ears off over this after > Julian's talk at USENIX - they were not at all pleased by his answer > that he considered persistance "a user problem" :-) However, their > impassioned diatribes did give me a chance to consider the matter of > persistence more fully myself, I have to say that I find myself more > or less in full agreement with them. and I notice none of them really came up to ME and discussed it except for charles and CGD. I think it's one of thos things that they'll scream about then forget. There are a few possible things that can be done, e.g. union mounting devfs with the root disk and reading through only the permissions. but most of them are UGLY. I think I'm going to have to write the menu app before people believe me about this.. > > It has to work the way it works now, e.g. you should be able to just > walk into /dev (and that could be one of many incarnations of `dev', > remember) and futz with permissions or "delete" device entries you > don't want to be present for security reasons, and that information > should stay there across mounts. I disagree about this. > David, Justin, Sean and I stood > around for awhile thinking of some ways this might be done in a log > file somewhere, and I'm sure the problem isn't insurmountable. To NOT > do this and force our users to have to specifically edit chmod, mknods > or rm commands into /etc/rc in order to preserve their changes to /dev > across reboots, well, the phrase "a serious public reaming" comes to > mind when I contemplate the outcome. I think that is vastly overstating the problem. The more I think about it the more I think that it's not a problem. I think they'd have the same reaction if they went to AUS and discovered that handguns were illegal. They'd complain if their mothers cleaned up their bedrooms. I'd suggest a seprate utility to allow this to be done REALLY EASILY. One possibility I thought about was a user-land daemon that scans the directory every now and then (cron?) and notices changes.. alternatively there could be syslog option to send messages from the device filesystem out to some sort of log that get's replayed on bootup. I personally don't think it's a problem except in the minds of those who are stuck in the past. Things need to change. 1/ major numbers need to become dynamic 2/ devices shouldn't exist without their /dev/entries 3/ devices shouldn't exist with the WRONG /dev/entries 4/ /dev/entries with no corresponding device is also bogus 5/ minor numbers need to become dynamic for some device types 6/ devices need to be able to change their representation on the fly given this I don't see how there can be another answer, except for something that can pass through the sysctl interface and pull out all the minor numbers. That would be I think an ugly answer but one some-one else is welcome to try. Anyone who wants full persistance is welcome to use the old system and try work out what minor numbers are valid for the disk slices on the fly. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 12:25:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07390 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07381 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:25:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA00293; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:25:15 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602092025.MAA00293@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:25:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20406.823877228@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 06:47:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no > > form is more unix-like and suitable than > > > > chmod 644 tty* > > chown root.dev disk/* > > Actually, when we stood around discussing this, we agreed that the > "journaling" mechanism would have to deal with the addition of > wildcard rules like this. I understand the need to define permissions > for entire classes of devices, not just single ones. > > It's also not a question of smart or not smart, it's a question of > upholding the Principle of Least Astonishment and also not opening the > can of worms any farther than it has to be opened. By preserving the > old semantics, all your various shell scripts and system admin hacks > survive and you don't have the "multiple incarnation of /dev (say for > chroots) initialization problem" to worry about, either. I think that the principal of least astonishment has to be balanced against the problem of staying in the dark ages. I think that mount_devfs should be able to look somewhere for a configuration script regarding the filesystem it's making. however there is NO ANSWER anywhere, for what to do about a new device that just pops up... > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 13:07:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11515 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11508 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA11190; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:03:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602092103.OAA11190@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:03:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602092025.MAA00293@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 9, 96 12:25:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think that the principal of least astonishment has to be balanced against > the problem of staying in the dark ages. Here here! > I think that mount_devfs should be able to look somewhere for a > configuration script regarding the filesystem it's making. however there > is NO ANSWER anywhere, for what to do about a new device that just pops up... Permissions need to be part of the export information, like default user and group ownership. That is, defaults are provided by the device itself. As far as mount_devfs: I'd leave it out. You don't want to *ever* unmount the thing, and you want to *always* mount the thing -- or rather stuff it into the namespace. The one potential exception is to template and reexport the namespace elsewhere, for instance an ftpd chroot'ed environment. In reality, this should probably be handled via a special case of union or loopback mount. Other than that, "/devfs" should be mounted as mandatorily as "/" is mounted now. Some of the proposed mount changes I suggested would be useful for setting up "local root" per FS as volume designations, then mapping the devfs "volume" into the root FS or into the chrooted environment this way. For instance, automounting devfs as volume "//devfs", followed by mapping ("mounting") "//devfs/" to "/dev" as a "mount". Default volume permissions can prohibit access to non-root (or not) as desired. For instance, a symlink to the POSIX mandated escape could let you default permissions on a CDROM device such that the symlink resulting from the following command allows access of an intermittently available common CDROM resource: ln -s //cdrom0/ /cdrom Escapes further into the name space would allow volume identification ln -s "//cdrom0:CIA Map Database/" /cdrom/cia And then cause an operator mount request, etc.. This would all have to wait until everything that could be mounted is mounted by the device discovery process calling back the mount code during device "registration" of each slice, or whatever. -current does not need to be generally usable for all potential applications at any given time; look at the recent CCITT hoo-rah. Delaying anon FTP server usability until a loopback or multi-instance mount capability exists seems like an acceptable thing to do, as long as the condition doesn't persist too long. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:22:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18920 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18912 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21608; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:21:50 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 09:13:01 MST." <199602091613.JAA10469@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:21:50 -0800 Message-ID: <21606.823904510@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think that *not* requiring the implementation of the persistance > facility (think netbooting, again) prior to deployment of a mandatory > devfs is a *major* incentive to cause the feature to be added by the > people who feel they need it. The lag on the developement of the > ability to save "boot -c" data after "boot -c" was implemented was not > an inherently bad thing. But -c was never a critical part of the system, and certainly not *mandatory*. I remain unconvinced by your arguments, I'm afraid. I don't think that devfs should ever be *mandatory* until the current semantics, which are known even if not necessarily loved by a generation of UNIX hackers, are preserved. Let's make it optional, sure, but mandatory? In its proposed form? You've got to be kidding. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:24:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19309 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19296 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21634; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:23:53 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 09:20:39 MST." <199602091620.JAA10495@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:23:53 -0800 Message-ID: <21631.823904633@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > By this argument, we should restrict ourselves to strict SVR3 > compatability; after all, there are more SCO boxes than any other > UNIX or UNIX-clone system in existance. Sorry, Terry - you're having a different argument from the one I'm having. Come back when you're in sync. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:28:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19662 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19618 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA11368; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:24:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602092224.PAA11368@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:24:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21606.823904510@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 02:21:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I think that *not* requiring the implementation of the persistance > > facility (think netbooting, again) prior to deployment of a mandatory > > devfs is a *major* incentive to cause the feature to be added by the > > people who feel they need it. The lag on the developement of the > > ability to save "boot -c" data after "boot -c" was implemented was not > > an inherently bad thing. > > But -c was never a critical part of the system, and certainly not > *mandatory*. I remain unconvinced by your arguments, I'm afraid. So you would maintain that the ability to run legacy applications is a critical part of the system? What constitutes a legacy app? Any shell script since V7? I'm afraid I can't agree with you. > I don't think that devfs should ever be *mandatory* until the current > semantics, which are known even if not necessarily loved by a > generation of UNIX hackers, are preserved. Let's make it optional, > sure, but mandatory? In its proposed form? You've got to be > kidding. What, precisely, do you think its proposed form *is*? I think we may be looking at different proposals... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:41:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA20994 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20972 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA13819 ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:40:53 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA07046 ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:40:53 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id WAA04364; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:58:51 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602092158.WAA04364@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:58:51 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Current Users' list) In-Reply-To: <199602092007.NAA11001@phaeton.artisoft.com> from Terry Lambert at "Feb 9, 96 01:07:38 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1630 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL5 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Terry Lambert said: > And you could "save" the current settings to the database in an > "rc.shutdown" or some similar method. Don't talk to me about rc.shutdown, I still have my patches to init for it :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Sun Feb 4 03:11:17 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:41:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21011 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20995 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00618; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:40:54 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602092240.OAA00618@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:40:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21606.823904510@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 02:21:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I think that *not* requiring the implementation of the persistance > > facility (think netbooting, again) prior to deployment of a mandatory > > devfs is a *major* incentive to cause the feature to be added by the > > people who feel they need it. The lag on the developement of the > > ability to save "boot -c" data after "boot -c" was implemented was not > > an inherently bad thing. > > But -c was never a critical part of the system, and certainly not > *mandatory*. I remain unconvinced by your arguments, I'm afraid. > > I don't think that devfs should ever be *mandatory* until the current > semantics, which are known even if not necessarily loved by a > generation of UNIX hackers, are preserved. Let's make it optional, > sure, but mandatory? In its proposed form? You've got to be > kidding. > > Jordan > I plan on it being default, though not mandatory at this time, however I think that it duplicates the known semantics enough to make it mandatory. I think that the persistance factor is a security issue and can be dealt with by the use of a special tool to handle the issue. As I said, it's possible that syslog might be used for loging these changes, however I think that the persistance argument is in fact a red herring. Devices are not a property of a filesystem and have no purpose being in such. Devices are a property of the particular hardware/System and puting devices in the filesystem is a semantically broken concept. DMR once said that it was done that way because they couldn't afford the memory to impliment a flexible dynamic method on a pdp11. What does plan 9 do? From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:41:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21128 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21119 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:41:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21808; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:40:49 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert), phk@critter.tfs.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 13:07:38 MST." <199602092007.NAA11001@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:40:49 -0800 Message-ID: <21806.823905649@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > And you could "save" the current settings to the database in an > "rc.shutdown" or some similar method. I don't care where it lives, just so long as it's transparent and I don't have to learn about the secret life of Yet Another Etc File. > The point is, that this is a solvable problem, and you don't need to > delay devfs deployment until after it is solved just because someone Terry, I'm wondering if you've gone blind here again or something because I've said *several* times that there's NO PROBLEM WITH DEPLOYING IT RIGHT NOW, JUST DON'T MAKE IT FRIGGIN' *MANDATORY* YET UNTIL IT'S FIXED! I'm hoping that capital letters will penetrate your cranium since no other forms of explanation seem to have succeeded so far! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 14:49:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA21956 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21951 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA21840; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:48:19 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 12:25:15 PST." <199602092025.MAA00293@ref.tfs.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:48:18 -0800 Message-ID: <21838.823906098@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think that mount_devfs should be able to look somewhere for a > configuration script regarding the filesystem it's making. however there > is NO ANSWER anywhere, for what to do about a new device that just pops up... That's a different problem, and not one I even suggested we try and address. It's also not in any way relevant to the current discussion. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 15:11:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA23963 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23958 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:11:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA11482; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:06:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602092306.QAA11482@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:06:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, roberto@keltia.freenix.fr, phk@critter.tfs.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <21806.823905649@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 02:40:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Terry, I'm wondering if you've gone blind here again or something > because I've said *several* times that there's NO PROBLEM WITH > DEPLOYING IT RIGHT NOW, JUST DON'T MAKE IT FRIGGIN' *MANDATORY* YET > UNTIL IT'S FIXED! > > I'm hoping that capital letters will penetrate your cranium since no > other forms of explanation seem to have succeeded so far! :-) OK. Don't make devfs mandatory. Make it optional and included by default. But make specfs optional and excluded by default... The same way procfs wasn't mandatory for a long time. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 15:29:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25436 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:29:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (sunrise.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.38.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25429 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA21079; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:32:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:32:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199602092332.PAA21079@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu> To: jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199602091300.VAA05446@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw> (message from Chien-Ta Lee on Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:00:41 +0800 (CST)) Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * My problem went away with Rev 1.10, too. * I will make a world later to test the stability of the kernel. * Thanks John !! :) My make world completed without a hitch. Thanks John from me too! :) Satoshi From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 15:40:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA26571 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA26564 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:40:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA28684; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:39:30 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199602092339.PAA28684@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:39:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602091822.TAA28694@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 9, 96 07:22:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > It seems that Poul-Henning Kamp said: > > I want to be able to define a policy for permissions in /dev, and no > > form is more unix-like and suitable than > > > > chmod 644 tty* > > chown root.dev disk/* > > We could use something analog to the mtree description files for /devs > entries... You could just USE mtree. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 16:56:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA09985 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from onyx.nervosa.com (nervosa.com [192.187.228.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA09886 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from coredump@localhost) by onyx.nervosa.com (8.7.3/nervosa.com.2) id QAA00966; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:55:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: invalid opcode To: FreeBSD-current Subject: How Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Just how dangerous is it to mount disks with async? If your machine somehow crashes, do you rick losing all your data? Of course, you risk that with sync also... Chris Layne, coredump@nervosa.com From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 17:14:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20844 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20839 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA00239; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:10:32 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199602092010.UAA00239@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: new pipe is broken (Feb-6) To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:10:32 +0000 () Cc: jdli@linux.csie.nctu.edu.tw, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602092332.PAA21079@sunrise.cs.berkeley.edu> from "Satoshi Asami" at Feb 9, 96 03:32:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > * My problem went away with Rev 1.10, too. > * I will make a world later to test the stability of the kernel. > * Thanks John !! :) > > My make world completed without a hitch. Thanks John from me too! :) > I get quite angry with myself when I leave bugs in the code, wasting other people's time. Thank you for being patient. John From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 18:57:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA07651 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07645 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA06394; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:48:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199602100248.TAA06394@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 00:18:00 +0100." <199602082318.AAA12395@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:48:46 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, >[Install errors for NFS] > >> [lines deleted] > >> ed0 at 0x280-0x29f irq 5 maddr 0xd8000 msize 8192 on isa >> ed0: address 00:00:c0:ac:7e:14, type WD8003E (8 bit) > >Select ``NFS slow'' in the options menu. Your 8-bit ethernet card is >being swamped with 8-KB NFS packets. (My 3C503 did show this, too, >even though the server does also use a 3C503 only.) Thanx, that fixed the problem! As I stated b4, I can do a 2.1.0-RELEASE install on exact same hardware without this problem. So: 1: this is the expected behavior now and the possible need for the "NFS slow" option should be well documented. or 2: something needs fixing. -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 19:10:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA08396 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA08369 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:10:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602100310.TAA08369@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:10:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602091752.KAA23449@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 9, 96 10:52:46 am From: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Warner Losh writes: > > : Hows about running E-bones there? > : It allows rcp/rlogin/telnet without security risk. > : I know about SSH, but Kerberos looks as more standard way to do it. > > And more stable :-) > > We're running the Cygnus Kerberos, so I can't comment on ebones. > Looks like the same stuff... Is eBones compatible with KerberosIV? I mean, I have kerberos on some of my computers, and I've heard encryption (or something else) isn't compatible beetween kerberos and ebones. So, basically the question is: will I be able to use eBones/kerberos encryption if I go from kerberos machine to eBones server? > > Warner > -- dima From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 19:33:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA09939 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09933 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA13444; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:30:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602100330.UAA13444@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How To: coredump@onyx.nervosa.com (invalid opcode) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:30:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "invalid opcode" at Feb 9, 96 04:55:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Just how dangerous is it to mount disks with async? If your machine > somehow crashes, do you rick losing all your data? Of course, you risk > that with sync also... IMO, very dangerous. The fsck utility (see the paper in the source tree) *depends* on the ordering of operations. The async option allows the cluster code to reorder writes, since it does not insist on the write to disk taking place before the call returns. This potentially allows you to queue a large number of order-dependent operations, and have some of them committed out of sequence at the time of the crash. If you have a UPS and are relatively confident of the stability of the platform, then it is possible for it to be less dangerous (but still more dangerous than doing sync writes). The main point of the sync operations is to cause the FS operations which modify the file system structure itself to be idempotent (see the VIVAFS paper for an analysis of what is or isn't an operation that can be async); in other words, meta-data. Using sync operations, you can only lose the last meta-data operation that occured before the crash, and then only in rare cases of the write to disk being unable to complete on the remaining energy in the system. The general result is that directory entries for files created before the last "sync" by the "update" process will end up in lost+found (but only the name information will be lost) if the power fails. To allow your system to *always* be recoverable (even if data writes to open files may be lost), you should mount sync. To guard against data loss is an application-specific problem. There is O_WRITESYNC to cause data writes to be synchronus, and there are various techniques, such as journalling, logging, and transaction tracking (multi stage commit, etc.) that should be implemented in the application. For anything other than initial install, copying, archiving, async is a bad bet. For those particular operations, it's a big win. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 19:36:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA10384 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10378 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id UAA24921; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:36:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199602100336.UAA24921@rover.village.org> To: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban) Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Cc: ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:10:02 PST Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 20:36:42 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Is eBones compatible with KerberosIV? I mean, I have kerberos on : some of my computers, and I've heard encryption (or something else) isn't : compatible beetween kerberos and ebones. So, basically the question is: : will I be able to use eBones/kerberos encryption if I go from : kerberos machine to eBones server? I'm not sure what the exact interoperability status is. To date I've just usered our version to access machines that are running our version. I've heard conflicting things about eBones vs KerberosIV. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 21:43:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA18885 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18876 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:43:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA25958; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:43:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199602100543.WAA25958@rover.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: How Cc: coredump@onyx.nervosa.com (invalid opcode), current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 09 Feb 1996 20:30:41 MST Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 22:43:06 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : To allow your system to *always* be recoverable (even if data writes : to open files may be lost), you should mount sync. Except when the meta data writes fail, of course... : For anything other than initial install, copying, archiving, async : is a bad bet. For those particular operations, it's a big win. It can also be good on a partition devoted solely to news that is allowed to be newfs on data corruption as well... Warner From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 22:35:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA21622 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from gwydion.hns.st-louis.mo.us (root@dialup-128.icon-stl.net [199.217.153.128]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21617 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kenth@localhost) by gwydion.hns.st-louis.mo.us (8.7.3/8.7.2) id AAA00595; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:33:54 -0600 (CST) From: Kent Hamilton Message-Id: <199602100633.AAA00595@gwydion.hns.st-louis.mo.us> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:33:54 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602092020.MAA00264@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 9, 96 12:20:09 pm Reply-To: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > > > I'm joking until I figure a way around the persistance problem > personally I'll be using a kernel that will disable the use of devices > on all kinds of filesystems other than devfs. > > Actually I think persistance is not a real problem, it's a PR excersize > We're getting creamed by NT which doesn't have permissions persistance. > I think a utility that allows the admin to tune the permissions of devices > will make the screams go away. > > basically a little menu system similar to what you use in the > install system. > as output it produces a littel file called devs.rc that is run at boot. I've never seen the proposal for this stuff (I only subscribe to -current)... so I may be way off on my understanding of what we are talking about, but... I'll still toss in my two sense :-) Where can I find a copy of the proposal for this anyway? I am a sysadmin for a company and we use a couple of FreeBSD systems currently. If I change a device file then there was a damn good reason for it and I want it to still be that way when the system re-boots. I *don't* want to have to wade through YACMS (Yet Another Cute Menu System) to have to make those changes stick either. I *do* really like the entire idea behind devfs and if there is a way to make it stick across boots, etc. that doesn't require my having to take extra steps to do it then I'd be happy to see it. [deleted] > > > > It has to work the way it works now, e.g. you should be able to just > > walk into /dev (and that could be one of many incarnations of `dev', > > remember) and futz with permissions or "delete" device entries you > > don't want to be present for security reasons, and that information > > should stay there across mounts. > > I disagree about this. I *strongly* disagree with you. If I change the dev's on my firewall I expect 'em to damn well stay changed and the first time they don't I first go searching for the person that hacked the firewall, then finding nothing, I dump it and rebuild it from scratch assuming that I've just been badly beaten at my game. Now you tell me that they won't stay that way? I dump it and get a new o/s. > I'd suggest a seprate utility to allow this to be done REALLY EASILY. > One possibility I thought about was a user-land daemon that > scans the directory every now and then (cron?) > and notices changes.. alternatively there could be syslog option to > send messages from the device filesystem out to some sort of log > that get's replayed on bootup. I could live with a cron job that scans for changes and records 'em. > I personally don't think it's a problem except in the minds of those > who are stuck in the past. Things need to change. > > 1/ major numbers need to become dynamic > 2/ devices shouldn't exist without their /dev/entries > 3/ devices shouldn't exist with the WRONG /dev/entries > 4/ /dev/entries with no corresponding device is also bogus > 5/ minor numbers need to become dynamic for some device types > 6/ devices need to be able to change their representation on the fly > > given this I don't see how there can be another answer, except for > something that can pass through the sysctl interface and pull out all the > minor numbers. That would be I think an ugly answer but one some-one else > is welcome to try. > > Anyone who wants full persistance is welcome to > use the old system and try work out what minor numbers are valid for the > disk slices on the fly. I'd agree that things need to change, *but* not at the expense of my ass. If I don't feel the system is going to be secure because of the changes then it's real simple. I won't use it. Also, just curious, how do you plan to handle any applications like, as an example, Informix OnLine which expect to be handed a raw partition (slice) owned by informix.informix mode 660 and won't work unless it get's it. Call it a "legacy app" and forget it? (And yes I know it doesn't apply to FreeBSD, but who knows.... I've run the "Standard Engine" version on FreeBSD under the IBCS emulator and it worked for my *really* limited testing, had to swipe a couple libraries from a SCO box as I recall though.) Anyway I hope I didn't miss the point of this whole thing tooooo badly. -- Kent Hamilton Work: KHamilton@Hunter.COM URL: http://www.icon-stl.net/~khamilto Play: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:06:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23236 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:06:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23231 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23147; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:05:17 -0800 To: Steve Passe cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:48:46 MST." <199602100248.TAA06394@clem.systemsix.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 23:05:17 -0800 Message-ID: <23145.823935917@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > 1: this is the expected behavior now and the possible need for the "NFS slow "> option should be well documented. It is, you probably just never read the installation guide or hit F1 in any of the installation screens.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:44:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25286 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA25197 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27950; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:39:08 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602100739.JAA27950@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:39:07 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Warner Losh wrote: > : Hows about running E-bones there? > : It allows rcp/rlogin/telnet without security risk. > : I know about SSH, but Kerberos looks as more standard way to do it. > > And more stable :-) > > We're running the Cygnus Kerberos, so I can't comment on ebones. > Looks like the same stuff... We've got it, we may as well use it. I vote for it too... M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:45:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25333 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA25327 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:45:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27983; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:44:50 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602100744.JAA27983@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: dima@FreeBSD.ORG (Dima Ruban) cc: imp@village.org (Warner Losh), ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:44:50 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > We're running the Cygnus Kerberos, so I can't comment on ebones. > > Looks like the same stuff... > > Is eBones compatible with KerberosIV? I mean, I have kerberos on > some of my computers, and I've heard encryption (or something else) isn't > compatible beetween kerberos and ebones. So, basically the question is: > will I be able to use eBones/kerberos encryption if I go from > kerberos machine to eBones server? A couple of years ago when Geoff Rehmet and others ported Kerberos/eBones it was tested against a known good Kerberos system. I suppose now is the time to see if it still good. The DES library used in freeBSD has been around for a while and is well respected, even to the extent of being used in Kerberos5. (This is Eric Young's DES library.) M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:46:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25376 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA25370 Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28000; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:45:34 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602100745.JAA28000@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Warner Losh cc: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban), ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:45:34 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure what the exact interoperability status is. To date I've > just usered our version to access machines that are running our > version. I've heard conflicting things about eBones vs KerberosIV. Such as? M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:49:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25505 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25496 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23359; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:48:48 -0800 To: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:33:54 CST." <199602100633.AAA00595@gwydion.hns.st-louis.mo.us> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 23:48:48 -0800 Message-ID: <23357.823938528@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I *strongly* disagree with you. If I change the dev's on my firewall > I expect 'em to damn well stay changed and the first time they don't > I first go searching for the person that hacked the firewall, then > finding nothing, I dump it and rebuild it from scratch assuming that > I've just been badly beaten at my game. Now you tell me that they won't > stay that way? I dump it and get a new o/s. FWIW, this is almost word-for-word what the folks at USENIX told me and Julian will almost certainly never convince me that this is a problem that can be dismissed lightly. I will fight long and hard for compatibility because I happen to think that I'm 100% right about how users will feel about this, and if no one else will speak for them, I will. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Fri Feb 9 23:59:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA26042 for current-outgoing; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA26033 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:59:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA23419; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:58:18 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer), phk@critter.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:03:24 MST." <199602092103.OAA11190@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 23:58:18 -0800 Message-ID: <23417.823939098@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I think that the principal of least astonishment has to be balanced against > > the problem of staying in the dark ages. > > Here here! Loud sigh. And I suppose both of you feel that seat belts, and those who wear them, are old fuddy-duddy throw-backs to the age of the horse and buggy. "We don't support the idea of seat belts," says Terry Lambert. "Furthermore, we've eliminated the steering wheel and break pedal, replacing them with an advanced full voice command system. Sure, it often takes a couple of minutes to get it to pay attention to your screams of ``AIGH! STOP! STOP!!!'' but progress is worth such sacrifices." :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 00:38:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA27621 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA27616 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA02287; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:36:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602100836.AAA02287@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Mark Murray cc: Warner Losh , dima@FreeBSD.ORG (Dima Ruban), ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:45:34 +0200." <199602100745.JAA28000@grumble.grondar.za> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:36:45 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk This isn't a K4/eBones conflict issue, but if you want to do this, you damn well should get our kerberos up to K4/pl10 before doing this. I found a bunch o bugs when I did this previously and finally gave up in frustration. Once you get it up to K4pl10, diff k4pl10 against the cygnus code and bring in their bug fixes. Rather than do this, I realized that Kerberos 4 is dead and deleted it from my system and moved to ssh. ssh makes much more sense in a multi- realm environment. Kerberos is great for working inside an organization. Paul From: Mark Murray Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? > I'm not sure what the exact interoperability status is. To date I've > just usered our version to access machines that are running our > version. I've heard conflicting things about eBones vs KerberosIV. Such as? M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 02:12:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA01632 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 02:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA01627 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 02:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id FAA09487 for current@freebsd.org; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 05:17:48 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602101017.FAA09487@hda.com> Subject: devfs persistence (was FSP:TNG) To: current@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 05:17:47 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <23357.823938528@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 11:48:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > I *strongly* disagree with you. If I change the dev's on my firewall > > I expect 'em to damn well stay changed and the first time they don't > > I first go searching for the person that hacked the firewall, then > > finding nothing, I dump it and rebuild it from scratch assuming that > > I've just been badly beaten at my game. Now you tell me that they won't > > stay that way? I dump it and get a new o/s. > > FWIW, this is almost word-for-word what the folks at USENIX told me > and Julian will almost certainly never convince me that this is a > problem that can be dismissed lightly. I will fight long and hard for > compatibility because I happen to think that I'm 100% right about how > users will feel about this, and if no one else will speak for them, > I will. My first question about Julian's devfs was how it lasted across reboots (and the answer was an rc answer at the time). I think it again points toward a second boot file that stores configuration - after all, in addition to devfs you want to store away which drivers to lkm in - they are coupled. This is (IMHO) flatly a requirement on devfs. It has to work the same way as it does now as well as any new way. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 09:12:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00997 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from cabri.obs-besancon.fr (cabri.obs-besancon.fr [193.52.184.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00992 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by cabri.obs-besancon.fr (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15017; Sat, 10 Feb 96 18:13:42 +0100 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 18:13:42 +0100 Message-Id: <9602101713.AA15017@cabri.obs-besancon.fr> From: Jean-Marc Zucconi To: current@freebsd.org Subject: make world do not complete X-Mailer: Emacs Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ===> usr.bin/dig cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -c /u3/src/usr.bin/dig/dig.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -c /u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup/debug.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -c /u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup/list.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -c /u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup/send.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -c /u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup/subr.c cc -O2 -m486 -pipe -fno-strength-reduce -I/u3/src/usr.bin/dig/../../usr.sbin/nslookup -o dig dig.o debug.o list.o send.o subr.o debug.o: Undefined symbol `_iso_ntoa' referenced from text segment list.o: Undefined symbol `_iso_ntoa' referenced from text segment *** Error code 1 Stop. Jean-Marc _____________________________________________________________________________ Jean-Marc Zucconi Observatoire de Besancon F 25010 Besancon cedex PGP Key: finger jmz@cabri.obs-besancon.fr ============================================================================= From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 09:56:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02730 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02714 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA05969 for current@freebsd.org; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 04:52:09 +1100 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 04:52:09 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602101752.EAA05969@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: calibrating clocks Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I plan to calibrate all the system clocks relative to the MC14618A (RTC) clock and perhaps use the results automatically. Sample results on a P133 for a sequence of calibrations run at boot time: i586 clock: 132622900 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193105 Hz i586 clock: 132622822 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz i586 clock: 132622698 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193102 Hz i586 clock: 132623058 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193106 Hz i586 clock: 132623478 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193109 Hz i586 clock: 132622866 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz i586 clock: 132622752 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193102 Hz i586 clock: 132622934 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193104 Hz i586 clock: 132623418 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193108 Hz i586 clock: 132623486 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193109 Hz i586 clock: 132623470 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193109 Hz i586 clock: 132623470 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193109 Hz i586 clock: 132623368 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193108 Hz i586 clock: 132622782 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz i586 clock: 132622858 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz i586 clock: 132622870 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz i586 clock: 132622814 Hz, i8254 clock: 1193103 Hz The calibration method and all the clocks were relatively accurate to within about 5 ppm in all of my tests. The current method of calibrating the i586 (using DELAY()) should be at most 20 ppm less accurate (it apparently isn't). The nominal frequency of the i8254 clock is 1193182. This agrees well with the above. On another system, the calibration gives about 1192100, which turns out to be very accurate, so automatically adjusting TIMER_FREQ to it works well. On a third system, the calibration gives about 1193650, which turns out to be less accurate than the nominal frequency. I use r/w sysctl variables to tweak the frequencies. machdep.i586_freq: 132622930 machdep.i8254_freq: 1193105 Bruce From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 10:00:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA02897 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02887 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA00992; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:59:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199602101759.KAA00992@rover.village.org> To: Mark Murray Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Cc: dima@FreeBSD.org (Dima Ruban), ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:45:34 +0200 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:59:15 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Such as? I have heard that different kerberoses use different port numbers and that the encryption isn't completely standardized. However, I have not experienced these problems first hand. The village isn't using the Kerberos that ships with FreeBSD/eBones. We're using the cygnus one from middle last yearish plus a boatload of patches to make it work on 64 bit machines properly. One of the folks in the village does volunteer work at the local university, and this was what he did as part of a security improvement. We've also added a TCP option to get tickets so that we can get through various firewalls (outbound, which is permitted by their policies). Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 10:54:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA04817 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:54:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04807 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:54:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA16187; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:49:57 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602101849.LAA16187@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:49:57 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, julian@ref.tfs.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <23417.823939098@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 11:58:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > And I suppose both of you feel that seat belts, and those who wear > them, are old fuddy-duddy throw-backs to the age of the horse and > buggy. "We don't support the idea of seat belts," says Terry Lambert. > "Furthermore, we've eliminated the steering wheel and break pedal, > replacing them with an advanced full voice command system. Sure, it > often takes a couple of minutes to get it to pay attention to your > screams of ``AIGH! STOP! STOP!!!'' but progress is worth such > sacrifices." I wouldn't go so far as to eliminate seatbelts. But since a two channel military grade GPS with key and generator is accurate to much less than a car width, I do think automated driver systems are feasible, and should probably be built. I'm happy to be lumped into the same category as DMR and the Plan9 "fanatics" in your book. When given the choice between evolutionary (with not much progress) and revolutionary (with not much grandfathering of obsolete crap), I *do* tend to pick revolutionary. Consider me a counterbalance. Not that I think your anaology holds water or anything. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 11:13:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA05794 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05789 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA16261; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:08:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602101908.MAA16261@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:08:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, julian@ref.tfs.com, terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <23357.823938528@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 11:48:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I *strongly* disagree with you. If I change the dev's on my firewall > > I expect 'em to damn well stay changed and the first time they don't > > I first go searching for the person that hacked the firewall, then > > finding nothing, I dump it and rebuild it from scratch assuming that > > I've just been badly beaten at my game. Now you tell me that they won't > > stay that way? I dump it and get a new o/s. > > FWIW, this is almost word-for-word what the folks at USENIX told me > and Julian will almost certainly never convince me that this is a > problem that can be dismissed lightly. I will fight long and hard for > compatibility because I happen to think that I'm 100% right about how > users will feel about this, and if no one else will speak for them, > I will. Jordan, how does dset work? I mean, the kernel has some settings for which devices are to be probed/enabled by default, you change them administratively, and dset makes the changes persistant. I guess it's not conceivable that a similar persistance mechanism could be used for device permissions. Like the following in /etc/rc assures the persistance of pty permissions in the current distribution: # Whack the pty perms back into shape. chmod 666 /dev/tty[pqrs]* Clearly, the /etc/rc file is the wrong place for this (I see it's there -- too bad this isn't a devfs so that this ugly wart wouldn't be necessary). I see no philosophical difference from one administrative override that modifies the default kernel and another that modifies the same file, but operates on different data. Without a prebuilt tool for doing this, you can accomplish exactly the same thing, either within /etc/rc, using mtree, or by modifying the device registration lines on a per driver basis and rebuilding your kernel. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 11:21:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06087 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ormail.intel.com (ormail.intel.com [134.134.192.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06081 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:21:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ichips.intel.com (ichips.intel.com [134.134.50.200]) by ormail.intel.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA26202; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:21:35 -0800 Received: from pdx202 by ichips.intel.com (8.7.1/jIII); Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:21:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602101921.LAA12306@ichips.intel.com> To: Terry Lambert cc: coredump@onyx.nervosa.com (invalid opcode), current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 09 Feb 1996 20:30:41 PST." <199602100330.UAA13444@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:21:15 -0800 From: Wayne Scott Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Just how dangerous is it to mount disks with async? If your machine > > somehow crashes, do you rick losing all your data? Of course, you risk > > that with sync also... > > IMO, very dangerous. Terry, Thanks for a good explaination of sync vs. async. I believe the Linux ext2 file system is always async. Is that filesystem just as unstable or do they do something else to make it easier to recover in the case of a crash. I have crashed Linux systems many many times and have not noticed a real problem recovering. Am I just lucky? -Wayne From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 11:47:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07149 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07142 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA16319; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:42:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602101942.MAA16319@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:42:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: julian@ref.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602100633.AAA00595@gwydion.hns.st-louis.mo.us> from "Kent Hamilton" at Feb 10, 96 00:33:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > hmm but devfs might be compulsory :) > > > > > I'm joking until I figure a way around the persistance problem > > personally I'll be using a kernel that will disable the use of devices > > on all kinds of filesystems other than devfs. > > > > Actually I think persistance is not a real problem, it's a PR excersize > > We're getting creamed by NT which doesn't have permissions persistance. > > I think a utility that allows the admin to tune the permissions of devices > > will make the screams go away. > > > > basically a little menu system similar to what you use in the > > install system. > > as output it produces a littel file called devs.rc that is run at boot. > > I've never seen the proposal for this stuff (I only subscribe > to -current)... so I may be way off on my understanding of what > we are talking about, but... I'll still toss in my two sense :-) > Where can I find a copy of the proposal for this anyway? The rationale for a devfs can be seen in the rationale documents for AIX and Solaris. It can also be seen in the historical discussion of the devfs for nearly two years now on the -hackers, and later on the -current list. There are a number of Usenix papers also dealing with devfs concepts, each with a rationale. Finally, there is rationale in the argument against my original patchkit and the centralization of semaphore control for the code repository (the primary reason for the existance of a core team). Details: A devfs decentralizes one of the annoying controls: the same one I had with the assignment of patch numbers in the patchkit code, the need for a number. For devices, specifically the need for a major number assignment. Using a MAKEDEV mechanism to create /dev entries requires that the MAKEDEV major number assignment match the kernel major number assignment. This requires a central registry and control of the central registry to synchronize requests as single-threaded transactions to avoid collisions. A devfs dynamically assigns the numbers -- replacing them with a symbolic reference that is potentially different from boot-to-boot. And it gets rid of the administrative headache of assignment and opens up driver develeopment. A devfs helps LKM-based devices. It allows registration of more than one device interface per driver (a problem with a traditonal LKM device table substitution). It also, by virtue of name space export rather than node creation, eliminates the need to know the assigned major number for a loaded device in order to create /dev device node entries for it. A devfs provides a framework in which it is easy to produce cloning devices. This allows dynamic allocation of things like pty's, which have historically be statically preallocated as an administrative trade-off based on expected utilization. These are cloning devices. With a clone device (for rationale, see Usenix papers on cloning devices), you don't have to precalculate the trade-off for each system you install (or provide complex administrative guidelines with guesses for expected "typical configurations" that a site administrator has to rebuild a kernel to implement). A devfs provides a framework that is not limited by zone assignment of typical minor numbers. For instance, a major number for a SCSI driver, and then bit-division of minor numbers for target (3 bits), Lun (6 bits), leaving 7 bits to divide among other controllers, per disk partitions, per partition slices, etc.. You quickly use up the 16 bits available via NFS from some systems -- what do you do: artificially limit some ranges and screw some users? Use more than 16 bits, and screw some some users doing diskless/dataless/etc. configurations? Because you effectively carry the /dev directory around with the kernel, there is no need to "go remote" to get your device nodes. Devices are local to a kernel instance, /dev entries should be too. And this only scratches the surface; the opportunities for device and logical device interaction for file system support (volume spanning, RAID, media perfection, alternate disk partitioning mechanisms, cross mounting of "foreign" file systems) is absolutely huge. As is the potential for positive impact on nomadic computing and/or removable media on fixed location systems. > I am a sysadmin for a company and we use a couple of FreeBSD systems > currently. If I change a device file then there was a damn good > reason for it and I want it to still be that way when the system > re-boots. I *don't* want to have to wade through YACMS (Yet Another > Cute Menu System) to have to make those changes stick either. > > I *do* really like the entire idea behind devfs and if there is a > way to make it stick across boots, etc. that doesn't require my having > to take extra steps to do it then I'd be happy to see it. There are multiple ways to do this. They just haven't been implemented in the current devfs code, other than as source file changes. > I *strongly* disagree with you. If I change the dev's on my firewall > I expect 'em to damn well stay changed and the first time they don't > I first go searching for the person that hacked the firewall, then > finding nothing, I dump it and rebuild it from scratch assuming that > I've just been badly beaten at my game. Now you tell me that they won't > stay that way? I dump it and get a new o/s. A devfs implementation would allow you to lock them against change based on security level. Just like immutable files via chflags. This is an administrative win beyond what is available to you now. > Also, just curious, how do you plan to handle any applications like, > as an example, Informix OnLine which expect to be handed a raw partition > (slice) owned by informix.informix mode 660 and won't work unless it > get's it. Call it a "legacy app" and forget it? (And yes I know it > doesn't apply to FreeBSD, but who knows.... I've run the "Standard > Engine" version on FreeBSD under the IBCS emulator and it worked for > my *really* limited testing, had to swipe a couple libraries from a > SCO box as I recall though.) Chmod the device in the rc script, if necessary. The Informix engine should probably be started there anyway. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 11:55:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA07519 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA07509 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA16344; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:49:34 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602101949.MAA16344@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How To: wscott@ichips.intel.com (Wayne Scott) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:49:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, coredump@onyx.nervosa.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602101921.LAA12306@ichips.intel.com> from "Wayne Scott" at Feb 10, 96 11:21:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > Just how dangerous is it to mount disks with async? If your machine > > > somehow crashes, do you rick losing all your data? Of course, you risk > > > that with sync also... > > > > IMO, very dangerous. > > Terry, > > Thanks for a good explaination of sync vs. async. > > I believe the Linux ext2 file system is always async. Is that > filesystem just as unstable or do they do something else to make it > easier to recover in the case of a crash. > > I have crashed Linux systems many many times and have not noticed a > real problem recovering. Am I just lucky? The combine metadata writes. This makes it less likely that the damage would be spread out (BSD async does the same thing). They sync frequently. This reduces the effectiveness of the cache and of the async settings. I think you have just been lucky. The typical "benchmark" they "win" on is the massive create followed by the massive delete in the lmbench suite, and Larry McVoy is known to have a strong personal bias toward Linux. I can not think of a situation that is not an abuse of the file system as a database (like terminfo files, only worse), or is not an administrative function (where an async mount could be done relatively safely) that would need the ability to create and then delete a lot of files fast. The benchmark *claims* compilers -- but since temp file systems can be non-persistant across reboots, both async and ramdisk approaches are viable, and the ramdisk approach is significantly faster. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 12:05:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08046 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08041 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA16375; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:02:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602102002.NAA16375@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:02:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, coredump@onyx.nervosa.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602100543.WAA25958@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 9, 96 10:43:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > : To allow your system to *always* be recoverable (even if data writes > : to open files may be lost), you should mount sync. > > Except when the meta data writes fail, of course... You mean a hardware failure, right? A single failed metadata write as a result of a crash before the write completes is *always* recoverable with fsck. A hardware failure will either transparently forward the failed sector, or if bad sector forwarding is being handled in software, the BAD144 layer will cause the soft bad block map to be updated and, again, the failed write will be remapped. For read failures, the effect is also always recoverable, though it may take several passes on fsck (I posted a recent patch to fsck's dynamic lost+found creation to reduce the number of passes by one). The real problem becomes soft forwarding on corrupt media in the FS structure data. This is actually fixable by imposing the media perfection below the "disklabel" mechanism -- a pro-devfs argument, actually, since that's one approach to doing that. > : For anything other than initial install, copying, archiving, async > : is a bad bet. For those particular operations, it's a big win. > > It can also be good on a partition devoted solely to news that is > allowed to be newfs on data corruption as well... Yes. I missed non-persistant FS's, like /tmp, in my list... whether or not news persistance is an issue for you is very dependent on how much you would have to re-mirror from your feed, the transport speed over which your feed arrives, and the level of acceptability of dropping local postings prior to the crash into the bit-bucket if they didn't get sent out. Personally, I like log structuring, journalling, and delayed-ordered writes better than I like async as a soloution to the metadata "speed problem". Without such a machanism, it's a trade you have to make as an administrative decision. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 13:08:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11173 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:08:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11159 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id OAA01488; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:08:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199602102108.OAA01488@rover.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: How Cc: current@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:02:21 MST Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:08:25 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk : You mean a hardware failure, right? A single failed metadata write : as a result of a crash before the write completes is *always* : recoverable with fsck. Yes. However, more than a single failed write was happening... : A hardware failure will either transparently forward the failed : sector, or if bad sector forwarding is being handled in software, : the BAD144 layer will cause the soft bad block map to be updated : and, again, the failed write will be remapped. The drive was lying to FreeBSD somehow. The sectors appeared to write correctly, but they were in fact unchanged or "random" for reasons unknown. As far as FreeBSD was concerned, it was dealing with a disk that was perfect. The disk drive, on the other hand, had other notions... It is entirely possible that FreeBSD 2.0R doesn't handle this sort of thing correctly. I've not delved enough to know for sure. I just know that I had a disk go bad and the corruption in the file system was rather large... Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 13:57:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13265 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu (halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.159]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13259 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu; (5.65/1.1.8.2/19Aug95-0530PM) id AA12462; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:56:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:56:41 -0500 From: "Garrett A. Wollman" Message-Id: <9602102156.AA12462@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> To: Warner Losh Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: <199602100336.UAA24921@rover.village.org> References: <199602100336.UAA24921@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk < said: > I'm not sure what the exact interoperability status is. To date I've > just usered our version to access machines that are running our > version. I've heard conflicting things about eBones vs KerberosIV. I have not had any interoperability difficulty between FreeBSD's eBones and real, honest-to-God MIT Kerberos v4. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | Shashish is simple, it's discreet, it's brief. ... wollman@lcs.mit.edu | Shashish is the bonding of hearts in spite of distance. Opinions not those of| It is a bond more powerful than absence. We like people MIT, LCS, ANA, or NSA| who like Shashish. - Claude McKenzie + Florent Vollant From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 13:57:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13294 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13285 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA04800; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:56:24 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602102156.NAA04800@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:56:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <23417.823939098@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 9, 96 11:58:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Loud sigh. > > And I suppose both of you feel that seat belts, and those who wear > them, are old fuddy-duddy throw-backs to the age of the horse and > buggy. "We don't support the idea of seat belts," says Terry Lambert. > "Furthermore, we've eliminated the steering wheel and break pedal, > replacing them with an advanced full voice command system. Sure, it > often takes a couple of minutes to get it to pay attention to your > screams of ``AIGH! STOP! STOP!!!'' but progress is worth such > sacrifices." no, its the other way around.. YOU are saying: But some people inthe past LIKED driving with no seat belts.. they HAVE to be optional! I'm saying, "Seat belts are to be mandatory" but if you didn't like them I suggest the following methods to achieve the same feel. Then YOU are saying But I am used to not having to DO THEM UP! and I'm saying.. "Get used to it" julian > > :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 14:29:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14494 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14489 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA16857; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:26:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602102226.PAA16857@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: How To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:26:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602102108.OAA01488@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Feb 10, 96 02:08:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > : A hardware failure will either transparently forward the failed > : sector, or if bad sector forwarding is being handled in software, > : the BAD144 layer will cause the soft bad block map to be updated > : and, again, the failed write will be remapped. > > The drive was lying to FreeBSD somehow. The sectors appeared to write > correctly, but they were in fact unchanged or "random" for reasons > unknown. As far as FreeBSD was concerned, it was dealing with a disk > that was perfect. The disk drive, on the other hand, had other > notions... It is entirely possible that FreeBSD 2.0R doesn't handle > this sort of thing correctly. I've not delved enough to know for > sure. I just know that I had a disk go bad and the corruption in the > file system was rather large... Bad144 is off by default. Make sure (using the scsi(8) command) that you are using SCSI bad sector forwarding if you have not explicitly enabled Bad144. Probably you want to be running at least 2.0.5 or 2.1 if you are using a non-SCSI disk without hardware sector sparing, and no way to turn it on (the scsi(8) command can only be used on SCSI devices 8-)). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 14:32:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA14637 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14628 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA16871; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:27:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602102227.PAA16871@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:27:50 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, phk@critter.tfs.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602102156.NAA04800@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Feb 10, 96 01:56:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > And I suppose both of you feel that seat belts, and those who wear > > them, are old fuddy-duddy throw-backs to the age of the horse and > > buggy. "We don't support the idea of seat belts," says Terry Lambert. > > "Furthermore, we've eliminated the steering wheel and break pedal, > > replacing them with an advanced full voice command system. Sure, it > > often takes a couple of minutes to get it to pay attention to your > > screams of ``AIGH! STOP! STOP!!!'' but progress is worth such > > sacrifices." > no, its the other way around.. > > YOU are saying: > But some people inthe past LIKED driving with no seat belts.. > they HAVE to be optional! > I'm saying, "Seat belts are to be mandatory" but if you didn't like them > I suggest the following methods to achieve the same feel. > Then YOU are saying But I am used to not having to DO THEM UP! > and I'm saying.. "Get used to it" Banjo music rings out across the Bayou... it's DUELING ANALOGOIES! Burt Reynolds! Duck! Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 15:32:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA17997 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@wa3ymh.TransSys.COM [144.202.42.42]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17991 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa3ymh.transsys.com (#6@localhost.TransSys.COM [127.0.0.1]) by wa3ymh.transsys.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09404; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:32:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199602102332.SAA09404@wa3ymh.transsys.com> To: "Garrett A. Wollman" cc: Warner Losh , current@freebsd.org From: "Louis A. Mamakos" Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:56:41 EST." <9602102156.AA12462@halloran-eldar.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:32:12 -0500 Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > < said: > > > I'm not sure what the exact interoperability status is. To date I've > > just usered our version to access machines that are running our > > version. I've heard conflicting things about eBones vs KerberosIV. > > I have not had any interoperability difficulty between FreeBSD's > eBones and real, honest-to-God MIT Kerberos v4. Nor have I had any interoperability problems between FreeBSD's eBones (both 2.1R and now 2.2-960130-SNAP) and the Cynus "version" of Kerberos. Works great. louie From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:29:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA24409 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA24400 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:29:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA29145; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:27:21 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:08:16 MST." <199602101908.MAA16261@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:27:21 -0800 Message-ID: <29143.823998441@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I see no philosophical difference from one administrative override > that modifies the default kernel and another that modifies the > same file, but operates on different data. Neither do I, but no proposal so far has covered a mechanism which would make the maintainance of this data automatic. In the case of dset, it's one line which *we* added, and most users don't even _know_ or care about dset, they just know their UserConfig changes are automagically saved somehow, which is how it should be. Implement a mechanism as user-transparent as dset for /dev persistance and I'll more than happily shut up about this. Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:42:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25084 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25078 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA17071; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:38:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602110038.RAA17071@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:38:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <29143.823998441@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 10, 96 04:27:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Implement a mechanism as user-transparent as dset for /dev persistance > and I'll more than happily shut up about this. Man mtree. Integrate the rc.shitdown patches. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:46:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25224 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25219 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA17106; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:41:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602110041.RAA17106@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: terry@safetynet.net (Terry Lambert) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:41:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, julian@ref.tfs.com, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602110038.RAA17071@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 10, 96 05:38:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Implement a mechanism as user-transparent as dset for /dev persistance > > and I'll more than happily shut up about this. > > Man mtree. > > Integrate the rc.shitdown patches. Freudian slip. Sorry. rc.shutdown. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:52:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25607 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25594 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05129; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:04 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199602110052.QAA05129@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <29143.823998441@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 10, 96 04:27:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I put it to you that security of devices is such an important thing that you don't want persistance of device ownerships I think that device ownerships should be set upaccording to a STATED POLICY on the matter. A hacker who manages to change the ownership od a device should not find his change still in place after a reboot. All automatic methods I can think of do not differntiate between a malicious or legitimate cahnging of permissions information. A POLICY method can take into account new devices where persistance methods can not handle a device that does not yet exist. I think that having entries for devices not yet present is one of the things I'm trying to get away from... batteries nearly dead.. going offline soon. julian > > I see no philosophical difference from one administrative override > > that modifies the default kernel and another that modifies the > > same file, but operates on different data. > > Neither do I, but no proposal so far has covered a mechanism which > would make the maintainance of this data automatic. In the case of > dset, it's one line which *we* added, and most users don't even _know_ > or care about dset, they just know their UserConfig changes are > automagically saved somehow, which is how it should be. > > Implement a mechanism as user-transparent as dset for /dev persistance > and I'll more than happily shut up about this. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:52:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25625 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25603 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA23461 ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:52:43 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id BAA11138 ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:52:43 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id BAA03764; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:28:05 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602110028.BAA03764@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: How To: wscott@ichips.intel.com (Wayne Scott) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:28:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, coredump@onyx.nervosa.com, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602101921.LAA12306@ichips.intel.com> from Wayne Scott at "Feb 10, 96 11:21:15 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1630 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL5 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Wayne Scott said: > I have crashed Linux systems many many times and have not noticed a > real problem recovering. Am I just lucky? I run several filesystems here async. My FreeBSD has crashed several times and I haven't lost a file. Async is very useful for operations like "cvs update". I know it is a risk but the gain so far is really worth it. But I admit that a working LFS would be very nice... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Sun Feb 4 03:11:17 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 16:53:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25676 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25622 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id BAA23457 ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:52:41 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id BAA11135 ; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:52:42 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id BAA03743; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:21:59 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602110021.BAA03743@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:21:59 +0100 (MET) Cc: mark@grondar.za, dima@FreeBSD.org, ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602101759.KAA00992@rover.village.org> from Warner Losh at "Feb 10, 96 10:59:15 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1630 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL5 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Warner Losh said: > I have heard that different kerberoses use different port numbers and > that the encryption isn't completely standardized. The problem I have with Kerberos is that it does not -- to my knowledge -- encrypt everything from a telnet session. So trafic from any X11 program you start on the other side will not be encrypted. SSH does it _automatically_. When you think about it, if you were looking for a reason to use it over Kerberos, you just got it. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #5: Sun Feb 4 03:11:17 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 17:38:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27402 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27394 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA29633; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:37:16 -0800 To: Julian Elischer cc: terry@lambert.org, KentH@HNS.St-Louis.Mo.US, current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FS PATCHES: THE NEXT GENERATION In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:52:03 PST." <199602110052.QAA05129@ref.tfs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:37:15 -0800 Message-ID: <29631.824002635@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I put it to you that security of devices is such an important thing > that you don't want persistance of device ownerships I put it to you that security of devices is such an important thing that you definitely want persistance of device ownerships. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 17:48:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27837 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27831 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA02467; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:48:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199602110148.SAA02467@rover.village.org> To: Ollivier Robert Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Cc: mark@grondar.za, dima@FreeBSD.org, ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:21:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:48:17 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : The problem I have with Kerberos is that it does not -- to my knowledge -- : encrypt everything from a telnet session. So trafic from any X11 program : you start on the other side will not be encrypted. Kerberos encrypts *EVERYTHING* from a telnet session (at least an rlogin session). However, you are correct that there is no X proxie that participates in the encryption. : SSH does it _automatically_. When you think about it, if you were looking : for a reason to use it over Kerberos, you just got it. For those things that SSH does, yes. There is an X server proxies that offers encryption. That is a good feature of ssh. The X protocol isn't secure at all... I've not played with the ssh X server proxie at this time. However, ssh won't encrypt things like NFS traffic, mud traffic, etc. So there are some limitations to its realms. For example, there is no ssh enryption for FTP sessions at this time, while there is for Kerberos. So there is a balance there. Warner From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 18:45:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03088 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:45:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03083 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05429; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:43:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602110243.SAA05429@precipice.shockwave.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Warner Losh Cc: Ollivier Robert , mark@grondar.za, dima@freebsd.org, ache@astral.msk.su, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:48:17 MST." <199602110148.SAA02467@rover.village.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: application/pgp; format=mime; x-action=signclear; x-originator=81B2A779 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:43:18 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I really don't want to get into a ssh vs kerberos war, we can certainly run both of them. Rather, I'd just like to point out: ssh is good for peer-to-peer secure communications kerberos is good for intra-organization communications Each have their benefits and shortcomings. I'd like to see someone extend K4 so that it is truely usable in inter-organization applications, but as far as I'm concerned, waving the banner for Kerberos is beating a dead horse. Kerberos was killed by MIT because of their inability to move forward with a "product." Whether this was their fault directly or indirectly is outside of the scope of this discussion. Kerberos will not be a viable commercial solution for our encryption needs, and when the time comes to say good bye to it, we should plan to do so. Face it, we're really lacking a good secure authenticated system that does both. If I was feeling paranoid, I'd blame the goverenment, but the real blame lies with all of us who haven't considered it a priority. We need good cryptography standards (!) that work in real-world applications. Paul -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMR1XxWtaZ42Bsqd5AQFl6gP/akdhiorTGOKHmHLhpNlUbI3cwX7qAKCG aJJX15+/WOIM5GgTVVnI+8eQITTYJs9dT17byrFKcyddH0/kz54Wgouzl1xcnCOD e0uCZgZMhyxDF7lvp2iTWoXpGOaJEk2RADB9MyQ46mh7nnk6rKQkWXY37YR5lvRM XEDJ8ybOTW4= =uzkH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 18:48:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03173 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03160 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id TAA02717; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:47:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199602110247.TAA02717@rover.village.org> To: Paul Traina Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Cc: current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:43:18 PST Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:47:19 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- : I really don't want to get into a ssh vs kerberos war, we can certainly : run both of them. Rather, I'd just like to point out: :-) : ssh is good for peer-to-peer secure communications : : kerberos is good for intra-organization communications This is a good summary. While you can do inter-organizational communications with kerberos, it is a little painful :-( Warner -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBMR1Yrtxynu/2qPVhAQH1gAP/QV5QZ7jGJ7LqIW3EEWDRKqlAq8QdVx1z Cl7V7W5GiKz5+rsB3PYGJFEdAKbo6DGksZzs5fY4vCwukoUFrgn08lPPg1uxg2UH a+7nJKl8cyrG/+mmIx79rZ0A1nPPGNcOinRwB94mn8Uj5sia+AM2fSWbxZeouqgB 2ZD9ejNKZK4= =c9ro -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 18:59:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03716 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dima@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA03710 Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:59:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602110259.SAA03710@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? To: mark@grondar.za (Mark Murray) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:59:43 -0800 (PST) Cc: dima@FreeBSD.ORG, imp@village.org, ache@astral.msk.su, current@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602100744.JAA27983@grumble.grondar.za> from "Mark Murray" at Feb 10, 96 09:44:50 am From: dima@FreeBSD.ORG (Dima Ruban) X-Class: Fast Organization: HackerDome X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Mark Murray writes: > > > > We're running the Cygnus Kerberos, so I can't comment on ebones. > > > Looks like the same stuff... > > > > Is eBones compatible with KerberosIV? I mean, I have kerberos on > > some of my computers, and I've heard encryption (or something else) isn't > > compatible beetween kerberos and ebones. So, basically the question is: > > will I be able to use eBones/kerberos encryption if I go from > > kerberos machine to eBones server? > > A couple of years ago when Geoff Rehmet and others ported Kerberos/eBones > it was tested against a known good Kerberos system. > > I suppose now is the time to see if it still good. The DES library > used in freeBSD has been around for a while and is well respected, > even to the extent of being used in Kerberos5. (This is Eric Young's > DES library.) let's try it ... > > M > -- > Mark Murray > 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa > +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 > Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key > -- dima From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 19:05:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA04061 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:05:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from clem.systemsix.com (clem.systemsix.com [198.99.86.131]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04054 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clem.systemsix.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA14820 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:04:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199602110304.UAA14820@clem.systemsix.com> X-Authentication-Warning: clem.systemsix.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 From: Steve Passe To: current@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP experiences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:04:57 -0700 Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi, I previously said: >I just saw something disturbing last nite. I found that I can >"rsh {any of several 2.1.0-R machines}" from the new 2.2-SNAP >but if I "rsh {2.2-SNAP} from one of the 2.1-R machines it >always hangs. For example: > >2.1-REL % rsh 2.2-SNAP ls > >will do the 'ls', showing me everything in the 2.2-SNAP directory, but will >then be hung, even '^c' won't die, have to kiil from another term. I can >reproduce this 100% of the time, always the one direction only. Just did a sup of 'sys' and rebuilt the kernel, problem went away! -- Steve Passe | powered by smp@csn.net | FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 22:02:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA14852 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:02:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA14847 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:02:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from newzetor.clinet.fi (root@newzetor.clinet.fi [194.100.0.11]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id IAA15444; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:02:20 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by newzetor.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id IAA02168; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:02:20 +0200 (EET) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:02:20 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199602110602.IAA02168@newzetor.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Warner Losh's message of 10 Feb 1996 07:45:28 +0200 Subject: Re: How Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland References: <199602100543.WAA25958@rover.village.org> Sender: owner-current@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <199602100543.WAA25958@rover.village.org> Warner Losh writes: : For anything other than initial install, copying, archiving, async : is a bad bet. For those particular operations, it's a big win. It can also be good on a partition devoted solely to news that is allowed to be newfs on data corruption as well... With current full-feed news flow and innd, there will soon be no option other than battery-backed-up scsi controller or async mounts. I have survived with async mounts for news disks since last summer, and the damn thing crashes often enough that I can say you can make it without serious data loss, as long as you run fsck -y for news disks on boot :-) -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi mobile +358-40-5519679 work +358-0-4375360 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-current Sat Feb 10 22:43:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-current Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA15924 for current-outgoing; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from grumble.grondar.za (root@grumble.grondar.za [196.7.18.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA15919 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grumble.grondar.za (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01915; Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:42:26 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199602110642.IAA01915@grumble.grondar.za> X-Authentication-Warning: grumble.grondar.za: Host mark@localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Ollivier Robert cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Kerberos @ freebsd.org? Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:42:25 +0200 From: Mark Murray Sender: owner-current@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Ollivier Robert wrote: > The problem I have with Kerberos is that it does not -- to my knowledge -- > encrypt everything from a telnet session. So trafic from any X11 program > you start on the other side will not be encrypted. Not true. the -x switch turns on encryption. > SSH does it _automatically_. When you think about it, if you were looking > for a reason to use it over Kerberos, you just got it. Sure - with secure telnet you have to _ask_ for encryption. Its not difficcult to put into appropriate startup files. M -- Mark Murray 46 Harvey Rd, Claremont, Cape Town 7700, South Africa +27 21 61-3768 GMT+0200 Finger mark@grondar.za for PGP key