From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 02:05:15 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08102 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 02:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE (Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.166.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA08096; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 02:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x14.mi.uni-koeln.de ([134.95.219.124]) by Octopussy.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE with SMTP id AA08037 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 5 Oct 1997 11:05:06 +0200 Received: (from se@localhost) by x14.mi.uni-koeln.de (8.8.7/8.6.9) id JAA00365; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 09:35:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: " Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 09:35:05 +0200 From: Stefan Esser To: Satoshi Asami Cc: mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, Stefan Esser Subject: Re: chipset IDs for mobile PCs References: <199710010321.UAA01822@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84 In-Reply-To: <199710010321.UAA01822@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU>; from Satoshi Asami on Tue, Sep 30, 1997 at 08:21:27PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 1997-09-30 20:21 -0700, Satoshi Asami wrote: > The patch is relative to RELENG_2_2. I got the datasheets from > > http://developer.intel.com/design/pcisets/datashts/ > > ------- > Index: pcisupport.c > =================================================================== > RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/sys/pci/pcisupport.c,v > retrieving revision 1.40.2.4 > diff -u -r1.40.2.4 pcisupport.c > --- pcisupport.c 1997/07/18 19:48:22 1.40.2.4 > +++ pcisupport.c 1997/10/01 03:07:31 > @@ -136,6 +136,10 @@ > return ("Intel 82371FB PCI-ISA bridge"); > case 0x12308086: > return ("Intel 82371FB IDE interface"); > + case 0x12348086: > + return ("Intel 82371MX mobile PCI I/O IDE accelerator (MPIIX)"); > + case 0x12358086: > + return ("Intel 82437MX mobile PCI cache memory controller"); > case 0x12508086: > return ("Intel 82439"); > case 0x04061039: > ------- > > The 82371 is referred to as both "MX" and "MB" in their datasheets. I > went with the majority (for one, it is called "MX" in 82371's own > datasheet). The chip sets often contain parts that are connected to the PCI bus, and others that are not and can't decode PCI configuration cycles (e.g. buffer or driver chips). I didn't have time to check this on Intel's web site, for these particular devices, though. > Also, Intel's official name for the 82371MX is "Mobile PCI I/O IDE > Xcelerator (MPIIX)". I thought we can avoid that kind of ugliness. Well, it just seems to fit on one line in the boot message log. If Intel wants the chip to be known by that name ... > BTW, this is the output of boot -v after the patch. Thanks! Looks fine ... ** Could you please apply the patch to -current (and, if permitted ** by the release-engineer, to 2.2.5) ? This is one of the least dangerous patches I can imagine, and I think it should be allowed in ... Sorry, I'm overloaded at my job, currently, and did not have time to commit it before the code freeze. > pcibus_setup(1): mode 1 addr port (0x0cf8) is 0x80000050 > pcibus_setup(1a): mode1res=0x80000000 (0x80000000) > pcibus_check: device 0 is there (id=12358086) > Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: > configuration mode 1 allows 32 devices. > chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 > chip1 rev 3 on pci0:1 > vga0 rev 211 int a irq ?? on pci0:3 > pcic0 rev 226 int a irq ?? on pci0:19 Regards, STefan From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 13:25:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07585 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07577 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28117 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710052025.NAA28117@austin.polstra.com> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710040744.RAA00300@word.smith.net.au> References: <199710040744.RAA00300@word.smith.net.au> Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 13:25:21 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Thanks for all the good ideas, everybody. Here's where things stand at present. First of all, [vent on] due to the morons at Computer Discount Whorehouse, my laptop still has only 8 MB of RAM. I ordered an additional 32 MB with the machine on September 11, and they shipped me the wrong memory. (They had mislabeled the box.) So far they have not gotten their act together enough to put the correct memory in my hands, despite numerous phone calls and despite the fact that I paid extra for 2nd day air shipping with the original order. [vent off] The point being, with only 8 MB, any large X11 application is almost unusable. So my options are limited for my upcoming trip. I tried ml + IMAP, and it doesn't look too bad. I don't have Motif currently, but I was able to get a Linux binary running under FreeBSD's emulation. I can't really try it out properly because of the limited RAM, but my first impression is that it sure uses a lot of screen real estate. Also, certain updates via IMAP (such as deleting messages) don't seem to be recognized by exmh on the local machine. I don't know yet whether that's an IMAP limitation or an exmh limitation. I'm building xfmail now so that I can try that. I also played around some more with running exmh on the local machine and displaying via PPP on the laptop's X server. I was hoping that the new LBX (low-bandwidth X) proxy in XFree86-3.1.1 would make it tolerable. It didn't really seem to make any noticeable difference for this application. Also, it took exmh all of 3 minutes to find the first bug in lbxproxy, causing me to abandon that idea. A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid the need for it. I haven't looked into any of the commercial IMAP clients yet. Overall, I'm pretty disappointed at the state of the art for this mode of operation. I had hoped the world would be further along by now. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 13:53:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08826 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08802 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09414; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:51:33 +0200 (CEST) To: John Polstra cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 1997 13:25:21 PDT." <199710052025.NAA28117@austin.polstra.com> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 22:51:33 +0200 Message-ID: <9412.876084693@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199710052025.NAA28117@austin.polstra.com>, John Polstra writes: >A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, >thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between >machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid >the need for it. What I do: All my mail is forwarded to hub.freebsd.org I run a shell script when I want to gather my email: picks it up at hub using ssh feeds it into mh using "inc -file" filters it various ways I use the raw mh commands for reading/composing/replying. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 16:08:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15234 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:08:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from twinlark.arctic.org (twinlark.arctic.org [204.62.130.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15225 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org) Received: (qmail 15276 invoked by uid 500); 5 Oct 1997 23:09:06 -0000 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 16:09:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Gaudet To: John Polstra cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710052025.NAA28117@austin.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, John Polstra wrote: > Overall, I'm pretty disappointed at the state of the art for this mode > of operation. I had hoped the world would be further along by now. What I think I'd like to see is an IMAP 4 disconnected mode proxy server. Let it talk IMAP 4 with another IMAP 4 server to cache the mail locally and do all the other fun disconnected mode stuff. Then whatever method your local mail program wants to use is fine, i.e. it could use IMAP locally or direct mailbox access (the proxy needs to store metadata somewhere other than the mailbox itself unlike the UW imap daemon). This should make it easier to find a good client and also run things offline. So if anyone is looking for a project ... Dean From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 23:13:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07056 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:13:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07049 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:13:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10761 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA28776; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710060613.AAA28776@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Recent changes to -current X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I just made some changes to the pccard code that might affect people. 1) The IRQ allocated for the controller is now pulled from the 'top' of the IRQ list, vs. the bottom (like Win95). This means that if it used IRQ 3 in the past, it may now use IRQ 15 with the new code. There were enough people who had problems with the built-in hardware living at IRQ 3 that FreeBSD didn't know about that I felt a change was good. 2) Code to make the modem 'speaker' code work on CIRRUS logic chips. It didn't seem to negatively affect my box (which has the chip), but neither did I check to see if it did anything with my modem differently. 3) A new sysctl was added 'machdep.pccard.apm_pccard_resume', which defaults to 0. This is basically the PAO code that some have assured me makes their systems suspend/resume with cards work 100% flawless. Since it's new, it's disabled by default, but can be easily enabled. I'd like people to try it out (especially those who have complained lately that suspend/resume doesn't work with cards inserted), and see if it makes things better. Note also the other option that PHK converted to a sysctl (which I copied to I could easily "syctl" the new option above). You may want to set 'machdep.pccard.pcic_resume_reset' to 1 as well to see if that makes any differences one way or the other. These changes only affect laptops current -current for now, although if I get a chance I may build some patches against 2.2 and send them to the list for review. Finally, just because I did this recently doesn't mean I'm going to do anymore. I got tired of people feeling like they *had* to install the PAO patches, when in fact 95% of the functionality already exists in FreeBSD. There are still some important patches in PAO (most notably driver changes), but I don't have the time nor desire to wade through them and merge them into FreeBSD. (Although, I may do the stuff to support my SCSI CD at some point in the near future ;) Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Sun Oct 5 23:27:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07507 for mobile-outgoing; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:27:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07501 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:27:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA10823; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA28789; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710060627.AAA28789@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Nate Williams Cc: mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Recent changes to -current In-Reply-To: <199710060613.AAA28776@rocky.mt.sri.com> References: <199710060613.AAA28776@rocky.mt.sri.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams writes: > I just made some changes to the pccard code that might affect people. > > 1) The IRQ allocated for the controller is now pulled from the 'top' of > the IRQ list, vs. the bottom (like Win95). This wasn't as obvious as I intended. I meant to imply that the *new* functionality is now like Win95, not that Win95 uses the bottom IRQ. We are now more 'Win95' like w/regards to PCIC controller interrupt. Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 00:49:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11472 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:49:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11466 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:49:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA00729; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:16:22 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710060746.RAA00729@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Polstra cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 05 Oct 1997 13:25:21 MST." <199710052025.NAA28117@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:16:21 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, > thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between > machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid > the need for it. I don't understand this. It is *the* obvious answer to the problem; all your mail is in one place, and it's always with you. You don't have to worry at all about getting "at" your mail, or any of the agony you describe. > Overall, I'm pretty disappointed at the state of the art for this mode > of operation. I had hoped the world would be further along by now. http://www.hotmail.com. 8) mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 03:42:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19730 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:42:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from twinlark.arctic.org (twinlark.arctic.org [204.62.130.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA19725 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:42:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org) Received: (qmail 2671 invoked by uid 500); 6 Oct 1997 10:42:34 -0000 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:42:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Gaudet To: Mike Smith cc: John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710060746.RAA00729@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, > > thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between > > machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid > > the need for it. > > I don't understand this. It is *the* obvious answer to the problem; > all your mail is in one place, and it's always with you. You don't > have to worry at all about getting "at" your mail, or any of the agony > you describe. Uh, no it is not "the obvious answer", it's the wrong answer. What you're saying is that if I forget my laptop at home and go to work (which is a 40 minute commute) then, well, I can't read email all day long. Sorry, not an acceptable answer. There's a reason I keep my mail on a server that's internet accessible. > > Overall, I'm pretty disappointed at the state of the art for this mode > > of operation. I had hoped the world would be further along by now. > > http://www.hotmail.com. I think part of what John wants is both online and offline capabilities. Like what POP crap gives you if you always carry your laptop around, but without the need for always carrying your laptop around. This is what IMAP 4 disconnected mode is all about. Except nobody has implemented it on the client side yet (or rather, not enough clients have implemented it yet). Dean From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 03:53:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA20279 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:53:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA20272 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:53:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01499; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:20:17 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710061050.UAA01499@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dean Gaudet cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 03:42:34 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 20:20:16 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, > > > thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between > > > machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid > > > the need for it. > > > > I don't understand this. It is *the* obvious answer to the problem; > > all your mail is in one place, and it's always with you. You don't > > have to worry at all about getting "at" your mail, or any of the agony > > you describe. > > Uh, no it is not "the obvious answer", it's the wrong answer. What you're > saying is that if I forget my laptop at home and go to work (which is a 40 > minute commute) then, well, I can't read email all day long. Sorry, not > an acceptable answer. There's a reason I keep my mail on a server that's > internet accessible. This is like saying that if you leave you keys home, you can't get into the office. The proposed solution works, it is not idiot-proof; if you want that, Hotmail is the answer. Disregarding that, using APOP/IMAP/SMTP ETRN via fetchmail provides a very usable solution that doesn't depend on any sort of bandwidth between you and your server(s), is completely portable and allows you to work offline. I spent quite a bit of time researching this myself, and while there are plenty of "should do it" solutions, this is the only one that worked for me. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 03:58:10 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA20512 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:58:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from twinlark.arctic.org (twinlark.arctic.org [204.62.130.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA20501 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:58:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org) Received: (qmail 3003 invoked by uid 500); 6 Oct 1997 10:58:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 03:58:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Gaudet To: Mike Smith cc: John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710061050.UAA01499@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > > A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, > > > > thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between > > > > machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid > > > > the need for it. > > > > > > I don't understand this. It is *the* obvious answer to the problem; > > > all your mail is in one place, and it's always with you. You don't > > > have to worry at all about getting "at" your mail, or any of the agony > > > you describe. > > > > Uh, no it is not "the obvious answer", it's the wrong answer. What you're > > saying is that if I forget my laptop at home and go to work (which is a 40 > > minute commute) then, well, I can't read email all day long. Sorry, not > > an acceptable answer. There's a reason I keep my mail on a server that's > > internet accessible. > > This is like saying that if you leave you keys home, you can't get into > the office. The proposed solution works, it is not idiot-proof; if you > want that, Hotmail is the answer. I don't think you understand the other requirements of *disconnected mail reading*. Hotmail is not an answer -- all hotmail does is give you access to some subset of your mail from "anywhere". What is needed here is both the ability to read mail from anywhere while online, and the ability to read and manipulate cached subset of your mail while offline. Go read about IMAP 4 disconnected mode if you haven't yet. > Disregarding that, using APOP/IMAP/SMTP ETRN via fetchmail provides a > very usable solution that doesn't depend on any sort of bandwidth > between you and your server(s), is completely portable and allows you to > work offline. I spent quite a bit of time researching this myself, and > while there are plenty of "should do it" solutions, this is the only one > that worked for me. This assumes that you want to have all your mail have one canonical destination, a destination which travels with you ... rather than a destination that's locked in a machine room somewhere getting regular backups and less likely to be stolen or lost. Dean From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 04:10:30 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21013 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 04:10:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21004 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 04:10:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA01562; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:37:06 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710061107.UAA01562@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dean Gaudet cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 03:58:31 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 20:37:04 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > > Uh, no it is not "the obvious answer", it's the wrong answer. What you're > > > saying is that if I forget my laptop at home and go to work (which is a 40 > > > minute commute) then, well, I can't read email all day long. Sorry, not > > > an acceptable answer. There's a reason I keep my mail on a server that's > > > internet accessible. > > > > This is like saying that if you leave you keys home, you can't get into > > the office. The proposed solution works, it is not idiot-proof; if you > > want that, Hotmail is the answer. > > I don't think you understand the other requirements of *disconnected mail > reading*. Hotmail is not an answer -- all hotmail does is give you access > to some subset of your mail from "anywhere". This is exactly what you were describing above. You specifically claim that you avoid taking your mail with you by leaving it on an "internet accessible" server. Hotmail is "internet accessible", and in fact is *more* accessible than you propose because you can access it with any browser, rather than requring some nonexistent client software. Given that I have been advocating a specific form of "disconnected mail reading", I would have to say that I have a pretty damn good idea of what it's all about. 8) > What is needed here is both > the ability to read mail from anywhere while online, and the ability to > read and manipulate cached subset of your mail while offline. Go read > about IMAP 4 disconnected mode if you haven't yet. I'll read about it in the feature set of a mailer, if and when it's implemented. Until then, a vapourware standard is of no use to me. > > Disregarding that, using APOP/IMAP/SMTP ETRN via fetchmail provides a > > very usable solution that doesn't depend on any sort of bandwidth > > between you and your server(s), is completely portable and allows you to > > work offline. > > This assumes that you want to have all your mail have one canonical > destination, a destination which travels with you ... rather than a > destination that's locked in a machine room somewhere getting regular > backups and less likely to be stolen or lost. This sounds like a pretty weak argument to me; if you're doing work on your laptop then you're going to be backing it up anyway. If I follow your reasoning the only use a laptop is going to get is as a terminal, because otherwise it'd have to have data on it that couldn't be immediately backed up. Note that there's nothing stopping you keeping a log of all the mail that passes through your pickup servers as well, if you're really concerned about backing things up. I did this while I was testing fetchmail to ensure I didn't lose anything. Alternatively, back your laptop up remotely via whatever network connection you have at a given time. I find that mailing a compressed tarball of my folder directory to a safe server is an effective and simple approach. If you can receive mail in order for a delta to occur to your local mail set, then you can send it to back it up. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 08:43:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05788 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:43:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05780 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:43:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13981; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00240; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710061520.JAA00240@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Subject: Re: current on notebook (as of Oct 3) In-Reply-To: <19971006044227.01139@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> References: <19971006044227.01139@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk [ Moved to -mobile ] > well.. I'm running into some interesting problems... every other reboot > just before it prints the type of pcic chip it does (the PC-Card Intel line): > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > fault virtual address = 0x80000008 I was seeing these last night until I updated *all* of my code. I'm not sure what caused it, but it happenned all the time with my new code changes. I suspect something in the interrupt code, but I never got a chance to verify it since the box is now solid with everything updated. > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf023dfd0 ... > > after the panic, the next boot will complete successfully... this > is actually beyond the end of the kernel... the last bit of nm /kernel > | sort is: > f023119c B _tcpstat > f023128c B _end > ffc00000 A _APTmap > fffff000 A _APTD You're in the stack. Try updating the sources again and see if that helps things. Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 09:07:22 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07610 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from zero-gravity.netlab.london.sco.com (zero-gravity.netlab.london.sco.com [150.126.252.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA07603 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dme@sco.com) Received: (from dme@localhost) by zero-gravity.netlab.london.sco.com (8.8.5/8.8.4) id RAA04853; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 17:05:38 +0100 To: Mike Smith Cc: John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access References: <199710060746.RAA00729@word.smith.net.au> X-Emacs: Emacs 20.2, MULE 3.0 (MOMIJINOGA) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI MIME-Edit 0.88 "Tsurugi") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: dave edmondson Date: 06 Oct 1997 17:05:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: Mike Smith's message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 17:16:21 +0930" Message-ID: Lines: 31 X-Mailer: Quassia Gnus v0.12/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mike Smith writes: : > A couple of people suggested _always_ reading mail on the laptop, : > thereby skirting the problem of switching back and forth between : > machines. That's an intriguing idea, but I'm still hoping to avoid : > the need for it. : : I don't understand this. It is *the* obvious answer to the problem; : all your mail is in one place, and it's always with you. You don't : have to worry at all about getting "at" your mail, or any of the agony : you describe. whilst i agree that keeping everything on the laptop is a fine way to go (it's what i do), sometimes i'd rather it wasn't like that. the laptop in question (toshiba tecra) can't come close to even a relatively cheap desktop machine in terms of: - processor power, - io performance, - display size and capability. i can run emacs (as i use gnus) on the laptop with the display pointed at my desktop system, but i still suffer some performance problems. using the laptop as a display (which is what i normally do) means that i'm limited to 1024x768, which is tight after 1280x1024 (even with a small font on a 21" monitor 1024x768 still feels cramped, and 16bit colour is hard to get working right). all in all, i have to agree with mike that `on the laptop' is the way to go (for me at least), but i'm not truly happy with it. i've got high hopes for gnus new `agent' mode, but it's not there yet. -- --- Dave Edmondson, Architect, interNet Engineering, The Santa Cruz Operation. From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 09:25:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08821 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from hydrogen.nike.efn.org (resnet.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08797 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:24:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gurney_j@efn.org) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by hydrogen.nike.efn.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13068; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19971006092448.15900@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:24:48 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Nate Williams Cc: mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: current on notebook (as of Oct 3) References: <19971006044227.01139@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710061520.JAA00240@rocky.mt.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.69 In-Reply-To: <199710061520.JAA00240@rocky.mt.sri.com>; from Nate Williams on Mon, Oct 06, 1997 at 09:20:27AM -0600 Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney Organization: Cu Networking X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2.1-RELEASE i386 X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 EC EF F8 AE ED A7 31 96 7A 22 B3 D8 56 36 F4 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: http://resnet.uoregon.edu/~gurney_j/ Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams scribbled this message on Oct 6: > [ Moved to -mobile ] > > > well.. I'm running into some interesting problems... every other reboot > > just before it prints the type of pcic chip it does (the PC-Card Intel line): > > > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > > fault virtual address = 0x80000008 > > I was seeing these last night until I updated *all* of my code. I'm not > sure what caused it, but it happenned all the time with my new code > changes. I suspect something in the interrupt code, but I never got a > chance to verify it since the box is now solid with everything updated. ok... well.. the wierd part is this is from a tree of Oct 3rd... so it's before your changes that you did yesterday... I was also having problems with nfs hanging... but I completed the install by hand... I'll see what I can do tonight... > > fault code = supervisor read, page not present > > instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf023dfd0 > ... > > > > after the panic, the next boot will complete successfully... this > > is actually beyond the end of the kernel... the last bit of nm /kernel > > | sort is: > > f023119c B _tcpstat > > f023128c B _end > > ffc00000 A _APTmap > > fffff000 A _APTD > > You're in the stack. I figured this.. but felt it might be useful... :) > Try updating the sources again and see if that helps things. will do tonight... ttyl... -- John-Mark Gurney Modem/FAX: +1 541 683 6954 Cu Networking Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 10:32:35 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13522 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:32:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13516 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:32:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14817; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA00767; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710061732.LAA00767@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Nate Williams , mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: current on notebook (as of Oct 3) In-Reply-To: <19971006092448.15900@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> References: <19971006044227.01139@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> <199710061520.JAA00240@rocky.mt.sri.com> <19971006092448.15900@hydrogen.nike.efn.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [ Moved to -mobile ] > > > > > well.. I'm running into some interesting problems... every other reboot > > > just before it prints the type of pcic chip it does (the PC-Card Intel line): > > > > > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > > > fault virtual address = 0x80000008 > > > > I was seeing these last night until I updated *all* of my code. I'm not > > sure what caused it, but it happenned all the time with my new code > > changes. I suspect something in the interrupt code, but I never got a > > chance to verify it since the box is now solid with everything updated. > > ok... well.. the wierd part is this is from a tree of Oct 3rd... so > it's before your changes that you did yesterday... I was also having > problems with nfs hanging... but I completed the install by hand... This is typical of the types of problems I was seeing as well. Even after I backed out my pccard changes I still had problems, but I thought it may have had something to do with the changes I made in kern_intr to the printing (whY???), so I updated /sys/kern. Unfortunately, it made lots of changes I hadn't expected, so I updated my entire sys tree and re-built everything, which made all of the problems go away. I brought back my changes and things were still OK, so I'm calling it some sort of brokeness in the tree that is now fixed. Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 12:00:55 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19893 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:00:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from twinlark.arctic.org (twinlark.arctic.org [204.62.130.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19884 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:00:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org) Received: (qmail 18052 invoked by uid 500); 6 Oct 1997 19:01:14 -0000 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:01:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Gaudet To: Mike Smith cc: John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710061107.UAA01562@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > This is exactly what you were describing above. You specifically > claim that you avoid taking your mail with you by leaving it on an > "internet accessible" server. Hotmail is "internet accessible", and in > fact is *more* accessible than you propose because you can access it > with any browser, rather than requring some nonexistent client software. I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. > Given that I have been advocating a specific form of "disconnected mail > reading", I would have to say that I have a pretty damn good idea of > what it's all about. 8) Your disconnected mail reading has no method of synchronizing your actions on your laptop copy of your mailbox with your server. This is essential to me, as I have no desire to read the same messages twice on all the mailing lists I read. I also like to have the "replied" annotations attached to mail I have replied to. > > What is needed here is both > > the ability to read mail from anywhere while online, and the ability to > > read and manipulate cached subset of your mail while offline. Go read > > about IMAP 4 disconnected mode if you haven't yet. > > I'll read about it in the feature set of a mailer, if and when it's > implemented. Until then, a vapourware standard is of no use to me. There are clients, just not for FreeBSD, or Linux. See www.imap.org. Dean From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 15:17:11 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03590 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from pinot.eecs.harvard.edu (pinot.eecs.harvard.edu [140.247.60.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA03563 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:16:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karp@eecs.harvard.edu) Received: (from karp@localhost) by pinot.eecs.harvard.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA21955 for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:16:18 -0400 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:16:18 -0400 From: Brad Karp Message-Id: <199710062216.SAA21955@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: wd interrupt timeouts w/2.2.2, PAO, IBM 380 Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm running 2.2.2-RELEASE with the latest PAO from makefile.org on a new IBM 380. I can find almost no mention of experience reports with the 380 on the web and in mailing list archives, probably because this particular model is so new. At any rate, I sporadically get messages like the following on the console: wd0: interrupt timeout: wd0: status 58 error 0 wd0: interrupt timeout: wd0: status 58 error 1 When these messages occur, the system hangs while it retries a disk operation. The retries frequently go on for up to two minutes. After a restart, I often go through long periods without these messages. But once they start, they occur quite frequently. What's more, even if I reboot, they continue to occur frequently after rebooting. While it sounds implausible, I find that leaving the laptop powered off (not sleeping, but fully off) for > 30 minutes returns it to a state where the timeout messages vanish for a while. I suspect an interaction between APM and the wd driver, naturally...it appears the wd driver is intolerant of disk spin-downs. At Poul Henning-Kemp's suggestion, I folded in the following code from 3.0-current into my 2.2.2 wd.c:wdcommand() : if (du->cfg_flags & WDOPT_SLEEPHACK) { /* OK, so the APM bios has put the disk into SLEEP mode, * how can we tell ? Uhm, we can't. There is no * standardized way of finding out, and the only way to * wake it up is to reset it. Bummer. * * All the many and varied versions of the IDE/ATA standard * explicitly tells us not to look at these registers if * the disk is in SLEEP mode. Well, too bad really, we * have to find out if it's in sleep mode before we can * avoid reading the registers. * * I have reason to belive that most disks will return * either 0xff or 0x00 in all but the status register * when in SLEEP mode, but I have yet to see one return * 0x00, so we don't check for that yet. * * The check for WDCS_BUSY is for the case where the * bios spins up the disk for us, but doesn't initialize * it correctly /phk */ if(inb(wdc + wd_precomp) + inb(wdc + wd_cyl_lo) + inb(wdc + wd_cyl_hi) + inb(wdc + wd_sdh) + inb(wdc + wd_sector) + inb(wdc + wd_seccnt) == 6 * 0xff) { if (bootverbose) printf("wd(%d,%d): disk aSLEEP\n", du->dk_ctrlr, du->dk_unit); wdunwedge(du); } else if(inb(wdc + wd_status) == WDCS_BUSY) { if (bootverbose) printf("wd(%d,%d): disk is BUSY\n", du->dk_ctrlr, du->dk_unit); wdunwedge(du); } } I also built a kernel with flag 0x4000 for my laptop's disk, so that SLEEPHACK is active (see below). I still get the timeouts and console messages with this code added, though. :-( Relevant lines from my kernel config file: options LAPTOP options APM_PCCARD_RESUME options PCIC_RESUME_RESET options "APM_NOSUSPEND_IMMEDIATE=3" controller wdc0 at isa? port "IO_WD1" bio irq 14 vector wdintr disk wd0 at wdc0 drive 0 flags 0x4000 device apm0 at isa? #options APM_BROKEN_STATCLOCK When I boot, I'm told the following about my disk and the wd driver: wdc0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7 irq 14 on isa wdc0: unit 0 (wd0): , sleep-hack wd0: 1033MB (2116800 sectors), 2100 cyls, 16 heads, 63 S/T, 512 B/S So the kernel is definitely turning on the sleep-specific code. My question is: has anyone out there seen similar behavior on any model of laptop? If so, what did you do to correct it? The machine is more or less unusable when it goes away for minutes at a time in disk retries... Many thanks, -Brad, karp@eecs.harvard.edu From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 15:59:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06596 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06589 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:59:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17072; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA02479; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710062259.QAA02479@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brad Karp Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: wd interrupt timeouts w/2.2.2, PAO, IBM 380 In-Reply-To: <199710062216.SAA21955@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> References: <199710062216.SAA21955@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm running 2.2.2-RELEASE with the latest PAO from makefile.org on a > new IBM 380. I can find almost no mention of experience reports with > the 380 on the web and in mailing list archives, probably because this > particular model is so new. > > At any rate, I sporadically get messages like the following on the console: > > wd0: interrupt timeout: > wd0: status 58 error 0 > wd0: interrupt timeout: > wd0: status 58 error 1 Interesting.... I just got this on my box last night, but it never gave up after a few minutes, but continued for about 15 minutes when I gave up and powered it down. > After a restart, I often go through long periods without these messages. > But once they start, they occur quite frequently. What's more, even if I > reboot, they continue to occur frequently after rebooting. Mine occur on *one* partition of my drive. I think it's related to a block going bad on the disk. > I suspect an interaction between APM and the wd driver, naturally...it > appears the wd driver is intolerant of disk spin-downs. APM isn't even enabled on my box now, so I don't think it's APM. > My question is: has anyone out there seen similar behavior on any model > of laptop? If so, what did you do to correct it? The machine is more or > less unusable when it goes away for minutes at a time in disk retries... I'm trying to figure out how to salvage my disk right now, so I don't have any solutions. But, I have seen similar behavior. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Mon Oct 6 22:05:59 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26286 for mobile-outgoing; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:05:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA26281 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:05:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05687; Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710070505.WAA05687@austin.polstra.com> To: Dean Gaudet cc: Mike Smith , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 03:42:34 PDT." Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 22:05:41 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Here I am replying to this thread from my laptop, using (sigh) raw mh commands and slogin. :-( > I think part of what John wants is both online and offline > capabilities. Like what POP crap gives you if you always carry your > laptop around, but without the need for always carrying your laptop > around. Yes, that's part of what I want. More generally, I want to be able to _fully_ access my mail from any of several machines -- meaning, read messages, delete messages, move them between folders, reply to them, etc. That's the IMAP promise, but I think Mike is right that it's not a reality yet at least under FreeBSD. >From here it sounds like you and Mike aren't really in such violent disagreement. You are describing the ideal solution (which is what I really want), and Mike is describing the best solution he's found that's available today. John -- John Polstra jdp@polstra.com John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth From owner-freebsd-mobile Tue Oct 7 06:50:26 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA26820 for mobile-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:50:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA26797 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 06:50:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joelman@world.std.com) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id JAA01729; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mercury40 (ppp0a023.std.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18694; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:50:05 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19971007043824.009266b0@world.std.com> X-Sender: joelman@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 04:38:24 -0400 To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org From: Joel Gwynn Subject: pccard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I'm trying to configure my PCMCIA modem for dial-up PPP. I've set pccard_enable="YES" (should pccard_ifconfig be "YES"?), and network_interfaces'"lo0 lp0 sio1", and ifconfig_sio1="inet 10.0.2.15 netmask 255.255.255.0" (that's the addres my ISP gives me). When I boot up, the pccard driver seems to take a while to load, and by this time, I get the message "ifconfig: interface sio1 does not exist", then later, the pccard driver loads on sio1. I know this, because I can use cu to dial out just fine. 1. Is there a way to pause /etc/rc until the pccard driver is loaded? 2. How can I pipe the output of /etc/rc to a file so I can examine it later? Thanks. Joel Gwynn From owner-freebsd-mobile Tue Oct 7 08:51:01 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05352 for mobile-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:51:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from phoenix.volant.org (phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.193]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA05347 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:50:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from patl@phoenix.volant.org) From: patl@phoenix.volant.org Received: from asimov.phoenix.volant.org [205.179.79.65] by phoenix.volant.org with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 0xIbuO-0000Ae-00; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:50:52 -0700 Received: from localhost by asimov.phoenix.volant.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA13592; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:50:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: patl@phoenix.volant.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access To: Dean Gaudet cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > ... > > > What is needed here is both > > > the ability to read mail from anywhere while online, and the ability to > > > read and manipulate cached subset of your mail while offline. Go read > > > about IMAP 4 disconnected mode if you haven't yet. > > > > I'll read about it in the feature set of a mailer, if and when it's > > implemented. Until then, a vapourware standard is of no use to me. > > There are clients, just not for FreeBSD, or Linux. See www.imap.org. There -ARE- clients that run on FreeBSD and Linux. Not as many as for M$ Win* or Mac; but they are there. Pine provides a tty interface, ML provides a reasonably nice GUI. Netscape Communicator (Messenger) provides the all-singing all-dancing polished GUI, with encryption and digital signature support. ... -Pat From owner-freebsd-mobile Tue Oct 7 21:08:42 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16315 for mobile-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:08:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from austin.polstra.com (austin.polstra.com [206.213.73.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16308 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jdp@austin.polstra.com) Received: from austin.polstra.com (jdp@localhost) by austin.polstra.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09652; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710080407.VAA09652@austin.polstra.com> To: patl@phoenix.volant.org cc: Dean Gaudet , Mike Smith , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 1997 08:50:41 PDT." Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:07:06 -0700 From: John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > There -ARE- clients that run on FreeBSD and Linux. Not as many > as for M$ Win* or Mac; but they are there. Pine provides a tty > interface, ML provides a reasonably nice GUI. Netscape Communicator > (Messenger) provides the all-singing all-dancing polished GUI, with > encryption and digital signature support. ... Also xfmail, which looks quite nice so far. John From owner-freebsd-mobile Tue Oct 7 21:54:19 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18571 for mobile-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:54:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18562 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 21:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00791; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:21:23 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710080451.OAA00791@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Joel Gwynn cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pccard In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 1997 04:38:24 -0400." <3.0.1.32.19971007043824.009266b0@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 14:21:23 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to configure my PCMCIA modem for dial-up PPP. I've set > pccard_enable="YES" (should pccard_ifconfig be "YES"?), and No. > network_interfaces'"lo0 lp0 sio1", and sio1 is not a network interface. It's a serial port. > then later, the pccard driver loads on sio1. I know this, because I can > use cu to dial out just fine. > > 1. Is there a way to pause /etc/rc until the pccard driver is loaded? No. > 2. How can I pipe the output of /etc/rc to a file so I can examine it later? No. You should be using the 'ppp' or 'pppd' programs to dial your ISP. Read the relevant manpage, and ask on -questions if you are having trouble with this. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Tue Oct 7 22:08:03 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19383 for mobile-outgoing; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:08:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19314 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:07:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00868; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:33:00 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710080503.OAA00868@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: John Polstra cc: patl@phoenix.volant.org, Dean Gaudet , Mike Smith , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 07 Oct 1997 21:07:06 MST." <199710080407.VAA09652@austin.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 14:33:00 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There -ARE- clients that run on FreeBSD and Linux. Not as many > > as for M$ Win* or Mac; but they are there. Pine provides a tty > > interface, ML provides a reasonably nice GUI. Netscape Communicator > > (Messenger) provides the all-singing all-dancing polished GUI, with > > encryption and digital signature support. ... > > Also xfmail, which looks quite nice so far. My biggest gripes with xfmail were speed (it's laboriously slow), lack of a decent inbuilt editor (exmh's isn't much better actually), poor -ish MIME support, and the fact that it used to explode occasionally. Aside from that, it's a very powerful tool. I particularly liked the inbuilt filtering rules. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 00:03:25 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26424 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:03:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from DonaldBurr.dyn.ml.org (dburr@pm0-12.sba1.avtel.net [207.71.218.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26413 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:03:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dburr@DonaldBurr.dyn.ml.org) Received: (from dburr@localhost) by DonaldBurr.dyn.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA08038; Tue, 7 Oct 1997 23:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199710080503.OAA00868@word.smith.net.au> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 23:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Starfleet Command From: Donald Burr To: Mike Smith Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, Dean Gaudet , patl@phoenix.volant.org, John Polstra Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- My secret spy satellite informs me that on 08-Oct-97, Mike Smith wrote: >> > There -ARE- clients that run on FreeBSD and Linux. Not as many >> > as for M$ Win* or Mac; but they are there. Pine provides a tty >> > interface, ML provides a reasonably nice GUI. Netscape Communicator >> > (Messenger) provides the all-singing all-dancing polished GUI, with >> > encryption and digital signature support. ... >> >> Also xfmail, which looks quite nice so far. > >My biggest gripes with xfmail were speed (it's laboriously slow), lack >of a decent inbuilt editor (exmh's isn't much better actually), poor >-ish MIME support, and the fact that it used to explode occasionally. > >Aside from that, it's a very powerful tool. I particularly liked the >inbuilt filtering rules. I understand that Gennady is hard at work on the enxt version, and that those issues (and many more) will be addressed by it. You mihgt want to subscribe tot he xfmail mailnig list (fairly low traffic) to read about it, and maybe chip in with some suggestions. Send a "subscribe xfmail" message to majordomo@burka.netvision.net.il - --- Donald Burr - Ask me for my PGP key | PGP: Your WWW HomePage: http://DonaldBurr.base.org/ ICQ #1347455 | right to Address: P.O. Box 91212, Santa Barbara, CA 93190-1212 | 'Net privacy. Phone: (805) 957-9666 FAX: (800) 492-5954 | USE IT. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNDsum/jpixuAwagxAQGOxQP/YD2uxtm6qpUS83Ct1Sfm5HURp81+0mPt 0BRoH4JrLLIIQ2jCghbKC67A4s/K0FvLHsm1UIVda6JSGLumLs/ra6YW7SA34b47 8WMW4gYqvYen5hFwNXgDjj5iS6OzfGHTcU804FcluRhvET8LDOpxMYSc49k0u7Vm totDN7u/9Z8= =qIaY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 00:48:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29904 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:48:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (vh1.gsoft.com.au [203.38.152.122]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29891 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 00:48:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.gsoft.com.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01435; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:14:07 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710080744.RAA01435@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Dean Gaudet cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:01:14 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:14:06 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > This is exactly what you were describing above. You specifically > > claim that you avoid taking your mail with you by leaving it on an > > "internet accessible" server. Hotmail is "internet accessible", and in > > fact is *more* accessible than you propose because you can access it > > with any browser, rather than requring some nonexistent client software. > > I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can > use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. Sure, but this is not "more" accessible, this is less. > > Given that I have been advocating a specific form of "disconnected mail > > reading", I would have to say that I have a pretty damn good idea of > > what it's all about. 8) > > Your disconnected mail reading has no method of synchronizing your actions > on your laptop copy of your mailbox with your server. This is essential > to me, as I have no desire to read the same messages twice on all the > mailing lists I read. I also like to have the "replied" annotations > attached to mail I have replied to. Bollocks. All my mail is in one place, on the laptop. That's about as synchronised as it gets. > > I'll read about it in the feature set of a mailer, if and when it's > > implemented. Until then, a vapourware standard is of no use to me. > > There are clients, just not for FreeBSD, or Linux. See www.imap.org. See above. When it's available, I'll care. Until then, I'll use something that works. The only advantage that "discordian IMAP" offers is keeping your mail on a set of servers. To me that's not really very significant. By contrast fetchmail is implemented and works, and that matters a great deal. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 02:03:13 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA05054 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:03:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from twinlark.arctic.org (twinlark.arctic.org [204.62.130.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA05041 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:03:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org) Received: (qmail 1096 invoked by uid 500); 8 Oct 1997 09:03:34 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Gaudet To: Mike Smith cc: John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access In-Reply-To: <199710080744.RAA01435@word.smith.net.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > > I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can > > use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. > > Sure, but this is not "more" accessible, this is less. Uh I can get to it from wherever I can get on the net, even if I don't have my laptop handy. I can't do offline stuff. But you have to keep your laptop handy to do any mail. > > Your disconnected mail reading has no method of synchronizing your actions > > on your laptop copy of your mailbox with your server. This is essential > > to me, as I have no desire to read the same messages twice on all the > > mailing lists I read. I also like to have the "replied" annotations > > attached to mail I have replied to. > > Bollocks. All my mail is in one place, on the laptop. That's about as > synchronised as it gets. I know all *your* mail is in one place, but you suggested to me that I could keep mine in two places to "solve" my problem, and I'm saying that that's not a solution. As John said, I'm describing an ideal, you're describing a reality that's good enough for you but not for everyone. There are supposedly IMAP 4 disconnected clients for solaris x86, if there's an emulation mode you might be able to use them. I haven't bothered trying. I kind of like having source code to my main tools. -- Dean Gaudet, Performance Analyst, Transmeta Corp. From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 02:30:58 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA06743 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:30:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA06738 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 02:30:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id TAA19430; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:00:36 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19971008190036.51387@lemis.com> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:00:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Dean Gaudet Cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access References: <199710080744.RAA01435@word.smith.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: ; from Dean Gaudet on Wed, Oct 08, 1997 at 02:03:34AM -0700 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Oct 08, 1997 at 02:03:34AM -0700, Dean Gaudet wrote: > > > On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Mike Smith wrote: > >>> I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can >>> use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. >> >> Sure, but this is not "more" accessible, this is less. > > Uh I can get to it from wherever I can get on the net, even if I don't > have my laptop handy. I can't do offline stuff. But you have to keep > your laptop handy to do any mail. I suppose this is very much a lifestyle question. IMO, the idea of a laptop is to have something to take around with you in order to connect to the net. I don't really see why I would ever need to access the net a different way. Of course, if you've left your laptop at home, you can have it connected to the net, so that's not a problem either: you just telnet in to your laptop. In practice, I find that the best solution for me is to have my mail go to my main system at home, and when I need it on my laptop, I download it. It's worked pretty well for over a year now. Greg From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 16:22:20 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21925 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:22:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from pinot.eecs.harvard.edu (pinot.eecs.harvard.edu [140.247.60.65]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA21915 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:22:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from karp@eecs.harvard.edu) Received: (from karp@localhost) by pinot.eecs.harvard.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA24833 for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:21:38 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 19:21:38 -0400 From: Brad Karp Message-Id: <199710082321.TAA24833@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: if_ep.c on latest PAO Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Does anyone have PAO-based, mobile-support diffs for if_ep.c that target a version _later_ than that found in 2.2.2-RELEASE? The if_ep.c I wind up with when applying the latest PAO patches to 2.2.2- RELEASE is rather broken with respect to promiscuous mode; specifically, it passes every packet going by on the wire to the inbound IP path, rather than noticing that the destination Ethernet address on most packets going by doesn't merit attention by the local host. This occurs with my 3C589D, with a fairly vanilla PAO kernel. I noticed it because with IP forwarding on in the kernel, it was generating ICMP redirects for all packets going by, because the interface was constantly in promiscuous mode (even in regular operation, no tcpdump, mrouted, or multicast apps running) and the driver was passing all packets to the inbound IP path. Surely, I'm not the first to notice this...though I've scanned the mailing list archives with no leads. A glance at 3.0-current if_ep.c reveals that it at least does something different with respect to promiscuous operation and filtering packets received when in promiscuous mode. Has anyone taken a newer if_ep.c and merged it with the PAO PCMCIA support? Thanks, -Brad, karp@eecs.harvard.edu From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 17:11:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24712 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:11:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24699 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 17:11:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05508; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:11:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA13588; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710090011.SAA13588@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Brad Karp Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: if_ep.c on latest PAO In-Reply-To: <199710082321.TAA24833@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> References: <199710082321.TAA24833@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Does anyone have PAO-based, mobile-support diffs for if_ep.c that target a > version _later_ than that found in 2.2.2-RELEASE? The stock if_ep should work fine. It has for almost 2 years on every version of 3C589 I've used. > Has anyone taken a newer if_ep.c and merged it with the PAO PCMCIA support? I wasn't aware that PAO patched if_ep. If so, I'm not sure why. Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Oct 8 18:19:31 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA28360 for mobile-outgoing; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from coconut.itojun.org (root@coconut.itojun.org [210.160.95.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA28353 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 1997 18:19:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from itojun@itojun.org) From: itojun@itojun.org Received: from localhost (itojun@localhost.itojun.org [127.0.0.1]) by coconut.itojun.org (8.8.5/3.6Wbeta6) with ESMTP id KAA05303; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:16:46 +0900 (JST) To: Brad Karp cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: karp's message of Wed, 08 Oct 1997 19:21:38 -0400. <199710082321.TAA24833@pinot.eecs.harvard.edu> X-Template-Reply-To: itojun@itojun.org X-Template-Return-Receipt-To: itojun@itojun.org X-PGP-Fingerprint: F8 24 B4 2C 8C 98 57 FD 90 5F B4 60 79 54 16 E2 Subject: Re: if_ep.c on latest PAO Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 10:16:46 +0900 Message-ID: <5299.876359806@coconut.itojun.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >The if_ep.c I wind up with when applying the latest PAO patches to 2.2.2- >RELEASE is rather broken with respect to promiscuous mode; specifically, >it passes every packet going by on the wire to the inbound IP path, rather >than noticing that the destination Ethernet address on most packets going >by doesn't merit attention by the local host. I believe this is because 3com ethernet cards have no multicast filtering hardware. >A glance at 3.0-current if_ep.c reveals that it at least does something >different with respect to promiscuous operation and filtering packets received >when in promiscuous mode. I generated diff from 2.2.2-RELEASE and 3.0-current, there was no difference. (am I looking into something different?) (long line splitted into two) http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/i386/isa/if_ep.c.diff ?r1=1.53.2.1%3ARELENG_2_2_2_RELEASE&tr1=1.1&r2=1.60%3AHEAD&tr2=1.60&f=c itojun From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 07:55:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04825 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:55:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from chuck.schiele-ct.de (chuck.schiele-ct.de [193.141.27.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04814 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:55:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from br@schiele-ct.de) Received: from schiele-ct.de (localhost.schiele-ct.de [127.0.0.1]) by chuck.schiele-ct.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26658 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:58:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <199710091458.QAA26658@chuck.schiele-ct.de> To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: recommended PCMCIA modem card? Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:58:38 +0200 From: Bernd Rosauer Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm happily running FreeBSD on a TP560. Now I'm looking for some PCMCIA modem card. Yes, I had a look at the hardware compatibility list, but I wonder if there is some modem card which people could recommend. A low price isn't my first priority. I need 33.6 bps, and I expect painless operation. I thought a US Robotics Sporster or Courier would make a good choice but I saw some warning that troubles had been reported. So, is there any PCMCIA modem card *you* could recommend to me? I appreciate any hint. Thanks for your support! -Bernd From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 08:42:41 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07514 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:42:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07493 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:42:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00728; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:08:43 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710091538.BAA00728@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: Bernd Rosauer cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: recommended PCMCIA modem card? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:58:38 +0200." <199710091458.QAA26658@chuck.schiele-ct.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 01:08:40 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm happily running FreeBSD on a TP560. Now I'm looking for some > PCMCIA modem card. Yes, I had a look at the hardware compatibility > list, but I wonder if there is some modem card which people could > recommend. A low price isn't my first priority. I need 33.6 bps, > and I expect painless operation. I thought a US Robotics Sporster > or Courier would make a good choice but I saw some warning that > troubles had been reported. So, is there any PCMCIA modem card > *you* could recommend to me? I appreciate any hint. Prettymuch any plain PCCARD modem card will work fine; the current crop of USR cards work well, as well as most of the cheaper units around. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 08:48:39 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07875 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from sag.space.lockheed.com (sag.space.lockheed.com [192.68.162.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA07868 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:48:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from handy@sag.space.lockheed.com) Received: from localhost by sag.space.lockheed.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Nov95-0423PM) id AA10262; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:48:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:48:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brian N. Handy" To: Bernd Rosauer Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: recommended PCMCIA modem card? In-Reply-To: <199710091458.QAA26658@chuck.schiele-ct.de> Message-Id: X-Files: The truth is out there Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm happily running FreeBSD on a TP560. Now I'm looking for some >PCMCIA modem card. I tried to get a USR Sportster and ended up with a Megahertz, since USR bought out Megahertz. At any rate, I'm pretty happy with mine, no obvious problems. Mike Smith seems to be the hardware expert on laptops though. (At least he talks a good story. :-) I'd hold off and see what he has to say as well. Good luck, Brian From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 08:52:18 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA08069 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:52:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (ala-ca8-03.ix.netcom.com [207.93.141.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA08058 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:52:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from asami@vader.cs.berkeley.edu) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.8.7/8.6.9) id IAA08789; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 08:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199710091552.IAA08789@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: br@schiele-ct.de CC: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199710091458.QAA26658@chuck.schiele-ct.de> (message from Bernd Rosauer on Thu, 09 Oct 1997 16:58:38 +0200) Subject: Re: recommended PCMCIA modem card? From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk * I'm happily running FreeBSD on a TP560. Now I'm looking for some * PCMCIA modem card. Yes, I had a look at the hardware compatibility * list, but I wonder if there is some modem card which people could * recommend. A low price isn't my first priority. I need 33.6 bps, * and I expect painless operation. I thought a US Robotics Sporster * or Courier would make a good choice but I saw some warning that * troubles had been reported. So, is there any PCMCIA modem card * *you* could recommend to me? I appreciate any hint. I haven't used the modem much yet (haven't gone on a trip since I bought the laptop :) but my USR Megahertz 56k (XJ1560) appears to work fine in both Lose95 and FreeBSD. (Yes it works in Lose95...a miracle.) However, this one has the "X-jack", which is not a very good idea. Get one without an X-jack if you can, or you can (usually) only use one PC-card at a time. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 09:40:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11068 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from word.smith.net.au (word.smith.net.au [202.0.75.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11062 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:40:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mike@word.smith.net.au) Received: from word.smith.net.au (localhost.smith.net.au [127.0.0.1]) by word.smith.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01010; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 02:07:05 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199710091637.CAA01010@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0zeta 7/24/97 To: "Brian N. Handy" cc: Bernd Rosauer , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: recommended PCMCIA modem card? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 09 Oct 1997 08:48:25 MST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 02:06:59 +0930 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Mike Smith seems to be the hardware expert on laptops though. (At least > he talks a good story. :-) I'd hold off and see what he has to say as > well. Heh. I *wish* I was the expert; certainly I try, but as Tatsumi-san will attest getting enough information in any one place to see much more than a sliver of the picture is very difficult. On the modem card topic, to flip the picture 180deg., I am not aware of any plain-modem card in current circulation that does *not* work as expected with either vanilla 2.2.x or 3.x FreeBSD, or with the PAO extensions. mike From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 10:56:08 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16026 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:56:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (SRI-56K-FR.mt.net [206.127.65.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16001 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:55:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: from rocky.mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11692; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.mt.sri.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA16221; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:55:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199710091755.LAA16221@rocky.mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Mike Smith Cc: "Brian N. Handy" , Bernd Rosauer , freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Subject: Re: recommended PCMCIA modem card? In-Reply-To: <199710091637.CAA01010@word.smith.net.au> References: <199710091637.CAA01010@word.smith.net.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.29 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On the modem card topic, to flip the picture 180deg., I am not aware of > any plain-modem card in current circulation that does *not* work as > expected with either vanilla 2.2.x or 3.x FreeBSD, or with the PAO > extensions. Actually, some don't work w/out hacks to sio.c to disable a couple of the tests. However, it appears that it also depends on the laptop whether or not the tests need to be disabled. Nate From owner-freebsd-mobile Thu Oct 9 17:57:36 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11577 for mobile-outgoing; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from barrichello.ucr.edu (root@mail.cs.ucr.edu [138.23.169.107]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11563 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from korpe@cs.ucr.edu) Received: from hill.ucr.edu (korpe@hill.ucr.edu [138.23.169.109]) by barrichello.ucr.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04013 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:32 -0700 From: Ibrahim Korpeoglu Received: (from korpe@localhost) by hill.ucr.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA09938 for freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199710100057.RAA09938@hill.ucr.edu> Subject: PAO question!. To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I am trying to install freebsd 2.2.2 to a laptop together with PAO PCMCIA support. I have the PAO boot floppy for 2.2.2. Do I still follow the steps in 2.2.2-RELESEASE/README file? (like compiling the manager daemon and utilitiy files etc.)? Which steps are necessary? I installed freebsd with PAO floppy, but I am not sure if already installed the manager daemon etc. thanks a lot, Ibrahim. korpe@cs.ucr.edu From owner-freebsd-mobile Fri Oct 10 13:16:06 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA05214 for mobile-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:16:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from grayling.erg.sri.com (grayling.erg.sri.com [128.18.4.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA05143; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:15:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from templin@erg.sri.com) Received: by grayling.erg.sri.com (8.6.12/2.7davy) id NAA01520; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:15:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199710102015.NAA01520@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:15:15 -0700 From: "Fred L. Templin" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Cc: templin@erg.sri.com Subject: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm using FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE with PAO-970616, and I'm writing a new device driver for a PCMCIA card which is not currently supported in either of these packages. The card is strictly a memory-mapped device, and has no I/O mapping or interrupt capability. The card is programmed by writing command(s) and data into the card's common memory space, then setting a bit in the function configuration registers in attribute memory space to tell the card to begin, then polling another bit in the registers to ascertain when the card is done executing the command(s). So, in short, I need to be able to use 'uiomove()' to copy data/commands into/out of the card's common memory space from an application using the open, close read, write, and ioctl semantics and I need to be able to switch between attribute memory space and ccommon memory space. But, in order to do this I need to manipulate the per-slot window mappings which get set up when the card is found by pccardd and which are managed by the slot controller code in sys/pccard/{pccard,pcic}.c and my fear is that by doing so I would risk a system crash if a pccard event caused the slot controller code to yank it's resource allocations out from under my driver while it was accessing them. The only other driver I've seen in the FreeBSD source pool which seems to want to play with 'uiomove()' and window mappings like this is sys/i386/isa/scc.c, but the driver is rife with comments of the form: "bad things will happen if you pull the card out while the system is running" which makes me nervous about following their model. So my first question is - how can I write a driver for a memory-mapped PCMCIA card which can disassociate itself from the slot controller driver when the device is probed, yet still allow me to manipulate the per-slot window mappings? My second question has to do with the way slot controller chips are probed. From looking at 'pcic_probe()' in sys/pccard/pcic.c, it looks for all the world to me that only a single slot controller chip is supported (i.e., there are no unit numbers, and there is only one statically-allocated "slot_ctrl" struct). Is it true that FreeBSD currently only supports one slot controller chip (which controls two slots), or am I missing something? (I'm hoping the folks working on -current might have some knowledge on this...) Thanks much, Fred templin@erg.sri.com From owner-freebsd-mobile Fri Oct 10 14:34:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11444 for mobile-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:34:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [195.8.129.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11357; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:33:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost.cybercity.dk [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05727; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:32:18 +0200 (CEST) To: "Fred L. Templin" cc: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:15:15 PDT." <199710102015.NAA01520@grayling.erg.sri.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:32:17 +0200 Message-ID: <5725.876519137@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I'm using FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE with PAO-970616, and I'm writing a >new device driver for a PCMCIA card which is not currently supported in >either of these packages. The card is strictly a memory-mapped device, >and has no I/O mapping or interrupt capability. The card is programmed >by writing command(s) and data into the card's common memory space, then >setting a bit in the function configuration registers in attribute memory >space to tell the card to begin, then polling another bit in the registers >to ascertain when the card is done executing the command(s). Sounds like a linear flash card, doesn't it :-) Go for it, I have an Intel 2+ 8M card here, but have never had til to make a driver. >The only other driver I've seen in the FreeBSD source pool which seems >to want to play with 'uiomove()' and window mappings like this is >sys/i386/isa/scc.c, but the driver is rife with comments of the form: >"bad things will happen if you pull the card out while the system is >running" This you can write above any instruction which accesses a pccard. With the "surprise style" (as opposed to "VCR-style") eject mechanism the hardware may be gone without notice from one instruction to the next. Nothing you can do about it. >My second question has to do with the way slot controller chips are >probed. From looking at 'pcic_probe()' in sys/pccard/pcic.c, it looks >for all the world to me that only a single slot controller chip is >supported (i.e., there are no unit numbers, and there is only one >statically-allocated "slot_ctrl" struct). Is it true that FreeBSD >currently only supports one slot controller chip (which controls two >slots), or am I missing something? (I'm hoping the folks working on >-current might have some knowledge on this...) Well, the overall framework does support it, the actual code may not. I should be a minor thing to get it fixed, give a little bit of hardware and time. I don't actually know if we have the necessary callbacks into the pcic driver to modify the memory windows on the fly. If not we will need to add them. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." From owner-freebsd-mobile Fri Oct 10 16:22:54 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA17311 for mobile-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:22:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA17306 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:22:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id IAA07451; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:22:40 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:22:40 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199710102322.IAA07451@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: korpe@cs.ucr.edu Cc: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: PAO question!. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:57:25 -0700 (PDT)". <199710100057.RAA09938@hill.ucr.edu> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In article <199710100057.RAA09938@hill.ucr.edu> korpe@cs.ucr.edu writes: >> I am trying to install freebsd 2.2.2 to a laptop together with PAO >> PCMCIA support. I have the PAO boot floppy for 2.2.2. Do I still follow the >> steps in 2.2.2-RELESEASE/README file? (like compiling >> the manager daemon and utilitiy files etc.)? Which steps >> are necessary? I installed freebsd with PAO floppy, but I am >> not sure if already installed the manager daemon etc. Pls. read, "Documentation -> PC-card" menu in PAO floppy. "Configuration -> PC-card" installs PC-card stuff. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-mobile Fri Oct 10 16:47:21 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA18306 for mobile-outgoing; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:47:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp [131.113.212.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18270; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 16:47:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp (8.8.7/3.6Wbeta6-ntc_mailserver1.03) id IAA07501; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:46:44 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 08:46:44 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <199710102346.IAA07501@afs.ntc.mita.keio.ac.jp> To: templin@erg.sri.com Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org, hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: pccard driver questions (FreeBSD 2.2.2-RELEASE + PAO-970616) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:15:15 -0700". <199710102015.NAA01520@grayling.erg.sri.com> From: hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.20] 1996-12/08(Sun) Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I answer the easier question :-). In article <199710102015.NAA01520@grayling.erg.sri.com> templin@erg.sri.com writes: >> My second question has to do with the way slot controller chips are >> probed. From looking at 'pcic_probe()' in sys/pccard/pcic.c, it looks >> for all the world to me that only a single slot controller chip is >> supported (i.e., there are no unit numbers, and there is only one >> statically-allocated "slot_ctrl" struct). Is it true that FreeBSD >> currently only supports one slot controller chip (which controls two >> slots), or am I missing something? (I'm hoping the folks working on >> -current might have some knowledge on this...) slot_ctrl struct have per-controller parameters in it. Not per-slot parameters. It can controll more than two slots, but it can't controll more than two PC-card controllers. The latest test version (found in ftp://jaz.jp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-jp/PAO/test) have multiple slot_ctrl struct, and it can controll more than two controllers. Original: ---------------------------------------------------------------- static struct slot_ctrl cinfo; ---------------------------------------------------------------- Newer code: ---------------------------------------------------------------- static struct slot_ctrl controller_info[NPCIC]; static struct slot_ctrl *cinfo = controller_info; ---------------------------------------------------------------- One of my laptop machine has one PCI-1130 CardBus bridge that manages two CardBus slots and i82365-compatible PC card controller that manages one PC-card slot, and I can use all three slots under this test code. -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi Network Technology Center Keio University hosokawa@ntc.keio.ac.jp From owner-freebsd-mobile Sat Oct 11 11:18:28 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00958 for mobile-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:18:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from angel.uunet.ca (root@angel.uunet.ca [142.77.1.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00953 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:18:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jsellens@pollux.uunet.ca) Received: from pollux.uunet.ca ([205.150.229.252]) by angel.uunet.ca with ESMTP id <17246-13666>; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:16:59 -0400 Received: (from jsellens@localhost) by pollux.uunet.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA00363; Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 23:22:56 -0400 From: John Sellens Message-Id: <199710110322.XAA00363@pollux.uunet.ca> To: dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org, grog@lemis.com Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access Cc: freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@polstra.com, mike@smith.net.au Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you'll forgive a comment from the peanut gallery, I'll disagree with Greg -- in my situation, my laptop is not just "something to take around with (me) in order to connect to the net" -- it's my working environment. And I'll toss in another vote for the "everything on the laptop" approach. I happen to be doing a non-trivial commute daily, 1.5 hours each way on the inter-city bus. I always carry my briefcase, and I always have my laptop in my briefcase (and the weight difference is enough that it's obvious when it is and is not there). Everything is on my laptop (e.g. all my articles, papers and files, programs, all my mail archives since 1986) including all my incoming and outgoing mail. My mail gets delivered to a server, then I use fetchmail to drag it down to my laptop, so that a broken or stolen laptop doesn't leave my mail sitting in MX record limbo. (I don't have a local news server set up yet, but I'm considering it.) This way, on the bus ride home, I can do anything (except web and ftp), read and send mail in particular. And, of course, I have daily backups (ftp mirroring "pulling" from the laptop to the server, making them incrementatl). And when I am connected to the net, whether at work (ethernet), home (ISDN), or in a hotel (28.8), my interaction is at the same speed (editing, formatting, mailing), it's just the download and upload time that vary. Works for me, but I won't claim that my situation is typical :-) John jsellens@uunet.ca | From grog@lemis.com Wed Oct 8 07:46:13 1997 | Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 05:30:36 -0400 | From: Greg Lehey | To: Dean Gaudet | Cc: Mike Smith , John Polstra , | freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG | Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access | | On Wed, Oct 08, 1997 at 02:03:34AM -0700, Dean Gaudet wrote: | >>> I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can | >>> use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. | >> | >> Sure, but this is not "more" accessible, this is less. | > | > Uh I can get to it from wherever I can get on the net, even if I don't | > have my laptop handy. I can't do offline stuff. But you have to keep | > your laptop handy to do any mail. | | I suppose this is very much a lifestyle question. IMO, the idea of a | laptop is to have something to take around with you in order to | connect to the net. I don't really see why I would ever need to | access the net a different way. Of course, if you've left your laptop | at home, you can have it connected to the net, so that's not a problem | either: you just telnet in to your laptop. | | In practice, I find that the best solution for me is to have my mail | go to my main system at home, and when I need it on my laptop, I | download it. It's worked pretty well for over a year now. | | Greg From owner-freebsd-mobile Sat Oct 11 17:29:24 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18831 for mobile-outgoing; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:29:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-mobile) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (gregl1.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18825 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:29:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA07505; Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:58:56 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19971012095856.17191@lemis.com> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 09:58:56 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: John Sellens Cc: dgaudet-list-freebsd-mobile@arctic.org, freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG, jdp@polstra.com, mike@smith.net.au Subject: Re: Seamless nomadic e-mail access References: <199710110322.XAA00363@pollux.uunet.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199710110322.XAA00363@pollux.uunet.ca>; from John Sellens on Fri, Oct 10, 1997 at 11:22:56PM -0400 Organisation: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8250 Fax: +61-8-8388-8250 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Fight-Spam-Now: http://www.cauce.org Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Oct 10, 1997 at 11:22:56PM -0400, John Sellens wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 08, 1997 at 02:03:34AM -0700, Dean Gaudet wrote: >>>>> I can still read mail on my server or on my laptop. On the server I can >>>>> use whatever client suits me. i.e. telnet and pine. >>>> >>>> Sure, but this is not "more" accessible, this is less. >>> >>> Uh I can get to it from wherever I can get on the net, even if I don't >>> have my laptop handy. I can't do offline stuff. But you have to keep >>> your laptop handy to do any mail. >> >> I suppose this is very much a lifestyle question. IMO, the idea of a >> laptop is to have something to take around with you in order to >> connect to the net. I don't really see why I would ever need to >> access the net a different way. Of course, if you've left your laptop >> at home, you can have it connected to the net, so that's not a problem >> either: you just telnet in to your laptop. >> >> In practice, I find that the best solution for me is to have my mail >> go to my main system at home, and when I need it on my laptop, I >> download it. It's worked pretty well for over a year now. > > If you'll forgive a comment from the peanut gallery, I'll disagree > with Greg -- in my situation, my laptop is not just "something > to take around with (me) in order to connect to the net" -- it's > my working environment. And I'll toss in another vote for the > "everything on the laptop" approach. Sure, that's your way to use the machine. I want as much screen real estate as I can, and when I'm at home, I use a stationary machine with 2x1600x1200. Can't do that with a laptop. But that's not disagreeing with me, you just use it differently. My original point was that Dean was wanting to be able to access the net without his laptop and apparently without any other computer to call his own. > I happen to be doing a non-trivial commute daily, 1.5 hours each > way on the inter-city bus. I always carry my briefcase, and I > always have my laptop in my briefcase (and the weight difference > is enough that it's obvious when it is and is not there). Everything > is on my laptop (e.g. all my articles, papers and files, programs, > all my mail archives since 1986) including all my incoming and > outgoing mail. My mail gets delivered to a server, then I use > fetchmail to drag it down to my laptop, so that a broken or stolen > laptop doesn't leave my mail sitting in MX record limbo. (I don't > have a local news server set up yet, but I'm considering it.) > > This way, on the bus ride home, I can do anything (except web and ftp), > read and send mail in particular. And, of course, I have daily backups > (ftp mirroring "pulling" from the laptop to the server, making them > incrementatl). And when I am connected to the net, whether at work > (ethernet), home (ISDN), or in a hotel (28.8), my interaction is > at the same speed (editing, formatting, mailing), it's just the download > and upload time that vary. > > Works for me, but I won't claim that my situation is typical :-) Well, I run mail offline on my laptop, too, like in planes and obscure hotel rooms. When I get it connected to a net, I just run 'sendmail -q', and it gets sent. Greg