From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Jun 29 07:28:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA24835 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:28:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw-nl1.philips.com (gw-nl1.philips.com [192.68.44.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA24787 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:28:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (localhost.philips.com [127.0.0.1]) by gw-nl1.philips.com with ESMTP id QAA09505 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:28:21 +0200 (MEST) (envelope-from Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com) Received: from hal.mpn.cp.philips.com (hal.mpn.cp.philips.com [130.139.64.195]) by smtprelay-nl1.philips.com (8.8.5/8.6.10-1.2.2m-970826) with SMTP id QAA01632 for ; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:28:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (qmail 29433 invoked by uid 666); 29 Jun 1998 14:26:01 -0000 Message-ID: <19980629162601.A19145@mpn.cp.philips.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 16:26:01 +0200 From: Jos Backus To: Terry Lambert , Nicole Harrington Cc: opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Packet Engines - FreeBSD References: <199806270401.VAA20393@usr04.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.92.10i In-Reply-To: <199806270401.VAA20393@usr04.primenet.com>; from Terry Lambert on Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 04:01:43AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 04:01:43AM +0000, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Yes, however the idea of having 100K+ messages being appended to a > > usenames file just doesn't seem appealing. It is faster to just drop a > > file into a directory. > > The flip side is that it eats a lot of inodes when you uses your FS > as a database. Overall, you will be able to fit more messages on a > disk when you are eating a "from" line overhead instead of 128 bytes > for an inode and an average of fragsize/2 bytes per message. Heh. Inodes are cheap :) Seriously, lockless Maildir delivery makes multiple simultaneous deliveries to the same mailbox possible (true, serialization/locking is still involved but at the kernel level which one would hope to be more efficient than flock() and friends). Also, in the face of crashes, fsck does the cleanup necessary, with very little chance of mailbox corruption at all. Other advantages can be found on the Maildir webpage: http://www.pobox.com/~djb/proto/maildir.html Groetjes, Jos -- Jos Backus _/ _/_/_/ "Reliability means never _/ _/ _/ having to say you're sorry." _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein _/ _/ _/ _/ Jos.Backus@nl.origin-it.com _/_/ _/_/_/ use Std::Disclaimer; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Tue Jun 30 22:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA00822 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:59:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA00815 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:59:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id VAA08241 for advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:58:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:58:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: test123 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA00817 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 1 13:39:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA17876 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:39:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA17871 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:39:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id QAA02505 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:39:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Ill be da*ned Juniper lists FreeBSd as its roots for JUNOS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This was MOST cool! Juniper just announced availability of its JUNOS routing software and they even to my astonishment were very clear in announcing it was using FreeBSD as it's root. Mainly the kernel. I for one was EXTREMELY pleased to see this announced on their pages. Of course the part about ripping out a significant piece of the networking code because it couldnt handle the LARGE ammounts of net traffic juniper says its using their junos for COULD have been left out IMO :-) It's like saying sure we use oranges in our dessert but we scrap the fruit and use just the peel. heh It's a plus none the less. Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 1 20:40:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22539 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:40:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.webspan.net (root@mail.webspan.net [206.154.70.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22532 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from opsys@mail.webspan.net) Received: from orion.webspan.net (orion.webspan.net [206.154.70.5]) by mail.webspan.net (WEBSPAN/970608) with SMTP id XAA29617 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:40:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Open Systems Networking X-Sender: opsys@orion.webspan.net To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ill be da*ned Juniper lists FreeBSd as its roots for JUNOS In-Reply-To: <16005.899344247@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG DOH ok i goofed posting the URL twice now, left it out once, then didnt mail to the list. So here it is: http://www.jnx.com/leadingedge/whitepapers/optimizing-routing-sw.fm.html Chris -- "Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." ===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 -----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security ===================================| http://open-systems.net -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= =BBjp -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 1 21:45:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00638 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00633 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id VAA07814; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Open Systems Networking cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Ill be da*ned Juniper lists FreeBSd as its roots for JUNOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Last time I checked Pluris (www.pluris.com) were using FreeBSD also as their base. I was told however by avg that as their product evolves they might have to switch to a real time OS. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Open Systems Networking wrote: > >DOH ok i goofed posting the URL twice now, left it out once, then didnt >mail to the list. >So here it is: > >http://www.jnx.com/leadingedge/whitepapers/optimizing-routing-sw.fm.html > >Chris > >-- >"Linux... The choice of a GNUtered generation." > >===================================| Open Systems Networking And Consulting. > FreeBSD 2.2.6 is available now! | Phone: 316-326-6800 >-----------------------------------| 1402 N. Washington, Wellington, KS-67152 > FreeBSD: The power to serve! | E-Mail: opsys@open-systems.net > http://www.freebsd.org | Consulting-Network Engineering-Security >===================================| http://open-systems.net > >-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- >Version: 2.6.2 > >mQENAzPemUsAAAEH/06iF0BU8pMtdLJrxp/lLk3vg9QJCHajsd25gYtR8X1Px1Te >gWU0C4EwMh4seDIgK9bzFmjjlZOEgS9zEgia28xDgeluQjuuMyUFJ58MzRlC2ONC >foYIZsFyIqdjEOCBdfhH5bmgB5/+L5bjDK6lNdqD8OAhtC4Xnc1UxAKq3oUgVD/Z >d5UJXU2xm+f08WwGZIUcbGcaonRC/6Z/5o8YpLVBpcFeLtKW5WwGhEMxl9WDZ3Kb >NZH6bx15WiB2Q/gZQib3ZXhe1xEgRP+p6BnvF364I/To9kMduHpJKU97PH3dU7Mv >CXk2NG3rtOgLTEwLyvtBPqLnbx35E0JnZc0k5YkABRO0JU9wZW4gU3lzdGVtcyA8 >b3BzeXNAb3Blbi1zeXN0ZW1zLm5ldD4= >=BBjp >-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Jul 1 22:31:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA05234 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:31:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05229 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA28783; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:31:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807020531.XAA28783@softweyr.com> Subject: Re: Ill be da*ned Juniper lists FreeBSd as its roots for JUNOS From: Wes Peters To: opsys@mail.webspan.net, freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id WAA05230 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My hidden microphone recorded Open Systems Networking (opsys@mail.webspan.net) saying: % This was MOST cool! Juniper just announced availability of its JUNOS % routing software and they even to my astonishment were very clear in % announcing it was using FreeBSD as it's root. Mainly the kernel. % I for one was EXTREMELY pleased to see this announced on their pages. % Of course the part about ripping out a significant piece of the networking % code because it couldnt handle the LARGE ammounts of net traffic juniper % says its using their junos for COULD have been left out IMO :-) You'd be surprised the amount of work it takes to make an industrial- strength router, even from FreeBSD sources. The L3 switches I work on during the day are based on VxWorks, which is based on the 4.2 BSD TCP/IP implementation, but our TCP/IP stack has been hacked on by some very talented engineers for over 4 years to get to the point where it is now. Not to mention the fact that switches work in a very different environment from a "normal" router. ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 19:14:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24232 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:14:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA24222 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id TAA23750 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:14:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: just something to say Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi all, I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled code. I usually tell people something like this: "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is another subject. Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 20:59:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA05312 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:59:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from softweyr.com ([204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05305 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:59:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from obie.softweyr.com (zaphod.softweyr.com [204.68.178.35]) by softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA02226; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:59:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:59:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199807040359.VAA02226@softweyr.com> Subject: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) From: Wes Peters To: jkb@best.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: Wes Peters In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: BeatWare Mail-It 1.6 (TrialWare) X-BeOS-Platform: Intel or clone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id UAA05307 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: % % Hi all, % % I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite % lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. % Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why % they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our % vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled % code. I usually tell people something like this: % "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and % they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house % support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their % whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though % they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to % run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another % example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". % Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a % message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't % need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is % another subject. Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* business. Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: 1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, etc. in an embedded system? 2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most (US, at least) companies. Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* me to get on with it. ;^) I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. (See below). Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send direct email. % Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy % the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. *I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented the caboose for a family outing. We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in 1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. Happy Birthday, America! -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 21:43:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA09762 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09756 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:43:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id VAA09824; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:42:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Wes Peters cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <199807040359.VAA02226@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: www.yahoo.com www.hotmail.com www.ebay.com www.best.com www.whistle.com www.pluris.com www.linkexchange.com If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, etc) from using FreeBSD. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: > >% >% Hi all, >% >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >% code. I usually tell people something like this: >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >% another subject. > >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >business. > >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: > >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, > etc. in an embedded system? > >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most > (US, at least) companies. > >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >me to get on with it. ;^) > >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >(See below). > >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >direct email. > >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. > >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >the caboose for a family outing. > >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. > >Happy Birthday, America! > >-- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 22:39:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13197 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:39:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newsguy.com (perry.co.pathlink.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13192 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reyesf@newsguy.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22073; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807040539.WAA22073@newsguy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:59:23 -0600 (MDT), Wes Peters wrote: >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". > >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >business. I think we need to help FreeBSD advocates (like myself) to bring FreeBSD to the companies they work for. Just mentioning to our boss about FreeBSD and who is using it is not enough. What I was thinking of today (i.e. the reason I joined this list) was that something like a full/half page ad in the Tuesday New York Times may be an eye opener. *** Disclaimer *** I am not into marketting so don't be too critical on the examples An ad with something like: Some of the hottest companies on the Internet are rising to the top with FreeBSD. Followed by the best success stories we can find: Yahoo, Best, Hotmail, any center using clustered FreeBSD boxes. After the success stories we should to a price comparison against WinNT and Solaris. And at the bottom, after some other blur, something like "Order your CD TODAY from Walnut Creek CDrom, or download your Free Copy from ftp.freebsd.org (See www.freebsd.org for instructions). The money could be collected on an ad campaign. I am positive we can find a critical mass to make enough money to pay for the ad. I suggested the New York times, because I think this should be targeted to the business side and not the technical. Technical people either like Unix (including FreeBSD) or think they have better job opportunities with NT. The business side doesnt' care about technology, they care about the bottom line: cost! If we do get to do the ad in the NY times we should prepare a page of consultants in the NYC area who can offer support for FreeBSD and have it very visible after the ad. Better yet the consultant/companies pages should either be sorted by area or at the very least have the state of the business. >A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >etc. in an embedded system? I don't think we need to compare against Linux or any other not well known OS for a business person. I think NT, Netware and Solaris should be our targets. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 22:40:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA13354 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:40:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newsguy.com (perry.co.pathlink.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13345 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:40:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reyesf@newsguy.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22085; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807040540.WAA22085@newsguy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 3 Jul 1998 21:59:23 -0600 (MDT), Wes Peters wrote: >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". > >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >business. I think we need to help FreeBSD advocates (like myself) to bring FreeBSD to the companies they work for. Just mentioning to our boss about FreeBSD and who is using it is not enough. What I was thinking of today (i.e. the reason I joined this list) was that something like a full/half page ad in the Tuesday New York Times may be an eye opener. *** Disclaimer *** I am not into marketting so don't be too critical on the examples An ad with something like: Some of the hottest companies on the Internet are rising to the top with FreeBSD. Followed by the best success stories we can find: Yahoo, Best, Hotmail, any center using clustered FreeBSD boxes. After the success stories we should to a price comparison against WinNT and Solaris. And at the bottom, after some other blur, something like "Order your CD TODAY from Walnut Creek CDrom, or download your Free Copy from ftp.freebsd.org (See www.freebsd.org for instructions). The money could be collected on an ad campaign. I am positive we can find a critical mass to make enough money to pay for the ad. I suggested the New York times, because I think this should be targeted to the business side and not the technical. Technical people either like Unix (including FreeBSD) or think they have better job opportunities with NT. The business side doesnt' care about technology, they care about the bottom line: cost! If we do get to do the ad in the NY times we should prepare a page of consultants in the NYC area who can offer support for FreeBSD and have it very visible after the ad. Better yet the consultant/companies pages should either be sorted by area or at the very least have the state of the business. >A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >etc. in an embedded system? I don't think we need to compare against Linux or any other not well known OS for a business person. I think NT, Netware and Solaris should be our targets. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 22:45:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14074 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:45:22 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14068 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:45:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA23591; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:41:38 GMT Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:41:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD in Hollywood Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com These are run by www.gisolutions.com Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > > www.yahoo.com > www.hotmail.com > www.ebay.com > www.best.com > www.whistle.com > www.pluris.com > www.linkexchange.com > > If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on > the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need > companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, > etc) from using FreeBSD. > > -- Yan > > Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- > ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. > > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: > > > >% > >% Hi all, > >% > >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite > >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. > >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why > >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our > >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled > >% code. I usually tell people something like this: > >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and > >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house > >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their > >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though > >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to > >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another > >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". > >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a > >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't > >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is > >% another subject. > > > >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and > >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success > >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business > >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* > >business. > > > >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, > >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. > >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order > >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: > > > >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, > > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, > > etc. in an embedded system? > > > >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking > > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most > > (US, at least) companies. > > > >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would > >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more > >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* > >me to get on with it. ;^) > > > >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. > >(See below). > > > >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, > >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, > >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send > >direct email. > > > >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy > >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. > > > >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my > >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo > >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed > >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to > >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented > >the caboose for a family outing. > > > >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, > >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army > >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in > >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was > >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, > >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. > > > >Happy Birthday, America! > > > >-- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 22:48:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14300 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:48:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from junior.apk.net (root@junior.apk.net [207.54.158.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14295 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:48:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@junior.apk.net) Received: from carbon (as1-icg-27.apk.net [207.54.186.37]) by junior.apk.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA09389 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199807040548.BAA09389@junior.apk.net> X-Real-To: From: "Stuart Krivis" Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems, Inc. To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:44:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Reply-to: stuart@krivis.com In-reply-to: <199807040359.VAA02226@softweyr.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 3 Jul 98, at 21:59, Wes Peters wrote: > Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and what > isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success stories like > the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business people (i.e. > "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* business. > > Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, > they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. In > other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order for them > to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: > > 1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, > etc. in an embedded system? > > 2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most > (US, at least) companies. I see the case as more "NT vs. unix." :-) They're very different mindsets. FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris x86, SCO, BSDI, Banyan - they're all kindred. They all allow you to work the way _you_ want to work. NT really does force you to work the way that MS has decided you will work. -- Stuart Krivis stuart@krivis.com [Team APK] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 23:15:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16047 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:15:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16042 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id XAA19766; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Chris Coleman cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG And also xfilesmovie.com alien-resurrection.com anya.com bulworth.com drdolittle.com volcano.com foxmovies.com -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: > >FreeBSD in Hollywood > Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: > www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com > These are run by www.gisolutions.com > >Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ > >On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > >> >> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing >> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: >> >> www.yahoo.com >> www.hotmail.com >> www.ebay.com >> www.best.com >> www.whistle.com >> www.pluris.com >> www.linkexchange.com >> >> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on >> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need >> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, >> etc) from using FreeBSD. >> >> -- Yan >> >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >> >> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >> >> >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: >> > >> >% >> >% Hi all, >> >% >> >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >> >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >> >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >> >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >> >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >> >% code. I usually tell people something like this: >> >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >> >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >> >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >> >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >> >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >> >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >> >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >> >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >> >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >> >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >> >% another subject. >> > >> >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >> >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >> >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >> >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >> >business. >> > >> >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >> >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >> >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order >> >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: >> > >> >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >> > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >> > etc. in an embedded system? >> > >> >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking >> > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most >> > (US, at least) companies. >> > >> >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >> >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >> >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >> >me to get on with it. ;^) >> > >> >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >> >(See below). >> > >> >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >> >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >> >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >> >direct email. >> > >> >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >> >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. >> > >> >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >> >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo >> >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >> >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >> >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >> >the caboose for a family outing. >> > >> >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >> >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >> >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >> >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >> >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >> >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. >> > >> >Happy Birthday, America! >> > >> >-- >> > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >> > >> >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >> >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 23:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA16738 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:34:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA16728 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:34:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA15307; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:03:26 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980704160326.C358@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:03:26 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jan B. Koum " , Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) References: <199807040359.VAA02226@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Fri, Jul 03, 1998 at 09:42:55PM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 3 July 1998 at 21:42:55 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > > www.yahoo.com > www.hotmail.com > www.ebay.com > www.best.com > www.whistle.com > www.pluris.com > www.linkexchange.com You should also look at http://www.cybernet.com/ (and if you want to be friendly to people with web-aware mail readers, you might like to put the URL in in full so that they can select it without acrobatics). Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Jul 3 23:52:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA17441 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:52:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA17436 for ; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 23:52:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id WAA14520; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:51:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 22:51:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: "Jan B. Koum" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id XAA17437 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Jul-98 Jan B. Koum wisely wrote: > > Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > > www.yahoo.com > www.hotmail.com > www.ebay.com > www.best.com > www.whistle.com > www.pluris.com > www.linkexchange.com > > If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on > the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need > companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, > etc) from using FreeBSD. > Well you can add www.mediacity.com and www.ispchannel.com. I have just spend about 500,000 dollars building a system to carry over 100K users nationwide 90% based on FreeBSD. We just got 10 Million in funding and are soon to get more. Much more. We are publicly traded as "sof" and our stock has gone from ~4.00 a share to ~12:00 a share. The money and our venture is all public information. I just wish I could make the FreeBSD part more public It is not exaclty the kind of information they put on public releases. :< Perhaps with this increase of knowlege about who used FreeBSD companies won't be afraid of letting people know they use it. Nicole > > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > >>My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: >> >>% >>% Hi all, >>% >>% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >>% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >>% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >>% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >>% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >>% code. I usually tell people something like this: >>% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >>% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >>% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >>% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >>% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >>% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >>% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >>% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >>% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >>% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >>% another subject. >> >>Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >>what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >>stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >>people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >>business. >> >>Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >>they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >>In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order >>for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: >> >>1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >> versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >> etc. in an embedded system? >> >>2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking >> new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most >> (US, at least) companies. >> >>Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >>be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >>helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >>me to get on with it. ;^) >> >>I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >>(See below). >> >>Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >>hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >>or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >>direct email. >> >>% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >>% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. >> >>*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >>two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going >>"choo >>choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >>me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >>meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >>the caboose for a family outing. >> >>We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >>through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >>Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >>1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >>later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >>near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. >> >>Happy Birthday, America! >> >>-- >> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >> >>Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >>http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >> >> >> >> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- -- Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- -- I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:24:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19745 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:24:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic57.pm03.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19740 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:24:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id AAA00711; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980704002356.E398@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:23:57 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jan B. Koum " , Wes Peters Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <199807040359.VAA02226@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Fri, Jul 03, 1998 at 09:42:55PM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 03, 1998 at 09:42:55PM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > > www.yahoo.com > www.hotmail.com > www.ebay.com > www.best.com > www.whistle.com > www.pluris.com > www.linkexchange.com You forgot; www.mediacity.com www.cdrom.com www.freebsd.org www.moviedatabase.com > > If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on > the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need > companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, > etc) from using FreeBSD. > Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:25:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19827 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:25:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19822 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:25:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA23933; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:21:45 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:21:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Francisco Reyes cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <199807040539.WAA22073@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think we need to compare against Linux or any other not well > known OS for a business person. I think NT, Netware and Solaris > should be our targets. I think you will find a lot of sympathy from the Netware Admins. We run Netware and FreeBSD here, and find it a good combination.Most admins of Netware are looking for something non-M$ to put their trust in. Something that doesn't fight against Netware. And Since Netware just sent to using X on their server, (running CDE) you might get more enthusiasim. Try to sell it as a solution to things that Netware doesnt do, not a a replacement. We run FreeBSD as a WEB SErver, DNS, and backup printing to Novell.. Keeps us from having all our eggs in one basket. -Chris > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:27:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA19973 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:27:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA19968 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:27:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA23945; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:23:36 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > And also > > xfilesmovie.com > alien-resurrection.com > anya.com > bulworth.com > drdolittle.com > volcano.com > foxmovies.com > > -- Yan > > Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- > ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. > > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: > > > > >FreeBSD in Hollywood > > Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: > > www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com > > These are run by www.gisolutions.com > > > >Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) > >Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 > >FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ > > > >On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > > >> > >> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > >> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > >> > >> www.yahoo.com > >> www.hotmail.com > >> www.ebay.com > >> www.best.com > >> www.whistle.com > >> www.pluris.com > >> www.linkexchange.com > >> > >> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on > >> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need > >> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, > >> etc) from using FreeBSD. > >> > >> -- Yan > >> > >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > >> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- > >> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. > >> > >> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > >> > >> >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: > >> > > >> >% > >> >% Hi all, > >> >% > >> >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite > >> >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. > >> >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why > >> >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our > >> >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled > >> >% code. I usually tell people something like this: > >> >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and > >> >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house > >> >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their > >> >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though > >> >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to > >> >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another > >> >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". > >> >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a > >> >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't > >> >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is > >> >% another subject. > >> > > >> >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and > >> >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success > >> >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business > >> >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* > >> >business. > >> > > >> >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, > >> >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. > >> >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out.. In order > >> >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: > >> > > >> >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, > >> > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, > >> > etc. in an embedded system? > >> > > >> >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking > >> > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most > >> > (US, at least) companies. > >> > > >> >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would > >> >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more > >> >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* > >> >me to get on with it. ;^) > >> > > >> >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. > >> >(See below). > >> > > >> >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, > >> >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, > >> >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send > >> >direct email. > >> > > >> >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy > >> >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. > >> > > >> >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my > >> >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo > >> >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed > >> >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to > >> >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented > >> >the caboose for a family outing. > >> > > >> >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, > >> >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army > >> >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in > >> >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was > >> >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, > >> >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. > >> > > >> >Happy Birthday, America! > >> > > >> >-- > >> > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > >> > > >> >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > >> >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >> > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:37:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20502 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20455 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:35:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id AAA27719; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:35:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:35:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Josef Grosch cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <19980704002356.E398@mooseriver.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: >On Fri, Jul 03, 1998 at 09:42:55PM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: >> >> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing >> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: >> >> www.yahoo.com >> www.hotmail.com >> www.ebay.com >> www.best.com >> www.whistle.com >> www.pluris.com >> www.linkexchange.com > >You forgot; > >www.mediacity.com >www.cdrom.com >www.freebsd.org >www.moviedatabase.com I think my point got lost along the way here. We are making a case to business people. People who wear suites. People who don't know what boot sector is. They dont' know and dont' care what freebsd.org is or cdrom.com is. They want examples where people made a lot of money using FreeBSD. I think everything I list would qualify. Out of what you listed I think only mediacity and moviedatabase qualify. Thanks. But do remember, we need examples of people making BIG money with FreeBSD. Not simply running BIG servers. We are not making our case to techies - we are making our case to suit wearing public. -- Yan > >> >> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on >> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need >> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, >> etc) from using FreeBSD. >> > > >Josef > >-- >Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 >jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:39:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20650 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:39:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20645 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:38:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id AAA27985; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Chris Coleman cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Not according to the mail we got: (why would someone lie anyway?) Begin quoting ========== >From jb@www4.nugate.com Sat Jul 4 00:36:58 1998 Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:08:42 -0700 From: Jordan Blum To: www@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Official Movie Sites Using FreeBSD and Apache Hello: We are a local ISP located in Hollywood, CA. We currently host *all* of Twentieth Century Fox's official movie sites using the Apache server. Our most recent launch was the official X-Files movie site which is racking up more than 3 million hits and over 50MB of data transfer per day. Pretty amazing for free software:-) Thanks for all of the awesome work. Here is a short list of sites: xfilesmovie.com alien-resurrection.com anya.com bulworth.com drdolittle.com volcano.com foxmovies.com etc. etc. Jordan Blum Global Internet Solutions http://www.gisolutions.com PH 213.993.3700 Ext. 24 FAX 213.993.3738 End quoting ========= -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) > >Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ > >On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > >> >> And also >> >> xfilesmovie.com >> alien-resurrection.com >> anya.com >> bulworth.com >> drdolittle.com >> volcano.com >> foxmovies.com >> >> -- Yan >> >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >> >> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >> >> > >> >FreeBSD in Hollywood >> > Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: >> > www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com >> > These are run by www.gisolutions.com >> > >> >Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >> >Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >> >FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ >> > >> >On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing >> >> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: >> >> >> >> www.yahoo.com >> >> www.hotmail.com >> >> www.ebay.com >> >> www.best.com >> >> www.whistle.com >> >> www.pluris.com >> >> www.linkexchange.com >> >> >> >> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on >> >> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need >> >> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, >> >> etc) from using FreeBSD. >> >> >> >> -- Yan >> >> >> >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >> >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >> >> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >> >> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >> >> >> >> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >> >> >> >> >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: >> >> > >> >> >% >> >> >% Hi all, >> >> >% >> >> >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >> >> >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >> >> >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >> >> >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >> >> >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >> >> >% code. I usually tell people something like this: >> >> >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >> >> >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >> >> >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >> >> >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >> >> >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >> >> >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >> >> >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >> >> >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >> >> >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >> >> >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >> >> >% another subject. >> >> > >> >> >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >> >> >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >> >> >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >> >> >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >> >> >business. >> >> > >> >> >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >> >> >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >> >> >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out.. In order >> >> >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: >> >> > >> >> >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >> >> > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >> >> > etc. in an embedded system? >> >> > >> >> >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking >> >> > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most >> >> > (US, at least) companies. >> >> > >> >> >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >> >> >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >> >> >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >> >> >me to get on with it. ;^) >> >> > >> >> >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >> >> >(See below). >> >> > >> >> >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >> >> >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >> >> >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >> >> >direct email. >> >> > >> >> >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >> >> >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. >> >> > >> >> >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >> >> >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo >> >> >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >> >> >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >> >> >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >> >> >the caboose for a family outing. >> >> > >> >> >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >> >> >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >> >> >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >> >> >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >> >> >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >> >> >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. >> >> > >> >> >Happy Birthday, America! >> >> > >> >> >-- >> >> > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >> >> > >> >> >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >> >> >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:43:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA20977 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:43:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20972 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:43:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA24035; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:40:05 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:40:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I talked with the guy who wrote that original letter. He was quoting those for ones that used apache. I wrote to him about using them in the RQN and he told me which were actually *Currently* running FreeBSD, but the others are slated to become FreeBSD RSN. Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 00:55:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA22260 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:55:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA22246 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:55:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id AAA29356; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:55:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:55:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Chris Coleman cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok. He lied. :) Kidding.. Thanks for clearing this up. -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >I talked with the guy who wrote that original letter. He was quoting >those for ones that used apache. I wrote to him about using them in the >RQN and he told me which were actually *Currently* running FreeBSD, but >the others are slated to become FreeBSD RSN. > > >Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 01:00:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA23094 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:00:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA23081 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:00:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id RAA15714; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:29:46 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980704172945.J358@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:29:45 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jan B. Koum " , Chris Coleman Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 12:38:57AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 4 July 1998 at 0:38:57 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > Not according to the mail we got: (why would someone lie anyway?) OK, I give up. To what part of the text below are you referring? Greg > Begin quoting ========== > > >> From jb@www4.nugate.com Sat Jul 4 00:36:58 1998 > Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:08:42 -0700 > From: Jordan Blum > To: www@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Official Movie Sites Using FreeBSD and Apache > > Hello: > > We are a local ISP located in Hollywood, CA. We currently host *all* of > Twentieth Century Fox's official movie sites using the Apache server. Our > most recent launch was the official X-Files movie site which is racking up > more than 3 million hits and over 50MB of data transfer per day. Pretty > amazing for free software:-) > > Thanks for all of the awesome work. > > Here is a short list of sites: > > xfilesmovie.com > alien-resurrection.com > anya.com > bulworth.com > drdolittle.com > volcano.com > foxmovies.com > etc. > etc. > > > Jordan Blum > Global Internet Solutions > http://www.gisolutions.com > PH 213.993.3700 Ext. 24 > FAX 213.993.3738 > > End quoting ========= > > -- Yan > > Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- > ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. > > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: > >> Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) >> >> Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >> Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >> FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ >> >> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >> >>> >>> And also >>> >>> xfilesmovie.com >>> alien-resurrection.com >>> anya.com >>> bulworth.com >>> drdolittle.com >>> volcano.com >>> foxmovies.com >>> >>> -- Yan >>> >>> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >>> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >>> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >>> >>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> FreeBSD in Hollywood >>>> Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: >>>> www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com >>>> These are run by www.gisolutions.com >>>> >>>> Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >>>> Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >>>> FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ >>>> >>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing >>>>> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: >>>>> >>>>> www.yahoo.com >>>>> www.hotmail.com >>>>> www.ebay.com >>>>> www.best.com >>>>> www.whistle.com >>>>> www.pluris.com >>>>> www.linkexchange.com >>>>> >>>>> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on >>>>> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need >>>>> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, >>>>> etc) from using FreeBSD. >>>>> >>>>> -- Yan >>>>> >>>>> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >>>>> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >>>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >>>>> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >>>>>>> lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >>>>>>> Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >>>>>>> they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >>>>>>> vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >>>>>>> code. I usually tell people something like this: >>>>>>> "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >>>>>>> they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >>>>>>> support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >>>>>>> whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >>>>>>> they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >>>>>>> run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >>>>>>> example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >>>>>>> Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >>>>>>> message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >>>>>>> need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >>>>>>> another subject. >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >>>>>> what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >>>>>> stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >>>>>> people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >>>>>> business. >>>>>> >>>>>> Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >>>>>> they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >>>>>> In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out.. In order >>>>>> for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >>>>>> versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >>>>>> etc. in an embedded system? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking >>>>>> new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most >>>>>> (US, at least) companies. >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >>>>>> be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >>>>>> helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >>>>>> me to get on with it. ;^) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >>>>>> (See below). >>>>>> >>>>>> Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >>>>>> hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >>>>>> or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >>>>>> direct email. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >>>>>>> the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. >>>>>> >>>>>> *I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >>>>>> two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo >>>>>> choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >>>>>> me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >>>>>> meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >>>>>> the caboose for a family outing. >>>>>> >>>>>> We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >>>>>> through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >>>>>> Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >>>>>> 1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >>>>>> later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >>>>>> near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. >>>>>> >>>>>> Happy Birthday, America! >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >>>>>> http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>>>> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 01:14:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA25009 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24997 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id BAA02976; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: Greg Lehey cc: Chris Coleman , Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <19980704172945.J358@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >On Saturday, 4 July 1998 at 0:38:57 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: >> >> Not according to the mail we got: (why would someone lie anyway?) > >OK, I give up. To what part of the text below are you referring? Here: ==== > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: > >> Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) ==== But we already figured it all out. Sorry :) -- Yan > >Greg > >> Begin quoting ========== >> >> >>> From jb@www4.nugate.com Sat Jul 4 00:36:58 1998 >> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:08:42 -0700 >> From: Jordan Blum >> To: www@FreeBSD.ORG >> Subject: Official Movie Sites Using FreeBSD and Apache >> >> Hello: >> >> We are a local ISP located in Hollywood, CA. We currently host *all* of >> Twentieth Century Fox's official movie sites using the Apache server. Our >> most recent launch was the official X-Files movie site which is racking up >> more than 3 million hits and over 50MB of data transfer per day. Pretty >> amazing for free software:-) >> >> Thanks for all of the awesome work. >> >> Here is a short list of sites: >> >> xfilesmovie.com >> alien-resurrection.com >> anya.com >> bulworth.com >> drdolittle.com >> volcano.com >> foxmovies.com >> etc. >> etc. >> >> >> Jordan Blum >> Global Internet Solutions >> http://www.gisolutions.com >> PH 213.993.3700 Ext. 24 >> FAX 213.993.3738 >> >> End quoting ========= >> >> -- Yan >> >> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >> >> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >> >>> Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) >>> >>> Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >>> Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >>> FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ >>> >>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> And also >>>> >>>> xfilesmovie.com >>>> alien-resurrection.com >>>> anya.com >>>> bulworth.com >>>> drdolittle.com >>>> volcano.com >>>> foxmovies.com >>>> >>>> -- Yan >>>> >>>> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >>>> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >>>> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >>>> >>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> FreeBSD in Hollywood >>>>> Check out these FreeBSD/Apache run web sites: >>>>> www.volcano.com www.romeoandjuliet.com www.speed2-cruisecontrol.com >>>>> These are run by www.gisolutions.com >>>>> >>>>> Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) >>>>> Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 >>>>> FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing >>>>>> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: >>>>>> >>>>>> www.yahoo.com >>>>>> www.hotmail.com >>>>>> www.ebay.com >>>>>> www.best.com >>>>>> www.whistle.com >>>>>> www.pluris.com >>>>>> www.linkexchange.com >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on >>>>>> the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need >>>>>> companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, >>>>>> etc) from using FreeBSD. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Yan >>>>>> >>>>>> Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want >>>>>> www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." >>>>>> ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- >>>>>> ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite >>>>>>>> lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. >>>>>>>> Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why >>>>>>>> they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our >>>>>>>> vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled >>>>>>>> code. I usually tell people something like this: >>>>>>>> "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and >>>>>>>> they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house >>>>>>>> support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their >>>>>>>> whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though >>>>>>>> they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to >>>>>>>> run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another >>>>>>>> example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". >>>>>>>> Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a >>>>>>>> message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't >>>>>>>> need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is >>>>>>>> another subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and >>>>>>> what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success >>>>>>> stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business >>>>>>> people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* >>>>>>> business. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, >>>>>>> they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. >>>>>>> In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out.. In order >>>>>>> for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, >>>>>>> versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, >>>>>>> etc. in an embedded system? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking >>>>>>> new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most >>>>>>> (US, at least) companies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would >>>>>>> be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more >>>>>>> helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* >>>>>>> me to get on with it. ;^) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. >>>>>>> (See below). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, >>>>>>> hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, >>>>>>> or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send >>>>>>> direct email. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy >>>>>>>> the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my >>>>>>> two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo >>>>>>> choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed >>>>>>> me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to >>>>>>> meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented >>>>>>> the caboose for a family outing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, >>>>>>> through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army >>>>>>> Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in >>>>>>> 1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was >>>>>>> later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, >>>>>>> near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Happy Birthday, America! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wes Peters Softweyr LLC >>>>>>> http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>>>>> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > >-- >See complete headers for address and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 01:44:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA29766 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [139.130.136.133] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA29752 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:44:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id SAA15920; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:14:30 +0930 (CST) Message-ID: <19980704181430.K358@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:14:30 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Chris Coleman , Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) References: <19980704172945.J358@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 01:14:22AM -0700 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Saturday, 4 July 1998 at 1:14:22 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Saturday, 4 July 1998 at 0:38:57 -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: >>> >>> Not according to the mail we got: (why would someone lie anyway?) >> >> OK, I give up. To what part of the text below are you referring? > > Here: > >> On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Chris Coleman wrote: >>> Those are soon to be FreeBSD, but they run Apache. :-) > > But we already figured it all out. Sorry :) Still, it would be nice if you would trim superflouous stuff from your messages. This last reply was 243 lines long, and most of it was long dead. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 02:27:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05885 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:27:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA05804 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:27:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12364; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:26:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 03 Jul 1998 21:42:55 PDT." Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <12360.899544380@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > www.ebay.com Where do you get your information? Sources at ebay yelled at us the last time you cited them because they happen to run everything off NT and don't know why people keep saying they run FreeBSD. Can we just quash this rumor now? :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 02:28:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA05986 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:28:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA05895 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:27:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA12379; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 02:27:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Francisco Reyes" cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:38:43 EDT." <199807040539.WAA22073@newsguy.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:27:13 -0700 Message-ID: <12376.899544433@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > What I was thinking of today (i.e. the reason I joined this list) was > that something like a full/half page ad in the Tuesday New York Times > may be an eye opener. Believe it or not, the hardest part of doing this is writing something worthy of a NYT advertisement. The money is easy by comparison. :) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 03:17:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA13321 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:17:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (jkb@shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA13288 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:17:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkb@best.com) Received: from localhost (jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.sh) with SMTP id DAA13112; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: shell6.ba.best.com: jkb owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jan B. Koum " X-Sender: jkb@shell6.ba.best.com To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <12360.899544380@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG *sigh* I hate to do finger pointing but... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=10802+13526+/usr/local/www/db/text/1998/freebsd-hardware/19980621.freebsd-hardware (above is all one line of course) -- Yan Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> www.ebay.com > >Where do you get your information? Sources at ebay yelled at us >the last time you cited them because they happen to run everything >off NT and don't know why people keep saying they run FreeBSD. Can >we just quash this rumor now? :) > >- Jordan > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 03:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA16496 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (root@time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA16477 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:42:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA15851; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:42:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 04 Jul 1998 03:17:10 PDT." Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 03:42:11 -0700 Message-ID: <15847.899548931@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > *sigh* I hate to do finger pointing but... > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=10802+13526+/usr/local/www/db/tex t/1998/freebsd-hardware/19980621.freebsd-hardware Saw it. Wasn't correct. :( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 04:11:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA21512 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:11:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newsguy.com (perry.co.pathlink.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA21456 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:10:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reyesf@newsguy.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06486; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807041110.EAA06486@newsguy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "Chris Coleman" Cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 07:10:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:21:45 -0700 (PDT), Chris Coleman wrote: >I think you will find a lot of sympathy from the Netware Admins. >Try to sell it as a solution to things that Netware doesnt do, not a a >replacement. > >We run FreeBSD as a WEB SErver, DNS, and backup printing to Novell.. >Keeps us from having all our eggs in one basket. >Chris That's another good point. We can mention FreeBSD can be a compliment to existing systems, just as you mention. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 04:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22309 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:20:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from newsguy.com (perry.co.pathlink.com [207.211.168.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22304 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:20:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from reyesf@newsguy.com) Received: (from reyesf@localhost) by newsguy.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA06823; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199807041120.EAA06823@newsguy.com> From: "Francisco Reyes" To: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 07:20:04 -0400 Reply-To: "Francisco Reyes" X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Professional (2.01.1600) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 04 Jul 1998 02:27:13 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> What I was thinking of today (i.e. the reason I joined this list) was >> that something like a full/half page ad in the Tuesday New York Times >> may be an eye opener. > >Believe it or not, the hardest part of doing this is writing something >worthy of a NYT advertisement. The money is easy by comparison. :) >Jordan If the problem is writing/production then why don't we also get the money to hire someone to help us with this. Couldn't we try approaching some marketting firms? I think if we approach a marketting firm, even if they are not Unix aware we can explain the situtation: we have a product, it is free, supported by volunteers and technically competitive. We lack mindshare and recognition..... some well known companies are using it and would not mind us mentioning them..... Don't know how much such firms may charge, but it may be worth a shot trying to find out. We could talk to some of the companies, like Yahoo, to see if they could give us pointers on what marketting firms they use. Also see if they may contribute to the ad some money since their name will be there and will in itself be an ad for them too. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 04:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22554 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:24:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (root@[194.72.37.214]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA22544 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:24:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from stuart@internationalschool.co.uk) Received: from internationalschool.co.uk (bamboo.tis [10.0.0.70]) by internationalschool.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23495; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:18:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <359E0F73.7C938613@internationalschool.co.uk> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 12:18:11 +0100 From: Stuart Henderson Organization: The International School X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey CC: "Jan B. Koum" , Chris Coleman , Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) References: <19980704172945.J358@freebie.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey wrote: > > OK, I give up. To what part of the text below are you referring? maybe this? > > Subject: Official Movie Sites Using FreeBSD and Apache seeing as it looked like a 'thanks' message sent to freebsd.. :-) I don't think anyone mentioned ftpsearch yet? http://ftpsearch.ntnu.no/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 07:05:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA03883 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:05:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mooseriver.com (dynamic57.pm03.sf3d.best.com [209.24.234.185]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA03876 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) id HAA06875; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <19980704070548.A6732@mooseriver.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 07:05:48 -0700 From: Josef Grosch To: "Jan B. Koum " , Josef Grosch Cc: Wes Peters , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Reply-To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com References: <19980704002356.E398@mooseriver.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jan B. Koum on Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 12:35:53AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Jul 04, 1998 at 12:35:53AM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Josef Grosch wrote: > > >On Fri, Jul 03, 1998 at 09:42:55PM -0700, Jan B. Koum wrote: > >> > >> Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > >> droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > >> > >> www.yahoo.com > >> www.hotmail.com > >> www.ebay.com > >> www.best.com > >> www.whistle.com > >> www.pluris.com > >> www.linkexchange.com > > > >You forgot; > > > >www.mediacity.com > >www.cdrom.com > >www.freebsd.org > >www.moviedatabase.com > > I think my point got lost along the way here. We are making a case > to business people. People who wear suites. People who don't know what boot > sector is. They dont' know and dont' care what freebsd.org is or cdrom.com > is. They want examples where people made a lot of money using FreeBSD. I > think everything I list would qualify. Out of what you listed I think only > mediacity and moviedatabase qualify. Thanks. But do remember, we need > examples of people making BIG money with FreeBSD. Not simply running BIG > servers. We are not making our case to techies - we are making our case to > suit wearing public. > Sorry, www.freebsd.org and www.cdrom.com was a very poor joke. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 09:35:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA15563 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:35:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA15558 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:35:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (ferengal-1-45.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.128.45]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id LAA18008; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:35:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id LAA02463; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:35:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980704163506.ZM2462@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 16:35:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: "Jan B. Koum " "Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say)" (Jul 3, 9:42pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: "Jan B. Koum " , Wes Peters Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Juat a few short comments that quickly came to mind as I have been following this thread. The ideas and participation are looking great. I agree that we need a listing as well as some intimate detail on the major players that are using FreeBSD in profitable enterprise. We also can use the the "individual success stories", if for no other reason than they can form a base for further write-up to be posted on the web page, and/or published in ezines or hardcopy publications. Both of these are critical to the success of our efforts. A combined effort will provide a lot of fodder for other projects to compete for publication space, that will get the word aout about FreeBSD. So if you are involved in projects such as replacing an NT server, NetWare server, Linux or any of these kinds of things, and you have the time to keep some copious notes listing the planning issues, gotchas, and other issues that were resolved, an foreward these on to the group, the writers among us can use this as publication material. We really need a lot of that kind of stuff. I also think that we should refrain from using pejoritives when referring to the suits. Why do I feel that I am taking on the alter-ego of Jordan Hubbard here? I agree with your intent and feelings about them, that's not the issue. We must remember that they are the very people that we are trying to attract, and when they make decisions they often are putting their jobs on the line. To quote Jordan, the way to attract the suits is to stop chasing them with fire axes. We should tend to view them as potential business partners. Enjoy the holiday. Regards. Frank On Jul 3, 9:42pm, Jan B. Koum wrote: > Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) > > Here is my list of companies which would appeal to suit wearing > droids. Lets add to it and make it biger: > > www.yahoo.com > www.hotmail.com > www.ebay.com > www.best.com > www.whistle.com > www.pluris.com > www.linkexchange.com > > If you have a 4 cpu PPro SMP machine with 1Gig of RAM sittig on > the T3 serving a lot of traffic it won't make it on the list. We need > companies which actually make money.. and A LOT of money (Yahoo, best, > etc) from using FreeBSD. > > -- Yan > > Jan Koum jkb@best.com | "Turn up the lights; I don't want > www.FreeBSD.org -- The Power to Serve | to go home in the dark." > ---------------------------------------+----------------------------------- > ICMP: What happens when you hack into a military network and they catch you. > > On Fri, 3 Jul 1998, Wes Peters wrote: > > >My hidden microphone recorded Jan B. Koum (jkb@best.com) saying: > > > >% > >% Hi all, > >% > >% I just wanted to say something here since this list has been quite > >% lately. Basically, many of you already know this, but anyway. > >% Whenever I have to convince someone who is not very technical why > >% they should use FreeBSD, I usually try not to bore them with how great our > >% vm is, or why is it better to have centralized and hence better controlled > >% code. I usually tell people something like this: > >% "Look, here is an example: yahoo. Their stock is skyrocketing and > >% they are doing excellent. Yes, they are using FreeBSD. They have in house > >% support for it, but still, they must know what they are doing - their > >% whole operation is FreeBSD based. Another example is Hotmail. Even though > >% they got bought by MS, they are still using FreeBSD on the front end to > >% run their servers since NT couldn't' handle the load. Want another > >% example? Take a look at Best Internet -- they jut filed for IPO". > >% Something in the lines of the above paragraph usually gets a > >% message through to the suits that to have successful company you don't > >% need NT or Solaris. You just need to have people with a clue. But that is > >% another subject. > > > >Frank Pawlak called me yesterday to chat about what is happening, and > >what isn't, in FreeBSD-Advocacy. As we talked, we decided success > >stories like the above are *exactly* what we need to convince business > >people (i.e. "suits") that FreeBSD is a suitable choice for *their* > >business. > > > >Managers may not be the smartest people in the world -- if they were, > >they'd be kernel VM developers -- but they are extremely risk averse. > >In other words, they don't want to stick their necks out. In order > >for them to say yes to using FreeBSD, they want to see two things: > > > >1) A business case. How will using FreeBSD improve their bottom line, > > versus say NT or Linux on a server, or Linux, VxWorks, QNX, LynxOS, > > etc. in an embedded system? > > > >2) A success story (or 20). They want to make sure they're NOT breaking > > new ground; that is "risk taking," which is severely punished in most > > (US, at least) companies. > > > >Frank and I agreed that an outline for a prototypical success story would > >be helpful to this group, and an EXAMPLE success story would be even more > >helpful. Since I volunteered to write one a while ago, he *encouraged* > >me to get on with it. ;^) > > > >I'll be doing that this weekend, as long as my life doesn't intrude. > >(See below). > > > >Please, folks, if you have any contributions to make in this discussion, > >hop in now. Take the initiative like Frank did - find another Advocate, > >or someone who should be an Advocate, call him or her on the phone, send > >direct email. > > > >% Anyway, happy 4th to those who celebrate (I don't, I just enjoy > >% the day off) and lets make some noise on this list. > > > >*I* spent the afternoon riding a steam train with my family, including my > >two-year-old daughter, who walked up and down the train several times going "choo > >choo choo." She charmed the other passengers nearly as much as she charmed > >me; they would make whistle sounds "woo woo" as we passed. We also got to > >meet Karl Malone, of the Utah Jazz NBA (pro basketball) team; he had rented > >the caboose for a family outing. > > > >We learned a bit of American history, too: the rail route for this train, > >through Provo Canyon in north-central Utah, was first surveyed by the US Army > >Corps of Engineers as a possible route for the transcontinental railroad in > >1839, by a young engineering officer named Jefferson Davis. Mr. Davis was > >later the first (and only) president of the Confederate States of America, > >near whose capitol I was born, as was my father and older brother. > > > >Happy Birthday, America! > > > >-- > > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > > >Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > >http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr wes@softweyr.com > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Jan B. Koum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 10:55:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA22274 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:55:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xwin.webweaver.net (xwin.webweaver.net [208.138.29.35]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22268 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@xwin.webweaver.net) Received: (from nicole@localhost) by xwin.webweaver.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) id JAA19239; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole Harrington To: "Jan B. Koum" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! Any place you can! Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , Josef Grosch , "Jordan K. Hubbard" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hub.freebsd.org id KAA22269 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 04-Jul-98 Jan B. Koum wisely wrote: > > I think my point got lost along the way here. We are making a case > to business people. People who wear suites. People who don't know what boot > sector is. They dont' know and dont' care what freebsd.org is or cdrom.com > is. They want examples where people made a lot of money using FreeBSD. I > think everything I list would qualify. Out of what you listed I think only > mediacity and moviedatabase qualify. Thanks. But do remember, we need > examples of people making BIG money with FreeBSD. Not simply running BIG > servers. We are not making our case to techies - we are making our case to > suit wearing public. > > -- Yan > The reason FreeBSD is not so well known is because it is believed, somewhat rightly so, as not having a cool well known name. It is believed to appeal only to techies. If my company put out a Press Release stating that we where using FreeBSD, what percentage of the population would understand it? Most people also don't really know what Linux or Sun is, but they have heard the name, and that is often enough for them. They may then resort to dissecting the name and saying, " they are using a Free Operating thingy, must be a cash starved or a cheap company. On a side note, the coolest name I have ever heard for an OS/Kernel is the Mach4 Kernel, people don't have to understand it, it just sounds cool. Hell lets face it, right now I would bet more people have heard of Linux than BSDI and Free/Net/OpenBSD. We don't have the PR engine that they do. They have thousands of members of the Linux Sheehad who's duty it is to share the word about Linux. Not to mention the companies selling the stuff, like Caldera, who need to advertise. Then of course the PR engines of the $$ Os's. I believe collecting a list of Names is "A Good Thing"(tm) however it is what we do with them that is important! We need to get companies to work with us on this. A few suggestions: 1) Offering a adversing co-op deal. Every time they advertise using the FreeBSD name they get some money. also the big deal these days seems to be to "partner" with someone. How could they and what would they get for "Partnering" with FreeBSD? (think like a suit now..) 2) Advertising in well known Mags. Many of us are irritated at performance computing magazine for going so NT. But imagine an ad in it to the tone of, what ever it can do, we can do it better! 3) Overall, do more Guerilla advertising. Which means taking advantage of every Free advertising venue possible. BSDI advertises and is still largely unknown becouse they Only seem to target Techie Venues. While this is a good core start. You need to put the name under the noses of the comman people to reach the suits. 4) Just as we have the core development team, we need a core marketing team. Just my .02 Nicole nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ ------------------------------------------------- -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- - I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 11:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA23726 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:21:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from bb.cc.wa.us (chris@bb.cc.wa.us [134.39.181.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA23719 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:21:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@bb.cc.wa.us) Received: from localhost (chris@localhost) by bb.cc.wa.us (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA24613; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:18:29 GMT Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:18:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Francisco Reyes cc: "advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! (re: just something to say) In-Reply-To: <199807041110.EAA06486@newsguy.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 4 Jul 1998, Francisco Reyes wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:21:45 -0700 (PDT), Chris Coleman wrote: > > >I think you will find a lot of sympathy from the Netware Admins. > >Try to sell it as a solution to things that Netware doesnt do, not a a > >replacement. > > > >We run FreeBSD as a WEB SErver, DNS, and backup printing to Novell.. > >Keeps us from having all our eggs in one basket. > >Chris > > That's another good point. We can mention FreeBSD can be a compliment > to existing systems, just as you mention. Just FYI, on the other side of our house, we run FreeBSD and NT. FreeBSD does all the Internet stuff and NT does our file serving. Keeps everybody happy. > Christopher J. Coleman (whyareyou@lookingforme.com) Computer Support Analyst I (509)-762-6341 FreeBSD Book Project: http://www.vmunix.com/fbsd-book/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Jul 4 11:55:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA27018 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:55:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26995 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:55:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fpawlak@execpc.com) Received: from darkstar.connect.com (skaro-2-76.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.138.204]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.0) id NAA23597; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:55:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from fpawlak@localhost) by darkstar.connect.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA02700; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:55:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Frank Pawlak" Message-Id: <980704185507.ZM2699@darkstar.connect.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:55:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: Nicole Harrington "Re: Advocates, speak up! Any place you can!" (Jul 4, 9:55am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: Nicole Harrington , "Jan B. Koum" Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! Any place you can! Cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, Wes Peters , Josef Grosch , "Jordan K. Hubbard" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Jul 4, 9:55am, Nicole Harrington wrote: > Subject: Re: Advocates, speak up! Any place you can! > > On 04-Jul-98 Jan B. Koum wisely wrote: > > > > > I think my point got lost along the way here. We are making a case > > to business people. People who wear suites. People who don't know what boot > > sector is. They dont' know and dont' care what freebsd.org is or cdrom.com > > is. They want examples where people made a lot of money using FreeBSD. I > > think everything I list would qualify. Out of what you listed I think only > > mediacity and moviedatabase qualify. Thanks. But do remember, we need > > examples of people making BIG money with FreeBSD. Not simply running BIG > > servers. We are not making our case to techies - we are making our case to > > suit wearing public. > > > > -- Yan > > > > The reason FreeBSD is not so well known is because it is believed, somewhat > rightly so, as not having a cool well known name. It is believed to appeal only > to techies. > > If my company put out a Press Release stating that we where using FreeBSD, > what percentage of the population would understand it? Most people also don't > really know what Linux or Sun is, but they have heard the name, and that is > often enough for them. They may then resort to dissecting the name and saying, " > they are using a Free Operating thingy, must be a cash starved or a cheap > company. On a side note, the coolest name I have ever heard for an OS/Kernel is > the Mach4 Kernel, people don't have to understand it, it just sounds cool. > > Hell lets face it, right now I would bet more people have heard of Linux than > BSDI and Free/Net/OpenBSD. We don't have the PR engine that they do. They have > thousands of members of the Linux Sheehad who's duty it is to share the word > about Linux. Not to mention the companies selling the stuff, like Caldera, who > need to advertise. Then of course the PR engines of the $$ Os's. > > I believe collecting a list of Names is "A Good Thing"(tm) however it is what > we do with them that is important! We need to get companies to work with us on > this. > > A few suggestions: > > 1) Offering a adversing co-op deal. Every time they advertise using the FreeBSD > name they get some money. also the big deal these days seems to be to "partner" > with someone. How could they and what would they get for "Partnering" with > FreeBSD? (think like a suit now..) > > 2) Advertising in well known Mags. Many of us are irritated at > performance computing magazine for going so NT. But imagine an ad in it to the > tone of, what ever it can do, we can do it better! > > 3) Overall, do more Guerilla advertising. Which means taking advantage of every > Free advertising venue possible. BSDI advertises and is still largely unknown > becouse they Only seem to target Techie Venues. While this is a good core start. > You need to put the name under the noses of the comman people to > reach the suits. > > 4) Just as we have the core development team, we need a core marketing team. These are all great ideas and deserve serious consideration. As to your #4, a few months ago, sometime in march if memory serves, I gave that a shot. In general it died a sudden death for all kinds of reasons. In fairness some projects spun off of the idea and were followed to conclusion. The main problem I had was getting volunteers for coordinators and do-bees to get some things done. Had a few private messages backing the idea, but it still didn't get off the ground. Regards, Frank > > > Just my .02 > > Nicole > > > > nicole@webweaver.net - http://www.webweaver.net/ > webmistress@dangermouse.org - http://www.dangermouse.org/ > ------------------------------------------------- > > -- Powered by Coka Cola and FreeBSD -- > - Stong enough for a man - But made for a Woman -- > > -- Microsoft: What bug would you like today? -- > - I tried an internal modem once, but it hurt when I walked -- > > --------------------------------------------------- > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Nicole Harrington To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message