From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 04:47:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA22468 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 04:47:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from www.inx.de (www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA22461; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 04:47:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jnickelsen@acm.org) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from [195.21.163.120] (195.21.163.120) with esmtp id ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:45:39 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: jn@berlin.snafu.de Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <368E1EFB.918A2BF7@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 00:58:52 +0100 To: Mark Ovens From: Juergen Nickelsen Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 14:28 +0100 02.01.1999, Mark Ovens wrote on freebsd-chat: >The driver, whilst working fine, is somewhat inconsistent in it's >use of long and short (8.3) filenames, e.g. ls on my system lists >both ``PROGRA~1'' and ``Program Files'' in the (NTFS) root dir. I >can ``cd'' to either and the ``pwd'' returns ``/ntfs/Program Files'' >in both cases. Isn't this exactly how it should be? Thinking in Unix terms, both the long and the short name are links to the same object, so if you cd to a directory you end up in the same directory regardless which link you use. Other than a Unix directory, though, it has not a single name, but two, but you want to know the long name. Greetings, Juergen. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use iQA/AwUBNo6yrvxneYZkCUPbEQJMcQCg70n4oZl7Gvs58Bf5Kghw9bpYqPUAn2Ra AwHE1CD1LegNYV1E2EnYIwIS =n953 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 08:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08567 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:19:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08562; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:19:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.156]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAE29; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:18:57 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <368E7EE3.96B2290F@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:26:08 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> Heh, hidden away? He has posted to the list a few times =) > Ah, but which list(s)?. I only subscribe to -chat & -qusetions stable and current I thought... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 08:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA08926 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:22:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA08912 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 08:22:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.156]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5B2C; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:21:55 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <368E804E.3B8FA4D9@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 17:29:06 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Mark Ovens Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Sue Blake Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 03:19:57PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> > On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: >> > >> > Yeah, but both he and I never found any documentation regarding >> > writing to NTFS drives since MS is reluctant to hand out specs. > I'm sure I've seen a book (by Microsoft Press IIRC) that is all about > the NT filesystem. I'll see if I can track it down. Don't bother... It isn't technical information. What Semen needs is a description about $MFT and how to modify that... >> So what's stopping it from being pulled in to save all this hassle? >> It'd be another incentive for people who are considering moving from NT >> to some kind of unix to try FreeBSD. > Another good point. I think there is a lot of active development going > on though as the versions have moved form 0.6 to 0.9 in pretty rapid > succession ( the only reason that it's taken me this long to get round > to trying it is that all previous versions I d/l'd gunzip complained > were corrupt). Heh, he was a little overzealous whenever I reported back bugs... But I have to say, it was pretty stable from start... I dunno how stable it needs to be before one could submit it for a commit. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 12:03:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA01446 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:03:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ns1.yes.no (ns1.yes.no [195.204.136.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA01438 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from eivind@bitbox.follo.net) Received: from bitbox.follo.net (bitbox.follo.net [195.204.143.218]) by ns1.yes.no (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18476; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:02:43 +0100 (CET) Received: (from eivind@localhost) by bitbox.follo.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) id VAA99674; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:02:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19990103210242.Z88411@follo.net> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:02:42 +0100 From: Eivind Eklund To: Mark Ovens , Sue Blake Cc: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions References: <368E1EFB.918A2BF7@uk.radan.com> <19990103014110.34980@welearn.com.au> <368E804E.3B8FA4D9@uk.radan.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <368E804E.3B8FA4D9@uk.radan.com>; from Mark Ovens on Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 08:23:42PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 08:23:42PM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > Sue Blake wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 03:19:57PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > > On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, but both he and I never found any documentation regarding > > > writing to NTFS drives since MS is reluctant to hand out specs. > > > > I'm sure I've seen a book (by Microsoft Press IIRC) that is all about > the NT filesystem. I'll see if I can track it down. NTFS internals, from O'Reilly and Associates. It should include doc on how to write to the FS; I can check tomorrow. Eivind. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 12:29:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04030 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:29:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04008 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:29:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.57.15]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA459C; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 21:29:26 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <19990103210242.Z88411@follo.net> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:36:37 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Eivind Eklund Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Sue Blake , Mark Ovens Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 03-Jan-99 Eivind Eklund wrote: > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 08:23:42PM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: >> Sue Blake wrote: >> > >> > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 03:19:57PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> > > On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: >> > > >> > > Yeah, but both he and I never found any documentation regarding >> > > writing to NTFS drives since MS is reluctant to hand out specs. >> > >> >> I'm sure I've seen a book (by Microsoft Press IIRC) that is all about >> the NT filesystem. I'll see if I can track it down. > > NTFS internals, from O'Reilly and Associates. > > It should include doc on how to write to the FS; I can check > tomorrow. Hey!!! That's a different book... I was referring to the Microsoft Press one... Please do check it out Eivind... --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 12:32:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA04252 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:32:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04247 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:32:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zwuBv-0000id-00; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:32:04 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA01825; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:31:31 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09998; Sun, 3 Jan 99 20:31:28 GMT Message-Id: <368FD3B7.81684FCC@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:31:51 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Sue Blake Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > > Another good point. I think there is a lot of active development going > > on though as the versions have moved form 0.6 to 0.9 in pretty rapid > > succession ( the only reason that it's taken me this long to get round > > to trying it is that all previous versions I d/l'd gunzip complained > > were corrupt). > > Heh, he was a little overzealous whenever I reported back bugs... But I have > to say, it was pretty stable from start... I dunno how stable it needs to be > before one could submit it for a commit. > Jeez, how many hours a day does this guy spend hacking?. I got an e-mail from him saying that there were some new mods, checked his Website and it's now at v0.11beta!. Problem was I d/l'd it, re-built, but now I get an error: ntfs_procfixups: magic doesn't match: 18823e50 != 58444e49 I haven't touched the NTFS partition (i.e not booted NT :-), since trying 0.9beta). I e-mailed Semen and am waiting for a reply. Still, it's a great asset to FreeBSD and I'm going to keep up to date with developments. > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, > asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... > Network/Security Specialist > BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 12:54:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA06746 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:54:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06741; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:54:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zwuX1-0005qk-00; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:53:53 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA01853; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:53:19 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10055; Sun, 3 Jan 99 20:53:15 GMT Message-Id: <368FD8D2.958F9739@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 20:53:38 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Nickelsen Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-uk-users Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > At 14:28 +0100 02.01.1999, Mark Ovens wrote on freebsd-chat: > > >The driver, whilst working fine, is somewhat inconsistent in it's > >use of long and short (8.3) filenames, e.g. ls on my system lists > >both ``PROGRA~1'' and ``Program Files'' in the (NTFS) root dir. I > >can ``cd'' to either and the ``pwd'' returns ``/ntfs/Program Files'' > >in both cases. > > Isn't this exactly how it should be? Thinking in Unix terms, both the > long and the short name are links to the same object, so if you cd to > a directory you end up in the same directory regardless which link you > use. Other than a Unix directory, though, it has not a single name, > but two, but you want to know the long name. > But the long and short names aren't _really_ links, there just a quick and _very_ dirty fix to allow M$ to persist woth their absession with providing backward compatibility with old 16-bit world. I had an e-mail from Semen to say that long filenames only are now the default andoptions have been added to allow both to be displayed (-a) and to make it case-insensitive (-i). How the hell can you have a filesystem that retains case but is case-insensitive??? > Greetings, Juergen. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use > > iQA/AwUBNo6yrvxneYZkCUPbEQJMcQCg70n4oZl7Gvs58Bf5Kghw9bpYqPUAn2Ra > AwHE1CD1LegNYV1E2EnYIwIS > =n953 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 13:16:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08644 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:16:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (baerenklau.de.freebsd.org [195.185.195.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08624; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:16:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by baerenklau.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id WAA08257; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:16:21 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wosch@panke.de.freebsd.org) Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01777; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:01:17 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from wosch) Message-ID: <19990103220116.A1769@panke.de.freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:01:16 +0100 From: Wolfram Schneider To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Grow of the FreeBSD mailing list traffic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Year Size E-Mails 1994 2 MB 758 1995 121 MB 58,079 1996 192 MB 85,428 1997 231 MB 98,264 1998 393 MB 160,988 ---------------------- all 938 MB 403,517 -- Wolfram Schneider http://freebsd.org/~w/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 14:26:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15031 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:26:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15017 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:26:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zwvyM-0003WU-00; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:26:10 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA01873; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:25:35 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10174; Sun, 3 Jan 99 22:25:31 GMT Message-Id: <368FEE74.35AE3201@uk.radan.com> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:25:56 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai Cc: Eivind Eklund , chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Sue Blake Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > > On 03-Jan-99 Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 08:23:42PM +0000, Mark Ovens wrote: > >> Sue Blake wrote: > >> > > >> > On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 03:19:57PM +0100, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: > >> > > On 02-Jan-99 Mark Ovens wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Yeah, but both he and I never found any documentation regarding > >> > > writing to NTFS drives since MS is reluctant to hand out specs. > >> > > >> > >> I'm sure I've seen a book (by Microsoft Press IIRC) that is all about > >> the NT filesystem. I'll see if I can track it down. > > > > NTFS internals, from O'Reilly and Associates. > > > > It should include doc on how to write to the FS; I can check > > tomorrow. > > Hey!!! That's a different book... I was referring to the Microsoft Press > one... Please do check it out Eivind... > Go to http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wininternals/ > --- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, > asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... > Network/Security Specialist > BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 18:40:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11049 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:40:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dt087nac.san.rr.com (dt087nac.san.rr.com [24.94.19.172]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11038 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by dt087nac.san.rr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15102; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:40:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Studded@gorean.org) Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:40:21 -0800 (PST) From: Studded X-Sender: doug@dt087nac.san.rr.com To: Wolfram Schneider cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Grow of the FreeBSD mailing list traffic In-Reply-To: <19990103220116.A1769@panke.de.freebsd.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > Year Size E-Mails > > 1994 2 MB 758 > 1995 121 MB 58,079 > 1996 192 MB 85,428 > 1997 231 MB 98,264 > 1998 393 MB 160,988 > ---------------------- > all 938 MB 403,517 You know, I actually find this comforting. I like knowing it's not just my imagination that we're getting way more freakin' mail than we used to. :) Thanks Wolfram, Doug -- *** Chief Operations Officer, DALnet IRC network *** Like desperadoes waiting for a train . . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jan 3 22:27:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA01214 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:27:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA01208 for ; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:27:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.65]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA55A4; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 07:27:22 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 07:34:34 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Studded Subject: Re: Grow of the FreeBSD mailing list traffic Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Wolfram Schneider Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Jan-99 Studded wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jan 1999, Wolfram Schneider wrote: > >> Year Size E-Mails >> >> 1994 2 MB 758 >> 1995 121 MB 58,079 >> 1996 192 MB 85,428 >> 1997 231 MB 98,264 >> 1998 393 MB 160,988 >> ---------------------- >> all 938 MB 403,517 > > You know, I actually find this comforting. I like knowing it's not > just my imagination that we're getting way more freakin' mail than we used > to. :) True, and an increase of misplaced posts to doc and bugs =\ I think people associate doc with the LDP (linux Documentation Project) and thus think it's a newbie question list? --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 00:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA17507 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:52:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cia.com.au (mail.cia.net.au [203.17.36.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA17495 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 00:52:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from alastair@cia.com.au) Received: (qmail 27218 invoked from network); 4 Jan 1999 08:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cuba) (203.28.48.79) by cia.com.au with SMTP; 4 Jan 1999 08:51:48 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990104194856.00c3b320@mail.cia.com.au> X-Sender: alastair@mail.cia.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:56:04 +1100 To: Mark Ovens From: Alastair Rankine Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <368E804E.3B8FA4D9@uk.radan.com> References: <368E1EFB.918A2BF7@uk.radan.com> <19990103014110.34980@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 20:23 2/01/99 +0000, you wrote: >I'm sure I've seen a book (by Microsoft Press IIRC) that is all about >the NT filesystem. I'll see if I can track it down. Good luck, it's out of print AFAIK. However, if you can track it down anyway, it's by Helen Custer and the magic number is ISBN 1-55615-660-X. At 88 pages, it's hardly worth the effort. You may be better off with Inside Windows NT, 2nd edition by David Solomon. ISBN 1-57231-677-2. The NTFS chapter is based on, and seems mostly identical to, Custer's book. It's also a pretty good book for knowing thine enemy's internals. Also, I think the O'Reilly book is mostly about writing NT file system drivers than NTFS itself. -- [ Alastair Rankine ] [ mailto:alastair@cia.com.au ] [ http://www.cia.com.au/alastair ] [ pgp5 64E4 B67C D2B7 EEC4 63C9 AA74 F63A 9AD9 E44B 21C7 ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 10:05:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA13403 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:05:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca [207.181.89.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13398 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:05:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca) Received: (from taob@localhost) by tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA03441; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:04:51 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:04:51 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao X-Sender: taob@tor-dev1.nbc.netcom.ca To: FREEBSD-CHAT Subject: ``Linux' success is remarkable, but nothing is guaranteed'' Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Good, reasoned and clued article about why Linux is grabbing the spotlight now, and what needs to be done to ensure that Linux (and FreeBSD and UNIX in general) doesn't get squashed by Microsoft once free of the DOJ's chains... http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/04/linux99.idg/ -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@risc.org) "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 11:04:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA19332 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:04:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19259 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:03:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from asmodai@wxs.nl) Received: from daemon.ninth-circle.org ([195.121.56.44]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3BE7; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:03:25 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:10:42 +0100 (CET) Organization: Ninth Circle Enterprises From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai To: Brian Tao Subject: RE: ``Linux' success is remarkable, but nothing is guaranteed'' Cc: FREEBSD-CHAT Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 04-Jan-99 Brian Tao wrote: > Good, reasoned and clued article about why Linux is grabbing the > spotlight now, and what needs to be done to ensure that Linux (and > FreeBSD and UNIX in general) doesn't get squashed by Microsoft once > free of the DOJ's chains... Hmmm, when one reads the article and believes everything that's in it, we should be happy that Linux gets the spotlight instead of one of the BSD's... Yet another thought to add to the, growing, pile ;) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven A veil of smoke is what I am, asmodai(at)wxs.nl I wait and I wait... Network/Security Specialist BSD & picoBSD: The Power to Serve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 13:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA06927 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:24:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06917 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:24:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00525; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901042117.NAA00525@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 22:11:26 +0100." <15919.915484286@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:17:15 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org moved to -chat... > >So killing the power would destroy the computer. That is one helluva > >denial of service attack. Screw nestea2 and the script kiddies, all I need > >is a pair of bolt cutters. > > Well, to some people that is better than them getting access to > the data. Usually though, you'll also need a very large crane to > lift the thing and the concrete foundation it is bolted onto to > get to the wires... Crap. Go out into the street and cut them there. Use thermite on the junction box. Bribe a local supply company technician to arrange an "outage". Bulldoze through the corner of the building and push the entire thing into the back of a dump truck (this is how you steal an ATM). -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 13:28:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07508 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:28:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07477 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:28:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16035; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:26:39 +0100 (CET) To: Mike Smith cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:17:15 PST." <199901042117.NAA00525@dingo.cdrom.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 22:26:39 +0100 Message-ID: <16033.915485199@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <199901042117.NAA00525@dingo.cdrom.com>, Mike Smith writes: > >moved to -chat... > >> >So killing the power would destroy the computer. That is one helluva >> >denial of service attack. Screw nestea2 and the script kiddies, all I need >> >is a pair of bolt cutters. >> >> Well, to some people that is better than them getting access to >> the data. Usually though, you'll also need a very large crane to >> lift the thing and the concrete foundation it is bolted onto to >> get to the wires... > >Crap. Go out into the street and cut them there. Use thermite on the >junction box. Bribe a local supply company technician to arrange an >"outage". Bulldoze through the corner of the building and push >the entire thing into the back of a dump truck (this is how you steal >an ATM). Sure, go for it. But it still doesn't reveal any data... -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 13:35:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08374 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:35:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08366 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:35:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4038.ime.net [209.90.195.48]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23008; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:29:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990104162836.00a717f0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:29:02 -0500 To: Mike Smith , Poul-Henning Kamp From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901042117.NAA00525@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:17 PM 1/4/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >moved to -chat... > >> >So killing the power would destroy the computer. That is one helluva >> >denial of service attack. Screw nestea2 and the script kiddies, all I need >> >is a pair of bolt cutters. >> >> Well, to some people that is better than them getting access to >> the data. Usually though, you'll also need a very large crane to >> lift the thing and the concrete foundation it is bolted onto to >> get to the wires... > >Crap. Go out into the street and cut them there. Use thermite on the >junction box. Bribe a local supply company technician to arrange an >"outage". Bulldoze through the corner of the building and push >the entire thing into the back of a dump truck (this is how you steal >an ATM). I'd be interested where you came up with this one.. and I'm also wondering if I should be worried.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 13:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08836 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:39:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08831 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:39:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00644; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:36:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901042136.NAA00644@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:29:02 EST." <4.1.19990104162836.00a717f0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 13:36:03 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >Crap. Go out into the street and cut them there. Use thermite on the > >junction box. Bribe a local supply company technician to arrange an > >"outage". Bulldoze through the corner of the building and push > >the entire thing into the back of a dump truck (this is how you steal > >an ATM). > > I'd be interested where you came up with this one.. and I'm also wondering > if I should be worried.. Which, the last one? It's been done in .au several times; the one where I first heard about it they took a machine that'd just been loaded for a long weekend (about AUD$800,000). They hadn't planned properly for getting it open though; the dynamited remains were found a few weeks later, with all of the cash destroyed. I believe that in at least several other cases, the machine was successfully opened and looted; there's also a legendary story about a couple of thieves with one of the indoor-style machines being stopped and defected for "saggy suspension" in their ute. The officer didn't notice the ATM, or at least didn't recognise it. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 14:27:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA14425 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:27:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14419 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:26:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4038.ime.net [209.90.195.48]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA08594; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:26:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990104172528.00adaaa0@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:26:21 -0500 To: Mike Smith From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199901042136.NAA00644@dingo.cdrom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:36 PM 1/4/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: >Which, the last one? It's been done in .au several times; the one where >I first heard about it they took a machine that'd just been loaded for a >long weekend (about AUD$800,000). They hadn't planned properly for >getting it open though; the dynamited remains were found a few weeks >later, with all of the cash destroyed. > >I believe that in at least several other cases, the machine was >successfully opened and looted; there's also a legendary story about a >couple of thieves with one of the indoor-style machines being stopped >and defected for "saggy suspension" in their ute. The officer didn't >notice the ATM, or at least didn't recognise it. Very intriguing.. You'd think more people would do that in the lush countryside hole of Maine, USA. As it goes, I can't say I've heard of something like that happening :-) --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 14:30:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA15064 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:30:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (dingo.cdrom.com [204.216.28.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA15059 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:30:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Received: from dingo.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by dingo.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA00894; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:27:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@dingo.cdrom.com) Message-Id: <199901042227.OAA00894@dingo.cdrom.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Drew Baxter cc: Mike Smith , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: physical security (was Re: New boot blocks for serial console ... ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 17:26:21 EST." <4.1.19990104172528.00adaaa0@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:27:10 -0800 From: Mike Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > At 01:36 PM 1/4/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote: > >Which, the last one? It's been done in .au several times; the one where > >I first heard about it they took a machine that'd just been loaded for a > >long weekend (about AUD$800,000). They hadn't planned properly for > >getting it open though; the dynamited remains were found a few weeks > >later, with all of the cash destroyed. > > > >I believe that in at least several other cases, the machine was > >successfully opened and looted; there's also a legendary story about a > >couple of thieves with one of the indoor-style machines being stopped > >and defected for "saggy suspension" in their ute. The officer didn't > >notice the ATM, or at least didn't recognise it. > > Very intriguing.. You'd think more people would do that in the lush > countryside hole of Maine, USA. As it goes, I can't say I've heard of > something like that happening :-) Financial institutions tend to be fairly, er, reticent when it comes to talking about this sort of thing, for obvious reasons. -- \\ Sometimes you're ahead, \\ Mike Smith \\ sometimes you're behind. \\ mike@smith.net.au \\ The race is long, and in the \\ msmith@freebsd.org \\ end it's only with yourself. \\ msmith@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 16:47:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA02426 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:47:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (pinsoft.internet.co.nz [202.37.141.181]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02420 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 16:46:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jonc@pinnacle.co.nz) Received: from kiwi.pinnacle.co.nz (kiwi.pinnacle.co.nz [202.37.163.2]) by kakapo.pinnacle.co.nz (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA11534 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:45:09 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:45:09 +1300 (NZDT) From: Jonathan Chen To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Sony Playstations.. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org One of the nice new toys I got over Christmas was a Sony Playstation, and it's made me sit in front of the TV for a lot longer than I've ever been in a *LONG* time (don't watch that much TV ...). However, the game CD's for the playstation are all black on the underside! This doesn't look like a std CD-reader system at all, does anyone here know what sort of reader it is? And the graphics. The graphics are impressive (I love 'em on `Final Fantasy VII'). There doesn't seem to be any specs on the short manual that came with the system; anyone here know what sort of CPU they run on? Cheers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Chen | Opportunites are seldom labeled --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 17:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA05631 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:06:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.enteract.com (thor.enteract.com [207.229.143.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA05626 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: (qmail 15982 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 01:06:24 -0000 Received: from adam.enteract.com (jrs@206.54.252.1) by thor.enteract.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 01:06:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 19:06:24 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: Jonathan Chen cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > One of the nice new toys I got over Christmas was a Sony Playstation, > and it's made me sit in front of the TV for a lot longer than I've > ever been in a *LONG* time (don't watch that much TV ...). > However, the game CD's for the playstation are all black on the > underside! This doesn't look like a std CD-reader system at all, does > anyone here know what sort of reader it is? Actually it is a standard reader...However they adjust it so that it looks for the black stuff on the under side. You can get around this by buying and installing a modchip and cdr all of your games (so I've heard). > And the graphics. The graphics are impressive (I love 'em on `Final > Fantasy VII'). There doesn't seem to be any specs on the short manual > that came with the system; anyone here know what sort of CPU they run > on? Don't quote me but I believe its a motorola... JOHN To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 17:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06349 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:11:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06339 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 17:11:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4017.ime.net [209.90.195.27]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA22094; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:11:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990104200836.00af3690@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:11:00 -0500 To: John Sconiers , Jonathan Chen From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:06 PM 1/4/99 -0600, John Sconiers wrote: >> One of the nice new toys I got over Christmas was a Sony Playstation, >> and it's made me sit in front of the TV for a lot longer than I've >> ever been in a *LONG* time (don't watch that much TV ...). >> However, the game CD's for the playstation are all black on the >> underside! This doesn't look like a std CD-reader system at all, does >> anyone here know what sort of reader it is? > >Actually it is a standard reader...However they adjust it so that it looks >for the black stuff on the under side. You can get around this by buying >and installing a modchip and cdr all of your games (so I've heard). > >> And the graphics. The graphics are impressive (I love 'em on `Final >> Fantasy VII'). There doesn't seem to be any specs on the short manual >> that came with the system; anyone here know what sort of CPU they run >> on? > > >Don't quote me but I believe its a motorola... > >JOHN > Not quite.. the black underside is just to demonstrate that it is an AUTHENTIC Playstation CD. What Sony does is uses modified CD-Writers that write into normally unaddressable portions of the CD. The Playstation looks for these 'spare blocks' and determines if it is a real CD or not. the BLACK bottom is just so the consumer is aware that it is indeed a true Sony Authorized Playstation CD. The modchip modifies the ROM looking for this protection scheme. As it goes, there is no known way to EXACTLY duplicate the CDs (aside from the obvious), so what the modchip does is causes the ROM to ignore if the CD is legit or not, as well as it ignores the country code, so that you can play JAP games on a USA console, etc. The modchips are something around 15 dollars.. you can get them from www.modchip.com, if I recall. However Datel Electronics (UK) got nailed pretty hard for selling them if I remember right. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 18:04:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA11529 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:04:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11524 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:04:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-72.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.72]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA18992 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:03:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA32848 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:03:42 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-reply-to: Message from John Sconiers of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:06:24 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:03:42 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John Sconiers writes: > > And the graphics. The graphics are impressive (I love 'em on `Final > > Fantasy VII'). There doesn't seem to be any specs on the short manual > > that came with the system; anyone here know what sort of CPU they run > > on? > > > Don't quote me but I believe its a motorola... Wasn't somebody doing a FreeBSD port to these things? :-) Not so sure, but either the Sony or Nintendo is MIPS based with heavy SGI design consulting. Have been thinking of purchasing such a toy myself as I'm getting to like playing the flight simulator that ships with my SGI O2 at work. So the choice is a dedicated box to hook to my TV, or software for this box (meaning I won't be collecting any meaningful FreeBSD uptime statistics). Suggestions? Comments? Would be interested in a good flight simulator. Jet planes don't impress me. Would also like a car/driving simulation but not one with "NASCAR". God gave cars 4 wheel braking because he wants them to accelerate, shift, turn left *and* right, and brake, and that sounds good to me. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 18:13:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12662 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:13:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12657 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:13:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4017.ime.net [209.90.195.27]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA08606; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:13:28 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990104210613.00af5830@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:13:19 -0500 To: David Kelly , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-Reply-To: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 08:03 PM 1/4/99 -0600, David Kelly wrote: > >Wasn't somebody doing a FreeBSD port to these things? :-) > >Not so sure, but either the Sony or Nintendo is MIPS based with heavy >SGI design consulting. Sony Playstation is an R3000 if I remember right.. the Nintendo 64 uses SGI chipsets. They were delayed in production because of a low availability of the chips at the time. Aparantely the cost of the cartridges still suffers because of this.. >Have been thinking of purchasing such a toy myself as I'm getting to >like playing the flight simulator that ships with my SGI O2 at work. So >the choice is a dedicated box to hook to my TV, or software for this box >(meaning I won't be collecting any meaningful FreeBSD uptime >statistics). Emulation is kinda neat. Although the Playstation Emulator (currently for Win*, but it'll get ported when it gets improved I'd imagine) is pretty impressive so far. I get 28 fps under a certain game, but they say this will improve over time. Some games even have full emulation as of now. Nintendo (8-bit), Super Nintendo (16-bit), TurboGrafx (16-bit (really it's 2 Z80's)), Gameboy, Game Gear/Master System, Genesis, and many others are currently emulated for FreeBSD, Win*, Mac, and other Unix flavors (namely Linux). That's always something to consider I figure. If I remember right, fms's NES emulator is in the ports tree. I can't really think of a flight sim for 8-bit NES though.. I could ask I figure.. >Suggestions? Comments? Would be interested in a good flight simulator. >Jet planes don't impress me. Would also like a car/driving simulation >but not one with "NASCAR". God gave cars 4 wheel braking because he >wants them to accelerate, shift, turn left *and* right, and brake, and >that sounds good to me. Hmm Need for Speed 3 isn't too bad. Although I must say NFS II SE was a significantly better game as far as controls. Either of these are available for Playstation, but I use them under that sad sad world of Windows. As far as Jet Planes go.. hmm.. Last time I used one was like Flight Simulator 1 on a Mac Plus. :-). Although, I gotta say things like Aces over the Pacific, Aces over Europe, F117A Strike Eagle, MS Flight Sim.. There's a lot, many of them are available for emulated consoles for those who want to avoid Win*.. Of course anything emulated has potential legal remifications, but what can I say.. I'm a rebel or something. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 18:40:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA15028 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:40:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA15017 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:40:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from 209-20-1-35.dialin.interlog.com (209-20-1-35.dialin.interlog.com [209.20.1.35]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA17534; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:39:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:35:52 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith X-Sender: paulg@sun.griffith.ca To: Jonathan Chen cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hey I just got one for Christmas. Can't wait to pickup a copy of Tekken 3. Here are some specs: MIPS R3000A 32bit RISC Processor Clock - 33.8688 Mhz @ about 30 MIPS Instruction Cache 4KB Data Cache 1KB BUS 132MB/sec That bus speeds looks close to 64bit PCI speeds (??) Take a look at www.playstation.com for more info. --- Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Jan 4 23:58:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13708 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ska.bsn (d211.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.9.83]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13699 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 23:58:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrn@zeta.org.au) Received: (from andy@localhost) by ska.bsn (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01777; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from atrn) Message-ID: <19990105190340.A1510@ska.bsn> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:03:40 +1100 From: Andy Newman To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: physical security References: <4.1.19990104162836.00a717f0@genesis.ispace.com> <199901042136.NAA00644@dingo.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91i In-Reply-To: <199901042136.NAA00644@dingo.cdrom.com>; from Mike Smith on Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 01:36:03PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org And to follow on from Mike there has been at least one case in .au (oh, I miss my .oz) of fake ATM machines being installed in a mall. Another physical access story is the infamous "take down the teller machine network on a Friday afternoon" caper of a few years ago. A disgruntled telecoms employee took a chainsaw to a few key cables around the city (Sydney) and left me with no cash for an entire weekend. Bastard! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 01:30:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id BAA21068 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:30:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ska.bsn (d224.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.9.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA20975 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 01:29:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrn@zeta.org.au) From: atrn@zeta.org.au Received: (from andy@localhost) by ska.bsn (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA01811 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:18:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from atrn) Message-Id: <199901050818.TAA01811@ska.bsn> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:18:07 +1100 (EST) Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990104210613.00af5830@genesis.ispace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Sony Playstation is an R3000 if I remember right.. the Nintendo 64 uses SGI > chipsets. The Playstation was designed by LSI Logic in Japan so it probably uses a MIPS core (R3000) as LSI Logic like selling those. The N64 is a R4000 derivative with a special purpose SGI-developed graphics/everything else accelerator. -- If it ain't broke, break it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 04:40:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA10681 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:40:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from stade.demon.co.uk (stade.demon.co.uk [158.152.29.164]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA10676 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:40:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from aw1@stade.co.uk) Received: (from aw1@localhost) by stade.demon.co.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA88459 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:35:02 GMT (envelope-from aw1) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:35:02 +0000 From: Adrian Wontroba To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. Message-ID: <19990105123502.D84950@titus.stade.co.uk> Reply-To: aw1@stade.co.uk References: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net>; from David Kelly on Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:03:42PM -0600 Organization: Stade Computers Ltd, UK X-Phone: +(44) 121 681 6677 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:03:42PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > Wasn't somebody doing a FreeBSD port to these things? :-) I've heard a rumour that one UK academic is contemplating building a very cheap supercomputer with a collection of playstations. I've no idea what OS is contemplated. -- Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 04:59:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA12657 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:59:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA12652 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:59:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zxW4R-0001bL-00; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:58:52 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA00705; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:58:21 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (gppsun4) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07507; Tue, 5 Jan 99 12:58:18 GMT Message-Id: <36920C64.54215841@uk.radan.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 12:58:12 +0000 From: Mark Ovens Organization: Radan Computational Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: aw1@stade.co.uk Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. References: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19990105123502.D84950@titus.stade.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Adrian Wontroba wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:03:42PM -0600, David Kelly wrote: > > Wasn't somebody doing a FreeBSD port to these things? :-) > > I've heard a rumour that one UK academic is contemplating building a > very cheap supercomputer with a collection of playstations. I've no > idea what OS is contemplated. > Talking about UK supercomputers. Whatever happened to the Inmos Transputer of the '80's?. I remember seeing one of these parallel processing devices at an exhibition in the mid-80's. It was displaying in real-time a Newton's Cradle, photo-realistically rendered. This at the time when a 386 was the top of the range PC. > -- > Adrian Wontroba, Stade Computers Limited. phone: (+44) 121 681 6677 > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd. Bath, Avon, England. Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 05:05:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA13025 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 05:05:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk (fw128.nhs.uk [194.6.81.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA13020 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 05:05:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rich@ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk) Received: by post.ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:04:39 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Wood, Richard" To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: RE: Sony Playstations.. Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:04:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 05 January 1999 12:58, Mark Ovens[SMTP:marko@uk.radan.com] wrote: > Talking about UK supercomputers. Whatever happened to the Inmos > Transputer of the '80's?. A quick search on "inmos transputer" will turn up such pages as http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/transputer.html INMOS became SGS-Thompson. Rich -- Rich Wood Systems Manager, Royal United Hospital, Bath. rich@ruh-bath.swest.nhs.uk To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 09:27:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA09478 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:27:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (hsv1-234.airnet.net [207.242.81.234]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA09359 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 09:25:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@airnet.net) Received: from airnet.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ninbox.freebsd.nws.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02318 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:24:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36924AB9.33144BCA@airnet.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 11:24:09 -0600 From: Kris Kirby Organization: Absolutely None! X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: PCEMU - Y2K Compiliant? :-) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I just got to thinking (oww, that hurt): Is PCEMU Y2K compliant? -- Kris Kirby UAH Mail UAH CS Home WWW ------------------------------------------- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 13:11:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA08853 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from rachel (mail.glenatl.glenayre.com [157.230.160.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA08828 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Jerry.Hicks@glenayre.com) Received: from jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com by rachel (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA18337; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:01:47 -0500 Received: from glenayre.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhicks.glenatl.glenayre.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02004 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:02:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36927DE7.D3A7B65C@glenayre.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 16:02:31 -0500 From: Jerry Hicks Reply-To: jerry.hicks@glenayre.com Organization: Glenayre Electronics, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. References: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> <19990105123502.D84950@titus.stade.co.uk> <36920C64.54215841@uk.radan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mark Ovens wrote: > > Talking about UK supercomputers. Whatever happened to the Inmos > Transputer of the '80's?. I remember seeing one of these parallel > processing devices at an exhibition in the mid-80's. It was displaying > in real-time a Newton's Cradle, photo-realistically rendered. This at > the time when a 386 was the top of the range PC. > Last design I saw using Transputers was a Siemens SS7 protocol analyzer. FreeBSD just lost a driver for a Transputer board in the recent culling of "dead" software from the repo. Cheers, Jerry Hicks wghicks@bellsouth.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 13:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11691 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:31:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ska.bsn (d228.syd2.zeta.org.au [203.26.9.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11670 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:31:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from atrn@zeta.org.au) From: atrn@zeta.org.au Received: (from andy@localhost) by ska.bsn (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA02706 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:36:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from atrn) Message-Id: <199901052136.IAA02706@ska.bsn> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:36:13 +1100 (EST) Subject: RE: Sony Playstations.. To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 5 Jan, Wood, Richard wrote: > On 05 January 1999 12:58, Mark Ovens[SMTP:marko@uk.radan.com] wrote: >> Talking about UK supercomputers. Whatever happened to the Inmos >> Transputer of the '80's?. > > A quick search on "inmos transputer" will turn up such pages as > > http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/transputer.html > > INMOS became SGS-Thompson. And transputers have recently been withdrawn from the market. Many years ago I worked for a company building a transputer based graphics system (I wrote the OS and job farming system we used for accelerating our ray tracer). It was an interesting device. Occam (and CSP) are also good but alef and limbo (ref. Plan 9 + Inferno) do a better job of making the CSP-style programming practical. -- If it ain't broke, break it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 13:37:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA13005 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:37:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12975 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:37:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk) Received: from [158.152.46.40] (helo=ragnet.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zxe9d-0003kH-00; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:36:46 +0000 Received: from dmlb by ragnet.demon.co.uk with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0zxdvq-0000kI-00; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <36927DE7.D3A7B65C@glenayre.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 21:22:30 -0000 (GMT) From: Duncan Barclay To: jerry.hicks@glenayre.com Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 05-Jan-99 Jerry Hicks wrote: > Mark Ovens wrote: >> >> Talking about UK supercomputers. Whatever happened to the Inmos >> Transputer of the '80's?. I remember seeing one of these parallel >> processing devices at an exhibition in the mid-80's. It was displaying >> in real-time a Newton's Cradle, photo-realistically rendered. This at >> the time when a 386 was the top of the range PC. >> > > Last design I saw using Transputers was a Siemens SS7 protocol analyzer. > > FreeBSD just lost a driver for a Transputer board in the recent culling > of "dead" software from the repo. > > Cheers, > Just before Christmas I managed to get SPOC, the Southampton Portable Occam Compilier to run under FreeBSD. SPOC is a Occam to C translator and it actually works. I managed to compile a fair ammount of my old code. There are holes though. It even does parallel execution of code right (PAR blocks), all in a single process and without any form of thread library. It uses a select() loop. Duncan --- ________________________________________________________________________ Duncan Barclay | God smiles upon the little children, dmlb@ragnet.demon.co.uk | the alcoholics, and the permanently stoned. ________________________________________________________________________ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 14:24:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA19425 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:20:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA19404 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:20:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kojak@i.am) Received: (qmail 15361 invoked from network); 5 Jan 1999 22:19:45 -0000 Received: from userc784.uk.uudial.com (HELO kojak) (194.69.99.242) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 1999 22:19:45 -0000 Message-ID: <36913DFD.41C67EA6@i.am> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 22:17:33 +0000 From: Tony Alexander X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.0-RELEASE i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jonathan Chen CC: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > And the graphics. The graphics are impressive (I love 'em on `Final > Fantasy VII'). There doesn't seem to be any specs on the short manual > that came with the system; anyone here know what sort of CPU they run > on? Indeed the playstation uses a 32-bit RISC R3000 (33MHz) with 2 caches has 2MB of main memory (1MB of graphics memory) and super fast graphics processing unit. I'm also a proud owner of a 'net yaroze development system' which is basically a black playstation with a serial cable and development kit. If you ever considered hacking your own games then I recommend one of these beasts although I think Sony have suspended distributing these for the moment (see http://www.netyaroze.com/ for details). There are some limitations on how you distribute your source but it is like a small open source community (we have our own members site). They even use the Gnu 'c' development tools (ported to windows though) but I'm trying to get it working under FreeBSD. I've managed to hack to the playstation using 'cu' but unable to transfer files atm. Its a shame but the Risc processors seem to be at risk (sorry *wink*) because SGI have decided to bring out some new boxes using the intel processors and possibly dropping RISC altogether. I also read somewhere that Intel bought up the alpha risc processors *sniffle*. -Tony To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 14:56:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA25739 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:56:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25734 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:56:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id RAA06190; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:55:52 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19990105175551.A6163@tidalwave.net> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:55:51 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: Tony Alexander , Jonathan Chen Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <36913DFD.41C67EA6@i.am> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36913DFD.41C67EA6@i.am>; from Tony Alexander on Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 10:17:33PM +0000 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 10:17:33PM +0000, Tony Alexander wrote: > processors and possibly dropping RISC altogether. I also read somewhere > that Intel bought up the alpha risc processors *sniffle*. Intel did buy Digital Semiconductor, but with a twist: Intel only has _manufacture_ rights for Alpha -- Compaq owns the design and name, by way of the DEC merger last year. -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet)| | lcremean@tidalwave.net| http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 15:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA28661 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:16:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28447 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:15:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA10056; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:44:13 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA82252; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:44:20 +1030 (CST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:44:20 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Jonathan Smith Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Read this, and use appropriately, one and all Message-ID: <19990106094420.Z78349@freebie.lemis.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Jonathan Smith on Tue, Jan 05, 1999 at 05:33:56PM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] On Tuesday, 5 January 1999 at 17:33:56 -0500, Jonathan Smith wrote: > > NOTICE TO BULK EMAILER(S): Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, > Subchapter II, 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to this > address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US > Dollars. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. > > > > > > "If kisses could kill (gulp), that one would have flattened several small > towns...." > Vir Cotto, Babylon 5 > > "Tu was du willst." > Die Unendliche Geschichte, von Michael Ende > > "Do as you wish." > The Neverending Story, by Michael Ende > > The Microsoft Soloution, "newfs && make reinstall" > > Jon C. Smith (765)49-48628 PHYS 31h > jonsmith@fourier.physics.purdue.edu > 1396 Physics Building, West lafayette > Purdue Univesity, Indiana 47906-1396 I can't see anything relating to -current here. In fact, all I see is the longest .sig I've ever seen. So what should I read? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 15:19:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA29240 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29235 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:19:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18220 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:19:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:19:26 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Mailing List Spam [ wasRe: Read this, and use appropriately...] In-Reply-To: <19990106094420.Z78349@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org If I configure my system to bounce mailling list messages from spammers, how would that likely affect the systems (and my subscriptions?) Should I simply add a "bit bucket" option to Bouncer to accept the mail and dump it to nowhere instead of bouncing it? On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > [moved to -chat] > > On Tuesday, 5 January 1999 at 17:33:56 -0500, Jonathan Smith wrote: > > > > NOTICE TO BULK EMAILER(S): Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, > > Subchapter II, 227, any and all unsolicited commercial e-mail sent to this > > address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US > > Dollars. E-Mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. > > > > > > > > > > > > "If kisses could kill (gulp), that one would have flattened several small > > towns...." > > Vir Cotto, Babylon 5 > > > > "Tu was du willst." > > Die Unendliche Geschichte, von Michael Ende > > > > "Do as you wish." > > The Neverending Story, by Michael Ende > > > > The Microsoft Soloution, "newfs && make reinstall" > > > > Jon C. Smith (765)49-48628 PHYS 31h > > jonsmith@fourier.physics.purdue.edu > > 1396 Physics Building, West lafayette > > Purdue Univesity, Indiana 47906-1396 > > I can't see anything relating to -current here. In fact, all I see is > the longest .sig I've ever seen. So what should I read? > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers > finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 15:36:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02150 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:36:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (st-lcremean.tidalwave.net [208.213.203.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02142 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:36:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lee@st-lcremean.tidalwave.net) Received: (from lee@localhost) by st-lcremean.tidalwave.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) id SAA06371; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:36:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from lee) Message-ID: <19990105183607.A6277@tidalwave.net> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:36:07 -0500 From: Lee Cremeans To: Licia , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mailing List Spam [ wasRe: Read this, and use appropriately...] Reply-To: lcremean@tidalwave.net References: <19990106094420.Z78349@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Licia on Tue, Jan 05, 1999 at 05:19:26PM -0600 X-OS: FreeBSD 3.0-CURRENT X-Evil: microsoft.com Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, Jan 05, 1999 at 05:19:26PM -0600, Licia wrote: > > If I configure my system to bounce mailling list messages from spammers, > how would that likely affect the systems (and my subscriptions?) > > Should I simply add a "bit bucket" option to Bouncer to accept the mail and > dump it to nowhere instead of bouncing it? I think we can nip this in the bud at the source. I checked the headers, and the spam is coming from what appears to be a personal account (natch) on Earthlink. The relevant info is here: Received: from htxgxvqm.getmoretraffic.com (CBL-panamerican.hs.earthlink.net +[208.233.115.216]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20058 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:26:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from getmoretraffic@getmoretraffic.com) -- +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet)| | lcremean@tidalwave.net| http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 15:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02933 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:44:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA02884 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 15:44:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA18304; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:43:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:43:31 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: lcremean@tidalwave.net cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mailing List Spam [ wasRe: Read this, and use appropriately...] In-Reply-To: <19990105183607.A6277@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It's possible to stop it like that yes, but I am specifically looking for ways I can take a proactive step in stopping spam from getting through on a mailing list. I think more and more spammers are using that as a way to bypass the traditional spam filtering techniques, and think I need to cut them off (at least on my system and others who may run Bouncer :) ) On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Lee Cremeans wrote: > On Tue, Jan 05, 1999 at 05:19:26PM -0600, Licia wrote: > > > > If I configure my system to bounce mailling list messages from spammers, > > how would that likely affect the systems (and my subscriptions?) > > > > Should I simply add a "bit bucket" option to Bouncer to accept the mail and > > dump it to nowhere instead of bouncing it? > > I think we can nip this in the bud at the source. I checked the headers, and > the spam is coming from what appears to be a personal account (natch) on > Earthlink. The relevant info is here: > > Received: from htxgxvqm.getmoretraffic.com (CBL-panamerican.hs.earthlink.net > +[208.233.115.216]) > by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20058 > for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:26:15 -0800 (PST) > (envelope-from getmoretraffic@getmoretraffic.com) > > > > -- > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | Lee Cremeans -- Manassas, VA, USA (WakkyMouse on DALnet and WTnet)| > | lcremean@tidalwave.net| http://st-lcremean.tidalwave.net/~lee | > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Jan 5 18:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA29509 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:53:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA29503; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA73613; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:52:22 -0800 (PST) To: lcremean@tidalwave.net cc: Licia , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, postmaster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Mailing List Spam [ wasRe: Read this, and use appropriately...] In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:36:07 EST." <19990105183607.A6277@tidalwave.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:52:21 -0800 Message-ID: <73609.915591141@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Received: from htxgxvqm.getmoretraffic.com (CBL-panamerican.hs.earthlink.net > +[208.233.115.216]) Yes, I've already banned *.EARTHLINK.NET from freebsd.org now. It's not the first time we've had a bad spam run-in with them. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 05:13:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id FAA14442 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:13:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from animaniacs.itribe.net (gatekeeper.itribe.net [209.49.144.254]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id FAA14416 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 05:13:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jamie@itribe.net) Received: from localhost (jamie@localhost) by animaniacs.itribe.net (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id IAA11146; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:13:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 08:13:00 -0500 (EST) From: Jamie Bowden To: Tony Alexander cc: Jonathan Chen , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-Reply-To: <36913DFD.41C67EA6@i.am> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Tony Alexander wrote: > Indeed the playstation uses a 32-bit RISC R3000 (33MHz) with 2 caches > has 2MB of main memory (1MB of graphics memory) and super fast graphics > processing unit. I'm also a proud owner of a 'net yaroze development > system' which is basically a black playstation with a serial cable and > development kit. If you ever considered hacking your own games then > I recommend one of these beasts although I think Sony have suspended > distributing these for the moment (see http://www.netyaroze.com/ for > details). There are some limitations on how you distribute your source > but it is like a small open source community (we have our own members > site). They even use the Gnu 'c' development tools (ported to windows > though) but I'm trying to get it working under FreeBSD. I've managed > to hack to the playstation using 'cu' but unable to transfer files atm. > Its a shame but the Risc processors seem to be at risk (sorry *wink*) > because SGI have decided to bring out some new boxes using the intel > processors and possibly dropping RISC altogether. I also read somewhere > that Intel bought up the alpha risc processors *sniffle*. SGI isn't dropping their MIPS based risc machines anytime soon. They claim they'll go merced once it's shipped, and proven it's as fast as intel claims it'll be. Since it will never ship, and based on intel's track record, won't come near the performance they claim prior to release, I don't see SGI dropping MIPS anytime soon. They are building intel based NT boxes as low end graphics workstations. SGI have announced their commitment to Irix and risc based workstations for the forseeable future. This message composed on an R4600 based Indy, running Irix 6.2. Jamie Bowden -- Systems Administrator, iTRiBE.net If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up. But boggle can go. -Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 13:21:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA10208 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:21:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA10191; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:21:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from marko@uk.radan.com) Received: from [158.152.75.22] (helo=uk.radan.com) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 0zy0NS-0000oF-00; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:20:31 +0000 Organisation: Radan Computational Ltd., Bath, UK. Phone: +44-1225-320320 Fax: +44-1225-320311 Received: from beavis.uk.radan.com (beavis [193.114.228.122]) by uk.radan.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA02110; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 21:20:03 GMT Received: from uk.radan.com (rasnt-1) by beavis.uk.radan.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13102; Wed, 6 Jan 99 21:19:59 GMT Message-Id: <3693D200.BC9B54D9@uk.radan.com> Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 21:13:36 +0000 From: Mark Ovens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions , freebsd-chat , freebsd-uk-users Subject: Re: Accessing NTFS partitions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to let you know that Semen Ustimenko has fixed some bugs in the NTFS driver and made some enhancements (it now only lists long names unless the -a option is used). The latest version can be d/l from http://iclub.nsu.ru/~semen/ntfs Enjoy -- Trust the computer industry to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. It was this thinking that caused the problem in the first place. Mark Ovens, CNC Applications Engineer, Radan Computational Ltd Sheet Metal CAD/CAM Solutions mailto:marko@uk.radan.com http://www.radan.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 14:46:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17449 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:46:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17430 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 14:45:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: from outpost.co.nz (b001-m002-p056.wgtn.clear.net.nz [203.167.240.120]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id LAA25193; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:45:25 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199901062245.LAA25193@fep2-orange.clear.net.nz> Received: (qmail 10614 invoked from network); 6 Jan 1999 22:29:24 -0000 Received: from officedonkey.acme.gen.nz (HELO officedonkey) (192.168.1.3) by evil-smelling-bugger.acme.gen.nz with SMTP; 6 Jan 1999 22:29:24 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Craig Harding" Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd To: David Kelly Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:29:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. Reply-to: crh@outpost.co.nz CC: chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <199901050203.UAA32848@nospam.hiwaay.net> References: Message from John Sconiers of "Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:06:24 CST." X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org David Kelly wrote: > Suggestions? Comments? Would be interested in a good flight > simulator. Jet planes don't impress me. Would also like a > car/driving simulation but not one with "NASCAR". God gave cars 4 > wheel braking because he wants them to accelerate, shift, turn left > *and* right, and brake, and that sounds good to me. If you like Military combat flightsims, the Janes productions (Longbow 2, F15, IAF, WWII) are impressive. I'm a rotary wing fan myself, and LB2 with my Saitek X36 Joystick/Throttle combo is mucho fun. I don't have a civilian flight sim at the moment, but unfortunately the standard recommedation is MS Flight Sim. These are all PC products of course, I don't know if you'll get anything particularly realistic on the Playstation As for cars - Colin McCrae rally. I've seen the PC demo and had the Playstation version recommended strongly to me. -- C. -- Craig Harding Head of Postproduction, Outpost Digital Media Ltd "I don't know about God, I just think we're handmade" - Polly To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 15:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA22907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:33:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from o-o.org (o-o.org [207.252.201.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA22899 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 15:33:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from licia@o-o.org) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by o-o.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA23143 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:33:01 -0600 (CST) From: Licia To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: is anyone interested in chrooting logins? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just a quick question, is anyone else interested in being able to chroot specific users when they log in? [ licia@o-o.org ] [ http://www.o-o.org/ ] [ IrcNick : Licia ] [ A happy user of FreeBSD : http://www.freebsd.org/ ] [ Why crawl through windows when you can walk through a door? ] [ This user boycotts all Microsoft products and services ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 16:28:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA29966 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:28:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA29952 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:28:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19017 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:27:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 16:27:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've just put up an alpha release of my GUI admin tool for FreeBSD. I'd appreciate it if some folks could take a look at it and give me some feedback. Bug reports, comments, suggestions, praise, and criticism are all very welcome. :) >From the README: This is a GUI administration tool for FreeBSD, which hopefully will someday soon be something that FreeBSD newbies can use to easily setup, configure, and maintain their system. Currently, it allows root to edit user database, add new users, change user editor preferences (/etc/pw.conf), browse installed packages and delete them, and browse a list of packages to install. There's also a TODO file in the distribution with quick notes on where I want to go with this thing. If you think of something that this should do that isn't on the list, or would like to contribute code or icons (I'm a lousy graphic artist), let me know. Some info and a screenshot can be found at: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~brian/freebsd-admin/ The distribution tarball is at: http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~brian/freebsd-admin/freebsd_admin-0.1.tgz -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 17:02:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA04395 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:02:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04364 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 17:02:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (tnt3-135.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.135]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA10050; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:02:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from nospam.hiwaay.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nospam.hiwaay.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA39818; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 18:18:29 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net) Message-Id: <199901070018.SAA39818@nospam.hiwaay.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: Jamie Bowden cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG From: David Kelly Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-reply-to: Message from Jamie Bowden of "Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:13:00 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 18:18:28 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Jamie Bowden writes: > SGI isn't dropping their MIPS based risc machines anytime soon. They > claim they'll go merced once it's shipped, and proven it's as fast as > intel claims it'll be. Since it will never ship, and based on intel's > track record, won't come near the performance they claim prior to release, > I don't see SGI dropping MIPS anytime soon. They are building intel based > NT boxes as low end graphics workstations. SGI have announced their > commitment to Irix and risc based workstations for the forseeable future. I wish SGI would put half the effort they have expended on making cheap NT boxes into doing the same for the O2. Can't see how an O2 costs more than the $4k NT box. Presumably SGI owns their CPU, OS, and compilers. Hopefully SGI doesn't pay much in royalties on code as Sun is somehow able to ship SunOS (for presonal use) for almost free. Almost cheaper than FreeBSD. If internally SGI would recognize the need to ship volume vs. milk the cash cow then they'd have Sun and Microsoft scared. IMHO SGI's problems originate in the early 90's when it was said they were developing an SGI video card. Initially it was believed to be a NuBus card for Macs. Then when announced it was a (either ISA or VL) card for PC's at over $3k. Didn't do very well as PC's were not mature enough to deal with a strange video card. Its a shame because the higher end of the Mac market would have been willing to pay that price. Plus the card would not have been the compatibility problem for the Mac. Presumably somebody thought SGI and Apple were competitors so SGI shouldn't help Apple by producing a state of the art video card for the Mac. Am looking forward to MacOS-X. Hoping Apple doesn't handicap it, and its able to be a real un*x.... If only Apple would also put parity/ECC hardware on their memory subsystems... I could replace aging SGI systems with Macintosh. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@nospam.hiwaay.net ===================================================================== The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 19:52:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA26804 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:52:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26797 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:52:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from paulg@interlog.com) Received: from 209-20-1-90.dialin.interlog.com (209-20-1-90.dialin.interlog.com [209.20.1.90]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA03829; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:51:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:48:23 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Griffith X-Sender: paulg@sun.griffith.ca To: David Kelly cc: Jamie Bowden , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Sony Playstations.. In-Reply-To: <199901070018.SAA39818@nospam.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, David Kelly wrote: > Jamie Bowden writes: > Am looking forward to MacOS-X. Hoping Apple doesn't handicap it, and its > able to be a real un*x.... If only Apple would also put parity/ECC > hardware on their memory subsystems... I could replace aging SGI systems > with Macintosh. > Don't hold your breath, Apple is looking at boxes that uses standard PC parts. I still think Apple is missing a large market by not making a kick ass - Graphics box. ------- I mean whats with 3 DIMM/3 PCI slots in these G3 boxes ? No SCSI/Floppy Drives on the new Pro G3s. Firewire is nice - but what about all those Scanners, External SCSI HD, CDROM, DAT, CD-R, Zips, and Jaz drives. Now I can't use that 8GB external HD with the Universal boot system to fix these boxes. HELLO STEVE - WAKE UP: Smells like that Black cube called NeXT ---- Paul Griffith <> paulg@interlog.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Jan 6 22:07:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA10306 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:07:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10301 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:07:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul7.u.washington.edu (root@saul7.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id WAA47474 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:06:55 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul7.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id WAA04685 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:06:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:06:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: xmame Segfaults with -sound Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Well, xmame used to work before the switch to 3.0. Now it works but only if I disable sound. Does anyone use xmame with sound with pcm on 3.0-ELF? Can you tell me how you got audio working? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 14:21:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA17648 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason05.u.washington.edu (jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17643 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul4.u.washington.edu (root@saul4.u.washington.edu [140.142.83.2]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA33118 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:14 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul4.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id OAA14210 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:21:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:20:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: New Majordomo Feature Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I am normally pretty quiet about spam as making a lot of noise about it does little to solve the problem. I know jmb works hard to keep the noise down. I thought of a way that we can help him, if it is feasible. Can majordomo be configured to respond to a new command? The new command would be "spamthread". Anyone who is a subscriber could issue it by sending a reply to Majordomo. Majordomo would read the command in the body and then look at the subject header. Majordomo would shunt all spamthread messages with the offending subject to /dev/null or perhaps a queue for evaluation, banishment, or nuclear assault. The idea is that maybe the first person who catches one of these threads that hits every single list can limit the damage by issuing a spamthread command. If a feature like this were available I would use it. I would love to tell the postmaster about every spam that comes along but I just know that he probably gets as much mail about spam as he does spam. My $.02. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 14:56:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA21944 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.164.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21913 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:56:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from localhost (graeme@localhost) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00542; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:02:37 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:02:37 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Attribution: gjc X-PGP-Key-ID: 702DB549 X-URL: http://www.wsc.monash.edu.au/~graeme/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Jason C. Wells wrote: >I am normally pretty quiet about spam as making a lot of noise about it >does little to solve the problem. I know jmb works hard to keep the noise >down. I thought of a way that we can help him, if it is feasible. > >Can majordomo be configured to respond to a new command? > >The new command would be "spamthread". Anyone who is a subscriber could >issue it by sending a reply to Majordomo. Majordomo would read the command >in the body and then look at the subject header. Majordomo would shunt all >spamthread messages with the offending subject to /dev/null or perhaps a >queue for evaluation, banishment, or nuclear assault. > >The idea is that maybe the first person who catches one of these threads >that hits every single list can limit the damage by issuing a spamthread >command. Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. Sick of threads about Linux vs FreeBSD? Spamthread it! Tired of newbies pleading for help? Spamthread any subject with 'help' in it! Bored with discussions about WordPerfect? Spamthread them! Good procmail recipes reduce spam considerably. Combined with a policy of closed-list posting, mailing list spam becomes negligible. Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross Water Studies Centre, Monash University Phone: +61 3 990 54089 Clayton, Victoria, Australia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 15:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA24907 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (sasami.jurai.net [207.153.65.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA24902 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:34:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from winter@jurai.net) Received: from localhost (winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA21816; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:33:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" To: "Brian W. Buchanan" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > I've just put up an alpha release of my GUI admin tool for FreeBSD. > I'd appreciate it if some folks could take a look at it and give me > some feedback. Bug reports, comments, suggestions, praise, and > criticism are all very welcome. :) Good stuff! I've been thinking about similar things as I've had to dive into GUI programming @ work. My thought was to use gtk+ and the Gtk Perl module instead of hardcoding stuff in C. If anyone has played with an Irix box and seen their administration tools I think they have a fairly nice visual model. (Items in an icon box). If it would be possible to define a perl module API for automatically registering 'tools' in the 'toolbox' adding bits would be quite easy. One of the big issues with a GUI admin tool is presenting the tools in an organized fashion so that like configuration widgets are grouped. In some cases a tool might corespond directly to a falt config file but in other cases it might be far more involved. Take for example, the password file. Do you present a simple interface for adding users? How do groups fit into the tool? Quotas? Login limits? Authentication? One might punt and only present a 1:1 inteface to /etc/master.passwd, ignoring the others and relegating their configuraitons to other interfaces. For a new user, this sort of GUI may be worse than no GUI at all. Anyhow, everyone probably knows all of this and I"m sure there are much better books on HCI and GUI design so I'll stop adding words to words. Anyone else have any ideas on GUI admin tool layout? -- | Matthew N. Dodd | 78 280Z | 75 164E | 84 245DL | FreeBSD/NetBSD/Sprite/VMS | | winter@jurai.net | This Space For Rent | ix86,sparc,m68k,pmax,vax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | Are you k-rad elite enough for my webpage? | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 15:45:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA25976 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:45:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA25970 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:45:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA03335; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:44:22 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990108104419.41982@welearn.com.au> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:44:19 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 02:20:42PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org spamthread freebsd-chat Majordomo end -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 15:47:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26061 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26054 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:47:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4009.ime.net [209.90.195.19]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA26965; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:46:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990107184529.00a24720@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:46:04 -0500 To: Sue Blake , "Jason C. Wells" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature Cc: FreeBSD-chat In-Reply-To: <19990108104419.41982@welearn.com.au> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 10:44 AM 1/8/99 +1100, Sue Blake wrote: >spamthread freebsd-chat Majordomo >end Wow.. That was pretty cool.. Wake me up when this dream is over.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 15:54:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA26801 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:53:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason04.u.washington.edu (jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26795 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul10.u.washington.edu (root@saul10.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.73]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id PAA22446; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:38 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul10.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id PAA20303; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Graeme Cross cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: >Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. Perhaps. I say that we already trust ourselves to not abuse the lists. Also, the description of the possible solution was incredibly simple. As a check against abuse there could be a tally of spamthread commands. Two strikes and your out. >mailing list spam becomes negligible. Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low percentage of my total traffic. I thought maybe my idea could help the people on the lists help themselves as well as the postmaster. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 15:58:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27317 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:58:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27311 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:58:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4009.ime.net [209.90.195.19]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA29657; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:57:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990107185610.00a29780@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 18:57:33 -0500 To: "Jason C. Wells" , Graeme Cross From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature Cc: FreeBSD-chat In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 03:52 PM 1/7/99 -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: > >>Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. > >Perhaps. I say that we already trust ourselves to not abuse the lists. > >Also, the description of the possible solution was incredibly simple. As a >check against abuse there could be a tally of spamthread commands. Two >strikes and your out. > >>mailing list spam becomes negligible. > >Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low >percentage of my total traffic. I thought maybe my idea could help the >people on the lists help themselves as well as the postmaster. The idea, is good.. And it should be an 'optional feature' of Majordomo perhaps.. I do think it would end up a 'pissing contest' in this atmosphere though. There is resolution in the threads, sometimes it just takes a while to get there :-) That's my .02$ worth. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 16:22:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA01570 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:22:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA01565 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:22:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from des@flood.ping.uio.no) Received: (from des@localhost) by flood.ping.uio.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA95072; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:22:16 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from des) To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 08 Jan 1999 01:22:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells"'s message of "Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:20:42 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" writes: > The new command would be "spamthread". Anyone who is a subscriber could > issue it by sending a reply to Majordomo. Majordomo would read the command > in the body and then look at the subject header. Majordomo would shunt all > spamthread messages with the offending subject to /dev/null or perhaps a > queue for evaluation, banishment, or nuclear assault. It would be a very efficient means of killing off a discussion you're starting to lose, or a thread where your work is being criticized. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@flood.ping.uio.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 17:04:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06194 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06182 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:04:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA35395; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:03:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > Take for example, the password file. Do you present a simple interface > for adding users? How do groups fit into the tool? Quotas? Login > limits? Authentication? One might punt and only present a 1:1 inteface > to /etc/master.passwd, ignoring the others and relegating their > configuraitons to other interfaces. For a new user, this sort of GUI may > be worse than no GUI at all. I've been thinking along the same line... The average FreeBSD newbie would wonder something along the lines of, "GECOS field? WTF is GECOS?" My goal is to present a unified interface to configuring the system with things organized in a logical manner. My user editor presently automatically suggests a new UID, can automatically create a new group for each user if desired, and automatically fills in the the home directory with a default of /, and all of these behaviors are, of course, overridable if the sysadmin so desires -- the application /suggests/, rather than /insists/, as Windows likes to do. :) Unfortunately, this still makes it all too easy for a newbie to shoot himself in the foot by sticking new users in wheel, setting their UIDs to 0, giving them bogus shells, deleting root, etc. :) I'm pondering a "Beginner Mode" which would prevent the admin from doing stuff like this until he declared "I know what I'm doing, damnit" and turned it off. -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 17:06:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06517 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:06:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06500 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:06:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4009.ime.net [209.90.195.19]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA18099; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:06:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990107200536.00a21470@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:06:13 -0500 To: "Brian W. Buchanan" , "Matthew N. Dodd" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 05:03 PM 1/7/99 -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: >On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > >> Take for example, the password file. Do you present a simple interface >> for adding users? How do groups fit into the tool? Quotas? Login >> limits? Authentication? One might punt and only present a 1:1 inteface >> to /etc/master.passwd, ignoring the others and relegating their >> configuraitons to other interfaces. For a new user, this sort of GUI may >> be worse than no GUI at all. > >I've been thinking along the same line... The average FreeBSD newbie would >wonder something along the lines of, "GECOS field? WTF is GECOS?" My >goal is to present a unified interface to configuring the system with >things organized in a logical manner. My user editor presently >automatically suggests a new UID, can automatically create a new group for >each user if desired, and automatically fills in the the home directory >with a default of /, and all of these >behaviors are, of course, overridable if the sysadmin so desires -- the >application /suggests/, rather than /insists/, as Windows likes to do. :) > >Unfortunately, this still makes it all too easy for a newbie to shoot >himself in the foot by sticking new users in wheel, setting their UIDs to >0, giving them bogus shells, deleting root, etc. :) I'm pondering a >"Beginner Mode" which would prevent the admin from doing stuff like this >until he declared "I know what I'm doing, damnit" and turned it off. A web solution would be just ducky too.. Wonder if you could run it under the XR6.3 Broadway plugin or not.. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 17:24:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA08776 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:24:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA08771 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:24:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA35461 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990107200536.00a21470@genesis.ispace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Drew Baxter wrote: > A web solution would be just ducky too.. Wonder if you could run it under > the XR6.3 Broadway plugin or not.. I believe there already is a web-based admin thingy in the ports collection under sysutils/webmin. I don't particularly like the idea of using the web to administrate a system for a couple of reasons, though, and in my opinion, an X11 application is the best way to do it if we're looking to make it easy for newbies. (Well, actually, I like text console tools too, but doing it with a GUI is more flexible and more "friendly" in many cases.) My basic goals at this point are: 1) Provide a unified interface for performing common configuration and administraiton tasks. Try to eliminate the need to hunt down the configuration file necessary to change something, then hunt down the documentation for that config file so you know what format your changes should be in, etc. 2) Have it easily usable for folks new to FreeBSD, link it in with online help (manpages, calling up the handbook, etc. in a web browser, etc.) Now if we just had a reliable way to get XFree86 up and running more-or-less automatically... :) -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 18:01:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA12684 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:01:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au [130.194.164.113]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12672 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:01:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au) Received: from localhost (graeme@localhost) by babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01589; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:07:07 +1100 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:07:06 +1100 (EST) From: Graeme Cross Reply-To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au To: "Jason C. Wells" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Attribution: gjc X-PGP-Key-ID: 702DB549 X-URL: http://www.wsc.monash.edu.au/~graeme/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Jason C. Wells wrote: >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: > >>Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. > >Perhaps. I say that we already trust ourselves to not abuse the lists. > >Also, the description of the possible solution was incredibly simple. As a >check against abuse there could be a tally of spamthread commands. Two >strikes and your out. > >>mailing list spam becomes negligible. > >Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low >percentage of my total traffic. I thought maybe my idea could help the >people on the lists help themselves as well as the postmaster. The problem is that the lists are open - AFAIK you can post to the FreeBSD lists without being subscribed to them. While I understand the reasons behind this, the policy assists spammers. It would also allow abuse of a spamthread feature: once the feature became known, a simple posting by some 3l33t d00d on alt.2600 and you would have every idiot on the web sending spamthreads to the lists. Your fundamental idea is great, but it would need to be carefully implemented: 1. Only a subscribed person could send the command 2. You could have a blacklist of people forbidden from sending the spamthread command (as you say, two strikes and you're out) 3. Certain key subjects could never be spamthreaded (eg. freebsd!) Cheers Graeme -- Graeme Cross Water Studies Centre, Monash University Phone: +61 3 990 54089 Clayton, Victoria, Australia To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 19:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20164 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from super-g.inch.com (super-g.com [207.240.140.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20156 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:14:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from spork@super-g.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by super-g.inch.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02461; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:13:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: spork X-Sender: spork@super-g.inch.com To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au cc: "Jason C. Wells" , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How about a 'post-only' subscription with required confirmation? Another list I post to is set up that way, and it seems to eliminate 99.9% of spam. Charles --- Charles Sprickman spork@super-g.com --- "...there's no idea that's so good you can't ruin it with a few well-placed idiots." On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Graeme Cross wrote: > > > >>Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. > > > >Perhaps. I say that we already trust ourselves to not abuse the lists. > > > >Also, the description of the possible solution was incredibly simple. As a > >check against abuse there could be a tally of spamthread commands. Two > >strikes and your out. > > > >>mailing list spam becomes negligible. > > > >Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low > >percentage of my total traffic. I thought maybe my idea could help the > >people on the lists help themselves as well as the postmaster. > > The problem is that the lists are open - AFAIK you can post to the FreeBSD > lists without being subscribed to them. > > While I understand the reasons behind this, the policy assists spammers. > > It would also allow abuse of a spamthread feature: once the feature became > known, a simple posting by some 3l33t d00d on alt.2600 and you would have > every idiot on the web sending spamthreads to the lists. > > Your fundamental idea is great, but it would need to be carefully > implemented: > > 1. Only a subscribed person could send the command > > 2. You could have a blacklist of people forbidden from sending the > spamthread command (as you say, two strikes and you're out) > > 3. Certain key subjects could never be spamthreaded (eg. freebsd!) > > Cheers > Graeme > > -- > Graeme Cross > Water Studies Centre, Monash University Phone: +61 3 990 54089 > Clayton, Victoria, Australia > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 19:17:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA20342 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:17:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gamma.aei.ca (gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA20337 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 19:17:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malartre@aei.ca) Received: from aei.ca (ppp-110-1.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.110.1]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23054; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 22:15:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36955332.11C5BDD4@aei.ca> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 19:37:06 -0500 From: Malartre X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2.8-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: fr, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Graeme.Cross@sci.monash.edu.au CC: "Jason C. Wells" , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Graeme Cross wrote: > > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Jason C. Wells wrote: > > >I am normally pretty quiet about spam as making a lot of noise about it > >does little to solve the problem. I know jmb works hard to keep the noise > >down. I thought of a way that we can help him, if it is feasible. > > > >Can majordomo be configured to respond to a new command? > > > >The new command would be "spamthread". Anyone who is a subscriber could > >issue it by sending a reply to Majordomo. Majordomo would read the command > >in the body and then look at the subject header. Majordomo would shunt all > >spamthread messages with the offending subject to /dev/null or perhaps a > >queue for evaluation, banishment, or nuclear assault. > > > >The idea is that maybe the first person who catches one of these threads > >that hits every single list can limit the damage by issuing a spamthread > >command. > > Jason, there is too much potential here for abuse. > > Sick of threads about Linux vs FreeBSD? Spamthread it! > Tired of newbies pleading for help? Spamthread any subject with 'help' in it! > Bored with discussions about WordPerfect? Spamthread them! > > Good procmail recipes reduce spam considerably. Combined with a policy of > closed-list posting, mailing list spam becomes negligible. > > Cheers > Graeme > > -- > Graeme Cross > Water Studies Centre, Monash University Phone: +61 3 990 54089 > Clayton, Victoria, Australia And if there where some kind of "spam killer" user selectionned (just to stop spam, not to moderate). Give them the right to send such a message. -- [Malartre][malartre@aei.ca][http://www.aei.ca/~malartre/] [LowRent.Org is down...] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 20:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00523 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:51:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00514 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:51:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA07104; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA03467; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:50:53 -0500 (EST) To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Graeme Cross , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature References: From: Matt Curtin Date: 07 Jan 1999 23:50:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells"'s message of "Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:52:06 -0800 (PST)" Message-ID: Lines: 23 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org "Jason C. Wells" writes: > Perhaps. I say that we already trust ourselves to not abuse the > lists. But there's no strong authentication feature in place. That requires overhead. As it is, someone could telnet to port 25 and pretend to be, for example, Jordan and spamthread "Re:". > Also, the description of the possible solution was incredibly > simple. As a check against abuse there could be a tally of > spamthread commands. Two strikes and your out. So you'd have to telnet to port 25 twice. :) > Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low > percentage of my total traffic. That can be (mostly) solved by closing the lists so that only subscribers can post... -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 20:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA00551 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:51:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ip55251.transbay.net [209.133.55.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA00541 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:51:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA22928; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:50:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990107205058.A22919@mooseriver.com> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 20:50:58 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: January BAFUG Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, January 14th. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Josef Grosch will give a talk the use of Perl, Mysql, and DBD & DBI perl modules to create the FreeBSD counter page and registration system. This technique has many uses in web site creation such as user registrations, shopping carts, etc. This will definitely be an "under the hood" talk. ==> Jordan K. Hubbard will be giving a "State of the Union" talk. This talk will most likely include a discussion of the release of 3.0, the move to ELF, the start of the 3.X branch, and the possible inclusion of IPv6 into 3.1. ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on January 23rd at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). We will also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in Daly City. The date for this show is January 30th. See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> bafug.org is off and running! Thanks to Jan Koum and Nicole Harrington. The FreeBSD Retail page and Counter page have been moved to this site. Suggestions are welcome. ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine for use at the Install-a-thons. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.reef.com http://www.bafug.org/Install.html Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before January 14th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 21:11:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA02757 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:11:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02751 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:11:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA69622; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 21:11:03 -0800 (PST) To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, announce@bafug.org Subject: Re: {BAFUG-A} January BAFUG Meeting In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Jan 1999 20:50:58 PST." <19990107205058.A22919@mooseriver.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 21:11:03 -0800 Message-ID: <69618.915772263@zippy.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Argh, my messages must not be getting to the freebsd-sf list today. I've sent two and seen neither one so far. Anyway, I'm afraid that I'm going to miss the next meeting and cannot give my state of the union address after all. I have to be in Murray Hill, NJ that day on business for USENIX and can't change the date. :-( - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 7 23:02:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA13265 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:02:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason03.u.washington.edu (jason03.u.washington.edu [140.142.77.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13259 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul2.u.washington.edu (root@saul2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.21]) by jason03.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id XAA28808; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:02:14 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id XAA20463; Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:02:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:01:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: Matt Curtin cc: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org All right all right. I had a moment of disgust over spam and for a second I thought something could be done. Forgive me for my reincarnated naivete. I will return my resignation regarding spam. Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 03:10:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA08590 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:10:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from superior.mooseriver.com (ip55238.transbay.net [209.133.55.238]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA08559 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:10:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by superior.mooseriver.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA24165; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:09:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Message-ID: <19990108030937.C24123@mooseriver.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:09:37 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: announce@bafug.org Subject: (CORRECTION) January BAFUG Meeting Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group -- BAFUG -- ( CORRECTION ) The Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding it's monthly meeting on Thursday, January 14th. This months meeting will be held at The Silicon Reef in the Mission district of San Francisco. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Agenda: ==> Josef Grosch will give a talk the use of Perl, Mysql, and DBD & DBI perl modules to create the FreeBSD counter page and registration system. This technique has many uses in web site creation such as user registrations, shopping carts, etc. This will definitely be an "under the hood" talk. ==> Due to an unavoidable scheduling conflict, Jordan K. Hubbard will not be giving his "State of the Union" talk. This will be rescheduled at a later date. ==> Nicole Harrington and Josef Grosch will talk about their plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on January 23rd at the Robert Austin Computer show at the Oakland Convention Center. This Install-A-Thon will be held jointly with BALUG (Bay Area Linux Users Group) and CABAL (Consortium of All Bay Area Linux). We will also be holding our traditional Install-A-Thon at the Cow Place in Daly City. The date for this show is January 30th. See http://www.bafug.org/Install.html for more details including directions on how to get to the Cow Palace. ==> bafug.org is off and running! Thanks to Jan Koum and Nicole Harrington. The FreeBSD Retail page and Counter page have been moved to this site. Suggestions are welcome. ==> Donations of hardware are needed to build BAFUG a test machine for use at the Install-a-thons. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round. ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at the Silicon Reef in San Francisco. The Silicon Reef is located at 3057 17th St, between Folsom & Harrison Streets. There is plenty parking on the street. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. The meeting will end at around 10:00pm which will allow for an hour or so to shmooz. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By Muni: Routes 12 Folsom, 22 Fillmore, 33 Stanyan, and 53 Southern Heights stop nearby. By BART: Exit at 16th Street Mission, walk south to 17th Street, turning left (east) and proceeding 4 1/2 short blocks to 3057 17th Street, on the right (south) side. By Car: From the South Bay and Peninsula Take 101 North to San Francisco, Get off at Vermont Ave. exit. Turn left twice on to Mariposa westbound under the freeway. Proceed eight blocks to a right (north) turn onto Harrison where Mariposa dead-ends. Go one block to a left (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the East Bay: Come across the Bay bridge (I-80 westbound) and get off at the 8th street exit, bearing half-left onto Harrison, proceeding nine blocks (curving half-left as Harrison turns southbound and goes under US-101) to a right (west) turn onto 17th Street. Proceed about one full block, and park where you can. From the North Bay: Come across the Golden Gate bridge. Follow 101 which turns into Lombard Stree. At Van Ness Ave. turn right. Continue south on Van Ness until 17th st. Take a left on to 17th. Park where you can. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.reef.com http://www.bafug.org/Install.html Contact: Please contact either Ian Kallen, Nicole Harrington, or Josef Grosch on or before January 14th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. Ian Kallen can be reached at ian@gamespot.com Nicole Harrington can be reached at nicole@mediacity.com Josef Grosch can be reached at jgrosch@MooseRiver.com -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.0 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 10:06:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA29222 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from funbox.demon.co.uk (funbox.demon.co.uk [158.152.85.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29207 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:06:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk) From: tj-fbsd@funbox.demon.co.uk Received: by funbox.demon.co.uk (mail 1.50) id tim.3695D554.00.096A; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:52:20 +0000 Message-ID: To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:41:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Lines: 20 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matthew Dodd wrote: > My thought was to use gtk+ and the Gtk Perl module instead of > hardcoding stuff in C. How about expectk? It's probably the most versatile scripting language to use for this kind of thing -- i.e. causes less sweat, easier to achieve what you need. As they say, "Try it once, and you'll never be without it." [And a vote of thanks to Don Libes for creating it.] Tim. -- T. Jackson, London. (PGP key id 0xDF728069) ________________________________________________________________________ Please reply to t j @ f u n b o x . d e m o n . c o . u k To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 11:40:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13922 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:40:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13913 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:40:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA24523; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:22:10 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:22:09 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: "Brian W. Buchanan" Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990108192206.A27627@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <4.1.19990107200536.00a21470@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > I believe there already is a web-based admin thingy in the ports > collection under sysutils/webmin. Has anyone looked at SFI Director? It's at and might merit investigation. N -- subterra superque womblia liber To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 11:43:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA14179 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:43:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA14171 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:43:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA27952; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:42:49 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:42:49 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: "Jason C. Wells" Cc: Matt Curtin , FreeBSD-chat Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature Message-ID: <19990108194249.B27627@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: ; from Jason C. Wells on Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:01:46PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:01:46PM -0800, Jason C. Wells wrote: > I had a moment of disgust over spam and for a second I thought something > could be done. Forgive me for my reincarnated naivete. I heartily recommend the adcomplain program in the ports system. I've had three "We have terminated this account" messages from ISP tonight so far. I should start painting little cans on the side of my box, . . . N -- subterra superque womblia liber To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 12:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA17183 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:03:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from ime.net (ime.net [209.90.192.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17178 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:03:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from netmonger@genesis.ispace.com) Received: from celeris (56k-port4040.ime.net [209.90.195.50]) by ime.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA22032; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:02:31 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990108145855.00adb390@genesis.ispace.com> X-Sender: netmonger@genesis.ispace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 15:02:27 -0500 To: Nik Clayton , "Brian W. Buchanan" From: Drew Baxter Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <19990108192206.A27627@catkin.nothing-going-on.org> References: <4.1.19990107200536.00a21470@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:22 PM 1/8/99 +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: >On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: >> I believe there already is a web-based admin thingy in the ports >> collection under sysutils/webmin. > >Has anyone looked at SFI Director? > >It's at and >might merit investigation. Ooh looks intriguing... I only brought up web stuff because I am 30 miles away from the unit.. it has no monitor, etc. I find Xoftware to be rather sloppy doing Desktop and app running, although it has a nice Web plugin to access X resources via a regular browser. I've seen Webmin.. I have mixed feelings really.. It's probably because it looks like it may do some stuff behind the scenes that could throw my stuff out of whack.. I don't necessarily do things RIGHT always, but I do it so it WORKS.. Webmin would have been fine if I installed it when I put the machine on. :-) May just stick with editing the things by hand.. the machine is pretty much mine aside from it running DNS and a few other servers. But I'm open to interesting ideas to try out. I will definitely look at this SFI Director product. --- Drew "Droobie" Baxter Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM) OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA http://www.droo.orland.me.us PGP ID: 409A1F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 16:50:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA19822 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA19727 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:49:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA29293 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:18:50 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id LAA03871 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:18:58 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:18:58 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ongoing influx of SPAM into the lists. Message-ID: <19990109111858.D96705@freebie.lemis.com> References: <199901080951.RAA04160@ariadne.tensor.pgs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 02:51:53AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 2:51:53 -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Stephen Hocking-Senior Programmer PGS Tensor Perth wrote: > >> I have refrained from whinging about each & every bit of spam that ends up in >> these mailing lists, as it usually just adds to the noise. Now, I've had a >> gutful. Can we please move it to subscriber only postings? > > I have a suggestion that would accomplish the same goal but still allow > people to post from a different address than they subscribe to: > > Filter posts that do not fit at least one of these criteria: > - From: header contains an e-mail address subscribed to the list. > - To: or Cc: header includes the list's address. > > As most spam is bulkmailed without changing the To: header for each > recipient, this will filter out 99% of the spam, while still allowing > non-subscribed people to post, so long as it isn't a Bcc. Acceptable > compromise? What happens to the rest of the messages? Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 17:19:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA22701 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:19:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA22696 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:19:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA95369; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:18:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:18:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ongoing influx of SPAM into the lists. In-Reply-To: <19990109111858.D96705@freebie.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 2:51:53 -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > > Filter posts that do not fit at least one of these criteria: > > - From: header contains an e-mail address subscribed to the list. > > - To: or Cc: header includes the list's address. > > > > As most spam is bulkmailed without changing the To: header for each > > recipient, this will filter out 99% of the spam, while still allowing > > non-subscribed people to post, so long as it isn't a Bcc. Acceptable > > compromise? > > What happens to the rest of the messages? Bounce 'em with a message stating the criteria required for a post to be accepted? -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 19:49:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA07010 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:49:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from gw.caamora.com.au (jonath5.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.41.237]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA06984 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 19:49:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jon@gw.caamora.com.au) Received: (from jon@localhost) by gw.caamora.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA05816; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:49:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jon) Message-ID: <19990109144932.A5652@caamora.com.au> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:49:32 +1100 From: jonathan michaels To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A GUI administration tool for FreeBSD Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <4.1.19990107200536.00a21470@genesis.ispace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD gw.caamora.com.au 2.2.7-RELEASE i386 X-Mood: i'm alive, if it counts Organisation: Caamora, PO Box 144, Rosebery NSW 1445 Australia Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:23:59PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Drew Baxter wrote: > > > A web solution would be just ducky too.. Wonder if you could run it under > > the XR6.3 Broadway plugin or not.. > > I believe there already is a web-based admin thingy in the ports > collection under sysutils/webmin. I don't particularly like the idea of > using the web to administrate a system for a couple of reasons, though, > and in my opinion, an X11 application is the best way to do it if > we're looking to make it easy for newbies. if this were the case .. then concider a textmode version that relied on getting the basic freebsd woring first. the x windowing system has enough intricasies to make seasoned campainers flinch .. newbies would have an added layer of complexity that would at best befuddle them, at worst turn them off teh idea altogether. textmode interfaces can be made to look just as neat and tidy as x generated stuff, but, withoout the overhead ... not just on the system, but on teh person driving the keynboard most newbies start out on a second computer or one that is not so capable, because they are not just beginers in teh unix universe, but computer beginers as well. at best they are going to have what they can afford based on the information found on thier current version of microsoft windows whatever they are using. > (Well, actually, I like text console tools too, but doing it with a GUI > is more flexible and more "friendly" in many cases.) i disagree .. maybe because i've spent a lifetime making textmode apps look like socalled gui interfaces. > > My basic goals at this point are: > 1) Provide a unified interface for performing common configuration and > administraiton tasks. Try to eliminate the need to hunt down the > configuration file necessary to change something, then hunt down the > documentation for that config file so you know what format your changes > should be in, etc. > 2) Have it easily usable for folks new to FreeBSD, link it in with online > help (manpages, calling up the handbook, etc. in a web browser, etc.) 3) make it east to use by disabeld people, not the ones in wheel chairs that have noting wrong with thier eyes, hand and brains .. but us peoples who struggle with keyboards, screens and stuff because ours eyes and hands and brains have deficiets that makes managing those sort of things difficult at best and crying with frustration, despair at worst. build in font seletion, as well as size, or should i say more importantly. and not sizes like 2 to 8 point but start at 18 and go up to 72 point .. you know like one inch characters. have alternative keyboard usage, and make a sticky key selection, aka ibm os/2 handles the multiple keys required for meta+key or worse still meta+key1+meta+key2 (primary selaection) meta+key3 for final selection. this sort of sequence is annoying for a person with good hand coordination, but for one with neurological deficits ... well, if you had a good imagination. i'm not pounding on teh door to make noises for pc'ing freebsd, rather, i see many good people stuck in bodies most of teh rest of teh planet goes about pretending don't exist. these same crumples living corpses have bright minds and are will to 'serve', only they need a bit of assistance, an even break so to speak. ask yourself 'self, what makes a good admin?' then take a look at the qualities of teh "average" disabled person .. thier are in most cases a lot of very very good correlations. only if teh keyboard were usable, or only if teh screen could be made readable. what a differance it would make to those people, as well as the richness of experience they would be able to bring to the crowd i have called 'the snotty nosed kid brigade' for a long time now .. bearing in mind i was one of these selfsame snotty nosed kids a long time ago. sorry, for the preaching, beging, but when one hasn't much, principles and pride become commodities just to expensive to buy. > Now if we just had a reliable way to get XFree86 up and running > more-or-less automatically... :) yes, and all the more reason to develop a good primary textmode version, from this you could go on and produce any number of so called gui versioned interfaces. once you have teh concept etched in granite, cleaning up teh edges with x is really easy. all i'm doing is offering another point of view, brian. regards jonathan, professional card carrying human vegetable. -- =============================================================================== Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia =========================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 20:22:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA09668 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA09662 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:22:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fullermd@futuresouth.com) Received: (from fullermd@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id WAA27427; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:17:52 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <19990108221752.C26154@futuresouth.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:17:52 -0600 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: "Brian W. Buchanan" , Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ongoing influx of SPAM into the lists. References: <19990109111858.D96705@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Brian W. Buchanan on Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 05:18:26PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 05:18:26PM -0800, Brian W. Buchanan woke me up to tell me: > On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 2:51:53 -0800, Brian W. Buchanan wrote: > > > Filter posts that do not fit at least one of these criteria: > > > - From: header contains an e-mail address subscribed to the list. > > > - To: or Cc: header includes the list's address. > > > > > > As most spam is bulkmailed without changing the To: header for each > > > recipient, this will filter out 99% of the spam, while still allowing > > > non-subscribed people to post, so long as it isn't a Bcc. Acceptable > > > compromise? > > > > What happens to the rest of the messages? > > Bounce 'em with a message stating the criteria required for a post to be > accepted? Didn't this come up not too long ago? I, for one, find it useful when moving a thread (generally, to -chat), to Bcc the original list so they know what happened, but since it's a Bcc no one accidentally keeps it flowing on the old list. I can't be the only one who does this. Sure, it's a convenience... but I have giving up very useful convenience just because someone out there has to be a jerk. --- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* | Matthew Fuller http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd | * fullermd@futuresouth.com fullermd@over-yonder.net * | UNIX Systems Administrator Specializing in FreeBSD | * FutureSouth Communications ISPHelp ISP Consulting * | "The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, | * because I haven't figured out how to light the * | middle yet" | *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 20:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA11352 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:43:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from smarter.than.nu (thought.calbbs.com [207.71.213.16]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11347 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:42:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smarter.than.nu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA97218; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:42:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Brian W. Buchanan" X-Sender: brian@smarter.than.nu To: "Matthew D. Fuller" cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The ongoing influx of SPAM into the lists. In-Reply-To: <19990108221752.C26154@futuresouth.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: > Didn't this come up not too long ago? > I, for one, find it useful when moving a thread (generally, to -chat), to > Bcc the original list so they know what happened, but since it's a Bcc no > one accidentally keeps it flowing on the old list. > I can't be the only one who does this. Sure, it's a convenience... but > I have giving up very useful convenience just because someone out there > has to be a jerk. Okay, so why not test for ANY freebsd.org list in the To/Cc? The To/Cc test is probably the most successful spamfiltering technique I've come across since spammers wised up and stopped using "Comments: Authenticated Sender is..." The spammers have to use a lot more bandwidth to defeat it, too. -- Brian Buchanan brian@smarter.than.nu brian@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 22:52:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA20715 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:52:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell.futuresouth.com (shell.futuresouth.com [198.78.58.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20710 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:52:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rainking@shell.futuresouth.com) Received: from localhost (rainking@localhost) by shell.futuresouth.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA02214 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:52:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:52:09 -0600 (CST) From: Owen Barnett To: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read a little about OpenBSD. All the sources I've read seem to indicate OpenBSD as superior in security issues and FreeBSD in performance issues and perhaps "friendliness" - I was wondering, if anyone has had experience with both, what are the tradeoffs between each system? Owen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Jan 8 23:04:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA21539 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:04:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21534 for ; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:04:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.sh) id XAA20285; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:03:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:03:58 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Owen Barnett on Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600, Owen Barnett wrote: > > Hi, > I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read a > little about OpenBSD. All the sources I've read seem to indicate OpenBSD > as superior in security issues and FreeBSD in performance issues and > perhaps "friendliness" - I was wondering, if anyone has had experience > with both, what are the tradeoffs between each system? > > Owen. > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message FreeBSD is as secure as OpenBSD. One can argue it is even more secure as OpenBSD was the last OS out of the two to have local 'get root' type vulnerability. Security also depends a lot on the admin of the system. But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area no questions asked. -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 02:58:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA14800 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:58:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id CAA14795 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 02:58:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA01791; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:28:17 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id VAA02325; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:28:16 +1030 (CST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:28:16 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com>; from Jan B. Koum on Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 11:03:58PM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600, Owen Barnett wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read a >> little about OpenBSD. All the sources I've read seem to indicate OpenBSD >> as superior in security issues and FreeBSD in performance issues and >> perhaps "friendliness" - I was wondering, if anyone has had experience >> with both, what are the tradeoffs between each system? > > FreeBSD is as secure as OpenBSD. One can argue it is even > more secure as OpenBSD was the last OS out of the two to have > local 'get root' type vulnerability. Security also depends a > lot on the admin of the system. I think this is rather a blanket statement. OpenBSD has a stated aim of being particularly secure. I can't say whether they come closer to this goal than FreeBSD, but you can't put them down on the basis of a single datum. > But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area > no questions asked. I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 03:55:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA20251 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:55:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shell6.ba.best.com (shell6.ba.best.com [206.184.139.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20246 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:55:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkb@shell6.ba.best.com) Received: (from jkb@localhost) by shell6.ba.best.com (8.9.1/8.9.0/best.sh) id DAA14075; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:54:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <19990109035423.A13514@best.com> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 03:54:23 -0800 From: "Jan B. Koum " To: Greg Lehey Cc: Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD References: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com>; from Greg Lehey on Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600, Owen Barnett wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read a > >> little about OpenBSD. All the sources I've read seem to indicate OpenBSD > >> as superior in security issues and FreeBSD in performance issues and > >> perhaps "friendliness" - I was wondering, if anyone has had experience > >> with both, what are the tradeoffs between each system? > > > > FreeBSD is as secure as OpenBSD. One can argue it is even > > more secure as OpenBSD was the last OS out of the two to have > > local 'get root' type vulnerability. Security also depends a > > lot on the admin of the system. > > I think this is rather a blanket statement. OpenBSD has a stated aim > of being particularly secure. I can't say whether they come closer to > this goal than FreeBSD, but you can't put them down on the basis of a > single datum. Likewise you can't claim the OS is secure based on a hype or a statement. > > > But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area > > no questions asked. > > I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied > questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in > the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of > unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. You do not think FreeBSD is better in the performance area? This is a simple yes or no question. :) -- Yan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 04:14:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id EAA23774 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:14:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from phoenix.welearn.com.au (phoenix.welearn.com.au [139.130.44.81] (may be forged)) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA23760 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 04:13:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sue@phoenix.welearn.com.au) Received: (from sue@localhost) by phoenix.welearn.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.0) id XAA11465; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:13:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <19990109231308.32498@welearn.com.au> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 23:13:08 +1100 From: Sue Blake To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Greg Lehey , Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD References: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com> <19990109035423.A13514@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <19990109035423.A13514@best.com>; from Jan B. Koum on Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 03:54:23AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 03:54:23AM -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600, Owen Barnett wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read a > > >> little about OpenBSD. All the sources I've read seem to indicate OpenBSD > > >> as superior in security issues and FreeBSD in performance issues and > > >> perhaps "friendliness" - I was wondering, if anyone has had experience > > >> with both, what are the tradeoffs between each system? > > > > > > FreeBSD is as secure as OpenBSD. One can argue it is even > > > more secure as OpenBSD was the last OS out of the two to have > > > local 'get root' type vulnerability. Security also depends a > > > lot on the admin of the system. > > > > I think this is rather a blanket statement. OpenBSD has a stated aim > > of being particularly secure. I can't say whether they come closer to > > this goal than FreeBSD, but you can't put them down on the basis of a > > single datum. > > Likewise you can't claim the OS is secure based on a hype or a > statement. > > > > > > But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area > > > no questions asked. > > > > I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied > > questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in > > the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of > > unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. > > You do not think FreeBSD is better in the performance > area? This is a simple yes or no question. :) Some people prefer to be appropriate, while others prefer to be simple. -- Regards, -*Sue*- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 08:24:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA13754 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 08:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from cis.ohio-state.edu (mail.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.115.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA13746 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 08:24:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmcurtin@cis.ohio-state.edu) Received: from gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (gold.cis.ohio-state.edu [164.107.112.16]) by cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04661; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:23:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by gold.cis.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA17473; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:23:48 -0500 (EST) To: Owen Barnett Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD References: From: Matt Curtin Date: 09 Jan 1999 11:23:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: Owen Barnett's message of "Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:52:09 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: Lines: 63 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Owen Barnett writes: > I've been using FreeBSD now for a few months, but have recently read > a little about OpenBSD. [...] > what are the tradeoffs between each system? I have not run OpenBSD and FreeBSD on the same hardware, so I cannot make direct comparisons based on personal experience. I use OpenBSD on my SPARC hardware (except sun4u, where I use Solaris) and FreeBSD on my x86 hardware. OpenBSD is definitely more difficult to install. It's not hard, especially if you've been a Unix sysadmin long enough to remember the days of using a scratchpad and/or calculator before firing up newfs. (Not necessarily that long ago; SunOS4 required that IIRC.) But it doesn't compare to the ease of install of FreeBSD. The only way to screw that up is to try and outsmart sysinstall (which seems to be a mistake that a lot of people make the first time through). OpenBSD's active developers seem to be more paranoid. This is useful in security, and security is a stated goal of OpenBSD. However, that isn't to suggest that OpenBSD is completely free from security problems, or that FreeBSD doesn't give any consideration to security. Problems that are discovered in any of the BSDs are quickly published and fixed, and the other BSDs check to see if they're vulnerable, too. So, in some sense, *any* BSD being paranoid is good for all of the BSDs. OpenBSD people are more likely to fix theoretical vulnerabilities. FreeBSD folks lean more toward functionality. The "ports collection" concept was Invented Here(tm) and the other BSDs have deemed it a Good Thing and incorporate it in their systems as well. FreeBSD seems to handle internationalization better. I've had difficulty getting OpenBSD to deal properly with Latin-1 characters for German in tty-based programs running in xterms. No such problem in FreeBSD. (But I didn't spend any time to figure out what exactly the problem was, so it very well could have been the application, irc-II, though I used the same version on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.) FreeBSD is also extremely friendly to Russian, which is very important to me, since I use that language almost daily. OpenBSD has many more supported platforms. So if you want identical systems all around, even where hardware is different, that would be an advantage for you. I have had no problems at all getting any of the BSDs to talk to each other, and they're similar enough that most sysadmins won't care; if they can run one, they can run the others. (Unfortunately, none seem to support the R5k SGI desktop machines. I've got an Indy here that is about to be upgraded to IRIX 6.5, but it sure would be nice if I could run a BSD on it. I've been thinking about doing a port myself, but doubt that I will because I'm not likely to have the time to do the deed alone, and I don't exactly see a huge base of people saying "we wanna help port (Open|Free)BSD to the Indy! Even the Linux port is still sans GUI.) There seems to be quite a bit of code sharing among the BSDs, which I think is a Good Thing, since it allows each project to focus on what it wants, while picking up the features invented in other BSDs. Hope that helps. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 10:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27507 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:53:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from DegNet.de (degnet.de [194.95.214.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27502 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:53:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from malte.lance@gmx.net) Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (GateWay [192.168.168.1]) by DegNet.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id TAA16221; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:53:03 +0100 Received: from neuron.webmore.prv (neuron.webmore.prv "Malte Lance") by neuron.webmore.prv (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA00917; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:52:04 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199901091852.TAA00917@neuron.webmore.prv> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 19:52:03 +0100 (CET) From: Malte Lance Reply-To: malte.lance@gmx.net Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature To: cmcurtin@interhack.net cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 7 Jan, Matt Curtin wrote: > "Jason C. Wells" writes: >> Nearly all of my spam comes from these lists. Granted, spam is a low >> percentage of my total traffic. > > That can be (mostly) solved by closing the lists so that only > subscribers can post... How about making the lists semi-permeable regarding posting: o subscribed people can post without restrictions o not-subscribed people get a confirmation-request on their post by email and have to send-back that confirmation-request to let their post through into the list. This does not really prevent abuse by spammers, but it makes it uncomfortable to spammers. Malte. -- Malte Lance. --- composed with TkRat To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 10:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27964 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:58:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from pops.interhack.net (pops.interhack.net [206.230.35.93]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA27954 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:58:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cmcurtin@strangepork.interhack.net) Received: from strangepork.interhack.net (strangepork.interhack.net [192.168.1.12]) by pops.interhack.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/spamkiller) with ESMTP id PAA23631; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 15:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cmcurtin@localhost) by strangepork.interhack.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA22136; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:03:34 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Curtin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:03:33 -0500 (EST) To: malte.lance@gmx.net Cc: jcwells@u.washington.edu, graeme@babylon.wsc.monash.edu.au, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature In-Reply-To: <199901091852.TAA00917@neuron.webmore.prv> References: <199901091852.TAA00917@neuron.webmore.prv> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <13975.42858.438668.436673@strangepork.interhack.net> X-Attribution: Matvey X-URL: http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ X-Face: L"IcL.b%SDN]0Kql2b`e.}+i05V9fi\yX#H1+Xl)3!+n/3?5`%-SA-HDgPk9uTk<3dv^J5DCgal)-E{`zN#*o6F|y>r)\<>>>> "Malte" == Malte Lance writes: Malte> How about making the lists semi-permeable regarding posting: Malte> o subscribed people can post without restrictions Malte> o not-subscribed people get a confirmation-request on their Malte> post by email and have to send-back that confirmation-request Malte> to let their post through into the list. In my post, I forgot to add that nonsubscribers' posts should be moderated somehow, making it sound like I was advocating something more severe than I intended. I like this better than the idea I meant to convey. I believe the comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi newsgroup works that way[*], and it seems to work pretty well. [* Actually, the first time that you post from a given address, it asks for confirmation. After that, your posts are approved automagically.] -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 11:00:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA28232 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:00:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from sturm.canonware.com (canonware.com [204.107.140.54]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA28223 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:00:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Received: from localhost (jasone@localhost) by sturm.canonware.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05823; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:55:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jasone@canonware.com) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:55:12 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Evans To: "Jan B. Koum " cc: Greg Lehey , Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <19990109035423.A13514@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, 9 Jan 1999, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > > But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area > > > no questions asked. > > > > I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied > > questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in > > the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of > > unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. > > You do not think FreeBSD is better in the performance > area? This is a simple yes or no question. :) If it is a simple yes or no question, then the question is flawed. As has been amply demonstrated by nearly every computer-related marketing machine in existence, "performance" can be applied to very small problem domains, and thus one program is clearly superior to the other, based on "indisputable" micro-benchmarks. Performance cannot be absolutely quantified without absolute constraints on the problem domain. Perpetuating the twisting of truth about performance for the "betterment" of FreeBSD is hardly laudable. Jason Jason Evans http://www.canonware.com/~jasone Home phone: (650) 856-8204 Work phone: (415) 808-8742 "I once knew a happy medium. Her name was Zohar." - James Foster To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 12:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10256 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:30:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from orcrist.mediacity.com (orcrist.mediacity.com [208.138.36.146]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10249 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:30:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter@orcrist.mediacity.com) Received: (from gsutter@localhost) by orcrist.mediacity.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA10739; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:29:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gsutter) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:29:32 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Sue Blake Cc: "Jan B. Koum" , Greg Lehey , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990109122932.B10346@orcrist.mediacity.com> References: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com> <19990109035423.A13514@best.com> <19990109231308.32498@welearn.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95i In-Reply-To: <19990109231308.32498@welearn.com.au>; from Sue Blake on Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 11:13:08PM +1100 Organization: Zer0 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 11:13:08PM +1100, Sue Blake wrote: > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 03:54:23AM -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: > > > On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > > > > > > > But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area > > > > no questions asked. > > > > > > I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied > > > questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in > > > the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of > > > unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. > > > > You do not think FreeBSD is better in the performance > > area? This is a simple yes or no question. :) > > Some people prefer to be appropriate, while others prefer to be simple. Yes. Greg -- Gregory S. Sutter Madness takes its toll. mailto:gsutter@pobox.com Please have exact change. http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/ PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 16:23:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA04489 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:23:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA04483 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:23:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04763; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:52:57 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id KAA03856; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:52:55 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:52:55 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "Jan B. Koum " Cc: Owen Barnett , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs. FreeBSD Message-ID: <19990110105255.C1743@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990108230358.A19973@best.com> <19990109212815.B1743@freebie.lemis.com> <19990109035423.A13514@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <19990109035423.A13514@best.com>; from Jan B. Koum on Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 03:54:23AM -0800 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Saturday, 9 January 1999 at 3:54:23 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: > On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 09:28:16PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Friday, 8 January 1999 at 23:03:58 -0800, Jan B. Koum wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 09, 1999 at 12:52:09AM -0600, Owen Barnett wrote: >>> But you are right - FreeBSD wins in the performance area >>> no questions asked. >> >> I disagree. I would ask questions, or at least answer implied >> questions. There's been enough unpleasantness between the *BSDs in >> the past; we don't want to start that again with a number of >> unqualified statements, even if they should be correct. > > You do not think FreeBSD is better in the performance > area? This is a simple yes or no question. :) Performance is *never* a simple yes/no question. Look at all the contradictory benchmark evidence out there. Personally, I have no experience with OpenBSD, so I can't evaluate its performance. If you have experience, you haven't mentioned it. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 17:54:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12816 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:54:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA12797; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:54:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jmb) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:54:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901100154.RAA12797@hub.freebsd.org> From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" To: jcwells@u.washington.edu CC: cmcurtin@interhack.net, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (jcwells@u.washington.edu) Subject: Re: New Majordomo Feature References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:01:46 -0800 (PST) > From: "Jason C. Wells" > > All right all right. > > I had a moment of disgust over spam and for a second I thought something > could be done. Forgive me for my reincarnated naivete. > > I will return my resignation regarding spam. one problem, is that i have been very busy at work lately and have been getting to the lists less frequently than usual. so people get their spam out to all the lists rather than just a few. as you can see i am trying to catch up from thursday (its now saturday, i will be at work tomorrow). jmb To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 21:15:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA01178 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:15:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from jason02.u.washington.edu (jason02.u.washington.edu [140.142.76.8]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01173 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:15:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcwells@u.washington.edu) Received: from saul9.u.washington.edu (root@saul9.u.washington.edu [140.142.82.7]) by jason02.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id VAA30102 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:14:45 -0800 Received: from S8-37-26.student.washington.edu (S8-37-26.student.washington.edu [128.208.37.26]) by saul9.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id VAA11611 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:14:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 21:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-Sender: jason@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu Reply-To: "Jason C. Wells" To: FreeBSD-chat Subject: Confused on Hacker/Cracker Definition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I have long held the understanding that in computing, a "hacker" fixes things and a "cracker" breaks them. As I continue to try to learn about information security I read many articles. It seems that the distinction between hacker and cracker is blurred in cyberpress. This blurring seems to occur even on computer savvy news sites like cnet, slashdot, and wired. TNHD still provides a negative view on "crackers". Some of these cracker groups seem to claim themsleves as hackers. Is this a bid for credibility akin to a terrorist claiming to be a politician? I am wondering if the meaning of words is shifting and the people that I continue to call cracker are gaining (perceived) credibility enough to be called hacker? Is my understanding outdated? Catchya Later, | UW Mechanical Engineering Jason Wells | http://weber.u.washington.edu/~jcwells/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Jan 9 22:24:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA06437 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 22:24:25 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06432 for ; Sat, 9 Jan 1999 22:24:21 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA06230; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:53:47 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA15266; Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:53:42 +1030 (CST) Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 16:53:42 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: "Michael G." , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster Size Message-ID: <19990110165342.K8886@freebie.lemis.com> References: <19990110162913.J8886@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: ; from Alfred Perlstein on Sun, Jan 10, 1999 at 01:25:54AM -0500 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [Following up to -chat] On Sunday, 10 January 1999 at 1:25:54 -0500, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Greg Lehey wrote: >> On Sunday, 10 January 1999 at 0:45:43 -0500, Michael G. wrote: >>> PIC X 10 VALUE "YES! COBOL" >> >> What language is this? > > Isn't it COBOL? :) None that I have seen. Has it changed since COBOL 85? I would have thought it would have to be 5 FOO PIC X(10) VALUE "HAH! COBOL". Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message