From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 8:27:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from alanis.uebs.itacs.to (N712P018.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.98.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE20937B596 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:27:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philipp@alanis.uebs.itacs.to) Received: (from philipp@localhost) by alanis.uebs.itacs.to (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01156 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:25:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from philipp) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:25:10 +0200 From: Philipp Huber To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: counter page Message-ID: <20000424172510.J982@alanis.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi ! i started a counter page for net/free/openbsd and bsdi. it's under development, and i will add the possibility to count several installations for one person as soon as possible. i know there's a counter page for freebsd, but this one is, as mentioned above, not just limited to freebsd. http://miata.webaxxs.net/bsdcount/ -- Philipp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 8:55: 2 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from alanis.uebs.itacs.to (N712P018.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.98.242]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46F837B731 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 08:54:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philipp@alanis.uebs.itacs.to) Received: (from philipp@localhost) by alanis.uebs.itacs.to (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01277; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:52:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from philipp) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:52:47 +0200 From: Philipp Huber To: advocacy@openbsd.org Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: counter again Message-ID: <20000424175247.B1187@alanis.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi ! the multiple-installations-for-one-person should work now http://miata.webaxxs.net/bsdcount -- Philipp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 13: 9:37 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2448E37BBDD for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:09:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e3OK9V105500 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:09:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 15:09:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: native RealServer now available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG If anyone ever wanted to have a native FreeBSD version of RealServer you'll want to check out this URL. http://proforma.real.com/rn/servers/eval/index.html I haven't actually tried it as I just got off the phone with a person at RealNetworks that called to tell me about it. :-) -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 14:31:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A7637BC8A for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:31:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Received: from owp.csus.edu (mail.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.247]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22620; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:31:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <3904BC73.870C3743@owp.csus.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:28:19 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Price wrote: > > If anyone ever wanted to have a native FreeBSD version of > RealServer you'll want to check out this URL. > > http://proforma.real.com/rn/servers/eval/index.html > > I haven't actually tried it as I just got off the phone with > a person at RealNetworks that called to tell me about it. :-) This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set one up at my previous place of employment. -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 14:44:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mail.hiwaay.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA8237BD97 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:44:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id e3OLiig01269; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:44:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:44:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Price To: Joseph Scott Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available In-Reply-To: <3904BC73.870C3743@owp.csus.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set # one up at my previous place of employment. A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well hidden on their website. Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 14:50:23 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6B937BC2E for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:50:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id DA1E4D; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DCC49A0F; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:50:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Steve Price Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG There used to be a native one for FBSD 2.x This is new for 3.X Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Steve Price wrote: > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > > # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set > # one up at my previous place of employment. > > A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the > Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If > you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their > sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well > hidden on their website. > > Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ > audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? > > -steve > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 14:53:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5BC37B66C for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:53:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Received: from owp.csus.edu (mail.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.247]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22934; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:52:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <3904C186.22C9881@owp.csus.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:49:59 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Price wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > > # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set > # one up at my previous place of employment. > > A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the > Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If > you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their > sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well > hidden on their website. > > Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ > audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? > > -steve I my boss having a grand old time with their sales folks, seems like they never had the same story twice. In the end we had a CD shipped to us that had native FreeBSD Real Server binaries on it. I left not long after I set it up, so I didn't really get to play with it much, beyond making sure that it worked. Spiffy setup though, all web based once it was installed. I'll double check with my previous co-workers to verify this info just in case I out too lunch on this one :-) I'll also have them see what version it is, I don't recall off the top of my head. -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 14:55:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from pebkac.owp.csus.edu (pebkac.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.245]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACD737B7AE for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:55:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Received: from owp.csus.edu (mail.owp.csus.edu [130.86.232.247]) by pebkac.owp.csus.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22988; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu) Message-ID: <3904C222.93A44687@owp.csus.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 14:52:34 -0700 From: Joseph Scott X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12 i386) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Coleman Cc: Steve Price , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Chris Coleman wrote: > > There used to be a native one for FBSD 2.x This is new for 3.X > You know, that may be the difference. I'm trying to think back now, which machine did I put that on? I may have gone ahead an put it on a 3.x box back then, even though it may have been for 2.x. When I hear back from my former co-workers I'll be sure to verify all of this. -- Joseph Scott joseph.scott@owp.csus.edu Office Of Water Programs - CSU Sacramento To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Mon Apr 24 19:33:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from ostrich.prod.itd.earthlink.net (ostrich.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D0E37BCF8 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:33:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dwilde1@thuntek.net) Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by ostrich.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18931 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thuntek.net (pool0129.cvx8-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.170.129]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04007; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3904E7EC.E8295796@thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:33:48 -0700 From: Don Wilde X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Scott Cc: Chris Coleman , Steve Price , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available References: <3904C222.93A44687@owp.csus.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Joseph Scott wrote: > > Steve Price wrote: > > > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set > > # one up at my previous place of employment. > > > > A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the > > Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If > > you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their > > sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well > > hidden on their website. > > > > Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ > > audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? > > The earlier one never had streaming video. The only way you could get that was with a dual-proc NT box. :-( Is this REALLY the video/audio server??? :Don Wilde To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 8:28:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from alanis.uebs.itacs.to (N709P003.dipool.highway.telekom.at [212.183.98.131]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6527D37BDDF for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:28:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from philipp@alanis.uebs.itacs.to) Received: (from philipp@localhost) by alanis.uebs.itacs.to (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA01131 for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:26:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from philipp) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:26:11 +0200 From: Philipp Huber To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: the counter is up again Message-ID: <20000426172611.B1064@alanis.mini.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi ! i rewrote many parts of the counter today, and as result it's up now :) i'm sorry but due some necessary changes in the data file, you will have to register again if you already had registered...i'm sorry for that but there was no other way. anyway, you now can login, search for other users, and see statistics. the register script blocks too high numbers of installations and other nonsense ;) http://miata.webaxxs.net/bsdcount/ or: http://bsdcount.cjb.net/ Philipp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 20:47:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF57037B722 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:47:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id NAA56930; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:17:38 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:17:38 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, OpenBSD-advocacy@OpenBSD.org Subject: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm writing a "white paper" to describe BSD to people who know Linux. You can find it at http://www.lemis.com/bsdpaper.html. I'd like feedback on the following aspects: 1. Have I forgotten something? 2. Is it accurate? 3. Is it fair? I'm trying as much as possible to show the BSD camps as a united front. I'm also not trying to knock Linux: any reasons to move to BSD must be well-founded, and quite honestly I haven't found too many. But I hope that, when I'm finished, I'll have a document which will be useful to the BSD community as a whole. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 21: 7:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from herd.plethora.net (herd.plethora.net [205.166.146.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3834237BE70 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:07:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seebs@guild.plethora.net) Received: from guild.plethora.net (root@guild.plethora.net [205.166.146.8]) by herd.plethora.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA07596; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:07:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from guild.plethora.net (seebs@localhost.plethora.net [127.0.0.1]) by guild.plethora.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA18098; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:07:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Reply-To: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, OpenBSD-advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:17:38 +0930." <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:07:35 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com>, Greg Lehey writes: >1. Have I forgotten something? BSD/OS. I know we're "distant cousins" or whatever, but we're definitely a live branch of BSD Unix, with active development, market niches, etcetera. There are a bunch of things listing the three open-source systems, but not listing BSD/OS; this may confuse people when they see just-occasional references to the 4th member of the family. Even if we're widely thought to be the black sheep. ;-) Somewhat related: A reason to use BSD would be that you want to develop a product based on a system, and may not want to use a completely open source model. At some point, you may want to point to "bsd.com", which will eventually be something of a BSD, Inc., page for BSD info. I believe there's a company doing commercial support for OpenBSD, as opposed to mere consulting, and Walnut Creek has an existing support deal for FreeBSD, although this is, as I understand it, folding into BSDI's old support group. (And no, for the curious, no one is losing jobs as a result of the merger; the big outcome has been a hiring spree.) >2. Is it accurate? Mostly - but, for instance, note that BSD/OS is not "open source", even though it's clearly a BSD kernel. I would not call the BSD systems "derivatives of AT&T's UNIX". In fact, the entire point of the Lite stuff is that there is *no* derivation, in a legal/copyright sense, which is why BSD is allowed to exist. If you compare AT&T UNIX(tm) to BSD, in practice, the systems diverged from about V7 - BSD is more like V7 than it is like System III or V. At this point, they're more "clones" of Unix than they are any kind of Unix, although they're clones that grew by budding, rather than from a single cell. >3. Is it fair? Probably. >I'm trying as much as possible to show the BSD camps as a united >front. I'm also not trying to knock Linux: any reasons to move to BSD >must be well-founded, and quite honestly I haven't found too many. >But I hope that, when I'm finished, I'll have a document which will be >useful to the BSD community as a whole. I think the key to understanding the BSD "family" is that we're essentially siblings. Siblings don't necessarily get along, but they have a lot in common, and may band together abruptly if they see outsiders "attacking" members of the family. You might want to compare all four of the BSD's, when talking about the differences; BSD/OS is something of a cross in goals between NetBSD and FreeBSD; the product has a lot of the "it's right or we aren't shipping" attitude of NetBSD, and yet, it isn't going for nearly as many platforms as NetBSD. A BSDi higher-up might give a better explanation of our official goals. -s To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 21:32:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6292F37B8CD for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:32:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA57514; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:02:43 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:02:43 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Peter Seebach Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000427140242.M55780@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 26 April 2000 at 23:07:35 -0500, Peter Seebach wrote: > In message <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com>, Greg Lehey writes: >> 1. Have I forgotten something? > > BSD/OS. I know we're "distant cousins" or whatever, but we're definitely > a live branch of BSD Unix, with active development, market niches, etcetera. > There are a bunch of things listing the three open-source systems, but > not listing BSD/OS; this may confuse people when they see just-occasional > references to the 4th member of the family. Even if we're widely thought to > be the black sheep. ;-) Hmm. I didn't forget BSD/OS, but this was supposed to be a comparison of open source operating systems. I see I somehow managed to drop the mention of the name, though. I've fixed it now with a better description of where it fits in. Let me know if that's enough. > Somewhat related: A reason to use BSD would be that you want to > develop a product based on a system, and may not want to use a > completely open source model. Good one. I've added that as well, as well as a brief discussion of the main difference. > At some point, you may want to point to "bsd.com", which will eventually be > something of a BSD, Inc., page for BSD info. Tell me when. Currently it just redirects to http://www.bsdi.com/. > I believe there's a company doing commercial support for OpenBSD, as > opposed to mere consulting, and Walnut Creek has an existing support > deal for FreeBSD, although this is, as I understand it, folding into > BSDI's old support group. It was also my understanding that the WC group wasn't exactly overloaded. > (And no, for the curious, no one is losing jobs as a result of the > merger; the big outcome has been a hiring spree.) Yes, I've noticed :-) >> 2. Is it accurate? > > Mostly - but, for instance, note that BSD/OS is not "open source", even though > it's clearly a BSD kernel. > > I would not call the BSD systems "derivatives of AT&T's UNIX". In fact, > the entire point of the Lite stuff is that there is *no* derivation, in a > legal/copyright sense, which is why BSD is allowed to exist. I wasn't talking in a legal or copyright sense. A lot of the code in BSD is also in System V, and Research UNIX editions 8 to 10 were derived from 4.1cBSD. I think we can let this one stand. > If you compare AT&T UNIX(tm) to BSD, in practice, the systems diverged from > about V7 - BSD is more like V7 than it is like System III or V. That's why :-) >> I'm trying as much as possible to show the BSD camps as a united >> front. I'm also not trying to knock Linux: any reasons to move to BSD >> must be well-founded, and quite honestly I haven't found too many. >> But I hope that, when I'm finished, I'll have a document which will be >> useful to the BSD community as a whole. > > I think the key to understanding the BSD "family" is that we're essentially > siblings. Siblings don't necessarily get along, but they have a lot in > common, and may band together abruptly if they see outsiders "attacking" > members of the family. > > You might want to compare all four of the BSD's, when talking about the > differences; BSD/OS is something of a cross in goals between NetBSD and > FreeBSD; the product has a lot of the "it's right or we aren't shipping" > attitude of NetBSD, and yet, it isn't going for nearly as many platforms > as NetBSD. A BSDi higher-up might give a better explanation of our official > goals. I don't want to differentiate too much. There's a perception in the Linux world that the BSD projects are fragmented and belligerent, and I don't want to help that perception at all. Just enough to explain why there are so many. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 21:38:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.whirlpool.com (mailhost.whirlpool.com [158.52.254.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D2C937BE0F for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:38:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from gillhaa@ghost.whirlpool.com) Received: (qmail 16102 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 04:38:06 -0000 Received: from ghost.whirlpool.com (158.52.19.3) by mailhost.whirlpool.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 04:38:06 -0000 Received: (from gillhaa@localhost) by ghost.whirlpool.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id AAA27764; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:38:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Gillham Message-Id: <200004270438.AAA27764@ghost.whirlpool.com> Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? In-Reply-To: <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> from Peter Seebach at "Apr 26, 2000 11:07:35 pm" To: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org (FreeBSD advocacy list), netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, OpenBSD-advocacy@openbsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Seebach writes: > In message <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com>, Greg Lehey writes: > >1. Have I forgotten something? > > BSD/OS. I know we're "distant cousins" or whatever, but we're definitely > a live branch of BSD Unix, with active development, market niches, etcetera. > There are a bunch of things listing the three open-source systems, but > not listing BSD/OS; this may confuse people when they see just-occasional > references to the 4th member of the family. Even if we're widely thought to > be the black sheep. ;-) Having been at the BSD BOF, I must ask: "Darwin?" Does it qualify? At least it should get as much mention as BSD/OS. -Andrew -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Gillham | NetBSD ist Affengeil. gillham@whirlpool.com | Nachts ist es kaelter I speak for myself, not for my employer. | als draussen. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 21:41:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from herd.plethora.net (herd.plethora.net [205.166.146.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249BD37BDD2 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:41:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from seebs@guild.plethora.net) Received: from guild.plethora.net (root@guild.plethora.net [205.166.146.8]) by herd.plethora.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA07769; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:41:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from guild.plethora.net (seebs@localhost.plethora.net [127.0.0.1]) by guild.plethora.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA18583; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:41:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200004270441.XAA18583@guild.plethora.net> From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Reply-To: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) To: Andrew Gillham Cc: grog@lemis.com (Greg Lehey), FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org (FreeBSD advocacy list), netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 00:38:05 EDT." <200004270438.AAA27764@ghost.whirlpool.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:41:42 -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200004270438.AAA27764@ghost.whirlpool.com>, Andrew Gillham writes: >Having been at the BSD BOF, I must ask: "Darwin?" Does it qualify? >At least it should get as much mention as BSD/OS. I'm not sure about that. It's a little less Unixy (from playing with it a little), and it's *MUCH* less in the BSD family; Mach kernel, for instance. -s To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 21:49: 1 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE23937BDD2 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:48:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA57720; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:18:25 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:18:25 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Andrew Gillham Cc: Peter Seebach , FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000427141825.Q55780@freebie.lemis.com> References: <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> <200004270438.AAA27764@ghost.whirlpool.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <200004270438.AAA27764@ghost.whirlpool.com> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thursday, 27 April 2000 at 0:38:05 -0400, Andrew Gillham wrote: > Peter Seebach writes: >> In message <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com>, Greg Lehey writes: >>> 1. Have I forgotten something? >> >> BSD/OS. I know we're "distant cousins" or whatever, but we're definitely >> a live branch of BSD Unix, with active development, market niches, etcetera. >> There are a bunch of things listing the three open-source systems, but >> not listing BSD/OS; this may confuse people when they see just-occasional >> references to the 4th member of the family. Even if we're widely thought to >> be the black sheep. ;-) > > Having been at the BSD BOF, I must ask: "Darwin?" Does it qualify? > At least it should get as much mention as BSD/OS. Good point. I'll have to add that one. BTW, apologies: I sent the message to OpenBSD-advocacy@OpenBSD.org. That's the wrong address: it should be advocacy@OpenBSD.org. I've sent the original message to them as well, but we now look like we'll have two threads. Please check the addresses before sending a reply. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Wed Apr 26 22: 6:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in (theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.71.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A9B4837BDD1 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:06:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rsidd@theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) Received: (qmail 3416 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 05:05:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO theory3.physics.iisc.ernet.in) (qmailr@144.16.71.158) by theory1.physics.iisc.ernet.in with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 05:05:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3522 invoked by uid 211); 27 Apr 2000 05:05:34 -0000 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:35:34 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan To: Greg Lehey Cc: FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, OpenBSD-advocacy@OpenBSD.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000427103533.B3473@physics.iisc.ernet.in> Mail-Followup-To: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, OpenBSD-advocacy@OpenBSD.org References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Thu, Apr 27, 2000 at 01:17:38PM +0930 X-Operating-System: Linux 2.0.36 i686 X-Question: Do you enjoy reading pointless headers? Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Greg Lehey said on Apr 27, 2000 at 13:17:38: > I'm writing a "white paper" to describe BSD to people who know Linux. > You can find it at http://www.lemis.com/bsdpaper.html. > > I'd like feedback on the following aspects: > > 1. Have I forgotten something? > 2. Is it accurate? > 3. Is it fair? Section "Why isn't BSD better known?" product contained AT&T copyrighted code. The case was settled out of court in 1994, but the spectre of the legislation continues to ^^^^^^^^^^^ haunt people. As recently as March 2000 an article published on Should be "litigation", I imagine. Some additions on "why use BSD instead of linux": * Linux users who're buggered by the difficulty of cleanly upgrading their system (a major kernel upgrade or C library upgrade may require upgrades to 10 or 20 other components, and may in addition break some packages) may like the ease of BSD's "cvs/cvsup / make world" way of upgrading, and the greater continuity in major upgrades (eg FreeBSD 3.x -> 4.x was I believe a fairly smooth change, though I haven't done it yet, but glibc 2.0 -> 2.1 on linux breaks a lot of stuff, and libc5 -> glibc 2.0 broke even more). * FreeBSD's ports collection is also a major plus point, though I've heard that Debian's pkg system is comparably good and there are now some tools for auto-tracking RPM dependencies too. * FreeBSD's binary compatibility with linux. I can run linux-Netscape 6 and the Mozilla linux builds on FreeBSD, and they work fine, but I can't run them on our linux machines because I haven't worked up the courage to upgrade to glibc 2.1 yet. * OpenBSD's reputation for security, for security-critical situations or for the paranoid. On the whole, a very nice article which boosts the BSD's without FUDding linux or sounding patronising towards it the way so many BSD users like to. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 2:23: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB0A37B5B3 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:22:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA77392 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:22:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:22:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Important: Open Source & German Federal Government Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'be read something very interesting shortly: The "Koordinierungs- und Beratungsstelle der Bundesregierung fuer Informationstechnik im Bundesinnenministerium (KBSt)" (an institution of the federal government of Germany dealing with coordination and consulting concerning information technology for the federal administration) has published some weeks ago a paper about replacing commerical software (e.g. Microsoft products) by open source software. One key sentence of the paper is (I'll try to translate below): "Mit Linux oder FreeBSD als Betriebssystem und ergaenzender Open-Source-Software und kommerzieller Software auf OSS-Betriebssystemen steht ein stabiles, preiswertes, ressourcenschonendes, sicheres und von ausreichend vielen Beratungsfirmen unterstuetztes Rechnersystem auch fuer die professionelle Bueroumgebung zur Verfuegung." My translation: The Linux or FreeBSD operating system and additonal open source software as well as commercial software for these open source operating systems make a stable, inexpensive, resource sparing and secure platform for professional office applications; important as well is the availability of commerical support and consulting. You may take a look at the whole paper (written in German) at http://linux.kbst.bund.de/index2.html. The paper has already initiated a large discussion in the German Linux scenery; and the whole paper has some tendency towards Linux although FreeBSD has been mentioned. During all the years, I got the impression Europe doesn't seem to be so important for many of the FreeBSD `guys' as the U.S. but here I think is great chance for FreeBSD in one of the larger European countries. The KBSt will fix the new IT strategy for federal administration in June!! I don't think we should bash Linux or start a flame war here, but we could try to articulate that both - FreeBSD and Linux - should have their place. Why shouldn't we try something like `FreeBSD for the server - Linux for the desktop' (just to suggest a - probably too - simple slogan). On the web site there's an invitation for suggestions by e-mail. Let's take the chance! And more: Why shouldn't the new BSDI get involved here? I read about their plans to be more present in Europe. Commercial support is very important for the administration, and they should not let Linux get all the market here. Some official statement from BSDI would probably do good (if not already happened - I don't know!). Some ideas and suggestions of mine. Would greatly appreciate some resonance! Regards Konrad Heuer Personal Bookmarks: Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen http://www.freebsd.org Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen http://www.daemonnews.o= rg Deutschland (Germany) kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 9:19:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from hotmail.com (f126.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.126]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A024B37B541 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:19:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmd526@hotmail.com) Received: (qmail 35175 invoked by uid 0); 27 Apr 2000 16:19:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20000427161924.35174.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.220.228.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:19:24 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.220.228.2] From: "John Daniels" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, advocacy@netbsd.org Subject: Please support Java port to *BSD Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:19:24 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi: In November 1999 a request for enhancement (RFE) was opened at Sun's Java Developer's Connection titled: Port jdk 1.2.x to FreeBSD (bug id: 4288745). Members of the Java Developer's Connection help prioritize bug fixes and RFE's by voting for the one's that they believe are needed most. The FreeBSD port RFE is currently the #1 request by far with 2953 votes vs. 819 for the #2 request. Even with this wide lead, Sun has no obligation to make an official port of Java to FreeBSD or *BSD, or to be helpful to the *BSD efforts to port Java (see www.freebsd.org/java). The larger the number of votes for our RFE, however, the more difficult it is for Sun to ignore. And the more that we can widen the lead between our #1 RFE and #2, the more dramatic a statement we (collectively) make. An official Java JDK port to FreeBSD would likely mean that all BSD's would benefit either by being able to use the FreeBSD port or by being much closer to a port of their own. In fact, many who have voted for the RFE have left comments supporting a port to *BSD, not just FreeBSD. As you may know, Sun recently teamed with Inprise to create an official port of Java to Linux (building on the work of Blackdown). The *BSD's, with a large and loyal base of developers, also deserve an official native version of Java. Please support the Java on *BSD effort by voting for the RFE at: http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4288745.html If you are not already a member of Sun's Java Developers Connection, you will need to register before voting (membership is free). Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you. John PS Please forward this message to any person, list, or organization that may want to support this effort. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 9:56: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from peach.ocn.ne.jp (peach.ocn.ne.jp [210.145.254.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DC037B685 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:56:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from dcs@newsguy.com) Received: from newsguy.com (p56-dn01kiryunisiki.gunma.ocn.ne.jp [211.0.245.57]) by peach.ocn.ne.jp (8.9.1a/OCN/) with ESMTP id BAA21026; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:55:39 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <390870F9.C5893B55@newsguy.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:55:21 +0900 From: "Daniel C. Sobral" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pt-BR,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Seebach Cc: Greg Lehey , FreeBSD advocacy list , netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? References: <200004270407.XAA18098@guild.plethora.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Peter Seebach wrote: > > BSD/OS. I know we're "distant cousins" or whatever, but we're definitely > a live branch of BSD Unix, with active development, market niches, etcetera. > There are a bunch of things listing the three open-source systems, but > not listing BSD/OS; this may confuse people when they see just-occasional > references to the 4th member of the family. Even if we're widely thought to > be the black sheep. ;-) Nah, it's worse than that. You are a spotted sheep! ;-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) dcs@newsguy.com dcs@freebsd.org dcs@there.is.no.such.thing.as.a.bsdconspiracy.net GPL certainly doesn't meet Janis Joplin's definition of freedom: "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 10: 0:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from zippy.cdrom.com (zippy.cdrom.com [204.216.27.228]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 900C937BAAF for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:00:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) Received: from localhost (jkh@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zippy.cdrom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06871; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:02:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com) To: Konrad Heuer Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Important: Open Source & German Federal Government In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:22:43 +0200." Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 10:02:07 -0700 Message-ID: <6868.956854927@localhost> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I don't think we should bash Linux or start a flame war here, but we could > try to articulate that both - FreeBSD and Linux - should have their place. > Why shouldn't we try something like `FreeBSD for the server - Linux for > the desktop' (just to suggest a - probably too - simple slogan). And what forum should this take place in so that the german government will see and react to it? It's all well and good to ask BSDi to take an active role in this, but they're going to ask precise questions about what information they should release and to whom... - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 15:58: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from obie.softweyr.com (obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639D137BC14 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:58:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from softweyr.com (Foolstrustidentd@obie.softweyr.com [204.68.178.33]) by obie.softweyr.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16254; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:57:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Message-ID: <3908C611.282DF6E9@softweyr.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:58:25 -0600 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Price Cc: Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Steve Price wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > > # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set > # one up at my previous place of employment. > > A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the > Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If > you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their > sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well > hidden on their website. > > Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ > audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? Yes, they just haven't openly advertised it until last week. Clever, eh? -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Thu Apr 27 20:23:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vnode.vmunix.com (vnode.vmunix.com [209.112.4.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744CA37B901 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:23:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chrisc@vmunix.com) Received: by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 6C43FD; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vnode.vmunix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608D449A0F; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Coleman To: Wes Peters Cc: Steve Price , Joseph Scott , freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: native RealServer now available In-Reply-To: <3908C611.282DF6E9@softweyr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The previous Real Server that was available for FreeBSD 2.x was RealAudio version 3. When they switched to version 5, they cut support for FreeBSD. You couldn't get a real server until they got to version 7. But they really haven't advertised it I could be a little mistaken, since I stopped watching after they dropped support for version 5. They could have picked it up when they went to G2 and I wouldn't have noticed. Chris Coleman Daemon News http://www.daemonnews.org Bringing BSD together On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Wes Peters wrote: > Steve Price wrote: > > > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Joseph Scott wrote: > > > > # This has been available for FreeBSD for at least a year now. I set > > # one up at my previous place of employment. > > > > A native FreeBSD version...? You were probably using the > > Linux version under the Linuxulator just like I have. If > > you've been actually using a FreeBSD version then their > > sales staff is really not 'clued in' and it is *very* well > > hidden on their website. > > > > Are we talking about the same software? A realtime video/ > > audio streaming server ala Priss, Darwin, TeraCAST, ...? > > Yes, they just haven't openly advertised it until last week. Clever, eh? > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 1:31:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from gwdu60.gwdg.de (gwdu60.gwdg.de [134.76.10.60]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0EC37B990 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:31:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Received: from localhost (kheuer@localhost) by gwdu60.gwdg.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA83674; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:30:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:30:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Konrad Heuer To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Important: Open Source & German Federal Government In-Reply-To: <6868.956854927@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I don't think we should bash Linux or start a flame war here, but we co= uld > > try to articulate that both - FreeBSD and Linux - should have their pla= ce. > > Why shouldn't we try something like `FreeBSD for the server - Linux for > > the desktop' (just to suggest a - probably too - simple slogan). >=20 > And what forum should this take place in so that the german government > will see and react to it? It's all well and good to ask BSDi to take > an active role in this, but they're going to ask precise questions > about what information they should release and to whom... Sorry that my first mail wasn't precise enough. Well, the KBSt (let me use that abbreviation) people ask for general feedback (including any reports about experiences with open source systems) via e-mail: troles@kbst.bund400.de So why should we who have experiences with FreeBSD not send them some information about what we do? That's my first intention. There will be someone who can tell about FreeBSD on the desktop with KDE and Applixware, and there will be someone who can tell about a web server with FreeBSD, apache and mysql and so on. Of course I'll send them mail about what I do but a single vote won't change much. So my first hope is that more than one message will arrive at KBSt to make them know that FreeBSD is already widespread and a successful open source system. And what can BSDi do? I think they could be able write a mail to KBSt, too, with some statements like this: FreeBSD is and will stay an open source system with these features (fill in here all you like). As far as we can see the next major release will include these new features (fill in again). There are lot of important and useful open source (...) and commerical software products (...). FreeBSD is used by some well-known ISPs (...), and commerical, reliable support is provided by .... Furthermore, a lot of Linux software (...) is perfectly runnable under FreeBSD. I know GeNUA in Kirchheim/Germany sells and supports BSD/OS but BSDi will of course know better about commerical support in Europe (including Germany). Since SuSE plays a very active role in supporting in Linux in Germany Linux is in good position here, no doubt. Maybe my ideas of what BSDi could state are completely nonsense but I all I wish is to make people know that FreeBSD is an excellent open source system although isn't as popular (yet?) as Linux. :-) The IT strategy the KBSt will fix in June will be influence many decisions in many administrations in the years to come. Thanks for reading so far and for your patience. Konrad Heuer Personal Bookmarks: Gesellschaft f=FCr wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH G=D6ttingen http://www.freebsd.org Am Fa=DFberg, D-37077 G=D6ttingen http://www.daemonnews.o= rg Deutschland (Germany) kheuer@gwdu60.gwdg.de To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 5: 3:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vader.runit.sintef.no (vader.runit.sintef.no [129.241.100.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E08837BDF8 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 05:03:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from he@runit.sintef.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vader.runit.sintef.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA28749; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:02:24 +0200 (MEST) To: grog@lemis.com Cc: seebs@plethora.net, FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? From: Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:02:43 +0930" <20000427140242.M55780@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000427140242.M55780@freebie.lemis.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20000428140222P.he@runit.sintef.no> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:02:22 +0200 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 32 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > I would not call the BSD systems "derivatives of AT&T's UNIX". > > In fact, the entire point of the Lite stuff is that there is > > *no* derivation, in a legal/copyright sense, which is why BSD is > > allowed to exist. > > I wasn't talking in a legal or copyright sense. A lot of the code > in BSD is also in System V, and Research UNIX editions 8 to 10 > were derived from 4.1cBSD. I think we can let this one stand. Well, that doesn't make BSD derived from AT&T UNIX -- in those cases it's the other way around, isn't it? > > If you compare AT&T UNIX(tm) to BSD, in practice, the systems > > diverged from about V7 - BSD is more like V7 than it is like > > System III or V. > > That's why :-) If you still want to claim that BSD is derived from AT&T UNIX, I would probably add "research" between AT&T and UNIX, as in In fact, the BSD operating systems are open source derivatives of AT&T's research UNIX operating system, not clones. However, at the moment, there is no AT&T code left in the freely available BSDs, so what makes it then a derivative? Won't this statement perpetuate the misunderstanding that the freely available BSDs are still under threat of litigation from AT&T? Regards, - H=E5vard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 5:42:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from vader.runit.sintef.no (vader.runit.sintef.no [129.241.100.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DBF37BEAA for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 05:42:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from he@runit.sintef.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vader.runit.sintef.no (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29620; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:41:32 +0200 (MEST) To: grog@lemis.com Cc: seebs@plethora.net, FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? From: Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:02:22 +0200" <20000428140222P.he@runit.sintef.no> References: <20000428140222P.he@runit.sintef.no> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.93 on Emacs 19.34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <20000428144131G.he@runit.sintef.no> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:41:31 +0200 X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 11 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Earlier I wrote: > However, at the moment, there is no AT&T code left in the freely > available BSDs, so what makes it then a derivative? Won't this > statement perpetuate the misunderstanding that the freely available > BSDs are still under threat of litigation from AT&T? Hmm, I see I should have read the entire paper before commenting. I need to learn to keep my mouth shut. Sorry 'bout that. - H=E5vard To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 11:23:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from venus.hiline.net (venus.hiline.net [206.61.56.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31FBF37B8FD for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 11:23:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from enrico@benzo.org) Received: from benzo.org (isdn02-110.hiline.net [208.145.65.110]) by venus.hiline.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/kbp) via ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:21:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3909D739.560D2925@benzo.org> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:23:53 -0500 From: Enrico X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: redhatisnotlinux.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://www.redhatisnotlinux.org ...is an effort to promote the awareness that Red Hat is a 'distribution' and also to encourage vendors to port their applications to multiple distributions. As far as BSD is concerned, there was quite a few positive comments in this heated "My distro is better than yours" discussion at http://www.redhatisnotlinux.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=9&t=9 And they say that the *BSD camp is fragmented. ;) --ec To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 13:33: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from www.menzor.dk (menzor.org [195.249.147.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39F1137B8FA for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:33:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ml@seeberg.dk) Received: from sos (fw.danadata.dk [194.239.79.2]) by www.menzor.dk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA23111; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:05:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ml@seeberg.dk) Message-ID: <020d01bfb150$9933c4b0$de280c0a@sos> From: "Morten Seeberg" To: "Greg Lehey" , References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:30:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ehh, Hotmail powered by BSDI??? Thats what this link says in the bottom of your paper :) http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2469255,00.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Lehey" To: "FreeBSD advocacy list" ; ; Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 5:47 AM Subject: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? > I'm writing a "white paper" to describe BSD to people who know Linux. > You can find it at http://www.lemis.com/bsdpaper.html. > > I'd like feedback on the following aspects: > > 1. Have I forgotten something? > 2. Is it accurate? > 3. Is it fair? > > I'm trying as much as possible to show the BSD camps as a united > front. I'm also not trying to knock Linux: any reasons to move to BSD > must be well-founded, and quite honestly I haven't found too many. > But I hope that, when I'm finished, I'll have a document which will be > useful to the BSD community as a whole. > > Greg > -- > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 14:25:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from luna.cdrom.com (luna.cdrom.com [204.216.28.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826EE37BA3C for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:25:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@luna.cdrom.com) Received: by luna.cdrom.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D5E0431F4; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:25:19 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Morten Seeberg Cc: Greg Lehey , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000428142519.A1215@luna.cdrom.com> Reply-To: jim@luna.cdrom.com References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> <020d01bfb150$9933c4b0$de280c0a@sos> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.12i In-Reply-To: <020d01bfb150$9933c4b0$de280c0a@sos>; from ml@seeberg.dk on Fri, Apr 28, 2000 at 10:30:29PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 at 22:30:29 +0200, Morten Seeberg wrote: > Ehh, Hotmail powered by BSDI??? It's powered by FreeBSD, which is now distributed by the new company BSDi, the result of the Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDI merger. - jim -- - jim mock - walnut creek cdrom/freebsd test labs - jim@luna.cdrom.com - - phone: 1.925.691.2800 x.3814 - fax: 1.925.674.0821 - jim@FreeBSD.org - - editor - The FreeBSDzine - www.freebsdzine.org - jim@freebsdzine.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 15:58: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C5437B689 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA79580; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:27:36 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:27:36 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no Cc: seebs@plethora.net, FreeBSD-advocacy@freebsd.org, netbsd-advocacy@NetBSD.ORG, advocacy@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000429082736.A79469@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000427140242.M55780@freebie.lemis.com> <20000428140222P.he@runit.sintef.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000428140222P.he@runit.sintef.no> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 28 April 2000 at 14:02:22 +0200, Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no wrote: >>> I would not call the BSD systems "derivatives of AT&T's UNIX". >>> In fact, the entire point of the Lite stuff is that there is >>> *no* derivation, in a legal/copyright sense, which is why BSD is >>> allowed to exist. >> >> I wasn't talking in a legal or copyright sense. A lot of the code >> in BSD is also in System V, and Research UNIX editions 8 to 10 >> were derived from 4.1cBSD. I think we can let this one stand. > > Well, that doesn't make BSD derived from AT&T UNIX -- in those cases > it's the other way around, isn't it? Well, that's a separate point. But the more important fact, as shown in http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif (which doesn't show the correct derivation of the Eighth Edition), is that BSD was derived from the Sixth and Seventh Editions of AT&T Research UNIX. >>> If you compare AT&T UNIX(tm) to BSD, in practice, the systems >>> diverged from about V7 - BSD is more like V7 than it is like >>> System III or V. >> >> That's why :-) > > If you still want to claim that BSD is derived from AT&T UNIX, I > would probably add "research" between AT&T and UNIX, as in > > In fact, the BSD operating systems are open source derivatives of > AT&T's research UNIX operating system, not clones. That's more correct, yes, but the it would just confuse the target audience, and it's not strictly wrong as it stands. > However, at the moment, there is no AT&T code left in the freely > available BSDs, so what makes it then a derivative? The genealogy. > Won't this statement perpetuate the misunderstanding that the freely > available BSDs are still under threat of litigation from AT&T? Well, that's stated elsewhere. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 16: 0:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA88D37BF68 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from grog@freebie.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id IAA79616; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:29:55 +0930 (CST) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:29:55 +0930 From: Greg Lehey To: Jim Mock Cc: Morten Seeberg , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000429082954.B79469@freebie.lemis.com> References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> <020d01bfb150$9933c4b0$de280c0a@sos> <20000428142519.A1215@luna.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <20000428142519.A1215@luna.cdrom.com> Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Friday, 28 April 2000 at 14:25:19 -0700, Jim Mock wrote: > On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 at 22:30:29 +0200, Morten Seeberg wrote: >> Ehh, Hotmail powered by BSDI??? > > It's powered by FreeBSD, which is now distributed by the new company > BSDi, the result of the Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDI merger. It's certainly confusing, though, isn't it? I wonder if I should put in a comment. Greg -- Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Fri Apr 28 16:12:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from luna.cdrom.com (luna.cdrom.com [204.216.28.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7875637BA4A for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:12:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jim@luna.cdrom.com) Received: by luna.cdrom.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DC54A31F4; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:12:40 -0700 From: Jim Mock To: Greg Lehey Cc: Morten Seeberg , advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Document: What's the difference between Linux and BSD? Message-ID: <20000428161240.A41443@luna.cdrom.com> Reply-To: jim@luna.cdrom.com References: <20000427131738.G55780@freebie.lemis.com> <020d01bfb150$9933c4b0$de280c0a@sos> <20000428142519.A1215@luna.cdrom.com> <20000429082954.B79469@freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.12i In-Reply-To: <20000429082954.B79469@freebie.lemis.com>; from grog@lemis.com on Sat, Apr 29, 2000 at 08:29:55AM +0930 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 at 08:29:55 +0930, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Friday, 28 April 2000 at 14:25:19 -0700, Jim Mock wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 at 22:30:29 +0200, Morten Seeberg wrote: > >> Ehh, Hotmail powered by BSDI??? > > > > It's powered by FreeBSD, which is now distributed by the new company > > BSDi, the result of the Walnut Creek CDROM and BSDI merger. > > It's certainly confusing, though, isn't it? I wonder if I should put > in a comment. I agree. Adding a comment would probably be a good idea since it's not worded very well in that article. - jim -- - jim mock - walnut creek cdrom/freebsd test labs - jim@luna.cdrom.com - - phone: 1.925.691.2800 x.3814 - fax: 1.925.674.0821 - jim@FreeBSD.org - - editor - The FreeBSDzine - www.freebsdzine.org - jim@freebsdzine.org - To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 29 9:58:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from po4.glue.umd.edu (po4.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD8437B837 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:58:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from howardjp@glue.umd.edu) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (root@y.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.68]) by po4.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22460; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:58:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y.glue.umd.edu (sendmail@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12350; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (howardjp@localhost) by y.glue.umd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12346; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:58:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: y.glue.umd.edu: howardjp owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:58:08 -0400 (EDT) From: James Howard To: Enrico Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: redhatisnotlinux.org In-Reply-To: <3909D739.560D2925@benzo.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Enrico wrote: > http://www.redhatisnotlinux.org > > ...is an effort to promote the awareness that Red Hat is a 'distribution' > and also to encourage vendors to port their applications to multiple > distributions. > > As far as BSD is concerned, there was quite a few positive comments in this > heated "My distro is better than yours" discussion at > http://www.redhatisnotlinux.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=9&t=9 > > And they say that the *BSD camp is fragmented. ;) Someone should rebundle FreeBSD so that it looks just like Linux at every level and sell it as a better Linux than Linux...and closed source. :) J~ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-advocacy Sat Apr 29 22:37:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C30C37B7E2; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:37:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA02582; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:37:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:37:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Kennaway To: Philipp Huber Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: the counter is up again In-Reply-To: <20000426172611.B1064@alanis.mini.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Philipp Huber wrote: > anyway, you now can login, search for other users, and see statistics. > the register script blocks too high numbers of installations and other > nonsense ;) > > http://miata.webaxxs.net/bsdcount/ > or: http://bsdcount.cjb.net/ Why don't you coordinate with the existing FreeBSD counter and see if you can produce a single improved version? I think it would be much more accurate having a single "official" counter rather than two, since you aren't likely to get everyone to sign up for both. Kris ---- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message