From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sun Jul 16  1: 1:23 2000
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 10:01:14 +0200 (CEST)
From: Marc Veldman <freebsd@planet.nl>
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
Cc: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 160/m support...
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On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:

> > Is Adaptec aic-7892 and 7899 160/m SCSI support in the pipeline to be
> > worked on? aka, has adaptec released any info to those FreeBSD team
> > members who work on the SCSI drivers? Is it possible that maybe within the
> > next 4 months 160/m support will exist in FreeBSD 4/5?
> 
> It's working, but isn't in the tree yet.

AFAIK, the aic-7892 works just fine in 4.0-STABLE, and it has worked
fine for a few months now. I'm not sure if the actual 160/m works though.

This is from my dmesg:

ahc0: <Adaptec 19160B Ultra160 SCSI adapter> port 0xfc00-0xfcff mem 0xfffbf000-0xfffbffff irq 7 at device 13.0 on pci0
ahc0: aic7892 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=15, 16/255 SCBs
.....
da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <SEAGATE ST39140W 1498> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da0: 8683MB (17783240 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C)

Could some kind committer add a line to RELNOTES.TXT that the
19160 adapter is supported (or at least works partially) ?

===========================================================================

Get off the keyboard you furry feline !

Marc Veldman, CFBSDN (Certified FreeBSD Newbie)



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sun Jul 16  9:35:35 2000
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From: Craig Johnston <caj@lfn.org>
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Subject: socket A?
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Anyone running a socket A motherboard yet?  




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sun Jul 16 10:54:37 2000
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Subject: Re: socket A?
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Yes, I'm using the Asus K7V with 4.1-RC.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Johnston" <caj@lfn.org>
To: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 11:35 AM
Subject: socket A?


> Anyone running a socket A motherboard yet?  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sun Jul 16 17:10:58 2000
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:10:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Brian Handy <handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: firewire revisited
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Hi All,

I've asked about firewire before and have gotten a very lukewarm
response; I guess it's not so popular around these parts.  One of my
coworkers just read about some firewire gizmo that would allow you to
install an IDE disk in this firewire box.  Once you had it set up, it was
hot swappable -- which suggests that it would be really easy to work on a
huge dataset at work, then pull the drive, lug it home and keep
going.  (He's talking about doing this with a 75GB drive, to give you a
feel for the volume of data we're working with.  It's all solar physics
stuff, lots of images.)

Is there anything in FreeBSD that would allow me to do something like
this?


Curious,

Brian



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sun Jul 16 19:21:15 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:21:01 +0900 (JST)
From: Brian Handy <handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: firewire revisited
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0007161929420.38560-100000@tandem.milestonerdl.com>
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I was asked for details on this IDE<->Firewire converter:

http://www.adstech.com/products/pyro_drive_kit.html

I don't actually know anything about it...a friend saw this thing at
Fry's Electronics.


Cheers,

Brian





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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  3:45:55 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:45:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Adam <bsdx@looksharp.net>
To: Brian Handy <handy@lambic.physics.montana.edu>
Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: firewire revisited
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On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, Brian Handy wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I've asked about firewire before and have gotten a very lukewarm
>response; I guess it's not so popular around these parts.  One of my
>coworkers just read about some firewire gizmo that would allow you to
>install an IDE disk in this firewire box.  Once you had it set up, it was
>hot swappable -- which suggests that it would be really easy to work on a
>huge dataset at work, then pull the drive, lug it home and keep
>going.  (He's talking about doing this with a 75GB drive, to give you a
>feel for the volume of data we're working with.  It's all solar physics
>stuff, lots of images.)
>
>Is there anything in FreeBSD that would allow me to do something like
>this?

Hmm... I've done this without firewire, just a plain ol 3 gig ide
drive... Had it in the case, as long as I umounted it before removing the
machine was pretty happy to think it had a phantom disk until I plugged it
back in and mounted it.  They sell sleds to make ide drives removable so
you dont need to take your computer apart each time.  I heard
www.compgeeks.com had these cheap at some time but I didnt look.  



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  7: 1: 6 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:00:35 +0200
From: Robert Szelepcsenyi <Robert.Szelepcsenyi@alcatel.de>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Equinox multiport serial card & FreeBSD
Message-ID: <20000717160035.A3062@slra3c.btl.tcsk.alcatel.de>
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Hi,


I have just got an Equinox multiport serial card (8 ports) from an ISP
who used to run it under Linux. I would like to use the card under
FreeBSD. I checked the Equinox home page, but I did not find any
drivers for FreeBSD, only for Linux and BSDI. I also checked various
discussion forums, where I found several similar questions, but no
answers. Is there any way of using this type of card under FreeBSD?
Which driver supports it?

If I do not get a solution to this problem, I will be forced to use
Linux instead of FreeBSD, which is something I would not like to do.
The ISP complained about Linux being unstable under heavier loads.

Any help will be very appreciated.


Robert


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  7: 8:16 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:08:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Marc Rassbach <marc@milestonerdl.com>
To: Robert Szelepcsenyi <Robert.Szelepcsenyi@alcatel.de>
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Equinox multiport serial card & FreeBSD
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The last time I talked with Equinox, they had no desire to work with
anyone on a BSD port.

Chuck Pherterson
X238
954-746-9000

Perhaps a group of people calling them will get some action.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Robert Szelepcsenyi wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I have just got an Equinox multiport serial card (8 ports) from an ISP
> who used to run it under Linux. I would like to use the card under
> FreeBSD. I checked the Equinox home page, but I did not find any
> drivers for FreeBSD, only for Linux and BSDI. I also checked various
> discussion forums, where I found several similar questions, but no
> answers. Is there any way of using this type of card under FreeBSD?
> Which driver supports it?
> 
> If I do not get a solution to this problem, I will be forced to use
> Linux instead of FreeBSD, which is something I would not like to do.
> The ISP complained about Linux being unstable under heavier loads.
> 
> Any help will be very appreciated.
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  7:22:16 2000
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From: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
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To: Marc Veldman <freebsd@planet.nl>
Cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 160/m support...
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Marc,

Do you know anyone who has tried the support of AIC-7899 chips? That
chipset is used on some quad and dual XEON boards.

-john v.e.

On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, Marc Veldman wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> 
> > > Is Adaptec aic-7892 and 7899 160/m SCSI support in the pipeline to be
> > > worked on? aka, has adaptec released any info to those FreeBSD team
> > > members who work on the SCSI drivers? Is it possible that maybe within the
> > > next 4 months 160/m support will exist in FreeBSD 4/5?
> > 
> > It's working, but isn't in the tree yet.
> 
> AFAIK, the aic-7892 works just fine in 4.0-STABLE, and it has worked
> fine for a few months now. I'm not sure if the actual 160/m works though.
> 
> This is from my dmesg:
> 
> ahc0: <Adaptec 19160B Ultra160 SCSI adapter> port 0xfc00-0xfcff mem 0xfffbf000-0xfffbffff irq 7 at device 13.0 on pci0
> ahc0: aic7892 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=15, 16/255 SCBs
> .....
> da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
> da0: <SEAGATE ST39140W 1498> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
> da0: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 15, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
> da0: 8683MB (17783240 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1106C)
> 
> Could some kind committer add a line to RELNOTES.TXT that the
> 19160 adapter is supported (or at least works partially) ?
> 
> ===========================================================================
> 
> Get off the keyboard you furry feline !
> 
> Marc Veldman, CFBSDN (Certified FreeBSD Newbie)
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  7:50:21 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:50:16 -0500
To: Brian Handy <handy@isass0.solar.isas.ac.jp>
Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: firewire revisited
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> I don't actually know anything about it...a friend saw this thing at
> Fry's Electronics.

I use one on my Macintosh -- it works great, although the drive that I
had in it (a Maxtor Diamond Max Plus) could easily saturate the
Firewire bus.  I'd /really/ love to be able to use Firewire on my new
FreeBSD box, though, and am curious about the state of 1394 drivers.

Accelerate Your Mac (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com) has plenty of info
about the ADS case, albeit Mac centric.

Best,
(jfb)

-- 
What a puny plan.


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17  9:31:22 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:31:01 +0200 (CEST)
From: Marc Veldman <freebsd@planet.nl>
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To: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: 160/m support...
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John,

On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Essenz Consulting wrote:

> Do you know anyone who has tried the support of AIC-7899 chips? That
> chipset is used on some quad and dual XEON boards.

We also use them. I didn't remember that we did,
so I didn't mention them in my earlier email. Sorry about that.
Here's another dmesg:

ahc0: <Adaptec aic7899 Ultra160 SCSI adapter> port 0xec00-0xecff mem 0xfafff000-0xfaffffff irq 5 at device 10.0 on pci3
OptionMode = 3
ahc0: aic7899 Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
ahc1: <Adaptec aic7899 Ultra160 SCSI adapter> port 0xe800-0xe8ff mem 0xfaffe000-0xfaffefff irq 10 at device 10.1 on pci3
OptionMode = 3
ahc1: aic7899 Wide Channel B, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs
da0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <QUANTUM ATLAS 10K 18WLS UCH0> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device 
da0: 80.000MB/s transfers (40.000MHz, offset 31, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da0: 17366MB (35566499 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 2213C)
da1 at ahc0 bus 0 target 1 lun 0
da1: <QUANTUM ATLAS 10K 36WLS UCH0> Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device 
da1: 80.000MB/s transfers (40.000MHz, offset 31, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da1: 34732MB (71132998 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 4427C)

This comes from a Dell Precision somethingorother, running 4.0.

Hope this helps.

===========================================================================

Get off the keyboard you furry feline !

Marc Veldman, CFBSDN (Certified FreeBSD Newbie)




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 10:10:24 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from osiris.ipform.ru (osiris.ipform.ru [212.158.165.98])
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From: "Artem Koutchine" <matrix@ipform.ru>
To: <questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: <port@FreeBSD.ORG>, <hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: GLX,opengl, glut,.. I am lost in all this
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:06:28 +0400
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Hi!

I am totally lost. I have compiled Xracer, glracer, gltron and none
of them use my Riva128 (i know it is pretty old, but i believe it
still might get me some more speed).

I installed mesa. I installed utah-glx. Add <MODULE> into
XF86Config. Rebooted. Nothing. Xracer is still as slow as hell.
Now, the module IS in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules and the lib libGL.so 
point to libGL.so.14 which is build from utah-glx. libGLU.os is 
libGLU.so.14. I also tried symlinking libMesaGL.* to appropriate
libGL libs - xracer did not start at all.

Now. Can anybody give me a comprehensive tutorial or a link to it
how to setup opengl compatibility in Xfree86 3.3.6 (which i use) under
FreeBSD. And can anybody explain all those terms:
glx - is it the name of the port or a technology in general? BTW: what
happen to the glx port? There is only on html file in its dir
GLUT-?
riva-glx - what is it and where did it go? do i need it?
GLU-?
ICE - is it from the same story?

I am totaly confused by all this OpenGL stuff. I wish someday it'll be
more clear and WORKING.
CONFIG: FreeBSD 4.1-RC, XFree86 3.3.6, Riva128ZX,Pentium III 550

Regards,
Artem



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 10:11: 9 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Message-ID: <000601bff0dc$2f32e840$4766fea9@hellraiser>
Reply-To: "dave" <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
From: "dave" <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
To: "Koster, K.J." <K.J.Koster@kpn.com>
Cc: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
References: <59063B5B4D98D311BC0D0001FA7E4522026D76FA@l04.research.kpn.com>
Subject: Re: generalized instructions for pnp modem configuration.
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:18:22 -0400
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Hello,
    No this modem is *not* a winmodem, I know about those and I ensured as
not to get one. I've had it working under both Linux and fbsd 3.4-release. I
have to far been unable to get it working under fbsd 4.0. It's an internal
job. Do you have a similar setup? How did you get yours working? What lines
if any did you have to add where?
Thanks.
Dave.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Koster, K.J." <K.J.Koster@kpn.com>
To: "'dave'" <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: generalized instructions for pnp modem configuration.


> Hi Dave,
>
> If this is a winmodem, you're out of luck. They're so proprietary that
> FreeBSD won't support them. Otherwise, set it to be a regular serial port
> and read the Pedantic PPP Primer (it's in the handbook).
>
>     Kees Jan
> =================================================
>  TV is the worst  of both  worlds.  It's not  as
>  good at words  as radio is because the pictures
>  are a distraction  which demand  attention, and
>  it's not as good as cinema because the pictures
>  are not nearly as good.
>                                  Douglas Adams
>



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 10:43:45 2000
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From: "Brandon DeYoung" <brandon@schoolpeople.net>
To: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Gigabit over copper?
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:45:17 -0500
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Is this actually a reality now? I've found several folks are selling =
switches, but who is making/selling cards? And what's the word on =
FreeBSD drivers?



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 10:45:24 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from turtle.looksharp.net (cc360882-a.strhg1.mi.home.com [24.2.221.22])
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:45:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Adam <bsdx@looksharp.net>
To: dave <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
Cc: "Koster, K.J." <K.J.Koster@kpn.com>,
	freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: generalized instructions for pnp modem configuration.
In-Reply-To: <000601bff0dc$2f32e840$4766fea9@hellraiser>
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I forgot what the 4.0 kernel config files were like, is controller pnp0
an allowable option, and do you have it?  also options PNPBIOS or
something as found in LINT?

On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, dave wrote:

>Hello,
>    No this modem is *not* a winmodem, I know about those and I ensured as
>not to get one. I've had it working under both Linux and fbsd 3.4-release. I
>have to far been unable to get it working under fbsd 4.0. It's an internal
>job. Do you have a similar setup? How did you get yours working? What lines
>if any did you have to add where?
>Thanks.
>Dave.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Koster, K.J." <K.J.Koster@kpn.com>
>To: "'dave'" <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 1:49 PM
>Subject: RE: generalized instructions for pnp modem configuration.
>
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> If this is a winmodem, you're out of luck. They're so proprietary that
>> FreeBSD won't support them. Otherwise, set it to be a regular serial port
>> and read the Pedantic PPP Primer (it's in the handbook).
>>
>>     Kees Jan
>> =================================================
>>  TV is the worst  of both  worlds.  It's not  as
>>  good at words  as radio is because the pictures
>>  are a distraction  which demand  attention, and
>>  it's not as good as cinema because the pictures
>>  are not nearly as good.
>>                                  Douglas Adams
>>
>
>
>
>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
>with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 11:31:20 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:30:58 -0700
From: Brooks Davis <brooks@one-eyed-alien.net>
To: Brandon DeYoung <brandon@schoolpeople.net>
Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Gigabit over copper?
Message-ID: <20000717113058.B7033@orion.ac.hmc.edu>
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On Mon, Jul 17, 2000 at 12:45:17PM -0500, Brandon DeYoung wrote:
>    Is this actually a reality now? I've found several folks are selling
>    switches, but who is making/selling cards? And what's the word on
>    FreeBSD drivers?

SysKonnect makes cards which have FreeBSD drivers.  I'm pretty sure I
saw 1000baseT phys commits from Bill Paul.

-- Brooks

-- 
Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE.


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 12:46:21 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from osiris.ipform.ru (osiris.ipform.ru [212.158.165.98])
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Message-ID: <001f01bff027$2a2ac4e0$0c00a8c0@ipform.ru>
From: "Artem Koutchine" <matrix@ipform.ru>
To: <hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Installed Utah-glx, but see no HW accelaration for RIva128ZX
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 23:42:34 +0400
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Hi!

I installed Utah-glx (nicely compiled and installed). Added the module
block in the config file of XFree86 3.3.6. Ran Mesa tests, ran xracer,
gltrone,glracer and saw no acceleation at all. What the deal?

Here is what X says:

XFree86 Version 3.3.6 / X Window System
(protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6300)
Release Date: January 8 2000
        If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is newer
        than the above date, look for a newer version before reporting
        problems.  (see http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ)
Operating System: FreeBSD 4.1-RC i386 [ELF]
Configured drivers:
  SVGA: server for SVGA graphics adaptors (Patchlevel 1):
      NV1, STG2000, RIVA 128, RIVA TNT, RIVA TNT2, RIVA ULTRA TNT2,
      RIVA VANTA, RIVA ULTRA VANTA, RIVA INTEGRATED, GeForce 256,
      GeForce DDR, Quadro, ET4000, ET4000W32, ET4000W32i, ET4000W32i_rev_b,
      ET4000W32i_rev_c, ET4000W32p, ET4000W32p_rev_a, ET4000W32p_rev_b,
      ET4000W32p_rev_c, ET4000W32p_rev_d, ET6000, ET6100, et3000, pvga1,
      wd90c00, wd90c10, wd90c30, wd90c24, wd90c31, wd90c33, gvga, r128, ati,
      sis86c201, sis86c202, sis86c205, sis86c215, sis86c225, sis5597,
      sis5598, sis6326, sis530, sis620, sis300, sis630, sis540, tvga8200lx,
      tvga8800cs, tvga8900b, tvga8900c, tvga8900cl, tvga8900d, tvga9000,
      tvga9000i, tvga9100b, tvga9200cxr, tgui9400cxi, tgui9420, tgui9420dgi,
      tgui9430dgi, tgui9440agi, cyber9320, tgui9660, tgui9680, tgui9682,
      tgui9685, cyber9382, cyber9385, cyber9388, cyber9397, cyber9520,
      cyber9525, 3dimage975, 3dimage985, cyber9397dvd, blade3d, cyberblade,
      clgd5420, clgd5422, clgd5424, clgd5426, clgd5428, clgd5429, clgd5430,
      clgd5434, clgd5436, clgd5446, clgd5480, clgd5462, clgd5464, clgd5465,
      clgd6205, clgd6215, clgd6225, clgd6235, clgd7541, clgd7542, clgd7543,
      clgd7548, clgd7555, clgd7556, ncr77c22, ncr77c22e, cpq_avga, mga2064w,
      mga1064sg, mga2164w, mga2164w AGP, mgag200, mgag100, mgag400, oti067,
      oti077, oti087, oti037c, al2101, ali2228, ali2301, ali2302, ali2308,
      ali2401, cl6410, cl6412, cl6420, cl6440, video7, ark1000vl, ark1000pv,
      ark2000pv, ark2000mt, mx, realtek, AP6422, AT24, AT3D, s3_savage,
      s3_virge, s3_svga, NM2070, NM2090, NM2093, NM2097, NM2160, NM2200,
      ct65520, ct65525, ct65530, ct65535, ct65540, ct65545, ct65546,
      ct65548, ct65550, ct65554, ct65555, ct68554, ct69000, ct64200,
      ct64300, mediagx, V1000, V2100, V2200, p9100, spc8110, i740, i740_pci,
      i810, i810-dc100, i810e, Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo3, smi, generic
Using syscons driver with X support (version 2.0)
(using VT number 12)


XF86Config: /root/XF86Config
(**) stands for supplied, (--) stands for probed/default values
(**) XKB: keymap: "xfree86(ru)" (overrides other XKB settings)
(**) XKB: rules: "xfree86"
(**) XKB: model: "pc101"
(**) XKB: layout: "us"
(**) Mouse: type: SysMouse, device: /dev/mouse, resolution: 200
(**) Mouse: buttons: 3
(**) SVGA: Graphics device ID: "Primary Card"
(**) SVGA: Monitor ID: "Primary Monitor"
(**) FontPath set to
"/usr/local/AbiSuite/fonts/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrill
ic/misc,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic/75dpi,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cyr
illi
c/100dpi,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc:unscal
ed,/
usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi:unscaled,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi:unsca
led,
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo,/usr/X11R6/li
b/X1
1/fonts/misc,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
(--) SVGA: PCI: NVidia/SGS-Thomson Riva128 rev 33, Memory @ 0xe4000000,
0xe60000
00
(**) SVGA: chipset:  RIVA 128
(**) SVGA: videoram: 8160k
(**) SVGA: Using 16 bpp, Depth 16, Color weight: 555
(--) SVGA: Maximum allowed dot-clock: 256.000 MHz
(**) SVGA: Mode "800x600": mode clock =  69.650
(--) SVGA: Virtual resolution set to 800x600
(--) SVGA: SpeedUp code selection modified because virtualX != 1024
(--) SVGA: RIVA 128: Using hardware cursor
(--) SVGA: Using XAA (XFree86 Acceleration Architecture)
(--) SVGA: XAA: Solid filled rectangles
(--) SVGA: XAA: Screen-to-screen copy
(--) SVGA: XAA: 8x8 color expand pattern fill
(--) SVGA: XAA: Using 6 128x64 areas for pixmap caching
(--) SVGA: XAA: Caching tiles and stipples
(--) SVGA: XAA: Horizontal and vertical lines and segments






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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 14: 1:35 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from guardian.fortress.org (guardian.fortress.org [198.168.253.52])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:01:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Webster <andrew@guardian.fortress.org>
Reply-To: andrew@pubnix.net
To: questions@freebsd.org
Cc: hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Problem installing 4.0 on Deskpro XE466 / PPPoE on 3.4
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Hi,

I'm trying to install FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE on a Compaq Deskpro XE466 with a
Qunatum LPS540 drive, and a Compaq CDROM.  The machine has 32MB Ram, and a
3 network interfaces.

When installing, it gets to extracting chunk 8 of bindist and panics with
a vvf_dup alloc.

Now, before you say, maybe the hardware is bad...

This very machine has been running 3.4 for over 4 months without any
problems, and infact I ended up re-installing 3.4 on it without
difficulties after trying to install 4.0.
I do want to run 4.0 since I can't seem to make PPPoE work on 3.4,
but it works on another 4.0 box I have.

The Deskpro 466XE 3.4 box is running ipfw and I am using it as a firewall.

If anyone has any suggestions regarding either when 4.0 isn't installing
or how to make PPPoE work on 3.4 please send me email as I'm not on these
mailing lists.


Thanks!

Andrew Webster



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 17:43:34 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:46:17 +1000
From: Kevin LEE <klee@esec.com.au>
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Hi all:

        I just wonder any body had tried to install FreeBSD 4 on the
ASUS CUBX Matherboard (based on
Intel 440BX AGPset.

Cheers,
Kevin

--
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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 17:51: 1 2000
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Subject: RE: ASUS CUBX Motherboard supported by FreeBSD
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Should work flawlessly. There's nothing really new about it except the
onboard UDMA66 controller, but that can be disabled.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin LEE [mailto:klee@esec.com.au]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 8:46 PM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: ASUS CUBX Motherboard supported by FreeBSD


Hi all:

        I just wonder any body had tried to install FreeBSD 4 on the
ASUS CUBX Matherboard (based on
Intel 440BX AGPset.

Cheers,
Kevin

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin LEE
Software Architect - Security Management Service
eSec Limited
"Protecting Your e-Business"

Tel:    +61 3 8371 5300
        +61 3 8371 5378 (direct)
Fax:    +61 3 8371 5339
Web:    http://www.esec.com.au
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Should work flawlessly. There's nothing really new =
about it except the onboard UDMA66 controller, but that can be =
disabled.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Kevin LEE [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:klee@esec.com.au">mailto:klee@esec.com.au</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 8:46 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; =
freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: ASUS CUBX Motherboard supported by =
FreeBSD</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi all:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I just =
wonder any body had tried to install FreeBSD 4 on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>ASUS CUBX Matherboard (based on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Intel 440BX AGPset.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kevin</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kevin LEE</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Software Architect - Security Management =
Service</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>eSec Limited</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;Protecting Your e-Business&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Tel:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +61 3 8371 5300</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +61 3 =
8371 5378 (direct)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; +61 3 8371 5339</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Web:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.esec.com.au" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.esec.com.au</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------</FONT>
</P>
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<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Mon Jul 17 22:53:15 2000
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From: "dave" <dmehler22@earthlink.net>
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Subject: persistent pnp modem problems, update.
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Hello,
    I'm trying to get a pnp modem working under fbsd 4.0. This modem was =
previously working under fbsd 3.4, I'm wondering what has changed in =
either the pnp driver or the serial driver between 3.4-release and =
4.0-release?
    My maching has two physical comports in it, 1 and 2. If I disable 2 =
sio1, I get the modem showing up on sio4, resources 2f8 and irq3 if I =
reinable sio1 I don't get a thing. The modem's identifier is in sio.c. =
What I'm wondering is, is there a way to change how either pnp or the =
serial probe detects the modem, I want to change the i/o address used, =
so I can reinable sio1, since the two of them seem to be conflicting in =
some way.
    Thanks.
Dave.


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm trying to get a =
pnp modem=20
working under fbsd 4.0. This modem was previously working under fbsd =
3.4, I'm=20
wondering what has changed in either the pnp driver or the serial driver =
between=20
3.4-release and 4.0-release?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My maching has two =
physical=20
comports in it, 1 and 2. If I disable 2 sio1, I get the modem showing up =
on=20
sio4, resources 2f8 and irq3 if I reinable sio1 I don't get a thing. The =
modem's=20
identifier is in sio.c. What I'm wondering is, is there a way to change =
how=20
either pnp or the serial probe detects the modem, I want to change the =
i/o=20
address used, so I can reinable sio1, since the two of them seem to be=20
conflicting in some way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dave.</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Tue Jul 18  7: 8:47 2000
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To: "Brandon DeYoung" <brandon@schoolpeople.net>
Cc: <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Gigabit over copper?
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Brandon DeYoung writes:
 > Is this actually a reality now? I've found several folks are selling switches, but who is making/selling cards? And what's the word on FreeBSD drivers?
 > 

Our 30 Alteon cards copper cards and Extreme Summit 7i switch arrived
this morning.  

The FreeBSD if_ti driver will (hopefully) require only minor
modifications to work with these cards (update to the latest family of
firmware, change media bits in the driver).  I'll be running the
changes by Bill if/when I get them working.

Cheers,

Drew

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer	http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin
Duke University				Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu
Department of Computer Science		Phone: (919) 660-6590





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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Wed Jul 19  1:10:12 2000
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Hi,

Can anyone confirm that the onStream ADR50 LVD/SE will work with FreeBSD?

Thanks,
Marc.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Marc van Kempen                 BowTie Technology     
Email: marc@bowtie.nl            WWW & Databases
tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65         
fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86         http://www.bowtie.nl
----------------------------------------------------




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Wed Jul 19  8:24:20 2000
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From: Matthew Jacob <mjacob@feral.com>
Reply-To: mjacob@feral.com
To: Marc van Kempen <marc@bowtie.nl>
Cc: hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: onStream ADR50
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I've put some patches in for the 'real SCSI' ADR, but it has never been fully
tested and the reports I got back from the person who I did the changes for
convinced me that this is a questionable device.


On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Marc van Kempen wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone confirm that the onStream ADR50 LVD/SE will work with FreeBSD?
> 
> Thanks,
> Marc.
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Marc van Kempen                 BowTie Technology     
> Email: marc@bowtie.nl            WWW & Databases
> tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65         
> fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86         http://www.bowtie.nl
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
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> 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Wed Jul 19 14:47:16 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:46:52 -0700
From: Elle Yoko Suzuki <suzuki@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: IRQ issues?
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------- Blind-Carbon-Copy

To: suzuki
Subject: IRQ issues?
X-Mailer: mh-6.8.4
X-OS: FreeBSD 2.2.6-STABLE
X-URL: www.hosers.net
From: Elle Yoko Suzuki <suzuki@soda.csua.Berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:46:52 -0700
Sender: suzuki@soda.csua.Berkeley.edu


hi.  I run FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE here's my scenario:

i've just recently acquired a SCSI-2 PCI controller (Adaptec 2940) 
and a SCSI HP DDS1 tape drive.  these components seem to work fine.  
however, there seems to be a problem between the SCSI controller 
and the 3Com ethernet card (3C509).  upon attempting to connect to 
net via our DSL line, ping showed anywhere from 94% to 100% packet 
loss both to our router and any outside machine.  traceroute showed 
that each packet, for each hop each time, took ~2000 ms back and 
forth.  upon removing the new devices, net access went back to normal.

there may be an IRQ conflict.  according to my kernel configuration 
file, the ethernet card -- device ep0 -- is set to irq 10.  i've tried 
to edit the kernel configuration file to change the ep0 irq to 
something else, say 11.  unfortunately, this caused a conflict with 
the sound card (i'm guessing from the dmesg line.  this sound card is 
actually not found or supported for FreeBSD 3.2, i understand: a SB PCI 
128).  i removed the sound card, which i haven't been able to use 
anyway.  at this point, i believed that the ethernet card was set to 
irq 11, now available, and the scsi controller to irq 10.  however, 
upon reboot, i find that a conflict still exists: the coexistence of 
the ethernet card and scsi controller card still cause major net 
laggage.  

several questions arise:

1. is this even IRQ related?  if not, what are some other possible 
reasons for the problem?

(assuming that this is IRQ-related...)

2. is the irq indeed able to be set from the kernel configuration 
file, and then definitely read by the bootup/device probing process?  
(the dmesg thinks the ep0 is set to irq 11, as i had configured, but 
someone had mentioned to me that i shouldn't have been able to do that.)

3.  the line for the controller currently only reads:
	controller ahc0
what if i were to set the irq of ahc0 to something that wasn't in use by 
another conflicting device, say irq 5?  i'm not sure what the 
appropriate syntax would be to follow the 'ahc0' in the line above, even 
from glancing at the other lines with 'irq ...' info set in them in 
the kernel configuration file.

any and all advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.  thanks,


- -elle

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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Wed Jul 19 18:15:20 2000
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From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Trouble with 3Com 3C509 NIC
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:14:56 -0700
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Hi.  I'm using FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE.  I've been having a bit of a nightmare
here with my FreeBSD server and its 3COM 3C509 network card.  It's a AUI/BNC
variety, currently using AUI with a MAU transceiver to 10base-T.

Basically what I experience, is if I put the MTU at 1500 (default), I get
serious stalling when initiating large FTP transfers on my LAN between a
Windows computer and the server.  This also affects my Samba server.  My
solution to this has been to drop the MTU down to 1000, which gets rid of
the stalling problem and giving me fairly good network performance
(600k/sec), but then I get a whole new and much worse pair of problems.
During heavy network traffic, via FTP or Samba, two things occur... the
collision light on my HUB becomes SOLID.  Second, this part is intermittent,
the server run out of buffer space and my server's network layer comes to a
screeching halt for about 10 minutes.  Has anyone experienced anything like
this?

NMBCLUSTERS in my kernel configuration is currently set at 4096.  I'm
considering increasing it to 10240 to see if it at least addresses the
running out of buffers problem.  But this is just a Band-Aid to a more
serious problem, I think.  Ultimately, I'm sure replacing the NIC with
something else might be the best solution, but I'd like to see if there's
any sort of software/driver solution I can apply before buying a new NIC.

Helpfully, I'll include other configuration information about my LAN.  It's
running on a 5 port linksys workgroup hub.  Two machines are connected (the
server, and my Windows workstation), and an ADSL bridging modem (Alcatel
1000.)  The server is a ProTech Single Board computer running a Pentium-166
with 64MB RAM.

Please CC replies to my email as I do not subscribe to either of these
mailing lists.  Any help or suggestions would be very appreciated.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Thu Jul 20 10:19:10 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:19:08 -0400
From: Alan Clegg <abc@bsdi.com>
To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: IBM MicroDrive in a SanDisk "reader"
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I have an IBM MicroDrive (CF+, Type II) that I'm trying to use in a SanDisk
ImageMate CF<-->USB 'reader'.  I can get other media (Kodak 8MB flash) to
work, but when I attempt to read the MicroDrive, I get a failure.  I've 
e-mailed the SanDisk folks, and they assure me that Type II cards work 
fine in this reader, and, infact, it does under Windows. 

Here is the snippet of dmesg showing the failure of the MicroDrive (although
the size is discovered correctly), followed by the success of the 8MB Kodak
Card.

--SNIP--
umass0: detached
umass0: SanDisk Corporation ImageMate CompactFlash USB, rev 1.10/0.09, addr 2
umass0: Get Max Lun not supported (STALLED)
da0 at umass-sim32 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <SanDisk ImageMate II 1.30> Removable Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da0: 650KB/s transfers
da0: 342MB (700561 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 342C)
da0: reading primary partition table: error reading fsbn 0
(da0:umass-sim32:0:0:0): lost device
(da0:umass-sim32:0:0:0): removing device entry
da0 at umass-sim32 bus 0 target 0 lun 0
da0: <SanDisk ImageMate II 1.30> Removable Direct Access SCSI-2 device 
da0: 650KB/s transfers
da0: 7MB (15681 512 byte sectors: 64H 32S/T 7C)
--SNIP--

Anybody have any ideas?

AlanC


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Thu Jul 20 15:59:11 2000
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To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG,
	ernst@jhs.muc.de, norbert@jhs.muc.de, gary@jhs.muc.de
Subject: Re: Trouble with 3Com 3C509 NIC 
From: "Julian Stacey" <jhs@jhs.muc.de>
Organization: Vector Systems Ltd - Unix & Internet consultancy
X-Web: http://www.jhs.muc.de  http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:14:56 PDT."
		<MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGEEEJCBAA.larry@pkunk.net> 
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:18:10 +0200
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> Message-id: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGEEEJCBAA.larry@pkunk.net>

"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." wrote:
> Hi.  I'm using FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE.  I've been having a bit of a nightmare
> here with my FreeBSD server and its 3COM 3C509 network card.  It's a AUI/BNC
> variety, currently using AUI with a MAU transceiver to 10base-T.

My recent experience might not help here, but might help others in similar 
situations, so here's what I discovered:

I had just 1 or 2K bytes/sec on an "rl" NIC using 4.0,
'ifconfig -a' reported the rl0 was in "autoselect" mode,
I guessed the NIC was maybe switching modes & losing traffic,
so I added "media 10baseT/UTP" to ifconfig_rl0 in /etc/rc.conf,
and now get normal performance on 10 Mb/s twisted ethernet.

BTW the slow performance of "autoselect" was seen on several (though I did 
not try all 4 combinations) of
  { a 4 wire cable with no screen : a screened [maybe 8wire] } &
  { to a hub :	direct via crossover adapter to another FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE
		"ep" running on a pcmcia 3com 3c589c }.

Maybe your chipset supports media selection ? maybe as well as AUI/BNC
settings, you might also have a 3rd auto detect option selected ?
that's running slow ? if so try changing it explicitly to AUI
using the 3 com software, or try aprox  "ifconfig ep0 media 10base5/AUI"

Long shots, agreed, maybe worth the try though.  You might also ask your
friends if they know anyone with an ethernet analysis box.  Good Luck.

Julian
-
Julian Stacey	http://bim.bsn.com/~jhs/	
 Kostenlos: FreeBSD 3200 packages, sources, Netscape, WordPerfect & StarWriter.
Anti Software Patent Petition to Euro Parliament: http://petition.eurolinux.org


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Thu Jul 20 21:58: 3 2000
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From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
To: <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: No help...
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:58:00 -0700
Message-ID: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGIEEPCBAA.larry@pkunk.net>
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I'm most disappointed.  I've been running FreeBSD since version 2, and in
all this time I've never experience the total lack of any assistance from
the userbase.  In the past, I've received good advice and help regarding
FreeBSD-small for embedded systems, which my company has used for our
embedded server product.  But now... In the past 3 months, I've posted two
very serious issues I've experienced and the first issue, regarding Bus
Mastering SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller going into UDMA mode receive *ZERO*
replies.  Nothing.  And now... my troubles with a 3COM 3C509 NIC has
received one (rather useless, but thank you Julian.  I appreciate your
input, even if it had nothing to do with the problem) reply.  This is just
so disappointing.  I've been using this operating system for about 5 years
and I used to love it.  The support used to be wonderful.  The hardware
support used to be wonderful.  Now... its not.  I can't get any of you folks
to so much as offer any suggestions (excepting Julian) to my questions, even
when I supply ample information regarding the problem, and attempted
solutions.  I've jumped ship.

After 10 hours of hard work, I successfully migrated my entire server to
Debian Linux, which I must say, the legacy hardware support is there.  Like
FreeBSD used to be.  I wish you all well, but I won't be back with FreeBSD
any time soon.  Not only has the eroding legacy hardware support been a
great disappointment, the lack of any userbase input regarding my troubles
with such legacy hardware has been even more disappointing.  I sorrows me to
have to file away 5 years of know how and experience with this what used to
be wonderful operating system, but the support is gone, the legacy drivers
are flaky at best.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Thu Jul 20 22:10: 4 2000
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From: "Anthony Rubin" <arubin@concentric.net>
To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	<freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGIEEPCBAA.larry@pkunk.net>
Subject: Re: No help...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:15:12 -0500
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Well, I wish that I could have helped but unfortunately I'm not very good
with FreeBSD hardware problems.  I don't think that people intentionally
avoid your questions though and I don't think it is fair to expect people to
always have the answer right away, especially since FreeBSD is free (hence
the name).

I respect your decision to move to another OS and I hope you find what you
need there.



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21  2:22:24 2000
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From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
To: "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>,
	<freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Proper use of support channels (Was: Re: No help...)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 02:22:14 -0700
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| -----Original Message-----
| From: Alfred Perlstein [mailto:bright@wintelcom.net]
| Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:45 AM
| To: Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
| Subject: Proper use of support channels Re: No help...
|
| After reading an email like this I really can't sympathize all that
| much, I've found your older posts:
|
|
http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1989538+1993286+/usr/local/www/d
b/text/2000/freebsd-questions/20000625.freebsd-questions
|
| Complains about SiS support without offering a test unit for anyone
| to work on.  There is no debug info.  There is no specific info,
| the best it gets is:
|
|   "Next, I looked into the source code for ata-dma.c, added a return
|   just before it tries to probe for DMA capable devices and rebooted."
|
| No line number in the driver, no crash dump no SPECIFIC console
| messages.

Test unit?  I have *ONE* UNIT!  I'm not rich.  I can't just give someone my
one unit.  HOWEVER, if someone has replied to me, asking if they could
perhaps use the box, from remote, to do diagnostics on, I'd have said,
"Sure!  Be my guest, I'd be happy to offer my machine, from remote, to play
with.  I'll even help!"

Debug info?  It _FROZE_.  There was no output.  It just locked my box.  All
I did was change the hard drive.  It had been running beautifully with a
different hard drive.  Same controller, same release of the software.  Same
drivers.  I change one thing and it brought the entire OS to a halt.
That's... kind of lame.  It's not like the SiS 5591 is something that's
popped up out of nowhere.  It's not like a few other thousands of people
don't have a box with one of these.

Line number?  You must be kidding!  Anyone with half a grasp of C knowledge
and the FreeBSD source code could _EASILY_ find the line I'm speaking of,
and know exactly what I did.  Certainly, someone with developer level
knowledge would know, with hardly thinking, of the area I'm speaking of.
There's only one function in that module that probes for IDE-DMA
capabilities.  Have you looked at it?  I'd post the line number here, right
now, but.. uh.. I don't have it handy... remember I installed Debian Linux
in an effort to stabilize my internet server.  But!  I someone (besides you)
thinks it would be truly helpful, by all means, let me know.  I can put the
kernel source for FreeBSD onto my server and point right to the line number
I changed.

Alfred, this nothing more than a flamatory reply.  Constructive, helpful
replies would be much more appreciate.  That's all I wanted in the first
place!  I'm quite willing to walk the walk to get to the wanted end.  This
is not productive, though, Alfred.

| And I bet you never bothered to email Soren, the maintainer of the
| driver about the problem.  Yes, his name is listed at the top of the
| driver source, imagine that!
|
|
http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1453611+0+current/freebsd-quest
ions

OK.  I'll concede to that, I didn't post the original message to the proper
newsgroup, perhaps.  But I'd think, those within the development team would
be sifting through this group and perhaps bringing the questions there to
the attention of those whom might be able to help.  A network of
communication, imagine that!

But then.. I don't see a newsgroup for called 'freebsd-pci-ide' either.  I
didn't consider freebsd-hardware with the first question.  But then, I'm
seeing the same level of response with my 3COM problems.  None at all.

| The source file for if_ep.c clearly lists Matthew N. Dodd as the
| maintainer, did you bother to contact him?  Probably not.

This has little to do with that particular module.  FreeBSD's support for
3COM devices has always been shoddy at best.  With comments like '(slow!)'
on one particular 3COM NIC, and '(buggy!)' on another right in the LINT
file, in previous versions.  While it's fairly accepted (IMHO), that 3COM
does make some pretty nice network equipment.  The Linux community doesn't
seem to have much trouble properly supporting this hardware.  At the very
least, someone could ADAPT what the Linux community has done in the way of
3COM driver code into FreeBSD.  But no... I would do it myself, but I fear
my skills in C aren't up to the task.  I wish they were, for if they were,
I'd do it!  Without a doubt, without hesitation!  I love FreeBSD!  At least,
I did.

| The fact of the matter is that you posted highly technical questions
| to a mailing list where they weren't supposed to go, and they
| happened to get lost in a sea of noise.  Trust me driver maintainers
| don't read these lists every day.  You should have tried to contact
| maintainer and filed a PR in GNATS
| (http://www.freebsd.org/support.html#gnats for all you out there
| with less than 5 years of FreeBSD experiance)

I thought I'd try the newsgroups first, to see if anyone could at least
offer suggestions of some kind before escalating to GNATS, which I have in
the past used for FreeBSD-small problems regarding network routing problems,
and accessing the routing socket.  I did receive most useful and helpful
knowledge regarding these problems, and even source code patches, from the
freebsd-small audience.  I certainly commend them for great support and
help.  They're a great bunch of folks, as I imagine most of the FreeBSD
folks are, when they listen.

| I hope you enjoy Debian as long as you don't need any support, as
| you don't seem capable of requesting it properly.  For someone
| using FreeBSD for 5 years you sure don't seem to have gotten it
| yet, and I don't see myself feeling bad about that.

Gotten what?  Properly ask?  I think I properly asked.  I posted very
informative messages, explaining in detail what occurred, what I have, what
has changed, what I tried to cure the problems.  If more information was
needed to help diagnose what the deal was, why couldn't someone take a
moment, as you have to flame me, to say, "Hey, could you boot it up with
'options x y z' and tell me what it says, I might be able to tell you what
the deal is."  Whatever.  More flamatory comments that advance this dialog
in no way whatsoever.  I recommend a flaming newsgroup with this kind of
attitude.

I didn't ask for your flaming attitude, nor do I appreciate it, and I don't
think anyone else would agree it's at all useful to this dialog.  There is a
problem.  I want to solve it, for me, for anyone else whom uses the same
hardware I do.  I've made my opinions and the results of my experiences
clear in a mature, non-flamtory fashion.  I'm disappointed.  I'm frustrated.
I so much want it to work, but it wont and no one will lift a finger to help
me.  I've helped others.  I've done my part time and time again.  When it's
my turn to need help, I get a cold shoulder.  Or from people like you, a hot
one.  Thanks.

As far as sympathy, I don't want any.  I want some help.  If no one can give
me hand here, then I'll go somewhere else where I can get a working system.
I really don't care at this point.  I want it to work.  And that's what's
important.  If its FreeBSD, Linux, or Windows, or Joe-Blow's Magic OS, if it
works and does the tasks I required doing, I'm happy.

For what its worth, I've received more replies to my expression of
disappointment and frustration that's *FORCED* me to use an OS I'm not
terribly familiar with, than I ever have when I asked questions.  Isn't
that.. odd?  Even my friend, a professional computer programmer, told me he
thought my questions were well written and explained the circumstances quite
thoroughly.  And if it makes anyone feel better, I've imported a lot of
configuration related stuff into my Linux box in an effort to plug its leaky
security model.  And I must admit, that has been a rather amusing (though
quite time consuming) task.

Constructive replies would be appreciate Alfred, not flaming.  Thank you for
your input.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21  9:25: 5 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
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To: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue
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I was told by several of my distributors that all motherboards based off
of the Intel 840 chipset are being discontinued. That means the Supermicro
PIIDM3 and PIIIDME, and any other 840 board.

Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.

Has anyone worked with these boards? Supermicro SAYS that they work fine
under Linux and Solaris. However, one of my distributors says thay they
are extremely touchy when it comes to memory. Only Registered PC133 ECC
memory will work.

If someone at freebsd.org wants to seriously test these boards, let me
know, and I'll donate one. Without the 840 boards, server configs are now
back to the 440GX days!

-john v.e.



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21  9:45:57 2000
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:45:35 -0600
From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
To: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue
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In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10007211224450.66348-100000@athena.lightningone.net>; from john@essenz.com on Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 12:31:58PM -0400
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On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 12:31:58 -0400, Essenz Consulting wrote:
> I was told by several of my distributors that all motherboards based off
> of the Intel 840 chipset are being discontinued. That means the Supermicro
> PIIDM3 and PIIIDME, and any other 840 board.

Are you sure they don't just mean any 840 board that uses SDRAM?

It looks like Supermicro has a RAMBUS 840 board on their web page now:

http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/MotherBoards/840/PIIIDR3a.htm

> Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
> the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
> have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.

Not quite identical.  They don't have AGP, which makes it difficult to 
get graphics boards.  (If you want to use it for a workstation.  Most
graphics boards don't come in plain PCI anymore.)

Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@kdm.org


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 10: 6:17 2000
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From: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
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To: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue
In-Reply-To: <20000721104535.A30468@panzer.kdm.org>
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Apparently it affects all boards that the Intel 840 chipset.

Yeah, it does suck that the 370DLx boards dont have AGP, but for a server
you can still find old PCI video cards.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 12:31:58 -0400, Essenz Consulting wrote:
> > I was told by several of my distributors that all motherboards based off
> > of the Intel 840 chipset are being discontinued. That means the Supermicro
> > PIIDM3 and PIIIDME, and any other 840 board.
> 
> Are you sure they don't just mean any 840 board that uses SDRAM?
> 
> It looks like Supermicro has a RAMBUS 840 board on their web page now:
> 
> http://www.supermicro.com/PRODUCT/MotherBoards/840/PIIIDR3a.htm
> 
> > Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
> > the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
> > have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.
> 
> Not quite identical.  They don't have AGP, which makes it difficult to 
> get graphics boards.  (If you want to use it for a workstation.  Most
> graphics boards don't come in plain PCI anymore.)
> 
> Ken
> -- 
> Kenneth Merry
> ken@kdm.org
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
> 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 10:14:28 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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To: john@essenz.com
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue
From: sthaug@nethelp.no
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:31:58 -0400 (EDT)"
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10007211224450.66348-100000@athena.lightningone.net>
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> Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
> the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
> have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.

The IBM Netfinity 3500 servers (possibly other Netfinity models also)
use the Serverworks LE chipset, and work well with FreeBSD 4.0-STABLE.

Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 11:38:25 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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From: "David B" <odyseus00@hotmail.com>
To: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Intel 815E
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:38:19 EDT
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I was wondering if anyone is using a motherboard with the Intel 815E 
chipset.  If so did you get the onboard video and sound to work?(not that is 
overly important, I would popin an ATI xpert 98 8MB if need be). And if so, 
which frebsd 3.4S, 5.0C or somewhere in between?

I was thinking of the ABIT SE-6, in particular.

To my knowlegde Intel, Asus and Abit are considered good manufacturers.  
What are some others? and which are the manufacturers to avoid?  In 
particular, I was wondering about DFI they cost less but are their products 
stable or problematic?

Thanks,

David
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 12:10:41 2000
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com>
Message-Id: <200007211910.MAA20045@earth.backplane.com>
To: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
Cc: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG,
	hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue
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:Apparently it affects all boards that the Intel 840 chipset.
:
:Yeah, it does suck that the 370DLx boards dont have AGP, but for a server
:you can still find old PCI video cards.

    Voodoo 3 2000's (available for PCI or AGP) make great workstation
    video cards.  About $100 and you get all the speed, resolution,
    and color depth you'll ever need for X short of playing hardcore
    games.

						-Matt



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 14:44:53 2000
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To: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2000 12:31:58 EDT."
             <Pine.BSF.4.10.10007211224450.66348-100000@athena.lightningone.net> 
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> I was told by several of my distributors that all motherboards based off
> of the Intel 840 chipset are being discontinued. That means the Supermicro
> PIIDM3 and PIIIDME, and any other 840 board.

I have mixed feelings about this, but on the whole I think it's probably 
for the best.  I've had really patchy results with the i840, and 
performance hasn't been impressive.

> Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
> the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
> have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.

We've had some issues with the RCC chipsets in Dell systems, yes.

> Has anyone worked with these boards? Supermicro SAYS that they work fine
> under Linux and Solaris. However, one of my distributors says thay they
> are extremely touchy when it comes to memory. Only Registered PC133 ECC
> memory will work.
> 
> If someone at freebsd.org wants to seriously test these boards, let me
> know, and I'll donate one. Without the 840 boards, server configs are now
> back to the 440GX days!

FreeBSD Test Labs would very much appreciate the opportunity to beat one 
of these boards up in the name of science.  If you don't have a better 
taker, you can send us one at:

 FreeBSD Test Labs
 BSDi Open Source Solutions
 4041 Pike Lane #F
 Concord, CA 94520

Thanks for the offer!

-- 
... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his
rivals and unfortunately opponents also.  But not because people want
to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force
people to take different points of view.  [Dr. Fritz Todt]




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 15:13:33 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:20:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John T. Farmer" <jfarmer@goldsword.com>
Message-Id: <200007212320.TAA15713@rapier.goldsword.com>
To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
	larry@pkunk.net
Subject: Re: No help...
Cc: jfarmer@goldsword.com
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:58:00 "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." said:
> I'm most disappointed.  I've been running FreeBSD since version 2, and in
> all this time I've never experience the total lack of any assistance from
> the userbase.  In the past, I've received good advice and help regarding
> FreeBSD-small for embedded systems, which my company has used for our
> embedded server product.  But now... In the past 3 months, I've posted two
> very serious issues I've experienced and the first issue, regarding Bus
> Mastering SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller going into UDMA mode receive *ZERO*
> replies.  Nothing.  And now... my troubles with a 3COM 3C509 NIC has
> received one (rather useless, but thank you Julian.  I appreciate your
> input, even if it had nothing to do with the problem) reply.  This is just
> so disappointing.  I've been using this operating system for about 5 years
> and I used to love it.  The support used to be wonderful.  The hardware
> support used to be wonderful.  Now... its not.  I can't get any of you folks
> to so much as offer any suggestions (excepting Julian) to my questions, even
> when I supply ample information regarding the problem, and attempted
> solutions.  I've jumped ship.
>
> After 10 hours of hard work, I successfully migrated my entire server to
> Debian Linux, which I must say, the legacy hardware support is there.  Like
> FreeBSD used to be.  I wish you all well, but I won't be back with FreeBSD
> any time soon.  Not only has the eroding legacy hardware support been a
> great disappointment, the lack of any userbase input regarding my troubles
> with such legacy hardware has been even more disappointing.  I sorrows me to
> have to file away 5 years of know how and experience with this what used to
> be wonderful operating system, but the support is gone, the legacy drivers
> are flaky at best.

I'm truely sorry that you don't feel that your got your "money's worth"
with FreeBSD support.  I've used FreeBSD since 2.0.x days with little
problem.

Now as to your issue with lack of answers, well I could only find
your post to the questions list, in June  [1].  I couldn't find _ANY_
posts from you on the hardware list or the bugs list about _either_ of
these problems.  Now if you had bothered to scan the archives at the
website, you would have found these notes:

WRT the SiS 5591:
	http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=73526+76672+/usr/local/www/db/text/1999/freebsd-hardware/19990621.freebsd-hardware
	http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1499283+1503645+/usr/local/www/db/text/2000/freebsd-questions/20000514.freebsd-questions
	http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=391100+393746+/usr/local/www/db/text/2000/freebsd-questions/20000611.freebsd-questions

WRT your 3C509:
	http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=554179+557957+/usr/local/www/db/text/2000/freebsd-questions/20000423.freebsd-questions
	http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=338124+339573+/usr/local/www/db/text/2000/freebsd-bugs/20000319.freebsd-bugs

And gnats db record wrt Sis 5591...  (And this was for 2.2.6!)
	s [1998/06/21] kern/7014             [PATCH][STABLE] Add support for SiS 5591 bridge to pcisupport.c


The 3C509 works in 3.x systems.  I haven't tried it in 4.x yet, I moved
all my production machines to Intel Pro100's several years ago & dumped
the 509's into win95 boxes.

And from Greg Lehey's postings, it appears that some versions of the 
SiS 5591 chipset have problems with different types of UDMA drives.

So if you want to go run Linux and blame FreeBSD for what looks to be
user error from my seat, go right ahead.

John	<Who's tired of people blaming me for not answering questions
	 I didn't see and don't know the answer to...>

[1]  Lawrence Cotnam Jr.'s original post to FreeBSD-questions
>Date:      Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:36:20 -0700
>From:      "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
>To:        <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
>Cc:        <mrhoda@mystic.com>
>Subject:   Problems with SiS 5591 PCI IDE
>Message-ID:  <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGEEOJCAAA.larry@pkunk.net>
>
>I've been running FreeBSD 4.0 since its release on my Single Board computer
>system which employs a SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller.  All has been just fine
>and happy until I recently upgraded the disk drive to a 13G drive capable of
>UDMA2.  FreeBSD detects that the SiS 5591 is capable of UDMA2 and places the
>controller and drive in UDMA2 mode, at which point the system freezes when
>it attempts to mount the root filesystem.  Efforts to correct the situation
>have resulted in many problems which has caused me to strongly consider
>reverting to FreeBSD 3.x due to all the problems I'm encountering.
>
>My first attempt to fix the problem was to recompile my kernel and making
>sure the option ATA_ENABLE_ATAPI_DMA was not defined.  Rebooting this kernel
>still resulted in detection of UDMA2 capable devices and the freeze when
>attempting to mount the root file system.
>
>Second, needing my web and domain server back desperetely, I reverted to
>older WDC and WD drivers to boot the machine, disabling all ATA devices in
>my config file and rebuilding my kernel.  This booted successfully, but
>after about 4 hours of operation, the driver reported a error during writing
>and disabled multi-sector I/O.  No other adverse problems were detected
>initially.  But worried I proceeded with more attempts to get the ATAPI
>drivers working again with my machine.
>
>Next, I looked into the source code for ata-dma.c, added a return just
>before it tries to probe for DMA capable devices and rebooted.  This
>resulted in a usable system for a little while.  After several hours of
>operation, I began to notice HARD WRITE errors occuring occasionally, as
>well as other indications of disk corruption occuring.  Paniced, I reverted
>again to WD drivers without multi-sector I/O.
>
>So what's the deal?  Is the IDE controller driver code just plain flaky now?
>I've noticed, when I boot with WD drivers, its even reporting a different
>controller text during device detection.  With WD drivers I get "ide_pci0:
><SiS 5591 Bus-master IDE Controller>", when I boot with ATAPI drivers, I get
>"atapci0: <SiS 5591 ATA33 controller>"
>
>I want to stress that before upgrading the computer's disk drive, I've never
>had a single problem, so its definitely some sort of brokenness with the
>fact my new drive supports UDMA2.  What I'd like is a reliable system, not
>UDMA support.  Any suggestions in getting a reliable system with this
>mixture of hardware would be appreciated.
>
>Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
>phone: (775) 337-2536
>email: larry@pkunk.net
>


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 15:52:14 2000
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:51:41 -0600
From: "Kenneth D. Merry" <ken@kdm.org>
To: Jin Guojun <jin@george.lbl.gov>
Cc: jhartley@netrail.net, mjacob@feral.com,
	freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: SysKonnect and Intel gig boards
Message-ID: <20000721165141.A33413@panzer.kdm.org>
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--0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE
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On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 at 18:30:11 -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 at 16:56:16 -0700, Jin Guojun wrote:
> > 	(2) chewing significant CPU: (tested on completely idle machines)
> > 		500 MHz P-III + single NetGear A620 I/O
> > 	takes 47% CPU time
> > 
> > 		750 MHz AMD K7 + single NetGear A620 I/O
> > 	takes less 10% CPU
> > 
> > 		500 MHz P-III + single SysKonnect I/O
> > 	takes less 5% CPU
> 
> What benchmark are you running and what size packets are you using?
> 
> I think I mentioned to you before that the driver is probably tuned for
> 9000 byte packets, and you might need to tweak things somewhat to get
> better performance with 1500 byte packets.

Another parameter to try is enabling transmit flow control.

The attached patch should do it for the -current driver, I think.

I haven't really tested this to see what effect it has, and it'll only work
with Tigon II boards.  (The Netgear board is a Tigon II board.)

Ken
-- 
Kenneth Merry
ken@kdm.org

--0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="if_ti.c.flow_control.20000721"

==== //depot/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c#27 - /a/ken/perforce/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c ====
*** /tmp/tmp.61653.0	Fri Jul 21 16:50:09 2000
--- /a/ken/perforce/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c	Fri Jul 21 16:49:57 2000
***************
*** 2320,2327 ****
--- 2320,2329 ----
  	case IFM_AUTO:
  		CSR_WRITE_4(sc, TI_GCR_GLINK, TI_GLNK_PREF|TI_GLNK_1000MB|
  		    TI_GLNK_FULL_DUPLEX|TI_GLNK_RX_FLOWCTL_Y|
+ 		    TI_GLNK_TX_FLOWCTL_Y|
  		    TI_GLNK_AUTONEGENB|TI_GLNK_ENB);
  		CSR_WRITE_4(sc, TI_GCR_LINK, TI_LNK_100MB|TI_LNK_10MB|
+ 		    TI_LNK_TX_FLOWCTL_Y|TI_LNK_RX_FLOWCTL_Y|
  		    TI_LNK_FULL_DUPLEX|TI_LNK_HALF_DUPLEX|
  		    TI_LNK_AUTONEGENB|TI_LNK_ENB);
  		TI_DO_CMD(TI_CMD_LINK_NEGOTIATION,

--0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE--


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 16:30:48 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from portnoy.lbl.gov (portnoy.lbl.gov [131.243.2.11])
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:30:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jin Guojun (DSD staff) <jin@george.lbl.gov>
Message-Id: <200007212330.e6LNUiH06944@portnoy.lbl.gov>
To: ken@kdm.org
Subject: Re: SysKonnect and Intel gig boards
Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, jhartley@netrail.net,
	mjacob@feral.com
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I will install a current host and test it sometime next week.

Thanks,

	-Jin

> On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 at 18:30:11 -0600, Kenneth D. Merry wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 at 16:56:16 -0700, Jin Guojun wrote:
> > >     (2) chewing significant CPU: (tested on completely idle machines)
> > >             500 MHz P-III + single NetGear A620 I/O
> > >     takes 47% CPU time
> > > 
> > >             750 MHz AMD K7 + single NetGear A620 I/O
> > >     takes less 10% CPU
> > > 
> > >             500 MHz P-III + single SysKonnect I/O
> > >     takes less 5% CPU
> > 
> > What benchmark are you running and what size packets are you using?
> > 
> > I think I mentioned to you before that the driver is probably tuned for
> > 9000 byte packets, and you might need to tweak things somewhat to get
> > better performance with 1500 byte packets.
> 
> Another parameter to try is enabling transmit flow control.
> 
> The attached patch should do it for the -current driver, I think.
> 
> I haven't really tested this to see what effect it has, and it'll only work
> with Tigon II boards.  (The Netgear board is a Tigon II board.)
> 
> Ken
> -- 
> Kenneth Merry
> ken@kdm.org
> 
> --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="if_ti.c.flow_control.20000721"
> 
> ==== //depot/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c#27 - /a/ken/perforce/FreeBSD-cu
> rrent/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c ====
> *** /tmp/tmp.61653.0    Fri Jul 21 16:50:09 2000
> --- /a/ken/perforce/FreeBSD-current/src/sys/pci/if_ti.c Fri Jul 21 16:49:57 2000
> ***************
> *** 2320,2327 ****
> --- 2320,2329 ----
>         case IFM_AUTO:
>                 CSR_WRITE_4(sc, TI_GCR_GLINK, TI_GLNK_PREF|TI_GLNK_1000MB|
>                     TI_GLNK_FULL_DUPLEX|TI_GLNK_RX_FLOWCTL_Y|
> +                   TI_GLNK_TX_FLOWCTL_Y|
>                     TI_GLNK_AUTONEGENB|TI_GLNK_ENB);
>                 CSR_WRITE_4(sc, TI_GCR_LINK, TI_LNK_100MB|TI_LNK_10MB|
> +                   TI_LNK_TX_FLOWCTL_Y|TI_LNK_RX_FLOWCTL_Y|
>                     TI_LNK_FULL_DUPLEX|TI_LNK_HALF_DUPLEX|
>                     TI_LNK_AUTONEGENB|TI_LNK_ENB);
>                 TI_DO_CMD(TI_CMD_LINK_NEGOTIATION,
> 
> --0OAP2g/MAC+5xKAE--


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 16:36: 0 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Received: from mike.dhis.org (hiper4-d36.stk.cwnet.com [209.142.57.36])
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From: "Mike Muir" <mmuir@es.co.nz>
To: <hardware@freebsd.org>, <question@freebsd.org>,
	<hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject: Specific video hardware support with the advent of the Linux A|W Maya port.
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:35:43 -0700
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Recently, Alias|Wavefront announced they would port Maya to Linux.
    Assuming FreeBSD can emulate the linux binary's (and I have no reason to
think that it won't) then what about support for video hardware (high, mid
and consumer -end) which requires more than just a suitable X server? Take
the case of Nvidia's linux drivers which are comprised of a kernel module
which interfaces with the XFree86 4.0/4.0.1 driver also provided. I havn't
looked into the drivers as I lack the knowledge and experience to even
fathom porting to a freebsd kernel module. I understand there is an element
of closed source with these drivers but i'm unsure whether this is at the
module, or the XFree driver.. to cut to the chase, my question is whether
the porting of a driver such as these is the onus of a FreeBSD contributer,
or is it at Nvidia's discretion? Assuming the element of closed source works
under FreeBSD, then how easy would a port like this be? Or is somebody
working on this case [nvidia's 5.xx linux drivers for Xfree86 4.*] as I
comment?
    On a wider scale, if a vendor provides a driver, or server for X and
their hardware (lets say a particularly high end piece of equipment such as
an Intergraph Wildcat) perhaps specifically with the intention for a Linux
distrubtion which is to be packaged along with this Intergraph system, would
it be reasonable to assume this would also work under FreeBSD or would the
vendor be required to specifically write a version of their driver or server
for FreeBSD? The reason I ask is that I see no reason why the growing field
of animators using tools such as A|W Maya shouldn't opt to use FreeBSD over
Linux (red hat at that) while they're on their way migrating from NT -- OR
kicking off their endevours. What are (if any) the road blocks which could
stop this from happening?

    -mike.



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 18: 6:58 2000
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To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	<freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
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Subject: Re: No help...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 20:04:56 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
To: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>; <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 11:58 PM
Subject: No help...


> I'm most disappointed.  I've been running FreeBSD since version 2, and in
> all this time I've never experience the total lack of any assistance from
> the userbase.  In the past, I've received good advice and help regarding
> FreeBSD-small for embedded systems, which my company has used for our
> embedded server product.  But now... In the past 3 months, I've posted two
> very serious issues I've experienced and the first issue, regarding Bus
> Mastering SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller going into UDMA mode receive *ZERO*
> replies.  Nothing.  And now... my troubles with a 3COM 3C509 NIC has
> received one (rather useless, but thank you Julian.  I appreciate your
> input, even if it had nothing to do with the problem) reply.  This is just
> so disappointing.  I've been using this operating system for about 5 years
> and I used to love it.  The support used to be wonderful.  The hardware
> support used to be wonderful.  Now... its not.  I can't get any of you
folks
> to so much as offer any suggestions (excepting Julian) to my questions,
even
> when I supply ample information regarding the problem, and attempted
> solutions.  I've jumped ship.
>
> After 10 hours of hard work, I successfully migrated my entire server to
> Debian Linux, which I must say, the legacy hardware support is there.
Like
> FreeBSD used to be.  I wish you all well, but I won't be back with FreeBSD
> any time soon.  Not only has the eroding legacy hardware support been a
> great disappointment, the lack of any userbase input regarding my troubles
> with such legacy hardware has been even more disappointing.  I sorrows me
to
> have to file away 5 years of know how and experience with this what used
to
> be wonderful operating system, but the support is gone, the legacy drivers
> are flaky at best.
>
> Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
> (775) 337-2536
> email: larry@pkunk.net
>
>

If I read this correctly, you are saying that past versions of FreeBSD
supported hardware that new versions don't.  Why not stick with those?  I've
got a machine that I run 2.1.5 on just because it still supports my Future
Domain 850 8bit SCSI controller.  (3.x dropped support for this "wonderful"
piece of hardware)  I know I could spend about $40 and get a new SCSI
controller that is better in every way, but this one does what I need it to
do.  To be honest with you, though, I would rather see some support for new
stuff added then to see effort wasted on an obsolete piece of junk that has
no business being used in anything, let alone a server.

Out with the old, in with the new.

Josh
aka "Legacy Man"





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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 18: 8: 2 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:07:43 -0400
To: FreeBSD-Hardware <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
From: Dennis Favro <dennis.favro@utoronto.ca>
Subject: Compaq SystemPro/XL (SCSI) -- FreeBSD Support?
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   I just inherited two Compaq SystemPro XLs.  These machines used to 
run NetWare, but they were given to me stripped of any OS.

   They've got some plenty weird hardware:
Dual 80486s (50MHz) (are dual 486s even supported on *BSD)
Two Compaq 32-Bit Fast SCSI-2 Controllers (EISA, looks like they use 
the NC53C710)
Novell Fibre Adapters (?) (something with a Xilinc XC3030 Controller)
Compaq 32-bit NETFLEX Network Interface Controller (Token Ring & Ethernet)
64MB RAM in many (many!) banks
Onboard SCSI (can't find anything that looks like a SCSI controller 
on the main board, but there's both a 68-pin external connector and a 
50-pin internal connector off the motherboard)

   These machines would make nice, simple servers, but I don't know 
where to start as far as driver support goes.  The SCSI adapters 
aren't supported under any BSD (nor under Linux or Intel Solaris, it 
appears).  I can't even begin to figure out the fibre and ethernet 
cards.

   I managed to get MS-DOS on these things, and could probably 
shoehorn NT given a parallel-port Zip drive and several hours of 
wasted time, but I'd rather one of the BSDs instead.

   Can anyone help?
-- 
--dennis <mailto://dennis.favro@utoronto.ca>
--============_-1247894428==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Compaq SystemPro/XL (SCSI) -- FreeBSD
Support?</title></head><body>
<div>&nbsp; I just inherited two Compaq SystemPro XLs.&nbsp; These
machines used to run NetWare, but they were given to me stripped of
any OS.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp; They've got some plenty weird hardware:</div>
<ul>
<li>Dual 80486s (50MHz) (are dual 486s even supported on *BSD)
<li>Two Compaq 32-Bit Fast SCSI-2 Controllers (EISA, looks like they
use the NC53C710)
<li>Novell Fibre Adapters (?) (something with a Xilinc XC3030
Controller)
<li>Compaq 32-bit NETFLEX Network Interface Controller (Token Ring
&amp; Ethernet)
<li>64MB RAM in many (many!) banks
<li>Onboard SCSI (can't find anything that looks like a SCSI
controller on the main board, but there's both a 68-pin external
connector and a 50-pin internal connector off the motherboard)</ul>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp; These machines would make nice, simple servers, but I
don't know where to start as far as driver support goes.&nbsp; The
SCSI adapters aren't supported under any BSD (nor under Linux or
Intel Solaris, it appears).&nbsp; I can't even begin to figure out
the fibre and ethernet cards.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp; I managed to get MS-DOS on these things, and could
probably shoehorn NT given a parallel-port Zip drive and several
hours of wasted time, but I'd rather one of the BSDs instead.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp; Can anyone help?</div>

<div>-- <br>
--dennis &lt;mailto://dennis.favro@utoronto.ca&gt;</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1247894428==_ma============--


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 18:14: 0 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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To: Dennis Favro <dennis.favro@utoronto.ca>
Cc: FreeBSD-Hardware <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: Compaq SystemPro/XL (SCSI) -- FreeBSD Support? 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:07:43 EDT."
             <p04310100b59e535e8ad1@[10.100.0.7]> 
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>    I just inherited two Compaq SystemPro XLs.  These machines used to 
> run NetWare, but they were given to me stripped of any OS.
> 
>    They've got some plenty weird hardware:
> Dual 80486s (50MHz) (are dual 486s even supported on *BSD)

I don't think we support these systems.  IIRC, the Intel MP spec that we 
depend upon was established for P5-class systems.

> Two Compaq 32-Bit Fast SCSI-2 Controllers (EISA, looks like they use 
> the NC53C710)

If these are actually SCSI controllers, as opposed to RAID controllers, 
we don't support the '710.  If the boards are large and packed with 
components, including some RAM, then they may be old SMART 2 boards, 
which we should support.

> Novell Fibre Adapters (?) (something with a Xilinc XC3030 Controller)
> Compaq 32-bit NETFLEX Network Interface Controller (Token Ring & Ethernet)

Neither of these are supported (unless the Netflex is a clone of
something).

> Onboard SCSI (can't find anything that looks like a SCSI controller 
> on the main board, but there's both a 68-pin external connector and a 
> 50-pin internal connector off the motherboard)

Probably another 710, I'd guess.

>    These machines would make nice, simple servers, but I don't know 
> where to start as far as driver support goes.  The SCSI adapters 
> aren't supported under any BSD (nor under Linux or Intel Solaris, it 
> appears).  I can't even begin to figure out the fibre and ethernet 
> cards.

You're going to be prettymuch SOL, I'm afraid.

-- 
... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his
rivals and unfortunately opponents also.  But not because people want
to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force
people to take different points of view.  [Dr. Fritz Todt]




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 18:54:26 2000
Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
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From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
To: "Josh Paetzel" <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>,
	<freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:54:26 -0700
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I think a medium between maintaining support for legacy hardware, and
developing support for the latest and greatest would be beneficial, to
everyone, whom intends to use this system.

I certainly agree, more effort should be applied toward writing code and
support for the new devices out there, but at the same time, I think a
strong commitment to maintaining legacy code for older devices, especially
when such devices had code in the system before wouldn't be very difficult.

As far as what I choose to run my server on, the choice isn't exactly much
of a choice.  I have what I have, I can't afford to go out a purchase a
nicer system, or sacrifice my workstation to the task of being a server.
It's not a matter of choice, its a matter of.. this is what I have available
to me, for my server.  What will run on it, most efficiently, most reliably
is what I intend to use.  FreeBSD, one of the most excellent options out
there, has failed in this respect.  It's just.. sad.. I miss having it.  But
I don't miss the troubles of coaxing it to work with this machine.

For what it's worth, my Debian box supports what I have well enough, but the
kernel has no where near the extensive device support that FreeBSD does.
But there's, admittedly, some very nice things in here, that differ from
FreeBSD, which I like, and a lot I don't like.  But, as I've said, I want a
reliable box.  It's a tool, not a toy.  I need it to work, all the time.  I
guess this is just all a big pain because that hardware I've managed to
acquire isn't the best stuff around, its all I have, and the support for it
isn't there.  It's basically my own problem for not having better hardware.

If I had the resources to go out and get a better system to run my server,
with FreeBSD, I'd do it.  Immediately.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net

| -----Original Message-----
| From: Josh Paetzel [mailto:jpaetzel@hutchtel.net]
| Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 6:05 PM
| To: Lawrence Cotnam Jr.; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG;
| freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
| Subject: Re: No help...
|
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
| To: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>; <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
| Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 11:58 PM
| Subject: No help...
|
|
| > I'm most disappointed.  I've been running FreeBSD since version
| 2, and in
| > all this time I've never experience the total lack of any
| assistance from
| > the userbase.  In the past, I've received good advice and help regarding
| > FreeBSD-small for embedded systems, which my company has used for our
| > embedded server product.  But now... In the past 3 months, I've
| posted two
| > very serious issues I've experienced and the first issue, regarding Bus
| > Mastering SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller going into UDMA mode
| receive *ZERO*
| > replies.  Nothing.  And now... my troubles with a 3COM 3C509 NIC has
| > received one (rather useless, but thank you Julian.  I appreciate your
| > input, even if it had nothing to do with the problem) reply.
| This is just
| > so disappointing.  I've been using this operating system for
| about 5 years
| > and I used to love it.  The support used to be wonderful.  The hardware
| > support used to be wonderful.  Now... its not.  I can't get any of you
| folks
| > to so much as offer any suggestions (excepting Julian) to my questions,
| even
| > when I supply ample information regarding the problem, and attempted
| > solutions.  I've jumped ship.
| >
| > After 10 hours of hard work, I successfully migrated my entire server to
| > Debian Linux, which I must say, the legacy hardware support is there.
| Like
| > FreeBSD used to be.  I wish you all well, but I won't be back
| with FreeBSD
| > any time soon.  Not only has the eroding legacy hardware support been a
| > great disappointment, the lack of any userbase input regarding
| my troubles
| > with such legacy hardware has been even more disappointing.  I
| sorrows me
| to
| > have to file away 5 years of know how and experience with this what used
| to
| > be wonderful operating system, but the support is gone, the
| legacy drivers
| > are flaky at best.
| >
| > Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
| > (775) 337-2536
| > email: larry@pkunk.net
| >
| >
|
| If I read this correctly, you are saying that past versions of FreeBSD
| supported hardware that new versions don't.  Why not stick with
| those?  I've
| got a machine that I run 2.1.5 on just because it still supports my Future
| Domain 850 8bit SCSI controller.  (3.x dropped support for this
| "wonderful"
| piece of hardware)  I know I could spend about $40 and get a new SCSI
| controller that is better in every way, but this one does what I
| need it to
| do.  To be honest with you, though, I would rather see some
| support for new
| stuff added then to see effort wasted on an obsolete piece of
| junk that has
| no business being used in anything, let alone a server.
|
| Out with the old, in with the new.
|
| Josh
| aka "Legacy Man"
|
|
|



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OK, i read the recent thread about pnp modems. I have
a similar problem. As far as i can tell, it's detected
fine. The only problem is that it's detected like this
(dmesg):

unknown8: <U.S. Robotics 56K Win INT> at port \
0x100-0x107 irq 7 on isa0

until recently, this was the only unknown device
(unknown0). but now it's at 8, and there are 7 others,
that are just memory areas and irq's. no descriptions.

Does that mean that this is a Winmodem? (that "Win" in
the description is suspicious) (i got this modem from
a windows user, so i'm not sure). I thought that
because it was even detected, it wouldn't be a
winmodem. 

Oh yea, i guess i should mention that this is on an
SMP system. (and the motherboard's somewhat crackish.
could that be the problem?)

thanks,
Jesse

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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 23:17:52 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 02:17:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: No help...
In-Reply-To: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGIEEPCBAA.larry@pkunk.net>
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On Thu, 20 Jul 2000, Lawrence Cotnam Jr. wrote:
> I sorrows me to have to file away 5 years of know how and experience
> with this what used to be wonderful operating system, but the support
> is gone, the legacy drivers are flaky at best.

Thats because there aren't enough people that actually USE legacy hardware
working to support the drivers.

I'm aware of a few outstanding 3c509 problems but until I get my test
systems up and running there isn't a whole lot I can do about them.  The
variety of 3c509s out there and the annoying little bugs they exhibit
doesn't make it easy to track down each weird problem a user experiences.

You've had 5 years to get yourself up to speed; why haven't I seen any
patches from you lately?

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 23:25:44 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 02:25:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: Dennis Favro <dennis.favro@utoronto.ca>
Cc: FreeBSD-Hardware <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Compaq SystemPro/XL (SCSI) -- FreeBSD Support?
In-Reply-To: <p04310100b59e535e8ad1@[10.100.0.7]>
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, Dennis Favro wrote:
> Dual 80486s (50MHz) (are dual 486s even supported on *BSD)

Dual 486 not supported.

> Two Compaq 32-Bit Fast SCSI-2 Controllers (EISA, looks like they use 
> the NC53C710)

Not supported.

> Novell Fibre Adapters (?) (something with a Xilinc XC3030 Controller)

Not supported.  Likely these are relabeled FDDI or 100 megabit ARCNET
boards that Novell sold as Mirrored Server Link boards for Netware SFTIII.

> Compaq 32-bit NETFLEX Network Interface Controller (Token Ring & Ethernet)

Not supported.  These cards use the TI TMS380 chipset.  I've been working
on a driver for a while but haven't had much time or inclination to finish
it.

> Onboard SCSI (can't find anything that looks like a SCSI controller 
> on the main board, but there's both a 68-pin external connector and a 
> 50-pin internal connector off the motherboard)

Likely another 53c7xx controller.

>    These machines would make nice, simple servers, but I don't know 
> where to start as far as driver support goes.  The SCSI adapters 
> aren't supported under any BSD (nor under Linux or Intel Solaris, it 
> appears).  I can't even begin to figure out the fibre and ethernet 
> cards.

Go pick up a few AHC-2742T boards on eBay.  You can use any old ISA
ethernet card or a 3c579 EISA board if you're into that sort of thing.

Trying to get the rest of the hardware to work is going to do nothing but
annoy you.  If you -really- want to work on getting the SCSI controllers
supported then email me; I've a few ideas.

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Fri Jul 21 23:34:44 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 02:34:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
Cc: Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>,
	freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, Lawrence Cotnam Jr. wrote:
> I think a medium between maintaining support for legacy hardware, and
> developing support for the latest and greatest would be beneficial, to
> everyone, whom intends to use this system.

I don't think anyone would disagree that legacy hardware support is of
some importance but in reality its fairly difficult to convince developers
to spend lots of time working on drivers for devices that won't work in
the majority of new computers sold today.

> I certainly agree, more effort should be applied toward writing code and
> support for the new devices out there, but at the same time, I think a
> strong commitment to maintaining legacy code for older devices, especially
> when such devices had code in the system before wouldn't be very difficult.

So who is supposed to have this "strong commitment"?  My desire to play
with old hardware only covers so much commitment before I get frusterated
or bored or distracted with something else.  Are you suggesting that this
"strong commitment" be expressed in a staffing budget and if so who's
budget?

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22  0:39:30 2000
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To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>, <sos@freebsd.org>,
	<freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:39:32 -0700
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| -----Original Message-----
| From: Matthew N. Dodd [mailto:winter@jurai.net]
| Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 11:34 PM
| To: Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
| Cc: Josh Paetzel; freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG;
| freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
| Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
|
| > I certainly agree, more effort should be applied toward writing code and
| > support for the new devices out there, but at the same time, I think a
| > strong commitment to maintaining legacy code for older devices,
| especially
| > when such devices had code in the system before wouldn't be
| very difficult.
|
| So who is supposed to have this "strong commitment"?  My desire to play
| with old hardware only covers so much commitment before I get frusterated
| or bored or distracted with something else.  Are you suggesting that this
| "strong commitment" be expressed in a staffing budget and if so who's
| budget?

I don't have all the answers.  I'm just a frustrated user with legacy
hardware.  In the past, that frustration has been with hardware that drivers
existed for, then future releases discontinued support for such hardware.
I'm just confused and don't understand exactly why code that was functional,
usable, was later removed from the distributions.

Honestly, I've taken a whole lot of flak for writing about my frustration.
Maybe I deserve it, or maybe I don't.  But I'm just giving everyone else my
opinion, my experience, and what I felt was the only way to get things here,
in my home office, back on track, so I can get back to work and not have to
worry about it anymore.

As far as patches go, I have here, on my system, the Linux 3COM 3C515 driver
code.  *IF* I had some fixed up SiS 5591 support, I could probably port this
code into the FreeBSD kernel.  Can't be *THAT* hard to adapt the code to
FreeBSD.  I feel up to doing it.  But I already took a stab at fixing the
problems with the SiS 5591 and ended up with a corrupted HD as a result, so
I don't think I can figure out what's going on in there, not on my own, at
least.  Poking the kernel source is something I've done.. maybe 2 or 3
times.

But this frustration is a direct result of just plain being ignored.  Waving
my hands around and going 'Look guys, I'm frustrated, so I'm going to run
something else' got a helluv a lot of attention.  I'm a little disappointed
that's what it took, but now that I have your attention, can we work
together to resolve some of these problems?  I'll list them again.

First, the 3COM 3C509 driver seems to have a problem.  What?  I don't know.
I have symptoms and no answers.  Running MTU 1500 on my LAN results in
stalling.. the server periodically chokes for a few moments every few
moments, during sustained data transfer.  This seems to much more strongly
affect transmission, than reception.  I've seen usually that things go fine
if my workstation sends, and server receives, but stalling occurs when its
the other way around.  Dropping MTU to 1000 (or lower) cures this problem,
but introduces new ones.  My Hub's collision light stays lit solid during
any sustain transfers, in either direction, and twice I experienced a total
freeze of the network layer, where no communication would occur.  Coming in
from the console, pinging out returned 'No buffer space available.'  This
stayed true for about 5 minutes.  I did kill all server daemons and any
active transfers processes.  That's the information I have.  If there's ways
I can provide more, please advise and I'll take the necessary steps to
collect additional diagnostic data.  The 3C515 has zero support.  There is
no driver.

Second, SiS 5591 Bus Mastering IDE controller.  Previously, I ran laptop
1.5G drive on this system.  This drive did not support UDMA.  Everything ran
_PERFECTLY_.  Good performance, no problems, no corruptions.  Then, I pulled
a 13G drive out of my workstation because my server was out of space and put
it in.  The nightmare began.  First, booting GENERIC build of the kernel
results in a total FREEZE of the system just after device probing is
complete and its going to mount the root file system.  Removing the
IDE_ATAPI_DMA_SUPPORT (I might have this spelled not quite right) directive
from the kernel config file and rebuilding does not change anything, the
drivers still detect and enable UDMA.  I modified the source for ata-dma.c,
forcing the UDMA detection to be bypassed myself, and tried that.  Worked,
but HARD WRITE errors began to randomly occur and the drive became
corrupted.  I disabled all ATA drivers in the kernel and used older WD
drivers.  This works, but its slow and makes my server time warp
occasionally (goes backwards, guess because its spending too much time being
interrupted.)

I just wish I had better hardware, but I don't.  The system is a ProTech
Single Board computer on an ISA backplane.  Everything is on that one card
except the NIC, and I have to use ISA NIC's.  I have 3 of them.  3C515,
3C509, and an ancient SMC8000.

So I've put the two problems back on the table here.  I'll do anything
anyone tells me to get more diagnostic data in an effort to cure these two
problems.  If I can get the SiS problem resolved, I can probably port that
3C515 driver over and not even worry about the 3C509, but I'm sure someone
would like it if that got fixed too, so I'd happily offer my help to figure
out what the heck is going on in there that causes the problems I was
seeing.

BTW, I'm dropping this thread from the freebsd-questions group, doesn't feel
like it needs to be in there anymore.  And I'd love to work with you guys to
figure this stuff out and do what I can to help.  That's all I wanted in the
first place, but no one said a thing.  I've also included the people listed
as responsible for these pieces of code.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22  1:11:19 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 04:10:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
Cc: sos@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
In-Reply-To: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGGEFOCBAA.larry@pkunk.net>
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Lawrence Cotnam Jr. wrote:
> I don't have all the answers.  I'm just a frustrated user with legacy
> hardware.  In the past, that frustration has been with hardware that
> drivers existed for, then future releases discontinued support for
> such hardware. I'm just confused and don't understand exactly why code
> that was functional, usable, was later removed from the distributions.

Mostly because the system evolves and old broken infrastructure is
replaced with new, hopefully less broken infrastructure.  This is the case
with the CAM changes and the newbus changes.  While we have not really
lost any drivers to newbus (yet), CAM let us get a good look at how legacy
support really works.  Only those drivers with a dedicated developer
making use of the hardware can be expected to survive massive
infrastructure changes.

> But this frustration is a direct result of just plain being ignored.

# grep -i maintainer /sys/dev/ep/*
/sys/dev/ep/if_ep.c: * MAINTAINER: Matthew N. Dodd <winter@jurai.net>

I'm curious why you didn't email me or file a bug report?  I think you
just choose to ignore the normal channels of support.  While I do make an
attempt to keep up on with all the list traffic, sometimes I miss things.

I'm not sure what to tell you about your problem other than that my
testing of the driver with my hardware didn't reveal the behavior you
observed.  You should really have attempted a better analysis of the fault
using ttcp or something as your description of your problem was rather
vague.

> First, the 3COM 3C509 driver seems to have a problem.  What?  I don't
> know. I have symptoms and no answers.  Running MTU 1500 on my LAN
> results in stalling.. the server periodically chokes for a few moments
> every few moments, during sustained data transfer.  This seems to much
> more strongly affect transmission, than reception.

I recall something similar to this that I experienced with a PCCARD and
the 'ep' driver.  I'm pretty sure that this was fixed at some point or
another (I may be misremembering things here though.)

> That's the information I have.  If there's ways I can provide more,
> please advise and I'll take the necessary steps to collect additional
> diagnostic data.  

- 'dmesg' or contents of /var/run/dmesg.boot
- 'uname -a'
- 'netstat -m' after you start observing the problem with an MTU of 1500.

> The 3C515 has zero support.  There is no driver.

Somehow I doubt that there will ever be one.  100baseTX ISA cards don't
seem to be in great demand.

Not sure what to tell you about your SiS problem but there is a way of
manually disabling DMA mode from the loader that you might try
(hw.atamodes IIRC)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22  7:22:16 2000
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To: Essenz Consulting <john@essenz.com>
Cc: Mike Smith <msmith@freebsd.org>, hackers@freebsd.org,
	hardware@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Intel 840 Chipset Discontinue 
In-Reply-To: <200007212154.OAA01169@mass.osd.bsdi.com>
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Mike Smith writes:
 > > I was told by several of my distributors that all motherboards based off
 > > of the Intel 840 chipset are being discontinued. That means the Supermicro
 > > PIIDM3 and PIIIDME, and any other 840 board.

Hurray! ;-)

 > I have mixed feelings about this, but on the whole I think it's probably 
 > for the best.  I've had really patchy results with the i840, and 
 > performance hasn't been impressive.

While, on the other hand, I cannot say enough good things about the
performance of our Dell PowerEdge 2400 & 4400 machines (both use RCC
chipsets).  What else can you say about machines that will serve NFS
over via gig ether at over 70MB/sec and not break a sweat ;)

 > > Supermicro has two new boards, 370DL3 and 370DLE. Identical in specs to
 > > the 840 boards, but using some kind of "ServerWork LE" chipset. However, I
 > > have also been hearing bad news about these boards as well.
 > 
 > We've had some issues with the RCC chipsets in Dell systems, yes.

All of these are now resolved, aren't they?

 > > Has anyone worked with these boards? Supermicro SAYS that they work fine
 > > under Linux and Solaris. However, one of my distributors says thay they
 > > are extremely touchy when it comes to memory. Only Registered PC133 ECC
 > > memory will work.

This memory requirement probably explains why they perform so well ;)
The RCC chipsets, especially those which use interleaved memory like
in the PE4400, have stunningly good I/O bandwidth for a PC.  They have
over 440MB/sec of I/O bandwidth to a 64-bit 66MHz PCI bus (I've
actually measured it, yes).  They run gig ether at 950Mb/sec with
stock kernels and I've run protype Myrinet boards at over 2Gb/sec
end-to-end with TCP using the zero-copy sockets framework that Ken
Merry has been talking about.

 > > If someone at freebsd.org wants to seriously test these boards, let me
 > > know, and I'll donate one. Without the 840 boards, server configs are now
 > > back to the 440GX days!

We've got a big purchase coming up & I'd love to get my hands on one
of them for testing, but FreeBSD test labs should get priority. 
FWIW, I'm mainly an alpha port committer, but I'm the one who fixed
the RCC peer bus probing issues when we got our Dell 2400 a few months
back..

Anyway, we're looking to replace some of our cluster & would be
looking for 16-24 nodes of them.  We were originally planning to get
Alpha DS10Ls, but the availability of RCC chipsets in a small form
factor may change our minds as the RCC chipset is the only thing that
can compete with the alpha's Tsunami chipset for I/O bandwidth.

Do you know of anybody building 1U or 2U rackmount systems for a
reasonable price ($2000/node or less) around these motherboards?  It
looks like most integrators are using the L44GX & its broken 32-bit
66MHz slot which runs at the wrong voltage (Myrinet claims they're
violating the PCI spec).

Cheers,

Drew

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Gallatin, Sr Systems Programmer	http://www.cs.duke.edu/~gallatin
Duke University				Email: gallatin@cs.duke.edu
Department of Computer Science		Phone: (919) 660-6590





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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 10:53: 9 2000
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From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
To: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Cc: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
> some importance but in reality its fairly difficult to convince developers
> to spend lots of time working on drivers for devices that won't work in
> the majority of new computers sold today.

An Exabyte 8200, for example, is still in farly widespread use, and to 
drop support for it in 4.0 seems a little strange.  After all, it's
not exactly ancient.
> 
> So who is supposed to have this "strong commitment"?  My desire to play
> with old hardware only covers so much commitment before I get frusterated

Devices like tape drives are not cheap... people have investments in
drives like the Exabytes, pefectly good hardware that's far from
useless which still holds a reasonable amount of data and is fairly
quick for home use.  Are we expected to purchase all new hardware
everytime we upgrade?  If so, it appeas that Microsoftitis may be
infecting the brains of some people working on FreeBSD, alas.

--
R. D. Davis                  
rdd@perqlogic.com            
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 
410-744-4900                 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 12:20:54 2000
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From: "Anthony Rubin" <arubin@concentric.net>
To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>,
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Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:26:10 -0500
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What is wrong with you people?  FreeBSD is a free operating system developed
by *volunteers*.  A few of you talk about it like these volunteers owe you
something.  I'm sure the mentality of the FreeBSD development team is not
that they want everyone to upgrade every time a new version comes out, but
someone has to do the work to keep the drivers (amoung other things) up to
date.  The best thing any of you could do is help in some way instead of
complaining.

Anthony Rubin
Hoffman Estates, IL
arubin@concentric.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 14: 9:53 2000
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From: Mark Rowlands <mark.rowlands@minmail.net>
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To: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	<freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: Re: No help...
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On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, Lawrence Cotnam Jr. wrote:
> I'm most disappointed.  I've been running FreeBSD since version 2, and in
> all this time I've never experience the total lack of any assistance from
> the userbase.  In the past, I've received good advice and help regarding
> FreeBSD-small for embedded systems, which my company has used for our
> embedded server product.  But now... In the past 3 months, I've posted two
> very serious issues I've experienced and the first issue, regarding Bus
> Mastering SiS 5591 PCI IDE controller going into UDMA mode receive *ZERO*
> replies.  Nothing.  And now... my troubles with a 3COM 3C509 NIC has
> received one (rather useless, but thank you Julian.  I appreciate your
> input, even if it had nothing to do with the problem) reply.  This is just
> so disappointing.  I've been using this operating system for about 5 years
> and I used to love it.  The support used to be wonderful.  The hardware
> support used to be wonderful.  Now... its not.  I can't get any of you folks
> to so much as offer any suggestions (excepting Julian) to my questions, even
> when I supply ample information regarding the problem, and attempted
> solutions.  I've jumped ship.
> 
> After 10 hours of hard work, I successfully migrated my entire server to
> Debian Linux, which I must say, the legacy hardware support is there.  Like
> FreeBSD used to be.  I wish you all well, but I won't be back with FreeBSD
> any time soon.  Not only has the eroding legacy hardware support been a
> great disappointment, the lack of any userbase input regarding my troubles
> with such legacy hardware has been even more disappointing.  I sorrows me to
> have to file away 5 years of know how and experience with this what used to
> be wonderful operating system, but the support is gone, the legacy drivers
> are flaky at best.
> 
> Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
> (775) 337-2536
> email: larry@pkunk.net
> 
I am really sorry about the lack of support we have all provided you with and
will be returning your check just as soon as I get it ..............

to all the developers and other people who help and contribute to
these  lists please don't let this old sourpuss get you down, I still think
you're all wonderful. 

Mark Rowlands  +4686224510  GMT + 1
_______________________________________________

These opinions are mine, they are just opinions
you are free to disagree, please do so quietly 

_______________________________________________


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 14:12: 9 2000
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To: <mark.rowlands@minmail.net>, <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>,
	<freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>
Subject: RE: No help...
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:11:56 -0700
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| I am really sorry about the lack of support we have all provided
| you with and
| will be returning your check just as soon as I get it ..............
|
| to all the developers and other people who help and contribute to
| these  lists please don't let this old sourpuss get you down, I
| still think
| you're all wonderful.

I think they're wonderful too, now that I have gotten their attention and am
working with them to get some of these problems resolved, for me, for anyone
else who uses the same hardware I do.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 14:33:59 2000
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To: "Anthony Rubin" <arubin@concentric.net>,
	"R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>, "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
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Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Rubin" <arubin@concentric.net>
To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>; "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
Cc: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>; "Josh Paetzel"
<jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>; <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>;
<freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)


> What is wrong with you people?  FreeBSD is a free operating system
developed
> by *volunteers*.  A few of you talk about it like these volunteers owe you
> something.  I'm sure the mentality of the FreeBSD development team is not
> that they want everyone to upgrade every time a new version comes out, but
> someone has to do the work to keep the drivers (amoung other things) up to
> date.  The best thing any of you could do is help in some way instead of
> complaining.
>
> Anthony Rubin
> Hoffman Estates, IL
> arubin@concentric.net
>
>

I agree with this wholeheartedly....and I still have to ask the question:
If you have a version of FBSD that supports your hardware, why are you
upgrading to a version that doesn't?

Josh

>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
>



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 16:44:40 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 19:44:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>
To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
Cc: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10007221342490.26676-100000@smarty.smart.net>
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:
> An Exabyte 8200, for example, is still in farly widespread use, and to
> drop support for it in 4.0 seems a little strange.  After all, it's
> not exactly ancient.

Weird.  My 8200 seems to work just fine under 5.0-CURRENT:

# dmesg | grep ^sa
sa0 at bt0 bus 0 target 6 lun 0
sa0: <EXABYTE EXB-8200 2543> Removable Sequential Access SCSI-CCS device 
sa0: 3.300MB/s transfers
# mt -f /dev/nrsa0 status
Mode      Density              Blocksize      bpi      Compression
Current:  default              variable       0        unsupported
---------available modes---------
0:        default              variable       0        unsupported
1:        default              variable       0        unsupported
2:        default              variable       0        unsupported
3:        default              variable       0        unsupported
---------------------------------
Current Driver State: at rest.
---------------------------------
File Number: 0  Record Number: 0
# tar -tvmf /dev/nrsa0 | more
drwxr-xr-x root/wheel        0 Jan  2 10:59 2000 vmh0/
-rw-r----- root/operator 2097120 Apr 12 23:44 2000 vmh0/quota.user
...

I don't think anyone has talked of dropping support for it.


> Devices like tape drives are not cheap...

If you're paying anything for 8200s then you're getting ripped off.

> people have investments in drives like the Exabytes, pefectly good
> hardware that's far from useless which still holds a reasonable amount
> of data and is fairly quick for home use.  Are we expected to purchase
> all new hardware everytime we upgrade? 

If you're not willing to take some responsibility for devices you depend
on, then yes, as this is a user supported OS.  If you lack clue then
you're expected to working on getting yours up to speed and failing that
providing incentive for capable developers to devote time and energy to
the hardware you wish to see supported, or if nothing else, pay some
contract FreeBSD support group to write the code you need.

> If so, it appeas that Microsoftitis may be infecting the brains of
> some people working on FreeBSD, alas.

If you're not pulling your own weight why should you be able to dictate
the size and shape of my yoke?  (Or anyone elses for that matter.)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| winter@jurai.net |       2 x '84 Volvo 245DL        | ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 17:27:20 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:23:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
To: Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>
Cc: Anthony Rubin <arubin@concentric.net>,
	"Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>,
	"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Josh Paetzel wrote:
> I agree with this wholeheartedly....and I still have to ask the question:
> If you have a version of FBSD that supports your hardware, why are you
> upgrading to a version that doesn't?

Firstly, I'm using relatively new hardware, less than two years old;
the motherboard, which I paid a lot more for than the typical generic
clone board, is manufactured by Mainboard, which was one of the few
boards at the time whose manufacturer guaranteed it to work with
FreeBSD.  The SCSI controller, an Adaptec 1542B, and one of the tape
drives, an Exabyte 8200, are relatively standard - not new, but not
junk either.  The NE2000 compatible eth So, while this isn't brand new
equipment, it's not ancient, still performs more than adequately for
my needs.

I can see support being dropped for things like video and sound cards,
and even ethernet boards, however, dropping support for _tapes_ that
were written using older version of the OS seems more than peculiar.
Making stored data itself obsolete is not a good thing for the
reputation of any operating system, and dropping support for relatively
standard tape drives, even if they're not the latest and greatest, 
doesn't make much sense to me.

Ok, I know the saying, "you get what you pay for," so, perhaps anyone
who's really serious about the integrity of their data, who also wants
to be able to run the latest versions of some pieces of software, and
new software, really should consider a commercial OS.  If enough
people bought a commercial version of BSD, the price could come down,
and then users, as customers, could ask for features that they need.
As I've stated before, I greatly appreciate the work that's gone into
FreeBSD, and am only remarking about one aspect of it - not just
because I'm affected, but because others have, and will have, similar
problems, that could be avoided if those working on certain aspects of
FreeBSD would not be so quick to drop support for hardware, and
_written tapes_, that are not exactly ancient.

I upgraded because there were no obvious signs or warnings, about
problems with compatibility, or about upgrading from 2.2.5 (sorry, I
was thinking it was 2.2.4). Interestingly, there's nothing about this
lack of compatibility, or a problem with upgrading, which appears on
the WWW page where the CDs are sold, and it's also not obvious by
looking at the FreeBSD web site.  At least something could be
mentioned on those web sites as a courtesy to users with older
versions who are considering upgrading so as to be able to install new
software packages that weren't available for the older versions. 

Anyway, now I've split my new hard drive so that I can have both 2.2.5
and 4.0 installed on it, and recovered my personal data from a backup.
While 4.0 seems rather nice, it still won't work with my Exabyte 8200
8mm drive.  I'll test it again with the SureStore 4mm DAT drive - I
think the problem with that was a bad tape, as I can't retore from it
using 2.2.5 either.  Also, the problem with my NE2000 compatible
ethernet board not working with 4.0 still exists.

If no one is supporting these tape drives, which were formerly
supported, and support for other devices is discontinued, could
someone please make this obvious on the WWW pages so that people don't
waste their money on CDs that are useless to them?  While FreeBSD is
free, the CD-ROMs are not free, and consumers should be able to avoid
being ripped off (sorry if this offends anyone, but that's exactly
what happens when one buys a product in good faith and discovers that
it's not useable) by being told that they can't (a) upgrade directly
to it, (b) that some of their computer hardware won't work with it and
(c) that a backup and restore will be required.


--
R. D. Davis                  
rdd@perqlogic.com            
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 
410-744-4900                 



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 18:39:39 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:39:11 -0500
From: Dan Nelson <dnelson@emsphone.com>
To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
Cc: Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>,
	Anthony Rubin <arubin@concentric.net>,
	"Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>,
	"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
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Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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In the last episode (Jul 22), R. D. Davis said:
> Firstly, I'm using relatively new hardware, less than two years old;
> the motherboard, which I paid a lot more for than the typical generic
> clone board, is manufactured by Mainboard, which was one of the few
> boards at the time whose manufacturer guaranteed it to work with
> FreeBSD.  The SCSI controller, an Adaptec 1542B, and one of the tape
> drives, an Exabyte 8200, are relatively standard - not new, but not

I can tell you that SCSI Exabytes drives are most definitely supported. 
The only tape drives FreeBSD has ever dropped support for are tapes
driven off the floppy controller (ft device).  At work, we have
Exabyte, 3480, and ** 9-track ** tape drives hanging off 4.0-stable
boxes, some off 1542 controllers.

All I can think is maybe your Exabyte is set to the same SCSI ID as
another device on your bus, or there is a termination problem affecting
the device probe.

-- 
	Dan Nelson
	dnelson@emsphone.com


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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 19:29:37 2000
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 22:27:13 -0400
From: Neill Robins <freebsd@nc.rr.com>
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To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
Cc: Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>,
	Anthony Rubin <arubin@concentric.net>,
	"Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>,
	"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	<freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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RDD> If no one is supporting these tape drives, which were formerly
RDD> supported, and support for other devices is discontinued, could
RDD> someone please make this obvious on the WWW pages so that people don't
RDD> waste their money on CDs that are useless to them?

Something must be wrong, because according to:
ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/4.0-RELEASE/HARDWARE.TXT

"With all supported SCSI controllers, full support is provided for
SCSI-I & SCSI-II peripherals, including hard disks, optical disks,
tape drives (including DAT and 8mm Exabyte), medium changers, processor
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^
target devices and CDROM drives.  WORM devices that support CDROM commands
are supported for read-only access by the CDROM driver.  WORM/CD-R/CD-RW
writing support is provided by cdrecord, which is in the ports tree."

Best regards,
Neill
freebsd@nc.rr.com




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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 20:13: 0 2000
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From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>
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Subject: Um.. Oops!
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OK.  I blew it.  I've been corresponding with Matthew Dodd and it seems I
have some mode some very stupid mistakes in my network configuration.  Like
setting one station to full-duplex with a dumb hub.  So I'm apologize here.
My stupidity.  My bad.  I apparently just don't know what the heck I'm
doing.

I'll now just walk away and thank everyone for putting up with my stupidity.
Again, I'm sorry.  If there's anything anyone needs from me, just let me
know.

Big thanks to Matthew for putting up with me.  I guess it works.  I won't
know, because I can't even boot the system.  I do plan on doing some
additional testing for Matthew, but I am sorry for making a big stink when I
was being stupid and just didn't even know it.  Sorry I wasted your time.

Lawrence Cotnam Jr.
(775) 337-2536
email: larry@pkunk.net



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 21:55:36 2000
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From: Andrew MacIntyre <andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au>
To: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>,
	"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
	freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Legacy Device Support (Was RE: No help...)
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On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:
> > some importance but in reality its fairly difficult to convince developers
> > to spend lots of time working on drivers for devices that won't work in
> > the majority of new computers sold today.
> 
> An Exabyte 8200, for example, is still in farly widespread use, and to 
> drop support for it in 4.0 seems a little strange.  After all, it's
> not exactly ancient.

If its a SCSI tape drive, and it had a "rogue" entry prior to the CAM
changes (3.x), then perhaps you might like to look at whether the CAM
system can be updated to deal with its idiosyncracies.  SCSI tape drives
are definitely supported.

--
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andrew.macintyre@aba.gov.au    (work) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au  (play) |        Belconnen  ACT  2616
        andymac@pcug.org.au           (play2) |        Australia



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From owner-freebsd-hardware  Sat Jul 22 23: 0:22 2000
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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 01:58:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd@smart.net>
To: Andrew MacIntyre <andymac@bullseye.apana.org.au>
Cc: "Matthew N. Dodd" <winter@jurai.net>,
	"Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net>,
	Josh Paetzel <jpaetzel@hutchtel.net>, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG,
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Subject: Thanks and apology - and medical office software inquiry (was: Legacy
 Device Support (Was RE: No help...))
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Greetings,

To all of those who've worked hard to create and continue the
development of FreeBSD, I apologize if what I wrote about my system
crash after the upgrade and the difficulty getting the tape drives and
ethernet to work seemed like flames.  No flames were intended.  All
that aside, which is hopefully just a very temporary problem, I still
think that FreeBSD is a great OS - the exact opposite of that horrid
Microcrud^H^H^H^Hsoft.  Foolishly I tried the upgrade just before I
needed to use my FreeBSD box to research and write a paper pertaining
to something Microsoft's involved in. 

Now that 2.2.5 is reinstalled on part of my hard drive (4.0 will be
on the other), so I can get on with some work, it feels great to
have this system back again! 

BTW, I successfully installed version 4.0 of FreeBSD on a system at
work last week. :-) Thanks again!

Speaking of Microsoft, beware: they're sending platoons of sales goons
to physicians offices, etc. to sell Healtheon/WebMD products for
claims processing, etc., possibly with the goal of displacing
non-Microsoft and non-Healtheon-related systems used for medical
information processing (this involves transferring patient information
over the Internet); that's not all, the marketing goons they send out
don't deny that they want to use the access they get to your medical
records for a certain purpose: to make money by selling the
information to other companies - profiting from their access to your
"confidential" medical data.  It also appears that WebMD could
possibly be in the business of providing medical information that may
be slanted a tad in favor of big business at the expense of your
health - check it out and see what conclusion you draw, based upon the
businesses involved.

Is anyone writing any medical claims processing, or any other medical
software - commercial or free, using FreeBSD?

Have a great weekend!

--
R. D. Davis                  
rdd@perqlogic.com            
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 
410-744-4900                 



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