From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 3 11:36: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5865637B405 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:35:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 48E3C239A05; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:35:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 11:35:56 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Chip Wiegand Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: email, email, email, :-( Message-ID: <20020203193556.GA67207@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <3C5BA9B8.7070606@wiegand.org> <20020202135508.B9530@xor.obsecurity.org> <20020202214136.31377fa3.chip@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6TrnltStXW4iwmi0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020202214136.31377fa3.chip@wiegand.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2002-02-02 21:41 -0800, Chip Wiegand wrote: >=20 > SHELL=3D/usr/bin/sh #Use the Bourne shell (check your path!) > MAILDIR=3D${HOME}/Mail #First check what your mail directory i= s! > LOGFILE=3D${MAILDIR}/procmail.log > LOG=3D"--- Logging ${LOGFILE} for ${LOGNAME}, " Your $SHELL is wrong. The $LOG line is superfluous too. Finally,=20 you haven't set a $DEFAULT. Man procmailrc for info on all of these. Here are some recommended settings; this is a complete working =2Eprocmailrc that you can add on to after you have your setup working: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D SHELL=3D/bin/sh PATH=3D"$HOME/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/s= bin" MAILDIR=3D$HOME/Mail DEFAULT=3D"inbox" LOGFILE=3D$MAILDIR/log LOGABSTRACT=3Dall # Explicitly catch mail in $DEFAULT, even though procmail does it too. :0 : $DEFAULT =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > I also tried the following line in .forward (without the above line), and= it didn't work either - Taken from the http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/info/procti= ps.html site again --- >=20 > "|IFS=3D''&& exec /usr/local/bin/procmail || exit 75 #myid" This isn't quite right either. Use this, exactly like it is here (quotes and all): "|IFS=3D' ' && exec /usr/local/bin/procmail -f- || exit 75 #chip" > When I start Mutt I get the error ---- >=20 > /var/mail/chip: no such file or directory (errorno =3D 2) You need to set the 'mailboxes' variable in your .muttrc to point to your new inbox location, $HOME/Mail/inbox. Once you've got all this working, you can add FreeBSD-list mailbox filtering by placing the contents of the file below in your =2Eprocmailrc (before the $DEFAULT recipe). http://zer0.org/~gsutter/tmp/bsd.rc Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Frotz! mailto:gsutter@zer0.org=20 http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/=20 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: '' iD4DBQE8XZEcIBUx1YRd/t0RAlixAJUW+vChw0FhetQvXwS/JHP2Sih9AJ0U0Z/8 /LSK1RCv9iKbZZQJYELJ/w== =T55Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6TrnltStXW4iwmi0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 3 22:26:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5DD37B416 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 22:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16025; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 23:26:42 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020203093923.01d477a0@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:40:27 -0700 To: The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD Chat From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: silly question In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020202152605.01d332a0@threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 01:26 PM 2/2/2002, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: >I was just sitting here thumbing through a magazine and I got to >wondering...just who is Dr. Dobb? It's an amalgamation of the names of the magazine's founders. The magazine was originally called "Dr. Dobbs' Journal of Computer Calisthenics and Orthordontia." --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 3 22:27: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1806537B417 for ; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 22:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16029; Sun, 3 Feb 2002 23:26:44 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020203093644.01d4a990@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:43:06 -0700 To: chip , freebsd chat From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: email, email, email, :-( In-Reply-To: <3C5BA9B8.7070606@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The best e-mail client that has not been utterly killed by Microsoft Outlook (which caused several companies to drop promising products when it appeared in MS Office) is Eudora Pro. It works under WINE, I'm told, in both the paid mode and the free "Lite" mode. --Brett At 01:56 AM 2/2/2002, chip wrote: >I am dissatisfied with the gui mail clients. Netscape6 mail does everything I desire but is slower than a slug. I've tried at least 8 or 10, maybe more, other gui mail clients from the ports and none of them contain all the features of netscape mail but they are all faster. Some won't install at all, some won't connect to my isp's pop server (some will), some are missing too many desired features auto-downloading messages and filtering. >So, with that said, I installed Pine and Procmail. I've used Pine a bit in the past at the University, so I am familiar with it. What do I need a pretty gui for anyway, right? I thought procmail could download my email from my isp's pop server, but don't see how. Maybe I need another app yet? >What do some of you guys use, to download, filter, and read your mail from so many mail lists? > >-- >Chip Wiegand >www.wiegand.org > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 4 9:53:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from zork.punq.net (punq.net [207.154.84.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C4DF37B404 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18230 invoked by uid 1000); 4 Feb 2002 17:53:51 -0000 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:53:51 -0800 From: Marcus Reid To: chip Cc: freebsd chat Subject: Re: email, email, email, :-( Message-ID: <20020204095351.A17963@blazingdot.com> References: <3C5BA9B8.7070606@wiegand.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3C5BA9B8.7070606@wiegand.org>; from chip@wiegand.org on Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 12:56:24AM -0800 Coffee-Level: high Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 12:56:24AM -0800, chip wrote: > What do some of you guys use, to download, filter, and read your mail > from so many mail lists? I use qmail as an MTA and Mutt as MUA. I subscribe to each list with a different email address, such as marcus-crypto-qmail@xxx.xxx and have a .qmail file such as .qmail-crypto-qmail deliver the emails into a tree of Maildirs in ~/email. Once the email's in the box, you can't beat Mutt with a stick. As a pleasant side effect, spambots pick up email addresses that I can stop accepting mail for if the spam gets bad (after I unsub the list, of course..) -- Marcus L. Reid Public Key ID DA2C3C46 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 4 10:59: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD7337B42A for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6DEA6239A09; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:58:54 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Bill Swingle Cc: freebsd chat Subject: Re: email, email, email, :-( Message-ID: <20020204185854.GB67207@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <3C5BA9B8.7070606@wiegand.org> <20020202124759.GA5234@klapaucius.zer0.org> <20020202160635.GA37013@dub.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020202160635.GA37013@dub.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Organization: Zer0 X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2002-02-02 08:06 -0800, Bill Swingle wrote: > I have to heartily agree with Greg here. I don't use procmail+mutt is > the way to go. I even have keybindings that grab info out of email > headers to put in my .procmail 'spammers' list. Very cool. Also, mutt > these days will handle even the largest mailbox, something that pine and > elm will choke on. Bill, Post 'em already please! :) Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm mailto:gsutter@zer0.org for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll http://www.zer0.org/~gsutter/ be warm for the rest of his life.=20 hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: '' iD8DBQE8XtnuIBUx1YRd/t0RApIFAJ9s9MxzUVFjO2uRfZuMnFFKZYZ8wACfZ1MY dzp8gWpuHbRlZwqVq5k3WE0= =5u4o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wzJLGUyc3ArbnUjN-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 5 14: 8:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (rly-ip02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA3D37B42A; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from logs-mtc-tg.proxy.aol.com (logs-mtc-tg.proxy.aol.com [64.12.102.135]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA22393; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from bhandarisky (ACA54A92.ipt.aol.com [172.165.74.146]) by logs-mtc-tg.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g15GD3E148337; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:13:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200202051613.g15GD3E148337@logs-mtc-tg.proxy.aol.com> From: Memory Call Organization: Memory Call X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High Subject: Phone Card to Nepal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:01:40 -0800 To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Memory Call 275 E. OKEEFE ST #6 E. PALO ALTO CA 94303 1-866-MEMORY-2 650-329-7865 call4memory@aol.com Dear Nepal Callers, Namaste, Now our phone card is working in good condition...... good connection.....no connection fee.... $10 ---- 30 minutes. Please call us toll free 1-866-MEMORY-2 (1-866-636-6792) Thank you, The Memory Call Team NEVER SEND SPAM. IT IS BAD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 5 18:11:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cache1.hck.carroll.com (cache1.hck.carroll.com [216.44.20.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0DF37B430 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sprig.tougas.net ([216.44.20.42] verified) by cache1.hck.carroll.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.2.4) with ESMTP id 7551627; Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:11:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:10:27 -0500 From: Damien Tougas To: chip Cc: freebsd chat Subject: Re: email, email, email, :-( Message-ID: <8100000.1012961427@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020203093644.01d4a990@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020203093644.01d4a990@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.2 (Linux/x86) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Mulberry is probably the most powerful GUI e-mail client I have used, especially for IMAP, but it also works very will with POP3 servers. You have to run it in Linux emulation and it is not free, but it IMO it is well worth the money. http://www.cyrusoft.com --- Damien Tougas --On Sunday, February 03, 2002 09:43:06 -0700 Brett Glass wrote: > The best e-mail client that has not been utterly killed by > Microsoft Outlook (which caused several companies to drop > promising products when it appeared in MS Office) is > Eudora Pro. It works under WINE, I'm told, in both the > paid mode and the free "Lite" mode. > > --Brett > > At 01:56 AM 2/2/2002, chip wrote: > >> I am dissatisfied with the gui mail clients. Netscape6 mail does >> everything I desire but is slower than a slug. I've tried at least 8 >> or 10, maybe more, other gui mail clients from the ports and none of >> them contain all the features of netscape mail but they are all >> faster. Some won't install at all, some won't connect to my isp's >> pop server (some will), some are missing too many desired features >> auto-downloading messages and filtering. So, with that said, I >> installed Pine and Procmail. I've used Pine a bit in the past at the >> University, so I am familiar with it. What do I need a pretty gui >> for anyway, right? I thought procmail could download my email from >> my isp's pop server, but don't see how. Maybe I need another app yet? >> What do some of you guys use, to download, filter, and read your >> mail from so many mail lists? >> >> -- >> Chip Wiegand >> www.wiegand.org >> >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > --- Damien Tougas To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 15:35:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kcpgb-mime01.KVAERNER.COM (kcpgb-mime01.kvaerner.com [193.132.79.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B16F37B404 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com (unverified) by kcpgb-mime01.KVAERNER.COM (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:34:20 +0000 Received: by kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:35:18 -0000 Message-ID: From: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Historical /usr/local Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:34:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Does anyone know the reason we have a /usr/local and a /usr? /usr/local would seem to be implied. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 15:47:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from pogo.caustic.org (caustic.org [64.163.147.186]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF00137B425 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (jan@localhost) by pogo.caustic.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g16Nld539495; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:47:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jan@caustic.org) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:47:38 -0800 (PST) From: "f.johan.beisser" X-X-Sender: jan@localhost To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020206154630.O21734-100000@localhost> X-Ignore: This statement isn't supposed to be read by you X-TO-THE-FBI-CIA-AND-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > Does anyone know the reason we have a /usr/local and a /usr? /usr/local > would seem to be implied. care to expound on that a little? i'm not sure i understand the question.. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 15:57:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kcpgb-mime01.KVAERNER.COM (kcpgb-mime01.kvaerner.com [193.132.79.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EED37B420 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com (unverified) by kcpgb-mime01.KVAERNER.COM (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:56:17 +0000 Received: by kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:57:15 -0000 Message-ID: From: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com To: jan@caustic.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Historical /usr/local Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:57:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org /usr is "local" to the machine. /usr/local is also "local". I guess the only case when /usr is not local is if its nfs mounted-but that can't be the reason. I realize the convention is that add-on programs go to /usr/local similar to /opt in slowaris but the terminology or historical basis eludes me. > -----Original Message----- > From: f.johan.beisser [mailto:jan@caustic.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:48 PM > To: Lyons, Kevin KOGFD US > Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local > > > On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > > > Does anyone know the reason we have a /usr/local and a > /usr? /usr/local > > would seem to be implied. > > care to expound on that a little? i'm not sure i understand > the question.. > > -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan jan@caustic.org > "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse > of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 15:59:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864D337B421 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id AA2415341; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:59:14 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: jan@caustic.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Feb 2002 00:59:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 14 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com writes: > /usr is "local" to the machine. /usr/local is also "local". I guess the > only case when /usr is not local is if its nfs mounted-but that can't be the > reason. I realize the convention is that add-on programs go to /usr/local > similar to /opt in slowaris but the terminology or historical basis eludes > me. /usr/local contains site-local binaries and data, i.e. binaries and data that are not part of the operating system itself but have been developed locally or obtained from third-party vendors. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 16: 9:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from kcpgb-mime02.kvaerner.com (kcpgb-mime02.kvaerner.com [193.132.79.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C209A37B41B for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com (unverified) by kcpgb-mime02.kvaerner.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:07:51 +0000 Received: by kcpgb-bb02.messaging.kvaerner.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:08:37 -0000 Message-ID: From: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com To: des@ofug.org Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Historical /usr/local Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:08:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org OK. /usr/sbin/named would be third-party. a "developed locally" example is a system adminstrator who writes a utility for his machine and should put it there? > -----Original Message----- > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav [mailto:des@ofug.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:59 PM > To: Lyons, Kevin KOGFD US > Cc: jan@caustic.org; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local > > > Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com writes: > > /usr is "local" to the machine. /usr/local is also > "local". I guess the > > only case when /usr is not local is if its nfs mounted-but > that can't be the > > reason. I realize the convention is that add-on programs > go to /usr/local > > similar to /opt in slowaris but the terminology or > historical basis eludes > > me. > > /usr/local contains site-local binaries and data, i.e. binaries and > data that are not part of the operating system itself but have been > developed locally or obtained from third-party vendors. > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 16:29:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from magnesium.net (toxic.magnesium.net [207.154.84.15]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6577E37B41F for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25374 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Feb 2002 00:29:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:29:42 -0800 From: Bill Swingle To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: des@ofug.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local Message-ID: <20020207002942.GA24863@dub.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-Operating-System: FreeBSD toxic.magnesium.net 4.5-STABLE FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable /usr/sbin/named is indeed thrid party but it's part of the base system and maintained by the freebsd developers. In this case 'maintained' means importing/mergeing new versions of bind/named into the FreeBSD src tree. You'll notice that thrid party apps that are in the base system are in a different part of the src tree (/usr/src/contrib). See hier(7) for info on what the different parts of the layout are for.=20 -Bill On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:08:33AM -0000, Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > OK. /usr/sbin/named would be third-party. a "developed locally" example= is > a system adminstrator who writes a utility for his machine and should put= it > there?=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav [mailto:des@ofug.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:59 PM > > To: Lyons, Kevin KOGFD US > > Cc: jan@caustic.org; freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local > >=20 > >=20 > > Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com writes: > > > /usr is "local" to the machine. /usr/local is also=20 > > "local". I guess the > > > only case when /usr is not local is if its nfs mounted-but=20 > > that can't be the > > > reason. I realize the convention is that add-on programs=20 > > go to /usr/local > > > similar to /opt in slowaris but the terminology or=20 > > historical basis eludes > > > me. > >=20 > > /usr/local contains site-local binaries and data, i.e. binaries and > > data that are not part of the operating system itself but have been > > developed locally or obtained from third-party vendors. > >=20 > > DES > > --=20 > > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message --=20 -=3D| Bill Swingle - -=3D| Every message PGP signed -=3D| Fingerprint: C1E3 49D1 EFC9 3EE0 EA6E 6414 5200 1C95 8E09 0223 -=3D| "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers" Pablo Picasso= =20 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Ycp2UgAclY4JAiMRAmLCAKCvrNbAliAvnMS5mKr9i/OFoLThRgCfWsjj 8X6L38UtgTgCWGWYevQTdqM= =2qOv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 18:46:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948F637B425 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0137.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.137] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16YeZt-0003lT-00; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:46:36 -0800 Message-ID: <3C61EA79.8FDA5945@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:46:17 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > Does anyone know the reason we have a /usr/local and a /usr? /usr/local > would seem to be implied. THis was just discussed. o To permit /usr to be NFS mounted read only. o To permit /usr/local to be a shared "application store" from a central server (also read-only). o "/usr/local" is less ugly than "/opt". -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 18:51:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B2737B416 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0137.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.137] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Yef3-0002zx-00; Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:51:45 -0800 Message-ID: <3C61EBB7.CC2CC725@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:51:35 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: des@ofug.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > OK. /usr/sbin/named would be third-party. a "developed locally" example is > a system adminstrator who writes a utility for his machine and should put it > there? No, named is not "third party". FreeBSD is an OEM with regard to named (i.e. it is distributed as part of the OS). Many people often complain about this, but without a seperation of the resolver library into a "libresolv" seperate from libc (ELF permits linking libc against libresolv, so no Makefile's would need to be killed in making that movie), it's really very integral to the system, and can't be easily seperated. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 20:48:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from guru.mired.org (dsl-64-192-6-133.telocity.com [64.192.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B8C4837B41C for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 21418 invoked by uid 100); 7 Feb 2002 04:48:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15458.1805.303462.289494@guru.mired.org> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:48:13 -0600 To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local In-Reply-To: <3C61EBB7.CC2CC725@mindspring.com> References: <3C61EBB7.CC2CC725@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ From: "Mike Meyer" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.44 (Python 2.2; freebsd-4.5-STABLE-i386) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert types: > Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com wrote: > > OK. /usr/sbin/named would be third-party. a "developed locally" example is > > a system adminstrator who writes a utility for his machine and should put it > > there? > No, named is not "third party". FreeBSD is an OEM with > regard to named (i.e. it is distributed as part of the > OS). My touchstone question is "Where do the local support people go for help if something is wrong with it?" If the answer is "The system vendors support mechanisms", then it belongs in /usr. Otherwise, it goes in /usr/local. If you have a problem with named on FreeBSD, you go to the FreeBSD lists. I claim that this puts ports in the /usr category, but that's a different flame war. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 21:35:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp013.mail.yahoo.com (smtp013.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.57]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F412537B41D for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 21:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from h0050180208a5.ne.mediaone.net (HELO quinn) (65.96.80.20) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2002 05:35:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:35:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org To: "Mike Meyer" From: Justin White In-Reply-To: <15458.1805.303462.289494@guru.mired.org> Message-Id: <8D1FF6A8-1B8C-11D6-8293-000393092F82@yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 11:48 , Mike Meyer wrote: > I claim that this puts ports in the /usr > category, but that's a different flame war. > > ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 21:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22268 invoked by uid 100); 7 Feb 2002 05:48:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15458.5419.840111.681913@guru.mired.org> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:48:27 -0600 To: Justin White Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local In-Reply-To: <8D1FF6A8-1B8C-11D6-8293-000393092F82@yahoo.com> References: <15458.1805.303462.289494@guru.mired.org> <8D1FF6A8-1B8C-11D6-8293-000393092F82@yahoo.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ From: "Mike Meyer" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.44 (Python 2.2; freebsd-4.5-STABLE-i386) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Justin White types: > On Wednesday, February 6, 2002, at 11:48 , Mike Meyer wrote: > > I claim that this puts ports in the /usr > > category, but that's a different flame war. > the ports "collection" could be considered part of the base. but the > "ports collection" just consists of the makefiles, pkg* info, and the > patches. the ported apps themselves would considered third-party IMO > (for the most part, although if a local patch breaks something, that > would be a freebsd help thing.) The last bit is the critical one - if a ported application breaks, you don't contact the application developers, you contact the port maintainer. Those two may be the same person, but they may not. I even send patches to port maintainers. Not only can they add the patch to the port so it's fixed in FreeBSD, they probably have an existing working relationship with the developer, and are thus more likely to get the patch into the next release. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 22:14:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5103F37B41D for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mustang.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp0.lariat.org@lariat.org [12.23.109.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02728; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:14:14 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020206231030.00bcb630@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:14:08 -0700 To: Terry Lambert , Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com From: Brett Glass Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local Cc: des@ofug.org, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <3C61EBB7.CC2CC725@mindspring.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 07:51 PM 2/6/2002, Terry Lambert wrote: >No, named is not "third party". FreeBSD is an OEM with >regard to named (i.e. it is distributed as part of the >OS). Just because something is distributed with the OS does not mean that it isn't "third party." The FreeBSD Core Team doesn't develop Perl, for example. It's been said before -- and justifiably -- that one of the biggest pains one encounters when maintaining FreeBSD systems is updating third party applications that are included in the base install. One often has to play subtle tricks, or do a lot of shuffling, to get a newer version installed on top of the old. --Brett To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 6 23:59:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail3.rambler.ru (mail3.rambler.ru [217.73.192.32]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A316237B421 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 23:59:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 216.5.73.30 by rambler.ru with SMTP id AA25025 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:52:57 +0300 (MSK) From: Доброжелатель To: "" <> Subject: как люди зарабатывают в интернете??? Organization: нету такой! :) Reply-To: S-AS@yandex.ru X-Mailer: X-Mailer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:55:05 +0300 Message-Id: <3C623259.AA25025@mail3.rambler.ru> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Доброго времени суток! Если Вам интересно, как люди зарабатывают деньги в сети интернет и вы сами хотите ихзарабатывать... То $5 + немного усердия = получайте деньги всю жизнь Подробности: http://5dolors.non.ru или http://5dolors.maza.ru/ Зарегистрировавшись, вы получите бесплатную консультацию и набор программ необходимых для работы!!! Желаю удачи! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 0:46:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE66737B422 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 00:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 42B9B5343; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:46:18 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Historical /usr/local References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:46:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Kevin.Lyons@kvaerner.com writes: > OK. /usr/sbin/named would be third-party. No, BIND 8 is part of the base system. BIND 9, on the other hand, would fit the description. > a "developed locally" example is > a system adminstrator who writes a utility for his machine and should put it > there? Yes. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 10: 3: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from donut.efs.org (donut.efs.org [216.141.160.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A15037B41A for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sargon.photon.com (ritz.photon.com [216.141.160.144]) by donut.efs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6137C5BDC for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:05:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:59:56 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Wilbur X-Sender: matt@sargon.photon.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: diskless freebsd cluster Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I just wanted to say, to the entire FreeBSD team, especially everyone involved with pxe support, rc.diskless[1,2], mfs, and gigabit nic support, THANKS! You ROCK! I just got a 16 node diskless cluster of 1.4GHz Athlons (dual 1GHz p3 server) up and running 4.5-RELEASE, and it was SO much easier than it used to be.. The cluster has two "primary" uses, one is to do high volume number crunching, the other is for a parallelized port of one of our toolkits for a particular customer, who is insisting on a Scyld Linux "beowulf". The original plan was to port our crunching codes from FreeBSD to Linux (sigh), but since it took about a day to build a second system disk running FreeBSD (and a port would've taken at least a week or two), that is far more cost effective in the short. Hopefully I can build a mini scyld cluster for development only and we can stick with FreeBSD.. Why diskless? We're doing diskless because the codes we're currently using are CPU intensive, with little file i/o, and because the lab it's operating in has restricted access, its far easier to operate diskless for media accounting reasons, especially if/when N goes from 16 to say, 64..or if we want to wheel the rack out of the lab and operate "outside". I'm getting 97% user CPU on all nodes when I hammer the system with runs, I can live with that.. The network is 100baseT to the client nodes, 1000baseSX server->switch. For what it's worth, the crunching used to happen on Origin 200s. Of two primary codes we run, code A would take about the same time on freebsd on a p3-1GHz as it did on a 270MHz r12000. Code B ran three times faster on a p3-1GHz than on the 270MHz r12k. Our cost savings are phenomenal using commodity hardware and a great OS. If anyone would find the setup/configuration of interest I can document how I set it up and throw it up somewhere for your perusal.. again, THANK YOU! Matt Wilbur To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 10:12:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail007.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail007.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.231]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6CE237B423 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:12:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from optusnet.com.au (golax6-173.dialup.optusnet.com.au [211.28.134.173]) by mail007.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g17ICSm30413 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 05:12:28 +1100 Message-ID: <3C62C44A.D63FB405@optusnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 04:15:38 +1000 From: Ian Pulsford X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: diskless freebsd cluster References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matt Wilbur wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just wanted to say, to the entire FreeBSD team, especially everyone > involved with pxe support, rc.diskless[1,2], mfs, and gigabit nic support, > THANKS! You ROCK! > > I just got a 16 node diskless cluster of 1.4GHz Athlons (dual 1GHz p3 > server) up and running 4.5-RELEASE, and it was SO much easier than it used > to be.. > > The cluster has two "primary" uses, one is to do high volume number > crunching, the other is for a parallelized port of one of our > toolkits for a particular customer, who is insisting on a Scyld Linux > "beowulf". The original plan was to port our crunching codes from FreeBSD > to Linux (sigh), but since it took about a day to build a second system > disk running FreeBSD (and a port would've taken at least a week or two), > that is far more cost effective in the short. Hopefully I can build a > mini scyld cluster for development only and we can stick with FreeBSD.. > > Why diskless? We're doing diskless because the codes we're currently > using are CPU intensive, with little file i/o, and because the lab it's > operating in has restricted access, its far easier to operate diskless for > media accounting reasons, especially if/when N goes from 16 to say, > 64..or if we want to wheel the rack out of the lab and operate > "outside". I'm getting 97% user CPU on all nodes when I hammer the system > with runs, I can live with that.. The network is 100baseT to the client > nodes, 1000baseSX server->switch. > > For what it's worth, the crunching used to happen on Origin 200s. Of two > primary codes we run, code A would take about the same time on freebsd on > a p3-1GHz as it did on a 270MHz r12000. Code B ran three times faster > on a p3-1GHz than on the 270MHz r12k. Our cost savings are phenomenal > using commodity hardware and a great OS. > > If anyone would find the setup/configuration of interest I can document > how I set it up and throw it up somewhere for your perusal.. It would be neat if you could turn this into a Daemon news article. (BTW, I'm not the one to contact.) Ian To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 10:57:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (pc-62-31-42-140-hy.blueyonder.co.uk [62.31.42.140]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E435837B420 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g17IaW217856; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:36:32 GMT (envelope-from nik) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:36:32 +0000 From: Nik Clayton To: Matt Wilbur Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: diskless freebsd cluster Message-ID: <20020207183632.A15550@clan.nothing-going-on.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zhXaljGHf11kAtnf" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from matt@efs.org on Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:59:56AM -0800 Organization: FreeBSD Project Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 09:59:56AM -0800, Matt Wilbur wrote: > If anyone would find the setup/configuration of interest I can document > how I set it up and throw it up somewhere for your perusal.. Absolutely. N --=20 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://www.freebsd.org/ (__) FreeBSD Documentation Project http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/ \\\'',) \/ \= ^ --- 15B8 3FFC DDB4 34B0 AA5F 94B7 93A8 0764 2C37 E375 --- .\._/= _) --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxiyS8ACgkQk6gHZCw343UezQCfVfjYuXiKUc0yF/yAsTEOj0qA /a4AnikiCA1JrEnszIks8+Noi2/42zcI =hUtt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 11:11:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bilbo.in.mat.cc (bilbo.in.mat.cc [212.43.217.121]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4E237B420 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bilbo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.in.mat.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D4771055 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:11:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from club-internet.fr (sauron.in.mat.cc [212.43.217.122]) by bilbo.in.mat.cc (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071C571055 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:11:41 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3C62D16C.BCC58A1@club-internet.fr> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:11:40 +0100 From: Mathieu Arnold Organization: http://www.absolight.fr/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: diskless freebsd cluster References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Matt Wilbur wrote: > > If anyone would find the setup/configuration of interest I can document > how I set it up and throw it up somewhere for your perusal.. could be a freebsd article ? -- Mathieu Arnold To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 7 11:35:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail1.zer0.org (klapaucius.zer0.org [204.152.186.45]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2879937B41D for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail1.zer0.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 17137239A05; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:35:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:35:41 -0800 From: Gregory Sutter To: Matt Wilbur Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: diskless freebsd cluster Message-ID: <20020207193541.GC67207@klapaucius.zer0.org> References: <3C62C44A.D63FB405@optusnet.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Izn7cH1Com+I3R9J" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C62C44A.D63FB405@optusnet.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Organization: daemonnews X-Purpose: For great justice! Mail-Copies-To: poster Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org --Izn7cH1Com+I3R9J Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matt, On 2002-02-08 04:15 +1000, Ian Pulsford wrote: > Matt Wilbur wrote: > >=20 > > I just got a 16 node diskless cluster of 1.4GHz Athlons (dual 1GHz p3 > > server) up and running 4.5-RELEASE, and it was SO much easier than it u= sed >=20 > It would be neat if you could turn this into a Daemon news article.=20 > (BTW, I'm not the one to contact.) =2E..but I am. One of the ones to contact, anyway. :) I'm quite interested in reading about this myself, too. Would you like to write an article about your cluster? Let me know, or just send info/drafts/whatever to . Thanks! Greg --=20 Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org when God divided by zero. hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD --Izn7cH1Com+I3R9J Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: '' iD8DBQE8YtcMIBUx1YRd/t0RAo16AJ9WMfhYet17Ot6Tx78lZC1fwZn2wgCfdIp5 lNpeK683t/TkDhYV0+q/1vc= =Ahbc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Izn7cH1Com+I3R9J-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 8 9:57:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from donut.efs.org (donut.efs.org [216.141.160.147]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC0A37B41D for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sargon.photon.com (ritz.photon.com [216.141.160.144]) by donut.efs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9735BDC; Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:02:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:57:25 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Wilbur X-Sender: matt@sargon.photon.com To: Gregory Sutter Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, tlambert2@mindspring.com Subject: Re: diskless freebsd cluster In-Reply-To: <20020207193541.GC67207@klapaucius.zer0.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Sounds like I definitely need to document this, and I agree, an article would be a good idea (and fun)... I do have some kinks to work out (both political and technical), and a pretty busy schedule, but I'll start working on it. I should have something in a week or two.. (where's that digital camera, anyway..) -Matt On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Gregory Sutter wrote: > Matt, > > On 2002-02-08 04:15 +1000, Ian Pulsford wrote: > > Matt Wilbur wrote: > > > > > > I just got a 16 node diskless cluster of 1.4GHz Athlons (dual 1GHz p3 > > > server) up and running 4.5-RELEASE, and it was SO much easier than it used > > > > It would be neat if you could turn this into a Daemon news article. > > (BTW, I'm not the one to contact.) > > ...but I am. One of the ones to contact, anyway. :) I'm quite > interested in reading about this myself, too. Would you like to > write an article about your cluster? Let me know, or just send > info/drafts/whatever to . Thanks! > > Greg > -- > Gregory S. Sutter Black holes were created > mailto:gsutter@daemonnews.org when God divided by zero. > hkp://wwwkeys.pgp.net/0x845DFEDD > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message