From owner-freebsd-cluster Mon Jul 8 0:42:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4815E37B401 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from subterrain.net (subterrain.net [66.179.0.134]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAF243E58 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbl@subterrain.net) Received: from subterrain.net (metroplex@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by subterrain.net (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g687g0TT003231 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbl@subterrain.net) Received: (from jbl@localhost) by subterrain.net (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g687g0Nv003230 for freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jbl) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:42:00 -0700 From: Justin Lundy To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster project. Message-ID: <20020708074200.GA3152@subterrain.net> References: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Definately interested. In particular I'd like to benchmark the actual performance of distributed cryptanalysis and/or other CPU intensive operations in a FreeBSD cluster environment (prime factorization and password cracking). Up-to-date statistics like these would be valuable to the security industry because they would demonstrate that future- adaptable password schemes like that by Neils Provos are necessary since PC hardware and clustering technologies are so cheaply accessible. I would like to contribute to documentation and code testing. -- --jbl [ subterrain / tegatai ] --email : jbl@subterrain.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Mon Jul 8 0:45:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175C637B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA0143E3B for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 00:45:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g687jhA01881; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:45:43 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g687jgZ31025; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:45:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3D294325.1000803@nentec.de> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:45:41 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: estrabd@yahoo.com Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: new to list References: <20020705193309.17291.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Welcome! Testers are a good thing! (something I had very little time with). I would suggest to starting playing with it and share you problems and questions. From these we can develop better documentation and features. You can download the current code which is currently located at: http://www.aims.com/chris/cluster Soon it will be in CVS and accessable by others this way. Cheers! Andy Brett D. Estrade wrote: >Hello, all. > >My name is Brett, and I am interested in helping out with this project. > I've been interested in building a cluster of i386 machines using >FreeBSD of the past few months, and I just found this list. > >Anyway, I have 4-5 mobos ranging from 180mhz - 33mhz (+ all the >fixin's) to play around with. I am willing to help out with support >stuff like testing and documentation. I am not too wise on the >technical aspects, but I am interested in learning. > >In anycase, this is an offer to help out. > >Brett > >===== >public BrettDEstrade(){ > this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; > this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; > this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; > this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; > this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; >} > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Mon Jul 8 1: 1:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196C437B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB18443E09 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:01:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g6881hA06158; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:01:43 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g6881gZ31938; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:01:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3D2946E6.8070908@nentec.de> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:01:42 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Justin Lundy , freebsd-cluster Subject: Re: new to list References: <20020705193309.17291.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> <3D294325.1000803@nentec.de> <20020708074859.GB3152@subterrain.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin Lundy wrote: >Hi, the following URL generates a 404. > >http://www.aims.com/chris/cluster > >Oops. :) > Sorry about that. Been out with sinusitus the last days and my head is still not cleared out all the way ;-) this is the correct one: http://www.aims.com.au/chris/cluster To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Mon Jul 8 1:24:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D0937B400 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23B143E4A for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 01:24:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g688OYA07076; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:24:34 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g688OXZ00477; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:24:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3D294C41.6000708@nentec.de> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:24:33 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Justin Lundy Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster project. References: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> <20020708074200.GA3152@subterrain.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin Lundy wrote: >Definately interested. In particular I'd like to benchmark the actual >performance of distributed cryptanalysis and/or other CPU intensive >operations in a FreeBSD cluster environment (prime factorization and >password cracking). Up-to-date statistics like these would be valuable >to the security industry because they would demonstrate that future- >adaptable password schemes like that by Neils Provos are necessary since >PC hardware and clustering technologies are so cheaply accessible. > >I would like to contribute to documentation and code testing. > This is the *other* variety of clustering (BEOWULF). We are just doing application failover now and leaving the dispatching of requests to a scheduler of choice. However having hosts that recover from failure makes even the scheduler's work easier ;-) In Phase2 this will bring all of this together in cooperative process space. The ultimate goal is to be very VAX cluster like (it could do all these cool things!). If we can surpass this technology--great! (perhaps by having a nicer os! OOps this could be flame-bait!--please disregard). Andy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 1:38: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DED737B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ws2.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-84.outblaze.com [202.77.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2632143E3B for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:38:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: (qmail 11727 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Jul 2002 08:37:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20020709083759.11726.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws2.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:37:59 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 16:37:59 +0800 Subject: SPREAD clusters X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws2.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi everybody, I picked this up from another mailing list. There is a toolkit over at Johns Hopkins University called SPREAD, which has been implemented to clustered applications such as Apache-SSL and Postgres-R. "Spread is designed to encapsulate the challenging aspects of asynchronous networks and enable the construction of scalable distributed applications, allowing application builders to focus on the differentiating components of their application. " Maybe this code would work in conjunction with Andy's code, as part of the "Phase 2" project. Derek -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 2: 8:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F9537B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yello.shallow.net (yello.shallow.net [203.18.243.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1911843E3B for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 02:08:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@shallow.net) Received: by yello.shallow.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CE3412A6B; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:08:42 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:08:42 +1000 From: Joshua Goodall To: Derek Barrett Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters Message-ID: <20020709090842.GB34919@roughtrade.net> References: <20020709083759.11726.qmail@graffiti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020709083759.11726.qmail@graffiti.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I already maintain a FreeBSD Spread port plus associated libraries: ports/net/spread (including perl & java lib) ports/net/py-spreadmodule (python lib) ports/net/p5-Spread-Session (OO perl lib) There's also a protocol decode and Spread-daemon-hacking on my personal site for it at http://www.roughtrade.net/spread/ You can use this stuff now to build Spread-based application clusters now, if you like. Spread gives you reliable, ordered messaging and process-group membership information, from which can be derived lock management, shared-state, flailover etc. It is, however, totally incompatible with Andy Sporner's existing work. It suffers from a basic problem; if you want to cluster at kernel level, doing it with a userland communications daemon is going to fail (because having the kernel block on userland is Bad :)) I have an architectural direction that will result in a FreeBSD clustering technique rather different from Andy's, based on the technologies that Spread also uses, but no interest in collaborating on it yet. Joshua On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 04:37:59PM +0800, Derek Barrett wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I picked this up from another mailing list. > > There is a toolkit over at Johns Hopkins University called > SPREAD, which has been implemented to clustered applications such as > Apache-SSL and Postgres-R. > > "Spread is designed to encapsulate the challenging aspects of asynchronous networks and enable the construction of scalable distributed applications, allowing application builders to focus on the differentiating components of their application. " > > Maybe this code would work in conjunction with Andy's code, as > part of the "Phase 2" project. > > Derek > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net > > Powered by Outblaze > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message -- "Running makeworld fast is important to me. Anything longer than 5-10 minutes is too long, since it is not reasonable to check every commit using makeworld if it takes longer." - Bruce Evans, ultimate guardian of build stability. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 3:33:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5711937B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C924143E3B for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 03:33:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g69AXRA25629; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:33:27 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g69AXPZ31561; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:33:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3D2ABBF4.5010807@nentec.de> Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 12:33:24 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Derek Barrett Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters References: <20020709083759.11726.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Derek Barrett wrote: >Hi everybody, > >I picked this up from another mailing list. > >There is a toolkit over at Johns Hopkins University called >SPREAD, which has been implemented to clustered applications such as >Apache-SSL and Postgres-R. > >"Spread is designed to encapsulate the challenging aspects of asynchronous networks and enable the construction of scalable distributed applications, allowing application builders to focus on the differentiating components of their application. " > >Maybe this code would work in conjunction with Andy's code, as >part of the "Phase 2" project. > >Derek > Hi, Nice idea, but the idea I had was more lower level. In that it was a modification on the VM system. The basic premise is that a process does not need to be "cluster-aware" to operate. But this is not to discourage their usage--it's just not in focus for Phase-2. Thanks Andy > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 12:51:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C806137B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3F143E64 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:51:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliftonr@lava.net) Received: from localhost (3748 bytes) by malasada.lava.net; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:51:32 -1000 (HST) via sendmail [stdio] id for Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:51:32 -1000 From: Clifton Royston To: Andy Sporner Cc: Derek Barrett , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters Message-ID: <20020709095132.D12519@lava.net> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Sporner , Derek Barrett , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020709083759.11726.qmail@graffiti.net> <3D2ABBF4.5010807@nentec.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3D2ABBF4.5010807@nentec.de>; from sporner@nentec.de on Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 12:33:24PM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 12:33:24PM +0200, Andy Sporner wrote: > Derek Barrett wrote: > > >Hi everybody, > > > >I picked this up from another mailing list. > > > >There is a toolkit over at Johns Hopkins University called > >SPREAD, which has been implemented to clustered applications such as > >Apache-SSL and Postgres-R. > > > >"Spread is designed to encapsulate the challenging aspects of asynchronous networks and enable the construction of scalable distributed applications, allowing application builders to focus on the differentiating components of their application. " > > > >Maybe this code would work in conjunction with Andy's code, as > >part of the "Phase 2" project. > > > >Derek > > > > Hi, > > Nice idea, but the idea I had was more lower level. In that it was a > modification on the VM system. The basic premise is that a process > does not need to be "cluster-aware" to operate. But this is not to > discourage their usage--it's just not in focus for Phase-2. Is there a document explaining the scope of the project, what kinds of problems it's intended to address, and the overall outline or roadmap? I'm having a hard time getting that from the URL you posted. (I'm also new to this list, obviously.) Is the current project aimed at application failover and load-balancing for specific applications, i.e. providing the software equivalent of a "layer 4" or load balancing Ethernet switch? Or does it generically instantiate all network applications into the same failover and load-balancing environment? Or is it more like Mosix, in which servers join a kind of "hive mind" where any processor can vfork() a process onto a different server with more RAM/CPU available, but processes have to remain on the original machine to do device I/O? Or is it like Digital (R.I.P.s) Vax VMS or "TrueUNIX" clustering, where for most purposes the clustered servers behaved like a single machine, with shared storage, unified access to file systems and devices, etc.? My main practical interest is in the nitty-gritty of building practical highly reliable and highly scalable mail server clusters, both for mail delivery (SMTP,LMTP) and mail retrieval (POP, IMAP.) The main challenge in doing this right now is dealing with the need for all servers to have a coherent common view of the file systems where mail is stored. This means the cluster solution needs to include shared storage, either via NFS or via some better mechanism which provides reliable sharing of file systems between multiple servers and allows for server failure without interruption of data access. Is this kind of question outside the scope of the current project? -- Clifton -- Clifton Royston -- LavaNet Systems Architect -- cliftonr@lava.net "What do we need to make our world come alive? What does it take to make us sing? While we're waiting for the next one to arrive..." - Sisters of Mercy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 12:54:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA07537B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web20709.mail.yahoo.com (web20709.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A22643E31 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from estrabd@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020709195436.95062.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.160.2.173] by web20709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Jul 2002 12:54:36 PDT Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 12:54:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brett D. Estrade" Reply-To: estrabd@yahoo.com Subject: project hosting To: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Has there been any consideration for using http://www.sourceforge.org to host the project? It has everything a project could need/want from what I am familiar with. If this was considered before but discounted, what were the issues? Thanks, Brett ===== public BrettDEstrade(){ this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; } __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Tue Jul 9 14:24: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8339837B400 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ws5-2.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-132.outblaze.com [205.158.62.132]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 371FB43E09 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from click46@operamail.com) Received: (qmail 16404 invoked by uid 1001); 9 Jul 2002 21:24:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20020709212404.16403.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [207.105.193.195] by ws5-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for click46@operamail.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:24:04 +0800 From: "aaron g" To: Cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:24:04 +0800 Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters X-Originating-Ip: 207.105.193.195 X-Originating-Server: ws5-2.us4.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG From my limited knowledge of the project I beleive this is not out of the question. Infact it may have been Andy himself who made reference to the VMS like clustering technology. I'm not really in a place to give a definitive answer but I too am interested in a solution for the situation you describe. - aarong ----- Original Message ----- From: Clifton Royston Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:51:32 -1000 To: Andy Sporner Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters > > Is there a document explaining the scope of the project, what kinds > of problems it's intended to address, and the overall outline or > roadmap? I'm having a hard time getting that from the URL you posted. > (I'm also new to this list, obviously.) > > Is the current project aimed at application failover and load-balancing > for specific applications, i.e. providing the software equivalent of a > "layer 4" or load balancing Ethernet switch? > > Or does it generically instantiate all network applications into the > same failover and load-balancing environment? > > Or is it more like Mosix, in which servers join a kind of "hive mind" > where any processor can vfork() a process onto a different server with > more RAM/CPU available, but processes have to remain on the original > machine to do device I/O? > > Or is it like Digital (R.I.P.s) Vax VMS or "TrueUNIX" clustering, > where for most purposes the clustered servers behaved like a single > machine, with shared storage, unified access to file systems and > devices, etc.? > > My main practical interest is in the nitty-gritty of building > practical highly reliable and highly scalable mail server clusters, > both for mail delivery (SMTP,LMTP) and mail retrieval (POP, IMAP.) The > main challenge in doing this right now is dealing with the need for all > servers to have a coherent common view of the file systems where mail > is stored. This means the cluster solution needs to include shared > storage, either via NFS or via some better mechanism which provides > reliable sharing of file systems between multiple servers and allows > for server failure without interruption of data access. > > Is this kind of question outside the scope of the current project? > > -- Clifton > > -- > Clifton Royston -- LavaNet Systems Architect -- cliftonr@lava.net > "What do we need to make our world come alive? > What does it take to make us sing? > While we're waiting for the next one to arrive..." - Sisters of Mercy > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > -- _______________________________________________ Download the free Opera browser at http://www.opera.com/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 10 0:31:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF62737B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beau.nrez.net (beau.nrez.net [165.64.255.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB61F43E3B for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:31:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmger@beau.nrez.net) Received: (from rmger@localhost) by beau.nrez.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6A7aCi56616; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:36:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmger) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:36:12 -0700 From: Ryan Mansager To: docs@freebsdcluster.stanford.edu Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: nice work Message-ID: <20020710073612.GA56489@beau.nrez.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: Nrez.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Way to get a project rolling guys. Nice work. I have two 4-STABLE and one 5-CURRENT box available for testing. I hope I'll be able to be of some assistance. I have a crude sgml conversion of the existing doc and it's html output avail at: http://nrez.net/~rmger/fbsdcluster/cluster-doc.sgml http://nrez.net/~rmger/fbsdcluster/cluster-doc.html I can either continue to comb through this or wait until there is more talk on how the project will go about working on documentation. I don't want to jump the gun. Cheers, -- Ryan Mansager To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 10 1: 4:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DF437B401 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beau.nrez.net (beau.nrez.net [165.64.255.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DA143E64 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:04:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmger@beau.nrez.net) Received: (from rmger@localhost) by beau.nrez.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6A88uH57021; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:08:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmger) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:08:56 -0700 From: Ryan Mansager To: Andy Sporner Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster project. Message-ID: <20020710080856.GA56793@beau.nrez.net> References: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> <20020708074200.GA3152@subterrain.net> <3D294C41.6000708@nentec.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D294C41.6000708@nentec.de> Organization: Nrez.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG ::hugs vms:: ehem...-r On Mon, 08 Jul 2002, Andy Sporner wrote: > Justin Lundy wrote: > > >Definately interested. In particular I'd like to benchmark the actual > >performance of distributed cryptanalysis and/or other CPU intensive > >operations in a FreeBSD cluster environment (prime factorization and > >password cracking). Up-to-date statistics like these would be valuable > >to the security industry because they would demonstrate that future- > >adaptable password schemes like that by Neils Provos are necessary since > >PC hardware and clustering technologies are so cheaply accessible. > > > >I would like to contribute to documentation and code testing. > > > This is the *other* variety of clustering (BEOWULF). We are just doing > application failover now and leaving the dispatching of requests to a > scheduler > of choice. However having hosts that recover from failure makes even the > scheduler's work easier ;-) > > In Phase2 this will bring all of this together in cooperative process space. > > The ultimate goal is to be very VAX cluster like (it could do all these > cool things!). If we can surpass this technology--great! (perhaps by > having a nicer os! OOps this could be flame-bait!--please disregard). > > > > Andy > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Wed Jul 10 6:23:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C5337B400 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ws2.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-84.outblaze.com [202.77.181.84]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 21A4D43E42 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:23:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: (qmail 2180 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Jul 2002 13:23:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20020710132318.2179.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.117) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws2.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:23:17 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: , docs@freebsdcluster.stanford.edu Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:23:17 +0800 Subject: Re: nice work X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws2.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Ryan, Nice work on that documentation format, it looks great. I'd say, go ahead and install the cluster software, and comb through that documentation. If you find something in the install process, or while running the tools, that you think you could add or modify, go for it. When you make a change, let me know and I'll add the change to the master document currently at home on Chris Knight's server. Amar is ultimately working on getting Doc Books version of the docs setup at his site at Stanford, so eventually that will be our final home for the documents. Thanks, Derek ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mansager Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:36:12 -0700 To: docs@freebsdcluster.stanford.edu Subject: nice work > Way to get a project rolling guys. Nice work. > > I have two 4-STABLE and one 5-CURRENT box available for testing. > I hope I'll be able to be of some assistance. > > I have a crude sgml conversion of the existing doc and it's html > output avail at: > > http://nrez.net/~rmger/fbsdcluster/cluster-doc.sgml > http://nrez.net/~rmger/fbsdcluster/cluster-doc.html > > I can either continue to comb through this or wait until > there is more talk on how the project will go about working > on documentation. I don't want to jump the gun. > > Cheers, > -- > Ryan Mansager > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 1:56:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB2C37B405 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A398943E42 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 01:56:36 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g6B8uXA23013; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:56:33 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g6B8uVZ06860; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:56:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3D2D483E.4040100@nentec.de> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:56:30 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: aaron g Cc: cliftonr@lava.net, freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters References: <20020709212404.16403.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I will try to answer both emails at once ;-) (wow! multitasking batch mode!) I think a good clarification is in order. ;-) My idea of a "perfect cluster" is one that applications don't realize that they are on one. That in addition to achieving the five 9's of reliablity (99.999% uptime). In my working experience I have seen the clustering system at Fermi-Lab in the early 90's and had my opinions about it. I worked with clusters on Dynix/PTX (Sequent) and even gave back some enhancements since 1995, I formed a company to make load balancing applications in the mid '90's and the rights got sold to a company in Boston that makes 1U servers. Now I am working for German company making a very high speed network control switch (that can make complex routing decisions of network traffic) that can be used to front-end such a cluster as I am proposing--though a software solution will work equally well ;-) While working on Sequent clusters, I got familiar with the Numa-Q product and about it's workings. I came to the conclusion that it only addressed the SMP bottleneck (Amdahl's law) but really didn't add that much more of reliablity. So the idea for Phase 2 was to make a 'Numa' like system--which in effect it is, that removes the OS on the node as a single point of failure. In their Numa architecture it was one instance of the OS across many physical nodes using special hardware to be able to address any page of memory across the complex making up a node. The problem is that one member of the complex could bring down the entire system. What I wanted to do was to start where they were, but have a separate O/S image on each node with a cooperative process space--yes like Mosix, but totally transparently. When a system becomes too busy, rather than swapping a process out to disk, it can be swapped to another node. Sort of like SMP (Symmetrical Multi-Processing) in a network. If a node dies, just those processes that had memory there die, but the OS (cooperatively speaking) just goes on running--and rather than waiting for a reboot, the dead processes just get restarted again. With such a system, the five 9's should be very easy to reach. That being said, there are a lot of challenges--especially with respect to the system scheduler and the VM system that have to be addressed. I have a rough concept that I have been going over though the last 4 years and have never had a chance to commit it to a document. I suppose it is probably about time to do so. I even came up with a way that network applications can survive a node move as well, though it requires a special protocol and a front-end device to achieve this. For the sake of the front-end device and potential single points of failures, we have phase-1 of the clustering software, but ultimately, phase-2 should completely replace phase-1 for everything else. While speaking about phase-1, the goal is simple generic failover of applications. There is a small feature that didn't cost much in the implementation to add a weight to the applications so that they could be started on nodes in a more intelligent manner, with respect to the resources on the machine. For the moment they are static (IE: the summation of the weights of already running applications are done to find out if enough resources are present to start a new one. Instead of looking at the configured Maximum weight, the actual application usage (by merit of the CSE patch) can be collected instead. From this jobs can be shut-down and restart on other nodes when the statistics on a node changed. Bye! Andy These things have been aaron g wrote: >>From my limited knowledge of the project I beleive this is >not out of the question. Infact it may have been Andy >himself who made reference to the VMS like clustering >technology. I'm not really in a place to give a definitive >answer but I too am interested in a solution for the >situation you describe. > >- aarong > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Clifton Royston >Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:51:32 -1000 >To: Andy Sporner >Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters > >> Is there a document explaining the scope of the project, what kinds >>of problems it's intended to address, and the overall outline or >>roadmap? I'm having a hard time getting that from the URL you posted. >>(I'm also new to this list, obviously.) >> >> Is the current project aimed at application failover and load-balancing >>for specific applications, i.e. providing the software equivalent of a >>"layer 4" or load balancing Ethernet switch? >> >> Or does it generically instantiate all network applications into the >>same failover and load-balancing environment? >> >> Or is it more like Mosix, in which servers join a kind of "hive mind" >>where any processor can vfork() a process onto a different server with >>more RAM/CPU available, but processes have to remain on the original >>machine to do device I/O? >> >> Or is it like Digital (R.I.P.s) Vax VMS or "TrueUNIX" clustering, >>where for most purposes the clustered servers behaved like a single >>machine, with shared storage, unified access to file systems and >>devices, etc.? >> >> My main practical interest is in the nitty-gritty of building >>practical highly reliable and highly scalable mail server clusters, >>both for mail delivery (SMTP,LMTP) and mail retrieval (POP, IMAP.) The >>main challenge in doing this right now is dealing with the need for all >>servers to have a coherent common view of the file systems where mail >>is stored. This means the cluster solution needs to include shared >>storage, either via NFS or via some better mechanism which provides >>reliable sharing of file systems between multiple servers and allows >>for server failure without interruption of data access. >> >> Is this kind of question outside the scope of the current project? >> >> -- Clifton >> >>-- >> Clifton Royston -- LavaNet Systems Architect -- cliftonr@lava.net >>"What do we need to make our world come alive? >> What does it take to make us sing? >> While we're waiting for the next one to arrive..." - Sisters of Mercy >> >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message >> > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 2: 5:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACACE37B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gate.nentec.de (gate2.nentec.de [194.25.215.66]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8102B43E4A for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:05:21 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sporner@nentec.de) Received: from nenny.nentec.de (root@nenny.nentec.de [153.92.64.1]) by gate.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g6B95JA28015; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:05:19 +0200 Received: from nentec.de (andromeda.nentec.de [153.92.64.34]) by nenny.nentec.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with ESMTP id g6B95HZ07329; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:05:18 +0200 Message-ID: <3D2D4A4D.80205@nentec.de> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:05:17 +0200 From: Andy Sporner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; de-AT; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: de-at, de, en, en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: estrabd@yahoo.com Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: project hosting References: <20020709195436.95062.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG We should discuss this. I see no basic problem and it might give us better exposure to the outside. The only problem I see with it is that I can see a lot of Linux people trying to use it and find out that it won't work and we get peppered with questions as to why it doesn't work for them (It seems like the microsoft problem of them thinking they are the only OS in town has a new home! ;-)) What do we all think here? My only basic requirement is control of who gets commit access and whatever. If we can have the same level of granularity then it might make sense... Andy Brett D. Estrade wrote: >Has there been any consideration for using http://www.sourceforge.org >to host the project? It has everything a project could need/want from >what I am familiar with. If this was considered before but >discounted, what were the issues? > >Thanks, >Brett > >===== >public BrettDEstrade(){ > this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; > this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; > this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; > this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; > this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; >} > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free >http://sbc.yahoo.com > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 11:43:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAD437B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from malasada.lava.net (malasada.lava.net [64.65.64.17]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667C943E54 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:43:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from cliftonr@lava.net) Received: from localhost (6090 bytes) by malasada.lava.net; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:43:38 -1000 (HST) via sendmail [stdio] id for Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:43:38 -1000 From: Clifton Royston To: Andy Sporner Cc: aaron g , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: SPREAD clusters Message-ID: <20020711084338.B18402@lava.net> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Sporner , aaron g , freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020709212404.16403.qmail@operamail.com> <3D2D483E.4040100@nentec.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3D2D483E.4040100@nentec.de>; from sporner@nentec.de on Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 10:56:30AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jul 11, 2002 at 10:56:30AM +0200, Andy Sporner wrote: > Hi, > > I will try to answer both emails at once ;-) (wow! multitasking batch mode!) > > I think a good clarification is in order. ;-) > > My idea of a "perfect cluster" is one that applications don't realize > that they are on one. That in addition to achieving the five 9's of > reliablity (99.999% uptime). > > In my working experience I have seen the clustering system at Fermi-Lab > in the early 90's and had my opinions about it. I worked with clusters > on Dynix/PTX (Sequent) and even gave back some enhancements since > 1995, I formed a company to make load balancing applications in the mid > '90's and the rights got sold to a company in Boston that makes 1U servers. > Now I am working for German company making a very high speed network > control switch (that can make complex routing decisions of network traffic) > that can be used to front-end such a cluster as I am proposing--though a > software solution will work equally well ;-) > > While working on Sequent clusters, I got familiar with the Numa-Q product > and about it's workings. I came to the conclusion that it only addressed > the SMP bottleneck (Amdahl's law) but really didn't add that much more of > reliablity. > > So the idea for Phase 2 was to make a 'Numa' like system--which in > effect it is, that removes the OS on the node as a single point of > failure. In their Numa architecture it was one instance of the OS > across many physical nodes using special hardware to be able to > address any page of memory across the complex making up a node. The > problem is that one member of the complex could bring down the entire > system. > > What I wanted to do was to start where they were, but have a separate > O/S image on each node with a cooperative process space--yes like > Mosix, but totally transparently. When a system becomes too busy, > rather than swapping a process out to disk, it can be swapped to > another node. Sort of like SMP (Symmetrical Multi-Processing) in a > network. If a node dies, just those processes that had memory there > die, but the OS (cooperatively speaking) just goes on running--and > rather than waiting for a reboot, the dead processes just get > restarted again. With such a system, the five 9's should be very > easy to reach. Very nice. > That being said, there are a lot of challenges--especially with > respect to the system scheduler and the VM system that have to be > addressed. I have a rough concept that I have been going over though > the last 4 years and have never had a chance to commit it to a > document. I suppose it is probably about time to do so. I even came > up with a way that network applications can survive a node move as > well, though it requires a special protocol and a front-end device to > achieve this. For the sake of the front-end device and potential > single points of failures, we have phase-1 of the clustering > software, but ultimately, phase-2 should completely replace phase-1 > for everything else. I assume this will be targeted at the current -current track (5.x release) to take advantage of the major rewrite of kernel scheduling there? > While speaking about phase-1, the goal is simple generic failover of > applications. There is a small feature that didn't cost much in the > implementation to add a weight to the applications so that they could > be started on nodes in a more intelligent manner, with respect to the > resources on the machine. For the moment they are static (IE: the > summation of the weights of already running applications are done to > find out if enough resources are present to start a new one. Instead > of looking at the configured Maximum weight, the actual application > usage (by merit of the CSE patch) can be collected instead. > From this jobs can be shut-down and restart on other nodes when the > statistics on a node changed. Great explanation! This sounds like a great project. I'm in agreement with both your goals and the stages you're talking about to reach it. I've had daydreams of trying to hammer together something similar, but don't have the experience with clustering that you've brought to the project. Addressing basic application failover in a structured way as you've done does seem like the best place to start, and then go for the big issues of moving processes, interacting with other kernels, etc. I agree that it wouldn't make much sense sinking too much effort into load-balancing the *front* end (network connections) in software at this stage, when there are hardware products out there that will do it at a reasonable price. If you don't mind, maybe this sketch of the project you just gave could be committed to the documentation as a starting point. On the storage front, do you think it would be worthwhile to also address in an upcoming phase the failover of shared storage access, using something like the "Tertiary Disk project" node design at: -- Clifton -- Clifton Royston -- LavaNet Systems Architect -- cliftonr@lava.net "What do we need to make our world come alive? What does it take to make us sing? While we're waiting for the next one to arrive..." - Sisters of Mercy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 16:50: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4423337B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes.cicese.mx (hermes.cicese.mx [158.97.1.34]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C9243E5E for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:49:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from valencia@cicese.mx) Received: from matrix.cicese.mx (matrix.cicese.mx [158.97.23.247]) by hermes.cicese.mx (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id g6BNmf307282 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cicese.mx (pc-erodrig.cicese.mx [158.97.22.220]) by matrix.cicese.mx (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19592 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D2E18FB.4060300@cicese.mx> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:47:07 -0700 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Daniel_Jes=FAs_Valencia_S=E1nchez?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020618 Netscape/7.0b1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster project. References: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> <3D1E3EA1.4000800@cicese.mx> <20020629231914.GA8396@drunkmonk.net> <3D1F5F90.3030807@cicese.mx> <20020630221005.GA25745@drunkmonk.net> <3D2DD976.3090106@cicese.mx> <20020711192332.GA64472@drunkmonk.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030906050204080904020408" Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --------------030906050204080904020408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Amar Takhar wrote: >On 2002-07-11 12:16 -0700, Daniel Jesús Valencia Sánchez wrote: > > > >>>ftp://freebsdcluster.stanford.edu >>> >>> >>> >>hi there... this addy is for the patch... >> >>where can i get the package? >> >> > >Both the source + patch is on the site, there is no binary package. > >Amar. > ok... I read the "docs" and they say I have to download the cluster package src... so, where do I get it? in the site I only see "phase1" files - have fun Daniel Valencia > > --------------030906050204080904020408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Amar Takhar wrote:
On 2002-07-11 12:16 -0700, Daniel Jesús Valencia Sánchez wrote:

  
ftp://freebsdcluster.stanford.edu

      
hi there... this addy is for the patch...

where can i get the package?
    

Both the source + patch is on the site, there is no binary package.

Amar.
ok... I read the "docs" and they say I have to download the cluster package src... so, where do I get it?  in the site I only see "phase1" files

-  have fun

Daniel Valencia
--------------030906050204080904020408-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 18:42: 4 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53CA337B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:42:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beau.nrez.net (beau.nrez.net [165.64.255.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C961543E67 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:42:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmger@beau.nrez.net) Received: (from rmger@localhost) by beau.nrez.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6C1l8K07896; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:47:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmger) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:47:08 -0700 From: Ryan Mansager To: Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Valencia_S=E1nchez?= Cc: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cluster project. Message-ID: <20020712014708.GA7580@beau.nrez.net> References: <20020629230502.GA8106@drunkmonk.net> <3D1E3EA1.4000800@cicese.mx> <20020629231914.GA8396@drunkmonk.net> <3D1F5F90.3030807@cicese.mx> <20020630221005.GA25745@drunkmonk.net> <3D2DD976.3090106@cicese.mx> <20020711192332.GA64472@drunkmonk.net> <3D2E18FB.4060300@cicese.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3D2E18FB.4060300@cicese.mx> Organization: Nrez.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > ok... I read the "docs" and they say I have to download the cluster > package src... so, where do I get it? in the site I only see "phase1" files The source is availabe at: http://www.aims.com.au/chris/cluster/ Are you expecting something other than phase1 files? -- Ryan Mansager To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 19:30:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D763037B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ws3.hk5.outblaze.com (202-77-181-90.outblaze.com [202.77.181.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D0BA543E64 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:30:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from derekbarrett@graffiti.net) Received: (qmail 23039 invoked by uid 1001); 12 Jul 2002 02:30:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20020712023017.23038.qmail@graffiti.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [66.51.217.108] by ws3.hk5.outblaze.com with http for derekbarrett@graffiti.net; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:30:17 +0800 From: "Derek Barrett" To: , estrabd@yahoo.com Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:30:17 +0800 Subject: Re: project hosting X-Originating-Ip: 66.51.217.108 X-Originating-Server: ws3.hk5.outblaze.com Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Let's take a review of what we have in place, and what's needed, as it relates to Sourceforge. What we have in place that Sourceforge also has: ----------------------------------------------- 1. CVS Repository (being implemented by Amar at Stanford) 2. Documentation home (several parties already have this in place) 3. Project-specific email lists (finished by Amar) What Sourceforge has that we don't: ---------------------------------- 1. Public registry of developers, helpers, administrators (Amar and I are keeping an informal running list of interested parties). 2. Forums (though I never see these widely utilized, and maybe something like UBB or PHPBB would be better solutions, though these require more administrative overhead) 3. Bug tracking/feature request and response system 4. The outside exposure Andy was talking about We could compromise, by opening a home on Sourceforge, but having our home there link to our own outside tools. Derek ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Sporner Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:05:17 +0200 To: estrabd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: project hosting > We should discuss this. I see no basic problem and it might > give us better exposure to the outside. > > The only problem I see with it is that I can see a lot of Linux > people trying to use it and find out that it won't work and we > get peppered with questions as to why it doesn't work for them > (It seems like the microsoft problem of them thinking they are > the only OS in town has a new home! ;-)) > > What do we all think here? My only basic requirement is control > of who gets commit access and whatever. If we can have the same > level of granularity then it might make sense... > > > Andy > > > > > Brett D. Estrade wrote: > > >Has there been any consideration for using http://www.sourceforge.org > >to host the project? It has everything a project could need/want from > >what I am familiar with. If this was considered before but > >discounted, what were the issues? > > > >Thanks, > >Brett > > > >===== > >public BrettDEstrade(){ > > this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; > > this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; > > this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; > > this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; > > this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; > >} > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Thu Jul 11 23:59:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692CB37B400 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beau.nrez.net (beau.nrez.net [165.64.255.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D06243E31 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:59:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmger@beau.nrez.net) Received: (from rmger@localhost) by beau.nrez.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6C74Kg12559; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:04:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmger) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 00:04:20 -0700 From: Ryan Mansager To: Derek Barrett Cc: sporner@nentec.de, estrabd@yahoo.com, freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: project hosting Message-ID: <20020712070420.GA12021@beau.nrez.net> References: <20020712023017.23038.qmail@graffiti.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020712023017.23038.qmail@graffiti.net> Organization: Nrez.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'll be in a position to offer a jailed development environment within a month. Sourceforge definitely has it's advantages of many minds on the same track (clustering.foundries.sourceforge.net), with tons of poop and fluff and hip linux talk being it's downside. If the idea of starting small and growing appeals to the team (to Andy), I suggest perhaps no sourceforge for now. If the idea of popularity, gossip, and a million people'ss opinions seem beneficial and appeals to the team (to Andy), sourceforge seems key. We can always start on SF and move off, or move TO it down the road. My $0.02, -- Ryan Mansager On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Derek Barrett wrote: > Let's take a review of what we have in place, and what's needed, as it > relates to Sourceforge. > > What we have in place that Sourceforge also has: > ----------------------------------------------- > > 1. CVS Repository (being implemented by Amar at Stanford) > 2. Documentation home (several parties already have this in place) > 3. Project-specific email lists (finished by Amar) > > What Sourceforge has that we don't: > ---------------------------------- > > 1. Public registry of developers, helpers, administrators (Amar > and I are keeping an informal running list of interested parties). > 2. Forums (though I never see these widely utilized, and maybe > something like UBB or PHPBB would be better solutions, though these > require more administrative overhead) > 3. Bug tracking/feature request and response system > 4. The outside exposure Andy was talking about > > We could compromise, by opening a home on Sourceforge, but having our > home there link to our own outside tools. > > Derek > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andy Sporner > Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:05:17 +0200 > To: estrabd@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: project hosting > > > > We should discuss this. I see no basic problem and it might > > give us better exposure to the outside. > > > > The only problem I see with it is that I can see a lot of Linux > > people trying to use it and find out that it won't work and we > > get peppered with questions as to why it doesn't work for them > > (It seems like the microsoft problem of them thinking they are > > the only OS in town has a new home! ;-)) > > > > What do we all think here? My only basic requirement is control > > of who gets commit access and whatever. If we can have the same > > level of granularity then it might make sense... > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > Brett D. Estrade wrote: > > > > >Has there been any consideration for using http://www.sourceforge.org > > >to host the project? It has everything a project could need/want from > > >what I am familiar with. If this was considered before but > > >discounted, what were the issues? > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Brett > > > > > >===== > > >public BrettDEstrade(){ > > > this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; > > > this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; > > > this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; > > > this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; > > > this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; > > >} > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net > > Powered by Outblaze > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message -- Ryan Mansager To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Fri Jul 12 7:15:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89A337B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web20704.mail.yahoo.com (web20704.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.177]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B707343E58 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:15:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from estrabd@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020712141523.92011.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.160.2.173] by web20704.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:15:23 PDT Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brett D. Estrade" Reply-To: estrabd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: project hosting To: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Obviously, I'll go along with what ever the powers that be decide,and I am no SF evangelist by any stretch, but I think you are falling into the same elitist-type attitude towards your (and my) OS of choice and any projects having to do with it. Yes, SF has a lot of linux-heads since that is who it is directed towards, but with 10's of 1000's of project currently list, many of which are not even actively worked upon, I doubt our project will attract the attention of those not interested in clustering FreeBSD machines (overwhelming majority, I would say) until a superior and legendary clustering technology emerges from the project. On the otherhand, a negative I see towards SF is that the project leaders, although having a good amount of control, do not have ultimate control of the servers themselves. In my eyes, this would be a reason not to use SF. The benefit, though, is that its got most things you would need (and yes, fluff you don't). Whatever is decided, I think all would agree that effort and focus should be placed on the project's goals and objectives, not the headaches associated with setting up your own cvs, lists, etc. If need be though, I can provide a mirror site or cvs, too. BTW, what is the time line as far as setting atleast something up? Just my $0.02 Brett > Sourceforge definitely has it's advantages of many minds on the same > track (clustering.foundries.sourceforge.net), with tons of poop and > fluff and hip linux talk being it's downside. > > If the idea of starting small and growing appeals to the team (to > Andy), I suggest perhaps no sourceforge for now. > > If the idea of popularity, gossip, and a million people'ss opinions > seem beneficial and appeals to the team (to Andy), sourceforge seems > key. > > We can always start on SF and move off, or move TO it down the road ===== public BrettDEstrade(){ this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; } __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Fri Jul 12 7:28: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AA737B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from yello.shallow.net (yello.shallow.net [203.18.243.120]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C033343E5E for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from joshua@shallow.net) Received: by yello.shallow.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 194772A6B; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:27:52 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:27:51 +1000 From: Joshua Goodall To: "Brett D. Estrade" Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: project hosting Message-ID: <20020712142751.GG34919@roughtrade.net> References: <20020712141523.92011.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020712141523.92011.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 07:15:23AM -0700, Brett D. Estrade wrote: > Obviously, I'll go along with what ever the powers that be decide,and > I am no SF evangelist by any stretch, but I think you are falling into > the same elitist-type attitude towards your (and my) OS of choice and > any projects having to do with it. If you ignore SourceForge as a community vehicle and use it as a convenient CVS repository with value-add, you'll be with the majority. Backup the repository periodically and you can't lose. Other major FreeBSD-based projects live on SF, e.g. OpenPAM (run by des). J To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Fri Jul 12 7:34:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47B137B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web20709.mail.yahoo.com (web20709.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.226.182]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 99C7343E42 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from estrabd@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20020712143429.21136.qmail@web20709.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.160.2.173] by web20709.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:34:29 PDT Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Brett D. Estrade" Reply-To: estrabd@yahoo.com Subject: Re: project hosting To: Joshua Goodall Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020712142751.GG34919@roughtrade.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Agree 100%; convenience and usablilty are key in any project. Brett --- Joshua Goodall wrote: > On Fri, Jul 12, 2002 at 07:15:23AM -0700, Brett D. Estrade wrote: > > Obviously, I'll go along with what ever the powers that be > decide,and > > I am no SF evangelist by any stretch, but I think you are falling > into > > the same elitist-type attitude towards your (and my) OS of choice > and > > any projects having to do with it. > > If you ignore SourceForge as a community vehicle and use it as a > convenient CVS repository with value-add, you'll be with the > majority. > Backup the repository periodically and you can't lose. > > Other major FreeBSD-based projects live on SF, e.g. OpenPAM (run > by des). > > J ===== public BrettDEstrade(){ this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; } __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-cluster Fri Jul 12 12:53:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-cluster@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86CC37B400 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from beau.nrez.net (beau.nrez.net [165.64.255.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5297743E65 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:53:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rmger@beau.nrez.net) Received: (from rmger@localhost) by beau.nrez.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g6CJxDd25853; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:59:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from rmger) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:59:13 -0700 From: Ryan Mansager To: "Brett D. Estrade" Cc: freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: project hosting Message-ID: <20020712195913.GA25370@beau.nrez.net> References: <20020712141523.92011.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020712141523.92011.qmail@web20704.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Nrez.net User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-cluster@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG My only mention of an OS was inferred through reference of hip linux talk. My letter was about project size, not OS preference. Pre-setup tools and community could be beneficial to us. Or they could not be. Moving to SF would be a nice step from where the project is at now, and/or will be a community it may be beneficial to be a part of later. Sorry if my previous post seemed tainted. -ryan On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, Brett D. Estrade wrote: > Obviously, I'll go along with what ever the powers that be decide,and > I am no SF evangelist by any stretch, but I think you are falling into > the same elitist-type attitude towards your (and my) OS of choice and > any projects having to do with it. Yes, SF has a lot of linux-heads > since that is who it is directed towards, but with 10's of 1000's of > project currently list, many of which are not even actively worked > upon, I doubt our project will attract the attention of those not > interested in clustering FreeBSD machines (overwhelming majority, I > would say) until a superior and legendary clustering technology > emerges from the project. > > On the otherhand, a negative I see towards SF is that the project > leaders, although having a good amount of control, do not have ultimate > control of the servers themselves. In my eyes, this would be a reason > not to use SF. The benefit, though, is that its got most things you > would need (and yes, fluff you don't). Whatever is decided, I think > all would agree that effort and focus should be placed on the project's > goals and objectives, not the headaches associated with setting up > your own cvs, lists, etc. > > If need be though, I can provide a mirror site or cvs, too. > > BTW, what is the time line as far as setting atleast something up? > > Just my $0.02 > > Brett > > > Sourceforge definitely has it's advantages of many minds on the > same > > track (clustering.foundries.sourceforge.net), with tons of poop > and > > fluff and hip linux talk being it's downside. > > > > If the idea of starting small and growing appeals to the team (to > > Andy), I suggest perhaps no sourceforge for now. > > > > If the idea of popularity, gossip, and a million people'ss > opinions > > seem beneficial and appeals to the team (to Andy), sourceforge > seems > > key. > > > > We can always start on SF and move off, or move TO it down the > road > > > ===== > public BrettDEstrade(){ > this.email="estrabd(at)yahoo(dot)com"; > this.url1="http://www.brettsbsd.net/"; > this.eFax="(253)484-8755"; > this.iM ="YMsg(estrabd),ICQ(46248888),AIM(bz743)"; > this.misc ="A.M.D.G."; > } > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message -- Ryan Mansager To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-cluster" in the body of the message