From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Dec 1 21:26:58 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01F516A4CE for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C36643FDF for ; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:26:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1AR33h-0005CZ-00; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 21:26:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:26:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: netbsd-advocacy@netbsd.org, , , Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Looking for presenters for LinuxFest Northwest in Bellingham, Washington X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: reed@reedmedia.net List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 05:26:58 -0000 The last two years at LinuxFest Northwest, I ran a booth for BSD advocacy and gave out many CDs donated from Wasabi Systems and FreeBSD Mall. This last year, a few other BSD advocates helped run the BSD advocacy booth and we raised a couple hundred dollars that we donated to two *BSD projects. I also gave a lecture introducing BSD at the conference two years ago to around 15 attendees. Then last year, I gave a BSD lecture to a full classroom of over 65 attendees. Is anyone interested in giving a lecture about BSD? Can someone help with organizing and running a booth about BSD? Can you donate or burn CDs? Print handouts? Make US letter size handouts that others can print? Print posters? The call for presenters and exhibitors email is at http://www.peakserv.com/pipermail/fest-list/2003-December/000971.html The event is April 17, 2004 in Bellingham, Washington, in between Seattle and Vancouver, BC. Last years attendance was estimated to be over 1100 people. Here are some old links about past events: http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=337 http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/5797.html http://newsvac.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/04/12/1742220 Please let me know if you are interested in helping. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ p.s. Notice that this email is carbon-copied to the Seattle-area BSD group. If you are in the area, please join the list and attend the meetings. http://www.seabug.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:13:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3998216A4CF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.northnetworks.ca (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE68143F75 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:12:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) hB2KBLCn043388; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:11:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) From: Steve Bertrand To: Dirk Meyer In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:12:31 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:13:00 -0000 On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 14:30, Dirk Meyer wrote: > Last week a hard disk in one of my FreeBSD firewalls crashed. > I like to share some statistics I gathered: > Perhaps you should redirect this questions to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, where it will have a better chance of getting answered. Regards, Steve > The system is a bridging firewall with no remote access. > No services running, so I had not much to patch (beside tcpdump). > > FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE #0: Mon Jun 26 12:55:47 CEST 2000 > Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz > CPU: i486DX (486-class CPU) > real memory = 16777216 (16384K bytes) > > data gathered at: Sat Nov 29 2003 01:59 > > Network interface status: > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll > lp0* 1500 0 0 0 0 0 > ed0 1500 00:00:c0:f8:92:bc 370677000 0 307824855 1446 541138 > ed0 1500 xxxxxx/29 bridge 370677000 0 307824855 1446 541138 > ed1 1500 00:00:c0:fb:eb:cd 307080085 85 331684237 11525 615507 > ed1 1500 xxxxxx/29 bridge 307080085 85 331684237 11525 615507 > lo0 16384 36 0 36 0 0 > lo0 16384 127 localhost 36 0 36 0 0 > > Local system status: > 1:59AM up 1212 days, 17:50, 0 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > A few calculations: > 1212 days running > 38992763 incoming packages dropped, 10.5 % > 744770 outgoing packages dropped, 0.2 % > 702361237 total packages seen. > 579506 average packages a day. > > last estimated reboot: Fri Aug 3 2000 08:10 > uptime: 3 years, 117 days. > > kind regards Dirk > > - Dirk Meyer, Im Grund 4, 34317 Habichtswald, Germany > - [dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org],[dirk.meyer@guug.de],[dinoex@FreeBSD.org] > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:28:34 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9580E16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1AB843FAF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB2KSS6T026437; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:28:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:28:12 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> In-Reply-To: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:28:34 -0000 Steve Bertrand wrote: >On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 14:30, Dirk Meyer wrote: > > >>Last week a hard disk in one of my FreeBSD firewalls crashed. >>I like to share some statistics I gathered: >> >> >> > >Perhaps you should redirect this questions to >freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, where it will have a better chance of >getting answered. > > Did you even READ the message? It definitely was advocacy related if you ask me.. 1200 days uptime? That's no question - that's an ANSWER. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:28:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F04A16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pittgoth.com (14.zlnp1.xdsl.nauticom.net [209.195.149.111]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149A743F75 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:28:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (acs-24-154-239-203.zoominternet.net [24.154.239.203]) by pittgoth.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hB2KSa6q002979; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:28:36 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from trhodes@FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:28:33 -0500 From: Tom Rhodes To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca Message-Id: <20031202152833.4efb29dc.trhodes@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:28:44 -0000 On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:12:31 -0500 Steve Bertrand wrote: > On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 14:30, Dirk Meyer wrote: > > Last week a hard disk in one of my FreeBSD firewalls crashed. > > I like to share some statistics I gathered: > > > > Perhaps you should redirect this questions to > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, where it will have a better chance of > getting answered. > I think that Dirk wanted to point out how long his system was up and running... -- Tom Rhodes From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:32:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4EB216A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:32:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.northnetworks.ca (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AEF43F75 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:32:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) hB2KVGCn043523; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:31:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) From: Steve Bertrand To: Eric Anderson In-Reply-To: <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1070397145.363.114.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:32:26 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:32:50 -0000 > Did you even READ the message? It definitely was advocacy related if > you ask me.. 1200 days uptime? That's no question - that's an ANSWER. > My deepest apologies! I am very sorry to make such an insulting post. My bad...my bad...I'll go back to see if mine made 200+ yet. Steve > Eric From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:35:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E4A916A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31CF643F85 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:35:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB2KZF6T027523; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:35:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FCCF774.5010209@centtech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:35:00 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> <1070397145.363.114.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> In-Reply-To: <1070397145.363.114.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:35:17 -0000 Steve Bertrand wrote: >>Did you even READ the message? It definitely was advocacy related if >>you ask me.. 1200 days uptime? That's no question - that's an ANSWER. >> >> >> > >My deepest apologies! I am very sorry to make such an insulting post. > >My bad...my bad...I'll go back to see if mine made 200+ yet. > :) no worries.. just wanted to make sure you realized what you were looking at.. 1200 is crazy.. Heh - my highest uptime on a box is 630 days - FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:41:43 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FC716A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.northnetworks.ca (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E41643F3F for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dev.eagle.ca [209.167.58.10]) hB2Ke9Cn043556; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:40:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from iaccounts@northnetworks.ca) From: Steve Bertrand To: Eric Anderson In-Reply-To: <3FCCF774.5010209@centtech.com> References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> <1070397145.363.114.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF774.5010209@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1070397678.363.118.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:41:19 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: iaccounts@northnetworks.ca List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:41:43 -0000 > :) no worries.. just wanted to make sure you realized what you were > looking at.. 1200 is crazy.. > > Heh - my highest uptime on a box is 630 days - FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE.. > Mine was 230 days, then Aug 14 came to Ontario :o( !hydro != uptime+1 Steve From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 12:53:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C1F16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:53:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D9D43FD7 for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (rocky [192.168.0.2]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB2Kqqn8082930; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 21:53:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3FCCFBA0.4000203@401.cx> Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:52:48 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eric Anderson References: <1070394752.363.105.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF5DC.1070902@centtech.com> <1070397145.363.114.camel@ptp.northnetworks.ca> <3FCCF774.5010209@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3FCCF774.5010209@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:53:17 -0000 Eric Anderson wrote: > Steve Bertrand wrote: > >>> Did you even READ the message? It definitely was advocacy related if >>> you ask me.. 1200 days uptime? That's no question - that's an ANSWER. >>> >> >> My deepest apologies! I am very sorry to make such an insulting post. >> >> My bad...my bad...I'll go back to see if mine made 200+ yet. >> > > :) no worries.. just wanted to make sure you realized what you were > looking at.. 1200 is crazy.. > > Heh - my highest uptime on a box is 630 days - FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE.. > > Eric > I've seen 650+ days on a FreeBSD 4.4-REL. Then someone was moving some UPS's around and managed to unplugg *both* powersupplies at the same time. Redundancy doesnt help if the admins are idiots. I do know of a P90 running OpenBSD that is closing in on 900 days, but I guess that belongs on another mailinglist. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 2 13:40:24 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0526F16A4CE for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from web60410.mail.yahoo.com (web60410.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.193]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E9DB43FAF for ; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:40:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031202214020.92210.qmail@web60410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.51.136] by web60410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:40:20 PST Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 13:40:20 -0800 (PST) From: twig les To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3FCCFBA0.4000203@401.cx> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:40:24 -0000 I have to ask... What about patching? My boxes are stripped down but eventually need a patch and subsequent reboot. That said I do have one 4.6 box at 267 (firewalled, very protected network). --- Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Eric Anderson wrote: > > Steve Bertrand wrote: > > > >>> Did you even READ the message? It definitely was advocacy > related if > >>> you ask me.. 1200 days uptime? That's no question - > that's an ANSWER. > >>> > >> > >> My deepest apologies! I am very sorry to make such an > insulting post. > >> > >> My bad...my bad...I'll go back to see if mine made 200+ > yet. > >> > > > > :) no worries.. just wanted to make sure you realized what > you were > > looking at.. 1200 is crazy.. > > > > Heh - my highest uptime on a box is 630 days - FreeBSD > 4.5-RELEASE.. > > > > Eric > > > > I've seen 650+ days on a FreeBSD 4.4-REL. Then someone was > moving some > UPS's around and managed to unplugg *both* powersupplies at > the same > time. Redundancy doesnt help if the admins are idiots. > > I do know of a P90 running OpenBSD that is closing in on 900 > days, but I > guess that belongs on another mailinglist. > > -- > R > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 01:33:51 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F62416A4CE; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:33:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A8C43FDD; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:33:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) hB39XhKU018221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:33:44 GMT (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost)id hB39XgCI018220; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:33:42 GMT (envelope-from matthew) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:33:42 +0000 From: Matthew Seaman To: Rob Message-ID: <20031203093342.GB17754@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: Rob , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <3FCD8549.7040908@users.sourceforge.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FCD8549.7040908@users.sourceforge.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=2.60 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD ftp site in India? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:33:51 -0000 --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 03:40:09PM +0900, Rob wrote: > No one interested there to set up an ftp.in.FreeBSD.org server? > Or is the FreeBSD community in India simply too tiny? Setting up a FreeBSD mirror in India would be welcome, but it does require someone to donate the necessary hardware and bandwidth. Getting someone -- or more likely, some business or university, to do that is a matter of having an active user community, preferably with some companies using and seeing the benefits of FreeBSD and of generating some critical mass around the idea. It doesn't take a huge number of people, but they would have to be close enough together to interact. Cheers, Matthew Reply-To set to freebsd-advocacy@... --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/za32dtESqEQa7a0RAguvAJkBcqlb1HQY+L4lAoFsqprE416R3ACgmUoj x3kZznKj5ux552b4IYRG0Pg= =QTpv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8P1HSweYDcXXzwPJ-- From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 01:48:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DF4016A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:48:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7CB043F3F for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (132.dairy.twenty4help.se [80.65.195.132]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB39lhn7089661; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:47:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3FCDB13A.90006@401.cx> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:47:38 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: twig les References: <20031202214020.92210.qmail@web60410.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031202214020.92210.qmail@web60410.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:48:02 -0000 twig les wrote: > I have to ask... > What about patching? My boxes are stripped down but eventually > need a patch and subsequent reboot. That said I do have one 4.6 > box at 267 (firewalled, very protected network). > > --- Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: >>I've seen 650+ days on a FreeBSD 4.4-REL. Then someone was >>moving some >>UPS's around and managed to unplugg *both* powersupplies at >>the same >>time. Redundancy doesnt help if the admins are idiots. >> >>I do know of a P90 running OpenBSD that is closing in on 900 >>days, but I >>guess that belongs on another mailinglist. >> >>-- >>R These boxes are just bridges without a IP address of their own. They are impossible to access other then via local console, so there is no need to patch them other then for functionality. The boxes I admin that are reachable via ip rarely sees more then ~50 days of uptime. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 05:10:03 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9595216A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk (reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk [149.170.192.65]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267CE43FE1 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:09:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from p.robinson@mmu.ac.uk) Received: from agena.mmu.ac.uk ([149.170.168.195]) by reverendtimms.isu.mmu.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1ARWlF-0000NB-00; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:09:45 +0000 Received: from MMU-HSS-AGENA/SpoolDir by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48); 3 Dec 03 13:09:45 +0100 Received: from SpoolDir by MMU-HSS-AGENA (Mercury 1.48); 3 Dec 03 13:09:09 +0100 Received: from PRGMMITER (149.170.101.200) by agena.mmu.ac.uk (Mercury 1.48) with ESMTP; 3 Dec 03 13:09:07 +0100 From: "Paul Robinson" To: "'Dirk Meyer'" , Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:09:06 -0000 Message-ID: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:10:03 -0000 Dirk Meyer wrote: > Local system status: > 1:59AM up 1212 days, 17:50, 0 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 Now, please don't take this the wrong way Dirk, but I need to use you to make a point here. 1. Uptimes of 1,200 days says wonderful things about FreeBSD. 2. Uptimes of 1,200 days says terrible things about the administrators of those boxes. You were attempting to make point 1, and yes, FreeBSD is very stable and that's all very impressive. However, point 2 needs some consideration. There are good reasons to be keeping track of -STABLE and even more reasons to be keeping track of -RELEASE. You can't have been doing either of those for the last 4 years. That, in my opinion, leaves you vulnerable in a few ways. Of course, the real answer here is to work on a way of allowing for an "upgrade" to happen without re-booting the machine, thereby getting kerenel patching without losing service or uptime. However, until we get to that point, consider patching at least once a quarter to a recent -RELEASE or even better, -STABLE cvsup, and go from there. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 05:48:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C5216A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rambo.401.cx (rambo.401.cx [80.65.205.166]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF94943F75 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:48:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Received: from 401.cx (132.dairy.twenty4help.se [80.65.195.132]) by rambo.401.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Dm1n7091798; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:48:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from listsub@401.cx) Message-ID: <3FCDE98B.8020701@401.cx> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:47:55 +0100 From: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Robinson References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> In-Reply-To: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:48:16 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > Dirk Meyer wrote: > > >>Local system status: >> 1:59AM up 1212 days, 17:50, 0 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 > > > Now, please don't take this the wrong way Dirk, but I need to use you to > make a point here. > > 1. Uptimes of 1,200 days says wonderful things about FreeBSD. > 2. Uptimes of 1,200 days says terrible things about the administrators > of those boxes. > > You were attempting to make point 1, and yes, FreeBSD is very stable and > that's all very impressive. However, point 2 needs some consideration. > There are good reasons to be keeping track of -STABLE and even more > reasons to be keeping track of -RELEASE. You can't have been doing > either of those for the last 4 years. That, in my opinion, leaves you > vulnerable in a few ways. > > Of course, the real answer here is to work on a way of allowing for an > "upgrade" to happen without re-booting the machine, thereby getting > kerenel patching without losing service or uptime. However, until we get > to that point, consider patching at least once a quarter to a recent > -RELEASE or even better, -STABLE cvsup, and go from there. I have to jump in and defend Dirk here, since I frequently get the exact same kind of comments when I tell people about the 900 days uptime on some openbsd boxes I admin. These boxes are pure bridges, sitting in front of other boxes and doing simple bridging with some filtering. They have no IP addresses on any of the interfaces and they have no services running, not even sshd. The only way to access them is via local console, or in some cases via serial console. I have checked the archives, and I cant find a single patch or exploit the last 4 years that would help the functionality or security of these boxes. Now, does my 900 days uptime still say terrible things about me as an administrator? I do take for granted that the machine Dirk mentioned in the original post is unreachable or in some other way impossible to penetrate similar to my bridges. If it is not, and is indeed reachable from the internet, then I fully agree with Paul and must question Dirk's administrator skills. Todays internet is to hostile for systems that isnt frequently and regularly patched and maintained. -- R From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 05:51:04 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23CCE16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:51:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from bast.unixathome.org (bast.unixathome.org [66.11.174.150]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52FC343FAF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:51:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from wocker (wocker.unixathome.org [192.168.0.99]) by bast.unixathome.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1723D34; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:51:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Dan Langille" To: "Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg" Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:51:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3FCDA3F6.29035.4317B763@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3FCDE98B.8020701@401.cx> References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:51:04 -0000 On 3 Dec 2003 at 14:47, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > I do take for granted that the machine Dirk mentioned in the > original post is unreachable or in some other way impossible to > penetrate similar to my bridges. If it is not, and is indeed > reachable from the internet, then I fully agree with Paul and must > question Dirk's administrator skills. Todays internet is to hostile > for systems that isnt frequently and regularly patched and maintained. >From Dirk's original post: "The system is a bridging firewall with no remote access. No services running, so I had not much to patch (beside tcpdump)." -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 06:03:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D63916A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:03:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from otter3.centtech.com (moat3.centtech.com [207.200.51.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E97343FDD for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 06:03:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Received: from centtech.com (neutrino.centtech.com [10.177.171.220]) by otter3.centtech.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hB3E3S6T032006 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:03:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from anderson@centtech.com) Message-ID: <3FCDED20.8050508@centtech.com> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:03:12 -0600 From: Eric Anderson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3FCDE98B.8020701@401.cx> In-Reply-To: <3FCDE98B.8020701@401.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:03:30 -0000 Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote: > Todays internet is to hostile for systems that isnt frequently and > regularly patched and maintained. Just curious, but, has anyone ever heard of a firewall? I typically don't let my machines be accessed from the internet, and I don't run services on an box that isn't needed. I'm just saying that there are levels of security - any machine touching the net (we all agree here) should have the latest patches and updates, without a doubt. What about a box that is internal, that doesn't allow local user logins, and/or runs a minimal amount of services (say, httpd and sshd)? Of course, those tools should be patched, and why not do the others too - but no reboot is needed for a lot of patches. I just think that "large uptime = bad admin" is a pretty shallow and close minded way to stereotype people based on how long a machine has been powered on without a reboot. Nobody said "1200 days without a security patch! woohoo!".. Anyway, this thread should probably move to -chat.. Eric -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology All generalizations are false, including this one. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 07:17:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 304AE16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:17:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp10.wxs.nl (smtp10.wxs.nl [195.121.6.35]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D740D43FE1 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 07:17:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp10.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPB00D8SPT8QK@smtp10.wxs.nl> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:34:21 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3Eaavv001739; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:36:36 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3EaZDv001738; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:36:35 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:36:35 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031126023643.6d69decd.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> To: Vulpes Velox Message-id: <20031203143635.GD394@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <000701c3b2ef$a617a080$7ffc2dd5@workstation> <20031126012951.GC1068@dds.nl> <3FC410B5.6050807@cyberlifelabs.com> <20031126023643.6d69decd.kitbsdlists@HotPOP.com> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Milo Hyson Subject: Re: what's unix and what's not X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:17:36 -0000 On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 02:36:43AM -0600, Vulpes Velox wrote: > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:32:21 -0800 > Milo Hyson wrote: > > > It is my understanding that the Linux kernel was built from scratch. It > > may be patterned after UNIX, but it wasn't based on it. BSD, on the > > other hand, is derived (indirectly) from the original work by Ritchie > > and Thompson. Of course, I may be on crack.... > > Yeah, more or less... it was mainly created as a minix clone, iirc. >From the data i have Minux was based on Unix v7 somewere in the mid 80 because a profferor wasn't allowed to use Unix as an example to its students. Even if the code wasn't simply copied then it would still be based on apperence to Unix and have has serveral times where it imported BSD code. So way not call it Unix? It proberbly has a legal argument. I have a jpg (900K) and a psd (12M) file with every UNIX OS for those who like to have this. -- Alex P.S. Please CC me. Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 09:19:36 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BC116A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhumketu.homeunix.net (dialpool-210-214-64-37.maa.sify.net [210.214.64.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 07B9143FD7 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:19:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@dhumketu.cjb.net) Received: (qmail 766 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Dec 2003 13:33:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:03:58 +0530 From: Shantanoo Mahajan To: Matthew Seaman Message-ID: <20031203133358.GA677@dhumketu.homeunix.net> References: <20031203093342.GB17754@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031203093342.GB17754@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Organization: Hmmm... I dunno X-OS: FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE-p11 i386 cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Rob Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD ftp site in India? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:19:36 -0000 +++ Matthew Seaman [freebsd] [03-12-03 09:33 +0000]: | On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 03:40:09PM +0900, Rob wrote: | | > No one interested there to set up an ftp.in.FreeBSD.org server? | > Or is the FreeBSD community in India simply too tiny? | | Setting up a FreeBSD mirror in India would be welcome, but it does | require someone to donate the necessary hardware and bandwidth. | Getting someone -- or more likely, some business or university, to do | that is a matter of having an active user community, preferably with | some companies using and seeing the benefits of FreeBSD and of | generating some critical mass around the idea. It doesn't take a huge | number of people, but they would have to be close enough together to | interact. | | Cheers, | | Matthew | | Reply-To set to freebsd-advocacy@... The Universities/Institutes which can provide bandwidth for this purpose are IIT's and IISc. IISc is hosting sunsite and also has the debian mirror. AFAIK, no one has FreeBSD mirror. the only Indian site regading BSD I know is www.bsd-india.org Shantanoo PS: Plz. Cc me the reply since I am not subscribed to -advocacy. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 09:55:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BCC16A4CF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from zeus.acuson.com (ac17860.acuson.com [157.226.71.80]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFC943FEA for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:55:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from DavidJohnson@Siemens.com) Received: from mvaexch02 ([157.226.230.209]:1422 helo=mvaexch02.acuson.com) by zeus.acuson.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ARbDi-0002lT-3E for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:55:25 -0800 Received: by mvaexch02.acuson.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:50:09 -0800 Received: from dhcp-46-155.acuson.com ([157.226.46.155]) by mvaexch01.acuson.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VDNNLRKC; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:49:03 -0800 From: Johnson David To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Organization: Siemens Medical Systems Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:53:24 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312030953.24810.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> X-Scanner: exiscan for exim4 (http://duncanthrax.net/exiscan/) *1ARbDi-0002lT-3E*AVJrnOnqu4E* Subject: FreeBSD, KDE and Me X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:55:35 -0000 I haven't seen this link come through this list yet, so I'll clue you in. This article is written by a long time Mac user who spent a few weeks using FreeBSD/KDE as his desktop while his PowerBook was down. One of the best reviews for any OS I've seen in a long time. David From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 09:56:53 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF0716A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from apollo.laserfence.net (apollo.laserfence.net [196.44.69.138]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29CFF43FE3 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:56:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@unfoldings.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1ARbEB-00039U-Aa; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:55:55 +0200 Received: from apollo.laserfence.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (apollo.laserfence.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11350-03; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:55:37 +0200 (SAST) Received: from [192.168.255.1] (helo=prometheus.home.laserfence.net) by apollo.laserfence.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD) id 1ARbDq-00039O-Tv; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:55:36 +0200 Received: from arista.home.laserfence.net ([192.168.0.10] helo=arista) by prometheus.home.laserfence.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1ARbDl-000IVJ-00; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:55:29 +0200 Message-ID: <00d601c3b9c6$b2754980$0a00a8c0@arista> From: "Willie Viljoen" To: "Shantanoo Mahajan" , "Matthew Seaman" References: <20031203093342.GB17754@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk> <20031203133358.GA677@dhumketu.homeunix.net> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:55:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at laserfence.net cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Rob Subject: Re: Why no FreeBSD ftp site in India? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 17:56:53 -0000 > The Universities/Institutes which can provide bandwidth for this > purpose are IIT's and IISc. IISc is hosting sunsite and also has the > debian mirror. AFAIK, no one has FreeBSD mirror. > > the only Indian site regading BSD I know is www.bsd-india.org > > Shantanoo Sadly, it is up to an institution hoping to host a mirror site to come forward and offer the space and bandwidth. The FreeBSD developers can't really go around asking people to host several gigabytes and dedicate big bandwidth, they would just think they are rude :) If you can convince someone from an IT department at your local university to get space and bandwidth, they should get in touch with the FreeBSD project, they should be able to find the addresses they need at http://www.FreeBSD.org/ Here in South Africa, we do not have many university IT departments that are seriously interested in any open source software. The only universities that provide large mirrors with lots of software are those operated by the Rhodes University Computer User Society, and by the University of Stellenbosch. These are limited though, they only carry some versions, and as far as I remember, Stellenbosch do not mirror ISO images. We are lucky however, to have a big ISP that seem to be committed to helping the cause. Internet Solution provide a full FreeBSD mirror including the latest ISOs. They also mirror most other popular open source software. Most people seem to think this was made possible because of IS's employees internally deciding to provide the mirrors, out of good will. Others speculate that it was to counter the incredible bandwidth usage caused by downloading ISOs, South Africa still has very slow international lines, so our ISPs mirror a lot of larger sites to try and keep international traffic within acceptable levels. For that kind of situation to occur though, you would either need an insider at a big ISP, or enough users to drive the ISPs up the wall with legitimate international bandwidth requirements that exceed what they can provide. Most ISPs in developing countries (I use those here in SA as an example) will go to absolutely any length to avoid having to buy bigger lines, especially international lines. Will From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 10:27:12 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467A616A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from web60407.mail.yahoo.com (web60407.mail.yahoo.com [216.109.118.190]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BCFC743FCB for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from twigles@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20031203182709.1059.qmail@web60407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.5.51.136] by web60407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:27:09 PST Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:09 -0800 (PST) From: twig les To: Johnson David , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200312030953.24810.DavidJohnson@Siemens.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: FreeBSD, KDE and Me X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:27:12 -0000 --- Johnson David wrote: > I haven't seen this link come through this list yet, so I'll > clue you > in. This article is written by a long time Mac user who spent > a few > weeks using FreeBSD/KDE as his desktop while his PowerBook was > down. > One of the best reviews for any OS I've seen in a long time. > > That is definitely a great article. Very objective in the criticisms and praises, author explains his background/biases, admits to not being an expert, addresses the novice concerns. I haven't used KDE for >2 years, maybe it's time to check it out again. This also reinforces my devious notion to get my wife on a Unix box via Mac, then after that who knows.... ===== ----------------------------------------------------------- Get a taste of Religion ... eat a priest! ----------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 13:48:27 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54BC216A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp11.wxs.nl (smtp11.wxs.nl [195.121.6.8]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6770D43FBF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:48:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from akruijff@www.kruijff.org) Received: from kruij557.speed.planet.nl (ipd50a97ba.speed.planet.nl [213.10.151.186]) by smtp11.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HPC005ND9X8KZ@smtp11.wxs.nl> for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:48:45 +0100 (MET) Received: from Alex.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kruij557.speed.planet.nl (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hB3LmQvv003885; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:48:26 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff@Alex.lan) Received: (from akruijff@localhost) by Alex.lan (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id hB3LmNcd003884; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:48:23 +0100 (CET envelope-from akruijff) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 22:48:23 +0100 From: Alex de Kruijff In-reply-to: <20031203143635.GD394@dds.nl> To: Vulpes Velox Message-id: <20031203214823.GE394@dds.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i References: <000701c3b2ef$a617a080$7ffc2dd5@workstation> <20031126012951.GC1068@dds.nl> <3FC410B5.6050807@cyberlifelabs.com> <20031203143635.GD394@dds.nl> cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Milo Hyson Subject: Re: what's unix and what's not X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:48:27 -0000 On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 03:36:35PM +0100, Alex de Kruijff wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2003 at 02:36:43AM -0600, Vulpes Velox wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:32:21 -0800 > > Milo Hyson wrote: > > > > > It is my understanding that the Linux kernel was built from scratch. It > > > may be patterned after UNIX, but it wasn't based on it. BSD, on the > > > other hand, is derived (indirectly) from the original work by Ritchie > > > and Thompson. Of course, I may be on crack.... > > > > Yeah, more or less... it was mainly created as a minix clone, iirc. > > >From the data i have Minux was based on Unix v7 somewere in the mid 80 > because a profferor wasn't allowed to use Unix as an example to its > students. > > Even if the code wasn't simply copied then it would still be based on > apperence to Unix and have has serveral times where it imported BSD > code. So way not call it Unix? It proberbly has a legal argument. > > I have a jpg (900K) and a psd (12M) file with every UNIX OS for those > who like to have this. I have instucted my server to protect images (i.e. only serving off certain domains.) I just googled on "unix history" and found this link. Its the same only the quality is a lot better than my jpg and it got the year above. This link bring you to the right date: http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#05 -- Alex P.S. Please CC me. Articles based on solutions that I use: http://www.kruijff.org/alex/index.php?dir=docs/FreeBSD/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 16:14:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD75816A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69E8343F3F for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:14:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A9F15442 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 32006-05 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F015215440 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:14:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FCE7C7C.3090901@adept.org> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:14:52 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: advocacy@freebsd.org References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> In-Reply-To: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:14:54 -0000 Paul Robinson wrote: > 1. Uptimes of 1,200 days says wonderful things about FreeBSD. > 2. Uptimes of 1,200 days says terrible things about the administrators > of those boxes. i can see both sides. i tend to agree (in practice) with #2, but i also know people running "mission critical" apps on 2.2.x... apps much larger than the ones i admin... so i can't really judge (too much). ;) > Of course, the real answer here is to work on a way of allowing for an > "upgrade" to happen without re-booting the machine, thereby getting > kerenel patching without losing service or uptime. However, until we get > to that point, consider patching at least once a quarter to a recent > -RELEASE or even better, -STABLE cvsup, and go from there. i believe the best/recommended way is to track the relevant (preferably latest) _security_ branch in production envrionments. that would be RELEASE + bug/security fixes. STABLE isn't always "stable" (for good reasons). i've tracked stable in production environments, but wouldn't suggest doing so unless you have a nice staging environment. tracking RELENG_x_x ("security") vs. RELENG_x ("stable") can avoid some hassle, but admittedly there are times when only STABLE will do. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 3 16:24:23 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C00B16A4CE for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org (fubar.adept.org [63.147.172.249]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A84643FAF for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:24:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mike@adept.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD4B15442 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fubar.adept.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fubar.adept.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 32009-08 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from adept.org (mojo.televoke.net [63.237.196.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fubar.adept.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA36715440 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:24:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FCE7EB5.8060409@adept.org> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:24:21 -0800 From: Mike Hoskins User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031110 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3FCDE98B.8020701@401.cx> <3FCDED20.8050508@centtech.com> In-Reply-To: <3FCDED20.8050508@centtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 00:24:23 -0000 Eric Anderson wrote: > Just curious, but, has anyone ever heard of a firewall? I typically defense in depth. security is multi-layered like an onion, or so people have been touting for the last decade, so you keep systems up to date and pay attention to host security as part of defense in depth... even when you have a firewall. bridges pass packets. if you assume a device passing packets (even when the device is "inaccessable" as defined in this thread) never needs patched... you are probably relatively safe, but you are not really "correct". bugs may occur and patches may be necessary that affect the bridging code itself, no? of course. again, the best way to make this issue moot is to get a working patch mechanism that doesn't require a reboot. talk about a HA pipe dream! > I just think that "large uptime = bad admin" is a pretty shallow and > close minded way to stereotype people based on how long a machine has > been powered on without a reboot. Nobody said "1200 days without a > security patch! woohoo!".. stereotypes never work. if you have good technical reasoning for what you're doing, great. i think some people are just a little more "anal" about security -- probably the same people getting paid to do security stuff where they work. ;) peace. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 10:51:52 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE00616A4CE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lilzmailso01.liwest.at (lilzmailso01.liwest.at [212.33.55.23]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C12343F93 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:51:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dgw@liwest.at) Received: from [212.33.58.27] (helo=cm58-27.liwest.at) by lilzmailso01.liwest.at with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ARyZl-0003Ad-JK; Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:51:45 +0100 From: Daniela To: Mike Hoskins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:46:58 +0000 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <002b01c3b99e$a1dc3340$6c01a8c0@MITERDOMAIN> <3FCDED20.8050508@centtech.com> <3FCE7EB5.8060409@adept.org> In-Reply-To: <3FCE7EB5.8060409@adept.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200312041946.58465.dgw@liwest.at> cc: advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: uptime 4.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:51:52 -0000 On Thursday 04 December 2003 00:24, Mike Hoskins wrote: > Eric Anderson wrote: > > Just curious, but, has anyone ever heard of a firewall? I typically > > defense in depth. security is multi-layered like an onion, or so people > have been touting for the last decade, so you keep systems up to date > and pay attention to host security as part of defense in depth... even > when you have a firewall. > > bridges pass packets. if you assume a device passing packets (even when > the device is "inaccessable" as defined in this thread) never needs > patched... you are probably relatively safe, but you are not really > "correct". bugs may occur and patches may be necessary that affect the > bridging code itself, no? of course. again, the best way to make this > issue moot is to get a working patch mechanism that doesn't require a > reboot. talk about a HA pipe dream! I tried to patch a running kernel once. You have to look for areas of the kernel memory that are not often accessed, where you can start writing your code to direct the kernel not to access further areas. This way you suspend the kernel step by step until you have a system that can just write to memory and not more. Of course you need to double and triple check the offsets. I wasn't so careful here, so I didn't succeed. I'm normally not such a terrible admin, but I'm young and I like playing with low-level stuff, and the machine doesn't do mission-critical things. BTW I had 18 days uptime at this point. Because of the error I made, I had to reboot. Never had more than 18 days until now, arrrgh! > > I just think that "large uptime = bad admin" is a pretty shallow and > > > > close minded way to stereotype people based on how long a machine has > > been powered on without a reboot. Nobody said "1200 days without a > > security patch! woohoo!".. > > stereotypes never work. if you have good technical reasoning for what > you're doing, great. i think some people are just a little more "anal" > about security -- probably the same people getting paid to do security > stuff where they work. ;) > > peace. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 4 23:59:10 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1AD16A4CE for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.euronet.nl (smtp1.euronet.nl [194.134.35.133]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3629A43F93 for ; Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:59:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from [192.168.1.42] (zp-c-13e65.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [81.69.92.101]) by smtp1.euronet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C09672B6; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:59:06 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <20031203214823.GE394@dds.nl> References: <000701c3b2ef$a617a080$7ffc2dd5@workstation> <20031126012951.GC1068@dds.nl> <3FC410B5.6050807@cyberlifelabs.com> <20031203143635.GD394@dds.nl> <20031203214823.GE394@dds.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Devon H.O'Dell Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:59:06 +0100 To: Alex de Kruijff X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org cc: Milo Hyson cc: Vulpes Velox Subject: Re: what's unix and what's not X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:59:10 -0000 >> because a profferor wasn't allowed to use Unix as an example to its >> students. >> >> Even if the code wasn't simply copied then it would still be based on >> apperence to Unix and have has serveral times where it imported BSD >> code. So way not call it Unix? It proberbly has a legal argument. >> UNIX is a trademark. You can't call something UNIX unless it has payed for the ability to use the name UNIX. This privilege also requires that your OS suffice several standards. >> I have a jpg (900K) and a psd (12M) file with every UNIX OS for those >> who like to have this. > And there's one text one that's 18k at /usr/share/misc/bsd-family-tree, except it's just a tree for the BSDs. > I have instucted my server to protect images (i.e. only serving off > certain domains.) > > I just googled on "unix history" and found this link. Its the same only > the quality is a lot better than my jpg and it got the year above. > This link bring you to the right date: > http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#05 > > -- > Alex > > P.S. Please CC me. I hate to be whiny here, but can we *please* *keep* *discussions* *on* *topic*. I know this is not a technical list, but please understand that if you want to have a discussion about things that aren't related to advocating FreeBSD, it's best if you remove the email address ``freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Perhaps the moderator(s) could create a FreeBSD General Discussion list? --Devon From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 09:39:26 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0473F16A4CE for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pilchuck.reedmedia.net (pilchuck.reedmedia.net [209.166.74.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AAE143FE0 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:39:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reed@reedmedia.net) Received: from reed by pilchuck.reedmedia.net with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASJuc-0001xA-00; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:38:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:38:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Jeremy C. Reed" To: "Devon H.O'Dell" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what's unix and what's not X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:39:26 -0000 > Perhaps the moderator(s) could create a FreeBSD General Discussion list? There is the "chat" list. Jeremy C. Reed http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Dec 5 09:42:08 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE3116A4CE; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from amsfep13-int.chello.nl (amsfep13-int.chello.nl [213.46.243.24]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D881243F93; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from sitetronics.com ([213.46.143.85]) by amsfep13-int.chello.nl ESMTP <20031205174203.KAIB28766.amsfep13-int.chello.nl@sitetronics.com>; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:42:03 +0100 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:42:01 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Devon H.O'Dell In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <5518C2AA-274A-11D8-B8AD-000502C708CB@sitetronics.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: what's unix and what's not X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:42:08 -0000 On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 06:38 PM, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: >> Perhaps the moderator(s) could create a FreeBSD General Discussion >> list? > > There is the "chat" list. > > Jeremy C. Reed > http://bsd.reedmedia.net/ > Yes, and this would be a perfect place for the discussion to continue -- sorry; I forgot about it initally. Note to involved/affected parties: when using reply-all, please remove freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org from the Cc: field ;P --Devon