From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 4 01:35:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB85316A4BF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.139]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A03B43FBF for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 01:35:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0e8.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.200] helo=mindspring.com) by puffin.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19upZt-0001f5-00; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:34:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3F56F8C4.145FA1A1@mindspring.com> From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diego Calleja =?iso-8859-1?Q?Garc=EDa?= References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030902180402.028e2380@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20030901143026.029afce0@localhost> <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> <29508631.20030901165843@mail.ru> <1062427379.15322.12.camel@suzy.unbreakable.homeunix.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20030901143026.029afce0@localhost> <4.3.2.7.2.20030902180402.028e2380@localhost> <20030903224346.4bbbf208.aradorlinux@yahoo.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4666ab6d8cee5afc28a757311dff54485350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: sub_0@netcabo.pt cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:35:05 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:33:08 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:35:05 -0000 Diego Calleja Garc=EDa wrote: > El Wed, 03 Sep 2003 13:19:39 -0600 Brett Glass escri= bi=F3: > > So, you're suggesting that FreeBSD users put up with incompatibilitie= s, > > glitches, and an unethical licensing regime merely because they can > > get something that KINDA works today? > = > Yes. This is called "being realistic". If you are willing to put up with that kind of crap, what's the point of writing your own OS, or even having source code for the OS you run? Shouldn't you just "be realistic" and just use the Windows that came installed on your machine? I've always viewed Open Source as a means of routing around the BS I would otherwise have to put up with when using closed source products... -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 15 17:34:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AED616A4B3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pixies.tirloni.org (pixies.tirloni.org [200.203.183.37]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FE143FA3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:34:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tirloni@tirloni.org) Received: by pixies.tirloni.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE8EE1E1426; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:34:52 -0200 (BRST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:34:52 -0200 From: "Giovanni P. Tirloni" To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031016003452.GJ89469@pixies.tirloni.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Subject: Network stack presentation - community input needed X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:34:54 -0000 Hi, I'm preparing a slide presentation about our network stack. It's targeted at the averate/intermediate network administrator that usually deals with NAT, filtering, bridging, IPSec, etc. I'd like input from the community, if possible, about what's a good way to present this beast. I've two ideas, 1) Show the features and numbers - A bit of history - What is supported - Performance numbers - Where it can be used - Small overview of each feature 2) How it's designed - No history - What are the big players (mbufs, interrupts, priorities, queues) - Where is possible to tweak it and how - The big picture - How packets travel (receive, send, forward, bridge, filter) - Where features (bridge, pfil/ipfw, netgraph) happen (above) I guess I would have to spend more time explaining mbufs, interrupts, priorities and other basic kernel components. Would that be excessive? If I choose the second path what are the most important things one should know when designing for performance and security? Anything to add to the list I made? I think I'm too focused on mbufs, interrupts and queues (ip input, socket buffers, iface output), anything else? I would like it to be a starting point for people interested in going deeper in the details. I should take about 45 minutes. Thanks in advance, -- Giovanni P. Tirloni Fingerprint: 8C3F BEC5 79BD 3E9B EDB8 72F4 16E8 BA5E D031 5C26 From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Oct 19 21:01:39 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D02A16A4B3; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail002.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail002.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.32]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AAEC43F75; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:01:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from ffreebsd.org@carmoda.com) Received: from carmoda.com (c211-28-220-147.kelvn1.qld.optusnet.com.au [211.28.220.147])h9K41YW29580; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:01:35 +1000 Message-ID: <3F93EBEA.9070900@carmoda.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:06:34 +0000 From: carmoda Organization: Anthony Carmody Consulting Pty Ltd User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030524 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20031019172258.57908.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031019172258.57908.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: peter lageotakes cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with ordinary user permissions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd.org@carmoda.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:01:39 -0000 ~sigh~ seems like an awful lot of stuffing around for something that a user/developer should be able to access by default *in my opinion*. so far i have about 30% of functionality of my previous W2K system after several times the time required for setup. [as a workstation] FreeBSD may be 'free' and more stable, but after i add my time to a setup it is over twice the price of XP Pro. Something HAS to be done on the install front. I did select 'developer + X-windows' in the sysinstall and i think it would make more sense if the account security was more 'open' for the average user given they would be 'developing' on the platform. i mean, half of my apps didnt work due to permissions being short. again, i did select that i wanted a 'developer - x-windows' install. peter lageotakes wrote: > Please check out the FreeBSD FAQ: > > 9.22. How do I let ordinary users mount floppies, > CDROMs and other removable media? > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#USER-FLOPPYMOUNT > > Pete > > >>Hi, >> >>I have been having a trouble getting various things >>to work on my new >>5.1 workstation with gnome 2.x. >> >>tonight i was attemtping to get 'gtoaster' [cd >>buring s/w] working as i >>couldnt see any drives, and when i tried adding them >>i encountered a few >>errors muttering about permissions. so i logged on a >>root and low and >>behold not only did i see all the CD drives, but i >>could also browse my >>Network, something i have not been able to do. >> >>what should do? >> >>migrate to using 'root' for my everyday login, or >>somehow 'up' my >>ordinary account..? >> >>anyone have any suggestions on either idea and >>perhaps if i should >>migrate how i could go about this...? >> >>please 'CC' me directly on replys... From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:35:50 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE48116A4D5 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B19BF43F75 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:35:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andreas.kohn@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 29543 invoked by uid 65534); 20 Oct 2003 09:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (EHLO [172.16.32.190]) (212.204.32.190) by mail.gmx.net (mp023) with SMTP; 20 Oct 2003 11:35:47 +0200 X-Authenticated: #2431876 From: Andreas Kohn To: freebsd.org@carmoda.com In-Reply-To: <3F93EBEA.9070900@carmoda.com> References: <20031019172258.57908.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3F93EBEA.9070900@carmoda.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-K9Q8pekDlKCeoqT46uga" Message-Id: <1066642544.710.6.camel@klamath> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:35:44 +0200 cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with ordinary user permissions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:51 -0000 --=-K9Q8pekDlKCeoqT46uga Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 16:06, carmoda wrote: > ~sigh~ >=20 > seems like an awful lot of stuffing around for something that a=20 > user/developer should be able to access by default *in my opinion*. so=20 > far i have about 30% of functionality of my previous W2K system after=20 > several times the time required for setup. [as a workstation] >=20 > FreeBSD may be 'free' and more stable, but after i add my time to a=20 > setup it is over twice the price of XP Pro. How many Windows setups have you done? How many FreeBSD setups? >=20 > Something HAS to be done on the install front. I did select 'developer +=20 > X-windows' in the sysinstall and i think it would make more sense if the=20 > account security was more 'open' for the average user given they would=20 > be 'developing' on the platform. i mean, half of my apps didnt work due=20 > to permissions being short. again, i did select that i wanted a=20 > 'developer - x-windows' install. >=20 please try to avoid the mistake of comparing XP and FreeBSD when your background is Windows. You will always find that FreeBSD (and FWIW Unix in general) is more difficult, and worse than Windows. The underlying concept of both operating systems is completely different, and you end up comparing apples and bananas. Instead try to understand the heritage of Unix, and you will find that most of the things you think of as "senseless" now have actually a logical reason. >=20 > peter lageotakes wrote: > > Please check out the FreeBSD FAQ: > >=20 > > 9.22. How do I let ordinary users mount floppies, > > CDROMs and other removable media? > >=20 > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/disks.html#USER-FL= OPPYMOUNT > >=20 > > Pete > >=20 > >=20 > >>Hi, > >> > >>I have been having a trouble getting various things > >>to work on my new=20 > >>5.1 workstation with gnome 2.x. > >> > >>tonight i was attemtping to get 'gtoaster' [cd > >>buring s/w] working as i=20 > >>couldnt see any drives, and when i tried adding them > >>i encountered a few=20 > >>errors muttering about permissions. so i logged on a > >>root and low and=20 > >>behold not only did i see all the CD drives, but i > >>could also browse my=20 > >>Network, something i have not been able to do. > >> > >>what should do? > >> > >>migrate to using 'root' for my everyday login, or > >>somehow 'up' my=20 > >>ordinary account..? > >> > >>anyone have any suggestions on either idea and > >>perhaps if i should=20 > >>migrate how i could go about this...? > >> > >>please 'CC' me directly on replys... >=20 Regards,=20 --=20 Andreas Kohn --=-K9Q8pekDlKCeoqT46uga Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQA/k6xvYucd7Ow1ygwRAsAEAJ94kaEAlYh68hLRSyGpGfrTeQP9vACfdw2j DnxY5HIjgRbMKET/jdySry0= =evxP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-K9Q8pekDlKCeoqT46uga-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 02:53:55 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5B316A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net (heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.189]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEDC43F3F for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:53:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc1a6.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.5.70] helo=mindspring.com) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABWjX-0003v8-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:53:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3F93B058.CADE8E9F@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 02:52:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4666692a5c43ead5352b4b65c9ddc6132a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Subject: Why is Yahoo (web40413.mail.yahoo.com) repeating? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:53:55 -0000 Why is Yahoo (web40413.mail.yahoo.com) repeating old mail to the list? -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 19:15:47 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130CF16A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte4.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CB143FAF for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:15:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (ws13.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.13]) h9L2Ffqp012369 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:15:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:15:41 -0700 From: jcw@highperformance.net To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <7915593.1066677341@[192.168.1.13]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.0.3 (Win32 Demo) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: ACAP Server fro FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:15:47 -0000 A quick search of "ACAP" in the ports tree yields nothing. Google show some talk about CMU ACAP and UW ACAP circa 1998. Does anyone here run ACAP to go with their IMAP servers? (Oh yeah, on FreeBSD hosts of course.) Later, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 19:20:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E7116A4B3 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte4.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528F243F85 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:20:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (s1.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.201])h9L2Khqq012390 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:20:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason C. Wells" X-X-Sender: jcw@s1.stradamotorsports.com To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <7915593.1066677341@[192.168.1.13]> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Subject: Re: ACAP Server fro FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:20:46 -0000 On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 jcw@highperformance.net wrote: > A quick search of "ACAP" in the ports tree yields nothing. Google show > some talk about CMU ACAP and UW ACAP circa 1998. Does anyone here run ACAP > to go with their IMAP servers? > > (Oh yeah, on FreeBSD hosts of course.) fro future reference, I hate it wehn I do taht. :( Jason From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 21:52:00 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF4B16A4B3; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net (eth0.a.smtp.sonic.net [64.142.16.244]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3296B43FBD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (adsl-64-142-29-77.sonic.net [64.142.29.77])h9L4psEM024914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:55 -0700 Received: from intruder.kitchenlab.org (bmah@localhost [127.0.0.1]) h9L4psnB063675; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah@intruder.kitchenlab.org) Received: (from bmah@localhost) by intruder.kitchenlab.org (8.12.9p2/8.12.9/Submit) id h9L4psNt063674; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bmah) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:51:53 -0700 From: "Bruce A. Mah" To: Jordan Hubbard Message-ID: <20031021045153.GA63507@intruder.kitchenlab.org> References: <200310201026.h9KAQtNT036568@repoman.freebsd.org> <20031020184415.GA42269@freebie.xs4all.nl> <20031020123851.J53088@root.org> <20031020210147.GA43224@freebie.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Image-Url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/Images/bmah-cisco-small.gif X-url: http://www.employees.org/~bmah/ cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/share/man/man5 remote.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:52:00 -0000 --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [moving from src-committers@ to chat@] If memory serves me right, Jordan Hubbard wrote: > Ah yes, ucbvax.... ucbvax!jkh was one of my most treasured vanity=20 > email addresses for many years.. :-) I vote for ucbarpa. Bruce. (ucbarpa!bmah) --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lLtp2MoxcVugUsMRAvavAJ9runJ+UV5KFCKDH+P2E4XsX3gJTQCgxm/q vMRH53TBP5RQ0Q8+sT3BUt8= =Z8q3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --zYM0uCDKw75PZbzx-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Oct 20 23:55:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B2616A4C0; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B6A743FBD; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:55:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0fk.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.244] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABqQm-0006uT-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:55:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3F94D7DF.632EEE65@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:53:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd.org@carmoda.com References: <20031019172258.57908.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3F93EBEA.9070900@carmoda.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a45333e7aa43bb305d0f0b07dc0c1eb7ba3ca473d225a0f487350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: peter lageotakes cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with ordinary user permissions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:55:54 -0000 carmoda wrote: > ~sigh~ > > seems like an awful lot of stuffing around for something that a > user/developer should be able to access by default *in my opinion*. so > far i have about 30% of functionality of my previous W2K system after > several times the time required for setup. [as a workstation] > > FreeBSD may be 'free' and more stable, but after i add my time to a > setup it is over twice the price of XP Pro. You charge too much. 8-) 8-). > Something HAS to be done on the install front. I did select 'developer + > X-windows' in the sysinstall and i think it would make more sense if the > account security was more 'open' for the average user given they would > be 'developing' on the platform. i mean, half of my apps didnt work due > to permissions being short. again, i did select that i wanted a > 'developer - x-windows' install. Windows defaults to "everyone on the Internet can write my disk"; FreeBSD defaults to "only root can write my disk"; OpenBSD defaults to "only God can write my disk, and even he needs a 1024 bit key". It's all a matter of trading security vs. ease of use. For the most part, you should install all software as root, and then expect that the software can be configured to "do the right thing" as part of the install. In general, I would say that most of your problems arise from the UNIX security model, and the failure of the software vendors or ports maintainers or both to anticipate you using your machine as if it's a signle use box. FWIW, if you are going to use the machine as a single user box, you probably want to create your user as uid 0:0, even if the name is not actually "root", and then auto-login the user without a password into something like a KDE environment. Then the console user owns all the hardware, and there's no issues for single user use that need you to go to root to resolve. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 00:45:02 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AA816A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218FA43F3F for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:45:01 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0fk.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.244] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABrCM-000491-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:44:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3F94E33C.89ED15BC@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:41:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jcw@highperformance.net References: <7915593.1066677341@[192.168.1.13]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4f88553da7895081c747fc8296d1f1a80a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACAP Server for FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:45:02 -0000 jcw@highperformance.net wrote: > A quick search of "ACAP" in the ports tree yields nothing. Google show > some talk about CMU ACAP and UW ACAP circa 1998. Does anyone here run ACAP > to go with their IMAP servers? > > (Oh yeah, on FreeBSD hosts of course.) Jeremy Allison (of SAMBA) and I ported the CMU ACAP to FreeBSD around 1998. We didn't end up using it for anything (as far as I can tell, it's only real use at this point is configuring the Eudora Pro email clients). We did the port because we were going to use it to send various configuration options down to InterJets. I'm pretty sure that we were the first people to ever get it to actually compile at all, let alone run, using GNU tools, which were pretty poor at esoteric C++ back then. At the time, we were GCC 2.93 (I believe), and we had to fix the compiler to support per-thread exception stacks. We also had to patch FreeBSD to the point that it was fully compliant with the pthreads Draft 4 specification (the standard was Draft 10, and no one had fully implemented it yet). The per-thread exception stack code was not the exception stack code that the EGCS folks ended up using (our didn't have overhead except for threaded apps; the EGCS code always has overhead). In addition, there were a number of patches required for the STL from the Moscow Center for Supercomputing (the best STL at that time, and, I think, still). Specifically, the lack of a mutex initializer (PTHREAD_MUTEX_INITIALIZER) for statically declared mutexes was a problem because of the Draft 4 state of FreeBSD pthreads. This is unlikely to be a problem for you. In addition, we had to reorder the objects when we linked, since the static constructures were called in declaration order, and the code made no provision for construction of pur virtual base classes in the correct order on the compiler, so if you linked out of order, it was a problem (we found this out by comparing to the Sun SPARC compiler). This may or may not still be an issue. Finally, the GCC compiler puked on some of the explicit scoping of namespaces for constructors and things. This was fixable by simply adding a " "after the "::". I don't know if this is still an issue, but if it is, that's the fix. If you want to retry a port, it should basically "just configure and build" from the CMU tarball, and if it doesn't, your problems are likely to be one of those above. If you run into porting issues, you can give me a yell, and I'll probably answer. 8-). -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 00:49:35 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7392E16A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CEF43F3F for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:49:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lc0fk.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.1.244] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ABrGm-0004jZ-00; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:49:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3F94E444.EC2D63AD@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:46:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jason C. Wells" References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a4f88553da7895081c79345ef383d11c32666fa475841a1c7a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ACAP Server fro FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:49:35 -0000 "Jason C. Wells" wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 jcw@highperformance.net wrote: > > A quick search of "ACAP" in the ports tree yields nothing. Google show > > some talk about CMU ACAP and UW ACAP circa 1998. Does anyone here run ACAP > > to go with their IMAP servers? > > > > (Oh yeah, on FreeBSD hosts of course.) > > fro future reference, I hate it wehn I do taht. Gee, hope you read -chat; your mailer just rejected my direct email because it came from one of Earthlink's mail servers. -- Terry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 05:55:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A5316A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from s1.stradamotorsports.com (ip30.gte4.rb1.bel.nwlink.com [209.20.215.30]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A90B43FBD for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:55:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (ws13.stradamotorsports.com [192.168.1.13]) h9LCtBhr013628; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:55:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jcw@highperformance.net) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:55:11 -0700 From: jcw@highperformance.net To: Terry Lambert Message-ID: <2468234.1066715711@[192.168.1.13]> In-Reply-To: <3F94E444.EC2D63AD@mindspring.com> References: <3F94E444.EC2D63AD@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.0.3 (Win32 Demo) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=DIRECT_EMAIL,IN_REP_TO,NO_REAL_NAME,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Inadvertent Spam Blocking Was: ACAP Server fro FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:55:16 -0000 --On Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:46 AM -0700 Terry Lambert wrote: > Gee, hope you read -chat; your mailer just rejected my direct email > because it came from one of Earthlink's mail servers. I do read chat. Thanks for your reply. I am sorry Terry. I haven't really figured out a good working method to stop spam that doesn't involve a 24 hour arms race on my part. I have a script that culls /24 nets from confirmed spam (a la SpamAssasin, RBLs and human review) and adds them to my deny list automagically. I knew the possibility existed that someone might get caught whom I didn't want to get caught. You are the first after using this script for a few months. Back to the drawing board. I determined your server's IP out of the other message and fixed my stuff. I stuck your server in my whitelist. At least this will keep you from getting nasty-grammed. It's not a good solution for the logn term. I thought Earthlink cleaned up their act. They even have TV commercials to that effect. Later, Jason C. Wells From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 14:10:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04E816A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22A143F85 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:10:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3mF-0002Hg-DN for chat@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:10:51 +0100 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3mD-000Nnu-QR for chat@FreeBSD.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:10:49 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:10:49 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: chat@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20031021211049.GN3708@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , chat@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WjpOG6URjntW8FAF" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies Subject: FAO Kevin Kinsey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:10:54 -0000 --WjpOG6URjntW8FAF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mmR5Tf+WJGm+vTLg" Content-Disposition: inline --mmR5Tf+WJGm+vTLg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kevin, This is retarded. Not only is your MTA rejecting mail and not saying why, but it's also doing it for mail addressed to postmaster. Apologies to the rest of the list, but I'm pretty short of options... Ceri --=20 --mmR5Tf+WJGm+vTLg Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <> Envelope-to: setantae@submonkey.net Delivery-date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:11 +0100 Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk ([212.250.77.214]) by shrike.submonkey.net with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3id-000Nn6-H8 for setantae@submonkey.net; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:07 +0100 Received: from mailnull by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3ic-0002HE-6K for setantae@submonkey.net; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:06 +0100 X-Failed-Recipients: postmaster@southernuniform.com, postmaster@daleco.biz Auto-Submitted: auto-generated From: Mail Delivery System To: setantae@submonkey.net Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:06 +0100 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60-rc3 (1.202-2003-08-29-exp) on shrike.private.submonkey.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-102.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD, MSGID_FROM_MTA_BACKUP,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.60-rc3 This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: postmaster@southernuniform.com SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:: host secure.southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]: 550 5.0.0 Access denied postmaster@daleco.biz SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:: host secure.southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]: 550 5.0.0 Access denied ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3iY-0002H9-Fl; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:02 +0100 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3iW-000Nmu-RE; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:00 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:07:00 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: postmaster@daleco.biz, postmaster@southernuniform.com Cc: Ceri Davies Subject: [Mailer-Daemon@shaft.techsupport.co.uk: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender] Message-ID: <20031021210700.GM3708@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , postmaster@daleco.biz, postmaster@southernuniform.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZjLa2K+dB9SFbrgo" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies --ZjLa2K+dB9SFbrgo Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="K0M4iRgkWWXhiQ9N" Content-Disposition: inline --K0M4iRgkWWXhiQ9N Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would be a good idea to provide some idea why the mail was blocked. Fancy giving me a clue? Cheers, Ceri --=20 --K0M4iRgkWWXhiQ9N Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: <> Envelope-to: setantae@submonkey.net Delivery-date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:58:03 +0100 Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk ([212.250.77.214]) by shrike.submonkey.net with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3Zo-000Nkm-Mz for setantae@submonkey.net; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:58:00 +0100 Received: from mailnull by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3Zn-0002G9-E3 for setantae@submonkey.net; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:57:59 +0100 X-Failed-Recipients: kdk@daleco.biz Auto-Submitted: auto-generated From: Mail Delivery System To: setantae@submonkey.net Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-Id: Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:57:59 +0100 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60-rc3 (1.202-2003-08-29-exp) on shrike.private.submonkey.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-101.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,BIZ_TLD, MSGID_FROM_MTA_BACKUP,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.60-rc3 This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: kdk@daleco.biz SMTP error from remote mailer after MAIL FROM:: host secure.southernuniform.com [66.76.92.18]: 550 5.0.0 Access denied ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3Zj-0002G4-G8; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:57:55 +0100 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1AC3Zh-000Nki-77; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:57:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:57:53 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: Kevin Kinsey Cc: FreeBSD-gnats-submit@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: docs/58318: missing modifier in crontab(5) manpage (changes meaning...) Message-ID: <20031021205753.GL3708@submonkey.net> References: <200310210533.h9L5XqXV060412@ezekiel.daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310210533.h9L5XqXV060412@ezekiel.daleco.biz> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 12:33:52AM -0500, Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > >Description: > Examination of context clearly shows that the word "Not" should appear > in the statement "Lists and ranges are allowed to co-exist in the > same field...." > >How-To-Repeat: > $man 5 crontab > # read the "Extensions" paragraph(s) I think you'll find that they *are* allowed (that is the nature of the extension). Read the paragraph again, bearing in mind that you are reading about Vixie cron: Lists and ranges are allowed to co-exist in the same field. "1-3,7-9" would be rejected by ATT or BSD cron -- they want to see "1-3" or "7,8,9" ONLY. i.e. this cron does allow it. Ceri -- --K0M4iRgkWWXhiQ9N-- --ZjLa2K+dB9SFbrgo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lZ/0ocfcwTS3JF8RAnBqAJ0WJSgnPsnYYQSvknjXaeDDI+STRgCgvSkI +KnTr4eJb0gmi5lYPS13sCo= =kva7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZjLa2K+dB9SFbrgo-- --mmR5Tf+WJGm+vTLg-- --WjpOG6URjntW8FAF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/laDZocfcwTS3JF8RAgU1AJ9wfIOa8rN5UpjnvR63Xrq9878sHgCfSVWX 8kE8n4ecBaqCj7F1vK8k4iU= =ke3P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WjpOG6URjntW8FAF-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 17:37:59 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA34516A4B3; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from krell.webweaver.net (krell.webweaver.net [64.124.90.11]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D9943F93; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:37:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nicole@unixgirl.com) Received: from vorlon1.webweaver.net (adsl-67-112-21-28.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.112.21.28]) by krell.webweaver.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B1A320F0A; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F94D7DF.632EEE65@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:37:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicole To: Terry Lambert cc: freebsd.org@carmoda.com cc: peter lageotakes cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problems with ordinary user permissions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:38:00 -0000 An example of how spliting BSD into BSD server and BSD desktop could be a benefit. Nicole On 21-Oct-03 My Homeland Security Spies reported that Terry Lambert said: > carmoda wrote: >> ~sigh~ >> >> seems like an awful lot of stuffing around for something that a >> user/developer should be able to access by default *in my opinion*. so >> far i have about 30% of functionality of my previous W2K system after >> several times the time required for setup. [as a workstation] >> >> FreeBSD may be 'free' and more stable, but after i add my time to a >> setup it is over twice the price of XP Pro. > > You charge too much. 8-) 8-). > > >> Something HAS to be done on the install front. I did select 'developer + >> X-windows' in the sysinstall and i think it would make more sense if the >> account security was more 'open' for the average user given they would >> be 'developing' on the platform. i mean, half of my apps didnt work due >> to permissions being short. again, i did select that i wanted a >> 'developer - x-windows' install. > > Windows defaults to "everyone on the Internet can write my disk"; > FreeBSD defaults to "only root can write my disk"; OpenBSD defaults > to "only God can write my disk, and even he needs a 1024 bit key". > > It's all a matter of trading security vs. ease of use. > > For the most part, you should install all software as root, and > then expect that the software can be configured to "do the right > thing" as part of the install. > > In general, I would say that most of your problems arise from the > UNIX security model, and the failure of the software vendors or > ports maintainers or both to anticipate you using your machine as > if it's a signle use box. > > FWIW, if you are going to use the machine as a single user box, > you probably want to create your user as uid 0:0, even if the name > is not actually "root", and then auto-login the user without a > password into something like a KDE environment. > > Then the console user owns all the hardware, and there's no issues > for single user use that need you to go to root to resolve. > > -- Terry > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- ******* |\ __ /| (`\ ******* * * | o_o |__ ) ) * * * * // \\ * * * Blessed Be! | Powered by FreeBSD * ----------------------(((---(((-------------------------------- http://www.unixgirl.com - http://www.deviantimages.com http://www.drumslayer.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." --Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. "Witchcraft is in essence the worship of the powers of this world, beautiful and terrible, but all in a circle under the turning sky that is the One." -C.A. Burland, "Echoes of Magic" "Connecting with energy is something humans have to be open to and talking about and expecting, otherwise the whole human race can go back to pretending that life is about power over others and exploiting the planet. If we go back to doing this, then we won't survive." -James Redfield, "The Celestine Prophecy" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Oct 21 20:17:17 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A1716A4B3 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns1.tiadon.com (SMTP.tiadon.com [69.27.132.161]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42DE43FCB for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:17:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kdk@daleco.biz) Received: from daleco.biz ([69.27.131.47]) by ns1.tiadon.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:19:52 -0500 Message-ID: <3F95F668.8040808@daleco.biz> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:15:52 -0500 From: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030920 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ceri Davies References: <20031021211049.GN3708@submonkey.net> In-Reply-To: <20031021211049.GN3708@submonkey.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2003 03:19:52.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BEACEB0:01C3984B] cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FAO Kevin Kinsey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:17:18 -0000 Ceri Davies wrote: >Kevin, > >This is retarded. >Not only is your MTA rejecting mail and not saying why, but it's also doing >it for mail addressed to postmaster. > >Apologies to the rest of the list, but I'm pretty short of options... > >Ceri > >-- > > FWIW, I'll apologize; but I think you're the only one having this problem. Not that it's your fault, or even aimed at you directly. Read on. > >It would be a good idea to provide some idea why the mail was blocked. >Fancy giving me a clue? > >Cheers, > >Ceri > > > You caught me slightly off guard. I get mail to "webmaster" and postmaster@daleco.biz with great frequency, as well as kdk@. A check at DNSreport.com did, however, show that my backup MX was rejecting these addresses, at least according to the site. I recently rebuilt that box with a larger HDD and apparently missed an entry in ~/relay-domains. But, that's not even the half of it. I decided to see where you're coming from: [/etc/mail] [21:56] #host shrike.mine.nu shrike.mine.nu has address 81.103.67.204 [/etc/mail] [21:56] #grep 81. /etc/hosts.allow sshd : 64.81.184.138 : deny sendmail : 221.113.81.118 : deny sendmail : 164.77.181.18 : deny sendmail : 164.77.181.33 : deny sendmail : 65.57.172.181 : deny sendmail : 68.81.193.240 : deny sendmail : 204.118.181.49 : deny sendmail : 81. : deny sendmail : 62.157.81.199 : deny Some time ago, sick of spamming, I wrote a script that kicks addresses from which spam is received into /etc/hosts.allow. We also added some entries manually during the writing process. We caught your entire Class A. Dunno how, exactly. Lots of junk from there, I suppose?? Yeah, we need a better way. Maybe someday. Until then, shrike gets a better ranking, I suppose....... >On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 12:33:52AM -0500, Kevin Kinsey wrote: > > >>>Description: >>> >>> >> Examination of context clearly shows that the word "Not" should appear >> in the statement "Lists and ranges are allowed to co-exist in the >> same field...." >> >> >>>How-To-Repeat: >>> >>> >> $man 5 crontab >> # read the "Extensions" paragraph(s) >> >> > >I think you'll find that they *are* allowed (that is the nature of the extension). >Read the paragraph again, bearing in mind that you are reading about Vixie cron: > > Lists and ranges are allowed to co-exist in the same field. "1-3,7-9" > would be rejected by ATT or BSD cron -- they want to see "1-3" or "7,8,9" > ONLY. > >i.e. this cron does allow it. > >Ceri > > > Well, thanks for the explanation. Might we consider making this more clear in some manner? The fact that this is Vixie cron, and not BSD cron, would not be obvious to the novice. Witness me, for example... I know we're running "Vixie Cron", or at least that Paul V wrote it, and that such a thing exists. But this document that never mentions it, while it does mention ATT & BSD cron. Since these are, at least, casually, the names of the two major "branches" of UNIX-like OS's, it's relatively easy to assume that the paragraph in question is comparing the (native-actually-Visie) "BSD" cron to the "ATT"/SysV cron, particularly after a long day in the trenches. My apologies, in all regards. Thanks for handling the pr so quickly. Kevin Kinsey *@daleco.biz From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 02:04:30 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F33E16A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shaft.techsupport.co.uk (shaft.techsupport.co.uk [212.250.77.214]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7C143F93 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:04:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from setantae@submonkey.net) Received: from cpc2-cdif3-6-0-cust204.cdif.cable.ntl.com ([81.103.67.204] helo=shrike.submonkey.net ident=mailnull) by shaft.techsupport.co.uk with esmtp (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1ACEup-0004II-IK; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:04:27 +0100 Received: from setantae by shrike.submonkey.net with local (Exim 4.24; FreeBSD 4.9) id 1ACEul-0001Gh-N8; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:04:23 +0100 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:04:23 +0100 From: Ceri Davies To: "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." Message-ID: <20031022090423.GA350@submonkey.net> Mail-Followup-To: Ceri Davies , "Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P." , chat@freebsd.org References: <20031021211049.GN3708@submonkey.net> <3F95F668.8040808@daleco.biz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AqsLC8rIMeq19msA" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3F95F668.8040808@daleco.biz> X-PGP: finger ceri@FreeBSD.org User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i Sender: Ceri Davies cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FAO Kevin Kinsey X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:04:30 -0000 --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 10:15:52PM -0500, Kevin D. Kinsey, DaleCo, S.P. wro= te: > Ceri Davies wrote: >=20 > >Kevin, > > > >This is retarded. > >Not only is your MTA rejecting mail and not saying why, but it's also do= ing > >it for mail addressed to postmaster. > > > >Apologies to the rest of the list, but I'm pretty short of options... > > > >Ceri > > > >--=20 > >=20 > > >=20 > FWIW, I'll apologize; but I think you're the only > one having this problem. Not that it's your fault, > or even aimed at you directly. Read on. I came across a bit strongly there, for which I also apologise. > >It would be a good idea to provide some idea why the mail was blocked. > >Fancy giving me a clue? >=20 > You caught me slightly off guard. I get mail > to "webmaster" and postmaster@daleco.biz > with great frequency, as well as kdk@. >=20 > A check at DNSreport.com did, however, show > that my backup MX was rejecting these addresses, > at least according to the site. I recently rebuilt > that box with a larger HDD and apparently missed > an entry in ~/relay-domains. >=20 > But, that's not even the half of it. I decided to > see where you're coming from: >=20 > [/etc/mail] [21:56] #host shrike.mine.nu > shrike.mine.nu has address 81.103.67.204 > [/etc/mail] [21:56] #grep 81. /etc/hosts.allow > sshd : 64.81.184.138 : deny > sendmail : 221.113.81.118 : deny > sendmail : 164.77.181.18 : deny > sendmail : 164.77.181.33 : deny > sendmail : 65.57.172.181 : deny > sendmail : 68.81.193.240 : deny > sendmail : 204.118.181.49 : deny > sendmail : 81. : deny > sendmail : 62.157.81.199 : deny >=20 > Some time ago, sick of spamming, I wrote > a script that kicks addresses from which > spam is received into /etc/hosts.allow. >=20 > We also added some entries manually > during the writing process. >=20 > We caught your entire Class A. Dunno > how, exactly. Lots of junk from there, > I suppose?? >=20 > Yeah, we need a better way. Maybe > someday. Until then, shrike gets > a better ranking, I suppose....... Hmm, well I wouldn't do that, as my IP is dynamic. However, 81/8 is shared over at least 3 ISPs so it might be an idea to be more granular. The main point here though is that I relay my mail through 212.250.77.214, which hopefully isn't on the list above and therefore I'm still not sure why it's being rejected; if there has been spam going through that machine then I'd like to know as I'm personally responsible for that host. > > Lists and ranges are allowed to co-exist in the same field. "1-3,7-= 9" > > would be rejected by ATT or BSD cron -- they want to see "1-3" or=20 > > "7,8,9" > > ONLY. > > > >i.e. this cron does allow it. >=20 > Might we consider making this more clear > in some manner? The fact that this is Vixie > cron, and not BSD cron, would not be obvious > to the novice. Witness me, for example... ;-) I'll see what I can do. If this is in contrib/ then we'd probably need to submit it back to Paul which may take a while longer, so please bear with it. > Since these are, at least, casually, the names of > the two major "branches" of UNIX-like OS's, it's > relatively easy to assume that the paragraph in > question is comparing the (native-actually-Visie) > "BSD" cron to the "ATT"/SysV cron, particularly > after a long day in the trenches. Yeah, I can see where the confusion stems from. Ceri --=20 --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE/lkgXocfcwTS3JF8RAuU8AJ9CUVehdld1X88/RDJPaJDIUfgwhACeM0Od KPjPBTUTJVuNbfF/8bOnEpo= =pmbH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AqsLC8rIMeq19msA-- From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 15:56:05 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A16816A4BF for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (203-114-139-2.inspire.net.nz [203.114.139.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D1B043FBF for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:56:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 41243 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2003 22:56:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.184) by 203-114-136-5.inspire.net.nz with SMTP; 22 Oct 2003 22:56:00 -0000 Message-ID: <3F970B64.5090402@outpost.co.nz> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:57:40 +1300 From: Craig Harding Organization: Disinformation, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org References: <20031019172258.57908.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3F93EBEA.9070900@carmoda.com> <3F94D7DF.632EEE65@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3F94D7DF.632EEE65@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Problems with ordinary user permissions X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:56:05 -0000 Terry Lambert wrote: > Windows defaults to "everyone on the Internet can write my disk"; > FreeBSD defaults to "only root can write my disk"; OpenBSD defaults > to "only God can write my disk, and even he needs a 1024 bit key". One for the fortune file! Well, it made me laugh. :) -- C. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 01:36:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E16E516A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.broadpark.no (mail.broadpark.no [217.13.4.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C824B43F75 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:36:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (37.80-203-228.nextgentel.com [80.203.228.37]) by mail.broadpark.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2031C79051 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:36:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: by smtp.des.no (Pony Express, from userid 666) id DC9669B9AB; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:36:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from dwp.des.no (dwp.des.no [10.0.0.4]) by smtp.des.no (Pony Express) with ESMTP id C5DB49B992 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:36:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: by dwp.des.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id BA593B823; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:36:37 +0200 (CEST) To: chat@freebsd.org From: des@des.no (Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?=) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:36:37 +0200 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090024 (Oort Gnus v0.24) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on dsa.des.no X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Subject: the IBM way X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:36:45 -0000 I'm sitting at my desk staring absently at my mousepad while thinking deep thoughts about a proposed FreeBSD patch. My mousepad happens to be an IBM promotional item for their smart card security kit. It is however a very *nice* mousepad (a 3M Precise Mousing Surface thingy which is excellent for optical mice), and I kinda like IBM, so I don't really mind. Until I notice what is printed in the lower right-hand corner: FRU PN 33L5025 Now, at last, I can sleep soundly at night, safe in the knowledge that if I ever lose or damage my mousepad, I can order a new one from IBM. Except, that is, for the nights I lie awake, slightly disturbed and worried at the idea of an IBM warehouse somewhere full of promotional mouse pads, kept there in case someone calls in and asks for Field Replaceable Unit Part Number 33L5025. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 23 17:44:44 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E027616A4B3 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lariat.org (lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEAA43FAF for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:44:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from brett@lariat.org) Received: from runaround.lariat.org (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.org@lariat.org [63.229.157.2]) by lariat.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16080; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:44:37 -0600 (MDT) X-message-flag: Warning! Use of Microsoft Outlook renders your system susceptible to Internet worms. Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023184400.04e16118@localhost> X-Sender: brett@localhost (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:44:37 -0600 To: des@des.no (Dag-Erling Smørgrav), chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: the IBM way X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:44:45 -0000 At 02:36 AM 10/23/2003, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >Except, that is, for the nights I lie awake, slightly disturbed and >worried at the idea of an IBM warehouse somewhere full of promotional >mouse pads, kept there in case someone calls in and asks for Field >Replaceable Unit Part Number 33L5025. I'm sure they also have a part number for replacement mouse balls. ;-) --Brett