From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 19 01:06:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6115106566B for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91AAB8FC1A for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: (qmail 24874 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2009 01:06:02 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Apr 2009 01:06:01 -0000 Message-ID: <49EA7935.4080804@telenix.org> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:07:01 -0400 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Tinguely References: <200904182152.n3ILq6vd003076@casselton.net> In-Reply-To: <200904182152.n3ILq6vd003076@casselton.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: id=F3DCA0E9; url=http://pgp.mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: gballet@gmail.com, freebsd-arm@freebsd.org, ticso@cicely.de Subject: Re: Pandora X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:06:02 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mark Tinguely wrote: > Sorry if I sounds like I am questioning what you are saying, I am not. > I understand the OMAP 3530 is an ARMv7. The point I was trying to make is > the ARM versions have a lot of back compatibility. It is the TI OMAP 3570 > web page where they say this is an ARMv7 chip that says "Fully > Software-Compatible With C64x and ARM9". This is very likely a problem with me. I've written to both the FreeBSD list and the OpenBSD one about getting a BSD onto my new machine, because I'm not sure which way to go, but doing that has confused me ... I don't know if I'm acting wrong in approaching both. I've run FreeBSD a whole lot longer, and done more work in it, but I *think* that OpenBSD had a better ARM implementation. So, I can't decide which way to go, or if I can do both (??), and it's making me feel guilty, some. I'm not sure I'm acting honestly here, and that might be making me be too quick on the draw. I had only read about the 3503, 3510, 3515, and 3530, never saw any mention yet of 3570. I thought you were referring to software identification, not what kind of backwards compatibility there is. I'm reading more about that, I could surely learn more, I just was saying that all the stuff I've read so far tells me that OMAP3530 (or, I suppose OMAP35XX) is ARMv7. Lots of backwards compatibility built into the Arms, isn't there? > > I don't have the ARMv7 AR Reference manual OK, I can help there. I've been putting everything I've downloaded into one directory, and I just stuck all of the better pieces into my public_html/arm directory of people.freebsd.org. The name of the latest ARMv7A tech manual is DDI0344I_cortex_a8_r3p1_trm.pdf. I'm sorry if the naming could be better, but it's not so huge, you can download it all and then look it over, there's things that are worth your time in there. , and there are a lot of > details missing from the Cortex A8 Technical Manual, and the "ARMv5 ARM" > covers ARMv6 with the exception of the TrustZone, so I don't know how the > new TrustZone / security features are on by default in the ARMv7 and how > much one can bypass them. I've seen some scary things on the web (and from friends, too) that're telling me that Arm's TrustZone (and a similar thing for other processors) is a quiet way for Hollywood to get their DRM stuff so wired into machines that no software can get around it. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, it's scarily reminiscent of SkipJack and the ClipperChip, which was NSA's attempt a couple of decades ago to force government backdoors into all commercial encryption. If that was true (and no one can argue that wasn't) then maybe this TrustZone thing can be true also? IF TrustZone is "Made in Hollywood" then I would pay anything to get an OS which was capable of blocking it. I need to learn more about it; if anyone knows more, go ahead and set me straight. I figure that all of the writeups I could find on it are probably written in such a way as to mostly hide the unpleasant facts of things, if they're written by the same folks who push DRM. God, I sound like a conspiracy theorist, don't I? I gotta find the truth of things, just so I don't push things too far if I have it all wrong. > > --Mark. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknqeTUACgkQz62J6PPcoOm1egCgnMGTLaUfmpxxZ/hS+NH5GiBp T5MAoIGzsXee+6hc0LAc56cLUG2Wn4dT =Avz4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 19 17:23:22 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BD5A1065676 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:23:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: from mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8748FC17 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:23:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chuckr@telenix.org) Received: (qmail 2048 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2009 16:55:20 -0000 Received: from april.chuckr.org (HELO april.telenix.org) (chuckr@[66.92.151.30]) (envelope-sender ) by mail1.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 19 Apr 2009 16:55:20 -0000 Message-ID: <49EB577A.1070006@telenix.org> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:55:22 -0400 From: Chuck Robey User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090121) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: arm@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.5 OpenPGP: id=F3DCA0E9; url=http://pgp.mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: comparing archs X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:23:22 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What would be a good arm cpu to use as a comparison, so that I can constrast the Cortex-A8 Armv7A processor in my Pandora against the (whatever) processor which would typify the Arm6 architecture that is already implemented in FreeBSD? Would there be one of those arm11** processors to do it, like maybe the arm1136? Or another one? I found that the Arm folks don't release the Armv7 architecture document for the latest version, you need to be a Arm vendor with a "business reason" to get that. I got one for the Arm6 arch, but I'm not sure which particular one typifies what FreeBSD's implemented already. I want to be able to contrast things like memory management. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknrV3gACgkQz62J6PPcoOmI0gCfeReRPzqGKinVK3fojSGUm66W ymkAn3gkiD+/ouJj0vlPW0UONRWJ8AQy =cK6n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 19 17:48:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F83A1065674 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:48:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78C28FC14 for ; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:48:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n3JHifvL092058; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:45:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20090419.114541.1355716995.imp@bsdimp.com> To: chuckr@telenix.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <49EB577A.1070006@telenix.org> References: <49EB577A.1070006@telenix.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: arm@freebsd.org Subject: Re: comparing archs X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:48:02 -0000 In message: <49EB577A.1070006@telenix.org> Chuck Robey writes: : -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- : Hash: SHA1 : : What would be a good arm cpu to use as a comparison, so that I can constrast the : Cortex-A8 Armv7A processor in my Pandora against the (whatever) processor which : would typify the Arm6 architecture that is already implemented in FreeBSD? That was rather the point of my earlier email: There aren't any armv6 processors implemented today. Much of the base code is there, but I don't think we have all the goo in place for an actual SoC. : Would there be one of those arm11** processors to do it, like maybe the arm1136? : Or another one? : : I found that the Arm folks don't release the Armv7 architecture document for the : latest version, you need to be a Arm vendor with a "business reason" to get : that. I got one for the Arm6 arch, but I'm not sure which particular one : typifies what FreeBSD's implemented already. The way to find out what is implemented is to grep the source. For example, the atmel AT91RM9200 uses an ARM920T core and implements armv4. The Marvel parts implement armv5 (with a few quirks). You can tell this by looking at either the cache operations that are defined for each port, or the bus space operations (they are often optimized for each rev of ARM spec). Warner From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 19 22:24:21 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: arm@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D1F1065674; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:24:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tinderbox@freebsd.org) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [64.7.153.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D87F8FC1B; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:24:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tinderbox@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp2.sentex.ca (smtp2c.sentex.ca [64.7.153.30]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n3JMOJB8003642; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:24:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tinderbox@freebsd.org) Received: from freebsd-current.sentex.ca (freebsd-current.sentex.ca [64.7.128.98]) by smtp2.sentex.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n3JMOJ2U052973; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:24:19 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from tinderbox@freebsd.org) Received: by freebsd-current.sentex.ca (Postfix, from userid 666) id 0B57A7302F; Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Sender: FreeBSD Tinderbox From: FreeBSD Tinderbox To: FreeBSD Tinderbox , , Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <20090419222419.0B57A7302F@freebsd-current.sentex.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:24:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.1 at smtp2.sentex.ca X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.64 on 64.7.153.18 Cc: Subject: [head tinderbox] failure on arm/arm X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:24:22 -0000 TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:00 - tinderbox 2.6 running on freebsd-current.sentex.ca TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:00 - starting HEAD tinderbox run for arm/arm TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:00 - cleaning the object tree TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:38 - cvsupping the source tree TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:38 - /usr/bin/csup -z -r 3 -g -L 1 -h localhost -s /tinderbox/HEAD/arm/arm/supfile TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - building world TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=/obj TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - TARGET=arm TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - TARGET_ARCH=arm TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - TZ=UTC TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - __MAKE_CONF=/dev/null TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - cd /src TB --- 2009-04-19 22:00:48 - /usr/bin/make -B buildworld >>> World build started on Sun Apr 19 22:00:51 UTC 2009 >>> Rebuilding the temporary build tree >>> stage 1.1: legacy release compatibility shims >>> stage 1.2: bootstrap tools >>> stage 2.1: cleaning up the object tree >>> stage 2.2: rebuilding the object tree >>> stage 2.3: build tools >>> stage 3: cross tools >>> stage 4.1: building includes >>> stage 4.2: building libraries [...] cc -O -pipe -DPTHREAD_KERNEL -I/src/lib/libthr/../libc/include -I/src/lib/libthr/thread -I/src/lib/libthr/../../include -I/src/lib/libthr/arch/arm/include -I/src/lib/libthr/sys -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf/arm -I/src/lib/libthr/../libthread_db -Winline -D_PTHREADS_INVARIANTS -DSYSCALL_COMPAT -std=gnu99 -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign -c /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_pspinlock.c cc -O -pipe -DPTHREAD_KERNEL -I/src/lib/libthr/../libc/include -I/src/lib/libthr/thread -I/src/lib/libthr/../../include -I/src/lib/libthr/arch/arm/include -I/src/lib/libthr/sys -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf/arm -I/src/lib/libthr/../libthread_db -Winline -D_PTHREADS_INVARIANTS -DSYSCALL_COMPAT -std=gnu99 -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign -c /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_resume_np.c cc -O -pipe -DPTHREAD_KERNEL -I/src/lib/libthr/../libc/include -I/src/lib/libthr/thread -I/src/lib/libthr/../../include -I/src/lib/libthr/arch/arm/include -I/src/lib/libthr/sys -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf -I/src/lib/libthr/../../libexec/rtld-elf/arm -I/src/lib/libthr/../libthread_db -Winline -D_PTHREADS_INVARIANTS -DSYSCALL_COMPAT -std=gnu99 -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign -c /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_rtld.c /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_rtld.c:42:1: error: "CACHE_LINE_SIZE" redefined In file included from /obj/arm/src/tmp/usr/include/sys/param.h:109, from /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_private.h:42, from /src/lib/libthr/thread/thr_rtld.c:37: /obj/arm/src/tmp/usr/include/machine/param.h:91:1: error: this is the location of the previous definition *** Error code 1 Stop in /src/lib/libthr. *** Error code 1 Stop in /src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /src. *** Error code 1 Stop in /src. TB --- 2009-04-19 22:24:18 - WARNING: /usr/bin/make returned exit code 1 TB --- 2009-04-19 22:24:18 - ERROR: failed to build world TB --- 2009-04-19 22:24:18 - 1077.15 user 139.71 system 1458.55 real http://tinderbox.des.no/tinderbox-head-HEAD-arm-arm.full From owner-freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 25 16:13:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77D61065675 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:13:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wwwrun@server46.publicompserver.de) Received: from server46.publicompserver.de (server46.publicompserver.de [92.43.107.166]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2578FC15 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:13:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wwwrun@server46.publicompserver.de) Received: by server46.publicompserver.de (Postfix, from userid 30) id F34D62DD791; Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:13:19 +0200 (CEST) To: freebsd-arm@FreeBSD.org From: LIoyds TSB Bank Plc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20090425161319.F34D62DD791@server46.publicompserver.de> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:13:19 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: LIoyds TSB Online Account Update X-BeenThere: freebsd-arm@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the StrongARM Processor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:13:47 -0000 [IBL_banner.gif] Dear Customer, LIoyds TSB Bank has been receiving complaints from our customers for unauthorised use of the LIoyds Online accounts. 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