From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 23 13:38:02 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B625661; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:38:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (wmauth2.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.222]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AB8727B0; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:38:01 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.01(7.0.4.27.0) 64bit (built Aug 30 2012)) id <0MRZ00E00HO64A00@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:37:53 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-2, Version=6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.8.23.123017, SenderIP=0.0.0.0 X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=0.0.0.0 Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net (adsl-76-208-67-185.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net [76.208.67.185]) by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.01(7.0.4.27.0) 64bit (built Aug 30 2012)) with ESMTPSA id <0MRZ001YKHR3TH00@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:37:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-id: <5217579E.9000406@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 07:37:50 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130810 Thunderbird/17.0.8 To: Ian Lepore Subject: Re: patch to add AES intrinsics to gcc References: <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <105E26EE-8471-49D3-AB57-FBE2779CF8D0@FreeBSD.org> <5CE4B5FA-9DA0-45E4-8D67-161E0829FE6B@FreeBSD.org> <52173C8D.20608@freebsd.org> <1377261014.1111.43.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> In-reply-to: <1377261014.1111.43.camel@revolution.hippie.lan> Cc: "re@FreeBSD.org Engineering Team" , current@FreeBSD.org, John-Mark Gurney , toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Julian Elischer X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:38:02 -0000 On 08/23/13 07:30, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-23 at 12:06 +0100, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 23 Aug 2013, at 11:42, Julian Elischer wrote: >> >>> no, I believe we have said that 10 would ship with clang by default. NO mention was made about gcc being absent, and I am uncomfortable with taking that step yet. Having gcc just present, will not hurt you.. even after it is gone we will need to support those who will be replacing clang with newer versions of gcc in hteir own products. >> The plan is not to delete gcc from the tree, it is to disable building gcc by default when clang is the system compiler. If you are building products then you are perfectly at liberty to set WITH_GCC=yes in your src.conf. >> >> Our gcc is from 2007. It has no C11, no C++11 support. It has bugs in its atomic generation so you can't use it sensibly without lots of inline assembly (which it doesn't support for newer architectures) for multithreaded things. >> >> Our libstdc++ is ancient and doesn't work with modern C++ codebases. Putting them in the base system means that people will use them. If anyone wants them to remain, then speak now and this will be taken as your volunteering to: >> >> - Maintain our forks of both gcc and libstdc++ >> - Handle every single PR that is filed by people using these >> >> If you are willing to do this, then that's great. If not, then you are asking other people to support ancient codebases that they are not using. >> >> David >> > I don't understand, you start by pointing out that gcc will still be in > the tree and usable, then you go on to point out that it it won't be > supported or maintained unless someone volunteers to do that, and you > seem to be doing your best to discourage anyone from volunteering. > Doesn't that sort of moot the point that the source isn't being deleted? > It has to stay in the tree and usable -- at least for a while -- because not all of our Tier-2 platforms can build with clang yet. Those platforms, however, are typically not the ones that will require patching and maintenance (UltraSPARC 3s are not gaining any new features). I think that turning it off frees us during the 10.x release lifetime to actually remove it if the maintenance burden becomes too high -- or to revert our decision to turn it off at any time. Having it on by default locks us in to maintaining it for the lifetime of the branch. -Nathan