From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 15 14:54:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB1D106566B; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:54:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from argol.doit.wisc.edu (argol.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67278FC16; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:54:44 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LOD00C04QR8RZ00@smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:54:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net ([unknown] [76.210.76.224]) by smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LOD00BTVQR43700@smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu>; Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:54:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 09:54:39 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <201107151416.p6FEGQgQ018154@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> To: vadim_nuclight@mail.ru Message-id: <4E2054AF.2040701@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.210.76.224 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-10, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.7.15.143914, SenderIP=76.210.76.224 References: <201107092301.p69N1sUp019626__19145.5060652972$1310252550$gmane$org@svn.freebsd.org> <201107121004.p6CA4apj070450@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E1C4955.7010206@freebsd.org> <201107151416.p6FEGQgQ018154@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110704 Thunderbird/5.0 Cc: doceng@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Release Engineering Team Subject: Re: svn commit: r223897 - in head: release usr.sbin/bsdinstall/scripts X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2011 14:54:45 -0000 On 07/15/11 09:16, Vadim Goncharov wrote: > Hi Nathan Whitehorn! > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 08:17:09 -0500; Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > >>>> New Revision: 223897 >>>> URL: http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/223897 >>>> Log: >>>> Per request of the docs team, install docs as packages, instead of via >>>> the normal distfile mechanism. Thanks to Marc Fonvieille for the patch and >>>> for putting up with me taking entirely too long to commit this! >>> [...] >>>> "Network" "Networking configuration" \ >>>> "Services" "Set daemons to run on startup" \ >>>> "Time Zone" "Set system timezone" \ >>>> + "Handbook" "Install FreeBSD Handbook (requires network)" \ >>> [...] >>>> + --checklist "This menu will allow you to install the whole documentation set >>>> +from the FreeBSD Documentation Project: Handbook, FAQ and articles.\n\n >>>> +Please select the language versions you wish to install. At minimum, >>>> +you should install the English version, this is the original version >>>> +of the documentation.\n\n >>>> +NB: This requires a working, configured network connection." 0 0 0 \ >>> [...] >>>> + en "English Documentation (recommended)" ${DIST_DOC_EN:-on} \ >>> Umm, _configured network_ even for original English docs? In 8.2R those doc >>> packages for every lang were installed by sysinstall from CD (DVD1 actually), >>> as it should really be for new user - e.g. if network could be configured only >>> after reading Handbook, installing mpd5 from CD/DVD packages, and so on. >>> >>> Or am I missing something, and it will still be available on the disk? >>> >> The packages are really big (40 MB per), and there's only a small amount >> of space available on the disc. > But they were so a lot while: > > 7.4-RELEASE$ du -chd 0 /usr/share/doc/??_* > 832K /usr/share/doc/bn_BD.ISO10646-1 > 212K /usr/share/doc/da_DK.ISO8859-1 [...] > > And still a packed onto installation disks. Why was there space earlier? > And for it is wasted nowadays? The installation CDs are live CDs now, which means that they provide a functional fixit environment (ls, for instance) as well as letting people try out the operating system and expanding the range of system functionality available to the installer. This takes space. Some of that space is at the expense of other things, but I personally believe that trade-off is very much worth while. >> We *could* fit the English ones, but it >> badly complicates the release scripts to begin doing package generation, >> and Marc and I decided to do it this way. > How this can complicate release scripts, when packing release image and > generating packages are two logically separated steps? > > Anyway, the impact on user's perception of FreeBSD will be too bad to measure > it the amount of scirpts work. The system just can't live without beginner's > documentation, and I've already given one very practical example when this is > absolutely needed. > This was the decision of the documentation team, and as far as documentation is concerned, I will do whatever they ask with regard to the release scripts and the installer. Presumably, the release will also include a second CD (or DVD) full of packages, which will contain the full handbook. The complication for the release building scripts is that they generate finished ISOs, so anything that goes on the image must be available to the script. The scripts no longer build packages of any kind, and so building even one package substantially adds to their complication. I also personally think it's not required or even important to provide a way to install the handbook from disc1. The main documentation format for it is HTML, for which we package no readers on disc1. Additionally, I'm guessing that basically all of our users read it on www.freebsd.org these days instead of from /usr/local/share, which potentially makes it superfluous to package it at all. Further, without the handbook, how would a new user know to look for it at that path? -Nathan