From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 12 07:01:32 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6427106567D; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:01:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BB28FC1E; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:01:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n2C6wUw7071012; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:58:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:58:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20090312.005854.-1827346875.imp@bsdimp.com> To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20090310021926.GA51405@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20090309222705.GA49870@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20090310013810.GC22633@lonesome.com> <20090310021926.GA51405@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: src-committers@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, stas@FreeBSD.org, thompsa@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, linimon@lonesome.com Subject: Re: svn commit: r189594 - head X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:01:34 -0000 In message: <20090310021926.GA51405@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Steve Kargl writes: : On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 08:38:10PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: : > : > As mlaier has pointed out, -current has sharp edges. It's one of : > 3 choices open to you, the other two being -stable (which will still : > have ports regressions from time to time -- see xorg -- and sometimes : > even src regressions), and a release, which is the best we can do with : > respect to QA. If you can't deal with having your system out of : > commission on occasion, then -current isn't for you. : > : : Oh Please! : : I've run -current since it was called 386bsd+patchkit. I've : lived through the gcc 2.6.3 to gcc 3.x transition, the replacement : of devfs by phk with a new improved devfs, the problems with : libm and the changes to stdio.h among many others. The facts : remain that the USB2 transistion was poorly executed. Contrast USB2 : with Ed's new TTY layer. Ed gave a month or more headsup that a : new TTY layer was coming. He enumerated the drivers that were broken : and actively solicited people with the affected hardware for help. : He furthermore helped those people fix as many driver as possible : before committing the new TTY layer. As part of portmngr, you : know Ed also actively fixed many ports broken by the new TTY layer : and/or helped others fix the ports before the new layer became : standard. The fact that USB2 broke such a fundamentally important : port as Xorg suggests a lack of testing and planning by those who : rushed the USB2 transition. : : If you and others take off your rose colored glasses, you'll see : that the USB2 transition could have been handled better. Hopefully, : you're willing to learn from your mistakes. I don't think anybody thinks the usb2 transition was a paragon of virtue. However, it was handled better than many others. The usb2 stuff has been in transition into the tree for much longer than the tty later, and was, frankly, a much bigger change. I think that it was handled well enough, all things considered. The biggest problem with the usb2 transition is that nobody had the time to drive it into the tree. There was no one person that volunteered to do all the steps. We had several different volunteers do good work to make it happen, but there wasn't a single point of contact for it. Rather than complain about it, you should view future transitions as an opportunity to help out more... Warner