From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 4 16:24:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 727A4DB8 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 16:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pd0-f172.google.com (mail-pd0-f172.google.com [209.85.192.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E956273 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 2014 16:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p10so3527263pdj.31 for ; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=uSJHKpJ4H5BI6IBnthfUzmhbjiwF54zCJg46y2Agpl8=; b=IH7+u//Ng0Pvs2EYKopYcboTt5zkfxP/kpQdEGVWhy+PDbk2lMNdYaTDn9D193TRrb 0x5qEPcPWLIrbFLFnS7rJaGpvNpeXzjubLw4+iSsiw0QdGIWiAiMtiFrvblwn8mvq89Y KJWCar6SbXsfZkOi21yLygL4qY64Scwe0/zqzIiZgiYCPTvPMeGphnqWs/xSxEazLZ9p lhktNrY9RDlMmMrWsfnYAcCnppRQJqC4HA9mYzi3owrX7z/RwrXfcqG+EI5c86QRYLkl w66EFEvU8ViSHv6eSOEZHOApoGPaEljlJA0KBh0qVxNPjbiVr7spLIUadHQT8r9kA8Er 6mgA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkDtxnZAqk/rP0iauYGfro8yLusnI03xHElO+sWvUBOBLQBITgpP6GPRftb/dul7MlTxokV X-Received: by 10.66.162.74 with SMTP id xy10mr16164312pab.4.1396628652408; Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lgmac-josharris.corp.netflix.com (dc1-prod.netflix.com. [69.53.236.251]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hw8sm18734382pbc.62.2014.04.04.09.24.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) Subject: Re: svn commit: r264042 - in head: include lib/libc/gen lib/libc/include lib/libc/stdlib From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:24:09 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201404021607.s32G7mhw051355@svn.freebsd.org> <20140404115256.GA85137@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <8D6AF193-A5A3-4A28-A230-97A543395ACA@ixsystems.com> <2E0EC8CB-B3EE-4DB8-A33D-58FD2107F14D@FreeBSD.org> <6A02504F-5543-4F91-92F6-7B4FB9A34DC4@ixsystems.com> <152D73EE-DF9E-4757-B547-F1F22B12C824@FreeBSD.org> To: Jordan Hubbard X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , src-committers@freebsd.org, David Chisnall , svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:24:13 -0000 On Apr 4, 2014, at 7:44 AM, Jordan Hubbard wrote: >> For embedded uses, we'd also like to build FreeBSD with = vendor's-ugly-hacked-up-gcc-of-the-week. This is less of an issue now = for ARM, but MIPS vendors still hack up gcc in such a way that there's = no way that they can get their changes upstreamed and then ship the = result with their chips. >=20 > I see. That=92s pretty ugly indeed - is there a list of FreeBSD MIPS = folks doing this somewhere? I ask out of curiosity to know if there=92s = any collective attempt to chain them all together and insist that they = improve clang/MIPS to the point where they can stop doing ugly-ass gcc = ports. :) Good luck with that. There are some vendors that have good engagement = with FreeBSD and the community. There are others where the engagement is = sporadic at best. FreeBSD is a second tier item, and gcc works well = enough for Linux, so what=92s your problem? Also, it is more culturally = acceptable in Linux land to get your compiler from a vendor supplied = SDK. There=92s some motion to bring that support back to the original = (though the horrible term =93upstreaming=94), but that lags = significantly, and often results in a compiler that=92s not quite as = optimal as the vendor hacked ones, so those tend to live on and on. ARM has been good about making sure there=92s good, clean support for = their designs in gcc and clang. MIPS has been adrift for a while, so = hasn=92t been a driving force in that area (although to their credit, = some funding has happened). There are more MIPS variations out there = that have been evolving for a long time than with ARM, since most ARM = SoC vendors get the core from ARM and do little to nothing with the base = core, instead innovating on the peripherals. The long and the short of this means that we=92ll need external = toolchain support for FreeBSD, and not only external toolchain support, = but better compiler support in the base than we have. Right now we have = clang and gcc. At a minimum, we=92ll need to grow a version notion (as = switches differ), and may need different levels of external toolchain = support: just build the system with a pre-built (by magic!) toolchain = with sysroot, same without sysroot and the ability to bootstrap the = external toolchain... Warner