From owner-freebsd-isp Tue Jun 10 18:05:56 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA18062 for isp-outgoing; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mpeks.tomsk.su (mpeks.tomsk.su [193.124.182.17]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA18052 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:05:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mpeks.tomsk.su (8.6.11/8.6.9) with UUCP id JAA01615; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:02:23 +0800 Received: (from vas@localhost) by vas.tomsk.su (8.8.5/8.8.3) id IAA03060; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:25:24 +0800 (TSD) From: "Victor A. Sudakov" Message-Id: <199706110025.IAA03060@vas.tomsk.su> Subject: Re: Internet providers discouraging customers from unix To: jsuter@linus.intrastar.net (Jacob Suter) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:25:24 +0800 (TSD) Cc: isp@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jacob Suter" at "Jun 10, 97 05:57:18 pm" Organization: Tomsk Region Education Department X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jacob Suter wrote: > My point (as the support personel of intrastar.net)... morons shouldn't > use unix... If I have a user that calls and does something to the tune of > "I GOT MY (unix type) CD TODAY - PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO EXPLOIT SOMETHING > COOL!" I'm not going to be super-keen on telling this person what to > do.Unix IMHO is for elite people, not for lowly lamer people (ie - the guy I do not mean that you should spend your personal time on teaching neophytes. However, when an ISP refuses to tell the customer the parameters of the ppp connection he is offering for fear of this customer installing unix, or uses some other clever tricks with incompatibility etc. - this is an outrage. And another point. While unix experts keep telling that unix is for elite people while Bill Gates keeps saying that NT is for the masses, it is very easy to predict which OS is going to win. It is happening already. Everybody knows that unix is cool and everybody uses NT. If the unix people do not change their attitude, unix is doomed. And yet another note. Concerning the question of helping unix neophytes. Has the spirit of commerce penetrated so deeply into the internet world? Is the spirit of cooperation and mutual help gone forever? Maybe I shall pay when someone helps me with my problems on the Usenet or Fidonet, and charge money when I help someone? I have noticed an interesting thing (nothing personal) - the more skilled the admin is, the more willing he/she is to help others. And if the admin is a lamer himself - he hides behind this unix-is-not-for-lame-people attitude. In your case, if I were in your shoes, if such a neophyte as you have described above, calls you and asks "how to exploit something cool", I would advise him/her some good books on Unix and man pages ;-))) -- Victor Sudakov http://www.tomsk.su/r/persons/vas.htm