From owner-freebsd-questions Thu Aug 12 10:46:59 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (ha1.rdc2.occa.home.com [24.2.8.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466E214CF5 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:46:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rbettle@criterion-group.com) Received: from criterion-group.com ([24.5.44.161]) by mail.rdc2.occa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990812174547.YOAV7447.mail.rdc2.occa.home.com@criterion-group.com>; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:45:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37B3092F.3750243D@criterion-group.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:49:35 -0700 From: Roy Bettle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jon Passki , "Questions List FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: FW: Food for thought on NT security References: <000201bee4e7$c8d91200$6d07a8c0@fbsd.neicoltech.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4F422E2D3D83D8B9BD6670A2" Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4F422E2D3D83D8B9BD6670A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cut to the chase: NT Server has more security holes built into it's bastardized "kernel" than a wheel of swiss cheese. I've been involved with NT Server since beta versions of NT Server 3.0. The reason so few crackers go after UNIX/*BSD/Linux systems is because *this* community FIXES PROBLEMS. The Micro$haft community releases "patches" that mask the original problem with more layers of code ... which add more problems to be discovered by said "sexually frustrated pimple faced virus writers". You want to talk "population density"? More than 60% of all Internet servers - this equals more than a few - are running some variant of UNIX/*BSD/Linux. Microsoft would have you believe that NT Server is the remaining 40%, but unfortunately for "Billgatus of Borg", IBM is actually gaining on them (of all people). People don't crack UNIX/*BSD/Linux because it's too damn hard to do so, one, and two because said servers - since there are no fancy GUI windows and pretty "help" files - are managed by people who actually understand the boxes they're in charge of. In ths world of Micro$haft, you have these "mission-critical" NT boxes being managed by $35/hr MCSEs ... Must Consult Someone Experienced. Add to this the fact that Micro$haft crap crashes so frequently *all by itself* that it's hard to tell the difference between a virus attack and a simple Windoze attack without the frequent updates from Symantec's Anti-Virus Center. Just my $0.02. RAB Jon Passki wrote: > Ho hum, ain't this a perfect flame war starter? > > Jon Passki (Happy FBSD user) > NEI College of Technology > office:(612)782-7342 > fax:(612)782-7329 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Windows NT Discussion List [mailto:WINNT-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM] > On Behalf Of Joshua Burgner > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 8:20 PM > To: WINNT-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM > Subject: Re: Food for thought on NT security > > Just more food for thought: > > May I suggest that the shear imbalance between Windows and Unix in > hacking > activity implied in this article are largely due to the following > factors: > > 1) Most "sexually frustrated pimple faced virus writers" do not have > access > to Unix systems. They create and test their nefarious methods not on > elaborate networks, but on simple home systems/LAN's which run on the > most > readily available, widespread operating system available: Windows. > 2) Physiologically, the greater the population density, the greater > the > potential for the spread of disease. Technologically, the same is > true. > The high population density, the close logical proximity caused by the > great > number of Windows based PC's, also presents greater potential for the > spread > of a virus. > 3) The rich functionality of Windows presents more options to the > potential > hacker than that of UNIX. While the risk is higher, so are the > benefits. > You cannot have the functionality without the risk. > 4) Windows programming is easy to learn. Read the help files and all > of a > sudden, you are programming. This is a great benefit to Windows > programmers > of all types, both those with legitimate solutions, and those with > scurrilous intentions. UNIX programming, on the other hand... > > I am not making the claim that NT is the perfect operating system. > Neither > am I trying to slander UNIX. I am just stating that the imbalance in > hacking activity between the two operating systems is the logical > result of > the nature of these systems. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Aalberg [mailto:danialaa@CONAGRAMALT.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:31 PM > To: WINNT-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM > Subject: Re: Food for thought on NT security > > written by a UNIX bigot.... will they ever relent? > > This is just my opinion, but I've played with UNIX and it is a stable > and robust OS, but so is NT if on good hardware and installed correct > (just like UNIX). UNIX has good features (a lot if you are into > Egyptian hieroglyphics at the command line :) for the admin, but to > get > the everyday end user and administrator to work with it at a corporate > level, well, it'll never happen. The feature rich and intuitive OS > like NT/95 (or, dare I say OS/2) and flexibility of the applications > on > the GUI OS's compared to UNIX is worth ever bit of moron hacker > attempt > and sexually frustrated pimple faced virus writer out there. And I > tell > ya, If pimple boy put down his playboy and started writing viruses > against UNIX, the "great wall" would fall (published src code makes a > safe OS?) > > please no flames, hey, I have a UNIX box at my home. Up 100%, no > head, > telnet does it all. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Creamer, Mark [SMTP:CreamerM@CINTASMAIL.COM] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:40 AM > > To: WINNT-L@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM > > Subject: Food for thought on NT security > > > > http://www.oreilly.com/news/hacked_0899.html > > > > Mark Creamer > > LAN Systems Administrator > > Cintas Corporation - "The Uniform People" > > 6800 Cintas Boulevard > > Mason, OH 45040 > > (513) 459-1200 > > mark.creamer@cintasmail.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ---- > > The WINNT-L list is hosted on a Windows NT(TM) machine running > L-Soft > > international's LISTSERV(R) software. For subscription/signoff info > > and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/winnt-l.html > . > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > The WINNT-L list is hosted on a Windows NT(TM) machine running L-Soft > international's LISTSERV(R) software. For subscription/signoff info > and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/winnt-l.html . > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > The WINNT-L list is hosted on a Windows NT(TM) machine running L-Soft > international's LISTSERV(R) software. For subscription/signoff info > and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/winnt-l.html . > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message --------------4F422E2D3D83D8B9BD6670A2 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="rbettle.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roy Bettle Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rbettle.vcf" begin:vcard n:Bettle;Roy tel;work:(949) 452-1203 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.criterion-group.com org:Criterion Group, Inc. version:2.1 email;internet:rbettle@criterion-group.com title:President note:Businesses that depend on computers, depend on us. adr;quoted-printable:;;26895 Aliso Creek Road=0D=0ASuite B404;Aliso Viejo;CA;92656;USA fn:Bettle, Roy end:vcard --------------4F422E2D3D83D8B9BD6670A2-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message