From owner-freebsd-security Sat Jan 1 20:57:33 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Received: from alcove.wittsend.com (alcove.wittsend.com [130.205.0.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C68114F83; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 20:57:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mhw@alcove.wittsend.com) Received: (from mhw@localhost) by alcove.wittsend.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16516; Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:57:21 -0500 Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 23:57:21 -0500 From: "Michael H. Warfield" To: Brian Fundakowski Feldman Cc: Dug Song , security@FreeBSD.org, openssh-unix-dev@mindrot.org Subject: Re: OpenSSH protocol 1.6 proposal Message-ID: <20000101235721.A15256@alcove.wittsend.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from green@FreeBSD.org on Sat, Jan 01, 2000 at 04:37:07PM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Jan 01, 2000 at 04:37:07PM -0500, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote: > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Dug Song wrote: > > On Sat, 1 Jan 2000, Brian Fundakowski Feldman wrote: > > > http://www.FreeBSD.org/~green/openssh.SHA-1.patch > > > MD5 (public_html/openssh.SHA-1.patch) = e21a896f59474a31ab3b9103acf44c35 > > > P.S.: I realize other people may have proposed something very similar. > > > Indeed, markus's proposal may be something like this. However, > > > since it's impossible to work with anyone who is Theo, or > > > "under" Theo, it's unrealistic to work with that. Hence the > > > reason we need to make a code fork of OpenSSH as soon as > > > convenient. > > i'm sorry you feel this way. so far, the OpenBSD OpenSSH developers and > > the Linux/Solaris/etc. OpenSSH developers led by Damien Miller have been > > getting along just fine. we hereby cordially invite you to join the party! > > http://violet.ibs.com.au/openssh/list.html > > best wishes for the new year. > Have you, personally, ever tried to talk to Theo? I know I'm not the > only one who has tried, and only gotten flames in response. I don't As a matter of fact I have. Theo and I shared more than a few beers down in San Antonio at the Usenix Security Symposium a while back. I found that he was just as opinionated and arrogant as I was. I quickly figured out that one did NOT come to debate one's position with Theo unless one was fully prepared to defend one's position. I like that man! I don't agree with him on all points and we may send some people scrambling for 911 when we debate, but I like him. He knows his position and he IS prepared to debate it and defend it. Anyone who attempts to argue with him who is not prepared it engaging in a self inflicted injury. I don't know and don't really care if he remembers our debates (hell, it was 2 in the morning). He has my respect, whether I agree with him or not. > think someone like that should be the head of any project, and it's > truly impossible to work with such a... person. Excuse "my french" at this point. No... He is easy to work with... I know plently of assholes who don't know jack shit about what they are managing, but the are "the manager". THEY are impossible to work with. I have watched at least one totally incompetant moron, whose sole goal in life is to be a role model for a dilbert comic strip, totally destroy a corporate position with regard to platforms and support. This man micromanaged by "buzzword". Buzzword bingo is no fun when everyone goes balistic five minutes into one of his monologs. I would work under Theo in a heart beat, even if they had to call the goon squad to keep us from throtalling each other. Theo knows his shit and is prepared to defend his position. Anyone who argues with him and is NOT prepared to do this same gets what they deserve. > Now, if you come to tell me there's a way to actually discuss things > with ration human beings, not having to deal with flaming egomaniacs, > I am all ears! I would love to have more people to work with, where > the people could actually remain civil. I had this with Theo. If you are prepared to defend your ideas and are prepared to LISTEN to his, you CAN have a productive debate with him. You will not win all the arguements. You may even win a few points with him. You may even part as friends (I hope I can claim that). He may concede some points and learn some things and so may you. You DON'T engage him in debate to convince him of something. You engage him in debate expecting that you BOTH MIGHT learn something. And you will... > > -d. > > --- > > http://www.monkey.org/~dugsong/ > -- > Brian Fundakowski Feldman \ FreeBSD: The Power to Serve! / > green@FreeBSD.org `------------------------------' Mike -- Michael H. Warfield | (770) 985-6132 | mhw@WittsEnd.com (The Mad Wizard) | (770) 331-2437 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message