From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 01:52:57 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D267816A41F for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:52:57 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from gromit.dlib.vt.edu (gromit.dlib.vt.edu [128.173.49.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA77D43D45 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:52:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (pool-141-152-80-192.roa.east.verizon.net [141.152.80.192]) by gromit.dlib.vt.edu (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j7U1qrcp021538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:52:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (localhost.Chelsea-Ct.Org [127.0.0.1]) by zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j7U1qljB029428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:52:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: (from paul@localhost) by zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j7U1qkow029427; Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:52:46 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) From: Paul Mather To: Matthias Buelow In-Reply-To: <20050830011106.GF1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> References: <20050829120415.GA1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> <200508291836.j7TIaVEk013147@gw.catspoiler.org> <20050829185933.GB1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> <431362ED.9030800@mac.com> <20050829204714.GC1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> <43137AFB.9060304@mac.com> <20050829215613.GD1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> <431390A0.5080007@mac.com> <20050830002051.GE1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> <4313AB8D.4010807@paradise.net.nz> <20050830011106.GF1462@drjekyll.mkbuelow.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:52:45 -0400 Message-Id: <1125366765.29186.17.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, Mark Kirkwood Subject: Re: Sysinstall automatic filesystem size generation. X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 01:52:57 -0000 On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 03:11 +0200, Matthias Buelow wrote: > BTW., when have you last seen a broken NTFS? While > I don't do Windows much, I have had quite a few crashes on Windows > (2000, XP) over the years on various machines, and I always asked > myself how it could be that the system is up almost immediately > (probably due to log replay) with no discernible filesystem damage. > Windows (NT) has been doing the write barrier flush tricks (disabling-/ > reenabling the cache for flushing it) for longer than Linux and I > would think that this contributes to the fault resilience of NTFS. > Not that I would imply that NTFS can't be corrupted, of course. Funny you should mention it, but the last time I saw a broken NTFS was back in July. It was a friend's Windows 2000 system. The net effect was that the system would not boot fully; was not responsive to the "repair" option; and wouldn't allow the recovery console to start. In the end, a wipe and reinstall was necessary. Oddly enough, trying to mount the NTFS file system via a Knoppix CD before resorting to that yielded complaints about the journal being corrupted. I guess I must be lucky because I've never yet had a corrupted file system with softupdates enabled due to power loss or panic under FreeBSD (though I've experienced plenty of power losses due to the flaky power here and panics due to tracking CURRENT on my desktop system:). By reading your regular dire warnings on the subject, my experience must differ greatly from yours. ;-) BTW, if you consider softupdates fundamentally broken wrt data integrity, why don't you post your concerns to -current or -hackers, say? Surely the developers to address the problem are more likely to be found reading there? Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa