From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 19 16:40:52 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6A716A417 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:40:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@gritton.org) Received: from gritton.org (gritton.org [161.58.222.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5160F13C44B for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:40:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@gritton.org) Received: from [10.20.12.66] (fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net [198.65.168.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by gritton.org (8.13.6.20060614/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l9JGLwUl061782; Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4718D9A1.8040200@gritton.org> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:21:53 -0600 From: James Gritton User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060512) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <470E5BFB.4050903@elischer.org> <200710172216.l9HMGhbd067251@apollo.backplane.com> <200710181359.46720.qpadla@gmail.com> <4717F983.5060707@elischer.org> In-Reply-To: <4717F983.5060707@elischer.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Julian Elischer Subject: Re: jail/vimage level virtualisation requirements. X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:40:52 -0000 Julian Elischer wrote: > I don't want to discuss virtualisation that duplicates the entire kernel, > other than the single question "Should we drop support for jails and > vimage > style virtualisation in favour of "Userland linux/dragonfly/freeBSD" > or Xen or {your favourite virtualmachine}. That's an easy one - a big "no". Broader virtualization technologies are fine, but they serve a different need and shouldn't take over what jails (especially with certain extensions) offer. Namely: ... > IF we decide to keep teh jail/super-chroot/vimage support, then > what do we want to see out of it? Light weight. The main thing I want to see is being able to partition the jail into a separate virtual environment without bloating the kernel, or adding new kernels. To be able to offer a complete FreeBSD userspace environment largely indistinguishable from the unjailed, with the benefit of keeping different jails from interfering with other as much as possible. I'm not interested (for the purposes of this topic) in acting like another OS, or acting like you're on some kind of different hardware. Basically, I'm looking for everything Matt Dillon said we shouldn't bother to do at this level. - Jamie