From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 17:30:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9485A1065678 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:30:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A60B8FC16 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:30:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyS98-0006AU-U6>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:30:46 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyS98-0000M3-QC>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:30:46 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5D1E46.7000908@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:30:46 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Brennan References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <4E5CAD9E.6050903@rktmb.org> <4E5CB49F.50806@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5CBC14.4080908@rktmb.org> <4E5CF1ED.2030504@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5CF417.5080503@rktmb.org> <4E5D031E.2000602@xaerolimit.net> In-Reply-To: <4E5D031E.2000602@xaerolimit.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:30:48 -0000 On 08/30/11 17:34, Chris Brennan wrote: > On 8/30/2011 10:30 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: >> On 08/30/2011 05:21 PM, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>> On 08/30/11 12:31, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: >>>> On 08/30/2011 12:59 PM, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>>> But I also express my opinion that updating such a document should be >>>> done by a third party. >>> I slightly disagree with that. >> No problem >> >>> Who else than the developer/core team >>> members know better about what's >>> in and what's not in the FreeBSD box? >> So, for a features listing, it's OK. I really agree on turning it into a >> feature list. >> >> For a _comparison_, I think it's up to somewhere else: >> To really compare, it's mandatory to really now the multiple compared >> items. Who cares about the latest MS Windows internals (deep networking >> capability, filesystem tricks, kernel scheduler specs,...) in here? >> >> I migh be wrong, but IMHO "core devs" and "power users" wont spend time >> to deeply investigate on the other systems. >> >> Again, just an opinion. >> > As a casual user and a staunch supporter, I would strongly disagree with > you here. if a third party wiki (even Wikipedia) contained such a > comparison, I would question it's validity moreso then if the project > itself were to maintain a release-based comprison of currently supported > branches (7.x, 8.x, 9.x*, etc) vs a selected choice of mainstream Linux > Distro's, OS X Server and Windows 2003/2008. > > But this comparison can't be trivial, it has to be genuine, authentic, > (peer reviewed across the board if possible), backed up by fact (links > back to other reputable sources). In short, it's a monumental > undertaking and may require the work of many dedicated people > (new/active marketing team?) It should very much be done by FreeBSD as a > project and should be taken seriously as a marketing technique, the > object is to show people *WHY* FreeBSD is a sound (and valid) choice > against the competition, we can't just claim we're better because we > know we are, we have to provide a convincing argument that is true and > honest fact. > FreeBSd hasn't "the market" is may have had in the past and the lack of developer is always brought up when it comes to the lack of features. So you would found "a marketing team"? Professionals? Who cares for the costs in money and manpower for that? This is why things get "drown" like a young puppy dog. There are some essential facts the different operating systems differ in. Even the *BSD UNIX systems do have those and it could be a nice thing to gather some aspects together and compare them. It would be hard to make any ground against Linux these days - this is what I gathered in the past two years desperately looking for a support of GPGPU vailability in *BSD. This is only one small aspect, but I guess there are more. On the other hand, I'm not deep inside the system and if there is no source of a half-way trustworthy webpage telling a story about different aspects of development and "decently written terms" of how FreeBSD is a bit better than others ...what can I propagade to my colleagues and others? Well, everything new and everything "unprofessional" but true is much better than the old "smiley"-infested webpage. Think of people starting with an OpenSource OS or starting being courios about the *BSDs. I would be scared away by such an arrogant looking page! New people do not even know that the FreeBSD was once a backend of many big companies due to its rockstable network stack. Roumors said, that even Microsofts MSN was backed up by FreeBSD. But today, this doesn't count anymore. Operating systems are workhorses, not pieces of art keeping and replenish their value. The art of programming is its clarity cleaness and this is not aproved by the developer himself, this is a attribute which is earned by those who has to administer and develop for such an OS. And I guess compared to Linux, there are big diffrences. Since I have to administer my CUDA/TESLA cluster (since FreeBSD's lack of support for that we needed to switch over), I'm scared about the mess the distributions celebrate. In my opinion, Linux is "scripted to death" in many aspects and without the distro's management tools, there is no straight passage to the problem's core anymore! That is maybe a foggy sight of things since I'm with BSD systems since my first private DECstation 5000/133 with a good old 4.3 RENO BSD and I havn't already understood the Linux' philosophy. But there must also be a reason why network-responsible administrators favour BSD based firewalls but have to workd with Linux due to the contracts of the companies ...