From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:42:02 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E0A9CD1DC for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@me.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A6B12DA for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@me.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5204E9CD1DB; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DD19CD1DA for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@me.com) Received: from mr11p00im-asmtp003.me.com (mr11p00im-asmtp003.me.com [17.110.69.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09CF912D9; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@me.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Received: from akita.hsd1.ca.comcast.net (c-73-162-13-215.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.162.13.215]) by mr11p00im-asmtp003.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Mar 31 2015)) with ESMTPSA id <0NUT00KBIVLRBT20@mr11p00im-asmtp003.me.com>; Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:41:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2015-09-17_06:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 kscore.is_bulkscore=5.55111512312578e-17 compositescore=0.981217492118854 phishscore=0 kscore.is_spamscore=0 rbsscore=0.981217492118854 recipient_to_sender_totalscore=0 spamscore=0 urlsuspectscore=0.981217492118854 adultscore=0 kscore.compositescore=0 circleOfTrustscore=0 suspectscore=0 recipient_domain_to_sender_totalscore=0 bulkscore=0 recipient_domain_to_sender_domain_totalscore=0 recipient_to_sender_domain_totalscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1412110000 definitions=main-1509170219 Message-id: <1442504510.1862.6.camel@me.com> Subject: Re: Intel Haswell support - Any updates? From: Rui Paulo To: David Chisnall , "Lundberg, Johannes" Cc: Adam McDougall , "current@freebsd.org" Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:41:50 -0700 In-reply-to: References: <55FA7324.5010603@icloud.com> <09A515F2-44BA-4DF0-9792-D4C56EEB9D7C@FreeBSD.org> <114F22EF-61E3-4D75-84FB-9D6E3FBCB8F3@FreeBSD.org> <20150917131333.GN1247@egr.msu.edu> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.16.5-1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:42:02 -0000 On Thu, 2015-09-17 at 14:47 +0100, David Chisnall wrote: > On 17 Sep 2015, at 14:41, Lundberg, Johannes < > johannes@brilliantservice.co.jp> wrote: > > > > However, the problem now is not the driver right? But the whole > > graphics > > stack which has to be rewritten to work with new generation > > graphics like > > KMS, Wayland, etc? > > There are lots of different components here that you’re conflating: > > - KMS is the thing that allows the kernel to be responsible for > setting the graphics mode, restoring it on context switches and so > on. This has worked on FreeBSD for a while. > > - GEM / TTM are memory managers, they allow the kernel to manage > memory (video memory and main memory allocated to the GPU) for GPU > -using drivers. These work on FreeBSD, but the supported version > lags Linux slightly. This is the focus of current work. > > - The i915 driver. This is the graphics driver for Intel GPUs. It > uses KMS and the memory manager functionality. Importing a newer > version will be possible once the underlying parts are done. > > - Wayland is a userland application that sits on top of DRI drivers, > just as X.org does. Most of the things Wayland needs that don’t work > on FreeBSD are not graphics related. > > The problem is that the developers *also* conflate them. Upstream > i915 developers will add KPIs to GEM / TTM / KMS to make their lives > easier and these features need bringing across to FreeBSD. Let's also not forget the following statistics: - The DRM / GEM / TTM code is around 50k lines of code; - The i915 driver is 120k lines of code; - The radeon driver is 212k lines of code. Even with a good linux compatibility layer, it's still a big project that requires a lot of work. If we don't convince the vendors to work on FreeBSD, I fear this problem will never be solved. P.S.: the total linux drm stack is around 600k LOC. -- Rui Paulo