From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Dec 13 21:30:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043CF106567B for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 172-17-198-245.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7037616317A; Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:29:02 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4EE7C39E.6040403@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 13:29:02 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111110 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <201112111414.pBBEELL6064329@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201112111414.pBBEELL6064329@fire.js.berklix.net> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CVS removal from the base X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:30:06 -0000 On 12/11/2011 06:14, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Doug Barton wrote: >> On 12/02/2011 04:35, Adrian Chadd wrote: >>> I think you're missing the point a little. >>> >>> The point is, you have to keep in mind how comfortable people feel >>> about things, and progress sometimes makes people uncomfortable. I >>> think you should leave these changes bake for a while and let people >>> get comfortable with the changing status quo. >> >> The fact that we have so many people who are radically change-averse, no >> matter how rational the change; is a bug, not a feature. >> >> This particular bug is complicated dramatically by the fact that the >> majority view seems to lean heavily towards "If I use it, it must be the >> default and/or in the base" rather than seeing ports as part of the >> overall operating SYSTEM. > > BSD is more conservative. More value given to stability of availability > of interfaces & tools etc, Having things in ports doesn't make them less available. :) > More Long term professionals. I don't know what this means. > Doug's > attempting to force working FreeBSD ports such as procmail to be > discarded is deplorable. Um, I had nothing to say about procmail. In fact, I use procmail, and would not want to see it removed. > Doug should stop coercing FreeBSD toward > a Linux model, & move himself to Linux. I actually do use Linux sometimes. In many ways it is a far superior desktop. That said, I am certainly *not* trying to turn FreeBSD into another Linux distro. What I am trying to do is to see what we can learn from how Linux does things, and apply those ideas here when they are useful. Just because Linux does it, doesn't mean it's wrong. :) I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. Decisions that were made 20 years ago about what should and should not be included in the Berkeley Software Distribution, while valid at the time, may not be valid any longer because things have changed since then. Just to take one obvious example, when these decisions were being made it was necessary to distribute a full system, including the 3rd party stuff, all in one go because the software was being distributed on magnetic tape. Doug -- [^L] Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/