From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 11 19:16:08 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B31716A415 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:16:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jeff.rollin@gmail.com) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.228]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC8143D6A for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:16:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from jeff.rollin@gmail.com) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 68so391522wri for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:16:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=eAkor4y1FvApV1tJBdzQTT2yuSePiJ45AStMSKORFBm7KMvPbMTu2edR0S/k03R44Thdi8lJRptyzXVMlroPtqIveFTTP+bqYo5SLDWFGUt+DW5ILY4jooUZEEDdfq0nPyi0HnqSnFC2FZKFGJm3RTqR3eTkE67C61myytrGffA= Received: by 10.90.105.20 with SMTP id d20mr1903436agc; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.98.12 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8a0028260609111215y6c3cdd82tda51f1e1d333ddd3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:15:59 +0100 From: "Jeff Rollin" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000001c6d520$292f6700$0c01a8c0@DELL8400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Newbie Experience X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:16:08 -0000 On 11/09/06, jan gestre wrote: > > On 9/11/06, Bob Walker wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I have always wanted to better understand Unix, and so I finally made > the > > decision to switch some of my office PCs over to either a Unix or Linux > > system. With office suites like OpenOffice, I felt that I would be able > to > > transition away from Windows with minimal disruption to my business. So, > I > > downloaded the .iso images from FreeBSD, Suse, and Fedora. I initially > > favored FreeBSD, since it seemed to have the closest lineage to "pure" > > Unix, > > and that was important to me, but after many, many attempts to install > > both > > the OS and Gnome desktop environment, I threw up my hands. > > > > > > > > In brief, the installation process is just awful. After multiple > attempts > > on > > an admittedly older machine (Pentium II 266Mhz, 256KB ram, 30GB hard > > drive, > > S3 Virge graphics card), I was able to get the FreeBSD OS installed, but > > could not configure Gnome or KDE properly. The documentation is sketchy > at > > best. I had to learn about X11, Xorg, XFree86, and all of the gory > history > > of X before I could even begin to use ee and know to edit the > /etc/rc.conf > > file. The installation process did not recognize my graphics card or > > Ethernet connection, and all I could get was a crude 600x800 display. > And > > DesktopBSD was even worse. > > > > > > > > I then repartitioned my drive and sequentially installed Fedora Core 5 > amd > > then Suse 10.1. Both were EASY to install, Fedora in particular > recognized > > all of my peripherals, and I was up and running with it in about two > > hours. > > Conversely, FreeBSD took me multiple days and has still left me > > bewildered. > > Needless to say, I was very disappointed. I feel that FreeBSD will never > > achieve broader acceptance (even with momentum building for alternative > > OS) > > among people with modest technical proficiency and fairly simple > > requirements (i.e., spreadsheets, word processing, presentations, > email). > > FreeBSD has an awful "out of the box" experience. It's too bad, because > I > > think FreeBSD is probably a better OS, but I'll never really know. > > Regards, > > > > > too bad, you experienced that, the FreeBSD sysinstall is not that really > hard, it may seem daunting at first because of its text mode but it is > very > straight forward, i guess you have to read the handbook over and over > again > to fully comprehend the things you missed why things like X is not > working, > it will also help if you will include the error messages as to why you > can't > run/install gnome or kde. imo you missed some dependencies that's why > you're > having a hard time. Discussions like these leave me lost for words... The last time I had trouble with a FreeBSD install, it was because sysinstall neglected to install a kernel! (I remember the days when people used to complain about (n)curses-based Linux installs... Fire up Windows XP's setup.exe, and what do you get?!) Which is to say, apart from the occasional bug I really don't see what the problem is with sysinstall. To me it's the best thing this side of YaST for getting (certain areas of) system administration done. (Yeah, I know a lot of you probably hate YaST in particular or Linux in general... whilst I like FreeBSD, I have to say that it really suffers in comparison to Linux in the area of driver support. I know that's not all the FBSD developers' fault, but when you're sat there fighting with a piece of recalcitrant hardware, surprisingly enough assigning blame to where it belongs is often the last thing on your mind!) It's really hard to make a cock-up with FreeBSD installation - apart from not knowing how much space to set aside! There really ought to be something about that in the manual.... This is going off-topic quite a bit, but the same could be said for NetBSD (not, in my experience, with OpenBSD.) They're really hard to cock-up if you just *follow* *the darned* *instructions*. After coming away from Windows, it's actually nice to have some decent documentation! Jeff Rollin